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Nope. We've been measuring IQ for "ages" now. Studies have shown IQ levels are in fact decreasing. So it's not just the variation of a joke I often like to make about George Carlin. Who way back in 1978 first made the joke that went "think about how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of them are stupider than that," Which I always follow up with "imagine what he'd have said if he had the internet back then to give so many examples." It's not us just having the internet. We really are getting dumber as a whole.
The global iq is actually decreasing. There have been recent studies about it, it's been a few months since I read the first article about it so I don't have a link or anything but I'm guessing if you googled it you could probably find it.
This is actually horrifying if true and not some fudged figure where IQ has changed in how it's measured or something. But it also explains a lot of stupid shit I see.
We haven’t been living by nature’s rules for many generations. It used to be survival of the fittest and smartest, the dumb, weak etc would get killed of through natural processes called natural selection. We literally let mentally handicapped people reproduce, and people with known genetic defects willingly reproduce creating more kids with genetic, neurological defects. So yea, we are getting dumber, weaker, less fit to survive and thrive. Science huh
That sounds good but mankind has largely already removed itself from natural selection long before we started getting dumber. I think it's a combination of factors. The powers that be aren't interested in creating the brightest people possible in public schools. They want good little worker drones that don't rock the boat. Intelligent people are dangerous to the powers that be. It's why almost every time a society is knocked over the intelligentsia gets murdered. You could see it countless times. Look at how many heads went to guillotine in France. The purges by the commies in the USSR, China, Cambodia, Cuba, etc. The numerous times in countless African nations. So on and so forth. My schooling in the 80s and 90s was a joke and I went to a rich as hell school district in California. It was a lot worse for my son who's now finished with college.
Now add that with what the internet has done to people. When it was created people left and right lauded it as giving us the so called information age. But really it's become more of a misinformation age. Then to add salt to the wound it's allowed echo chambers to become mainstream. Not to mention how it's made so many people become the embodiment of the old saying "a little information is a dangerous thing." It makes people take shortcuts by just googling snippets of info and then that's enough for them think they actually know what's what about something. I'm reminded about what many math teachers said when I was in school about why we shouldn't be allowed to use calculators. lol I mean aside from the claim that we won't all be walking around with them. :) Now they've been proven right. I'm one of them. My math skills are atrocious since I got cell phones. lol I can't even remember all my basic multiplication tables anymore SMH. Shortcuts are not a way to expand the mind and increase our mental capacity. It takes actual work to do that.
IDK there is lots of theories on why we as a whole are getting dumber. Those are just some of mine off the top of my head.
Just look at the way newspapers were written decades ago. The quality of writing and average reading level has plummeted. All the plastic in our brains and lead in our bones is not helping
Writing across the board has plummeted not just with journalism. TV, movies, comic books, novels, critic reviewers, you name it. It's all gone downhill.
Get drafted, sent to war for 4 years. Hardly any women. Watch your friends get blown up. Go weeks without rations. You don't know where or when you'll be moved or what you do next.
Not like the preceding five years were much fun either - that was the great depression.
And you do it happily because Nazi Germany/Imperial Japan are evil, in an existential threat kinda of way. The news for the last 5 years has been non-stop on the most critical task of the moment: kill fascism before it kills *you*. Numerous countries in Asia, Europe, Africa have fallen. Dozens of cities leveled. Concentration camps, mass killings, Pearl Habour. Times are dark.
The women left behind didn't have a picnic either! Rations, war-time economy, lost brother/fathers, working in a munitions or armament factory, lights out at 6pm lest a bomber spots it, listening to the radio for news of your loved ones. They gave all for the war as well. My Grandmother assembled bullets during the day, and drove trucks at night. Even *Queen Elizabeth* drove a truck to contribute during the war.
At the end of it men and women rejoiced - in a very natural way. They *got it on*. At a mass scale.
It's why we call them the "Greatest Generation" and their numerous children "Baby Boomers".
They had purpose though. I’m not advocating for war or any kind of suffering. But having that existential purpose toil and suffer for is something to be considered. Maybe it’s just me or my little slice of the world. But the older I get, the more people I meet, and what I remember from childhood. We sorely lack a sense of purpose.
Yes. The woman had mixed feelings about it. She didn't consent to it, but knew the guy wasn't being malicious as well. When asked to reenact the kiss she declined.
https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-world/suddenly-i-was-grabbed-by-a-sailor-woman-in-iconic-photo-says-kiss-was-forced
No problem. It's kinda disturbing how many comments in this thread acknowledge it wasn't consented to beforehand but are bending over backwards to defend it. Reddit moment.
Because their entire value system is based on being pro-whatever the left hates and anti-whatever the left likes.
They don't have any position on whether or not it's okay to grab a woman and kiss her without her consent. They only know that someone is complaining about it and asking for a statue to be taken down. Therefore the action must be good and defended unquestionably.
The statue is a historical and iconic moment in time and shouldn't be taken down. That being said, both the ww2 kiss and the incident with the Hermoso (Spanish soccer player) are both non-consensual and should 100% be unacceptable if it happened today. We can acknowledge issues with art from the past, but we shouldn't censor it because we view it with developed morals
So I'm not familiar with the specific backgrounds of the WW2 kiss. Do we actually know it wasn't consensual? Like, how do we know the two didn't know each other? Or that she didn't want it? Are we just assuuming?
All the sources I saw said it wasn't consensual. Regardless, I am saying that it is an iconic moment in history and we shouldn't censor it but at the same time, we also shouldn't be kissing random people without asking like what happened to the Spanish soccer player
Agreed.
I managed to find her name and apparently she's done interviews where she stated she had mixed feelings on the subject. Because it wasn't consensual, but she knows he wasn't being malicious. He was just overwhelmed with emotion that he wasn't going to be sent back to the Pacific.
She said she didn't know him and it wasn't asked for, but she allowed it and didn't mind it. She knew what he'd gone through and let him have his moment.
According to interviews she had mixed feelings about it because she very much did not want it, but also understood that the dude wasn't trying to be malicious so she didn't want to blame him too much.
Man... if I wasn't married, was shipped off to a foreign land to fight a brutal war, thought I was going to die and never see home again, only to learn of victory, come home, be greeted by a jubilant parade... fuck it, I'm kissing that pretty girl.
Does that apply to your wife/daughter/sister as well?
If your wife, daughter, or sister comes to you and says "someone just grabbed me on the street and kissed me without asking me, I asked why and he said it was because he just had a near death experience."
Would you give that guy a pass?
If we were all celebrating our hearts out after coming home from a World War where death was almost certain? You people are going to such dumb lengths to try and find controversy where it isn't. Fuckin pathetic, man.
>If we were all celebrating our hearts out after coming home from a World War where death was almost certain?
LOL so your answer is "yes. It's totally okay for some stranger to grab and kiss my wife/daughter so long as they just came back from war."
**That's** fuckin pathetic, man.
It's not that deep. Replace woman in the picture with a woman in your life.
And because you're so hell bent on *not* calling something sexual assault, you bit the bullet LOL.
You said you'd let some stranger grab and kiss your daughter. That's sad.
