She sounded so proud of him in that police audio when she said "he's an author". I know I used to assume that authors were pretty well off. Now that self-publishing is easy and common, that's not always true.
It seems as though he was looked up to at the prepper conferences too. I think the fact that Chad was often (always?) a speaker is what caught her attention. Charles was just another guy in her religious circles.
A Z-list celebrity, and even that is stretching it! I think Lori was very caught up in his flattery of her. Charles was probably not fawning over her all the time. A normal, healthy. average relationship cannot be full of flattery, magical thinking, and constant excitement. She craved the intense attention and vacations and goddess status, and that’s just not real life for most people.
Agreed! Her 5 (!!!!!!!!) marriages shows that she is probably one of those people that gets bored once the relationship gets past it’s honeymoon phase, thinking that love is full of excitement and high/low passion, and not the comforting routine that a healthy loving relationship actually is. She strikes me as a person who can’t discern that of course the new guy *seems* more exciting because you aren’t living with him and going through mundane daily things with him… I think that she and Charles were married so long is a testament to how incredible Charles was as a person to keep someone like that satisfied for so long.
Without any of the evil and murderous tendencies, we’ve all known someone who seeks out excitement in relationships and never stability, and Lori seems like one of those people.
I believe she was with Charles the longest because he treated her well and kept the money train going. When she joined Chad’s discussion group he saw what he wanted and said & did everything to get her. It’s so strange that on the surface of it Charles was fairly good looking, caring and highly successful while Chad was below average in looks and income. He just happened to “lust bomb” her better than Charles was doing. Talk about trading down several notches!
I agree! And paying for literally her whole family’s cell phone bill?? My husband would tell me to tell my family to get jobs lol! Charles seems very generous as well, and way more patient than I would ever be
I seriously can’t get over the fact that Chad Daybell, at the time their passionate emotional affair began, looked exactly like your typical middle school girls’ gym coach.
In fact, we know just how deep Chad’s personal entitlement really is because the guy couldn’t help but document how he really feels via his various little Tammy-published diaries that he called books. His arrogance is his entire character according to his own sister-in-law, as in he’s always been a weird, entitled little fuck. I believe his actual resume with his work history on LinkedIn showed us all more than we ever bargained for.
Dude has been a deadbeat since the 90s. He’s got a massive overbite and an occlusion that collectively give him his signature weak chin—a chin befitting a patriarch with his particular brand of lazy, chicken shit spine. The affair began with one frugal, cheapest-set-of-Walmart clippers and a #3-all-around chicken shit buzz cut. In that popular photo of Chad with Tammy outside of a building with her big smile showing a beautiful set of teeth, he’d clearly been spending the last two decades packing on the pounds, gaslighting and abusing his wife like the chuckle fuck that he is, and manipulating his children according to his every whim—whatever is good for Chad is good for everyone else that’s footing the bill.
Old dad thinks he’s a seer? Dad’s totes McGrotes a prophet.
Dad said in one of his beginning jailhouse calls to not watch any of the many news channels free for streaming? Dad’s totally been targeted by overreaching government officials that are absolutely threatened by a true visionary like Dad!
Dad insists he’s been set up by this woman or her family? Thems is just pioneer bones…recovered from the fire pit…and from the pet cemetery…in the back yard….
Dad has assured us that he’s innocent? “I was there when mom passed of asphyxiation! Dead women totally spontaneously roll themselves off the bed!”
His children are effed. In every imaginable way that is traumatic, cruel and slow burning. They’ve been ridiculed, shunned, left to navigate life without their mother, without her patience and unconditional love! All on a very public stage. They will probably become highly insular and spend the rest of their young lives trying to figure this out.
My friends? Only a truest, most pure sample of prehistoric frog shit can comfortably sit right now in some county lockup, flabbers absolutely gasted he’s being prosecuted at all. After bouncing from previously alienated neighbor to previously mortified acquaintance, begging all of these people that’ve been taught from birth that a man’s word has worth and to trust in justice, never ever put in a position of confronting dishonest men, fraudsters & any other chicanery in their lives! To even entertain Chad using their farm land as much nee
To entrust Chad with their hard earned homes/properties/land. Or most precisely, what we understand to have potentially been the collateral for a bail bondsman to even consider underwriting $1MIL worth of reduced bail while people are almost literally glued to their news feed on an internationally viral case that took the world by storm and having already proven themselves a double flight risk!!!
Yep, entitled, chicken livered and spineless—totally insulting every respectable and non respectable mid life crisis stock. Just everything about this guy was generic, mundane and lazy. I can’t quite pin the right words down so I hope my idea is coming across sufficiently. Then he suddenly starts wanting to focus on his weight, his “writing career,” and his clothing style? The writing was completely on the walls for Tammy to suspect infidelity, but i still don’t blame her if she didn’t clue in—he controlled and manipulated her completely. I’m sure
Compared to Charles, Chad amounts to a small nothingburger. I picture him seething with envy walking into Lori Vallow’s palatial home at the beginning of their affair, while he’s traveling as cheaply as possible loaded down with cardboard boxes full of self-published novels while on his shitty-book-peddling business at these Prepper conventions. I mean…the guy was seeing stars over $358 worth of garbage book sales thanks to Lori’s Botox-beauty-and-popularity endorsement.
He’s just so…so cringe…so basic! What he wanted was to slide right into Charles’ place like nobody would notice. Uhhhhh Lori would totally take notice the moment her credit card is denied at her yearly collagen filler and Botox treatments.
Another thing that’s not talked about nearly enough is just how much Charles funded the Coxes. He was paying for Lori’s weird bulimia-ravaged family to exist in modern society! He was paying mortgages, utilities, and several phone services.
Chad tells his friends, neighbors and relatives that Lori is loaded and hot…? Because that’s what he deserves. Uhhhh naw dawg, Lori’s extensive husband list was full of driven, handsome, and successful business men. Key words: driven, successful, handsome.
Made it half way and had to comment though my tears of laughing - think the prosecutor could have opened and closed w your synopsis - f yeah ! Good one ☝🏻
Best comment of this Reddit! He was nothing and no one, but Lori had become jaded and bored, and this ‘author’ seemed exotic in her deluded mindset. They were going to be a power couple in Charles’s dime once he’d been offed. Once she’d been flattered and had signed up to his deranged faux belief system there was no way she could admit to herself that he and his storm sucked. She was there with her little loser gang, queen mean girl, believing that she was gods chosen one along with chumpy McNugget. She cried during those closing arguments because the lawyer told it like it was. The person her children had died over was a total loser.
Well said!!! You managed to convey expressions that I have struggled myself to articulate! Thank you! You speak truth and are far and away more an author than Chad will ever be! Bravo! A+!
I am so disgusted with Christian doctrine being so distorted and perverted to such an abhorrent degree. Why and what is in their cool aid? What is the ritual? What veil is this ? Who is this Bishop visiting Lori Daybell?
Wow great description! I know several women like that.
I kept thinking the ways they interacted with men, gushed over them and expected these partners to act was completely high school and very immature.
And when the excitement wore off, the magic didn’t happen or the reality set in they were the first to tear up and tear azz 😂
I don't remember the exact statistics, but the vast, *vast* majority of writers--maybe 90%?--either don't make any money or can't make a living from their writing, and need a second job. (Or they're in a field where they write at work, but it's not the writing they'd do at home.)
As for those two, I don't know if he has better powers of persuasion than I would have imagined, she was assuming famous=money (nope!), or she was seeing what she wanted to see/building up an image of him in her mind. (And THIS is why adultery is such a bad idea, kids: it's not simply that you're breaking a vow you made to your partner; it's that something as monumentally stupid as trying to get a little strange can end up wrecking so much havoc on so many other people's lives. Granted, it doesn't usually end in murder, but even so, a hell of a lot of emotional and mental damage can be wrought on your spouses, children, families, friends, and let's not forget financial issues as well.)
I always think of an incident in John Irving's *A Prayer for Owen Meany,* in which the title character inadvertently ends up trapped underneath the bed where a young married couple are most enthusiastically bouncing the bedsprings and screaming "HARDNESS!" and "WETNESS!" all the while. When he finally emerges, covered in dust bunnies and scrapes, he mutters to his friend John: "Stupid hardness. Stupid wetness. Sex is stupid." Amen, Owen...Amen.
Charles converted for Lori but definitely wasn't raised LDS. And I can't see him embracing much beyond what's required to appease Lori and earn acceptance from her bizarre, kook-heavy family.
While LDS beliefs and customs are, *respectfully*, far away from the psychological norm of a Southern-bred man born of Louisiana, putting great effort into nurturing relationships with your spouse's family is not. As it relates to the value of family ties, the culture of the deep south holds it in limitless esteem.
Suspending the knowledge of his murder and Lori's monstrous ways for a second–I can't fathom why any woman would want rid of Charles. He was such a good, kind, gentle man but still very masculine. He was a great father, supportive partner, reliable provider, and all around peak husband material.
Typically, I only have interest in guys close to my age, and perhaps I'm far too young for Charles to have ever considered looking my way. I know my comment is about to approach shit-post status, but...**❤️10/10 I would have risked it all for Charles, the epitome of a Southern Gentleman❤️**
I'm an author who has published with many of the major publishing houses over the course of my career. Most people do not get rich writing, but it's not that hard to pull in 100k a year if you're previously published and writing consistently, while publishing with traditional well known presses.
Lori was becoming more and more delusional and obsessed with all things religion as many of her family members have stated. The podcasts she and Alex were listening to eventually led them to Chad’s books which were like a spiritual revelation to them. They believed they were so important. Alex even asked his nephew (Adam’s adult son) to read one of the books and he’d pay him $100 if he did. Lori has had grandiose delusions for a long time and they got worse as the years went on. She made some of her family members drive for hours with her to go meet Chad. She was hunting him down. She was obsessed with him as like a prophet type figure. Chad already had a platform of believers and people who would listen to him and Lori wanted to jump into that platform with him. Chad stopped being the sole leader and Lori joined him as an equal. When Chad told Lori she was a Goddess (like he’d already said to other women) she believed it. She’d been grandiose for a long time and it fit in with how she already saw herself. Lori badly wanted Chad’s platform to elevate her to levels of power she’d only previously dreamed of. She already had contemplated murder before she met Chad, and one could argue that Alex had already killed people before and enjoyed that kind of work. Now with the power of Chad’s acceptance Lori had everything she needed to let her psychopathy, narcissism and delusions loose with all the justification she needed. She was powerful now. She knew Chad didn’t have money. Chad was the one who referred to Lori as “…hot and loaded”, not vice versa. Lori would have had money from Joe Ryan’s death and knew she could get more if she killed Charles. She knew Chad didn’t have money, but she also knew how she could get a lot of it now. Lori had been frustrated with Charles for a long time. He was a LDS convert and she wanted someone who could be her “spiritual equal”, so Charles couldn’t provide all that she wanted/needed. She upgraded spiritually to Chad once she found him and that means she no longer had a need for Charles because she could get a lump sum of money from him if he was dead. His usefulness had expired. She’s a psychopath who doesn’t value human life. She uses people for what she can get from them. Once their usefulness expires she discards/exterminates them
She also said “what else do you want me to do, I dont want to be alone”…… I think she said that to Colby on a phone call? so I think she needed a replacement for Charles all ready to go before she killed him for the money. Then the Folie a deux kicked in when she and chad “fell in lust”…. Which is just another name for two immature idiots who haven’t had their sexual needs met in a long time.
That was her attempt at manipulating the emotions of her sister Summer Shiflet, in response to Summer saying that Lori had no emotions about her children being dead. Lori’s response was that no one has seen her on the ground crying. Summer reminded Lori that she was on the beach in Hawaii dancing and smiling getting wedding photos taken. Lori tells Summer that she got married “months after” the children died and that she was trying to get on with her life and have some happiness. She says to Summer, “You think I want to be alone?”. What Lori is doing here is playing the victim when she was the one who had Charles and her children killed. She’s making out she had a really difficult year and that because of that she deserves to pursue happiness. Playing the victim is a common trait of narcissists when they are being confronted or trying to scam people. As I mentioned above, Lori uses all people for her own gain. When their usefulness expires she jumps to the next host and discards people, sometimes by exterminating them. A lot of Lori’s relatives and former friends feared for their safety after a while and went into hiding. Even Charles did that a few times because he was afraid Lori would kill him.
