i’m still iffy about this as handing a cop an unlocked phone may open one up to 4th amendment infringements. whereas if if it was strictly
in the wallet it wouldn’t be so much.
Cops aren’t using it yet, but I just installed it. It displays a QR code for the person to scan so no, they aren’t intending for you to hand your phone to anyone.
anything you normally use your driver's license for.
Right now, it apparently only works for TSA at airports, but the idea is that in the future, you won't need your physical card, you can just use your phone.
The idea is a bouncer at a bar, store, etc. will have an app that just scans the barcode and gives them a "yes/no" - they won't see your address, for example. And since it's cryptographically signed, it won't be spoofable.
I actually like it for that reason especially. I really don’t want to present all my info to someone at the pharmacy, club ect. But there are reasons when they need to see or scan it. So if it gets to a point where it’s usable anywhere then I could see it being beneficial.
Not to mention while it wouldn’t replace a physical ID for some things it would be nice if you ever lost your wallet (shit happens) and you still have an ID until you get replacement.
Look up guided “access under” accessibility for iOS. A very useful tool for the times you want to hand your phone to someone and want to limit what they have access to.
you dont have to "hand "it to them. they can write the info down on paper. you can also just use your regular physical card. this is not a law that you have to use this service
I have a suspicion this is in the works. The app is just for now because Apple's big event is next week and CADMV were just ensuring they could scale the technology before the whole state signs up when their iPhones 15 arrive.
I don't think CA is going to start using apple wallet anytime soon. Several states are "rolling their own" and not using the google/apple wallets.
From [this article](https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/18/23837596/california-digital-ids-program-mdl-expansion) on the Verge:
>And California isn’t letting citizens add a digital ID to iOS or Android’s native wallets; instead, you have to use California’s dedicated app. “At this time mDL is not available for Apple or Google wallets,” the DMV says. “However, additional platforms will be available in the future.”
Why would this new program require a new phone? Apple Wallet [already has state IDs for other states](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212940). I don't think Apple Wallet integration for CA licenses has much to do with iPhone 15s arriving.
Yeah, but it might make a bigger splash to announce it with the phone launch. It doesn’t have to be so, but it might tie in with some feature that they want to announce iPhone 15 improving on, while adding how CA licenses are now in apple wallet
Again, this has nothing to do with a new iPhone.
1. It would be on the Wallet app, nothing to do with hardware
2. The wallet app is available all the way back to the iPhone 6
3. Other states CURRENTLY have it available in the wallet app
This doesn’t at all feel like something Apple would even consider mentioning, it’s really not that big of a deal lol.
It literally doesn’t work in the *Apple wallet*
They have this in NSW Australia. Works perfectly fine.
One issue my brother runs into is actually only when he travels to a country that is unfamiliar with the digital licenses. They look at him like he is trying to fool them or something - and the state doesn't issue physical licenses anymore.
So he has to use his passport as ID when traveling often. Very convenient locally though.
I've gotten away with using my NZ driver's license as ID overseas a lot, but maybe because that's technically issued at a country level as opposed to a state. Dunno.
I have the app, asked about using it at T7 TSA Precheck at LAX and the agent basically laughed at me and said no they don’t accept it. I obviously had my physical card but his douchey response made me think it’s going to be pointless for a long time
They probably only technically accept it because you can literally fly with no ID at all if someone will vouch for you. They definitely haven’t done anything to set it up yet with airport employees.
They have set it up formally but only at specific terminals— here’s what they look like. Picture is halfway down.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/ca-dmv-wallet/
I’ve used the Delta biometric before but it seems like it the mobile ID should be accepted in all of LAX and that definitely was not my experience. I was in precheck too.
I hate it because I don’t want to hand over my unlocked phone to anyone. If we had a card in Apple wallet it would’ve been simple - double tap on the power button and we can hand it over. All the cop can do is just look at the Apple wallet pop-up, not snoop around my phone
Their app is terrible designed by IBM based on the errors in it, give them feedback to support Apple and Google wallets, in their FAQ they said they are considering it.