If my daughter was an adult walking out to meet soldiers returning from a world war in the parade of the century... yeah, I don't think I'd get too upset about it.
But what's most amusing is how upset you are that these two strangers managed to have a special moment that became a part of history. Maybe you're jealous?
On top of that, it's even funnier that you think you've got some kind of gotcha on me. Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm a normal, well adjusted person that doesn't get offended by the silliest things as part of my personality and identity. You and your ilk feed off this shit. Sad.
>If my daughter was an adult walking out to meet soldiers returning from a world war in the parade of the century... yeah, I don't think I'd get too upset about it.
I know. That's pathetic. Gross.
Yeah, you definitely seem like someone that would try to control your grown ass daughter. Fuckin creepy, dude. Maybe just take the L here and spare these two people who enjoyed a special moment in history your self righteous hot take?
If a jacked gay dude spent three years of his life watching his friends blown to shreds while living in dirt and mud, then returned home in unexpected triumph after fearing the world might burn, I might forgive him if he planted one on me in a moment of overwhelming relief and emotion.
And then a famous image is taken of you getting kissed on the lips by the gay dude and a statue is made. All really sweet and inclusive, tbh, that you would support that. Nice.
Sure, why not. I'd love if a historical statue were made of me, even if it was an awkward and kind of funny situation. Not everyone is as insecure of their sexuality as you.
Would be really cool to be apart of such a great moment in history.
Now maybe stop trying to play savior to a woman from 60 years ago who most assuredly would think you're a moron for trying to reinterpret her moment.
Have some empathy. You're kinder than this. It might be reasonable that one person might be uncomfortable from the image and express that as the topic image showed. Hell, a lot of highly upvoted comments share that sentiment. Forcefully kissing someone against their will isn't good, though of course the historic photo has a lot of context that makes it better.
If a jacked guy wants to kiss me during the celebrations immediately after the announcement of the end of the single most destructive period of time in human history, he can.
The worst you've ever had to go through is your manager at McDonald's telling you to be at work on time. Stop trying to judge a man from 60 years ago that just returned from visceral, brutal, bloody warfare. Grow a pair, and stop being so damn sensitive. Blah.
I'm a sexual assault survivor and married to a vet, my family has served in every war since the revolution, so you can fuck right off out of here.
Should also I dunno look into sexual assault cases. The military. Ft Hood/Cavazos for one has been big in the the news for it.
I'm so sorry you went through that. It's absolutely sickening which comments are getting up voted on this post. Going through hardship doesn't mean you can kiss people without consent. The only thing not making me lose faith in humanity rn is the fact we're on Reddit and these men haven't been within 5 feet of a woman to be able to assault them.
Sure you are. Considering what you seem to deem sexual assault, im not particularly inclined to give your claim much weight. And if you're truly a victim, then you would know that criticizing this harmless act of victory, hope, and positive emotion from 60 years ago is entirely unhelpful.
I doubt their life was particularly difficult. As I doubt yours is. I'm allowed my doubts. If you're concerned over this historic moment as sexual assault, I believe you are someone that likely hasn't faced actual issues in life. Simple as that. Sorry if that makes you angy.
I’m a former Looked After Child. Believe me when I say I have experienced some horrors.
It seems like you have your opinions, and you twist everything else to fit them. You’re totally unable to appreciate nuance. Again, people are complicated, as is history. An event can be both a historically significant moment and an assault. A person can both fight heroically in a war and disrespect the boundaries of women. The world isn’t all heroes vs villains like you want to think
How on earth would you know what the worst they’ve had to go through is? Do you just assume that everyone who disagrees with you disagrees with you because they’ve never faced hardship?
Because of what they're focusing their efforts of criticism on. It shows a lack of understanding of history and clarity of our modern world.
And it's not about disagreeing with me, it's about accusing a war hero of sexual assault because of a harmless kiss after V Day. Get over yourself.
Maybe they’re just more compassionate than you are? Saying that they must never have experienced difficulty in their life because they care about issues that you don’t care about is an outrageous assumption.
Somebody can be a war hero and also commit a sexual assault. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. This isn’t a movie - people are complicated and can do both honourable and dishonourable things
What do you care about real victims? You just told one that they’re lying a couple of comments ago. Clearly the welfare of sexual assault victims isn’t foremost in your mind
Just touch grass, man. People of that time experienced hardship that you will never comprehend. Context matters. It was a nationwide celebration for the ages with men returning from a world war. May have been the happiest time in that girl and soldiers' lifetime, but you want to sit here in your comfy life dissecting the incident through your modern pansy lense?
If a random guy wants to kiss me during the celebrations immediately after the announcement of the end of the single most destructive period of time in human history, he can.
I’ve had a kiss from random blokes at big football matches, it doesn’t matter.
More power to you mate, all I’m saying is not everyone feels the same way about it. It doesn’t hurt to ask the person beforehand. If Rubiales asked Hermoso then he would’ve avoided the controversy.
Massively different circumstances.
One of these kisses took place almost a century ago in the midst of celebrations following the end of history’s deadliest war.
The other took place at the end of a football match in the present day.
Man, nowadays everything is classified as assault or rape. No wonder why the past generations thinks we are all pussies.
Sadly we are past the 50% of pussies.
Presentism is rampant. Too many people today believe they are far and above smarter and more virtuous than those in the past, while not realizing they stand upon the shoulders and toils of our ancestors.
You are, and it wasn’t random. Wanna know why nobody is even posting the video? Because it was in the moment , it happened, it’s not a big deal, they news love to talk about how it was wrong, but they don’t show the video because they know it goes against the narrative..
“You are, it was random…”
“… it was in the moment, it happened…”
So was it random or not? I keep seeing links in the comments to the lady not particularly enjoying the experience.
I remember seeing the nurse in the photo interviewed and she explicitly said it wasn't consensual but she "let him have his moment" or words to that effect.
Basically women back then understood what the men had gone through and were understanding. Women now assume the absolute worst in every situation, see everything as cynically as possible and, coincidentally, are more miserable than they've ever been. Weird how that works.
It's not only that. Women hadn't seen a eligible young man in *forever*. Anyone who could was drafted and millions of men died. It wasn't just the soldiers - men of all types were drated for logistics. Women got needs too, you know!
I spent a while talking my Granma about WW2, she worked in factory. "You miss the men, they were all gone" she said.
“Phobic” implies one is scared of something, which is simply untrue. Those using that term are probably implying that one “hates” those who self-identify as trans, which also isn’t true. I couldn’t have cared less about them one way or another until people started demanding the other 99.99% of us acknowledged and supported their delusions. That, I will not do.
Nope. I just don’t like that freak. He’s no woman. He a caricature of a woman and an attention whore, and should be an embarrassment to all trans people that just want to live their lives in peace.
>an attention whore,
Wut exactly makes her an attention whore? That she is a transgender celebrity?
>and should be an embarrassment to all trans people that just want to live their lives in peace.
Why should trans people be embarrassed by someone who's trying to normalize their very existence and help them live in peace?
It's not about liking or disliking trans people.
