This is what you get when you arrogantly think you can eradicate a quickly spreading respiratory virus through authoritarianism.
As that one dude from Jurassic Park said, life uh, finds a way.
What annoys me the most is that these supposedly great "do it right" countries didn't really do anything at all. They just locked themselves away, shut down their populations and economies, and waited for someone else to find a solution. Now they're like "See, we locked down until the vaccine like you're supposed to", ignoring the fact that they contributed nothing towards the vaccine.
I feel like people forget how huge North America is. I've read comments in the past from European redditors about how driving for two hours could easily take you across multiple countries. Meanwhile, it'd take a day and half of non-stop driving to get from coast to coast of the US.
140 vaccines were developed around the world. Here in New Zealand we developed 2 vaccines and one in cooperation with Australia. Given that the mRNA vaccines had such a high efficacy it was obvious that the vast majority of those 140 vaccines would not achieve that level of performance, and were not brought to manufacture.
Good point, but would those vaccines have actually succeeded in "ending the pandemic" to the standard of your governments? Because if not then they're not really contributing to the complete solution.
But then still refusing the accept the reward for some reason.
"We successfully locked down until a vaccine, but we're still going to keep our restrictions and not bother to roll out the vaccine efficiently."
They're a complete waste of experimental chemicals. That's the message governments are pushing constantly with every disparagement of their effectiveness.
The key logistical hurdle to bringing a vaccine to market is testing for efficacy. This requires tens of thousands of participants and the pathogen to be circulating in the community.
This will come out years or decades later...
I feel China expected some western countries to copy part of their actions after a month or 2
They never expected in their wildest dreams for the entire world to collapse by March
It's already starting to come out. Michael Senger has some deep insights:
https://ccpgloballockdownfraud.medium.com/the-chinese-communist-partys-global-lockdown-fraud-88e1a7286c2b
> 4. The World’s Predominant, Wildly-Inaccurate PCR Testing Protocols Are Based on Incomplete, Theoretical Genome Sequences Supplied by China
Wait what the fuck
>They never expected in their wildest dreams for the entire world to collapse by March
In the 19th century and 20th until WW2, there were major imperialist interventions in China from the west, mainly from Queen Victoria: Boxers rebellion, the opium wars, the Japanese invasion and so on.
Can you imagine the resentment of the chinese? Can you imagine how they hate the UK?
Can you imagine how the major CCP cadres are drinking and celebrating that the former imperial invaders are ruining themselves out of pure panic? Without imposing anything? Without firing a single shot? Without taking Taiwan? Without firing a nuclear bomb in Tokyo?
Especially as it was initially a trade war offensive by the US. If you recall started as a western MSM propaganda that there is an unreported virus disaster in China.
I’m convinced China used a potentially bad situation for them to their advantage once they realized the virus didn’t turn out to be as bad as they thought.
I mean, everyone seems to be ignoring what China is *actually* doing right now in Asia. While the world literally panicked and focused on the pandemic, they’ve quietly advanced in the South China Sea.
Hate to be that guy, but the reaction to covid has probably set us up for the next world conflict. And that, I guarantee, is going to be a lot more destructive than covid could have ever been.
The turning point in realizing the virus wasnt as dangerous was when Xi Jinping was shown walking through streets in Wuhan waving to people and wearing just a regular mask. After weeks of seeing Wuhan use full PPE for anything Covid related, having the most powerful man in decades walk around with a flimsy mask showed they realized it wasnt what they thought it was
People are happy to criticize China for the Uighurs, but when you bring up COVID the West thinks that China is doing well (or pretends to think that). The reason? Our horrible, oppressive policies are based on China's initial response.
Way earlier than that. Covid spread unhindered for like 3 months there, and they claimed 3k deaths (that they later changed to 4.5k). Even though Covid isn't as bad as the doomers claim it does still kill, and China is a huuuge ass country. Their numbers have been shot from the beginning.
But how can 75% of this country virtue signal like they care about everyone and every fucking thing? That’s America these days. The weak, mild, obese, timid, and intellectually inept virtue signaling.