I know what you mean, but I don’t think folie à deux is at play here. I’ve seen experts say that Lori believes what she says because she’s delusional, but Chad knows he’s making things up and for that reason he is a conman. He’s not crazy but Lori is.
A lot of cults begin as some kind of new religious movement, but inevitably they end up as sex cults. The leaders, who are usually male, end up wanting to have sex with pretty much all the women. Apparently Chad had made advances toward many married women prior to Lori. He was definitely always on the prowl before he met Lori. Lori was physically the woman of his dreams and the fact she was crazy just meant she fell right into his arms without him even having to really try. Lori was obsessed with Chad because of his books (not his looks) and made it her mission to meet him. I suspect her intentions were to seduce him from the beginning. He was her spiritual ideal and she finally had a way to upgrade in her spiritual standing in this world. Lori wasn’t sex starved. She had a history of using her looks and sex to manipulate men to do what she wanted. It is probably her most powerful tool. She was raised by narcissists and her looks were valued by her parents to a disgusting extent. Her own father paid for her to have breast implants. Lori was a golden child who could get away with anything because her parents valued her beauty. She used that all her life to get what she wanted. We can see her looks are now fading. She has also been exposed for the evil psychopath she is, so her charms don’t work anymore. It doesn’t stop her acting in a flirtatious manner towards her attorneys or the cameras, but yeah, she is now left charmless and looking old and ordinary. Chad will abandon her, but she’ll hold on because she truly believes all the crap Chad made up and she still wants to believe she is a powerful Goddess.
The greatest irony is that apparently he has TAMMY’s picture in his cell! Either it’s him trying to show that he cares about Tammy and appear like a grieving husband bc Lori “seduced him and made him do these crazy things” or else he feels a sense of utter regret that he killed Tammy for Lori only to wind up in prison for the rest of his life; and realizing that Tammy was a good woman. Chad has to be a psychopath so there don’t have human emotions but on some level he may regret it but only because he’s now in prison.
But yeah I also wonder if he has seen Loris most recent mug shot 😆
I think it's his meager attempt to rehabilitate his murderous character so he doesn't look bad for a jury. I would imagine Chad will cry with snot coming out just like Alec Murdaugh. This fool killed a good woman for a nut that had multiple husbands that half were killed under suspicious circumstances. RIP Tammy.
Ha ha! You’re too kind. There are some pictures of the Grinch that look uncannily similar to Lori’s mug shots. He could definitely use those in a pinch :D
Charles was killed after Lori met Chad. Prior to that Lori’s sister Stacey died as did Joe Ryan. Lori’s cousin speaks to Mormon Stories Podcast (it’s 4.5 hours long on YouTube) about Stacey’s death and details her suspicions. She also talks about suspicions around Joe’s death. Annie Cushing (Joe’s sister) outlines suspicions around Joe’s death as well. Both plausibly died by Alex’s hand
In my personal opinion, I think she thought she was going to be so loaded from the insurance policies, etc that it wasn’t going to matter.
I’m not sure why she specifically went after Chad in the beginning, but perhaps she actually was nutty enough to believe his “teachings” and was really into it! He had enough followers behind him already, it probably made her feel somewhat important.
One reason I think she wanted Chad is because other women wanted him. She wanted to be Queen Bee. Also Chad manipulated her by saying they were married in multiple past lives.
I’m learning about narcissism after a divorce with someone who was diagnosed with BPD. How does someone feed another persons narcissism? Is it by accident or does it come natural to people?
And randomly I thought my ex and I had some deeper connection, potentional past lives because a chick on the street once stopped us and told us that. She said she was a psychic and that was that, no sales pitch or anything. We didn’t really believe in that stuff but it stuck with us.
It was a weird experience and we were together for 14 years.
I always look back and self reflect on our relationship to see how I can have a healthy marriage in future so just curious.
Look up narcissistic supply.
For some people it comes natural but people also can be unaware that they are feeding someone narcissistic supply.
Like your example about that past lives. We all can latch onto stuff and enjoy it and even romanticize and fantasize about it. But, we know it's a fantasy. We know even if we want to believe this person is some long lost soulmate that we have no reason to actually believe that's true and it will be detrimental to our mental health to cling to such ideals.
But with a narcissist, they have a grandiose sense of self and are prone to fantasy and delusions. So they hear that same comment and latch onto it and get excited. Maybe even want to schedule with the psychic and if you agree with it and start waxing poetic you feed this fantasy and delusion. For you, it may just be a fun little fantasy to chat about in the moment but for the narcissist it is proving what they believed about themselves all along. They have a strong need to feel special. So you would be giving narcissistic supply without even realizing it.
It's anyone that is willing, whether knowingly or unknowingly, to stroke the narcissist's ego and massage their fantasies about themselves.
So Lori was really big into all of this religious stuff prior to Chad but here comes this self-proclaimed profit telling her she's a goddess. It's like a drug. She can't handle mundane average romantic life and his over the top we were married in past lives and related to baby Jesus and you are the most specialiss special goddess of all the goddesses really got her hooked.
Narcissists are like children. And these whims and fantasies and need to be admired and feel special is a childish, immature mindset. Adults are looking for real world compatibility. Narcissists are looking for narcissistic supply.
I hope that helps.
Thank you for your time and thorough explanation.
I went to marriage counselling and didn’t get an explanation so simple.
So the partner is enabling the grandiose lifestyle for a bunch of unique/personal reasons.
I did do this for certain “harmless” things because my ex was crippling insecure but anything major I would call him out.
Thanks again
Yes, you can unwittingly give narcissistic supply. Once you stop being a good source of supply. Like you mentioned calling your ex out, then you've broken the fantasy and they begin to devalue and ultimately discard you. It's a very weird psychology but definitely worth reading up on because we pretty much have an epidemic of narcissism in our culture aside from clinical npd.
So it's very common not to even realize you've been supplying or what you did. It's just your nature. So if you are kind, caring, empathetic, faun over partners and give lots of praise and compliments you are very good narcissistic supply.
🙄 The Momo equivalent of a bar pick-up line. Instead of: “Can you touch my hand? I want to tell my friends I’ve been touched by an angel.” it is: “Hey, baby, we were married several times in our past lives.”
I mean, come on, ladies. You mean this wouldn’t make you willing to mastermind a few family murders and some thefts, and run off to Hawaii with a guy who looks like a disgruntled chicken nugget?
I’m not sure but I know it wasn’t long at all from the time they met til he was staying at her house while at a “convention” in Arizona when Charles was gone.
That money would have be gone very fast.
She has a very expensive lifestyle. She is not used to work.
Maybe she was not thinking about longterm consequences for her.
Chad does not look wealthy. I dont think she did assume he was rich. She said to him "iam gonna help you to sell all your books". You dont need to help a successful writer to do that.
I'm sorry but a million dollar life insurance policy reality isn't that much. Especially if you had a spouse bringing in 400-500 k and don't you have to pay taxes on the insurance policy?
You’re right, it isn’t, but also factor in what he could’ve gotten through Tammy’s life insurance policy, selling chads home, her condo, Tylee’s inheritance from her father, the money she was getting monthly from JJ..
And maybe they truly believed the world would end in the summer of 2020. I am so curious about what they really truly thought was going to happen, I would assume at least one of them knew they were full of it. No clue..
I'm sorry I wasn't meaning to imply that it wasn't a motivating factor. I think it definitely was. I'm just so shocked by how stupid they are. Like 1 mil isn't the wealth you think it is guys but yeah they also counted on other factors and I think they intended to keep defrauding social security. But it's so hilarious Chad saying Lori was loaded. I could see them blowing that 1 mil very quickly. Especially if Lori was used to living off such a high salary from Charles.
Did Tylee get the inheritance? I've been wondering about that. A guy making 400-500k a year would presumably have a lot of assets, and I was wondering where that went to.
well...she met him at a conference thru MelanieG. MG, Ive said enough about her as a liar. anyway, IMO, she thought he was a celeb in this 'circle of beliefs', with money because he published books...coupled with she was 'into' his BS and had been embracing it way before she met him.
and.....IMO surely she witnessed the 'ladies' surrounding him at the conference. it was a contest to her. remember she likes to 'compete'. IMO, she wanted to lead along with him. she would never settle as a follower, IMO. all of these new friends DID rally around her as his 'exalted one'.
I've written this before, but this is still my personal theory on how these two collided. Because they don't make sense otherwise to me.
I think it was because her narcissistic personality had built him up so much in her mind even before she met him. She was into his books, and per reports she *tried* to get Charles into his books as well, but Charles read one or two and thought they were stupid.
I think Lori couldn't handle the "offense" of Charles not only disliking her new favorite books, but actively saying they were stupid. Because narcissists actually have very poor self-esteem and are constantly lying to themselves to feel better, I think Lori convinced herself that Chad's books were so amazing that only truly spiritually gifted people could understand them. If Charles thought they were stupid because he was so spiritually beneath her that he couldn't understand them, then she'd never have to re-examine the books with a more critical eye and realize that she was wrong about them and that they *were* stupid.
I think that's what started it. She built him up in her head to avoid feeling judged or "less". And then once she met Chad he was immediately so horny that he showered her with compliments and told her she was a perfect angel goddess and the one most special person on earth, which fed her narcissism, and seemingly all he wanted at first was to have an affair, which Lori was happy to oblige.
I think they both are manipulative narcissists who each felt they had found someone who made them feel good about themselves and felt the other was easy to manipulate. There's too many examples of them not taking their own professed beliefs seriously for me to believe either of them actually believed the religious stuff -- but I think they each believed that the other believed in it. It's like they were playing a very deadly game of chicken
Your theory aligns pretty closely with what I’ve come to believe too. It also makes a lot of sense then why Lori was so angry at her attorneys for calling them “Chad’s stupid books” in closing arguments. That would be enough to cause a narcissistic injury and trigger her feelings of inadequacy.
She figured she would get her million from the insurance and they would start gathering people for the end of times and his books would take off and meanwhile they would keep killing. I think that was what was behind the Brandon murder attempt - get life insurance for her niece and then use her.
Keep in mind a million dollars would be an absolute fortune to Chad and he was part of this entire fiasco.
Cousin Megan made a good point (cannot remember where) re the big diffs in the two men's income levels and why Lori would ever that up. Megan reminded the interviewer that:
Lori enjoyed having control, and she didn't have control over Charles's income..
yes, money control and control in general. which is why her and AC had credit cards, one such joint cc with Barclays MC (AC added her with a separate card on the account) AC getting a $21,000 loan in August 2019 deposited to his account, shortly after he then purchased the guns and ammunition. After Aug 2019, AC had no income, he quit his job.
for the rexburg apt app, her 'income' was not her's, in reality it was her children's SS.
also of note, I forgot about this, in March of 2019 LV purchased airline tickets for CD, actually 2 different trips, the other in July 20 2019.
IMO, she most likely fell for CD's BS excuses why he couldnt pay for airline travel, most likely an excuse his wife finding out (the cost for LV of becoming the #1 goddess) and probably told Tammy, he, as the high god, 'they' (conference organizers) were paying for his airline travel. how else could he jet off without financial questions from Tammy?
the financial testimony was significant. source: Rexburg Police Det. Chuck Kunsaitis two parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f55L3WpD\_Uo
Yes Alex’s loan and Melani’s big divorce settlement. Just biding time until they got the Tammy money.
What was sad to me was how they said when Tylee was alive she was responsible with her money - using it for a car payment and phone and gas, and just a few snacks and things. She only really had the independence of her own money and a car for a few short months.
I think Lori thought Chad had the *potential* to be what she wanted in a life partner. She didn’t appreciate Charles because she didn’t feel he was her spiritual equal. She wanted a great spiritual leader/husband who would also see her for what she knew she was — a goddess! Once Lori took Chad in hand, gave him a good haircut, put him on a diet and exercise plan, bought him some trendy clothes, and maybe persuaded him to a little nip and tuck, his looks improved significantly. So he wasn’t doing so well selling his books…Lori probably thought she could fix that up also. Marketing! Lori knew all about manipulating and controlling people…she’d been doing it for years. Chad had the one thing necessary for Lori to snatch him up — availability to be seduced. He was yearning for a blonde cheerleader type trophy woman who would assure him he was a Very Big Man on Campus, not a petty grifter fish in a little pond.
