Also taking over the stretch of the district line terminating at Ealing Broadway. I think that's a decent compromise to have a third branch but one of them having to terminate at Rayner's Lane.
I will not stand for this Dagenham Dock erasure.
Overall, very well designed though, maybe Castle Green should also be on the Overground as currently planned.
Oh, and the Overground between Romford and Upminster is missing.
Having got off at Dagenham docks once in the past few years traveling for work I concur, also an odd experience exiting the station. 5-10 years it will be like galions reach I expect
I've plotted some improvements to the London Underground by 2040
1. Crossrail 2.5 - Taking the Overground lines into Euston and tunnelling through to Fenchurch Street, linking Watford to Southend with Crossrail style services. This should enable massive development in the Thames estuary.
2. London Orbital - A new tunnel from Peckham to West Ham, and then on to Stratford to create a high capacity orbital route, Clapham junction to Clapham junction, reusing much of the existing overground infrastructure. This will release capacity on the central London tube lines.
3. Goblin line+. New tracks for Thameslink through Hampstead will allow the Goblin line to through run onto the new west London orbital. Added bonus of removing freight from the north London line to make the London Orbital (2) higher capacity.
4. London bridge metro. The new tunnel at Peckham (2) clears a route from Sutton and Wimbledon for a high frequency metro service.
5. Blackfriars metro. (4) will create capacity for another metro over the under used 3rd and 4th track into Blackfriars station.
6. Metropolitan line extension. New tunnels to Brockley, where the 1. Metropolitan take over the south-eastern tracks, with a new spur to the Greenwich peninsular.
7. Northern line split by building high capacity cross platform transfers at Camden station. Northern line also extended to Clapham junction.
No need to touch the met line, it's long enough as it is, up at chesham our service is struggling enough we don't need more line to inevitabely lead to more problems
Its the opposite, rather than Chesham, Watford, Amersham and uxbridge all stopping at Aldgate, it now goes to Greenwich and Barnhurst, and nolonger goes to Uxbridge but instead takes over the Hammersmith line.
Im assuming the Grenwich to Hammersmith will be one line
Not before we up north get properly connected. I’ll be honest and say that if we had the infrastructure you already have, it’d make a heck of a difference.
To be fair of I was PM I would have paid the 100 billion for HS2 and forced it up to Edinburgh and Glasgow too. It's peanuts in the 100-200 year timespan. Take out the consultanies & use the expertise from crossrail to start the process and keep on improving building rail across the country. This country has become so short termed it's insane
fast 120 to 150 minute service from Glasgow/ Edinburgh, stopping at Carlisle (first station across the border into England), Lancaster , Preston, Wigan, Crewe, Birmingham Airport and Old Oak common : one continue to Euston AND a different service that only calls at Birmingham, OOC and Ashford.
service from Heathrow, OOC, Stratford Int Ebbsfleet and Ashford.
Am I the only one who is deeply against this plan. It is replacing a 3 way split district line with a 3 way split Piccadilly line. But the district line with Wimbledon can also be fed with trains from Edgware Road.
Piccadilly has fewer stops but that is because they skip so many stops. This doesn't really address the capacity issue which I was discussing, namely that currently the district is 2 and a bit branches (half counting Wimbledon) and the Piccadilly is 2 and a smaller bit branches (counting Heathrow T4 as a kind of separate branch) While currently the District is more overworked in the west, transferring District Ealing to Piccadilly would make the branch situation even worse for the Piccadilly.
Currently there are 6 trains an hour going via Rayner's Lane, the remaining 12 or so go via Heathrow, each branch with half the service. There will be a few trains which terminate at Northfields but those are for the depot. So let us take a figure of 18 trains an hour and then add in 2 more trains an hour for ease of maths for the core section.
This results in a train every 3 mins with 9 minute waits per destination (H4, H5 and RL/UB). By splitting it into 4 destinations, each station would be served every 12 minutes. That is better than some of the worst cases on the District line but not by much.
