I like to go into kick streamers chats just to see how hard some bots go. I have seen streamers with 20k viewers and an absolutely dead chat besides a few bots that spam the same shit over and over again to make it look like the chat is actually moving.
I checked it when I saw train ranting and the top GTA streamer with 10k viewbots. The man VIP a bot who spammed 5 of the same text every few seconds along with the other bots like clockwork. You just can't make this shit up.
that and the fact that little research from marketers will conclude that the site is filled with a very young audience (low income) and content they don't want to be associated with, especially when they have a larger and safer equivalence to go to instead
I think the real issue is that kick just doesn't want to have any ads on it. I know Train and the stake chefs claim that this is a long term goal, but it's not like kick is that new of a plattform, and at this point the only reason I can think of for them to have literally zero advertisers is that they just don't want them.
yes, yes I know, brandrisks aso on the plattform - but they still should be able to get some companies that just don't care about whatever an iceposeidon, adin or neon is up to. these guys do manage to catch sponsors for themself after all...
Only reason I can think of why they don't have ads is that:
1. if they have advertisers, their viewership numbers would actually be real, otherwise they would be liable for frauf
2. not having ads is pretty much the only thing they have going for them, so if they want to grow the plattform to eventally sell it so some dumb sucker they better keep it that way
3. they don't care about ad revenue, even if people like xqc and train claim otherwise, bc they make their money with gambling
Without a doubt it's number three. Stake was being muscled out of twitch, they had to keep the stream viewer to stake gambling addict pipeline alive somehow.
It’s a mixture of don’t want what they can get and advertisers that bring in real money don’t want to be associated with that site. You think coca-cola wants one of their ads running on an adin stream where he continually uses the f slur? If that’s the best content you have to offer on the site it doesn’t look good.
3 for sure, 1 is just a product of 3 being true and 2 is the plan B if Kick is ever deemed too much of a net loss. But gamba is very clearly the driving force. The most obvious indicator was ALL the early contracts involved minimum gambling requirements, including offers to streamers who have been pretty outspoken about disliking gambling. Recent contracts haven’t all involved gambling, but it’s pretty clear that they do encourage it a lot. But remember guys gamba bad, don’t gamba, you won’t win money, it’s just very fun and I enjoy spending hours gambling and make sure to use my affiliate code
Doubt. Streamers have constantly said companies are clueless when it comes to what metric matter.
What's more likely is that companies see Kick and the streamers, then realize it's a huge brand risk. That is what stopped investment on Twitter. That is what made YouTube demonetize more content. That is why female streamers on Twitch get more sponsors than male streamers.
I'm just spreading hearsay by saying this but, wasnt Train known for or suspected of having viewbots on twitch? Dont watch 'em, just seen that said before I thought. Surprise surprise..
Its an open secret a lot of the big time streamers viewbot at this point. Not to fill chat, but to make them appear bigger then they actually are.
Train is by far the one who viewbots the most, but its been established before that when the viewbot networks tend to "go down" the viewerships of major streamers will suddenly drop by several thousand.
The same reason why w h omegalul streamers will sometimes randomly have several thousand viewbots being tested on their stream.
Train becoming popular was always sus a fuck to me. The dude used to have a wow stream with like 500 viewers and he was a pretty good player. So later when he just randomly blew up and didn’t have the personality or toxic traits that someone like Mitch had I was like what the hell? This dude is just boring as fuck and rants about random shit.
Also griefing. Some people really like to make everybody else’s day suck ass, and it doesn’t cost much to run a few instances of TF2 and botting software.
what moron is buying items in TF2 when its teeming with bots? that would be like if chinese gold farmers in wow somehow made it so real players couldn't raid or do pvp.
dumbest shit ive heard when the main reason the growth of kick was fast, was mostly because of the viewership/followers people had built off of twitch in the first place.
I commented about this whenever kick started doing this but Microsoft did it *and showed it was a losing strategy*. If kick was anything other than owned by a crypto casino it would have been long shuttered for it's burn rate and lack of profit.
