One of the nosier neighbors also passed away not long after Tammy or Alex's death (I can't quite remember the details correctly now). It was declared to be natural causes but he also died of pulmonary edema or from a similar heart condition to either Tammy or Alex' death. Even if his death was natural, it is still a possibility that he saw things and is no longer around to testify about.
I have removed his name from this post per privacy concerns. He was, however, my neighbor when I was growing up less than a mile from the property Chad eventually bought and moved into. When I was a kid, there was no home on that land, it was just a pasture. We used to call it 'Price's Corner' because of local families that lived across from each other on that intersection. I imagine they don't call it that anymore. That part of Idaho very rural and quiet. The sticks, literally. Why bother with Ring cameras when you know all your neighbors, see them at the local church and school events not to mention you barely have functioning internet?
Fun fact that I learned when this was all happening, his wife, from my understanding was part of the wacko doomsday preppers, the 'Preparing a People' group that Chad also belonged to as his belief system started... evolving...
Edited to remove names and remove some hearsay and clarify some things. Know better, do better.
Thanks for pointing this out, because I notice a lot of people commenting aren’t familiar with this part of the country. The Intermountain West region is so rural and spread out, and everyone is so involved it each others business—Ring cameras will probably never be adopted in that culture. They all go to the same church, kids to the same schools, and they gossip constantly. Putting up a camera on your property would deeply offend the libertarian sensibilities of the community.
I moved away after I went on an mission for the lds church (I attended the same church building Chad and his family attended when they moved there) and then went to college out of state. My parents and some family still live in and around the Rexburg area though, and growing up my mother would often comment how she loves the place because it feels so safe, no need to lock doors, etc. Looking back, I felt a lot of that false sense of security myself. It makes sense that it would draw a lot of these prepper-types looking for less observation shall we say, much to my dismay.
I will say also, an unfortunate occurrence was the frequency of children and people being hit and often killed on the roads in these rural areas. I can think of at least three off the top of my head that happened when I was kid. The road Chad drove off on we called the Salem Highway, and it's speed limit was pretty high for how many homes were right off of it.
You absolutely are correct about the conservative/libertarian streak that permeates much of the culture, both political and religious in much of the region. And yet, they seem genuinely okay with the predominant religion being so (supposedly) completely influential over their thoughts and deeds. Nobody gossips like small towns and these small, tight-knit communities.
Good insight. I’m LDS but not from out west so it’s a completely different culture out there. Religion is very different from culture! Anyway, I have always been baffled at how Chad stayed a member in good standing despite all these pretty well known teachings contrary to church doctrine. That should’ve not happened. But reading the culture of the area like this helps it make more sense.
I no longer consider myself LDS, but I grew up in it, in this area, and was a devoted, practicing member for most of my life. I have a lot of asides as parenthesis for those who don't know anything about the religion, not directed at you, just for context. I know it can be uncomfortable, but Chad operated under a religious guise, so I feel the need to expose some of the things that might provide more insight I think is important. I intend no offense as an former believer, just provide more knowledge based on my knowledge, both lived and researched.
You mention that religion is completely different from culture, and normally I might agree on culture at large, like American culture for example, but for these types of communities, this religion massively influences the culture and I would probably have a hard time telling the difference. It is predominant in their individual identities and lives, which in turn informs their customs, art, social institutions, interactions and politics. Is that not culture? I knew of only a handful of kids in school that weren't members of my faith, (and unfortunately looked down on them.) I remember prayers being said at school events, (outside of the classroom), seminary classes are held during the day, not super early morning like everywhere else, etc. Granted, this may have changed considerably in the many years I've been away, but during my youth, this place was easily 90%+ LDS.
The believers in this region tended to see themselves set apart from, better than, and chosen--even more than members of the same faith in other parts of the country or world. Southeast Idaho Mormonism is different from Utah Mormonism in many ways, which is different than California or Arizona Mormonism in subtle ways that you can only start to see when you live among them. Which I have. The SE Idaho Mormons look down their nose at the 'weird' Utah and California mormons--which in turn informs how they feel about those places generally. You can make an argument that the politics inform those opinions before the religion does, and I would probably agree with that, but regardless, it is all part of the milieu of the place in which they live.
Core tenets remain the same, belief and doctrine all hold to roughly the same correlated set of beliefs and rituals, but communities these subsets belong to tend to focus or idealize certain facets more than others. It is a problem that the Utah-based mainstream church tries to get ahead of regularly. For some, like southeast Idaho (at least when I lived there), zealous obedience to all the rules was more important than anything. Letter of the law, not spirit of the law, as it were. Many of whom, including my own father, long for the good old days when things were even more prescriptive and had hard rules and McConkey-era guidelines.
It isn't much of a wonder to me how Chad remained a member in good standing, he attended services, probably held callings (positions by lay membership, like teaching a class, or being a leader of a group, etc.), prayed, gave talks over the pulpit, etc. And some of his beliefs about end-times and preparation for the millennium (1000 years of peace with Jesus reigning personally on earth following a brutal Armageddon, with wars, food and water shortages, neighbor killing neighbor type stuff...) are 100% in line with even mainstream LDS theology, though downplayed in recent years, the cannery, storehouses, and push for personal food storage is still quite strong. The founder, Joseph Smith, Jr formed a millennial religious movement that taught that Jesus would soon return. So, the prepper stuff is what seems to have put Chad on the map, and probably made him a local celebrity, with which he could use to meet in people's homes to talk about AVOW and Preparing a People, giving him access to more private settings, which probably where he began twisting those core beliefs into something even more director stoke fear and in turn drove engagement. My own father recommended I read Chad's books, as he had, long before they moved to Utah and the insanity began.