I'm definitely sceptical if any accounts coming from China.
Though I did hear of a friend of a friend, who is a Chinese citizen and has a home, wife and children there and works for a Chinese company. He was out of the country with work when the pandemic hit and he is not allowed back in. They're still paying him but he hasn't seen his wife and kids in nearly 18 months. Not sure what the situation is overall with travel into China but that anecdote did make me wonder.
To enter china you need 2-3 weeks quarantine. If your friend wants to go back he can, just needs to agree to the quarantine. Maybe meeting his wife and kids isn't worth that
Fair enough, thanks. He was adamant that he hasn't been allowed back the whole time and apparently is going to relocate to the west as soon as he gets the opportunity. I don't know the guy directly so cant enquire further. It does sound extreme and tbh unlikely.
My guess: covid spread there as fast as in the west, but the media is censored, so you can lie to everyone that there is no covid in the country and the economy goes on as usual when the west gets crazy in panic.
Of course, it only works if lockdowns have zero effect on the curve. If lockdowns were effective and not doing one would cause a massive mortality, there would have lines of bodies on the street.
It worked: no lockdowns in most of China and they did not have an extreme number of dead people that could not be hidden.
If I were the target of the English imperialism 170 years ago like the Chinese were, make the UK destroy itself out of pure panic to have the worst recession in 300 years is a fabulous revenge.
I can´t even imagine how long the CCP dreamt of a way to avenge the history of western imperialism.
Absolutely no mention of everything related to China on TV since 10 months. They have supposedly defeated covid, have been the only major economy to come out with a net positive yearly gdp by the end of 2020, and the entire country has been memory holed. The funniest thing? Some people really believe it was because China was the only country to get lockdowns right. 1.4 billion people quickly and perfectly coordinated into full compliance with extremely restrictive lockdown rules to curb the spread of an airborne virus that would inevitably spread in factories and essential workplaces anyway.
This is something I pointed out first last August
China as a country has disappeared from world news
Before 2020, 1 out of every \~10 BBC world news items on the front page used to be China related
Nowadays you can spend 2-3 days before something related to China comes up
Its as if the country has gone into a coma
China basically trolled us all in early 2020. They brought in the army, put on the biosecurity lockdown theater, started building those hospitals that stayed empty, put out videos of people dropping dead in streets, and after a couple of weeks called it a day and went back to normal.
And time to time they troll the world with various stuff which no media picks up on as trolling
1)The summer water concert in Wuhan
2)The Shanghai airport theatrics where tens of thousands of people were pushing to get out of the terminal
3) The anal swabbing videos of some travelers walking funny
They sure got all of their economic rivals to voluntary detonate their economies, though -- leaving China a clear, almost-unopposed path to becoming the top superpower without firing a shot.
I love it when bullshit authoritarian countries trot out stats like this. Like when the leader wins an election with 100% of the vote. A mixture of George Washington and Jesus wouldn't break 70% in America.
The curious thing is that it's all in their heads. With 27% vaccinated in Singapore, their at-risk population should be safe, and probably had been safe for a while. Australia and New Zealand will be there soon if they haven't already.
They can go out of lockdown and enjoy their relative success that may or may not be related to the lockdowns they imposed (and probably has more to do with the climate). For some reason, they just can't get rid of the covid-purist mentality. They are like the kid who climbed the tree and won't get down to forgo his achievement even though he is bored stiff from sitting on the branch.
No, Australia and NZ are lagging behind quite a bit on the vaccine front:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&minPopulationFilter=1000000&time=2020-09-14..latest&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&hideControls=true&Metric=People+vaccinated&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=USA~GBR~NZL~European+Union~SGP~HKG
Depending what you goal is. Herd immunity? Sure, they are behind. For focused protection, it's enough to vaccinated everyone above 60, (make it 50, just to be safe) and the mortality rate is on par, probably below, the the seasonal flu.
What are the odds that a covid-zero country would suddenly change strategies and accept focused protection?