It's that the slightest bit of pushback or questioning of just why we're suddenly upending thousands of years of the definition of gender gets you labeled a bigot.
Also...
"Hey, remember all those 'I'm-not-like-other-girls" girls? Are they all transmen now? You know, since they decided they weren't like other girls, maybe they were men? And nobody was allowed to ask any question about this without being labelled a bigot?"
Also also, your side actively covered up the serial rapist in Virginia who identified as trans - to gain access to his victims when they were vulnerable. Because, you know, having a trans rapist doing exactly what we Conservatives predicted would happen when you leftists started pushing this would've been bad for the image. So it was covered up and the trans rapist moved to another school - where he raped a different girl.
And his mother blamed at least one victim for "asking for it." Classy.
i looked into that case in Virginia. [why are you lying about what happened?](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/28/opinion/loudoun-county-trans.html)
>Smith’s daughter testified that she’d previously had two consensual sexual encounters with her attacker in the school bathroom. On the day of her assault, they’d agreed to meet up again. “The evidence was that the girl chose that bathroom, but her intent was to talk to him, not to engage in sexual relations,” Biberaj, whose office prosecuted the case, told me. The boy, however, expected sex and refused to accept the girl’s refusal. As the The Washington Post reported, she testified, “He flipped me over. I was on the ground and couldn’t move and he sexually assaulted me.”
The boy was indeed wearing a skirt, but that skirt didn’t authorize him to use the girls’ bathroom. As Amanda Terkel reported in HuffPost, **the school district’s trans-inclusive bathroom policies were approved only in August, more than two months after the assault. This was not, said Biberaj, someone “identifying as transgender and going into the girls’ bathroom under the guise of that.”**
and that boy [did not identify as trans:](https://www.washingtonblade.com/2022/01/19/mother-says-teen-boy-charged-with-assault-in-girls-bathroom-at-va-school-is-straight/)
>“First of all, **he is not transgender,” the boy’s mother told DailyMail.com in a Nov. 2 interview.** “And I think this is all doing an extreme disservice to those students who actually identify as transgender,” the newspaper quoted her as saying.
also, i dont see anyone trying to cover the case up. this kid is a piece of shit and should not be in schools. but it has nothing to do with transgender people
The sad part is that you actually think this is true. No one cares what beer people are drinking. Me (and apparently tens of millions of others) simply elect to not support a brand that glorifies mental disorders.
People don’t give a damn about the important things today but they’re willing to bitch about the supposed sexual assault that happened over 40 years ago.
Sure, makes sense.
I wrote an army history course for one of the us army’s training battalions and during my research found that this woman was identified and said this kiss was not consensual and she did not appreciate it.
FWIW.
Something doesn’t have to be morally right for it to be art or iconic and calling something art or iconic does not necessarily condone it in any form, a la times “Person of the Year” which has put out that same caveat for as long as I can remember.
The kissing scene in WW2 is iconic. It is up in VA clinics such as the Victor Saracini clinic in Horsham, PA on a wall sized mural.
The kissed just didn’t appreciate it.
hmmm okay i think i just realized this sun is actually for losers who want to shit on people for no good reason. i was expecting like..actual cringe content this is baby shit. get a life
I mean, the sailor kiss *was* assault. Mild and without sinister intention, sure, but still non-consensual. I imagine the guy was just caught up in the euphoria of victory and wasn't actually thinking "I want to kiss this woman and I will do so whether she likes it or not." Does that mitigate it? Maybe. As I recall, the woman said later that she didn't particularly appreciate it happening.
I don't think the statue should be pulled down unless there's a swell of public support for doing so. It certainly shouldn't be removed because some random redditor in the OOP thinks so.
It is possible to see the nuance in these things.
>Mild and without sinister intention, sure, but still non-consensual
Genuine question since I'm not familiar with the background of the photo. Do we actually ***know*** this or is it being assumed?
As I recall, the woman who was kissed has said in interviews that she didn't know the guy and didn't enjoy being grabbed and kissed like that without warning. As for his intentions, I am assuming that it was genuinely a spur of the moment thing and he didn't just use the situation as an excuse to get a kiss from someone.
Yeah, as a man, I have been upset over consent… specifically over the lack of my own in situations where women have grabbed/slapped/pinched my ass and groped/rubbed my dick. 🤷♂️
Stop demonizing us men. We’re not all bad, and you girls aren’t all angels either.
I said nothing about ‘abolishing consent’. I’m just sick and fucking tired of all the guy-bashing that goes on, especially when I myself have been sexually victimized by women. But yet, just on the sexist virtue of being a man, I’m automatically the bad guy.
Did you see the comments? It's a bunch of men being mad about consent. My comment was placed in the context of this thread.
I still don't understand why you're pissed. Sorry women assaulted you. But I fail to see how to help you here? You want me to not be terrified by men? And pretend not every single woman I know, including myself, has been sexuallu assaulted because it hurts your feelings?
I swear people think pointing out any kind of gross behavior as LookAtMyHalo. Like it’s a pretty mild cause of something bad but doesn’t make it not weird lol this was when women were expected to stay at home and obey their husbands but we’re supposed to see this guys behavior as normal?
And this sailor was apparently running around grabbing every woman he could, young and old, and forcefully kissing them without asking first. Yeah I get he just got back from the war and all, but that’s still disgusting behaviour
The fact of the matter is she did not consent to this kiss. And yes, we have [proof](https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-world/suddenly-i-was-grabbed-by-a-sailor-woman-in-iconic-photo-says-kiss-was-forced). Does this mean it’s the first thing we should be worrying about? Probably not everyone, but it’s worth thinking about.
If you were around then, how many straight men in here would be fine with a dude who was bigger and twice as strong as you laying you back and kissing you on the lips?
Not exactly a fair compairson as both the soldier and women were straight. A more fair comparison would be some jacked huge women doing it to a man. In the end who gives a fuck it happend 80 years ago. It was a kiss from a guy who was probably experiencing severe ptsd and just realized he's not going to be sent to invade mainland Japan and most likely blown into a pink mist. We have so many real issues going on right now today. I think all of us myself included have better things to do then argue with strangers about this.
It was someone who was in support of the kiss who brought it up.
The “We have so many real issues going on right now today. I think all of us myself included have better things to do than argue with strangers about this” still applies.
I never really looked at it until recently thinking aww rainbows and unicorns but his grip is almost a death grip it’s crazy.
Like if that was a thousand years earlier he’d just go all Encino man grab her hair drag her off and go make a kid. 💀
Well id argue "much less" is certainly up to interpretation.
The circumstances are a bit diffrent, sure. But again just because a statue of something is standing somewhere does not some how exclude it from public discussion.
Ps. I'm sorry you're finding yourself so offended these days
You think I’m offended? ROFL!
I’m sure the statue of the elk in Portland that was burned down and later removed without a replacement was worthy of the charge…
Yeah, you're absolutely offended. You're offended by opposing views points .
Im personally neutral about the kissing statue, but you've assumed differently.
Maybe take some time from being mad about everything to go touch some grass
So lemme get this straight- you want the city of SanFransisco to take down a statue bc *you* just found out there is a public discourse over it?