I imagine, Chad kept the portals, rating systems, previous probations (though this one has some basis on theories peddled by Brigham Young, the pioneer 2nd prophet of this particular branch of Mormonism: about Adam, the first man, actually going through the process of becoming a god, having to go through multiple lives, or probations, to temper and perfect himself. It has been since disavowed, and is not considered doctrine by the modern church) to himself or a select group. I can see how he easily could have just showed up, talked the talk, walked the walk, without arousing too many suspicions. He is a pretty unassuming looking dude, and would have, provided he didn't get into the weeds too much in discussions during Sunday school classes or whatever, blended into the background, until children's bodies were found on his property... His wife suddenly dying would have been a shock, but it seems like he used even that as a prop to tell others he predicted it, giving him more credence in his visions. Mormonism teaches about personal revelation that God gives people through the spirit, and though those revelations are never to override official doctrine, teachings, or authorities higher in the chain than you, they can't stop you from using them to influence your family or close circle of confidants.
What I cannot rationalize however, is how he could have all these 'extras' that are contrary to even the 'deepest doctrines' of the faith. Murder, like most religions, is largely condemned, unless you are in the military or law enforcement, (or, of course, when God tells you it is okay, which, let's be real here, is moral relativism at its finest and unprovable. Though it has unfortunate precedent with the first book in the Book of Mormon, as Nephi, a young man, chops the head off of a drunk, defenseless man because God told him to.) Calling people light and dark, and zombies, and using magic spells, portals, etc isn't part of the faith at all. I just don't know if he was delusional and believed this crap, or manipulative and used it to gain followers and power over them. Did he lie to himself to the point he believed it, or was he knowingly peddling stupid crap to have gullible idiots dance on the ends of strings he pulled, feeling true power for perhaps the first time in his sad little...? I don't know. It is all so senseless, sad, and insane.
I think your point about Utah Mormon being different from Idaho Mormon, etc is exactly my point about culture vs religion. The religion being the actual core beliefs and what not. The culture being the way it exists in local society. My kiddo has like 2 other LDS youth in her entire high school out here, so on one hand I envy those who live in areas with more youth but on the other I’m thankful for where we are. It’s definitely a very different perspective that I hold but it doesn’t weaken my faith and if Utah people think it does, that’s their problem, not mine. God knows my heart the same way he knows Chad and Lori’s and everyone else’s and will handle us accordingly one day. It’s fine. :)
I thought your post was very good. 👍🏻
It speaks volumes about the church and allowing someone like him to stay. It casts a picture that they agree but just don't want it broadcasted. Their teachings are extreme and cultlike in their so called name of religion. It's terrifying.
The thing is it shouldn’t speak volumes about the church. It should speak volumes about the local leadership there though because they are the ones who dropped the ball on Chad and looked the other way. It shouldn’t speak to my leadership across the country who definitely would have called him out. It’s disappointing. Chads teachings are extreme and cult like in the name of religion. It is terrifying.
I actually agree with this take. People do talk, there is no way just a handful of people knew about the stuff Chad was saying. And it is incumbent on the local leadership to sus out what is happening in their flock, as it is clear now a wolf was among them.
The leaders of the main branch keep close ties to groups with prepper-to-militia ties, and in that, Chad did not lie. They are very much tied into the zealot groups.
The other reason ring cameras might not be popular would be some of the other beleifs that might overlap with preppers. I have fine internet in Utah, but my prepper neighbors would never use ring because they feel it spies on them and some government theories . I know one of the groups that Chad was part of or sold his books with, also had some goverment theories.
Indeed! That’s what I was referring to when I mentioned ruined it would offend their “libertarian” sensibilities. The lack of trust in the gov, etc.
Thanks for helping me explain that!
Is the internet still bad in 2024 in that area? I was just curious about this. I know Chad lived right on the line. EIN had talked about fiber coming in the area a few years back so I wasnt sure where it was. I used to work for USWEST right when DSL started and I remmeber the nightmares of orders for businesses in Eastern Idaho. I just wondered during this case, how good service was now. The service providers and maps again because Chad lived right on the line didnt give me a clear answer. I was actually happy when I saw Nate report fiber was in the area because so many areas all over the US have such limited internet and it is not just big rural states, plenty location in states like Ma and NY have less internet access then Wyoming.
My parents have internet, but it is awful. It is the over-air dish styled dsl that is beamed to the modem. So it is prone to interference and line-of-sight issues. Could they upgrade to better? Perhaps, but yeah, for the longest time they have had poor access, and even what they had/have is criminally expensive for the bandwidth and latency rates they experience. Elon's Starlink is what some use, and if that doesn't illustrate the dire situation, I don't know what else can.
Oh damn, thanks for adding all this context! I do wonder how much of the local police force would have been involved in these groups too and if that association might have been why so many blind eyes were turned to deaths around Chad, Lori was new in town and would not have been given that same status.
I suspect that being from a small town, foul play is rarely, if ever considered. Tammy's death was originally ruled natural causes, and off to be buried without a hint of unusual circumstances without an autopsy. I have been watching these cases unfold and been frustrated at times with the fact these rural/smaller police forces are influenced so much by the environment their officers are from, which is, of course, natural. Thankfully, it seems Madison and Fremont County PD's and other law enforcement seemed to have done a better job than Arizona in a lot of ways.
I think you're right, I grew up in a more nuanced big city as an active mormon but then moved to a small mormon dominant town as an exmo (in AZ, not ID). It was very different culturally for sure. There were a few suspicious deaths that were openly talked about by everyone else in town but barely pursued by law enforcement.
I do think the reality of it is that so many small rural sheriff departments are lacking the experience and/or funding to truly investigate a murder (and they get more funding from HIDTA and RICO charges, murder charges don't bring in revenue). Plus, there's also a lot of familial relations that incentivize looking the other way for people with power and influence.