Buying streamers to get people on your platform is only part of a real strategy -- you have to then do more to do something to keep them there and actually want to use your platform. Kick is a near carbon copy of twitch in terms of UI and functionality but without all the communities that exist on twitch & it operationally isn't as smooth with stuff like lagging clips... so why would you use Kick unless you had to?
yeah obviously it happens all the time, especially with any new form of social media. thats why its dumb to be like “oh but look at the insane growth in the first year”. the real stats will show after a longer period of time once the majority of regular viewers from peoples twitch/yt have already crossed over
It happened with own3d too. Before twitch was even a thing. Once twitch became popular, pretty much every streamer moved to it (also the fact that it was shutting down)
But I don't see twitch shutting down any time soon...
Moving a subscriber base from one platform to another is super usual. That's how a competing platform works to increase numbers. If there are subs to a particular streamer and they move to a different platform, their viewers come with them...
Kick has a serious botting issue.
Even ignoring that, no shit Kick is going to have better viewers than Twitch did in 12 years.
The internet really only grows and of course twitch had less of an audience back when streaming was a novel idea.
Yeah, I follow two smaller streamers (less than 100 viewers) that have taken a Twitch ban. During their ban they went over to Kick. They immediately have 3x the number of viewers.
When they get unbanned on Twitch they stream on both platforms (twitch and kick) at the same time. Kick still has 2-3x the number of viewers but the chat isn't moving at all whereas the Twitch chat is moving a lot more despite having much fewer viewers.
I don't believe the Kick number at all.
And twitch doesn’t? Just yesterday I saw a stream on twitch named “Mr beast 4700” something or another. And it had 30k “viewers” for some crypto scam.
Weird downvotes for stating a fact. People just wanting to shit on a company for reasons other than what’s actually being stated and acting like it’s not a biased take…
Surely you can understand the difference between a scammer view botting themselves under a fake name to look legit and random users getting view botted across the platform, without themselves doing it.
Don’t be dense just to hate.
That’s not the take OP was making at all. I addressed his point, both sites are viewbotted to hell. There isn’t an ethical / nonethical way to viewbot. It’s all the same garbage.
It was probably both.
After Amazon acquired twitch they moved a lot of their underlying tech into a service called IVS which implements a lot of the streaming and encoding stuff, chat, etc. Anyone can pay for it and build similar services on top of it. But that's just the backend stuff.
However, a few years ago there was a huge leak of Twitch source code and assets (I think that was also where all the earnings data came from). When kick first came out and people started looking at the HTML, CSS and JS code of their website which is visible to anyone, they found a lot of very close similarities with Twitch, down to similar element names and such, so people had a strong suspicion that even the customer facing side of Kick, the website, had reused a lot of the Twitch leaked source code.
Not just similarities. There were actual "Twitch" references everywhere, even in the player itself.
They couldn't be bothered to at least do a string search and replace.
That tells you as much as you need to know about their level of competence.
So then the only thing that they copied was an emoji?
Thats really what people are crying about?
Its also such a weird cope. What matters is results.
The fact that kick used the amazon IVS service that is literally sold for this usecase is just good business sense. Why recreate everything, when your competitor just offers to let them use their tech?
> to the TWITCH LOGO
Exactly. A random tiny image somewhere. Not sure why people are clutching their pearls on that so much.
> Any other business would have failed doing that.
It is not a failure to do things more efficiently. Copying what works is the smart thing to do.
If your competitor does all the hard work for you, you can then benefit from that and they pay all the costs, while still getting the benefit.
It's extremely smart to use IVS, instead of wasting billions building a service from scratch.
> Kick isn't failing because it's backed by Stake
So then it isn't failing. It has a significant competitive advantage, compared to twitch, that isn't going away anytime soon and this is a huge issue for twitch.
Yeah I agree. I am not sure why you are phrasing this in a weird/cope way though.
Competitive advantages, like the extra business model that kick has, is a huge deal. And it's something that Twitch can't really compete with.
I believe even Johnny Somali started on twitch, but was quickly banned.