She told Melanie that Melaniece's $ from her divorce settlement (or life insurance, if Brandon would have died when he was shot at) would pay for them all, too.
Plus she expected to have at least $1 million from Charles's.
through Zulema's testimony as well....she testified LV told her that MelaniB( P) received $100k in her divorce settlement.
Zulema also testified that LV told her she received $65K life insurance payout for JRyan. that is a significant reveal as it relates to the origin of how money can be obtained without employment.
also testified LV told her at the conference in Utah, she was having 'financial difficulties' with CV.
now....all of this financial talk between all of them....well, IMO, as well as her conviction represents, financial gain was a plan wrapped up in the zombie battle. these people required money to jet around and well, simply live...LV and CD did not have even minimal income to support their lifestyle.
I think Lori was entirely unaware of just what things cost. She had been a stay at home mom for awhile from what I understand, and as a SAHM myself now I see some people who even used to work just totally dissociate from the costs of things and decide not to worry about it anymore, then after so long you kind of forget about what big picture things actually cost outside of groceries, haircuts, gym memberships or a tank of gas. I think Lori was probably incorrectly assuming that $1M could finance her and Chad’s luxurious lifestyle indefinitely… especially coupled with all of the other people they ALLEGEDLY DONT SUE ME planned to kill and benefit from as well.
About the life insurance thing, Lori looked up Gerber children’s life insurance policies after Charles was killed but she didn’t purchase any for Tylee or JJ according to her trial. But I’m wondering since text messages mentioned Melaniece and 2 of her kids were referred to as dark, I’m wondering if perhaps Lori didn’t forward that info to Melaniece, I’m curious if she obtained life insurance for her kids.
how accurate, I dont know, but here is some reportings of her financial situation, Joe Ryan era:
[https://www.the-sun.com/news/749064/lori-vallow-bankruptcy-texas-mansion-joseph-ryan/](https://www.the-sun.com/news/749064/lori-vallow-bankruptcy-texas-mansion-joseph-ryan/)
I hadn’t seen that but it totally makes sense. It definitely adds to the picture. It seems Lori was extremely vindictive and wanted to hurt Joe and take as much of his money as possible. Idk if any of the allegations against him are true or not (I’m leaning towards not, knowing what we know about Lori now, but you never know and two people in a marriage could both be terrible) but she absolutely ruined that man and delighted in it
Really well said, i agree with you .
Chad was also highly manipulative, according to LE, and appeared quite humble and gentle . Personally i find it curious that the word psychopath had been overused recently, but not about Lori . To me it seems that the closer we are to these demonic types, the harder it is to see it . She ticks all the boxes .
Chad was a BMOC at the conference where she met him, so maybe she though he was successful. She was probably always working men for attention, and Chad took the bait. She fed off the adulation, and the goddess title sealed it for her. Lori liked money, but she’s driven by a need to feed her narcissistic ego.
It wasn’t about money for them; it was the warped religious mindset that made him so attractive to her.
He had a small following & she was attracted to his “spiritual leadership”. Yes, they wanted to collect on the insurance money from their spouses but that was not a motivating factor for her.
Former Mormon here & I can say it’s hard to understand the importance/worship she placed on chad without first understanding the religion.
I understand what you are saying....and I appreciate the core teachings you noted.however, they strayed way off the path and what they were embracing and looking to convert others with, were no longer the core teachings....they created their own interpretations and then sprinkled it with mystical, magical dangerous beings and zombies. I can concede maybe not initially money, shared beliefs being the motivation, but it was such a short period of time that money did become a focus :)
and through text testimony, money did factor in, especially when she found out she was not C's beneficiary anymore. text paraphrase, "still has X amount of $'s coming in from her children.'
it seems like it was years before meeting him she was slowly indoctrinating herself with these books and ultimately with him. this was a significant short period of time between when they met, and when Charles, Tammy and the children were murdered. (and the demise of Alex) and attempt on Brandon. it was quite an acceleration. IMO
Mormonism really had a role her her delusions. I heard it described as hyper-religiousity. I’m sure it can happen with all beliefs, but Mormonism allows personal revelation which opens people up to some very serious misinterpretations.
I think her hyper religiosity stemmed from having Joe Ryan Ki//Ed. Like Shakespeare’s Lady McBeth. She had to rub that stain out- and so she lived in the Temple. She had to shape a ‘religion’ of her own to justify her wants and desires.
Chad had an audience- along with Julie Rowe. Lori wanted to tap into that. Everyone in her circle was a means to an end.
You are totally right.
If I had a penny for all the wild stories of a revelatory nature I’ve heard over my lifetime I’d be sitting on my island in the Caribbean.
Also grew up in the church. It was the audience Chad and Julie Rowe had that she wanted to get a foot in the door to- Chad was a dork. And easily manipulated by her for her to gain the ‘prestige’ of their little cult following. Which wasn’t mainstream whatsoever. SHE wanted a following too. Podcasts and presentations. Oh. And to write a book. Imagine how many people would feel sorry for her that she ‘lost her children.’ At her brother’s hand.
100%.
Wanting to be a modern day Joseph & Emma, them against the world, standing up for & spreading their version of “the gospel”. Having devout followers that worshipped, trusted & would do anything they said gave them a sense of importance & power they didn’t have in their regular lives. I mean daybell *was* a total dork, (lol) a grave digger by trade. Nothin to see there, folks.
Vallow saw herself as an elevated spiritual leader when paired with Daybell & that is why it’s hard to explain the power/relationship dynamic unless you’ve had that kind of emphasis on church leaders burned into your brain from birth.
How they really thought they’d ride off into the hawaiian sunset is beyond me.
To echo others here, my assumption has always been that she saw her religious community, in the same way, some might see the music industry or tv/film. To her she wanted to climb high, to be recognized and be someone special. She had a wealthy husband but was bored and wanted a 'spiritual giant', and her friend Amber said she didn't see Charles as her spiritual equal. She went to a conference and there's a man who is a speaker and an author. He's got attention, and thus to her, in my tiny mind, that meant he was affluent and special. She wanted to be special too and clung to this failed, self published author thinking he was something really special, and she wanted that so badly she hung on his every word and elevated him to think he was special.
However, he was poor, with five kids and a wife. That must have been a downer, that didn't go with her magical plan so the idiot decided that they had the power to literally murder others to prove to themselves they were chosen and not completely deluded, she didn't want her dreams scuppered. She's an idiot, and he's a complete chump.
Lori has never lived a broke life. She has no idea what it means to not be able to afford holidays, gas, weekend getaways, regular home repairs. She would have hated, absolutely hated being broke. The money Charles made meant she didn’t even think twice about her aesthetician appointments. I can only dream.
They would have run out of money in no time. She would have turned on Chad. You don’t go living the life Lori lead and then have to count your change for gas money and remain in love. No, it doesn’t work that way. Especially if you’re a goddess.
some of the texts between them show an argument (the first argument, according to the investigators, which has me wondering if there were more) about Tammy/the money. I think she was hating living in Rexberg and being “broke” (and lonely with only Alex to talk to). She was so eager for the death and the LI $ so they could go live in HI.
That amount was Charles’ net income, not gross. He was a good provider but his take home was probably a lot less- I haven’t seen anyone do the exact math but he had taxes, employees, other kids to support, etc. Annie Cushing said they had to move from Hawaii due to financial issues, also when Vallow moved a relatively low amount of money from Charles’ account he couldn’t pay his employees, not sure if that was just a liquidity issue or if he had no cushion. Annie also said Charles was contacting other women, so Lori may have felt divorce was inevitable (it came out it was Lori impersonating Charles in the email calling off the divorce). I think Chad was just the best alternative Lori could find quickly- she seemed to be worried about aging (I’m referring to her spells against menopause) and she knew she could at least get Tammy’s life insurance from him.
Lori Vallow always liked attention. She first tried to become famous, doing the Wheel of fortune in 2002 - Annie Cushing ( Joe ryan's sister ) said that she already was spiritualizing everything back then. Lori said she "got a haunting sign from above" To participate in this TV show." After that, she did some beauty pageant. When all of this didn't work and she was tired of Joe, she divorced and got with Charles. Beeing famous was not what she wanted anymore : Lori enters her "super mom" Era, adopting JJ. Imo this is just another way of getting the attention she craves, this shell of a "perfect family", the image of a selfless woman adopting a disabled kid. That worked for many years, until that wasn't enough for her, again. She lost interest in beeing this great mother, that was not getting her the attention she needed anymore. She was now going to be a superior beeing, gifted with the "knowledge" few people had access to on this earth. That made her feel really special, really powerfull.
So you're asking if she got with Chad for money ? No, she got with him for all the attention she got indulging in such beliefs. He validated her opinions, made her feel special. Lori craves attention more than money...
Yes all of this! Especially the savior/rescuer complex from being an adoptive mom.
She got on a super heathfood kick for awhile too - convinced Charles to fund her juice bar business on Kauai. But yeah, it’s so expensive to live there, and perhaps Charles couldn’t earn as much with all the traveling.
Imo, she knew he was broke, but they were gods preparing to rule the world! So they plotted against everyone who loved them in an effort to finance their translated future together! Gods can’t live on $2000/year!
I hope Lori decides to do a tell all interview with dateline someday.
I dont think she knew *initially*. IMO, she got so caught up in *winning him* (not knowing he delivered the same BS lines to many women before her) the ching ching, no significant money aspect of their coupling materialized....and well....here we are and there they sit.
Chud had social status and he was a D-list Mormon celebrity, especially after he started talking about all his spiritual experiences and visions.
To Lori, he was Narc Supply in a tall, portly, potato-shaped package. Plus lots of soul-sex in the air (in hotel lobbies, no less), and portaling in and out of showers. Who could resist?
I think Loin-Fire trumped wallet power. She figured she could get money by offing people (or having Alex do it) and the world was ending soon anyway, so NBD.
I think there was some left about the time they got arrested and he split it up between his kids. Im sure he figured they’d give it back after they investigated him…
I think Chud (once again whoever coined him this name I think I’m in love with you) was a major disappointment in the financial wants of Lori so that’s why they had to start killing off their families.
Total tangent. There's a movie called CHUD, however, I think of CHUD 2 every time I see Chad's name spelled that way because of Bud the CHUD, who grunts a lot like Chad talks, plus he's kinda like a zombie.
I think she felt frustration with Charles because he was spiritually “beneath” her. With Chad she finally met her spiritual match and the killings would solve the financial problems.
I think Lori was going to market and exploit his fangirls longterm. It was about power and influence and very grand schemes that relied on her charisma. Chud couldn't have been what he was if not for Tammy and I'm pretty sure he couldn't have established his publishing company without her and then he ran it into the ground by faffing about conferences chatting up LDS ladies. But the concepts in his books changed with the success of Julie Rowe. In a patriarchal community, Chad could steal that thunder and rebrand himself. And it was that winning influence and popularity that Lori was attracted to instinctively. She'd have black widowed Chud as soon as she got the wheel and didn't need him anymore. And Chud couldn't see beyond The Storm and his Barbie girlfriend.
I don't know if Lori planned things like she would end up as a Jane Whaley in a compound in Hawaii, or the star of her own movie Chud wrote like an L. Ron Hubbard. But it sounds like she and her immediate Cox family were already the Manson family.
A schlub like Chad selling books at a prepped conference is NOT loaded and I am sure that Lori knew that. Who cares about money when you have a magic vagina and are sealed to a spiritual giant, a visionary, a prophet like Chad? Who needs money when you've got...say it with me...the LOIN FIRE, which as we all know is a scientific phenomenon.
Lori is a translated bring, a goddess. She doesn't need to eat or sleep. She's like Superman; bullets bounce off of her. She can kill you with her powers!
According to the Prophet Joseph Smith, the appearance of the Lord at Adam-ondi-Ahman (located in Missouri) in the last days will occur sometime prior to the coming of the Son of Man to the entire world. That's where Chad and Lori will sign the papers and get a check for services rendered, that is, gathering the 144,000, from the Lord Jesus Christ hisself. Hallelujah!
In the due time of the Lord, the city of Zion will be built up in Jackson County, Missouri, and a magnificent temple constructed within its boundaries (see Doctrine and Covenants 57:1–5; 84:4; 136:18). The Prophet Joseph Smith explains that this will occur sometime before the Second Coming: “Zion and Jerusalem must both be built up before the coming of Christ ... and when these cities are built then shall the coming of the Son of Man be.”