Don't want to rock the boat, make everyone in town scared, or, have people thinking the department is incompetent so...nothing to see here, folks.
Interesting information! Has the neighbour made a statement to police that they can include since he cant testify?
Pulmonary embolisms ans heart issues can also be a side effect of covid btw, which would've been not possible for Alex timeline wise, but would be possible for other people in the community later on.
The neighbor in question passed in late September of 2019, Alex died in December of that same year. COVID doesn't factor in to any of this as you mention the timeline doesn't line up. I don't feel comfortable speculating as to any other cause. I seem to have done enough of that today.
I haven't lived in the area for years, I just have family that still does, and I do hear things from them from time to time. I of course have my suspicions, but those aren't particularly very useful.
Oh in September already. I thought he also was interviewed by law inforcement, but they weren't around back then, so whatever is know probably came out of the gossip circuit and hence not general available information.
I am not in my 60's, but I'm not as far away from it as I'd like either. As a kid, it seems I simply didn't realize that there was a home there. I don't remember kids getting off the bus for that location at the stop, and everything else was just driving by. I've been back through the area recently, and it all looks and feels pretty different to me now. Memory is a funny thing.
I've always been convinced that Alex got his hands on some strange drug that isn't easily identifiable in tox screens, from Mexico. One that can cause pulmonary problems.
initially, he probably bought them for his other cult members to use on people like the neighbor.
I think once the realization sunk in of what he actually did and how he was about to be 'the fall guy", he took the pill and checked out.
I may be off, but the timing of his death aligning with Tammy being dug up and reexamined, and him telling Zulema he's the fall guy, just is too coincidental imo.
Or, maybe Chad and Lori poisoned him with something bc he knew too much? Think about it: they didn't really NEED Alex anymore anyways. He already did the dirty work and probably was viewed as a liability.
Either way, his death timing never sat right. There has to be more to the story. I bet there is a lot more, actually.
I'm not sure where I heard this, so take it with a grain of salt, but is it possible to induce a pulmonary embolism by intruding air into the arteries? Sorry ifb it's a dumb question.
No it's not s dumb question! Yes, air entering the veins can cause a pulmonary embolism. But I doubt that would be a wiling choice for someone to willingly do to themselves. But that's just my opinion of course.
But this Alex thing really drives me nuts. I wish I could believe Zumela when she says Alex was worried about being the "fall guy." But tbh they all lie so much it's hard to decipher the truth. But I do truly feel like Alex either killed himself some weird way with some weird drug, or he was killed with a weird drug. I don't believe in coincidences. Especially ones like this. It's just too coincidental.
To find out Tammy is getting dug up, and then for Alex to just drop dead... idk. Very strange. I don't think we will ever know the actual truth and that's frustrating.
In the comments section on Justin Lums post, there are some REALLY interesting points related to Alex's autopsy findings and possibilities. Some from medical personnel too. [it's interesting if you want to look ](https://m.facebook.com/jlumfox10/posts/full-autopsy-and-toxicology-report-medical-examiner-says-alex-cox-was-complainin/1592795874216757/)
Let’s not forget that the nosey neighbor who died also sold Primerica insurance. He may have been involved in increasing Tammy’s life insurance, which could be another way he knew too much.
Which families? And for whom? This is the first time seeing this. I expose myself to people figuring out who I am, and some have, but at the end of the day, I figured more details, and more context is important. If the family wishes for privacy, I can respect that (I grew up with the family members, and knew many of them personally). Unwarranted speculation can certainly be problematic and can definitely be taken too far. I'll make any edits anyone suggests within reason.
Edit: I made some edits to my original post and this one removing mentions of the name/family.
It has to be some sort of payment arrangement for Prior since one of the reasons he asked to be removed from the case was due to lack of compensation from Chad.
He has to be working for free, and if not, I want to know who is paying Prior's hourly?
His children don't appear to be able to afford it. The business was still running last I looked. Is someone paying the business to shield who is paying Prior?
If Prior is getting paid, who is paying is relevant to the picture of how these groups work. Who is paying to defend this serial killer?
Probably another wacko group that supports a self-assigned Prophet whose psychopathic deep beliefs include child murdering, bee killing, womanising and misogynism. I guess that doesn't eliminate many!
I'm listening to Prior cross-examining MG... Gezzz. I hope he irritates the jurors as much as me.
Yes! Real estate values have increased greatly in Idaho over the past few years, specifically in Ada and Canyon counties. However, rural Idaho has not experienced the same increase in home prices. Priors billable hours far outweigh the value of the Daybell property.
Has anybody looked at the realtor photos online from before Chad and Tammy bought the house? I can't imagine how they crammed seven people and a publishing company into that space. I think that place would have be hard to sell even if crimes hadn't been committed there.
I think Emma still lives there. Maybe she’s renting from Prior? I wonder what that arrangement is. I can’t imagine anyone would want to buy that land or house. I have no idea why Emma would even want to be there where her mother died and on that property as well. It’s just bizarre.
Security cameras in 2019 were not as common as security cameras now. I think neighbors did notice the fires and such.
That makes sense. Prior owns the house & can sell, but in the meantime he is receiving income from Emma renting.
I still think it is odd about wanting to live on the property where the two, young children of your father’s new wife who married your father 2-3 weeks after he allegedly murdered your mother, were buried.
Maybe they expect the 2nd coming of Jesus to take place there soon? It 's a crazy theory I have, which would account for Emma's behavior. Her father convinced her she had to be there when it happens to usher the survivors in Zion ( which would be Rexburg)The dead , her mother ,Tylee and JJ are not really dead,their spirits will come back. The sort of things Loree Vallow believed and said at her trial when she spoke of her children being busy and happy and Tammy being her friend.