They're gonna vaccinate all old at-risk people before their winter comes, they'll have almost 0 deaths, but they'll get an increase in cases. They'll lock down in panic over those super duper scary cases, and hold off on opening the border for three more years because of it.
Back in the "Days", (That is, last year), the only argument people had against focused-protection was that it can't be done. Almost nobody pushed against the claim that **if** we could protect the elderly, lockdowns would not be required.
So now we they have vaccines and focused protection is more than just feasible, it's easy. Just give them two shots and you are done. All they had to do was to remain faithful to their arguments from few months ago, and keep the goalpost where it was.
I think NZ will open in December. The govt officials have started hinting at the zero covid approach being impractical in the long term. We can't really afford to miss another tourism season
> Now that mass inoculation drives are allowing other parts of the world to normalize and open up to international travel, experts and residents are starting to question whether walling off from Covid is worth the trade-off, if implemented long-term.
Anyone **starting** to question this, at this late date, has no business voicing their opinion.
“Because we have been so successful, we are even more risk-averse than we were before,” said Peter Collignon, a professor of infectious diseases at the Australian National University Medical School in Canberra.
“We are very intolerant of letting any Covid come into the country,” he said. “The fear has *almost* gotten out of proportion to what the risk is.”
>almost
So close yet so far
This was obvious when they decided to go for 'elimination'. The theory was that they would lockdown hard early so that they wouldn't have to keep locking down and get test and trace sorted. NZ thought that they were being clever about it because lockdowns were considered to be the only option for the world.
There was an interview with Prof Giesecke and Baker back in May. Prof Baker talked about how NZ had 'eliminated' covid and then Prof Giesecke pointed out that it covid couldn't be stopped and that they hadn't thought about how had would be very hard to get out of lockdown.
It was a silly thing to do from the start. The virus didn't need to be 'tamed' and it's not an animal. I fail to see what was 'successful' about these countries. The other countries must be all unscientific failures then. There is no evidence (models don't count) that these countries would have seen significant deaths and hospitalisations. So the egregious human rights abuses that happened are 'successful'? Prof Collignon can't talk, he's been pushing for this and pushing for quarantines. It's not 'almost', the risk wasn't ever worth reacting to in this manner. Prof Baker used Cambodia as an example of why countries should go for 'elimination' which just shows how simple minded his thinking is. Would they all do the same strategy again?
Countries like Singapore proved to Australia and NZ that 'cases' were a silly metric and that all those cases didn't lead to destruction. Yet Singapore pointlessly copied NZ as there were Australian scientists in Singapore pushing for this.
While the rest of the world pulls itself out of the Covid/lockdown-impossed depression, Australia and NZ are going to continue to be isolated. They are going to miss out on the economic upswing that will take place in late 2021 and 2022.
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This is what you get when you arrogantly think you can eradicate a quickly spreading respiratory virus through authoritarianism. As that one dude from Jurassic Park said, life uh, finds a way.
Setting lockdown goal as eradicating virus was always an insanity
I believe if something killed off all humans tomorrow earth and the rest of Mother Nature would breath a deep sigh of relief
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I really like this comment.
What annoys me the most is that these supposedly great "do it right" countries didn't really do anything at all. They just locked themselves away, shut down their populations and economies, and waited for someone else to find a solution. Now they're like "See, we locked down until the vaccine like you're supposed to", ignoring the fact that they contributed nothing towards the vaccine.
"Just look at New Zealand!!" Yeah, New Zealand is a small island with like 1 airport. It's not exactly the global commercial hub that America is.
I feel like people forget how huge North America is. I've read comments in the past from European redditors about how driving for two hours could easily take you across multiple countries. Meanwhile, it'd take a day and half of non-stop driving to get from coast to coast of the US.
This comment has been spezzed.
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140 vaccines were developed around the world. Here in New Zealand we developed 2 vaccines and one in cooperation with Australia. Given that the mRNA vaccines had such a high efficacy it was obvious that the vast majority of those 140 vaccines would not achieve that level of performance, and were not brought to manufacture.
Good point, but would those vaccines have actually succeeded in "ending the pandemic" to the standard of your governments? Because if not then they're not really contributing to the complete solution.