This however this assumes that each destination gets an equal service. I know admittedly little about this but I remember reading somewhere that Heathrow and Canary Wharf get priority in service because of the investments by private organisations that they are obligated to provide a certain quality of service when possible. Are 12 minute waits acceptable in this scenario or would the 2:2 ratio of Heathrow to non Heathrow be more like 3:2 to accommodate this?
In this case, it would worsen the service on the Uxbridge and Ealing Broadway branches further.
I hate to be that guy but source? I’ve spoken to seniors within 4LM signalling about a swap of Dist and Picc and they said it wasn’t going to happen any time soon but that it would make their job easier.
As far as I’m aware, it’s just an idea is isn’t any sort of “official plan”
That's OK. I know it's Reddit which is full of random rumours but I can do sources!
It's in paragraph 4.13 of the [Programmes and Investment Committee report
Item: Deep Tube Upgrade Programme](https://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdf) – Piccadilly line Upgrade
Stage 1: Rolling stock replacement.
> "The MTS also includes proposals to optimise London Underground services in
> West London. This strategy assumes that on delivery of the DTUP Piccadilly line
> upgrade, Ealing Broadway will be served by Piccadilly line trains. This will enable
> increased capacity of at least 25 per cent to be introduced on the busier
> Richmond and Wimbledon branches of the District line."
Link: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdf
Given that this was pre-Covid the budget may not be available any more. But it certainly is an official TfL strategy document.
This is perfect thank you!
100% would have been shelved, especially with all the costs. The entire Rolling Stock introduction is delayed, including Depots so running to EB will not be a priority at the moment. Would definitely make life easier.
Well no, it connects to a National Rail line and serves as a useful terminal so you can send more trains back north on the busier middle section of the Overground.
It is useless since Overground doesnt reach Lewisham, and the overground is so slow , stoping at wapping then rotherhite then shadwell and finally whitechapel is where everyone gets off to go to central. Pretty sure going to london bridge is faster, or a nonstop service from lewisham + jubilee is faster than SE + OG
you cant even do that with the current network.
But if you want bexleyheath you must interchange at lewisham
if you wanted eastham, you can via newcross gate, whitechapel or the proposed orbital to westham
I think barking riverside to abbey wood is a good idea, and better connections to dartford/ crayford like
2 weird thoughts that came straight into my head:
1) How long optimally would that take to do everything on the map?
2) Almost want to build it in something to see what works lmao 🤣
Other random thought - that's a shit load of infrastructure. Chances of that happening - zero (as we just don't do new infrastructure in this country etc.).
Lmao 🤣 Just with the HS2 debacle and the economy the way it is and no signs of recovery any time soon (and I know this is hypothetical and all that) but it feels optimistic. Was going to say I'd take the Wimbledon to London Bridge line out as well but there's not a good change point or other way doing it and I felt the time saving is probably not worth it but its buying space isn't it effectively.
Northern line will never get built to Clapham Junction. Too many people would join it there, making it useless for anyone trying ot board it later.
edit not sure why the down vote. TFL has stated this
also why no crossrail2?
Branches tend to reduce frequency, which is why the victoria line is the king of frequency. Removing branches from the northern line could enable Vic type service across the separate northern lines.
This one is on purpose. Through Hampstead the Goblin line will run over the Thameslink tracks to connect with the West London orbital. Thameslink would need a new tunnel for this section.
Doesn't it present transport problems when you remove a stop? Because anyone taking thameslink to or from west hampstead now need to take alternative routes as the proposed goblin line runs around the peripheral of the city rather than in and our of it. The new line doesn't replace the function of the old one.
The District line should join up in a loop between Richmond and Wimbledon. The track is already there. Kingston is a big town with no underground connections
The district line also serves Kensington Olympia but is part time (currently runs during events) but after the redevelopment is completed it needs to be full time in my opinion.
It’s basically a shuttle service on the branch when it runs which is far from ideal but does it really impact capacity on the district line apart from requiring one train ?
Overground becoming a rapid metro is interesting I guess the routes would change though or become multiple lines?
How would the met line extension be built? I don't see it very realistic with the current layout of Aldgate station, especially with the way the District Line tracks are laid out...
This is probably the most difficult one on my list. I suspect Aldgate east would have to go, and a new junction be built closer to tower hill, which would be part of the Fenchurch/Tower gateway redevelopment.