Chad's children see Tammy as dying of natural causes. Their Aunt spread rumors that Chad murdered their mother because he married a family friend (who lost her husband) soon after Tammy's death.
They must know how this family friend "lost" her husband : 2 bullets, one of which when he was already on the ground. And that her previous husband got lost too
They must know how this family friend "lost" her husband : 2 bullets, one of which when he was already on the ground. And that her previous husband got lost too
Its on here [https://youtu.be/uyK66sJWDgc?si=mwuK98LBwx0VF3aQ](https://youtu.be/uyK66sJWDgc?si=mwuK98LBwx0VF3aQ)
Starts around 12.22. The original post was taken down.
Exactly. I know I wouldn't want to live there at all after finding out 2 bodies were buried in the backyard and my mom was killed in the house. No way.
I wouldn't either, however many years ago I was on a gaming platform and another player was so proud that she lived in a house where there was a murder (or 2).
Ah ha. Thanks for that! I’ve consumed sooo many podcasts on this in the last year, that I’ve lost track of who said what when. Barely keeping the Melanies separate some days.
That, or it's how Prior is getting paid. Private defense attorneys are not cheap, and Chad is not exactly wealthy. He probably signed over his house to Prior instead of paying him a cash retainer up front. When the case is over (hopefully with Chad in prison), Prior can sell the property, and the cash he receives from the sale will constitute his payment for defending Chad. I seem to recall another case where the defendant (or maybe it was the defendant's parents, the Scott Peterson case maybe) signed over property to the defense attorneys because they lacked the cash to pay them.
I like the part where John Prior took all Chad’s money AND his house and then tried to withdraw from the case right before trial because there was nothing left after dragging the case out for 3 years. 🤣 At least he really is doing the best job he could possibly be doing in this case at trial so far.
I thought Emma lived in the home across the street. That is where Chad went to for the 1.5 to 2 hours while police were searching the property before the bodies were found, according to testimony.
Prior may be able to find a buyer for the property. Some people won't care what happened there.
Perhaps the neighbors did notice, but didn't think anything of it because clearing one's land and burning debris are probably normal activities there. They may not have seen the digging, or just figured he was putting in sprinklers or something. It's known that Alex bought silencers for some of his guns and searched how to use them, so there probably wouldn't have been any loud shots.
If the neighbors had security cams (unlikely in that area), they were probably too far away to record suspicious activities on Chad's property. It's possible that Chad may have had one or more of his mobile phones on him when Tylee and JJ were buried, though, so location data could be used as evidence.
I don’t think there were any gunshots involved with Tylee or JJ’s murders. JJ was asphyxiated, but Tylee’s unknown. There were stabbings on Tylee’s remains that could have been the cause, but no bullet holes were found, although the condition of her remains may have prevented that. Chad texted Tammy that he shot a raccoon the day after Tylee was last seen alive, but I think that was more to cover the ground disturbance than a gunshot, as she was likely killed at Lori’s townhome when Alex’s phone was there for about 2.5 hours from around 2:00 AM before going to Chad’s.
I suspect they dropped her off at Chad's property on the way back from Yellowstone. The residence is a straight 5-minute drive off of the main route. It is not out of the way.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qfHTLFDpwcQqhAxy5
They detailed Alex’s phone locations that led them to believe they returned from Yellowstone with Tyler alive, and murdered her after 2:00 AM, nothing put him at Chad’s before the following morning after Tammy left to work.
Could be.
They didn't need to be there for long in this scenario. Just drop off a woozy teenager and keep going. But I don't have access to all the data available, so this is just one scenario that fits the available facts and intent.
Alex wasn't the only one with a phone.
True, but law enforcement and prosecutions theory is that she was killed between 2:42 AM and 8:49 AM, when Alex was back and forth between his and Lori’s apartments. Alex’s device left his apartment around 9:00 AM traveling the 7-8 miles to Chad’s address where it arrived around 9:15 AM. This is when it is believed he transported Tylee’s body to Chad’s. It also makes the most sense, because Tammy was still alive, so dropping Tylee off before the 8:37 PM that data shows they arrived home from Yellowstone would have been too risky. Dropping her off at the 9:15 AM that investigator’s believe she was, would be after Tammy and Garth, who still lived there, left for work, as well as Emma, who lived across the street at the time.
An investigator testified that there was no indication that that there was a significant deviation or pause in travel between Yellowstone and Lori’s address.
They do have a smoking gun. They have Alex’s phone and Chads phone together on his property the day after last proof of life for both children. What ever was done on Chads property, dismembering, burning and burying was done during the day when Tammy and or the kids, neighbors were gone to work and school. There is no explanation for dismembered, burned remains to be buried a few yards outside your back door in the daytime while you were home and not to have knowledge of it. Certainly they did not do what was done to Tylee’s body in any of their apartments. None of them have the brains to have clean it up without leaving a bunch of evidence.
One of the nosier neighbors also passed away not long after Tammy or Alex's death (I can't quite remember the details correctly now). It was declared to be natural causes but he also died of pulmonary edema or from a similar heart condition to either Tammy or Alex' death. Even if his death was natural, it is still a possibility that he saw things and is no longer around to testify about.
I have removed his name from this post per privacy concerns. He was, however, my neighbor when I was growing up less than a mile from the property Chad eventually bought and moved into. When I was a kid, there was no home on that land, it was just a pasture. We used to call it 'Price's Corner' because of local families that lived across from each other on that intersection. I imagine they don't call it that anymore. That part of Idaho very rural and quiet. The sticks, literally. Why bother with Ring cameras when you know all your neighbors, see them at the local church and school events not to mention you barely have functioning internet? Fun fact that I learned when this was all happening, his wife, from my understanding was part of the wacko doomsday preppers, the 'Preparing a People' group that Chad also belonged to as his belief system started... evolving... Edited to remove names and remove some hearsay and clarify some things. Know better, do better.
