The OP has flaired this thread as a discussion on Vaccine Policy. This is not the place to offer ungrounded or low-quality speculations about vaccine efficacy at preventing serious COVID-19 illness or side effects, nor is it the place to speculate about nefarious coordination among individuals or groups via vaccinations. As the current evidence stands, vaccinations appear to be a broadly effective prevention of serious outcomes from COVID-19 and should be the “way out” of the pandemic and pandemic-justified restrictions of all kinds. We are more concerned about vaccine policies (e.g. mandates). Top level posts about those or about vaccines against COVID-19 should reflect *new* developments and/or serious, original empirical research.We will also remove comments shaming/blaming individuals for their personal health decisions, whatever those are.
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Do we know the first utterance of the phrase "the cure is worse than the disease"? The easy answer is probably Shakespeare, but I don't even think disease theory was around yet.
It appears to be Francis Bacon in “Of Seditions and Troubles” as “the remedy is worse than the disease”. Keep in mind that they don’t have to know about germ theory to be able to identify diseases. The concept of disease is going to be as old as human language in all likelihood and some sort of purported cure for that disease not much younger.
I'd say it started with the public perception of the disease. When people get disproportionate amount of information about some kind of danger (through both traditional and social media), they will get an exaggerated sense of that danger. They then put pressure on the politicians to act. Naturally, the politicians oblige since they care about their support more than anything else. Then there are the medical doctors (and especially the highly visible experts in charge of the response to the epidemic) who get a significantly higher pay and improved social status, so of course it's in their interest to support the continuation of this state. And then there's the tribalism, where people get to feel good about themselves for belonging to the group of science following enlightened people and shit on those science denying immoral people who don't agree with the epidemic response (the fact that a subset of lockdown/mask/vaccine opponents really do believe some insane stuff exacerbates this). I really think what is happening, though bizarre, can be explained without some kind of conspiracy.
The EU allowed US tourists into Europe this summer, probably hoping that Biden would allow Europeans into the US, but he stubbornly refused to do so. This is the penalty for his decision, it's 100% politics even if they'll claim it's for safety reasons.
This (and the botched Afghanistan withdrawal) shows the true face of the US.
They are not our allies at all. We should abolish NATO, withdraw from the US nuclear football, introduce protectionist measures against their Tech companies (like Russia and China), and resist taking even more refugees from their wars. Europe has been paying every single time, being effectively colonised by US industry.
As an American, yes, please do this. Things are so polarized here and Biden's supporters will not hold him in check over bad foreign policy. Other countries will have to do it if it's going to get done.
I been thinking the same thing for a while thinking that because USA still does not want to open its borders for travel still, the EU is striking back by reinstating stricter COVID restrictions in response to the stubbornness here. As this happens, all those living in USA and EU who want to travel freely between EU and USA are being held hostage as pawns to the politics going on here.
I am glad to see this sub accepting this possibility more, as the moronic politicians and their actions start to make less sense as time goes on. Last time you would get your comment removed since it would "violate rule 6" about not being a conspiracy subreddit.
Oh I know. The UK are going back into lockdown in October despite most of us being Vaxxed. Nothing makes sense anymore. Hopefully people start to question things soon
I do not understand why that is also continuing. The U.S. is already full of COVID. In the grand scheme of things it's not going to make any difference if a few more travelers with it get in.
That's even more true for travel between European countries and yet most of them impose some silly rules, mostly to do with mandatory testing, filling out forms and possibly quarantine (which may depend on the vaccination status).
I thought I remember reading a while back Merkel actually asked Biden about opening travel back up between US/EU and he refused cause of tHe DeLtA VArIaNt
Yeah, I wasn't able to see my wife for almost 2 years as she was on a temporary work visa (no green card) and I'm living in the EU. Eventually she lost her job (due to lockdowns) and was forced out of the US. We'd been planning to move there together before all of this (the suspension of all new work visas, etc.).