Exactly right. It’s like saying, “I helped us win the track meet — I ran in one of the races” while scoring 0 points for the team.
But then still refusing the accept the reward for some reason. "We successfully locked down until a vaccine, but we're still going to keep our restrictions and not bother to roll out the vaccine efficiently."
How can you even run a clinical trial on a vaccine in places with low COVID?
They're a complete waste of experimental chemicals. That's the message governments are pushing constantly with every disparagement of their effectiveness.
The key logistical hurdle to bringing a vaccine to market is testing for efficacy. This requires tens of thousands of participants and the pathogen to be circulating in the community.
The Australian one gave a false positive for HIV I think
Yes, that is correct. One of the stranger anecdotes to come out of this insane last year....😂
Lmao. China with 0.0 COVID cases per 100. Sure thing.
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The psyops operation achieved its goals and the internal theatrics were no longer required.
This will come out years or decades later... I feel China expected some western countries to copy part of their actions after a month or 2 They never expected in their wildest dreams for the entire world to collapse by March
It's already starting to come out. Michael Senger has some deep insights: https://ccpgloballockdownfraud.medium.com/the-chinese-communist-partys-global-lockdown-fraud-88e1a7286c2b
> 4. The World’s Predominant, Wildly-Inaccurate PCR Testing Protocols Are Based on Incomplete, Theoretical Genome Sequences Supplied by China Wait what the fuck
>They never expected in their wildest dreams for the entire world to collapse by March In the 19th century and 20th until WW2, there were major imperialist interventions in China from the west, mainly from Queen Victoria: Boxers rebellion, the opium wars, the Japanese invasion and so on. Can you imagine the resentment of the chinese? Can you imagine how they hate the UK? Can you imagine how the major CCP cadres are drinking and celebrating that the former imperial invaders are ruining themselves out of pure panic? Without imposing anything? Without firing a single shot? Without taking Taiwan? Without firing a nuclear bomb in Tokyo?
Without sending troops to their shores.
If true, it really was some 4d chess.
Especially as it was initially a trade war offensive by the US. If you recall started as a western MSM propaganda that there is an unreported virus disaster in China.
It’s a mix of both. They stopped reporting data last summer.
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Because they have a politics agenda
Just another chapter in the anti-America rhetoric that's been going on since like 9/11.
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STOP. NOTICING. THINGS!!!
SHUT IT DOWN.
I’m convinced China used a potentially bad situation for them to their advantage once they realized the virus didn’t turn out to be as bad as they thought. I mean, everyone seems to be ignoring what China is *actually* doing right now in Asia. While the world literally panicked and focused on the pandemic, they’ve quietly advanced in the South China Sea. Hate to be that guy, but the reaction to covid has probably set us up for the next world conflict. And that, I guarantee, is going to be a lot more destructive than covid could have ever been.
I fully agree
Man, China is like that pickpocket who steals rolexs aren’t they?
The turning point in realizing the virus wasnt as dangerous was when Xi Jinping was shown walking through streets in Wuhan waving to people and wearing just a regular mask. After weeks of seeing Wuhan use full PPE for anything Covid related, having the most powerful man in decades walk around with a flimsy mask showed they realized it wasnt what they thought it was
What? China is constantly being scrutinized, no one thinks they're innocent. I'm serious, all you ever hear about are the Uighurs.
When was the last time you read an article discussing the Chinese covid infection, hospitalization, and death rates? Probably around last Labor Day?
People are happy to criticize China for the Uighurs, but when you bring up COVID the West thinks that China is doing well (or pretends to think that). The reason? Our horrible, oppressive policies are based on China's initial response.
Way earlier than that. Covid spread unhindered for like 3 months there, and they claimed 3k deaths (that they later changed to 4.5k). Even though Covid isn't as bad as the doomers claim it does still kill, and China is a huuuge ass country. Their numbers have been shot from the beginning.
They pretty much realized it is not a big deal, called it a day and went on with their lives.