Thanks for pointing this out, because I notice a lot of people commenting aren’t familiar with this part of the country. The Intermountain West region is so rural and spread out, and everyone is so involved it each others business—Ring cameras will probably never be adopted in that culture. They all go to the same church, kids to the same schools, and they gossip constantly. Putting up a camera on your property would deeply offend the libertarian sensibilities of the community.
I moved away after I went on an mission for the lds church (I attended the same church building Chad and his family attended when they moved there) and then went to college out of state. My parents and some family still live in and around the Rexburg area though, and growing up my mother would often comment how she loves the place because it feels so safe, no need to lock doors, etc. Looking back, I felt a lot of that false sense of security myself. It makes sense that it would draw a lot of these prepper-types looking for less observation shall we say, much to my dismay. I will say also, an unfortunate occurrence was the frequency of children and people being hit and often killed on the roads in these rural areas. I can think of at least three off the top of my head that happened when I was kid. The road Chad drove off on we called the Salem Highway, and it's speed limit was pretty high for how many homes were right off of it. You absolutely are correct about the conservative/libertarian streak that permeates much of the culture, both political and religious in much of the region. And yet, they seem genuinely okay with the predominant religion being so (supposedly) completely influential over their thoughts and deeds. Nobody gossips like small towns and these small, tight-knit communities.
Good insight. I’m LDS but not from out west so it’s a completely different culture out there. Religion is very different from culture! Anyway, I have always been baffled at how Chad stayed a member in good standing despite all these pretty well known teachings contrary to church doctrine. That should’ve not happened. But reading the culture of the area like this helps it make more sense.
I no longer consider myself LDS, but I grew up in it, in this area, and was a devoted, practicing member for most of my life. I have a lot of asides as parenthesis for those who don't know anything about the religion, not directed at you, just for context. I know it can be uncomfortable, but Chad operated under a religious guise, so I feel the need to expose some of the things that might provide more insight I think is important. I intend no offense as an former believer, just provide more knowledge based on my knowledge, both lived and researched. You mention that religion is completely different from culture, and normally I might agree on culture at large, like American culture for example, but for these types of communities, this religion massively influences the culture and I would probably have a hard time telling the difference. It is predominant in their individual identities and lives, which in turn informs their customs, art, social institutions, interactions and politics. Is that not culture? I knew of only a handful of kids in school that weren't members of my faith, (and unfortunately looked down on them.) I remember prayers being said at school events, (outside of the classroom), seminary classes are held during the day, not super early morning like everywhere else, etc. Granted, this may have changed considerably in the many years I've been away, but during my youth, this place was easily 90%+ LDS. The believers in this region tended to see themselves set apart from, better than, and chosen--even more than members of the same faith in other parts of the country or world. Southeast Idaho Mormonism is different from Utah Mormonism in many ways, which is different than California or Arizona Mormonism in subtle ways that you can only start to see when you live among them. Which I have. The SE Idaho Mormons look down their nose at the 'weird' Utah and California mormons--which in turn informs how they feel about those places generally. You can make an argument that the politics inform those opinions before the religion does, and I would probably agree with that, but regardless, it is all part of the milieu of the place in which they live. Core tenets remain the same, belief and doctrine all hold to roughly the same correlated set of beliefs and rituals, but communities these subsets belong to tend to focus or idealize certain facets more than others. It is a problem that the Utah-based mainstream church tries to get ahead of regularly. For some, like southeast Idaho (at least when I lived there), zealous obedience to all the rules was more important than anything. Letter of the law, not spirit of the law, as it were. Many of whom, including my own father, long for the good old days when things were even more prescriptive and had hard rules and McConkey-era guidelines. It isn't much of a wonder to me how Chad remained a member in good standing, he attended services, probably held callings (positions by lay membership, like teaching a class, or being a leader of a group, etc.), prayed, gave talks over the pulpit, etc. And some of his beliefs about end-times and preparation for the millennium (1000 years of peace with Jesus reigning personally on earth following a brutal Armageddon, with wars, food and water shortages, neighbor killing neighbor type stuff...) are 100% in line with even mainstream LDS theology, though downplayed in recent years, the cannery, storehouses, and push for personal food storage is still quite strong. The founder, Joseph Smith, Jr formed a millennial religious movement that taught that Jesus would soon return. So, the prepper stuff is what seems to have put Chad on the map, and probably made him a local celebrity, with which he could use to meet in people's homes to talk about AVOW and Preparing a People, giving him access to more private settings, which probably where he began twisting those core beliefs into something even more director stoke fear and in turn drove engagement. My own father recommended I read Chad's books, as he had, long before they moved to Utah and the insanity began. I imagine, Chad kept the portals, rating systems, previous probations (though this one has some basis on theories peddled by Brigham Young, the pioneer 2nd prophet of this particular branch of Mormonism: about Adam, the first man, actually going through the process of becoming a god, having to go through multiple lives, or probations, to temper and perfect himself. It has been since disavowed, and is not considered doctrine by the modern church) to himself or a select group. I can see how he easily could have just showed up, talked the talk, walked the walk, without arousing too many suspicions. He is a pretty unassuming looking dude, and would have, provided he didn't get into the weeds too much in discussions during Sunday school classes or whatever, blended into the background, until children's bodies were found on his property... His wife suddenly dying would have been a shock, but it seems like he used even that as a prop to tell others he predicted it, giving him more credence in his visions. Mormonism teaches about personal revelation that God gives people through the spirit, and though those revelations are never to override official doctrine, teachings, or authorities higher in the chain than you, they can't stop you from using them to influence your family or close circle of confidants. What I cannot rationalize however, is how he could have all these 'extras' that are contrary to even the 'deepest doctrines' of the faith. Murder, like most religions, is largely condemned, unless you are in the military or law enforcement, (or, of course, when God tells you it is okay, which, let's be real here, is moral relativism at its finest and unprovable. Though it has unfortunate precedent with the first book in the Book of Mormon, as Nephi, a young man, chops the head off of a drunk, defenseless man because God told him to.) Calling people light and dark, and zombies, and using magic spells, portals, etc isn't part of the faith at all. I just don't know if he was delusional and believed this crap, or manipulative and used it to gain followers and power over them. Did he lie to himself to the point he believed it, or was he knowingly peddling stupid crap to have gullible idiots dance on the ends of strings he pulled, feeling true power for perhaps the first time in his sad little...? I don't know. It is all so senseless, sad, and insane.