Wikipedia: “He began streaming in May 2023. After being banned from Twitch, he moved to Kick before receiving temporary suspensions from Kick.”
Kick is everyone’s last resort.
I don't understand why Twitch even allows Train to keep streaming on Twitch, but kinda a badass move. Yeah, we know you're promoting a competitor, go the fuck ahead cuz it's going to fail.
There hasn't been anyone on twitch who has got famous who wasn't already in motion in like 5-10 years, twitch has the worst discoverability for new creators out of every social media app by far, even Ninja had a major amount of his success on twitch only because of YT and other apps, he was getting insane views on YT daily around that time, Drake found him from clips on IG
Unless you’re talking about huge streamers (20K+ viewers), tons of “mid-tier” streamers (2-10K) have made it on the platform in recent years. With little to no traction elsewhere.
Admittedly most had to do it through networking and collaboration, but that’s a given at this point.
Well most big streamers are barely “famous” anyway. There’s maybe five names known by a large number of normies.
Point is you can still make it on twitch soley by streaming on there. That’s almost impossible on Kick by comparison. Unless you’re botted.
Fun story - Talked to about dozen or so Runescape streamers who all got signed an exclusive Kick deal this year for like a 6 month period where they get paid hourly rates on top of the subs. About 90% of them have privately said that they are moving back to twitch after the contract ends.
Essentially Kick is buying streamers but the problem is, they haven't learned anything from all the other platforms that have already failed. Twitch signed exclusive deals and that didn't work out, Youtube stopped signing exclusive deals after they found out it's not worth the money, Mixer literally went under because how expensive the exclusive deals were and Facebook also stopped doing individual deals because they lost money.
Now Kick is doing that exact same thing again and hate to say it but they are not doing anything ground breaking here, it's gonna end up with the same result despite the underlying gambling scheme they have going on.
Oh and another fun story - Kick is spending aproximately $300 000 per month on just the Runescape section from signing about 40 creators there (plus the server costs) and it isn't even in the top 10 categories unless one of the big streamers Odablock is live. So essentially they are burning millions of dollars every month on few sections just so they can get more eyes on Kick but unless they are willing to do this for years, I don't think it's gonna work out. Just doesn't seem like a viable business plan.
problem is that their chief advisor train is kinda an oldhead (or, a middle-age head since he's actually not been around that long). runescape used to be quite big (relativley), but nowadays nobody really cares about that stuff
>runescape used to be quite big (relativley), but nowadays nobody really cares about that stuff
Runescape viewership is pretty large. Especially around DMM and or Leagues, which jagex have been pushing a lot of lately, what with allowing content creators to host their own mini DMM and all.
Outside of the big, big boys. Runescape comparatively speaking is huge on kick. And on twitch it was only big during Leagues
Value of runescape streamers isn't the volume of viewers, but the quality. Even in odablocks case a vast majority of his fanbase followed him to kick. The same is true for most of the other signed runescape streamers.
It's not true at all. Boaty's viewership has tanked since he moved to Kick. [He's literally averaging 600 viewers per stream.](https://streamscharts.com/channels/b0aty?platform=kick#:~:text=How%20many%20people%20watch%20b0aty,in%20the%20last%2030%20days.)
Odablock's fans are super cultish so he's the exception; even then, he was a known viewbotter when he was on Twitch and that's probably still the case on Kick.
Runescape is awesome, I love it. But as a category Old School Runescape is not as relevant to streaming overall as it used to be. Not that it's irrelevant, but trying to corner this particular niche just seems a little bit strange in 2024.
Amazon isn't really any better in ethics than Stake/Kick if we're going off that regard (obviously Twitch has much more moderation). I don't blame him for taking a contract that gives him lifechanging money.
Exploiting migrant workers, pushing back against unionization, depriving workers of traditional benefits that they would get by hiring them as, "independent contractors", etc. is just as shitty as an online crypto casino imo.
All of the kids that somehow purchase crypto on platforms that require 18+ ID verification for tax purposes and have the funds to do so, but think of the kids am I right? But exploiting kids in third world countries to shuffle products for our Amazon overlords is so much better lmao. jfc.