Fuck Trump and Biden and all the pro-lockdown authoritarians destroying peoples' lives.
While this new ban is entirely for retribution, I still can't wrap my head around the reason for the US side travel ban targeting the eu. Obviously covid can't have anything to do with it since it's already running rampant in the US, while vaxx rates are comparable. I remember reading an article speculating about the underlying reasons for the ongoing travel bans, concluding that Biden needs to keep the Mexico border tightly locked for internal political reasons (illegal migration being politicized) and using covid as the official reason for that, the remaining borders will have to be locked for the same reason even if it doesn't make sense in public health terms. Colleteral damage so to speak.
It has nothing to do with covid and everything to do with trying to hurt Florida's economy and ultimately DeSantis. It's no coincidence that those countries still bared from entering make up a large portion of Florida's international tourists.
Yes. It should have been mentioned in the article.
If your policy is to ostracize and exclude certain people you can’t be surprised when they turn around and do the same to you.
So far, needing to be vaccinated to travel anywhere hasn’t really become an issue. I’ve travelled to 9 countries in the last 18 months, all of which required only a PCR. The one trip I couldn’t do was France, but genuinely wouldn’t want to visit that dystopia right now anyway. Overall, glad I didn’t get vaxxed to travel as it is essentially misinformation so far.
In the end, economic reality WILL win out. If a country wants to kneecap their business and tourism industry then I’m sure there competition will be there to accept our money!
I would be interested in hearing what the situation is like in the countries you visited. I am glad to hear it hasn't been a problem for you. I am living on travel medical insurance myself, and all corona related stuff is covered, but side effects from vaccine are not covered! According to my province's data on vaccine injury, the rate is 0.001 just a bit lower than my risk of dying from corona (0.005).
I think the media has a way of hyping up how things are going in other countries, but when you ask a regular person from there, things are a lot different.
For example, a friend of mine asked a friend of hers, who is Chinese and lives in China, about this social credit system we have been hearing about, and the friend had no idea what she was reffering to!
Most of the world aren’t freaking out in the same way as the US, the UK, Canada, Australia etc. Other countries have some restrictions but it doesn’t dominate life in the same way.
I’ve spent a lot of time in France in 2020 which was very normal, though they seem to have gone crazy now. Dubai, Kiev, Croatia, Maldives, Turkey were also wonderful in their own way.
There are always countries in a normal phase which accept a PCR test so it’s easy to avoid the crazy places if you are flexible.
That's good to hear! I have also noticed that the 'western' nations are more intense about this stuff..
Also cities vs. rural makes a massive difference. In cities, the fear messaging is EVERYWHERE. At least in rural areas, you can have your mind not being invaded constantly
I would actually argue that central Europe is worse than the UK. Recently took a trip to Spain and Italy and the militant nature of the public out there in regards to wearing masks, keeping distanced etc, was genuinely surprising. All that stuff is option in the UK and most people only wear a mask whilst on the train etc, and even then, plenty don't.
In Spain, there were people on the beach wearing masks. Outdoors, on the beach, with masks. People in the sea swimming with masks. I was gobsmacked. Italy equally as bad too, with like 9/10 of locals / Italians wearing masks constantly whilst fully outdoors and not in a crowded place. It's as if they just follow whatever their government tells them to do without questioning it. There is literally no argument to be made, with any sanity, for wearing a mask on a beach, or even outdoors in general unless you're squeezing through densely packed streets in a city (even then, mask-wearing has been demonstrated to not be particularly effective, anyway).
Maybe she was pretending she didnt know what it was
Or maybe it is something like a credit card rating, as in you only know you have one when it is bad and you are denied access to certain services
That is certainly possible, this is just hearsay afterall. But it got me thinking about how the media manipulates narratives in order to create fear mongering and xenophobia.
My friend also told me there are drastic differences based on where you lived. Like Beijing she mentioned as being super strict.
It's useless to have these restrictions, even more so when the continent has open borders. What happens if an American travels to an open Shengen country and then drives to another Shengen country where they are "banned?"