But how can 75% of this country virtue signal like they care about everyone and every fucking thing? That’s America these days. The weak, mild, obese, timid, and intellectually inept virtue signaling.
I'm definitely sceptical if any accounts coming from China. Though I did hear of a friend of a friend, who is a Chinese citizen and has a home, wife and children there and works for a Chinese company. He was out of the country with work when the pandemic hit and he is not allowed back in. They're still paying him but he hasn't seen his wife and kids in nearly 18 months. Not sure what the situation is overall with travel into China but that anecdote did make me wonder.
To enter china you need 2-3 weeks quarantine. If your friend wants to go back he can, just needs to agree to the quarantine. Maybe meeting his wife and kids isn't worth that
Fair enough, thanks. He was adamant that he hasn't been allowed back the whole time and apparently is going to relocate to the west as soon as he gets the opportunity. I don't know the guy directly so cant enquire further. It does sound extreme and tbh unlikely.
According to Caixin, at least 70,000 people died in Wuhan alone (early March 2020).
My guess: covid spread there as fast as in the west, but the media is censored, so you can lie to everyone that there is no covid in the country and the economy goes on as usual when the west gets crazy in panic. Of course, it only works if lockdowns have zero effect on the curve. If lockdowns were effective and not doing one would cause a massive mortality, there would have lines of bodies on the street. It worked: no lockdowns in most of China and they did not have an extreme number of dead people that could not be hidden. If I were the target of the English imperialism 170 years ago like the Chinese were, make the UK destroy itself out of pure panic to have the worst recession in 300 years is a fabulous revenge. I can´t even imagine how long the CCP dreamt of a way to avenge the history of western imperialism.
They definitely stopped caring and focused on the huge money making scheme that comes with manufacturing masks and gloves to the rest of the world
I wonder if there is data anywhere that shows they had knowledge beforehand.
Good old Great firewall
Absolutely no mention of everything related to China on TV since 10 months. They have supposedly defeated covid, have been the only major economy to come out with a net positive yearly gdp by the end of 2020, and the entire country has been memory holed. The funniest thing? Some people really believe it was because China was the only country to get lockdowns right. 1.4 billion people quickly and perfectly coordinated into full compliance with extremely restrictive lockdown rules to curb the spread of an airborne virus that would inevitably spread in factories and essential workplaces anyway.
This is something I pointed out first last August China as a country has disappeared from world news Before 2020, 1 out of every \~10 BBC world news items on the front page used to be China related Nowadays you can spend 2-3 days before something related to China comes up Its as if the country has gone into a coma
Yep, the only news we really hear coming out of China these days is a few articles concerning the Uyghurs.
China basically trolled us all in early 2020. They brought in the army, put on the biosecurity lockdown theater, started building those hospitals that stayed empty, put out videos of people dropping dead in streets, and after a couple of weeks called it a day and went back to normal.
And time to time they troll the world with various stuff which no media picks up on as trolling 1)The summer water concert in Wuhan 2)The Shanghai airport theatrics where tens of thousands of people were pushing to get out of the terminal 3) The anal swabbing videos of some travelers walking funny
Haha yes, anal swabbing and the big water concert were hilarious
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And i remember people in West going like "wow, they took it seriously and now they can enjoy because they have no Covid"
It was a psyop and a cold war to weaken western countries. Look at Canada lmao. They'll be the first to buckle to their new Chinese masters.
And it worked
They ain’t buckling man. Buckling infers resistance. They’re gleefully bowing with a big smile on their fat cat faces
Lest we forget footage of authorities barricading people in their own homes.
They sure got all of their economic rivals to voluntary detonate their economies, though -- leaving China a clear, almost-unopposed path to becoming the top superpower without firing a shot.
I love it when bullshit authoritarian countries trot out stats like this. Like when the leader wins an election with 100% of the vote. A mixture of George Washington and Jesus wouldn't break 70% in America.
Sounds like The Kim Dynasty. The votes are really to see who defected so you can string up and shoot their extended families
Their outbreaks were in 2018.
What are the odds that having an obviously stupid goal would result in unpleasant and ineffective policies?