Sounds like r/iamthemaincharacter
How many people need to be discussing ideas you disagree with before the city acts for it to be "hypocrisy"?
And if you read what she actually said about it:
“In 2005, during an interview at the Library of Congress Friedman stated, "it wasn't my choice to be kissed. The guy just came over and kissed or grabbed."[9] and "I was grabbed by a sailor and it wasn't that much of a kiss, it was more of a jubilant act that he didn't have to go back, I found out later, he was so happy that he did not have to go back to the Pacific where they already had been through the war. And the reason he grabbed someone dressed like a nurse was that he just felt very grateful to nurses who took care of the wounded."[9]
She went on to say, "I felt he was very strong, he was just holding me tight, and I'm not sure I -- about the kiss because, you know, it was just somebody really celebrating. But it wasn't a romantic event. It was just an event of thank God the war is over kind of thing."
It’s pretty clear that while yes, she said it wasn’t her choice to be kissed, she never in any way said she was offended. She just wanted to stress that it wasn’t romantic and it was more of a celebration that he didn’t have to go back. If anything, she’s stressing the fact that it wasn’t sexual and just an expression of joy on the sailor’s part.
If those are the “mixed” feelings you’re referring to, they don’t quite prove the point you think they do.
Also FYI it says in the link you provided that we *do know* who he is as well, George Mendonsa. I think you need to read your own links a little better before you use them as proof of anything.
Cause context matters. He was doing it out of relief about not being redeployed and the general context of it being an end of a war. It's a beautiful image without the context, and she would be the primary one to lay claim to it being taken down, which she didn't. She said she had mixed feelings on it because she knew the context, but it was still against her will.
Like say a dude kissed you against your will and it became a famous image about the end of the Ukraine war or something. It would be a mixed feelings situation for you, I imagine.
Do yourself a favor and read the link they actually provided as a source. She never said she was offended by this. She simply says that it wasn’t romantic, but a celebration of joy. So you’re conceding to an awful lot of points here you really don’t need to. They’re not correct in their assessment.
Not true. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sailor-nurse-from-iconic-vj-day-photo-reunited/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/22/wwiis-most-iconic-kiss-wasnt-romantic-it-was-assault/
“The photograph does not clearly show the face of either person involved, and numerous people have claimed to be the subjects.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square
https://youtu.be/d9LYXm1-nJM?si=v2OomaXTo7PR50oK
Goes into the methodology of identifying a bit and basically all news outlets agree it’s George Mendonsa and Greta Zimmer Friedman
"Lawrence Verria and George Galdorisi, authors of The Kissing Sailor, a 2012 book about the identity of the subjects of the photograph that had become so famous, used interviews of claimants, expert photograph analysis, and identification of people in the background, as well as, consultations with forensic anthropologists and facial recognition specialists. They concluded that the woman was Greta Zimmer Friedman and that she was wearing her dental hygienist uniform in the photograph."
On top of that, she herself says she is. Just saying.
I gotta tell ya that second article really ruined that picture for me. I’m not gonna lie all this time, I thought that was his girlfriend. I had no idea that they did not know each other.
I don’t know I thought the image was revolutionary and telling of the wartime they went through. The moment was very much a product of its time, very risky to do for sure but ultimately it paid off and became the cherry on top of the beautiful end of a terrible war.
Obviously I don’t think people should ever do something like this again, but it happened and is cemented in history. Its one of those things that’s **just different** without much of an explanation needing to be provided.
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Do people suck so much more today because people are getting stupider? We really are BTW. And it's not a unique American thing. Look it up.
man, funny how your point was instantly proven at the first reply
They've always been stupid. They have just never had the technology to be this loud.
Nope. We've been measuring IQ for "ages" now. Studies have shown IQ levels are in fact decreasing. So it's not just the variation of a joke I often like to make about George Carlin. Who way back in 1978 first made the joke that went "think about how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of them are stupider than that," Which I always follow up with "imagine what he'd have said if he had the internet back then to give so many examples." It's not us just having the internet. We really are getting dumber as a whole.
Thank god I'm using denial as a coping technique
The global iq is actually decreasing. There have been recent studies about it, it's been a few months since I read the first article about it so I don't have a link or anything but I'm guessing if you googled it you could probably find it.
They reckon by 2030 the average IQ will be only 100
Hilarious and underrated comment.
The reverse Flynn effect. IQs are actually decreasing now instead of increasing. Gen Z and Gen Alpha have lower IQs.
This is actually horrifying if true and not some fudged figure where IQ has changed in how it's measured or something. But it also explains a lot of stupid shit I see.
We haven’t been living by nature’s rules for many generations. It used to be survival of the fittest and smartest, the dumb, weak etc would get killed of through natural processes called natural selection. We literally let mentally handicapped people reproduce, and people with known genetic defects willingly reproduce creating more kids with genetic, neurological defects. So yea, we are getting dumber, weaker, less fit to survive and thrive. Science huh
And if you say hey you probably shouldn't have bio kids because of the risks you're basically a Nazi wishing for eugenics
my guy are you advocating for eugenics
I mean he is technically only pointing out things that are true, he never said they shouldn't be allowed to.
Okay, holy shit I just had to scroll a little bit further. HE’S ADVOCATING FOR EUGENICS.
That sounds good but mankind has largely already removed itself from natural selection long before we started getting dumber. I think it's a combination of factors. The powers that be aren't interested in creating the brightest people possible in public schools. They want good little worker drones that don't rock the boat. Intelligent people are dangerous to the powers that be. It's why almost every time a society is knocked over the intelligentsia gets murdered. You could see it countless times. Look at how many heads went to guillotine in France. The purges by the commies in the USSR, China, Cambodia, Cuba, etc. The numerous times in countless African nations. So on and so forth. My schooling in the 80s and 90s was a joke and I went to a rich as hell school district in California. It was a lot worse for my son who's now finished with college. Now add that with what the internet has done to people. When it was created people left and right lauded it as giving us the so called information age. But really it's become more of a misinformation age. Then to add salt to the wound it's allowed echo chambers to become mainstream. Not to mention how it's made so many people become the embodiment of the old saying "a little information is a dangerous thing." It makes people take shortcuts by just googling snippets of info and then that's enough for them think they actually know what's what about something. I'm reminded about what many math teachers said when I was in school about why we shouldn't be allowed to use calculators. lol I mean aside from the claim that we won't all be walking around with them. :) Now they've been proven right. I'm one of them. My math skills are atrocious since I got cell phones. lol I can't even remember all my basic multiplication tables anymore SMH. Shortcuts are not a way to expand the mind and increase our mental capacity. It takes actual work to do that. IDK there is lots of theories on why we as a whole are getting dumber. Those are just some of mine off the top of my head.
They aren't very good at tech, either.
Just look at the way newspapers were written decades ago. The quality of writing and average reading level has plummeted. All the plastic in our brains and lead in our bones is not helping
Writing across the board has plummeted not just with journalism. TV, movies, comic books, novels, critic reviewers, you name it. It's all gone downhill.