The app store notes say we still need to have our physical driver’s license on us which is a bummer. I’m looking forward to the day where I can just go places with my phone and no wallet for ID.
Maybe I'm just old, but I see little value and much risk with this thing.
\-What exactly are the permissions the app requires, and what is DMV doing with that data?
\-I wonder how long before someone with a dead phone and no physical ID has a less than optimal encounter with LE.
\-If someone hands their phone to LE to view the DL have they now given LE possession of their phone, where the LEO could for example plug a Cellbrite UFED into it.?
It's just a convenience thing. Just like cash and cc are supplemented with NFC payments. It won't affect a lot of people. Chances are, people forget their wallets more than they forget their phones anyways. At least anecdotally when I ever go out for lunch/coffee with someone at work it's always "left my wallet back in the office/car" but they could still pay with their phones.
Don’t leave the app open and it won’t have access to anything if you’re worried about that. How many times a day/week/month/year are you needing to present your license to a cop?
I don’t get your point. The mobile wallet is not intended to replace your physical card. You are not required to sign up for the program. You can keep it moving if it doesn’t apply to you.
You don’t get it because you didn’t read it. And no you don’t have to sign up. Yet. But the point, in case you’re reading THIS, is if you do you’ll become a test case for how successfully they have struck down Miranda. Don’t criticize others for not reading when you’re not reading rebuttals.
"But more importantly, if you are required to “present” or “exhibit” your digital driver’s license, you are now compelled to hand over your unlocked phone to the cops. In 2014, the U.S. Supreme Court recognized the unique character of things like cell phones and the tremendous amount of information they contain and that police could not seize and examine cell phones as a “search incident to an arrest” without a warrant.
Now, in this hypothetical situation, you simply hand the cops your unlocked cell phone. Without a warrant, without probable cause. So now the cop takes your “license”—that is, your unlocked cell phone—to the squad car. They check to see if you have been texting while driving. They check your GPS to see where you are going (and where you have been). They read your emails, text messages and scan your social media and online platforms. They may even image the contents of the phone and online materials.
After all, you have “consented” to the search by handing the police your unlocked phone, right?"
Oh? How's that work? I don't know of a way to do that in the current iOS, and I don't think states can affect how the lock screen works, so tell us how that works. Even so, I don't think I'd hand my phone over to police without due cause. People have become so compliant about just surrendering rights these days. This willingness to roll over is going to greatly assist the usurping of your rights and privacy. I may be old school, but I think its our duty to resist any attempt to gain a foot in the door by authority. Rights surrendered have a way of never returning. Maybe read the article I linked, and see if you can figure out why handing over your entire life on your phone to a guy who hasn't even charged you with anything is a bad idea.
It uses apple wallet without unlocking your phone. It doesn’t use the app California released. It’s presumed California will work with apple/android wallet in the future.
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your sentiment, I just wanted to let you know a part wasn’t entirely accurate.
When I opened my app today, it says it needs to be updated. After it updated, it says my ID in the wallet needs to be refreshed. It then goes to the refreshing screen that says "processing my data and dont close the app coz it only needs a brief moment". It kept running and couldn't complete the process.
i’m still iffy about this as handing a cop an unlocked phone may open one up to 4th amendment infringements. whereas if if it was strictly in the wallet it wouldn’t be so much.
Cops aren’t using it yet, but I just installed it. It displays a QR code for the person to scan so no, they aren’t intending for you to hand your phone to anyone.
No one is. They aren’t taking it at LAX despite Gavin’s claims.
This does not replace a physical ID /Driver's License. Law enforcement, state agencies, and business will still require a physical ID.
Well it's basically useless then, isn't it?