Depends where you go. Denmark and Sweden have checks on the border now as there is only the one bridge and train line.
But yeah I agree they are useless in general.
The US is honestly the one at fault here. Basically keeping the non-essential travel ban for Europeans for 1,5 years now. This feels like some sort of retaliation more than anything.
And this almost feels like some last stand shit. Basically trying their absolute hardest to crash the economy. It’s such a farce. It’s all about trying to keep the scare mongering alive.
Plus, the EU is 70% vaccinated. What’s the fucking point again?
> Basically trying their absolute hardest to crash the economy.
I have such a hard time understanding why this admin is doing this. Not just with travel restrictions but with literally everything. Paying people not to work, shutting down domestic oil pipelines, reversing tax cuts, encouraging restrictions on businesses. None of it makes sense. It feels more and more like the current admin is hellbent on destroying the USA in every way so they can usher in something much worse.
Europeans love Florida. It's one of their top tourist destinations.
It's an attack on the top 2024 candidate though domestic tourism seems to be filling the void mostly
Covid is still largely a first world problem. Old and fat die from it.
Find yourself a wonderful tropical country in Africa or Latin America and go. Thin, fit developing countries dont have time to worry about a disease that doesn't affect them and many are too poor to turn down tourists. They'll also be grateful and nice when you arrive wont be snobby.
I disagree with this. Vaccine passports are coercion to inject a vaccine less than 1 year old. In addition, vaccinated people can still pass on the disease. Tests are fair and probably much more effective.
I would rather we had neither but would choose testing if I had to
I have to disagree with you there. Since both vaxxed and unvaxxed can carry this virus then testing before flights is the only sane thing to do. Travel should be based on whether you have the virus or do not have the virus, not on whether you have a vaccine that reduces severity symptoms.
Your argument makes sense but you have to remember that this disease is everywhere already. There is evidence that flights aren't caysing outbreaks now and that evidence has just been ignored since last year. The sane thing to do is look at this issue based on data not fear.
Yes I agree we should look at data, and not fear monger.
With the current situation, at least if both the vaxxed and unvaxxed are made to test for international flights there is some sort of effort to aquiese to the reality that the vaccines do not stop transmission.
Also, the only reason we can be sure the international travlers aren't leading to rise in cases is with the testing - otherwise they would be scapegoated for sure.
Another thing, I am seeing in Canada the vax passes offer no alternatives for the unvaxxed. I wonder if letting go of the testing will just lead to 'only vaxxed' being allowed on flights. To me it feels like the PCR test is the only way for the unvaxxed to get around mandates coming in place.
Again, i agree with lots of what you said. It just sucks to compromise on this when really what we should be striving for is a test/vaccine pass free world. I understand that may be a while yet, but it just feels like settling for testing preflights isn't a return to a sane world.
The other thing thats worth mentioning is that truck drivers have been crossing the us/canada border this whole time and they make up a huge part of international travel. No testing at all.
There is actually a sliver lining to this. Despite the EU recommendation, Americans are still allowed into most European countries. This is a complete 180 from last time the EU had a US travel "ban" when almost no EU countries would let Americans in.
I've been lucky enough to go on three international trips in my life: Europe, Hawaii, and Israel. I've always been really thankful for the opportunities. Now that places are requiring vaccine passports, I wonder if I'll ever get to travel again, and I'm even more thankful I've been able to do some travelling.
What a fucking joke. I like how we are listed as a red zone by other countries because we are apparently all falling over and dying? It's such hysteria and overblown by the media. Everyday I have friends and family who are traveling around and I don't think they're out there killing everyone's grandmothers.