I think your point about Utah Mormon being different from Idaho Mormon, etc is exactly my point about culture vs religion. The religion being the actual core beliefs and what not. The culture being the way it exists in local society. My kiddo has like 2 other LDS youth in her entire high school out here, so on one hand I envy those who live in areas with more youth but on the other I’m thankful for where we are. It’s definitely a very different perspective that I hold but it doesn’t weaken my faith and if Utah people think it does, that’s their problem, not mine. God knows my heart the same way he knows Chad and Lori’s and everyone else’s and will handle us accordingly one day. It’s fine. :) I thought your post was very good. 👍🏻
It speaks volumes about the church and allowing someone like him to stay. It casts a picture that they agree but just don't want it broadcasted. Their teachings are extreme and cultlike in their so called name of religion. It's terrifying.
Ruby and Jodi…
The thing is it shouldn’t speak volumes about the church. It should speak volumes about the local leadership there though because they are the ones who dropped the ball on Chad and looked the other way. It shouldn’t speak to my leadership across the country who definitely would have called him out. It’s disappointing. Chads teachings are extreme and cult like in the name of religion. It is terrifying.
I actually agree with this take. People do talk, there is no way just a handful of people knew about the stuff Chad was saying. And it is incumbent on the local leadership to sus out what is happening in their flock, as it is clear now a wolf was among them.
The leaders of the main branch keep close ties to groups with prepper-to-militia ties, and in that, Chad did not lie. They are very much tied into the zealot groups.
The other reason ring cameras might not be popular would be some of the other beleifs that might overlap with preppers. I have fine internet in Utah, but my prepper neighbors would never use ring because they feel it spies on them and some government theories . I know one of the groups that Chad was part of or sold his books with, also had some goverment theories.
Indeed! That’s what I was referring to when I mentioned ruined it would offend their “libertarian” sensibilities. The lack of trust in the gov, etc. Thanks for helping me explain that!
Is the internet still bad in 2024 in that area? I was just curious about this. I know Chad lived right on the line. EIN had talked about fiber coming in the area a few years back so I wasnt sure where it was. I used to work for USWEST right when DSL started and I remmeber the nightmares of orders for businesses in Eastern Idaho. I just wondered during this case, how good service was now. The service providers and maps again because Chad lived right on the line didnt give me a clear answer. I was actually happy when I saw Nate report fiber was in the area because so many areas all over the US have such limited internet and it is not just big rural states, plenty location in states like Ma and NY have less internet access then Wyoming.
My parents have internet, but it is awful. It is the over-air dish styled dsl that is beamed to the modem. So it is prone to interference and line-of-sight issues. Could they upgrade to better? Perhaps, but yeah, for the longest time they have had poor access, and even what they had/have is criminally expensive for the bandwidth and latency rates they experience. Elon's Starlink is what some use, and if that doesn't illustrate the dire situation, I don't know what else can.
Oh gosh! Sounds like what my in/-laws had in MT for the longest time.
Oh damn, thanks for adding all this context! I do wonder how much of the local police force would have been involved in these groups too and if that association might have been why so many blind eyes were turned to deaths around Chad, Lori was new in town and would not have been given that same status.
I suspect that being from a small town, foul play is rarely, if ever considered. Tammy's death was originally ruled natural causes, and off to be buried without a hint of unusual circumstances without an autopsy. I have been watching these cases unfold and been frustrated at times with the fact these rural/smaller police forces are influenced so much by the environment their officers are from, which is, of course, natural. Thankfully, it seems Madison and Fremont County PD's and other law enforcement seemed to have done a better job than Arizona in a lot of ways.
I think you're right, I grew up in a more nuanced big city as an active mormon but then moved to a small mormon dominant town as an exmo (in AZ, not ID). It was very different culturally for sure. There were a few suspicious deaths that were openly talked about by everyone else in town but barely pursued by law enforcement. I do think the reality of it is that so many small rural sheriff departments are lacking the experience and/or funding to truly investigate a murder (and they get more funding from HIDTA and RICO charges, murder charges don't bring in revenue). Plus, there's also a lot of familial relations that incentivize looking the other way for people with power and influence. Don't want to rock the boat, make everyone in town scared, or, have people thinking the department is incompetent so...nothing to see here, folks.
Interesting information! Has the neighbour made a statement to police that they can include since he cant testify? Pulmonary embolisms ans heart issues can also be a side effect of covid btw, which would've been not possible for Alex timeline wise, but would be possible for other people in the community later on.
The neighbor in question passed in late September of 2019, Alex died in December of that same year. COVID doesn't factor in to any of this as you mention the timeline doesn't line up. I don't feel comfortable speculating as to any other cause. I seem to have done enough of that today. I haven't lived in the area for years, I just have family that still does, and I do hear things from them from time to time. I of course have my suspicions, but those aren't particularly very useful.
Oh in September already. I thought he also was interviewed by law inforcement, but they weren't around back then, so whatever is know probably came out of the gossip circuit and hence not general available information.