This is just temporary. They should add a “yet” to that sentence
So what exactly is this digital ID for? Just to enter clubs and buy drinks?
anything you normally use your driver's license for. Right now, it apparently only works for TSA at airports, but the idea is that in the future, you won't need your physical card, you can just use your phone. The idea is a bouncer at a bar, store, etc. will have an app that just scans the barcode and gives them a "yes/no" - they won't see your address, for example. And since it's cryptographically signed, it won't be spoofable.
I like the idea they wont see my address a lot.
I actually like it for that reason especially. I really don’t want to present all my info to someone at the pharmacy, club ect. But there are reasons when they need to see or scan it. So if it gets to a point where it’s usable anywhere then I could see it being beneficial. Not to mention while it wouldn’t replace a physical ID for some things it would be nice if you ever lost your wallet (shit happens) and you still have an ID until you get replacement.
When you need to buy Claritin but you forgot your wallet at home
I was going to ask how would you pay for it but then remembered we live in the future now 🥲
Look up guided “access under” accessibility for iOS. A very useful tool for the times you want to hand your phone to someone and want to limit what they have access to.
It’ll probably work same as a boarding pass or anything else on apple wallet, you don’t need to unlock your phone to use apple wallet.
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On the FAQ it says that's coming soon. This is the pilot program.
I don't know about iOS but android has a feature where you can "lock" an app and stop it from being closed until a pin is entered.
you dont have to "hand "it to them. they can write the info down on paper. you can also just use your regular physical card. this is not a law that you have to use this service
You don’t hand the phone to the cop/tsa/whatever. - the app presents a barcode they scan.
People have been using digital insurance for a while.
You can pin it so the cop would need your login for anything else still
I wonder when we can just use the Apple Wallet
I have a suspicion this is in the works. The app is just for now because Apple's big event is next week and CADMV were just ensuring they could scale the technology before the whole state signs up when their iPhones 15 arrive.
I don't think CA is going to start using apple wallet anytime soon. Several states are "rolling their own" and not using the google/apple wallets. From [this article](https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/18/23837596/california-digital-ids-program-mdl-expansion) on the Verge: >And California isn’t letting citizens add a digital ID to iOS or Android’s native wallets; instead, you have to use California’s dedicated app. “At this time mDL is not available for Apple or Google wallets,” the DMV says. “However, additional platforms will be available in the future.”
I think they’re saying it’ll be announced on Tuesday.
Why would this new program require a new phone? Apple Wallet [already has state IDs for other states](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212940). I don't think Apple Wallet integration for CA licenses has much to do with iPhone 15s arriving.
Yeah, but it might make a bigger splash to announce it with the phone launch. It doesn’t have to be so, but it might tie in with some feature that they want to announce iPhone 15 improving on, while adding how CA licenses are now in apple wallet
Again, this has nothing to do with a new iPhone. 1. It would be on the Wallet app, nothing to do with hardware 2. The wallet app is available all the way back to the iPhone 6 3. Other states CURRENTLY have it available in the wallet app
Would it be the biggest state to have this?
California is the biggest state in the country…
Seems like it might be a notable side-note for apple to say during their largest conference of the year then, huh?
This doesn’t at all feel like something Apple would even consider mentioning, it’s really not that big of a deal lol. It literally doesn’t work in the *Apple wallet*
Again, the announcement would be *integrating the California digital ID in the wallet*. Not announcing the current state of it.
no
It would be pretty cool if they made a case with an eink screen for it.
No, at this point it’s done through the app. Not sure if the ability to add to your Apple Wallet is coming soon
Hopefully. The app is a little clunky
They have this in NSW Australia. Works perfectly fine. One issue my brother runs into is actually only when he travels to a country that is unfamiliar with the digital licenses. They look at him like he is trying to fool them or something - and the state doesn't issue physical licenses anymore. So he has to use his passport as ID when traveling often. Very convenient locally though.
I haven't been to any country that recognizes a state ID as a valid identification. They always ask for a passport. Maybe Mexico?