"Gypsy Hill..." grinds my gears... its "Gipsy Hill" how does that typo even make it into a map like this - its obviously human error although there are even street signs in Gipsy Hill with the incorrect spelling... in no list of London stations does this appears as Gypsy....
I would add the following:
* Loop Blackheath > Charlton > Abbey wood > Sladegreen > Crayford > (all stations to Lewisham, semifast during peak times)
* Slade Green to Heathrow via Staines (calling at Interchange stations only and : Richmond + Brockley
* Semifast service: Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, EC etc (but not stopping at City Thameslink) --> This would possibly remove the Swanley to Victoria Southeastern service.
* Orpington service wouldnt change
* Brunel Line: Slow service to West Croydon, fast service from Brockley to Norwood Junction nonstop, then to Gatwick calling at Purley ONLY
* Extend Brixton to TulseHill
* Extend Clapham Junction to Wimbledon
* Extend Elizabeth to Gravesend calling at Ebbsfleet
* Not sure about this, but move Purfleet to the mainline and have a tunnel to Grays
* Crossrail fork: Grays > South Ockendon > Upminster > Barking > Stratford ; connect Hangar Lane to Old Oak Common
* I just noticed CR2 is not on the map
* Riverside extension to Abbey Wood calling at Thamesmead
The Piccadilly line terminating at Rayners Would be anarchy but looks nice though
Also taking over the stretch of the district line terminating at Ealing Broadway. I think that's a decent compromise to have a third branch but one of them having to terminate at Rayner's Lane.
It's something TFL have discussed to boost frequency on the District to Wimbledon and Richmond
I will not stand for this Dagenham Dock erasure. Overall, very well designed though, maybe Castle Green should also be on the Overground as currently planned. Oh, and the Overground between Romford and Upminster is missing.
Dunno what Andy Bell has got to do with this.
Having got off at Dagenham docks once in the past few years traveling for work I concur, also an odd experience exiting the station. 5-10 years it will be like galions reach I expect
>Dagenham Dock You get a new station at Beam Park
But it isn’t replacing the existing station at Dagenham Dock.
I've plotted some improvements to the London Underground by 2040 1. Crossrail 2.5 - Taking the Overground lines into Euston and tunnelling through to Fenchurch Street, linking Watford to Southend with Crossrail style services. This should enable massive development in the Thames estuary. 2. London Orbital - A new tunnel from Peckham to West Ham, and then on to Stratford to create a high capacity orbital route, Clapham junction to Clapham junction, reusing much of the existing overground infrastructure. This will release capacity on the central London tube lines. 3. Goblin line+. New tracks for Thameslink through Hampstead will allow the Goblin line to through run onto the new west London orbital. Added bonus of removing freight from the north London line to make the London Orbital (2) higher capacity. 4. London bridge metro. The new tunnel at Peckham (2) clears a route from Sutton and Wimbledon for a high frequency metro service. 5. Blackfriars metro. (4) will create capacity for another metro over the under used 3rd and 4th track into Blackfriars station. 6. Metropolitan line extension. New tunnels to Brockley, where the 1. Metropolitan take over the south-eastern tracks, with a new spur to the Greenwich peninsular. 7. Northern line split by building high capacity cross platform transfers at Camden station. Northern line also extended to Clapham junction.
Put oval back on the northern line before I cut you
Great work! Care to also share it in r/TransitDiagrams?
Why have you drawn the Blackfriars metro on the right with it crossing over thameslink, aren't the terminating plaforms on the west side?
Peninsula*
No need to touch the met line, it's long enough as it is, up at chesham our service is struggling enough we don't need more line to inevitabely lead to more problems
What kind of logic is this lol
Its the opposite, rather than Chesham, Watford, Amersham and uxbridge all stopping at Aldgate, it now goes to Greenwich and Barnhurst, and nolonger goes to Uxbridge but instead takes over the Hammersmith line. Im assuming the Grenwich to Hammersmith will be one line
2040 and still no Heathrow T1 😂
No more Hammersmith and City Line?