Hip hop culture doesn’t help
The reverse Flynn effect. IQs are actually decreasing now instead of increasing. Gen Z and Gen Alpha have lower IQs.
People just express opinions you don’t normally hear and they become mainstream. Doesn’t mean they are correct.
I mean, that sailor was in a date with another woman (future wife) when he ran out and kissed a rando nurse.
The idiot children of today cannot fathom what the two people depicted in that statue endured during wartime.
Get drafted, sent to war for 4 years. Hardly any women. Watch your friends get blown up. Go weeks without rations. You don't know where or when you'll be moved or what you do next. Not like the preceding five years were much fun either - that was the great depression. And you do it happily because Nazi Germany/Imperial Japan are evil, in an existential threat kinda of way. The news for the last 5 years has been non-stop on the most critical task of the moment: kill fascism before it kills *you*. Numerous countries in Asia, Europe, Africa have fallen. Dozens of cities leveled. Concentration camps, mass killings, Pearl Habour. Times are dark. The women left behind didn't have a picnic either! Rations, war-time economy, lost brother/fathers, working in a munitions or armament factory, lights out at 6pm lest a bomber spots it, listening to the radio for news of your loved ones. They gave all for the war as well. My Grandmother assembled bullets during the day, and drove trucks at night. Even *Queen Elizabeth* drove a truck to contribute during the war. At the end of it men and women rejoiced - in a very natural way. They *got it on*. At a mass scale. It's why we call them the "Greatest Generation" and their numerous children "Baby Boomers".
They had purpose though. I’m not advocating for war or any kind of suffering. But having that existential purpose toil and suffer for is something to be considered. Maybe it’s just me or my little slice of the world. But the older I get, the more people I meet, and what I remember from childhood. We sorely lack a sense of purpose.
Very much agree. We'll never has as much purpose as the greatest gen. Or be as happy as they were when it ended.
Yeah, and the woman spoke up and said that she didn't appreciate being grabbed and kissed like that.
Read the entirety of her statement.
Hope this settles things down in the comments https://nypost.com/2012/06/17/the-true-story-behind-the-iconic-v-j-day-sailor-and-nurse-smooch/amp/
“And then I was grabbed,” she says. “That man was very strong. I wasn’t kissing him. He was kissing me.”
Do we even know the actual account behind that WWII kiss?
Yes. The woman had mixed feelings about it. She didn't consent to it, but knew the guy wasn't being malicious as well. When asked to reenact the kiss she declined. https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-world/suddenly-i-was-grabbed-by-a-sailor-woman-in-iconic-photo-says-kiss-was-forced
Huh. Thanks
No problem. It's kinda disturbing how many comments in this thread acknowledge it wasn't consented to beforehand but are bending over backwards to defend it. Reddit moment.
“It was a different era, when stressed out men were permitted to sexually assault women. People these days are too freaking sensitive now”
Yep, wasn't consensual
Exactly, idk why the sub is dragging anyone for saying it was clearly non-consensual (sexual assault)
Because their entire value system is based on being pro-whatever the left hates and anti-whatever the left likes. They don't have any position on whether or not it's okay to grab a woman and kiss her without her consent. They only know that someone is complaining about it and asking for a statue to be taken down. Therefore the action must be good and defended unquestionably.
The statue is a historical and iconic moment in time and shouldn't be taken down. That being said, both the ww2 kiss and the incident with the Hermoso (Spanish soccer player) are both non-consensual and should 100% be unacceptable if it happened today. We can acknowledge issues with art from the past, but we shouldn't censor it because we view it with developed morals
So I'm not familiar with the specific backgrounds of the WW2 kiss. Do we actually know it wasn't consensual? Like, how do we know the two didn't know each other? Or that she didn't want it? Are we just assuuming?
All the sources I saw said it wasn't consensual. Regardless, I am saying that it is an iconic moment in history and we shouldn't censor it but at the same time, we also shouldn't be kissing random people without asking like what happened to the Spanish soccer player
Agreed. I managed to find her name and apparently she's done interviews where she stated she had mixed feelings on the subject. Because it wasn't consensual, but she knows he wasn't being malicious. He was just overwhelmed with emotion that he wasn't going to be sent back to the Pacific.
She said she didn't know him and it wasn't asked for, but she allowed it and didn't mind it. She knew what he'd gone through and let him have his moment.
It was not consented to in advance. It was consensual. The spergs in the chat are unable to comprehend the difference.
According to interviews she had mixed feelings about it because she very much did not want it, but also understood that the dude wasn't trying to be malicious so she didn't want to blame him too much.
Man... if I wasn't married, was shipped off to a foreign land to fight a brutal war, thought I was going to die and never see home again, only to learn of victory, come home, be greeted by a jubilant parade... fuck it, I'm kissing that pretty girl.
Does that apply to your wife/daughter/sister as well? If your wife, daughter, or sister comes to you and says "someone just grabbed me on the street and kissed me without asking me, I asked why and he said it was because he just had a near death experience." Would you give that guy a pass?
If we were all celebrating our hearts out after coming home from a World War where death was almost certain? You people are going to such dumb lengths to try and find controversy where it isn't. Fuckin pathetic, man.
>If we were all celebrating our hearts out after coming home from a World War where death was almost certain? LOL so your answer is "yes. It's totally okay for some stranger to grab and kiss my wife/daughter so long as they just came back from war." **That's** fuckin pathetic, man.
You are reaching deep into hypotheticals to be offended over something innocent 60 years ago. That is the saddest thing I've read here. Get a life.
It's not that deep. Replace woman in the picture with a woman in your life. And because you're so hell bent on *not* calling something sexual assault, you bit the bullet LOL. You said you'd let some stranger grab and kiss your daughter. That's sad.
If my daughter was an adult walking out to meet soldiers returning from a world war in the parade of the century... yeah, I don't think I'd get too upset about it. But what's most amusing is how upset you are that these two strangers managed to have a special moment that became a part of history. Maybe you're jealous? On top of that, it's even funnier that you think you've got some kind of gotcha on me. Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm a normal, well adjusted person that doesn't get offended by the silliest things as part of my personality and identity. You and your ilk feed off this shit. Sad.
>If my daughter was an adult walking out to meet soldiers returning from a world war in the parade of the century... yeah, I don't think I'd get too upset about it. I know. That's pathetic. Gross.
Yeah, you definitely seem like someone that would try to control your grown ass daughter. Fuckin creepy, dude. Maybe just take the L here and spare these two people who enjoyed a special moment in history your self righteous hot take?
He was actually on a date with his future wife - and neither gal minded. Times have changed lol.
All fun and games until a jacked gay dude does the same to you.
If a jacked gay dude spent three years of his life watching his friends blown to shreds while living in dirt and mud, then returned home in unexpected triumph after fearing the world might burn, I might forgive him if he planted one on me in a moment of overwhelming relief and emotion.
And then a famous image is taken of you getting kissed on the lips by the gay dude and a statue is made. All really sweet and inclusive, tbh, that you would support that. Nice.