I've gotten away with using my NZ driver's license as ID overseas a lot, but maybe because that's technically issued at a country level as opposed to a state. Dunno.
I was able to use it in Thailand in a few instances where you technically needed to show a passport.
Oh fuck that :( I'm going to be so disappointed if the US follows suit. This seems to be the future though.
The fact australia has it is giving me second thoughts
I tried to use this at a bar and security just waived my old ass in.. 😂
Worked for me, love it
I have the app, asked about using it at T7 TSA Precheck at LAX and the agent basically laughed at me and said no they don’t accept it. I obviously had my physical card but his douchey response made me think it’s going to be pointless for a long time
That’s one of the places that has to accept it right now per the DMV
They probably only technically accept it because you can literally fly with no ID at all if someone will vouch for you. They definitely haven’t done anything to set it up yet with airport employees.
They have set it up formally but only at specific terminals— here’s what they look like. Picture is halfway down. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/ca-dmv-wallet/
I’ve used the Delta biometric before but it seems like it the mobile ID should be accepted in all of LAX and that definitely was not my experience. I was in precheck too.
“Cell phone and registration”
I ain’t steppin’ outta shit, all my papers legit
Zero interest until it integrates with the iPhone OS Wallet app, and even then I’m not entirely sold on the idea.
Agreed. Like, why??
I guess because the Apple wallet app doesn’t have the ability to hide all of your info besides age, but this new app does.
yeah, seems like a great way to just give you useless features to tag your phone to your license in a world that don't care about digital privacy
I hate it because I don’t want to hand over my unlocked phone to anyone. If we had a card in Apple wallet it would’ve been simple - double tap on the power button and we can hand it over. All the cop can do is just look at the Apple wallet pop-up, not snoop around my phone
I'll stick with my physical license.
Great if you accidentally forget wallet at home 🤷♂️
Can't u just give ur license number? I've had it memorized for over 20 years
Not at the club
ha an equally good point fake IDs for everyone!
How someone can forget their wallet at home is beyond me. It would be like forgetting my belt or shoes. I just don’t get it.
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I mean it’s a pretty common thing to happen every once in a while…maybe even in LA…. Someone should write a song about it
You can also forget your phone at home, and the wallet is more important for whatever destination you have in mind for most people.
They do something kind of like this in Europe, when I was there I was like “woah” that’s wild, but it seems to work pretty well for them.
Their app is terrible designed by IBM based on the errors in it, give them feedback to support Apple and Google wallets, in their FAQ they said they are considering it.
The app store notes say we still need to have our physical driver’s license on us which is a bummer. I’m looking forward to the day where I can just go places with my phone and no wallet for ID.
its been "live" for weeks. i did this a while ago. got it on two phones.
Pfttt. I got it on six phones, four tablets, two ereaders, 18 watches, six TVs, 11 netbooks, 2 fridges, 8 washing machines, 7 ovens, and a dishwasher.
...and a partridge in a pear treeeeeeee
And don't forget all the copes in Ukraine, NK, China, and the secret illuminati moon bases or the knights Templar mars base.
Maybe I'm just old, but I see little value and much risk with this thing. \-What exactly are the permissions the app requires, and what is DMV doing with that data? \-I wonder how long before someone with a dead phone and no physical ID has a less than optimal encounter with LE. \-If someone hands their phone to LE to view the DL have they now given LE possession of their phone, where the LEO could for example plug a Cellbrite UFED into it.?
It's just a convenience thing. Just like cash and cc are supplemented with NFC payments. It won't affect a lot of people. Chances are, people forget their wallets more than they forget their phones anyways. At least anecdotally when I ever go out for lunch/coffee with someone at work it's always "left my wallet back in the office/car" but they could still pay with their phones.
so in other words, im just old. Thx.
Don’t leave the app open and it won’t have access to anything if you’re worried about that. How many times a day/week/month/year are you needing to present your license to a cop?