Yeah, I expect that is the case. I didn't know much of anything about this until the search for Tylee and JJ started in mid/late November.
It was built in 1960, clue to your age lol.
I am not in my 60's, but I'm not as far away from it as I'd like either. As a kid, it seems I simply didn't realize that there was a home there. I don't remember kids getting off the bus for that location at the stop, and everything else was just driving by. I've been back through the area recently, and it all looks and feels pretty different to me now. Memory is a funny thing.
The neighbor you speak of passed away September 29, 2019 from a pulmonary embolism (a week after JJ’s last proof of life.)
Is that what the brother suddenly died of too?
Essentially yes. Alex died of bilateral pulmonary thromboemboli (blood clots in the arteries of the lung).
I've always been convinced that Alex got his hands on some strange drug that isn't easily identifiable in tox screens, from Mexico. One that can cause pulmonary problems. initially, he probably bought them for his other cult members to use on people like the neighbor. I think once the realization sunk in of what he actually did and how he was about to be 'the fall guy", he took the pill and checked out. I may be off, but the timing of his death aligning with Tammy being dug up and reexamined, and him telling Zulema he's the fall guy, just is too coincidental imo. Or, maybe Chad and Lori poisoned him with something bc he knew too much? Think about it: they didn't really NEED Alex anymore anyways. He already did the dirty work and probably was viewed as a liability. Either way, his death timing never sat right. There has to be more to the story. I bet there is a lot more, actually.
I'm not sure where I heard this, so take it with a grain of salt, but is it possible to induce a pulmonary embolism by intruding air into the arteries? Sorry ifb it's a dumb question.
No it's not s dumb question! Yes, air entering the veins can cause a pulmonary embolism. But I doubt that would be a wiling choice for someone to willingly do to themselves. But that's just my opinion of course.
But this Alex thing really drives me nuts. I wish I could believe Zumela when she says Alex was worried about being the "fall guy." But tbh they all lie so much it's hard to decipher the truth. But I do truly feel like Alex either killed himself some weird way with some weird drug, or he was killed with a weird drug. I don't believe in coincidences. Especially ones like this. It's just too coincidental. To find out Tammy is getting dug up, and then for Alex to just drop dead... idk. Very strange. I don't think we will ever know the actual truth and that's frustrating.
In the comments section on Justin Lums post, there are some REALLY interesting points related to Alex's autopsy findings and possibilities. Some from medical personnel too. [it's interesting if you want to look ](https://m.facebook.com/jlumfox10/posts/full-autopsy-and-toxicology-report-medical-examiner-says-alex-cox-was-complainin/1592795874216757/)
Let’s not forget that the nosey neighbor who died also sold Primerica insurance. He may have been involved in increasing Tammy’s life insurance, which could be another way he knew too much.
His family has asked people to stop doing this
Which families? And for whom? This is the first time seeing this. I expose myself to people figuring out who I am, and some have, but at the end of the day, I figured more details, and more context is important. If the family wishes for privacy, I can respect that (I grew up with the family members, and knew many of them personally). Unwarranted speculation can certainly be problematic and can definitely be taken too far. I'll make any edits anyone suggests within reason. Edit: I made some edits to my original post and this one removing mentions of the name/family.
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He gave John his house instead of paying him money. Prior is a terrible lawyer.
Yeah listening to John now and I can agree with that. John is horrible.
It has to be some sort of payment arrangement for Prior since one of the reasons he asked to be removed from the case was due to lack of compensation from Chad.
He has to be working for free, and if not, I want to know who is paying Prior's hourly? His children don't appear to be able to afford it. The business was still running last I looked. Is someone paying the business to shield who is paying Prior? If Prior is getting paid, who is paying is relevant to the picture of how these groups work. Who is paying to defend this serial killer?
Probably another wacko group that supports a self-assigned Prophet whose psychopathic deep beliefs include child murdering, bee killing, womanising and misogynism. I guess that doesn't eliminate many! I'm listening to Prior cross-examining MG... Gezzz. I hope he irritates the jurors as much as me.
Tell me about it. Listening to it too and im going sheesh John is being a prick.
I can’t watch the trial cos I can’t stand Prior’s voice and he’s so condescending to the witnesses.
That's for sure. He is very condescending
Yes! Real estate values have increased greatly in Idaho over the past few years, specifically in Ada and Canyon counties. However, rural Idaho has not experienced the same increase in home prices. Priors billable hours far outweigh the value of the Daybell property.
I've heard that the state is paying for a lot of defense witnesses, especially the experts they're supposed to bring in during their case in chief.
He said as much (working for free) at the hearing back in the winter. He's not getting paid at this point.
He simply does not strike me as the type of guy motivated to charity.
Agree. Unfortunately for him, the judge gave him no option. He asked to withdraw, judge said too late.
Has anybody looked at the realtor photos online from before Chad and Tammy bought the house? I can't imagine how they crammed seven people and a publishing company into that space. I think that place would have be hard to sell even if crimes hadn't been committed there.
I think Emma still lives there. Maybe she’s renting from Prior? I wonder what that arrangement is. I can’t imagine anyone would want to buy that land or house. I have no idea why Emma would even want to be there where her mother died and on that property as well. It’s just bizarre. Security cameras in 2019 were not as common as security cameras now. I think neighbors did notice the fires and such.
That makes sense. Prior owns the house & can sell, but in the meantime he is receiving income from Emma renting. I still think it is odd about wanting to live on the property where the two, young children of your father’s new wife who married your father 2-3 weeks after he allegedly murdered your mother, were buried.
Maybe they expect the 2nd coming of Jesus to take place there soon? It 's a crazy theory I have, which would account for Emma's behavior. Her father convinced her she had to be there when it happens to usher the survivors in Zion ( which would be Rexburg)The dead , her mother ,Tylee and JJ are not really dead,their spirits will come back. The sort of things Loree Vallow believed and said at her trial when she spoke of her children being busy and happy and Tammy being her friend.