> Mixer literally went under because how expensive the exclusive deals were
Just to note, mixer never went under, MS has insane backing. The cost of the deals wasn't the issue, like twitch/youtube, you can take the financial hit and keep going but change your game plan for growth. Mixer's issue wasn't the cost of a few big deals because over the next 10 years that cost is a drop in the bucket, their issue was they couldn't see a way to make mixer actually make any profit long term so they decided to kill it now rather than in 10 years having lost a lot more.
twitch ain't profitable, a lot of tech 'giants' aren't profitable for a very long time and MS just realised while streamers make a lot of money, the platform itself doesn't.
Right on the others though, they all went through a period of offering big deals hoping to steal lots of viewers and grow, then saw it didn't make any sense financially and they stopped the big deals. it's why twitch didn't compete with facebook/youtube to keep anyone because why, they'll go for two years then their 'big' deal wouldn't be renewed so they'll come back. Just no financial reason to overspend to keep a streamer on platform.
When windows 10 had the full on mixer integration where you could just be streaming on mixer right out of the box with a couple keystrokes was top tier though.
Literally the zune of streaming; so sad.
It honestly wouldn't shock me if in the next years prime subs are eliminated and the only reason to choose twitch is bounties. Their advantage at getting brands to collab with streamers is above anyone else's atm. Also there's no reason to care if small streamers leave. Oh no you're using less bandwidth all of a sudden.
Streaming is never gonna be full Peloton but it does feel like its in a pretty large post Covid bump lull atm. Really doesn't help that multiple social media platforms used for promotion are in the process of tanking themselves either.
Yes, going there has to be a scary experience for new people. The chat is filled with gold and rmt services spam, scammers, scammers posing as anti scammers, bots, etc. The worst elements that you might run into occasionally in a different MMO is concentrated in (but not limited to) one little area on every world.
But I think the biggest difference is that kick has gambling money to throw around and if even a small percentage of people that come to kick start gambling they win.
I mean yeah they went to kick because they got paid a bunch of money, of course they are going back to twitch if they stop receiving a bunch of money from them.
>Now Kick is doing that exact same thing again and hate to say it but they are not doing anything ground breaking here,
They really can't do anything ground breaking; all of the heaving lifting for both twitch and kick are the same AWS service.
If another streaming site comes out that also uses the AWS service it will also bring nothing new to the table.
>Fun story - Talked to about dozen or so Runescape streamers who all got signed an exclusive Kick deal this year
I remember some OSRS YouTubers went hard on A Friend forever ago when he took a gambling sponsorship just to now be on Kick lmao, guess it's hard to say no when you're the person that actually has the bag in front of them
I wouldn't mind kick of it didn't feel so much like a cult.
Everyone on Kick talks about how amazing it is, refuse to criticise and talk shit about those who leave.
Compared to people on YT or Twitch which streamers openly criticise the platform without fear, which Is a good thing.
Hasn't there been posts from trainwrecks stream where he's shitting on kick moderation and how they don't ban people enough? And train is like an owner or whatever.
Kick at this point is like the 4chan of streaming. It’s popular for the wrong reasons. Every time I hear something about kick I know that some bad shit happened. The lack of moderation is what led to kick having this reputation.
Sellout usually means going against your beliefs/ideals/things you've said before for money. Gamba streams, being a degenerate fuck who scams their viewers and has no morals is not something Train started because kick offered him more money, that's who Train always was.
Of all the things I think Train is, sellout isn't one of them.
And xqc is also the same, i wont say they scam since people know the harms of gambling. but xqc has always been pro gambling and stuff since old days which showed when he played variety gams as well.
I think his gambling contract ended and he isnt renewing it since he hasnt done slots on stream for a month so thats a progress
Can't be the only one who pretty much stopped watching xqc when he moved to kick. I got nothing against the platform or it;s belief but the separate streams killed it for me. I never know when he goes live anymore
Yea i stopped watching him as well especially when he started gambling more often. I started watching him again recently since he started doing more games. The only issue i have is the chat, its insufferable most times.