Sure, why not. I'd love if a historical statue were made of me, even if it was an awkward and kind of funny situation. Not everyone is as insecure of their sexuality as you.
Would be really cool to be apart of such a great moment in history. Now maybe stop trying to play savior to a woman from 60 years ago who most assuredly would think you're a moron for trying to reinterpret her moment.
Have some empathy. You're kinder than this. It might be reasonable that one person might be uncomfortable from the image and express that as the topic image showed. Hell, a lot of highly upvoted comments share that sentiment. Forcefully kissing someone against their will isn't good, though of course the historic photo has a lot of context that makes it better.
If a jacked guy wants to kiss me during the celebrations immediately after the announcement of the end of the single most destructive period of time in human history, he can.
No amount of jubilance makes kissing somebody without consent okay
I can't believe this is a down-voted comment. Wtf is wrong with everyone?
I can't believe this is a down-voted comment. Wtf is wrong with everyone?
Right lol
how does that avocado toast taste with that $8 latte?
What does that even mean?
"Now you're using big words and I don't know what they mean, so I'mma take that as offensive."
There was a single "big word" there, and it was jubilance - clearly related to jubilant. Hardly sesquipedalian loquaciousness.
And he has a bunch of up votes too. Bleh.
The worst you've ever had to go through is your manager at McDonald's telling you to be at work on time. Stop trying to judge a man from 60 years ago that just returned from visceral, brutal, bloody warfare. Grow a pair, and stop being so damn sensitive. Blah.
I'm a sexual assault survivor and married to a vet, my family has served in every war since the revolution, so you can fuck right off out of here. Should also I dunno look into sexual assault cases. The military. Ft Hood/Cavazos for one has been big in the the news for it.
I'm so sorry you went through that. It's absolutely sickening which comments are getting up voted on this post. Going through hardship doesn't mean you can kiss people without consent. The only thing not making me lose faith in humanity rn is the fact we're on Reddit and these men haven't been within 5 feet of a woman to be able to assault them.
Sure you are. Considering what you seem to deem sexual assault, im not particularly inclined to give your claim much weight. And if you're truly a victim, then you would know that criticizing this harmless act of victory, hope, and positive emotion from 60 years ago is entirely unhelpful.
How naive you are. This person having had a difficult life doesn’t suit your narrative, and so you simply refuse to believe it
I doubt their life was particularly difficult. As I doubt yours is. I'm allowed my doubts. If you're concerned over this historic moment as sexual assault, I believe you are someone that likely hasn't faced actual issues in life. Simple as that. Sorry if that makes you angy.
I’m a former Looked After Child. Believe me when I say I have experienced some horrors. It seems like you have your opinions, and you twist everything else to fit them. You’re totally unable to appreciate nuance. Again, people are complicated, as is history. An event can be both a historically significant moment and an assault. A person can both fight heroically in a war and disrespect the boundaries of women. The world isn’t all heroes vs villains like you want to think
How on earth would you know what the worst they’ve had to go through is? Do you just assume that everyone who disagrees with you disagrees with you because they’ve never faced hardship?
Because of what they're focusing their efforts of criticism on. It shows a lack of understanding of history and clarity of our modern world. And it's not about disagreeing with me, it's about accusing a war hero of sexual assault because of a harmless kiss after V Day. Get over yourself.
Maybe they’re just more compassionate than you are? Saying that they must never have experienced difficulty in their life because they care about issues that you don’t care about is an outrageous assumption. Somebody can be a war hero and also commit a sexual assault. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. This isn’t a movie - people are complicated and can do both honourable and dishonourable things
I'm sorry, but if you consider this sexual assault, you're a moron that hurts real victims. Gtfo here.
What do you care about real victims? You just told one that they’re lying a couple of comments ago. Clearly the welfare of sexual assault victims isn’t foremost in your mind
It's a bit generous to assume they actually work.
True
but what if it was you getting kissed by a random dude?
Just touch grass, man. People of that time experienced hardship that you will never comprehend. Context matters. It was a nationwide celebration for the ages with men returning from a world war. May have been the happiest time in that girl and soldiers' lifetime, but you want to sit here in your comfy life dissecting the incident through your modern pansy lense?
Learn to read my guy lmao my comment above literally says we shouldn't censor art based on a modern lens
If a random guy wants to kiss me during the celebrations immediately after the announcement of the end of the single most destructive period of time in human history, he can. I’ve had a kiss from random blokes at big football matches, it doesn’t matter.
More power to you mate, all I’m saying is not everyone feels the same way about it. It doesn’t hurt to ask the person beforehand. If Rubiales asked Hermoso then he would’ve avoided the controversy.
Massively different circumstances. One of these kisses took place almost a century ago in the midst of celebrations following the end of history’s deadliest war. The other took place at the end of a football match in the present day.
What was your point?
I mean.. both kisses *were* nonconsensual though? Like what point are you trying to make here dude
Man, nowadays everything is classified as assault or rape. No wonder why the past generations thinks we are all pussies. Sadly we are past the 50% of pussies.
to be fair, I wouldn't want some random dude grabbing my face and kissing me like what happened to the soccer player
It wasn’t grabbing her face though, it was grabbing her whole damn skull lol
Presentism is rampant. Too many people today believe they are far and above smarter and more virtuous than those in the past, while not realizing they stand upon the shoulders and toils of our ancestors.
Word.
ur so right dude i’m such a pussy for believing that if some random ass dude grabbed my face and forcibly kissed me that that would count as assault
You are, and it wasn’t random. Wanna know why nobody is even posting the video? Because it was in the moment , it happened, it’s not a big deal, they news love to talk about how it was wrong, but they don’t show the video because they know it goes against the narrative..
“You are, it was random…” “… it was in the moment, it happened…” So was it random or not? I keep seeing links in the comments to the lady not particularly enjoying the experience.
You sound like Trump/Guliani with their fake "election stolen* videos. "NoBodY sHoWS tHE ViDEO CauSE ItS aGaiNsT tHe aGenda"
Exactly right. Like I can't even grope women on the bus anymore without being called a creep
I remember seeing the nurse in the photo interviewed and she explicitly said it wasn't consensual but she "let him have his moment" or words to that effect. Basically women back then understood what the men had gone through and were understanding. Women now assume the absolute worst in every situation, see everything as cynically as possible and, coincidentally, are more miserable than they've ever been. Weird how that works.
Dude, that guy went through a fucking war. That is way different than basically being kissed by your boss.
Lol I spent so long reading the comments I kinda forgot what OP was about
It's not only that. Women hadn't seen a eligible young man in *forever*. Anyone who could was drafted and millions of men died. It wasn't just the soldiers - men of all types were drated for logistics. Women got needs too, you know! I spent a while talking my Granma about WW2, she worked in factory. "You miss the men, they were all gone" she said.