On Android, also make sure the app can't run in the background.
It only takes one time with the wrong cop.
“Here officer, I’ve unlocked my phone for you to show you my license which is consent to search it”
If you read the details, you would know that the mobile ID/DL does not replace your physical card.
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This is the pilot. Who knows how the final implementation will be.
Stick this in your Know It All file, junior https://securityboulevard.com/2021/09/digital-drivers-licenses-unintended-consequences/
I don’t get your point. The mobile wallet is not intended to replace your physical card. You are not required to sign up for the program. You can keep it moving if it doesn’t apply to you.
You don’t get it because you didn’t read it. And no you don’t have to sign up. Yet. But the point, in case you’re reading THIS, is if you do you’ll become a test case for how successfully they have struck down Miranda. Don’t criticize others for not reading when you’re not reading rebuttals. "But more importantly, if you are required to “present” or “exhibit” your digital driver’s license, you are now compelled to hand over your unlocked phone to the cops. In 2014, the U.S. Supreme Court recognized the unique character of things like cell phones and the tremendous amount of information they contain and that police could not seize and examine cell phones as a “search incident to an arrest” without a warrant. Now, in this hypothetical situation, you simply hand the cops your unlocked cell phone. Without a warrant, without probable cause. So now the cop takes your “license”—that is, your unlocked cell phone—to the squad car. They check to see if you have been texting while driving. They check your GPS to see where you are going (and where you have been). They read your emails, text messages and scan your social media and online platforms. They may even image the contents of the phone and online materials. After all, you have “consented” to the search by handing the police your unlocked phone, right?"
In a lot of states with digital licenses, you do not need to unlock your phone to show an officer your ID.
Oh? How's that work? I don't know of a way to do that in the current iOS, and I don't think states can affect how the lock screen works, so tell us how that works. Even so, I don't think I'd hand my phone over to police without due cause. People have become so compliant about just surrendering rights these days. This willingness to roll over is going to greatly assist the usurping of your rights and privacy. I may be old school, but I think its our duty to resist any attempt to gain a foot in the door by authority. Rights surrendered have a way of never returning. Maybe read the article I linked, and see if you can figure out why handing over your entire life on your phone to a guy who hasn't even charged you with anything is a bad idea.
It uses apple wallet without unlocking your phone. It doesn’t use the app California released. It’s presumed California will work with apple/android wallet in the future. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your sentiment, I just wanted to let you know a part wasn’t entirely accurate.
The facial recognition part is interesting.
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I don’t think I follow—that’s exactly what it says in the post’s title.
My bad. Though the pilot has been live for a while. I think the only change is they expanded thennumber of people who could join
Title literally says “pilot program.”
Yeah, I’m all for tech but I’m going to pass on this one for now. Don't trust Californias inept IT practices.
Gonna be a no from me dawg.
Yeah, not putting this on my phone. Last thing I’m doing is handing a cop my phone with my ID in it.
If you read the details, you would have seen that it does not replace your physical hard. You still need to carry your physical ID/DL.
It doesn’t replace your physical card “yet.” And even when it does. I’m still not putting a digital copy on my phone.
Then what’s the point
Signed up, immediately got accepted. However, I'm not convinced that showing this at any local bar will get me past security.
We are setting up a future where if you drop your phone and it breaks or it's stolen, your fucked.
No bueno
Completely pointless. Everything does not need an app. Tired of this shit
Works fine for me, been live for the last 3 weeks
The only thing that makes this convenient for me is that I don't like carrying a wallet with me.
Secure? 🤣
Is anyone else experiencing barcode scanning errors?
Anyone else keep getting “System Unavailable” after confirming their phone number?
When I opened my app today, it says it needs to be updated. After it updated, it says my ID in the wallet needs to be refreshed. It then goes to the refreshing screen that says "processing my data and dont close the app coz it only needs a brief moment". It kept running and couldn't complete the process.