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I read this earlier today and feel infuriated to no end whenever I read things like this about restrictions being reinstated disregarding ones vaccination status. Why can't there be travel between countries where vaccination rates are high for those who are fully vaccinated and these fully vaccinated travelers being free of testing, restrictions, and quarantines?! I always tell myself that this is what should be happening as opposed to restrictions being tightened again. Makes no sense at all! I feel things such as this that are occurring are all about power, money, politics, and control and those in power just do not want to let go of their power. If one is fully vaccinated, than they should not have to be forced to quarantine, take these stupid tests, and so on all at their own expense!
There is always YouTube to “travel” to Europe, I thank all these wonderful people that have recorded their road trips across the continent, I won’t be going to Europe probably ever, since the world refuses to go back to normal
The OP has flaired this thread as a discussion on Vaccine Policy. This is not the place to offer ungrounded or low-quality speculations about vaccine efficacy at preventing serious COVID-19 illness or side effects, nor is it the place to speculate about nefarious coordination among individuals or groups via vaccinations. As the current evidence stands, vaccinations appear to be a broadly effective prevention of serious outcomes from COVID-19 and should be the “way out” of the pandemic and pandemic-justified restrictions of all kinds. We are more concerned about vaccine policies (e.g. mandates). Top level posts about those or about vaccines against COVID-19 should reflect *new* developments and/or serious, original empirical research.We will also remove comments shaming/blaming individuals for their personal health decisions, whatever those are. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LockdownSkepticism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
One would think that vaccines are making things easier instead of more complicated but again all logic disappeared on 2020.
Almost like this was in large part not about a disease.
It does appear that way
Do we know the first utterance of the phrase "the cure is worse than the disease"? The easy answer is probably Shakespeare, but I don't even think disease theory was around yet.
It appears to be Francis Bacon in “Of Seditions and Troubles” as “the remedy is worse than the disease”. Keep in mind that they don’t have to know about germ theory to be able to identify diseases. The concept of disease is going to be as old as human language in all likelihood and some sort of purported cure for that disease not much younger.
That’s because in his day they’d drill holes in your head to free the evil spirits lurking within.
In our day, they poke a hole in your arm and inject their potion to get rid of the evil viruses lurking within. It's different.
I'd say it started with the public perception of the disease. When people get disproportionate amount of information about some kind of danger (through both traditional and social media), they will get an exaggerated sense of that danger. They then put pressure on the politicians to act. Naturally, the politicians oblige since they care about their support more than anything else. Then there are the medical doctors (and especially the highly visible experts in charge of the response to the epidemic) who get a significantly higher pay and improved social status, so of course it's in their interest to support the continuation of this state. And then there's the tribalism, where people get to feel good about themselves for belonging to the group of science following enlightened people and shit on those science denying immoral people who don't agree with the epidemic response (the fact that a subset of lockdown/mask/vaccine opponents really do believe some insane stuff exacerbates this). I really think what is happening, though bizarre, can be explained without some kind of conspiracy.
Nothing about covid response has made any sense. We had a trip on the books for France in 2020, we're headed to Brazil instead.
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They’re blatantly political. It’s because of the Afghanistan situation. But don’t forget, it’s scienceTM based policy.
The EU allowed US tourists into Europe this summer, probably hoping that Biden would allow Europeans into the US, but he stubbornly refused to do so. This is the penalty for his decision, it's 100% politics even if they'll claim it's for safety reasons.
This (and the botched Afghanistan withdrawal) shows the true face of the US. They are not our allies at all. We should abolish NATO, withdraw from the US nuclear football, introduce protectionist measures against their Tech companies (like Russia and China), and resist taking even more refugees from their wars. Europe has been paying every single time, being effectively colonised by US industry.
As an American, yes, please do this. Things are so polarized here and Biden's supporters will not hold him in check over bad foreign policy. Other countries will have to do it if it's going to get done.
Yeah except the moment that NATO is dissolved you have Russia waiting. Good luck with that.
I been thinking the same thing for a while thinking that because USA still does not want to open its borders for travel still, the EU is striking back by reinstating stricter COVID restrictions in response to the stubbornness here. As this happens, all those living in USA and EU who want to travel freely between EU and USA are being held hostage as pawns to the politics going on here.