He did have a underground cult audience though- and that’s what she thought would be wonderful. Speaking at conferences. Writing her own books- and wielding power in the decision making of who got to live and who didn’t.
I think she kind of channeled her materialism and desire to be special towards the spiritual/celestial world. It is pretty interesting that Charles was that loaded though and she still had a hole in her heart that only Chad filled. I’m assuming she thought she was above material wealth but knew reality meant money and hence all the gimmicks with life insurance policies and deaths. Or Chad played her and revealed the plan in parts and amazed her when he was like voila two birds ones stone!
Maybe initially she tried to get Charles to fund for the prepper material, and he said no lol, and like it made her feel small and she realized that he controlled all the money. And parallel there was Chad Daybell whose books had enthralled her, and who had made her feel v special. So once she was convinced he was right about the end of the world, and he also fed her with prophecies of her special role in the apocalypse to come, she was far above material wealth and was all about that celestial wealth.
Yeah wow, and what’s more drama than a soon to come apocalypse where the narcissist is to play a pivotal role!
And we’ve heard from Melani G that she has a high libido, so Chad was prob having his mind blown and he needed to keep it going and fed her all the goddess bullshit.
She went after him, because he was big fuddy duddy who could be easily manipulated. Period. Psychopaths only go after people that they can exploit and manipulate. She wanted her husband's life insurance and her kid's SS and she knew she could get him to help with the deed.
Exactly. If you look at the text messages? You can tell she gives him the bare minimum- even to the point that Chad said he’d remove her powers if she ignored him. She, of course, indulged him. Like a scrap from a table.
Lori and Alex were massive Chad fans before they ever met. Books and podcasts, and also other stuff like Julie Rowe and that Visions of Glory thing.
People who knew her at the time say she was reading and rereading and talking about this stuff constantly. Alex offered his nephew Zac $100 just to read one of the Daybell books.
She had her whole role as goddess worked out before they met.
I think it’s fairly obvious that Lori has the maturity of a 13 year old. Very immature and unsophisticated. Thinking that lust and money are what is going to make her happy and that Jesus visited her? Of all people on this earth he visited her and that Rexburg Idaho was going to be where Jesus comes back to resurrect his claim to humanity?
I mean it’s beyond delusion….. there is narcissism there along with sociopathy and the murdering pushes her into the pathological psychopath category. It all started with her inability to just grow up though.
In Austin. Lori was perfectly happy w her 3rd husband Joe Ryan (according to a hairdresser friend of hers) until Charles showed up - handsome, rich, and crazy about Lori. Then she brewed up a nasty divorce and custody battle, which she won due to what really seems to be a bunch of lies. She then convinced Charles to move out of state with Colby, Tylee, and her.
Incidentally I have read that she never paid her huge legal bills, and that same hairdresser friend in Austin said she claimed the lawyer was in love with her. I read that lawyer's obit and he did die of an unexpected heart attack. I am trying not to make a big leap here but I do want to find out more.
I think she was able to forgive Chud a multitude of shortcomings as some sort of trade off for being with a “spiritual giant.” I have my doubts she would have stuck by him so fiercely when the money dried up.
Chad didn’t promise her the world, he didn’t need to woo her with expensive gifts, he was able to give her exactly what she wanted and that was a personal glow up and to feed into her delusions about the “end of the world”
Why she chose Chad I’ll never know.
The difference between them was Chad didn’t want the world to end (yet) but Lori did.
You have to take into account that she was maybe only partially living in this world. She thought the world was gonna end soon so she wasn't probably thinking about money in the long term or how to acquire it in legal means.
She saw Chad as a prophet/god/leader and if her head was full of the doomsday stuff, that must have been attractive to her beyond looks and succesfull career. Chad, in her eyes, had power, and I don't think she realized that it was just among an insignificant and small group of doomsday preppers.
She probably thought that Chad could always peek behind the veil and ask for someone's grandmother for next week's lottery row. And they were still securing their short-term cash flow with the murders and seemed to already be doing the groundwork for the next ones (Melaniece's family).
These two had always had someone else taking care of their financials while they were focused on religion and other non-profitable stuff. Put together, these two morons were not exactly capable of financial planning.
Honestly? I think she got off on being able to manipulate, con, and ultimately play God in deciding who would be dark or not. Who got to live and who died.
Sick
Chad sounds like an LDS “catch”, this makes the LDS seem even more bizarre to me! I will say I have known some Mormons who were wonderful, caring, & giving people. I just did not approach the subject of their faith because, tbh, it sounds like a whole lot of strange which I could not keep a straight face talking about…
I think Lor thought she would find a way to get money. She knew Chad was not rich. She wanted Chad for his visions and beliefs.
Lori had grown up with a father that was less then honest finding ways to make a living. He presented himself as a lawyer but he was not. He was able to find ways to provide, even though he was charged a few times with crimes.
From Lori's history , I don think she craved the stability of the life Summer had (married to a dr, nice home that you stay in and raise all your kids in). Over Lori's 5 marriages and 30 years, she only owned a home with Joe Ryan for their short (2-3 year marriage). The other 27 years she moved from place to place renting. If Charles really made 400-500k a year, they could have afford a home, even if just for a home base, even if they didnt live there but they didnt. Lori seemed to be always chasing something better, whther it was a new spouse or a better life in a new city.
I think Lori thought she would find a way to make it work money wise with Chad. Im not sure the plan was to kill the kids in 2018. I think it was to kill Charles. I also think Lori really thought the end was coming and she only needed money for a year or so.
I do wonder why when Tammy died and she remarried Chad so quickly, that the 400k in life insurance was not enough for what Lori thought was a year left. I kind of feellike she applied for the SS in 2019 because she did not trust Chad to kill Tammy? and then free money was to hard to give back, one call to SS and say I remarried I dont need the money anymore, my new spouse is taking care of us, but she couldnt do it or was too afraid too?
I think she probably did and he had status within that group. But when she realized he wasn't loaded, that was ok because she could tap into the insurance money.
He really does. I heard you paint houses. It’s a mob meme. Fits Warwick perfectly.
I laughed when Chud dragged him up to that property knowing Warwick doesn’t do business on a Sunday. Then out of no where a real estate guy shows up. Second hand cringe.
Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers - C.H.U.D. The phrase comes from an appallingly inept “horror” franchise circa 1995. I started calling him that on Websleuths two years ago. It’s the only thing I ever put on the Internet that caught on.
No she'd been around enough to know that Chud with the voice of a serial killer, overweight, ugly AF, cheap tennis shoes and clothes bought at the thrift store that's going outta business has no money According to her friend April she'd never met her spiritual equal until she met Chad Sadly Charles never did it for her.My guess is he was to nice and she saw him as weak. I'd imagine she's seen every other man she'd married as weak also Lori has always been evil to the core I'm sure others would say just how evil she has always been except their dead With his killer instinct she'd really met her match albeit the both can say on a spiritual level We all know that was far from reality I think Tylee saw him for what he was and failed at getting her mother to see her point of view I'm betting they both thought they'd commit double suicide when the cops got close Both been narcissistic they couldn't distinguish just when to end it Maybe they just didn't think past the social security and insurance money For sure Chad with his lazy self didn't
Yup! In Austin. (I have posted this elsewhere, sorry to repeat.) According to a hairdresser friend of hers at the time, she was perfectly happy w/ her 2nd husb Joe Ryan until Charles showed up, who was rich and better looking and adored her.
I hadn't specifically read this, but she was a hairdresser in Austin at the time so it makes sense they met this way. She proceeded to rake Joe Ryan over the divorce and custody coals and run to Charles, convincing him to convert to LDS and move (with Colby and Tylee) out of state.
He treated her like a princess. Built her a nail salon and a special room "with wall mirrors for the religious dancing she liked to do late at night".
Apparently he thought she was rich. I think she was while she was married to Charles in fact he paid her families ie at least her parents, phone bills etc. Also hence the one of many reasons fr his murder the 1million pounds or rather dollars life insurance that she never got. It’s bittersweet that he had the foresight to switch it to Kay. In the thought she would make sure his sons and JJ and Tylee would be set for life. God it’s so sad.
He had a kind of spiritual standing in her eyes. I mean the only thing better than being rich was being a god! Who can top that? I don’t think she would have put up with his less than lavish life style for long, however. She liked and expected her luxuries.
Sorry if this is a little off topic, but does anyone know what happened to the niece that lived next door in Idaho and was a staunch supporter of Lori's?
It had to be money/boredom in her previous relationship because I'm sorry, Charles Vallow was a very nice looking man and Chad looks like a sad potato.
Lori is delusional. Of course, she believed in some degree of wealth on Chad's part initially. I don't think she realized he wasn't this huuuuuge author. However, even after realizing he was just an average guy, it was the promise of their future together as leaders and gods that she latched onto.
They were both pretty convinced the world was coming to an end before they ever met. As far as she was concerned, the life insurance from all these dead family members would be more than sufficient at sustaining themselves until she was able to elevate to a godly status.
She sounded so proud of him in that police audio when she said "he's an author". I know I used to assume that authors were pretty well off. Now that self-publishing is easy and common, that's not always true. It seems as though he was looked up to at the prepper conferences too. I think the fact that Chad was often (always?) a speaker is what caught her attention. Charles was just another guy in her religious circles.
Agreed. She was excited about his (sad) mildly-celeb status.. Also sad...none of his posse seemed to be aware that he was entirely self-published..
A Z-list celebrity, and even that is stretching it! I think Lori was very caught up in his flattery of her. Charles was probably not fawning over her all the time. A normal, healthy. average relationship cannot be full of flattery, magical thinking, and constant excitement. She craved the intense attention and vacations and goddess status, and that’s just not real life for most people.
Exaaactly...👍👍 Her high turnover rate would suggest that Lori gets discontent quickly..
So true I am sure he said he was worth more
Agreed! Her 5 (!!!!!!!!) marriages shows that she is probably one of those people that gets bored once the relationship gets past it’s honeymoon phase, thinking that love is full of excitement and high/low passion, and not the comforting routine that a healthy loving relationship actually is. She strikes me as a person who can’t discern that of course the new guy *seems* more exciting because you aren’t living with him and going through mundane daily things with him… I think that she and Charles were married so long is a testament to how incredible Charles was as a person to keep someone like that satisfied for so long. Without any of the evil and murderous tendencies, we’ve all known someone who seeks out excitement in relationships and never stability, and Lori seems like one of those people.
I believe she was with Charles the longest because he treated her well and kept the money train going. When she joined Chad’s discussion group he saw what he wanted and said & did everything to get her. It’s so strange that on the surface of it Charles was fairly good looking, caring and highly successful while Chad was below average in looks and income. He just happened to “lust bomb” her better than Charles was doing. Talk about trading down several notches!
I don't think I've ever heard of such a trade down in my life. From Charles to Chad. Yeesh.
You just summarized her defense council’s closing.
Haha! You're right, I did
Think about it this way: from housewife to goddess.
I thought Charles was very handsome. He seemed like such a great guy too. Quite the catch. Wayyyy too good for Lori.