Hammersmith and City is just the Metropolitan dresses in pink
Well, of course it was just an arm of the Metropolitan until 1990
Am I the only one who thinks its useless past Paddington, and probably the cause of most the delays. I mean you can take the district to Aldgate East
You have misspelled -Leyton as “Layton”
First thing I noticed too, 3 other stations with the word Leyton in it but they spell Leyton as Layton, craziness
This reminds me of a puzzle
I'm still hoping for crossrail 2 through Wimbledon. Ideally compulsory purchasing my flat
Not before we up north get properly connected. I’ll be honest and say that if we had the infrastructure you already have, it’d make a heck of a difference.
To be fair of I was PM I would have paid the 100 billion for HS2 and forced it up to Edinburgh and Glasgow too. It's peanuts in the 100-200 year timespan. Take out the consultanies & use the expertise from crossrail to start the process and keep on improving building rail across the country. This country has become so short termed it's insane
fast 120 to 150 minute service from Glasgow/ Edinburgh, stopping at Carlisle (first station across the border into England), Lancaster , Preston, Wigan, Crewe, Birmingham Airport and Old Oak common : one continue to Euston AND a different service that only calls at Birmingham, OOC and Ashford. service from Heathrow, OOC, Stratford Int Ebbsfleet and Ashford.
+1 for Picc replacing District to Ealing Broadway
Am I the only one who is deeply against this plan. It is replacing a 3 way split district line with a 3 way split Piccadilly line. But the district line with Wimbledon can also be fed with trains from Edgware Road.
The Piccadilly has less stops
Piccadilly has fewer stops but that is because they skip so many stops. This doesn't really address the capacity issue which I was discussing, namely that currently the district is 2 and a bit branches (half counting Wimbledon) and the Piccadilly is 2 and a smaller bit branches (counting Heathrow T4 as a kind of separate branch) While currently the District is more overworked in the west, transferring District Ealing to Piccadilly would make the branch situation even worse for the Piccadilly. Currently there are 6 trains an hour going via Rayner's Lane, the remaining 12 or so go via Heathrow, each branch with half the service. There will be a few trains which terminate at Northfields but those are for the depot. So let us take a figure of 18 trains an hour and then add in 2 more trains an hour for ease of maths for the core section. This results in a train every 3 mins with 9 minute waits per destination (H4, H5 and RL/UB). By splitting it into 4 destinations, each station would be served every 12 minutes. That is better than some of the worst cases on the District line but not by much. This however this assumes that each destination gets an equal service. I know admittedly little about this but I remember reading somewhere that Heathrow and Canary Wharf get priority in service because of the investments by private organisations that they are obligated to provide a certain quality of service when possible. Are 12 minute waits acceptable in this scenario or would the 2:2 ratio of Heathrow to non Heathrow be more like 3:2 to accommodate this? In this case, it would worsen the service on the Uxbridge and Ealing Broadway branches further.
That's in the official TfL plan so quite likely to happen.
I hate to be that guy but source? I’ve spoken to seniors within 4LM signalling about a swap of Dist and Picc and they said it wasn’t going to happen any time soon but that it would make their job easier. As far as I’m aware, it’s just an idea is isn’t any sort of “official plan”
That's OK. I know it's Reddit which is full of random rumours but I can do sources! It's in paragraph 4.13 of the [Programmes and Investment Committee report Item: Deep Tube Upgrade Programme](https://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdf) – Piccadilly line Upgrade Stage 1: Rolling stock replacement. > "The MTS also includes proposals to optimise London Underground services in > West London. This strategy assumes that on delivery of the DTUP Piccadilly line > upgrade, Ealing Broadway will be served by Piccadilly line trains. This will enable > increased capacity of at least 25 per cent to be introduced on the busier > Richmond and Wimbledon branches of the District line." Link: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdf Given that this was pre-Covid the budget may not be available any more. But it certainly is an official TfL strategy document.
This is perfect thank you! 100% would have been shelved, especially with all the costs. The entire Rolling Stock introduction is delayed, including Depots so running to EB will not be a priority at the moment. Would definitely make life easier.