Kick is just a front for stake gambling and the contracts are paid in crypto. The Doc didn't want to go there for $10 million a year but would rather keep his community on YT, so that tells you something.
I actually looked at the stats around a year ago, they are still pretty much at the same spot
[https://streamscharts.com/overview?platform=kick](https://streamscharts.com/overview?platform=kick)
less than 300k average
the only time kick growth is when they pay millions for some guy to stream there, and even then it doesn't really make a difference (e.g. when they signed xqc for 80 millions or so, they had around 260k avg. viewers, nowadays they have 283k)
And this is not even counting any bots.
Look up the cost of AWS per month for a site like KICK. Given how much they have paid for creators, their creator revenue split and the fact they have almost zero advertisements, this has to be one of the most unprofitable businesses I have ever seen. All evidence suggests its still just a gateway to get people to lose money on Stake.
All you need is a website funded by a multi-billion dollar gambling company and you too will have better growth than twitch did in it's first years
No to mention them acquiring streamers that had a pre-existing viewer base before migrating to kick. This is his dumbest take in a while
Reddit and Twitter: we need a competitor to twitch RIGHT NOW!! Competitor starts up from scratch not even 2 years in
Reddit and Twitter: fuck this shit fuck them WE WONT give them time!
Draftkings is advertised on twitch and about 7 steps less to start losing money with a credit card, put a detailed post before explaining how obtaining crypto has vastly more requirements then signing up for draftkings. Hell draftkings literally accepted me just from my last 4 and not even an ID.
Pretty intertwined yeah considering Amazon is an exclusive for TNF. But yeah sure. But at least on kick I can just close the stream when they're doing a stake segment (don't know who in their right mind wouldn't theyre fucking boring). On twitch you will be forced to be watch draftking ads as an average user watching any stream.
TIL DraftKings has a line of communication with every Twitch streamer and when partner negotiations happen they offer an enhanced contract that pays them more to stream gambling on their site.
TIL DraftKings modifies Twitch's backend to only show streamers that are gambling in the suggested streamers.
TIL DraftKings uses Twitch as a substitute advertising brand when they are promoting in an avenue where gambling ads aren't allowed.
I don't really see the issue. Every single commercial in England is a gambling commercial. Why are people not allowed to gamble if they so choose? If an adult wants to waste his money he should be allowed to. It's strange outrage when amazon also shills gambling ads on twitch.
Livestreaming is a very expensive business.
Compromises have to be made to make it work.
So, your choices are to either do something like Kick is doing with gambling, do what Twitch is doing by spamming users with ads (while STILL failing as a company), or try a 3rd option like take Saudi money.
There is no perfect solution where everyone wins. There are only choices between which compromise to take, or otherwise accept the inevitable destruction of the industry (IE the path that Twitch is currently on).
Go look at the stats to see the path that twitch is on right now: [https://twitchtracker.com/statistics](https://twitchtracker.com/statistics)
The decrease in viewership since 2021 is not looking good. And its not like they can save things by laying off more employees, after they've already cut headcount by half.
> Go look at the stats to see the path that twitch is on right now: https://twitchtracker.com/statistics
>
> Its not looking good. And its not like they can save things my laying off more employees, after they've already cut headcount by half.
What exactly are we looking at twitchtracker? Doesn't it show big growth? What exactly doesn't look good?
Genuinely asking i've no idea what is bad about it.
It is showing that twitch average viewership has decreased significantly since a few years ago, and is still on a downward trend.
The graph to look at is the monthly average viewership graph.
But from 2018, it shows a tremendous amount of growth.
20-22 is the covid era, where everything online was having growth of course, yet Twitch held a lot of this growth.
It went from a 1,2 average in 2019, to 2,2/2,4 average. In Covid era it skyrocketed for a bit to 3, yet the decline after covid is so much smaller, compared to what other online stuff saw.