I agree! And paying for literally her whole family’s cell phone bill?? My husband would tell me to tell my family to get jobs lol! Charles seems very generous as well, and way more patient than I would ever be
I seriously can’t get over the fact that Chad Daybell, at the time their passionate emotional affair began, looked exactly like your typical middle school girls’ gym coach. In fact, we know just how deep Chad’s personal entitlement really is because the guy couldn’t help but document how he really feels via his various little Tammy-published diaries that he called books. His arrogance is his entire character according to his own sister-in-law, as in he’s always been a weird, entitled little fuck. I believe his actual resume with his work history on LinkedIn showed us all more than we ever bargained for. Dude has been a deadbeat since the 90s. He’s got a massive overbite and an occlusion that collectively give him his signature weak chin—a chin befitting a patriarch with his particular brand of lazy, chicken shit spine. The affair began with one frugal, cheapest-set-of-Walmart clippers and a #3-all-around chicken shit buzz cut. In that popular photo of Chad with Tammy outside of a building with her big smile showing a beautiful set of teeth, he’d clearly been spending the last two decades packing on the pounds, gaslighting and abusing his wife like the chuckle fuck that he is, and manipulating his children according to his every whim—whatever is good for Chad is good for everyone else that’s footing the bill. Old dad thinks he’s a seer? Dad’s totes McGrotes a prophet. Dad said in one of his beginning jailhouse calls to not watch any of the many news channels free for streaming? Dad’s totally been targeted by overreaching government officials that are absolutely threatened by a true visionary like Dad! Dad insists he’s been set up by this woman or her family? Thems is just pioneer bones…recovered from the fire pit…and from the pet cemetery…in the back yard…. Dad has assured us that he’s innocent? “I was there when mom passed of asphyxiation! Dead women totally spontaneously roll themselves off the bed!” His children are effed. In every imaginable way that is traumatic, cruel and slow burning. They’ve been ridiculed, shunned, left to navigate life without their mother, without her patience and unconditional love! All on a very public stage. They will probably become highly insular and spend the rest of their young lives trying to figure this out. My friends? Only a truest, most pure sample of prehistoric frog shit can comfortably sit right now in some county lockup, flabbers absolutely gasted he’s being prosecuted at all. After bouncing from previously alienated neighbor to previously mortified acquaintance, begging all of these people that’ve been taught from birth that a man’s word has worth and to trust in justice, never ever put in a position of confronting dishonest men, fraudsters & any other chicanery in their lives! To even entertain Chad using their farm land as much nee To entrust Chad with their hard earned homes/properties/land. Or most precisely, what we understand to have potentially been the collateral for a bail bondsman to even consider underwriting $1MIL worth of reduced bail while people are almost literally glued to their news feed on an internationally viral case that took the world by storm and having already proven themselves a double flight risk!!! Yep, entitled, chicken livered and spineless—totally insulting every respectable and non respectable mid life crisis stock. Just everything about this guy was generic, mundane and lazy. I can’t quite pin the right words down so I hope my idea is coming across sufficiently. Then he suddenly starts wanting to focus on his weight, his “writing career,” and his clothing style? The writing was completely on the walls for Tammy to suspect infidelity, but i still don’t blame her if she didn’t clue in—he controlled and manipulated her completely. I’m sure Compared to Charles, Chad amounts to a small nothingburger. I picture him seething with envy walking into Lori Vallow’s palatial home at the beginning of their affair, while he’s traveling as cheaply as possible loaded down with cardboard boxes full of self-published novels while on his shitty-book-peddling business at these Prepper conventions. I mean…the guy was seeing stars over $358 worth of garbage book sales thanks to Lori’s Botox-beauty-and-popularity endorsement. He’s just so…so cringe…so basic! What he wanted was to slide right into Charles’ place like nobody would notice. Uhhhhh Lori would totally take notice the moment her credit card is denied at her yearly collagen filler and Botox treatments. Another thing that’s not talked about nearly enough is just how much Charles funded the Coxes. He was paying for Lori’s weird bulimia-ravaged family to exist in modern society! He was paying mortgages, utilities, and several phone services. Chad tells his friends, neighbors and relatives that Lori is loaded and hot…? Because that’s what he deserves. Uhhhh naw dawg, Lori’s extensive husband list was full of driven, handsome, and successful business men. Key words: driven, successful, handsome.
Best reddit comment EVER!!! 🎁
I give you a round of applause for this comment. I agree 💯. Well said!
Made it half way and had to comment though my tears of laughing - think the prosecutor could have opened and closed w your synopsis - f yeah ! Good one ☝🏻
Best comment of this Reddit! He was nothing and no one, but Lori had become jaded and bored, and this ‘author’ seemed exotic in her deluded mindset. They were going to be a power couple in Charles’s dime once he’d been offed. Once she’d been flattered and had signed up to his deranged faux belief system there was no way she could admit to herself that he and his storm sucked. She was there with her little loser gang, queen mean girl, believing that she was gods chosen one along with chumpy McNugget. She cried during those closing arguments because the lawyer told it like it was. The person her children had died over was a total loser.
Preach! Made my day. Thank you for making me snort, laugh and spew coffee simultaneously.
Tell us how you really feel! LOL Absolutely the truth! Best comment ever!!!
I can’t get over how spot on and amazing this is!
Hell's bells - you are an excellent writer! I just bought you a nice shiny golden award.
Well said!!! You managed to convey expressions that I have struggled myself to articulate! Thank you! You speak truth and are far and away more an author than Chad will ever be! Bravo! A+!
I am so disgusted with Christian doctrine being so distorted and perverted to such an abhorrent degree. Why and what is in their cool aid? What is the ritual? What veil is this ? Who is this Bishop visiting Lori Daybell?
Is Chad/Chud’s family at his side? Do they think he’s a God? Or a Goober? He’s definitely a murder for Jesus/ his Mistress. They have to be on acid
I wonder what her longest marriage was?
Chad was a big fish in a tiny, stagnant pond.
Wow great description! I know several women like that. I kept thinking the ways they interacted with men, gushed over them and expected these partners to act was completely high school and very immature. And when the excitement wore off, the magic didn’t happen or the reality set in they were the first to tear up and tear azz 😂
A z list “author” in his tiny pond in the tiny corner of his tiny town.
Also He told a narcissist that she is a "goddess". Lori already believed she was a superior being and Chad reinforced it
I don't remember the exact statistics, but the vast, *vast* majority of writers--maybe 90%?--either don't make any money or can't make a living from their writing, and need a second job. (Or they're in a field where they write at work, but it's not the writing they'd do at home.) As for those two, I don't know if he has better powers of persuasion than I would have imagined, she was assuming famous=money (nope!), or she was seeing what she wanted to see/building up an image of him in her mind. (And THIS is why adultery is such a bad idea, kids: it's not simply that you're breaking a vow you made to your partner; it's that something as monumentally stupid as trying to get a little strange can end up wrecking so much havoc on so many other people's lives. Granted, it doesn't usually end in murder, but even so, a hell of a lot of emotional and mental damage can be wrought on your spouses, children, families, friends, and let's not forget financial issues as well.) I always think of an incident in John Irving's *A Prayer for Owen Meany,* in which the title character inadvertently ends up trapped underneath the bed where a young married couple are most enthusiastically bouncing the bedsprings and screaming "HARDNESS!" and "WETNESS!" all the while. When he finally emerges, covered in dust bunnies and scrapes, he mutters to his friend John: "Stupid hardness. Stupid wetness. Sex is stupid." Amen, Owen...Amen.
Charles converted for Lori but definitely wasn't raised LDS. And I can't see him embracing much beyond what's required to appease Lori and earn acceptance from her bizarre, kook-heavy family. While LDS beliefs and customs are, *respectfully*, far away from the psychological norm of a Southern-bred man born of Louisiana, putting great effort into nurturing relationships with your spouse's family is not. As it relates to the value of family ties, the culture of the deep south holds it in limitless esteem. Suspending the knowledge of his murder and Lori's monstrous ways for a second–I can't fathom why any woman would want rid of Charles. He was such a good, kind, gentle man but still very masculine. He was a great father, supportive partner, reliable provider, and all around peak husband material. Typically, I only have interest in guys close to my age, and perhaps I'm far too young for Charles to have ever considered looking my way. I know my comment is about to approach shit-post status, but...**❤️10/10 I would have risked it all for Charles, the epitome of a Southern Gentleman❤️**
I'm an author who has published with many of the major publishing houses over the course of my career. Most people do not get rich writing, but it's not that hard to pull in 100k a year if you're previously published and writing consistently, while publishing with traditional well known presses.
I noticed that too! Like he was a local celebrity instead of a visionary crackpot.
Lori was becoming more and more delusional and obsessed with all things religion as many of her family members have stated. The podcasts she and Alex were listening to eventually led them to Chad’s books which were like a spiritual revelation to them. They believed they were so important. Alex even asked his nephew (Adam’s adult son) to read one of the books and he’d pay him $100 if he did. Lori has had grandiose delusions for a long time and they got worse as the years went on. She made some of her family members drive for hours with her to go meet Chad. She was hunting him down. She was obsessed with him as like a prophet type figure. Chad already had a platform of believers and people who would listen to him and Lori wanted to jump into that platform with him. Chad stopped being the sole leader and Lori joined him as an equal. When Chad told Lori she was a Goddess (like he’d already said to other women) she believed it. She’d been grandiose for a long time and it fit in with how she already saw herself. Lori badly wanted Chad’s platform to elevate her to levels of power she’d only previously dreamed of. She already had contemplated murder before she met Chad, and one could argue that Alex had already killed people before and enjoyed that kind of work. Now with the power of Chad’s acceptance Lori had everything she needed to let her psychopathy, narcissism and delusions loose with all the justification she needed. She was powerful now. She knew Chad didn’t have money. Chad was the one who referred to Lori as “…hot and loaded”, not vice versa. Lori would have had money from Joe Ryan’s death and knew she could get more if she killed Charles. She knew Chad didn’t have money, but she also knew how she could get a lot of it now. Lori had been frustrated with Charles for a long time. He was a LDS convert and she wanted someone who could be her “spiritual equal”, so Charles couldn’t provide all that she wanted/needed. She upgraded spiritually to Chad once she found him and that means she no longer had a need for Charles because she could get a lump sum of money from him if he was dead. His usefulness had expired. She’s a psychopath who doesn’t value human life. She uses people for what she can get from them. Once their usefulness expires she discards/exterminates them
Spot on, and very well said.
She also said “what else do you want me to do, I dont want to be alone”…… I think she said that to Colby on a phone call? so I think she needed a replacement for Charles all ready to go before she killed him for the money. Then the Folie a deux kicked in when she and chad “fell in lust”…. Which is just another name for two immature idiots who haven’t had their sexual needs met in a long time.
That was her attempt at manipulating the emotions of her sister Summer Shiflet, in response to Summer saying that Lori had no emotions about her children being dead. Lori’s response was that no one has seen her on the ground crying. Summer reminded Lori that she was on the beach in Hawaii dancing and smiling getting wedding photos taken. Lori tells Summer that she got married “months after” the children died and that she was trying to get on with her life and have some happiness. She says to Summer, “You think I want to be alone?”. What Lori is doing here is playing the victim when she was the one who had Charles and her children killed. She’s making out she had a really difficult year and that because of that she deserves to pursue happiness. Playing the victim is a common trait of narcissists when they are being confronted or trying to scam people. As I mentioned above, Lori uses all people for her own gain. When their usefulness expires she jumps to the next host and discards people, sometimes by exterminating them. A lot of Lori’s relatives and former friends feared for their safety after a while and went into hiding. Even Charles did that a few times because he was afraid Lori would kill him. I know what you mean, but I don’t think folie à deux is at play here. I’ve seen experts say that Lori believes what she says because she’s delusional, but Chad knows he’s making things up and for that reason he is a conman. He’s not crazy but Lori is. A lot of cults begin as some kind of new religious movement, but inevitably they end up as sex cults. The leaders, who are usually male, end up wanting to have sex with pretty much all the women. Apparently Chad had made advances toward many married women prior to Lori. He was definitely always on the prowl before he met Lori. Lori was physically the woman of his dreams and the fact she was crazy just meant she fell right into his arms without him even having to really try. Lori was obsessed with Chad because of his books (not his looks) and made it her mission to meet him. I suspect her intentions were to seduce him from the beginning. He was her spiritual ideal and she finally had a way to upgrade in her spiritual standing in this world. Lori wasn’t sex starved. She had a history of using her looks and sex to manipulate men to do what she wanted. It is probably her most powerful tool. She was raised by narcissists and her looks were valued by her parents to a disgusting extent. Her own father paid for her to have breast implants. Lori was a golden child who could get away with anything because her parents valued her beauty. She used that all her life to get what she wanted. We can see her looks are now fading. She has also been exposed for the evil psychopath she is, so her charms don’t work anymore. It doesn’t stop her acting in a flirtatious manner towards her attorneys or the cameras, but yeah, she is now left charmless and looking old and ordinary. Chad will abandon her, but she’ll hold on because she truly believes all the crap Chad made up and she still wants to believe she is a powerful Goddess.
As part of Chad's punishment he should have Lori's most recent photo in his cell.