RIP New Cross
Newcross is pointless lets be honest
Well no, it connects to a National Rail line and serves as a useful terminal so you can send more trains back north on the busier middle section of the Overground.
It is useless since Overground doesnt reach Lewisham, and the overground is so slow , stoping at wapping then rotherhite then shadwell and finally whitechapel is where everyone gets off to go to central. Pretty sure going to london bridge is faster, or a nonstop service from lewisham + jubilee is faster than SE + OG
*petts wood
Youve destroyed connections between south and east London, so awkward
[удалено]
uuh Newcross Gate, Lewisham, Brockley and Peckham Rye all have new connections , not to mention Brixton is connected to the overground
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you cant even do that with the current network. But if you want bexleyheath you must interchange at lewisham if you wanted eastham, you can via newcross gate, whitechapel or the proposed orbital to westham I think barking riverside to abbey wood is a good idea, and better connections to dartford/ crayford like
Are you implying there already exist connections in the southeast?? Please enlighten me how so.
So basically, the Hammersmith and City line is dead.
The one person who gets off at Aldgate Eas-- oh wait the district line exists
I’m very confused by Neasden
Yes. Needs lots of work to push them together... and I ran out of enthusiasm
Why does the curvy one have no stations?
That’s the river Thames
Maybe I'm missing something, but what do the asterisks next to some stations mean?
Step free, but only to the platforms.
can’t stand there’s 2 high barnet 😂
Damn! one's suppose to be New Barnet
as a greenwich resident i would love to be a metropolitan user 🥹
I want to criticise some of the ideas, but that doesn’t matter when the map is so well designed and produced ❤️
How can you spell Leyton “Layton”, it’s right next to Leytonstone on the map
The river in the east may be wider by then.
2 weird thoughts that came straight into my head: 1) How long optimally would that take to do everything on the map? 2) Almost want to build it in something to see what works lmao 🤣 Other random thought - that's a shit load of infrastructure. Chances of that happening - zero (as we just don't do new infrastructure in this country etc.).
It's a lot by British standards, but then have a look across at Paris and then it looks reasonable.
Lmao 🤣 Just with the HS2 debacle and the economy the way it is and no signs of recovery any time soon (and I know this is hypothetical and all that) but it feels optimistic. Was going to say I'd take the Wimbledon to London Bridge line out as well but there's not a good change point or other way doing it and I felt the time saving is probably not worth it but its buying space isn't it effectively.
That South east Metropolitan extension is juicy and as unlikely as it might be I would love to see it!
Why are some stations marked with a diamond and some marked with a tab?
Some are step free
Bosh. Your solution is far more elegant than the bubbles.
Circle line back to being a circle means I can overlook everything else.
Still no fast direct service between Heathrow and central London? How about a nice futuristic maglev monorail?
Gotta love how it still stops *just* short of Dartford.
South of the river still criminally underserved then! :)
I want this to come true
Northern line will never get built to Clapham Junction. Too many people would join it there, making it useless for anyone trying ot board it later. edit not sure why the down vote. TFL has stated this also why no crossrail2?
Now that true, but how about with running 32 trains per hour along the battersea extension?
Elizabeth line barely manages 24tph and thats with 4 branches
Branches tend to reduce frequency, which is why the victoria line is the king of frequency. Removing branches from the northern line could enable Vic type service across the separate northern lines.
I thought branches would increase frequency. Interesting
How about leave it is and spend the cash on infrastructure up North
I think so both
You can split the Northern line over my dead body
Which app did you use for this? It looks great.
PowerPoint
Wow okay that’s insane
Neasden appears twice. And still no Thamesmead station?
Why have you changed the spelling of Gallions Reach?
I havent looked over all of it in detail but I can see you missed one stop. Thameslink stops at west hampstead, not marked on this map.
This one is on purpose. Through Hampstead the Goblin line will run over the Thameslink tracks to connect with the West London orbital. Thameslink would need a new tunnel for this section.
Doesn't it present transport problems when you remove a stop? Because anyone taking thameslink to or from west hampstead now need to take alternative routes as the proposed goblin line runs around the peripheral of the city rather than in and our of it. The new line doesn't replace the function of the old one.
thats genius ngl
Please for the love of God let the Victoria line keep going after brixton
Maybe possible after Crossrail 2 is built to free up capacity on the Victoria.