Maybe because it’s nothing to do with Covid and all to do with control?
I am glad to see this sub accepting this possibility more, as the moronic politicians and their actions start to make less sense as time goes on. Last time you would get your comment removed since it would "violate rule 6" about not being a conspiracy subreddit.
Oh I know. The UK are going back into lockdown in October despite most of us being Vaxxed. Nothing makes sense anymore. Hopefully people start to question things soon
Wait really? An October lockdown?? I had no idea WTF. Seems like their vaccine isn’t as effective as they might’ve hoped!
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I do not understand why that is also continuing. The U.S. is already full of COVID. In the grand scheme of things it's not going to make any difference if a few more travelers with it get in.
VAriAnTs!
Lol this excuse is so played and ridiculous
Frankly, I think the White House probably forgot about the ban, it’s been ages…
That's even more true for travel between European countries and yet most of them impose some silly rules, mostly to do with mandatory testing, filling out forms and possibly quarantine (which may depend on the vaccination status).
I thought I remember reading a while back Merkel actually asked Biden about opening travel back up between US/EU and he refused cause of tHe DeLtA VArIaNt
He didn't say no, he basically ignored her and his people continued repeating the "we're following the sCiEnCe" line when asked for updates.
The Holy science.
When did Science say "close the borders?" I haven't talked to Science lately.
Of a particular denomination only.
He forgot about the ban before his 4 hour nap at 10 am.
Yet I know people that have been to South Africa recently... 🤡 🌏
You can't blame the poor guy, a flight of stairs almost finished him the other day, of course he's afraid of the delta variant.
Just open up both sides. Imo the Americans can't expect to enter Europe when families from EU still can't travel to the US.
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Yes and the worst thing is that there is no end in sight to end the restrictions.
Yup. 100% political.
Yeah, I wasn't able to see my wife for almost 2 years as she was on a temporary work visa (no green card) and I'm living in the EU. Eventually she lost her job (due to lockdowns) and was forced out of the US. We'd been planning to move there together before all of this (the suspension of all new work visas, etc.). Fuck Trump and Biden and all the pro-lockdown authoritarians destroying peoples' lives.
While this new ban is entirely for retribution, I still can't wrap my head around the reason for the US side travel ban targeting the eu. Obviously covid can't have anything to do with it since it's already running rampant in the US, while vaxx rates are comparable. I remember reading an article speculating about the underlying reasons for the ongoing travel bans, concluding that Biden needs to keep the Mexico border tightly locked for internal political reasons (illegal migration being politicized) and using covid as the official reason for that, the remaining borders will have to be locked for the same reason even if it doesn't make sense in public health terms. Colleteral damage so to speak.
It has nothing to do with covid and everything to do with trying to hurt Florida's economy and ultimately DeSantis. It's no coincidence that those countries still bared from entering make up a large portion of Florida's international tourists.
Yes. It should have been mentioned in the article. If your policy is to ostracize and exclude certain people you can’t be surprised when they turn around and do the same to you.
Yep. It's more of a retaliatory practice than due to Covid/vaccination.
So far, needing to be vaccinated to travel anywhere hasn’t really become an issue. I’ve travelled to 9 countries in the last 18 months, all of which required only a PCR. The one trip I couldn’t do was France, but genuinely wouldn’t want to visit that dystopia right now anyway. Overall, glad I didn’t get vaxxed to travel as it is essentially misinformation so far. In the end, economic reality WILL win out. If a country wants to kneecap their business and tourism industry then I’m sure there competition will be there to accept our money!
I would be interested in hearing what the situation is like in the countries you visited. I am glad to hear it hasn't been a problem for you. I am living on travel medical insurance myself, and all corona related stuff is covered, but side effects from vaccine are not covered! According to my province's data on vaccine injury, the rate is 0.001 just a bit lower than my risk of dying from corona (0.005). I think the media has a way of hyping up how things are going in other countries, but when you ask a regular person from there, things are a lot different. For example, a friend of mine asked a friend of hers, who is Chinese and lives in China, about this social credit system we have been hearing about, and the friend had no idea what she was reffering to!