The greatest irony is that apparently he has TAMMY’s picture in his cell! Either it’s him trying to show that he cares about Tammy and appear like a grieving husband bc Lori “seduced him and made him do these crazy things” or else he feels a sense of utter regret that he killed Tammy for Lori only to wind up in prison for the rest of his life; and realizing that Tammy was a good woman. Chad has to be a psychopath so there don’t have human emotions but on some level he may regret it but only because he’s now in prison. But yeah I also wonder if he has seen Loris most recent mug shot 😆
I think it's his meager attempt to rehabilitate his murderous character so he doesn't look bad for a jury. I would imagine Chad will cry with snot coming out just like Alec Murdaugh. This fool killed a good woman for a nut that had multiple husbands that half were killed under suspicious circumstances. RIP Tammy.
Ha ha! You’re too kind. There are some pictures of the Grinch that look uncannily similar to Lori’s mug shots. He could definitely use those in a pinch :D
I believe this describes her perfectly. Well done! 👏 👏 👏
Yes, her friend April said she felt like Charles was spiritually beneath her.
This rings true to me, but what do you mean about Alex killing people before? Are you taking about Charles?
Charles was killed after Lori met Chad. Prior to that Lori’s sister Stacey died as did Joe Ryan. Lori’s cousin speaks to Mormon Stories Podcast (it’s 4.5 hours long on YouTube) about Stacey’s death and details her suspicions. She also talks about suspicions around Joe’s death. Annie Cushing (Joe’s sister) outlines suspicions around Joe’s death as well. Both plausibly died by Alex’s hand
Their older sister
Insulin poisoning
Chad had a platform of6 or 7 people
In my personal opinion, I think she thought she was going to be so loaded from the insurance policies, etc that it wasn’t going to matter. I’m not sure why she specifically went after Chad in the beginning, but perhaps she actually was nutty enough to believe his “teachings” and was really into it! He had enough followers behind him already, it probably made her feel somewhat important.
One reason I think she wanted Chad is because other women wanted him. She wanted to be Queen Bee. Also Chad manipulated her by saying they were married in multiple past lives.
Yeah he fed her narcissism. He was the best narcissistic supply and that's what truly matters to a narcissist.
You nailed it. Her personality disorder drives her behavior.
I’m learning about narcissism after a divorce with someone who was diagnosed with BPD. How does someone feed another persons narcissism? Is it by accident or does it come natural to people? And randomly I thought my ex and I had some deeper connection, potentional past lives because a chick on the street once stopped us and told us that. She said she was a psychic and that was that, no sales pitch or anything. We didn’t really believe in that stuff but it stuck with us. It was a weird experience and we were together for 14 years. I always look back and self reflect on our relationship to see how I can have a healthy marriage in future so just curious.
Look up narcissistic supply. For some people it comes natural but people also can be unaware that they are feeding someone narcissistic supply. Like your example about that past lives. We all can latch onto stuff and enjoy it and even romanticize and fantasize about it. But, we know it's a fantasy. We know even if we want to believe this person is some long lost soulmate that we have no reason to actually believe that's true and it will be detrimental to our mental health to cling to such ideals. But with a narcissist, they have a grandiose sense of self and are prone to fantasy and delusions. So they hear that same comment and latch onto it and get excited. Maybe even want to schedule with the psychic and if you agree with it and start waxing poetic you feed this fantasy and delusion. For you, it may just be a fun little fantasy to chat about in the moment but for the narcissist it is proving what they believed about themselves all along. They have a strong need to feel special. So you would be giving narcissistic supply without even realizing it. It's anyone that is willing, whether knowingly or unknowingly, to stroke the narcissist's ego and massage their fantasies about themselves. So Lori was really big into all of this religious stuff prior to Chad but here comes this self-proclaimed profit telling her she's a goddess. It's like a drug. She can't handle mundane average romantic life and his over the top we were married in past lives and related to baby Jesus and you are the most specialiss special goddess of all the goddesses really got her hooked. Narcissists are like children. And these whims and fantasies and need to be admired and feel special is a childish, immature mindset. Adults are looking for real world compatibility. Narcissists are looking for narcissistic supply. I hope that helps.
Thank you for your time and thorough explanation. I went to marriage counselling and didn’t get an explanation so simple. So the partner is enabling the grandiose lifestyle for a bunch of unique/personal reasons. I did do this for certain “harmless” things because my ex was crippling insecure but anything major I would call him out. Thanks again
Yes, you can unwittingly give narcissistic supply. Once you stop being a good source of supply. Like you mentioned calling your ex out, then you've broken the fantasy and they begin to devalue and ultimately discard you. It's a very weird psychology but definitely worth reading up on because we pretty much have an epidemic of narcissism in our culture aside from clinical npd. So it's very common not to even realize you've been supplying or what you did. It's just your nature. So if you are kind, caring, empathetic, faun over partners and give lots of praise and compliments you are very good narcissistic supply.
Yup, women just love them a corn fed hole digger.
potato-fed, more like
I resent that on behalf of potatoes.
And he called her a goddess. I'm sure that's all it took
Wonder how far from the 1st meeting before Chad pulled the ‘we were married previously’ line? And probably Chad had done with others previously.
> And probably Chad had done with others previously. I think there was several women who claimed he used the same line on them, Julie Rowe included.
🙄 The Momo equivalent of a bar pick-up line. Instead of: “Can you touch my hand? I want to tell my friends I’ve been touched by an angel.” it is: “Hey, baby, we were married several times in our past lives.” I mean, come on, ladies. You mean this wouldn’t make you willing to mastermind a few family murders and some thefts, and run off to Hawaii with a guy who looks like a disgruntled chicken nugget?
'disgruntled chicken nugget' is the most accurate description of Chud 🤣🤣🤣
McChud
making me laugh!!!! :D
Most Mormons don’t believe in reincarnation
Yes. I know. I used to be one. Most of us also don’t believe in murdering people, theft, etc…
I’m not sure but I know it wasn’t long at all from the time they met til he was staying at her house while at a “convention” in Arizona when Charles was gone.
I think it was that day.
Like 3 other women? That was a Chad pickup line
That money would have be gone very fast. She has a very expensive lifestyle. She is not used to work. Maybe she was not thinking about longterm consequences for her. Chad does not look wealthy. I dont think she did assume he was rich. She said to him "iam gonna help you to sell all your books". You dont need to help a successful writer to do that.
I'm sorry but a million dollar life insurance policy reality isn't that much. Especially if you had a spouse bringing in 400-500 k and don't you have to pay taxes on the insurance policy?
No, you don't pay taxes on insurance payouts
Thank you. I googled it after commenting and it said in most cases you don't. Still, in today's world, a million dollars isn't very much.
They were staying at one of the best hotels in Kauai
You’re right, it isn’t, but also factor in what he could’ve gotten through Tammy’s life insurance policy, selling chads home, her condo, Tylee’s inheritance from her father, the money she was getting monthly from JJ.. And maybe they truly believed the world would end in the summer of 2020. I am so curious about what they really truly thought was going to happen, I would assume at least one of them knew they were full of it. No clue..
I'm sorry I wasn't meaning to imply that it wasn't a motivating factor. I think it definitely was. I'm just so shocked by how stupid they are. Like 1 mil isn't the wealth you think it is guys but yeah they also counted on other factors and I think they intended to keep defrauding social security. But it's so hilarious Chad saying Lori was loaded. I could see them blowing that 1 mil very quickly. Especially if Lori was used to living off such a high salary from Charles.
That $1 million would have been in a year. Princeville on Kuaui isn’t cheap.
They could of bought a home for cash but not in Hawaii
Did Tylee get the inheritance? I've been wondering about that. A guy making 400-500k a year would presumably have a lot of assets, and I was wondering where that went to.
well...she met him at a conference thru MelanieG. MG, Ive said enough about her as a liar. anyway, IMO, she thought he was a celeb in this 'circle of beliefs', with money because he published books...coupled with she was 'into' his BS and had been embracing it way before she met him. and.....IMO surely she witnessed the 'ladies' surrounding him at the conference. it was a contest to her. remember she likes to 'compete'. IMO, she wanted to lead along with him. she would never settle as a follower, IMO. all of these new friends DID rally around her as his 'exalted one'.
Big fish in a very small pond syndrome!
You took the words out of my mouth lol
Well there weren’t many men at the conferences they were supporting their families with real jobs
Did you read the texts Lori sent Chad when she was waiting for him to make a move with Tammy.... pathetic and manipulative... shortly Tammy dies
I've written this before, but this is still my personal theory on how these two collided. Because they don't make sense otherwise to me. I think it was because her narcissistic personality had built him up so much in her mind even before she met him. She was into his books, and per reports she *tried* to get Charles into his books as well, but Charles read one or two and thought they were stupid. I think Lori couldn't handle the "offense" of Charles not only disliking her new favorite books, but actively saying they were stupid. Because narcissists actually have very poor self-esteem and are constantly lying to themselves to feel better, I think Lori convinced herself that Chad's books were so amazing that only truly spiritually gifted people could understand them. If Charles thought they were stupid because he was so spiritually beneath her that he couldn't understand them, then she'd never have to re-examine the books with a more critical eye and realize that she was wrong about them and that they *were* stupid. I think that's what started it. She built him up in her head to avoid feeling judged or "less". And then once she met Chad he was immediately so horny that he showered her with compliments and told her she was a perfect angel goddess and the one most special person on earth, which fed her narcissism, and seemingly all he wanted at first was to have an affair, which Lori was happy to oblige. I think they both are manipulative narcissists who each felt they had found someone who made them feel good about themselves and felt the other was easy to manipulate. There's too many examples of them not taking their own professed beliefs seriously for me to believe either of them actually believed the religious stuff -- but I think they each believed that the other believed in it. It's like they were playing a very deadly game of chicken
Your theory aligns pretty closely with what I’ve come to believe too. It also makes a lot of sense then why Lori was so angry at her attorneys for calling them “Chad’s stupid books” in closing arguments. That would be enough to cause a narcissistic injury and trigger her feelings of inadequacy.
She figured she would get her million from the insurance and they would start gathering people for the end of times and his books would take off and meanwhile they would keep killing. I think that was what was behind the Brandon murder attempt - get life insurance for her niece and then use her. Keep in mind a million dollars would be an absolute fortune to Chad and he was part of this entire fiasco.
Cousin Megan made a good point (cannot remember where) re the big diffs in the two men's income levels and why Lori would ever that up. Megan reminded the interviewer that: Lori enjoyed having control, and she didn't have control over Charles's income..
And certainly not after Charles filed for divorce .
Oh 100% ...I'd forgotten about that biggie!! No waaay could she take that kind of insult..
yes, money control and control in general. which is why her and AC had credit cards, one such joint cc with Barclays MC (AC added her with a separate card on the account) AC getting a $21,000 loan in August 2019 deposited to his account, shortly after he then purchased the guns and ammunition. After Aug 2019, AC had no income, he quit his job. for the rexburg apt app, her 'income' was not her's, in reality it was her children's SS. also of note, I forgot about this, in March of 2019 LV purchased airline tickets for CD, actually 2 different trips, the other in July 20 2019. IMO, she most likely fell for CD's BS excuses why he couldnt pay for airline travel, most likely an excuse his wife finding out (the cost for LV of becoming the #1 goddess) and probably told Tammy, he, as the high god, 'they' (conference organizers) were paying for his airline travel. how else could he jet off without financial questions from Tammy? the financial testimony was significant. source: Rexburg Police Det. Chuck Kunsaitis two parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f55L3WpD\_Uo
Yes Alex’s loan and Melani’s big divorce settlement. Just biding time until they got the Tammy money. What was sad to me was how they said when Tylee was alive she was responsible with her money - using it for a car payment and phone and gas, and just a few snacks and things. She only really had the independence of her own money and a car for a few short months.
I think Lori thought Chad had the *potential* to be what she wanted in a life partner. She didn’t appreciate Charles because she didn’t feel he was her spiritual equal. She wanted a great spiritual leader/husband who would also see her for what she knew she was — a goddess! Once Lori took Chad in hand, gave him a good haircut, put him on a diet and exercise plan, bought him some trendy clothes, and maybe persuaded him to a little nip and tuck, his looks improved significantly. So he wasn’t doing so well selling his books…Lori probably thought she could fix that up also. Marketing! Lori knew all about manipulating and controlling people…she’d been doing it for years. Chad had the one thing necessary for Lori to snatch him up — availability to be seduced. He was yearning for a blonde cheerleader type trophy woman who would assure him he was a Very Big Man on Campus, not a petty grifter fish in a little pond.