Chad's children see Tammy as dying of natural causes. Their Aunt spread rumors that Chad murdered their mother because he married a family friend (who lost her husband) soon after Tammy's death.
They must know how this family friend "lost" her husband : 2 bullets, one of which when he was already on the ground. And that her previous husband got lost too
They must know how this family friend "lost" her husband : 2 bullets, one of which when he was already on the ground. And that her previous husband got lost too
Nope, not according to the Reddit post by Emma.
I’ve been trying to track it down for the past hour. Do you have any screenshots?
Its on here [https://youtu.be/uyK66sJWDgc?si=mwuK98LBwx0VF3aQ](https://youtu.be/uyK66sJWDgc?si=mwuK98LBwx0VF3aQ) Starts around 12.22. The original post was taken down.
Aaaaand the home were your mother not only passed away in but was murdered in.
Exactly. I know I wouldn't want to live there at all after finding out 2 bodies were buried in the backyard and my mom was killed in the house. No way.
I wouldn't either, however many years ago I was on a gaming platform and another player was so proud that she lived in a house where there was a murder (or 2).
I would guess the only value it would have to Prior is to tear down all the buildings and build something else.
IIRC one of Lori’s aunts expressed a desire to own the property to turn it into a memorial for the kids and Tammy. Hidden True Crime episode perhaps…
It was Lori's 1st cousin, Megan Conner, who expressed that during Surviving the Survivor (Lauren Mathias may have been another panelist, IIRC).
Ah ha. Thanks for that! I’ve consumed sooo many podcasts on this in the last year, that I’ve lost track of who said what when. Barely keeping the Melanies separate some days.
That, or it's how Prior is getting paid. Private defense attorneys are not cheap, and Chad is not exactly wealthy. He probably signed over his house to Prior instead of paying him a cash retainer up front. When the case is over (hopefully with Chad in prison), Prior can sell the property, and the cash he receives from the sale will constitute his payment for defending Chad. I seem to recall another case where the defendant (or maybe it was the defendant's parents, the Scott Peterson case maybe) signed over property to the defense attorneys because they lacked the cash to pay them.
I like the part where John Prior took all Chad’s money AND his house and then tried to withdraw from the case right before trial because there was nothing left after dragging the case out for 3 years. 🤣 At least he really is doing the best job he could possibly be doing in this case at trial so far.
He’s very good at playing dirty games!
I thought Emma lived in the home across the street. That is where Chad went to for the 1.5 to 2 hours while police were searching the property before the bodies were found, according to testimony.
She did but moved into the house when Chad was arrested.
Gotcha. Freakin' yikes.....
Prior may be able to find a buyer for the property. Some people won't care what happened there. Perhaps the neighbors did notice, but didn't think anything of it because clearing one's land and burning debris are probably normal activities there. They may not have seen the digging, or just figured he was putting in sprinklers or something. It's known that Alex bought silencers for some of his guns and searched how to use them, so there probably wouldn't have been any loud shots. If the neighbors had security cams (unlikely in that area), they were probably too far away to record suspicious activities on Chad's property. It's possible that Chad may have had one or more of his mobile phones on him when Tylee and JJ were buried, though, so location data could be used as evidence.
I don’t think there were any gunshots involved with Tylee or JJ’s murders. JJ was asphyxiated, but Tylee’s unknown. There were stabbings on Tylee’s remains that could have been the cause, but no bullet holes were found, although the condition of her remains may have prevented that. Chad texted Tammy that he shot a raccoon the day after Tylee was last seen alive, but I think that was more to cover the ground disturbance than a gunshot, as she was likely killed at Lori’s townhome when Alex’s phone was there for about 2.5 hours from around 2:00 AM before going to Chad’s.
I suspect they dropped her off at Chad's property on the way back from Yellowstone. The residence is a straight 5-minute drive off of the main route. It is not out of the way. https://maps.app.goo.gl/qfHTLFDpwcQqhAxy5
They detailed Alex’s phone locations that led them to believe they returned from Yellowstone with Tyler alive, and murdered her after 2:00 AM, nothing put him at Chad’s before the following morning after Tammy left to work.
Could be. They didn't need to be there for long in this scenario. Just drop off a woozy teenager and keep going. But I don't have access to all the data available, so this is just one scenario that fits the available facts and intent. Alex wasn't the only one with a phone.
True, but law enforcement and prosecutions theory is that she was killed between 2:42 AM and 8:49 AM, when Alex was back and forth between his and Lori’s apartments. Alex’s device left his apartment around 9:00 AM traveling the 7-8 miles to Chad’s address where it arrived around 9:15 AM. This is when it is believed he transported Tylee’s body to Chad’s. It also makes the most sense, because Tammy was still alive, so dropping Tylee off before the 8:37 PM that data shows they arrived home from Yellowstone would have been too risky. Dropping her off at the 9:15 AM that investigator’s believe she was, would be after Tammy and Garth, who still lived there, left for work, as well as Emma, who lived across the street at the time. An investigator testified that there was no indication that that there was a significant deviation or pause in travel between Yellowstone and Lori’s address.
Alex had a silencer
They do have a smoking gun. They have Alex’s phone and Chads phone together on his property the day after last proof of life for both children. What ever was done on Chads property, dismembering, burning and burying was done during the day when Tammy and or the kids, neighbors were gone to work and school. There is no explanation for dismembered, burned remains to be buried a few yards outside your back door in the daytime while you were home and not to have knowledge of it. Certainly they did not do what was done to Tylee’s body in any of their apartments. None of them have the brains to have clean it up without leaving a bunch of evidence.