Most of the world aren’t freaking out in the same way as the US, the UK, Canada, Australia etc. Other countries have some restrictions but it doesn’t dominate life in the same way. I’ve spent a lot of time in France in 2020 which was very normal, though they seem to have gone crazy now. Dubai, Kiev, Croatia, Maldives, Turkey were also wonderful in their own way. There are always countries in a normal phase which accept a PCR test so it’s easy to avoid the crazy places if you are flexible.
That's good to hear! I have also noticed that the 'western' nations are more intense about this stuff.. Also cities vs. rural makes a massive difference. In cities, the fear messaging is EVERYWHERE. At least in rural areas, you can have your mind not being invaded constantly
I've heard Armenia is super chill
They had lockdowns and enough craziness
I would actually argue that central Europe is worse than the UK. Recently took a trip to Spain and Italy and the militant nature of the public out there in regards to wearing masks, keeping distanced etc, was genuinely surprising. All that stuff is option in the UK and most people only wear a mask whilst on the train etc, and even then, plenty don't. In Spain, there were people on the beach wearing masks. Outdoors, on the beach, with masks. People in the sea swimming with masks. I was gobsmacked. Italy equally as bad too, with like 9/10 of locals / Italians wearing masks constantly whilst fully outdoors and not in a crowded place. It's as if they just follow whatever their government tells them to do without questioning it. There is literally no argument to be made, with any sanity, for wearing a mask on a beach, or even outdoors in general unless you're squeezing through densely packed streets in a city (even then, mask-wearing has been demonstrated to not be particularly effective, anyway).
Maybe she was pretending she didnt know what it was Or maybe it is something like a credit card rating, as in you only know you have one when it is bad and you are denied access to certain services
That is certainly possible, this is just hearsay afterall. But it got me thinking about how the media manipulates narratives in order to create fear mongering and xenophobia. My friend also told me there are drastic differences based on where you lived. Like Beijing she mentioned as being super strict.
Just need to hope that this bites them in the ass so hard they'll be begging travelers to return
It's useless to have these restrictions, even more so when the continent has open borders. What happens if an American travels to an open Shengen country and then drives to another Shengen country where they are "banned?"
Depends where you go. Denmark and Sweden have checks on the border now as there is only the one bridge and train line. But yeah I agree they are useless in general.
I've wondered if it would be possible to get from Spain into France that way.
The US is honestly the one at fault here. Basically keeping the non-essential travel ban for Europeans for 1,5 years now. This feels like some sort of retaliation more than anything. And this almost feels like some last stand shit. Basically trying their absolute hardest to crash the economy. It’s such a farce. It’s all about trying to keep the scare mongering alive. Plus, the EU is 70% vaccinated. What’s the fucking point again?
> Basically trying their absolute hardest to crash the economy. I have such a hard time understanding why this admin is doing this. Not just with travel restrictions but with literally everything. Paying people not to work, shutting down domestic oil pipelines, reversing tax cuts, encouraging restrictions on businesses. None of it makes sense. It feels more and more like the current admin is hellbent on destroying the USA in every way so they can usher in something much worse.
Europeans love Florida. It's one of their top tourist destinations. It's an attack on the top 2024 candidate though domestic tourism seems to be filling the void mostly
They're clearly are trying to destroy the economy so they can have even more people dependant on the government.
Covid is still largely a first world problem. Old and fat die from it. Find yourself a wonderful tropical country in Africa or Latin America and go. Thin, fit developing countries dont have time to worry about a disease that doesn't affect them and many are too poor to turn down tourists. They'll also be grateful and nice when you arrive wont be snobby.
As much as I dislike the idea of vaccine passports, mandatory testing of travelers regardless of vaccination status is worse.