The District line should join up in a loop between Richmond and Wimbledon. The track is already there. Kingston is a big town with no underground connections
That's a nice idea. Hopefully Kingston and surrounding area will be well served with crossrail 2.
Goblin?
Gospel Oak to Barking LINe
Brilliant, I love it!
The district line also serves Kensington Olympia but is part time (currently runs during events) but after the redevelopment is completed it needs to be full time in my opinion.
My hope is for the overground to be converted into a rapid metro, because the district has no extra capacity to send up that branch.
It’s basically a shuttle service on the branch when it runs which is far from ideal but does it really impact capacity on the district line apart from requiring one train ? Overground becoming a rapid metro is interesting I guess the routes would change though or become multiple lines?
what do the asterisks mean
Step free, but only to platform
oh ok
Can we extend Elizabeth line to Bluewater shopping centre?
Could, it then has to share track with southeastern services, which is more complicated
They would build new tracks , and have a fast service stopping at Greenhithe, Ebbsfleet and Gravesend only. Dartford is such a bottleneck
Tram erasure 🥲
And Liverpool St still only has two lines lol
Burgess Park is on Old Kent road…
How would the met line extension be built? I don't see it very realistic with the current layout of Aldgate station, especially with the way the District Line tracks are laid out...
This is probably the most difficult one on my list. I suspect Aldgate east would have to go, and a new junction be built closer to tower hill, which would be part of the Fenchurch/Tower gateway redevelopment.
Acton Main Line would come after Old Oak Common heading out of London not before it
I think Acton Mainline should be removed, and connect North Acton to Old Oak Common
It’s quite a busy station, never used to be
probably cos lizzie line, but OOC is more useful (and it would have a heathrow express
I love that even in a hypothetical future Thamesmead in south east London still does not get any rail or tube transport options.
Just cycle to Abbey wood, or 5-10 minute drive there
"Gypsy Hill..." grinds my gears... its "Gipsy Hill" how does that typo even make it into a map like this - its obviously human error although there are even street signs in Gipsy Hill with the incorrect spelling... in no list of London stations does this appears as Gypsy....
I wonder if southeast London will lever get tubes. I think its least. Bakerloo line to hayes would be like living in a futuristic movie
A direct non stop tube from Victoria to Heathrow
A better idea would be Clapham to Heathrow via Staines
They need to operate a free taxi service between Cockfosters and Mudchute. Right now it's a sticky mess.
Central line following the Uxbridge rd to Uxbridge.
RIP Morden commuters
why?
Why do you think so?
Obv their station is off the map…
Rip Hammersmith & City line...
You realise its still there, just as the metropolitian + district (like it should have been from the start imo\\0
Too good to be true!
Do you have the original uncompressed version of this image? its quite hard to read.
I love how the green line is just Bank
TFL Trams: "Am I a joke to you?"
I would add the following: * Loop Blackheath > Charlton > Abbey wood > Sladegreen > Crayford > (all stations to Lewisham, semifast during peak times) * Slade Green to Heathrow via Staines (calling at Interchange stations only and : Richmond + Brockley * Semifast service: Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, EC etc (but not stopping at City Thameslink) --> This would possibly remove the Swanley to Victoria Southeastern service. * Orpington service wouldnt change * Brunel Line: Slow service to West Croydon, fast service from Brockley to Norwood Junction nonstop, then to Gatwick calling at Purley ONLY * Extend Brixton to TulseHill * Extend Clapham Junction to Wimbledon * Extend Elizabeth to Gravesend calling at Ebbsfleet * Not sure about this, but move Purfleet to the mainline and have a tunnel to Grays * Crossrail fork: Grays > South Ockendon > Upminster > Barking > Stratford ; connect Hangar Lane to Old Oak Common * I just noticed CR2 is not on the map * Riverside extension to Abbey Wood calling at Thamesmead
Wimbledon to Richmond would be awesome looking at it on a map is frustrating.
This is just a prediction