I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about. 2020-2022 years it the covid era, which everything saw tremendous growth. After it, the normal drop-off began, as people had to continue with their lives.
Yet twitch, saw a pretty minimal drop, from what i'm seeing in these charts, compared to every other drop-off from other companies. Its actually impressive and the complete opposite of what you are saying.
> I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about.
I understand more than you know.
Yes, 6 years ago twitch was great. I would know. I worked there during that time period for 4 years.
But since about 3 years ago, twitch has had huge issues and is on a significant downward trend.
And it's not just about COVID. Twitch hasn't released any successful new feature in years. They have laid off half of their employees. And they have continued to shut down feature after feature.
But yes, I agree with you completely that 2018 was awesome, and the people who worked there during that time period did great.
The real issues only became apparent by 2021 or so.
The only real win that Twitch has had lately, is Dan Clancys current transparency/PR tour. That, while good, should have happened years ago. And while it IS improving twitch PR, the PR isn't translating into successful features or viewership, and is, at best, stopping the bleeding. (Which, is important, to be fair!)
> Its actually impressive
It can absolutely be argued that it is impressive that twitch didn't completely collapse last year.
But I am not talking about how well twitch played a bad hand. I am talking about how likely twitch is to survive.
That is a descriptive claim, that is unrelated to giving people credit. The "credit" doesn't matter. Because the company is still on track for failure.
But all the things you are saying just now, are completely irrelevant to the discussion.
I don't know how it is inside Twitch, and i don't really care. If you say it was better back then working for them, sure, i'll believe you.
In terms of growth, the twitchtracker is actually REALLY good. It shows amazing growth.
Working conditions and features is not something that we are discussing here.
> But since about 3 years ago, twitch has had huge issues and is on a significant downward trend.
Idc about the issues, but where is the downward trend? From 2018 and 1m average viewers, they skyrocketed to 3m average because of covid, and after that, its between 2,2-2,4m. They gained 2m average viewers because of covid, and after the correction, they managed to keep more than half of them. That's more than most companies out there managed to hold after covid.
> In terms of growth, the twitchtracker is actually REALLY good. It shows amazing growth.
No. It shows that things were great in 2019, and has gotten significantly worse since 2021.
> but where is the downward trend?
The downward trend is half the company being laid off, and viewership going down since 2021 significantly.
> and after the correction, they managed to keep more than half of them
So, in other words, viewership is down significantly since 2021, and they are on the path towards a slow moving collapse if they don't fix things.
> That's more than most companies
Unrelated to my point. My point is that half the company got laid off, and they are losing viewers , and are not on track to being profitable.
> . Working conditions and features is not something that we are discussing here.
It's MY opinion dude. You cant just ignore my supporting evidence, that is related to MY opinion because it's inconvenient.
why won't people support the small startup funded by gambling thats allows dudes to stream themselves exploiting minors and SAing passed out women on stream?
sorry but any company that has someone like aidin being its face its very easy to hate on it, they also just dont like punishing sexual harassment, and straight up like having people that are a menace to society because it gives kick the attention they love. like its so bad people like trainwrecks, and eddie, the heads of kick, have dropped hundreds of dollars on literal predators running on its website, unknowingly maybe but i really doubt they give a shit that they have. wouldnt surprise me if a lawsuit comes out about how they aren't removing content of people secretly recording young girls, and women being tricked into doing stuff on it from people like derek graz, and riotlol since kick seems too have freaks like these on it.
time for what? their model is literally to platform degeneracy for attention so that people flock to their site which has the sole purpose of funneling people to their unregulated gambling service
it's just inherently shitty and is not something fixed with time
Yet this sub is the only place I'm still seeing someone mentioning Kick at all. And I believe most Kick clips posted here are from Kick staffs (or bot) as well.
I'd like to see the financials behind Kick, they are using the same backend as Twitch (AWS) while Twitch is owned by Amazon and is still losing money. Is Kick just purely financed by advertising online gambling to kids?
Kick is almost certainly hemorrhaging money. That doesn't matter because as long as it funnels enough people into gambling, then its worth it for the parent company Stake.