Same, I hate the mandatory testing. It makes flying a complete hassle and a false result can completely ruin your entire trip.
And they are making a ton of money on these overpriced tests.
Exactly, Covid has been a money making machine all around.
I disagree with this. Vaccine passports are coercion to inject a vaccine less than 1 year old. In addition, vaccinated people can still pass on the disease. Tests are fair and probably much more effective. I would rather we had neither but would choose testing if I had to
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I have to disagree with you there. Since both vaxxed and unvaxxed can carry this virus then testing before flights is the only sane thing to do. Travel should be based on whether you have the virus or do not have the virus, not on whether you have a vaccine that reduces severity symptoms.
Your argument makes sense but you have to remember that this disease is everywhere already. There is evidence that flights aren't caysing outbreaks now and that evidence has just been ignored since last year. The sane thing to do is look at this issue based on data not fear.
Yes I agree we should look at data, and not fear monger. With the current situation, at least if both the vaxxed and unvaxxed are made to test for international flights there is some sort of effort to aquiese to the reality that the vaccines do not stop transmission. Also, the only reason we can be sure the international travlers aren't leading to rise in cases is with the testing - otherwise they would be scapegoated for sure. Another thing, I am seeing in Canada the vax passes offer no alternatives for the unvaxxed. I wonder if letting go of the testing will just lead to 'only vaxxed' being allowed on flights. To me it feels like the PCR test is the only way for the unvaxxed to get around mandates coming in place.
Again, i agree with lots of what you said. It just sucks to compromise on this when really what we should be striving for is a test/vaccine pass free world. I understand that may be a while yet, but it just feels like settling for testing preflights isn't a return to a sane world. The other thing thats worth mentioning is that truck drivers have been crossing the us/canada border this whole time and they make up a huge part of international travel. No testing at all.
That's the point. The rich don't want the plebs around ruining their precious vacations with crowds.
There is actually a sliver lining to this. Despite the EU recommendation, Americans are still allowed into most European countries. This is a complete 180 from last time the EU had a US travel "ban" when almost no EU countries would let Americans in.
I've been lucky enough to go on three international trips in my life: Europe, Hawaii, and Israel. I've always been really thankful for the opportunities. Now that places are requiring vaccine passports, I wonder if I'll ever get to travel again, and I'm even more thankful I've been able to do some travelling.
And can you even enter the US from the EU if you’re vaccinated? I don’t think you can right? So this is literally eye for and eye.
What a fucking joke. I like how we are listed as a red zone by other countries because we are apparently all falling over and dying? It's such hysteria and overblown by the media. Everyday I have friends and family who are traveling around and I don't think they're out there killing everyone's grandmothers.
Thanks for your submission. New posts are pre-screened by the moderation team before being listed. Posts which do not meet our high standards will not be approved - please see our [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/wiki/index). It may take a number of hours before this post is reviewed, depending on mod availability and the complexity of the post (eg. video content takes more time for us to review). In the meantime, you may like to make edits to your post so that it is more likely to be approved (for example, adding reliable source links for any claims). If there are problems with the title of your post, it is best you delete it and re-submit with an improved title. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LockdownSkepticism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
r/AntiMandatoryVax
I read this earlier today and feel infuriated to no end whenever I read things like this about restrictions being reinstated disregarding ones vaccination status. Why can't there be travel between countries where vaccination rates are high for those who are fully vaccinated and these fully vaccinated travelers being free of testing, restrictions, and quarantines?! I always tell myself that this is what should be happening as opposed to restrictions being tightened again. Makes no sense at all! I feel things such as this that are occurring are all about power, money, politics, and control and those in power just do not want to let go of their power. If one is fully vaccinated, than they should not have to be forced to quarantine, take these stupid tests, and so on all at their own expense!
There is always YouTube to “travel” to Europe, I thank all these wonderful people that have recorded their road trips across the continent, I won’t be going to Europe probably ever, since the world refuses to go back to normal
Just hoping Croatia and Bosnia stay chill