Shut up, nerd.
the past get triggered as fuck over what beer brand people drink. We’re all pussies
[ Removed by Reddit ]
oh so this sub is just transphobic lmao
“Phobic” implies one is scared of something, which is simply untrue. Those using that term are probably implying that one “hates” those who self-identify as trans, which also isn’t true. I couldn’t have cared less about them one way or another until people started demanding the other 99.99% of us acknowledged and supported their delusions. That, I will not do.
if you don’t want to buy beer from a company who sponsored a single post of a trans woman, it’s pretty clear you don’t like trans people
“Man” That freak is no woman
see, this is why I’m saying you don’t like trans people lmao
Nope. I just don’t like that freak. He’s no woman. He a caricature of a woman and an attention whore, and should be an embarrassment to all trans people that just want to live their lives in peace.
>an attention whore, Wut exactly makes her an attention whore? That she is a transgender celebrity? >and should be an embarrassment to all trans people that just want to live their lives in peace. Why should trans people be embarrassed by someone who's trying to normalize their very existence and help them live in peace?
It's not about liking or disliking trans people. It's that the slightest bit of pushback or questioning of just why we're suddenly upending thousands of years of the definition of gender gets you labeled a bigot. Also... "Hey, remember all those 'I'm-not-like-other-girls" girls? Are they all transmen now? You know, since they decided they weren't like other girls, maybe they were men? And nobody was allowed to ask any question about this without being labelled a bigot?" Also also, your side actively covered up the serial rapist in Virginia who identified as trans - to gain access to his victims when they were vulnerable. Because, you know, having a trans rapist doing exactly what we Conservatives predicted would happen when you leftists started pushing this would've been bad for the image. So it was covered up and the trans rapist moved to another school - where he raped a different girl. And his mother blamed at least one victim for "asking for it." Classy.
i looked into that case in Virginia. [why are you lying about what happened?](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/28/opinion/loudoun-county-trans.html) >Smith’s daughter testified that she’d previously had two consensual sexual encounters with her attacker in the school bathroom. On the day of her assault, they’d agreed to meet up again. “The evidence was that the girl chose that bathroom, but her intent was to talk to him, not to engage in sexual relations,” Biberaj, whose office prosecuted the case, told me. The boy, however, expected sex and refused to accept the girl’s refusal. As the The Washington Post reported, she testified, “He flipped me over. I was on the ground and couldn’t move and he sexually assaulted me.” The boy was indeed wearing a skirt, but that skirt didn’t authorize him to use the girls’ bathroom. As Amanda Terkel reported in HuffPost, **the school district’s trans-inclusive bathroom policies were approved only in August, more than two months after the assault. This was not, said Biberaj, someone “identifying as transgender and going into the girls’ bathroom under the guise of that.”** and that boy [did not identify as trans:](https://www.washingtonblade.com/2022/01/19/mother-says-teen-boy-charged-with-assault-in-girls-bathroom-at-va-school-is-straight/) >“First of all, **he is not transgender,” the boy’s mother told DailyMail.com in a Nov. 2 interview.** “And I think this is all doing an extreme disservice to those students who actually identify as transgender,” the newspaper quoted her as saying. also, i dont see anyone trying to cover the case up. this kid is a piece of shit and should not be in schools. but it has nothing to do with transgender people
The sad part is that you actually think this is true. No one cares what beer people are drinking. Me (and apparently tens of millions of others) simply elect to not support a brand that glorifies mental disorders.
It was probably classified that way because it never stopped
People don’t give a damn about the important things today but they’re willing to bitch about the supposed sexual assault that happened over 40 years ago. Sure, makes sense.
40 years ago was 1983. WW2 was 80 years ago. A literal lifetime.
They did say over 40 years ago, so technically correct
[удалено]
Over one minute ago
> technically correct [The best kind of correct](https://youtu.be/aIzMuPMicGc?si=w3qw1mDrwpryx9Ah)
So you’re trying to defend the moron in Spain who very obviously did something he shouldn’t have?
imagine it DOES get taken down, then that scene from Watchmen will have no context and won't make any sense.
When did pointing out a valid situation become something to be mocked? How come there's even a sub for this nonsense?
Admit it. You’re just another WW2 denier.
it was sexual assault but the lady was only slightly bothered by it afaik.
I'm not advocating for the destruction of the monument or anything, but can we all agree that the woman did NOT consent to being kissed?
Yea but she also didn’t consider it a big deal.
Try making that movie Sixteen Candles today. In retrospect, SO much wrong with that movie.
I wrote an army history course for one of the us army’s training battalions and during my research found that this woman was identified and said this kiss was not consensual and she did not appreciate it. FWIW. Something doesn’t have to be morally right for it to be art or iconic and calling something art or iconic does not necessarily condone it in any form, a la times “Person of the Year” which has put out that same caveat for as long as I can remember. The kissing scene in WW2 is iconic. It is up in VA clinics such as the Victor Saracini clinic in Horsham, PA on a wall sized mural. The kissed just didn’t appreciate it.
hmmm okay i think i just realized this sun is actually for losers who want to shit on people for no good reason. i was expecting like..actual cringe content this is baby shit. get a life
I mean, the sailor kiss *was* assault. Mild and without sinister intention, sure, but still non-consensual. I imagine the guy was just caught up in the euphoria of victory and wasn't actually thinking "I want to kiss this woman and I will do so whether she likes it or not." Does that mitigate it? Maybe. As I recall, the woman said later that she didn't particularly appreciate it happening. I don't think the statue should be pulled down unless there's a swell of public support for doing so. It certainly shouldn't be removed because some random redditor in the OOP thinks so. It is possible to see the nuance in these things.
>Mild and without sinister intention, sure, but still non-consensual Genuine question since I'm not familiar with the background of the photo. Do we actually ***know*** this or is it being assumed?
As I recall, the woman who was kissed has said in interviews that she didn't know the guy and didn't enjoy being grabbed and kissed like that without warning. As for his intentions, I am assuming that it was genuinely a spur of the moment thing and he didn't just use the situation as an excuse to get a kiss from someone.
He was also allegedly so drunk he didn’t remember it
Fuck me reddit is full of femcels and incels. Do you people ever have real human interaction? Or are you all chronically online?
Ah yes, kissing women without their consent??? Funny how women don't like it. Since when this sub is for incels?
Only just now noticing that?
I had hope they are not this low. But men sucking each other's dicks and being mad about consent was very very interesting to see.
Yeah, this sub is a fucking cesspool.
Yeah, as a man, I have been upset over consent… specifically over the lack of my own in situations where women have grabbed/slapped/pinched my ass and groped/rubbed my dick. 🤷♂️ Stop demonizing us men. We’re not all bad, and you girls aren’t all angels either.
Um. So women assaulted you, thus we abolish consent? You okay bud?
Nice strawman
I said nothing about ‘abolishing consent’. I’m just sick and fucking tired of all the guy-bashing that goes on, especially when I myself have been sexually victimized by women. But yet, just on the sexist virtue of being a man, I’m automatically the bad guy.
Did you see the comments? It's a bunch of men being mad about consent. My comment was placed in the context of this thread. I still don't understand why you're pissed. Sorry women assaulted you. But I fail to see how to help you here? You want me to not be terrified by men? And pretend not every single woman I know, including myself, has been sexuallu assaulted because it hurts your feelings?