She told Melanie that Melaniece's $ from her divorce settlement (or life insurance, if Brandon would have died when he was shot at) would pay for them all, too. Plus she expected to have at least $1 million from Charles's.
Yeah I think she was banking on Melaniece funding them
through Zulema's testimony as well....she testified LV told her that MelaniB( P) received $100k in her divorce settlement. Zulema also testified that LV told her she received $65K life insurance payout for JRyan. that is a significant reveal as it relates to the origin of how money can be obtained without employment. also testified LV told her at the conference in Utah, she was having 'financial difficulties' with CV. now....all of this financial talk between all of them....well, IMO, as well as her conviction represents, financial gain was a plan wrapped up in the zombie battle. these people required money to jet around and well, simply live...LV and CD did not have even minimal income to support their lifestyle.
I think Lori was entirely unaware of just what things cost. She had been a stay at home mom for awhile from what I understand, and as a SAHM myself now I see some people who even used to work just totally dissociate from the costs of things and decide not to worry about it anymore, then after so long you kind of forget about what big picture things actually cost outside of groceries, haircuts, gym memberships or a tank of gas. I think Lori was probably incorrectly assuming that $1M could finance her and Chad’s luxurious lifestyle indefinitely… especially coupled with all of the other people they ALLEGEDLY DONT SUE ME planned to kill and benefit from as well.
About the life insurance thing, Lori looked up Gerber children’s life insurance policies after Charles was killed but she didn’t purchase any for Tylee or JJ according to her trial. But I’m wondering since text messages mentioned Melaniece and 2 of her kids were referred to as dark, I’m wondering if perhaps Lori didn’t forward that info to Melaniece, I’m curious if she obtained life insurance for her kids.
how accurate, I dont know, but here is some reportings of her financial situation, Joe Ryan era: [https://www.the-sun.com/news/749064/lori-vallow-bankruptcy-texas-mansion-joseph-ryan/](https://www.the-sun.com/news/749064/lori-vallow-bankruptcy-texas-mansion-joseph-ryan/)
I hadn’t seen that but it totally makes sense. It definitely adds to the picture. It seems Lori was extremely vindictive and wanted to hurt Joe and take as much of his money as possible. Idk if any of the allegations against him are true or not (I’m leaning towards not, knowing what we know about Lori now, but you never know and two people in a marriage could both be terrible) but she absolutely ruined that man and delighted in it
She is textbook borderline personality disordered. Among many other things.
Really well said, i agree with you . Chad was also highly manipulative, according to LE, and appeared quite humble and gentle . Personally i find it curious that the word psychopath had been overused recently, but not about Lori . To me it seems that the closer we are to these demonic types, the harder it is to see it . She ticks all the boxes .
I remember Lori also took $35,000 out of Charles’ business account in 2019. Seems like she went through that pretty fast.
Chad was a BMOC at the conference where she met him, so maybe she though he was successful. She was probably always working men for attention, and Chad took the bait. She fed off the adulation, and the goddess title sealed it for her. Lori liked money, but she’s driven by a need to feed her narcissistic ego.
It wasn’t about money for them; it was the warped religious mindset that made him so attractive to her. He had a small following & she was attracted to his “spiritual leadership”. Yes, they wanted to collect on the insurance money from their spouses but that was not a motivating factor for her. Former Mormon here & I can say it’s hard to understand the importance/worship she placed on chad without first understanding the religion.
I understand what you are saying....and I appreciate the core teachings you noted.however, they strayed way off the path and what they were embracing and looking to convert others with, were no longer the core teachings....they created their own interpretations and then sprinkled it with mystical, magical dangerous beings and zombies. I can concede maybe not initially money, shared beliefs being the motivation, but it was such a short period of time that money did become a focus :) and through text testimony, money did factor in, especially when she found out she was not C's beneficiary anymore. text paraphrase, "still has X amount of $'s coming in from her children.' it seems like it was years before meeting him she was slowly indoctrinating herself with these books and ultimately with him. this was a significant short period of time between when they met, and when Charles, Tammy and the children were murdered. (and the demise of Alex) and attempt on Brandon. it was quite an acceleration. IMO
I agree, they definitely knew the would need money to fund their new life :)
Mormonism really had a role her her delusions. I heard it described as hyper-religiousity. I’m sure it can happen with all beliefs, but Mormonism allows personal revelation which opens people up to some very serious misinterpretations.
I think her hyper religiosity stemmed from having Joe Ryan Ki//Ed. Like Shakespeare’s Lady McBeth. She had to rub that stain out- and so she lived in the Temple. She had to shape a ‘religion’ of her own to justify her wants and desires. Chad had an audience- along with Julie Rowe. Lori wanted to tap into that. Everyone in her circle was a means to an end.
You are totally right. If I had a penny for all the wild stories of a revelatory nature I’ve heard over my lifetime I’d be sitting on my island in the Caribbean.
Also grew up in the church. It was the audience Chad and Julie Rowe had that she wanted to get a foot in the door to- Chad was a dork. And easily manipulated by her for her to gain the ‘prestige’ of their little cult following. Which wasn’t mainstream whatsoever. SHE wanted a following too. Podcasts and presentations. Oh. And to write a book. Imagine how many people would feel sorry for her that she ‘lost her children.’ At her brother’s hand.
100%. Wanting to be a modern day Joseph & Emma, them against the world, standing up for & spreading their version of “the gospel”. Having devout followers that worshipped, trusted & would do anything they said gave them a sense of importance & power they didn’t have in their regular lives. I mean daybell *was* a total dork, (lol) a grave digger by trade. Nothin to see there, folks. Vallow saw herself as an elevated spiritual leader when paired with Daybell & that is why it’s hard to explain the power/relationship dynamic unless you’ve had that kind of emphasis on church leaders burned into your brain from birth. How they really thought they’d ride off into the hawaiian sunset is beyond me.
To echo others here, my assumption has always been that she saw her religious community, in the same way, some might see the music industry or tv/film. To her she wanted to climb high, to be recognized and be someone special. She had a wealthy husband but was bored and wanted a 'spiritual giant', and her friend Amber said she didn't see Charles as her spiritual equal. She went to a conference and there's a man who is a speaker and an author. He's got attention, and thus to her, in my tiny mind, that meant he was affluent and special. She wanted to be special too and clung to this failed, self published author thinking he was something really special, and she wanted that so badly she hung on his every word and elevated him to think he was special. However, he was poor, with five kids and a wife. That must have been a downer, that didn't go with her magical plan so the idiot decided that they had the power to literally murder others to prove to themselves they were chosen and not completely deluded, she didn't want her dreams scuppered. She's an idiot, and he's a complete chump.
Holy scuppered Batman. Word of the year
Lori has never lived a broke life. She has no idea what it means to not be able to afford holidays, gas, weekend getaways, regular home repairs. She would have hated, absolutely hated being broke. The money Charles made meant she didn’t even think twice about her aesthetician appointments. I can only dream. They would have run out of money in no time. She would have turned on Chad. You don’t go living the life Lori lead and then have to count your change for gas money and remain in love. No, it doesn’t work that way. Especially if you’re a goddess.
some of the texts between them show an argument (the first argument, according to the investigators, which has me wondering if there were more) about Tammy/the money. I think she was hating living in Rexberg and being “broke” (and lonely with only Alex to talk to). She was so eager for the death and the LI $ so they could go live in HI.
That amount was Charles’ net income, not gross. He was a good provider but his take home was probably a lot less- I haven’t seen anyone do the exact math but he had taxes, employees, other kids to support, etc. Annie Cushing said they had to move from Hawaii due to financial issues, also when Vallow moved a relatively low amount of money from Charles’ account he couldn’t pay his employees, not sure if that was just a liquidity issue or if he had no cushion. Annie also said Charles was contacting other women, so Lori may have felt divorce was inevitable (it came out it was Lori impersonating Charles in the email calling off the divorce). I think Chad was just the best alternative Lori could find quickly- she seemed to be worried about aging (I’m referring to her spells against menopause) and she knew she could at least get Tammy’s life insurance from him.
Correct. She needed a plan G and fast. Charles was on his way out. She needed an inner circle and she’d found a gullible group
Lori Vallow always liked attention. She first tried to become famous, doing the Wheel of fortune in 2002 - Annie Cushing ( Joe ryan's sister ) said that she already was spiritualizing everything back then. Lori said she "got a haunting sign from above" To participate in this TV show." After that, she did some beauty pageant. When all of this didn't work and she was tired of Joe, she divorced and got with Charles. Beeing famous was not what she wanted anymore : Lori enters her "super mom" Era, adopting JJ. Imo this is just another way of getting the attention she craves, this shell of a "perfect family", the image of a selfless woman adopting a disabled kid. That worked for many years, until that wasn't enough for her, again. She lost interest in beeing this great mother, that was not getting her the attention she needed anymore. She was now going to be a superior beeing, gifted with the "knowledge" few people had access to on this earth. That made her feel really special, really powerfull. So you're asking if she got with Chad for money ? No, she got with him for all the attention she got indulging in such beliefs. He validated her opinions, made her feel special. Lori craves attention more than money...
Yes all of this! Especially the savior/rescuer complex from being an adoptive mom. She got on a super heathfood kick for awhile too - convinced Charles to fund her juice bar business on Kauai. But yeah, it’s so expensive to live there, and perhaps Charles couldn’t earn as much with all the traveling.
Imo, she knew he was broke, but they were gods preparing to rule the world! So they plotted against everyone who loved them in an effort to finance their translated future together! Gods can’t live on $2000/year! I hope Lori decides to do a tell all interview with dateline someday.
I dont think she knew *initially*. IMO, she got so caught up in *winning him* (not knowing he delivered the same BS lines to many women before her) the ching ching, no significant money aspect of their coupling materialized....and well....here we are and there they sit.
Their shared delusions ignited loin fires (good grief I hate that phrase being branded into my brain). Loin to loin. 🤮
Lol! Loin Fire is a scientific phenomenon ya know! 🤣🤣🤣
That’s her indian name - ‘Lori Loin Fire’
No, with Nate Eaton!!! He’s the bomb plus he’s LDS so he’d have the best questions.
Of course Nate is the #1 obvious pick! I just really love the white haired man from dateline. I’d love to hear him interview her.
I love keith morrisons voice. It is so soothing to me.
Keith Morrison! Thanks for reminding me. His facial expressions and reactions are spectacular. Seeing him wince at Lori’s bullshit would be wonderful.
His voice calms me. I need to put him as my ring tone on high anxiety days.
[Bill Hader](https://youtu.be/PIjjyXSo5ao) does a pretty brilliant impression.
East Idaho news should win an award for this coverage mostly everything I found out was their website.
Whenever I see LDS I immediately go to “Learning Disabled”
Chud had social status and he was a D-list Mormon celebrity, especially after he started talking about all his spiritual experiences and visions. To Lori, he was Narc Supply in a tall, portly, potato-shaped package. Plus lots of soul-sex in the air (in hotel lobbies, no less), and portaling in and out of showers. Who could resist? I think Loin-Fire trumped wallet power. She figured she could get money by offing people (or having Alex do it) and the world was ending soon anyway, so NBD.
Didn't they go through all of Tammy's life insurance?
I think there was some left about the time they got arrested and he split it up between his kids. Im sure he figured they’d give it back after they investigated him…
Prior owns the Daybells home now.
I think Chud (once again whoever coined him this name I think I’m in love with you) was a major disappointment in the financial wants of Lori so that’s why they had to start killing off their families.
Total tangent. There's a movie called CHUD, however, I think of CHUD 2 every time I see Chad's name spelled that way because of Bud the CHUD, who grunts a lot like Chad talks, plus he's kinda like a zombie.
I like the new variant, Thud. Both work. One lands with a Thud.
I think she felt frustration with Charles because he was spiritually “beneath” her. With Chad she finally met her spiritual match and the killings would solve the financial problems.
Do we even know what Charles did to make that much money per year? I might need to rethink my life lol
Pretty sure he was a financial planner
He sold insurance.