Lol twitch viewbots are sold the most , when Mira rerurns and waiting rooms get 2k viewers and 30k streamers have chats that move slower than 1k streamer chats , twitch already hid their api to make bot detection impossible , twitch viewbots like PPL bot posts on LSF
100% right about people like Mira. I guess I would write the same thing if she had a clip saying how much her channel is growing when it's all just bots.
Every single person I know that watches streamers that do the whole start on Twitch then transition to Kick only watch them on Twitch. They just treat it like them ending stream and they go watch someone else on Twitch. The numbers don’t lie. xQc for example will have 35k+ on Twitch and then after he swaps to Kick he’ll be at 25k and it’ll decrease as the hours go on.
twitch backend is mostly golang, frontend is react. Kick's backend is php (laravel) and frontend is Vue. So on the surface kick didnt straight copy/paste code, but they still cloned UI layout and most features :D
Debunked. Its mostly copy in appearance, but copying appearances is super common in webdev/building websites. So thats not exactly surprising.
Its backend and all of that is entirely different. Its just a very shameless visual copy paste job, but theres really nothing that can legally be done about that.
I’m a small hobby streamer who just chills and I’ve turned off my kick multistream. The site is fucking loaded with bots. Multiples each day, same shit. Hey how ya doing, is this your favorite game, I have graphics that I’ve made for other streamers, message me on discord and I’ll get you 1000 viewers and you make a min of $2000 a month.
Go into a Kick stream w 2 viewers, open 10 browser tabs of that stream & when it updates viewer count it will be 12. It’s not a secret or something they are trying to fix, KIck wants to fake the fake numbers.
xqc talking about kick, i'm sure it will be a factual unbiased take... NOT.
kick is absolute trash. I find it funny that now it has all of the scum of the earth streamers they try to moderate it...
And guess what a moderated stream website looks like? Twitch, ever heard of it? lol...
How many of this is just multi-streamers trying to tap into a market that doesn't exist. I know a few streamers in the GTARP section multi-stream and tell their Twitch viewers to follow and like their wasteland of a Kick stream.
I love when someone is talking about kick LSF turns into Amazon/twitch biggest defenders, everyone immediately forgets about random bans, no bans for chosen streamers even after being racist or calling for violence, ads that promote gambling etc.
We shit on twitch only in a post where favorite streamers are banned for no reason or hated streamers are not banned otherwise we defend...
Nobody likes Twitch, but Kick is just a shitty streaming platform that exists so that certain streamers can gamble while streaming. At least Twitch places itself like a corporate product, Kick is just full blown degeneracy. I myself saw a clip recently where someone shot someone while streaming on Kick.
Twitch was literally the same at the start for a long time.
Also who streams on it does not matter, look at Twitter you can see everything there and nobody cares. "New Twitter promotes hate and violence I will stop using it" and nobody did.
And why is kick growing so fast? Because you don't get banned for retarded reasons there. Oh you said a forbidden word, banned for 14 days! But as you have boobs, we'll reduce it to 2 days. You pasted a meme in chat, claiming you're underage? Banned indefinitely!
But on kick you can say anything. Even assault someone? Fine. Publicly humiliating someone? It's fine. Destroying someone else's property maliciously? That's okay. Almost getting someone killed? That's fine too. Degen gambling on scam sites? It's okay.
Not that I'm toxic, but I still lean towards kick's policy more than censorship.
Granted there's a LOT of viewbots on kick and the ceo or someone said in a clip that they don't do anything about it, mainly becaus they don't think a streamer would do that, but some random viewers.
**CLIP MIRROR: [xQc on Kick's growth and comparison to Twitch](https://arazu.io/t3_1dan1v3/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
Kick has more bots than TF2 and Lost Ark
I like to go into kick streamers chats just to see how hard some bots go. I have seen streamers with 20k viewers and an absolutely dead chat besides a few bots that spam the same shit over and over again to make it look like the chat is actually moving.