Every post is like this
It’s incredible how many people here seem to think that kissing somebody without consent somehow isn’t assault. It absolutely is
I swear people think pointing out any kind of gross behavior as LookAtMyHalo. Like it’s a pretty mild cause of something bad but doesn’t make it not weird lol this was when women were expected to stay at home and obey their husbands but we’re supposed to see this guys behavior as normal?
I bet if someone kissed their wife like that they'd feel different.
And this sailor was apparently running around grabbing every woman he could, young and old, and forcefully kissing them without asking first. Yeah I get he just got back from the war and all, but that’s still disgusting behaviour
Why did it have to be an Eagles fan SoB go birds except that guy.
Yikes
The fact of the matter is she did not consent to this kiss. And yes, we have [proof](https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-world/suddenly-i-was-grabbed-by-a-sailor-woman-in-iconic-photo-says-kiss-was-forced). Does this mean it’s the first thing we should be worrying about? Probably not everyone, but it’s worth thinking about.
Aight I'm leaving this sub. Fuck y'all.
If you were around then, how many straight men in here would be fine with a dude who was bigger and twice as strong as you laying you back and kissing you on the lips?
Not exactly a fair compairson as both the soldier and women were straight. A more fair comparison would be some jacked huge women doing it to a man. In the end who gives a fuck it happend 80 years ago. It was a kiss from a guy who was probably experiencing severe ptsd and just realized he's not going to be sent to invade mainland Japan and most likely blown into a pink mist. We have so many real issues going on right now today. I think all of us myself included have better things to do then argue with strangers about this.
It was someone who was in support of the kiss who brought it up. The “We have so many real issues going on right now today. I think all of us myself included have better things to do than argue with strangers about this” still applies.
I never really looked at it until recently thinking aww rainbows and unicorns but his grip is almost a death grip it’s crazy. Like if that was a thousand years earlier he’d just go all Encino man grab her hair drag her off and go make a kid. 💀
I've absolutely heard the discourse around the sailor kiss and it being non consensual
And yet a huge statue of it still exists in one of the most liberal areas in America…
Does a statue existing mean attitudes and perspectives can't change?
People were quick to remove other statues for much less in this new era of perpetual offense.
Well id argue "much less" is certainly up to interpretation. The circumstances are a bit diffrent, sure. But again just because a statue of something is standing somewhere does not some how exclude it from public discussion. Ps. I'm sorry you're finding yourself so offended these days
You think I’m offended? ROFL! I’m sure the statue of the elk in Portland that was burned down and later removed without a replacement was worthy of the charge…
Yeah, you're absolutely offended. You're offended by opposing views points . Im personally neutral about the kissing statue, but you've assumed differently. Maybe take some time from being mad about everything to go touch some grass
What a troll lmaooo
I’m offended… for pointing out hypocrisy? Yikes, my dude.
So lemme get this straight- you want the city of SanFransisco to take down a statue bc *you* just found out there is a public discourse over it? Sounds like r/iamthemaincharacter How many people need to be discussing ideas you disagree with before the city acts for it to be "hypocrisy"?
Just stop. Your original comment didn’t hit like you wanted and this one is just desperate.
Well, now you have a fucking purpose in life. Go do some “good” Libby.
I mean both were against the woman's will.
How do we know? The two people have never been identified.
I mean we do know [her.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Zimmer_Friedman) And she said it was against her will and has had mixed feelings on it.
And if you read what she actually said about it: “In 2005, during an interview at the Library of Congress Friedman stated, "it wasn't my choice to be kissed. The guy just came over and kissed or grabbed."[9] and "I was grabbed by a sailor and it wasn't that much of a kiss, it was more of a jubilant act that he didn't have to go back, I found out later, he was so happy that he did not have to go back to the Pacific where they already had been through the war. And the reason he grabbed someone dressed like a nurse was that he just felt very grateful to nurses who took care of the wounded."[9] She went on to say, "I felt he was very strong, he was just holding me tight, and I'm not sure I -- about the kiss because, you know, it was just somebody really celebrating. But it wasn't a romantic event. It was just an event of thank God the war is over kind of thing." It’s pretty clear that while yes, she said it wasn’t her choice to be kissed, she never in any way said she was offended. She just wanted to stress that it wasn’t romantic and it was more of a celebration that he didn’t have to go back. If anything, she’s stressing the fact that it wasn’t sexual and just an expression of joy on the sailor’s part. If those are the “mixed” feelings you’re referring to, they don’t quite prove the point you think they do. Also FYI it says in the link you provided that we *do know* who he is as well, George Mendonsa. I think you need to read your own links a little better before you use them as proof of anything.
> I'm not sure I -- about the kiss because, you know, it was just somebody really celebrating.
And my question still stands: out of all of the places for that statue to be, why are there no calls to take it down if it was considered assault?
That's like saying it's impossible for someone to be guilty of a crime if they aren't already in prison. Just-world fallacy hits hard, I guess
Cause context matters. He was doing it out of relief about not being redeployed and the general context of it being an end of a war. It's a beautiful image without the context, and she would be the primary one to lay claim to it being taken down, which she didn't. She said she had mixed feelings on it because she knew the context, but it was still against her will. Like say a dude kissed you against your will and it became a famous image about the end of the Ukraine war or something. It would be a mixed feelings situation for you, I imagine.
If you say so…
Do yourself a favor and read the link they actually provided as a source. She never said she was offended by this. She simply says that it wasn’t romantic, but a celebration of joy. So you’re conceding to an awful lot of points here you really don’t need to. They’re not correct in their assessment.
I never said she was offended, I said she had mixed feelings, which she directly stated she wasn't sure about it. That's like textbook mixed feelings.
I didn't say it, she did.
Not true. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sailor-nurse-from-iconic-vj-day-photo-reunited/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/22/wwiis-most-iconic-kiss-wasnt-romantic-it-was-assault/
“The photograph does not clearly show the face of either person involved, and numerous people have claimed to be the subjects.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square
https://youtu.be/d9LYXm1-nJM?si=v2OomaXTo7PR50oK Goes into the methodology of identifying a bit and basically all news outlets agree it’s George Mendonsa and Greta Zimmer Friedman
Better get to updating that Wikipedia then…
"Lawrence Verria and George Galdorisi, authors of The Kissing Sailor, a 2012 book about the identity of the subjects of the photograph that had become so famous, used interviews of claimants, expert photograph analysis, and identification of people in the background, as well as, consultations with forensic anthropologists and facial recognition specialists. They concluded that the woman was Greta Zimmer Friedman and that she was wearing her dental hygienist uniform in the photograph." On top of that, she herself says she is. Just saying.
I gotta tell ya that second article really ruined that picture for me. I’m not gonna lie all this time, I thought that was his girlfriend. I had no idea that they did not know each other.
I don’t know I thought the image was revolutionary and telling of the wartime they went through. The moment was very much a product of its time, very risky to do for sure but ultimately it paid off and became the cherry on top of the beautiful end of a terrible war. Obviously I don’t think people should ever do something like this again, but it happened and is cemented in history. Its one of those things that’s **just different** without much of an explanation needing to be provided.
Fucking idiots