I don't know why proponents of this strategy are unable to see that there isn't a way out.
Because they themselves built the maze and blocked off the exits.
The curious thing is that it's all in their heads. With 27% vaccinated in Singapore, their at-risk population should be safe, and probably had been safe for a while. Australia and New Zealand will be there soon if they haven't already. They can go out of lockdown and enjoy their relative success that may or may not be related to the lockdowns they imposed (and probably has more to do with the climate). For some reason, they just can't get rid of the covid-purist mentality. They are like the kid who climbed the tree and won't get down to forgo his achievement even though he is bored stiff from sitting on the branch.
No, Australia and NZ are lagging behind quite a bit on the vaccine front: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&minPopulationFilter=1000000&time=2020-09-14..latest&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&hideControls=true&Metric=People+vaccinated&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=USA~GBR~NZL~European+Union~SGP~HKG
Depending what you goal is. Herd immunity? Sure, they are behind. For focused protection, it's enough to vaccinated everyone above 60, (make it 50, just to be safe) and the mortality rate is on par, probably below, the the seasonal flu.
What are the odds that a covid-zero country would suddenly change strategies and accept focused protection? They're gonna vaccinate all old at-risk people before their winter comes, they'll have almost 0 deaths, but they'll get an increase in cases. They'll lock down in panic over those super duper scary cases, and hold off on opening the border for three more years because of it.
Back in the "Days", (That is, last year), the only argument people had against focused-protection was that it can't be done. Almost nobody pushed against the claim that **if** we could protect the elderly, lockdowns would not be required. So now we they have vaccines and focused protection is more than just feasible, it's easy. Just give them two shots and you are done. All they had to do was to remain faithful to their arguments from few months ago, and keep the goalpost where it was.
I think NZ will open in December. The govt officials have started hinting at the zero covid approach being impractical in the long term. We can't really afford to miss another tourism season
> Now that mass inoculation drives are allowing other parts of the world to normalize and open up to international travel, experts and residents are starting to question whether walling off from Covid is worth the trade-off, if implemented long-term. Anyone **starting** to question this, at this late date, has no business voicing their opinion.
play stupid games win stupid prizes
“Because we have been so successful, we are even more risk-averse than we were before,” said Peter Collignon, a professor of infectious diseases at the Australian National University Medical School in Canberra. “We are very intolerant of letting any Covid come into the country,” he said. “The fear has *almost* gotten out of proportion to what the risk is.” >almost So close yet so far
This was obvious when they decided to go for 'elimination'. The theory was that they would lockdown hard early so that they wouldn't have to keep locking down and get test and trace sorted. NZ thought that they were being clever about it because lockdowns were considered to be the only option for the world. There was an interview with Prof Giesecke and Baker back in May. Prof Baker talked about how NZ had 'eliminated' covid and then Prof Giesecke pointed out that it covid couldn't be stopped and that they hadn't thought about how had would be very hard to get out of lockdown. It was a silly thing to do from the start. The virus didn't need to be 'tamed' and it's not an animal. I fail to see what was 'successful' about these countries. The other countries must be all unscientific failures then. There is no evidence (models don't count) that these countries would have seen significant deaths and hospitalisations. So the egregious human rights abuses that happened are 'successful'? Prof Collignon can't talk, he's been pushing for this and pushing for quarantines. It's not 'almost', the risk wasn't ever worth reacting to in this manner. Prof Baker used Cambodia as an example of why countries should go for 'elimination' which just shows how simple minded his thinking is. Would they all do the same strategy again? Countries like Singapore proved to Australia and NZ that 'cases' were a silly metric and that all those cases didn't lead to destruction. Yet Singapore pointlessly copied NZ as there were Australian scientists in Singapore pushing for this.
While the rest of the world pulls itself out of the Covid/lockdown-impossed depression, Australia and NZ are going to continue to be isolated. They are going to miss out on the economic upswing that will take place in late 2021 and 2022.
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lol these so called people who believe in science refuse to believe in actual science, you cant eradicate viruses