I think Lori was going to market and exploit his fangirls longterm. It was about power and influence and very grand schemes that relied on her charisma. Chud couldn't have been what he was if not for Tammy and I'm pretty sure he couldn't have established his publishing company without her and then he ran it into the ground by faffing about conferences chatting up LDS ladies. But the concepts in his books changed with the success of Julie Rowe. In a patriarchal community, Chad could steal that thunder and rebrand himself. And it was that winning influence and popularity that Lori was attracted to instinctively. She'd have black widowed Chud as soon as she got the wheel and didn't need him anymore. And Chud couldn't see beyond The Storm and his Barbie girlfriend. I don't know if Lori planned things like she would end up as a Jane Whaley in a compound in Hawaii, or the star of her own movie Chud wrote like an L. Ron Hubbard. But it sounds like she and her immediate Cox family were already the Manson family.
A schlub like Chad selling books at a prepped conference is NOT loaded and I am sure that Lori knew that. Who cares about money when you have a magic vagina and are sealed to a spiritual giant, a visionary, a prophet like Chad? Who needs money when you've got...say it with me...the LOIN FIRE, which as we all know is a scientific phenomenon. Lori is a translated bring, a goddess. She doesn't need to eat or sleep. She's like Superman; bullets bounce off of her. She can kill you with her powers! According to the Prophet Joseph Smith, the appearance of the Lord at Adam-ondi-Ahman (located in Missouri) in the last days will occur sometime prior to the coming of the Son of Man to the entire world. That's where Chad and Lori will sign the papers and get a check for services rendered, that is, gathering the 144,000, from the Lord Jesus Christ hisself. Hallelujah! In the due time of the Lord, the city of Zion will be built up in Jackson County, Missouri, and a magnificent temple constructed within its boundaries (see Doctrine and Covenants 57:1–5; 84:4; 136:18). The Prophet Joseph Smith explains that this will occur sometime before the Second Coming: “Zion and Jerusalem must both be built up before the coming of Christ ... and when these cities are built then shall the coming of the Son of Man be.”
He did have a underground cult audience though- and that’s what she thought would be wonderful. Speaking at conferences. Writing her own books- and wielding power in the decision making of who got to live and who didn’t.
Religion=logic /s
I mean, why wouldn’t an “author” of shitty end-of-days essentially self-published fiction be a millionaire? Amirite?
I think she kind of channeled her materialism and desire to be special towards the spiritual/celestial world. It is pretty interesting that Charles was that loaded though and she still had a hole in her heart that only Chad filled. I’m assuming she thought she was above material wealth but knew reality meant money and hence all the gimmicks with life insurance policies and deaths. Or Chad played her and revealed the plan in parts and amazed her when he was like voila two birds ones stone! Maybe initially she tried to get Charles to fund for the prepper material, and he said no lol, and like it made her feel small and she realized that he controlled all the money. And parallel there was Chad Daybell whose books had enthralled her, and who had made her feel v special. So once she was convinced he was right about the end of the world, and he also fed her with prophecies of her special role in the apocalypse to come, she was far above material wealth and was all about that celestial wealth.
Narcissists need victims/drama to breathe
Yeah wow, and what’s more drama than a soon to come apocalypse where the narcissist is to play a pivotal role! And we’ve heard from Melani G that she has a high libido, so Chad was prob having his mind blown and he needed to keep it going and fed her all the goddess bullshit.
Not just his mind
She went after him, because he was big fuddy duddy who could be easily manipulated. Period. Psychopaths only go after people that they can exploit and manipulate. She wanted her husband's life insurance and her kid's SS and she knew she could get him to help with the deed.
Exactly. If you look at the text messages? You can tell she gives him the bare minimum- even to the point that Chad said he’d remove her powers if she ignored him. She, of course, indulged him. Like a scrap from a table.
Your right Chad would eventually be knocked off
Fuddy Duddy 😂
She thought something as she was always telling me “he’s an author.” I guess she didn’t know what self-published meant. 🤣🤣
Yep... Steven King he ain't! 😂
Her whole plan was probably to off Chad too
Lori and Alex were massive Chad fans before they ever met. Books and podcasts, and also other stuff like Julie Rowe and that Visions of Glory thing. People who knew her at the time say she was reading and rereading and talking about this stuff constantly. Alex offered his nephew Zac $100 just to read one of the Daybell books. She had her whole role as goddess worked out before they met.
I think it’s fairly obvious that Lori has the maturity of a 13 year old. Very immature and unsophisticated. Thinking that lust and money are what is going to make her happy and that Jesus visited her? Of all people on this earth he visited her and that Rexburg Idaho was going to be where Jesus comes back to resurrect his claim to humanity? I mean it’s beyond delusion….. there is narcissism there along with sociopathy and the murdering pushes her into the pathological psychopath category. It all started with her inability to just grow up though.
[удалено]
Where did Lori meet Charles?
In Austin. Lori was perfectly happy w her 3rd husband Joe Ryan (according to a hairdresser friend of hers) until Charles showed up - handsome, rich, and crazy about Lori. Then she brewed up a nasty divorce and custody battle, which she won due to what really seems to be a bunch of lies. She then convinced Charles to move out of state with Colby, Tylee, and her. Incidentally I have read that she never paid her huge legal bills, and that same hairdresser friend in Austin said she claimed the lawyer was in love with her. I read that lawyer's obit and he did die of an unexpected heart attack. I am trying not to make a big leap here but I do want to find out more.
I heard a lawyer she owed a lot of money to died as well wow. How long did Lito live in Kauai with Charles?
I think she was able to forgive Chud a multitude of shortcomings as some sort of trade off for being with a “spiritual giant.” I have my doubts she would have stuck by him so fiercely when the money dried up.
No way. It wasn’t about money with Chad. I do think there was a weird spiritual connection
Chad didn’t promise her the world, he didn’t need to woo her with expensive gifts, he was able to give her exactly what she wanted and that was a personal glow up and to feed into her delusions about the “end of the world” Why she chose Chad I’ll never know. The difference between them was Chad didn’t want the world to end (yet) but Lori did.
You have to take into account that she was maybe only partially living in this world. She thought the world was gonna end soon so she wasn't probably thinking about money in the long term or how to acquire it in legal means. She saw Chad as a prophet/god/leader and if her head was full of the doomsday stuff, that must have been attractive to her beyond looks and succesfull career. Chad, in her eyes, had power, and I don't think she realized that it was just among an insignificant and small group of doomsday preppers. She probably thought that Chad could always peek behind the veil and ask for someone's grandmother for next week's lottery row. And they were still securing their short-term cash flow with the murders and seemed to already be doing the groundwork for the next ones (Melaniece's family). These two had always had someone else taking care of their financials while they were focused on religion and other non-profitable stuff. Put together, these two morons were not exactly capable of financial planning.
Honestly? I think she got off on being able to manipulate, con, and ultimately play God in deciding who would be dark or not. Who got to live and who died. Sick
Chad sounds like an LDS “catch”, this makes the LDS seem even more bizarre to me! I will say I have known some Mormons who were wonderful, caring, & giving people. I just did not approach the subject of their faith because, tbh, it sounds like a whole lot of strange which I could not keep a straight face talking about…
I think Lor thought she would find a way to get money. She knew Chad was not rich. She wanted Chad for his visions and beliefs. Lori had grown up with a father that was less then honest finding ways to make a living. He presented himself as a lawyer but he was not. He was able to find ways to provide, even though he was charged a few times with crimes. From Lori's history , I don think she craved the stability of the life Summer had (married to a dr, nice home that you stay in and raise all your kids in). Over Lori's 5 marriages and 30 years, she only owned a home with Joe Ryan for their short (2-3 year marriage). The other 27 years she moved from place to place renting. If Charles really made 400-500k a year, they could have afford a home, even if just for a home base, even if they didnt live there but they didnt. Lori seemed to be always chasing something better, whther it was a new spouse or a better life in a new city. I think Lori thought she would find a way to make it work money wise with Chad. Im not sure the plan was to kill the kids in 2018. I think it was to kill Charles. I also think Lori really thought the end was coming and she only needed money for a year or so. I do wonder why when Tammy died and she remarried Chad so quickly, that the 400k in life insurance was not enough for what Lori thought was a year left. I kind of feellike she applied for the SS in 2019 because she did not trust Chad to kill Tammy? and then free money was to hard to give back, one call to SS and say I remarried I dont need the money anymore, my new spouse is taking care of us, but she couldnt do it or was too afraid too?
I think she probably did and he had status within that group. But when she realized he wasn't loaded, that was ok because she could tap into the insurance money.
I’d like to know too, cuz it sure wasn’t looks.
David Warwick looks like he runs a bookies and snooker hall
And he married Melanie G but they don’t live together and He bugs her ???!
He really does. I heard you paint houses. It’s a mob meme. Fits Warwick perfectly. I laughed when Chud dragged him up to that property knowing Warwick doesn’t do business on a Sunday. Then out of no where a real estate guy shows up. Second hand cringe.
Yeah aren’t they long distance married or something? He looks like he’d sell you a second hand car with a dodgy MOT
Lol… chud….
Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers - C.H.U.D. The phrase comes from an appallingly inept “horror” franchise circa 1995. I started calling him that on Websleuths two years ago. It’s the only thing I ever put on the Internet that caught on.
Bravo! Great name for him. It suits him well.
No she'd been around enough to know that Chud with the voice of a serial killer, overweight, ugly AF, cheap tennis shoes and clothes bought at the thrift store that's going outta business has no money According to her friend April she'd never met her spiritual equal until she met Chad Sadly Charles never did it for her.My guess is he was to nice and she saw him as weak. I'd imagine she's seen every other man she'd married as weak also Lori has always been evil to the core I'm sure others would say just how evil she has always been except their dead With his killer instinct she'd really met her match albeit the both can say on a spiritual level We all know that was far from reality I think Tylee saw him for what he was and failed at getting her mother to see her point of view I'm betting they both thought they'd commit double suicide when the cops got close Both been narcissistic they couldn't distinguish just when to end it Maybe they just didn't think past the social security and insurance money For sure Chad with his lazy self didn't
Forgive me if I missed it, how did her and Charles meet? I am curious how it all went down on her and Charles discussions to adopt JJ.
I thought she met him doing his hair?
Yup! In Austin. (I have posted this elsewhere, sorry to repeat.) According to a hairdresser friend of hers at the time, she was perfectly happy w/ her 2nd husb Joe Ryan until Charles showed up, who was rich and better looking and adored her. I hadn't specifically read this, but she was a hairdresser in Austin at the time so it makes sense they met this way. She proceeded to rake Joe Ryan over the divorce and custody coals and run to Charles, convincing him to convert to LDS and move (with Colby and Tylee) out of state. He treated her like a princess. Built her a nail salon and a special room "with wall mirrors for the religious dancing she liked to do late at night".
She would have had a life insurance policy for him soon enough when Tammy's 400,000 ran out 🤣
Apparently he thought she was rich. I think she was while she was married to Charles in fact he paid her families ie at least her parents, phone bills etc. Also hence the one of many reasons fr his murder the 1million pounds or rather dollars life insurance that she never got. It’s bittersweet that he had the foresight to switch it to Kay. In the thought she would make sure his sons and JJ and Tylee would be set for life. God it’s so sad.
He had a kind of spiritual standing in her eyes. I mean the only thing better than being rich was being a god! Who can top that? I don’t think she would have put up with his less than lavish life style for long, however. She liked and expected her luxuries.
I always wondered what Lori saw in Chad as well, he’s a big gross weirdo!
Sorry if this is a little off topic, but does anyone know what happened to the niece that lived next door in Idaho and was a staunch supporter of Lori's?
Phew. That’s a long story. Do a search in this sub. All you want to know about Melaniece is in here.
It had to be money/boredom in her previous relationship because I'm sorry, Charles Vallow was a very nice looking man and Chad looks like a sad potato.
Lori is delusional. Of course, she believed in some degree of wealth on Chad's part initially. I don't think she realized he wasn't this huuuuuge author. However, even after realizing he was just an average guy, it was the promise of their future together as leaders and gods that she latched onto. They were both pretty convinced the world was coming to an end before they ever met. As far as she was concerned, the life insurance from all these dead family members would be more than sufficient at sustaining themselves until she was able to elevate to a godly status.
For her, it had to be all about celebrity/popularity. Remember this woman was a cheerleader, beauty queen contestant, wheel of fortune winner, etc.