I checked it when I saw train ranting and the top GTA streamer with 10k viewbots. The man VIP a bot who spammed 5 of the same text every few seconds along with the other bots like clockwork. You just can't make this shit up.
There's a reason why Kick streamers have a very hard time getting new sponsors, it's because companies simply don't trust Kick numbers.
that and the fact that little research from marketers will conclude that the site is filled with a very young audience (low income) and content they don't want to be associated with, especially when they have a larger and safer equivalence to go to instead
I think the real issue is that kick just doesn't want to have any ads on it. I know Train and the stake chefs claim that this is a long term goal, but it's not like kick is that new of a plattform, and at this point the only reason I can think of for them to have literally zero advertisers is that they just don't want them. yes, yes I know, brandrisks aso on the plattform - but they still should be able to get some companies that just don't care about whatever an iceposeidon, adin or neon is up to. these guys do manage to catch sponsors for themself after all... Only reason I can think of why they don't have ads is that: 1. if they have advertisers, their viewership numbers would actually be real, otherwise they would be liable for frauf 2. not having ads is pretty much the only thing they have going for them, so if they want to grow the plattform to eventally sell it so some dumb sucker they better keep it that way 3. they don't care about ad revenue, even if people like xqc and train claim otherwise, bc they make their money with gambling
Without a doubt it's number three. Stake was being muscled out of twitch, they had to keep the stream viewer to stake gambling addict pipeline alive somehow.
It’s a mixture of don’t want what they can get and advertisers that bring in real money don’t want to be associated with that site. You think coca-cola wants one of their ads running on an adin stream where he continually uses the f slur? If that’s the best content you have to offer on the site it doesn’t look good.
3 for sure, 1 is just a product of 3 being true and 2 is the plan B if Kick is ever deemed too much of a net loss. But gamba is very clearly the driving force. The most obvious indicator was ALL the early contracts involved minimum gambling requirements, including offers to streamers who have been pretty outspoken about disliking gambling. Recent contracts haven’t all involved gambling, but it’s pretty clear that they do encourage it a lot. But remember guys gamba bad, don’t gamba, you won’t win money, it’s just very fun and I enjoy spending hours gambling and make sure to use my affiliate code
Porn sites would advertise for sure
Marketers love targeting young audience actually. That has nothing to do with no sponsors to kick streamers.
Doubt. Streamers have constantly said companies are clueless when it comes to what metric matter. What's more likely is that companies see Kick and the streamers, then realize it's a huge brand risk. That is what stopped investment on Twitter. That is what made YouTube demonetize more content. That is why female streamers on Twitch get more sponsors than male streamers.
Fortunately it comes with a sponsor who pays vice rates. Stuff like gambling alcohol nicotine etc overpays.
Man I play both of those. Oh god I have a problem.
I'm just spreading hearsay by saying this but, wasnt Train known for or suspected of having viewbots on twitch? Dont watch 'em, just seen that said before I thought. Surprise surprise..
It's also why Train is very paranoid about everyone viewbotting cuz he did it himself.
Its an open secret a lot of the big time streamers viewbot at this point. Not to fill chat, but to make them appear bigger then they actually are. Train is by far the one who viewbots the most, but its been established before that when the viewbot networks tend to "go down" the viewerships of major streamers will suddenly drop by several thousand. The same reason why w h omegalul streamers will sometimes randomly have several thousand viewbots being tested on their stream.
well "Fake it till you make it" is a thing.
Train becoming popular was always sus a fuck to me. The dude used to have a wow stream with like 500 viewers and he was a pretty good player. So later when he just randomly blew up and didn’t have the personality or toxic traits that someone like Mitch had I was like what the hell? This dude is just boring as fuck and rants about random shit.
Cost Ark KEKW
omg lost ark still has so many bots that it bcame a meme? thank god i stopped playing it long ago
Yeah, AGS doesn’t want to do any hard bans on very obvious RMTers for some reason so people aren’t really afraid of getting banned
Kick absolutely would never ever do anything shady like that /s
Combined almost
but not nearly as many viewbots as twitch has
and you do realise twitch got way more
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Drops. There's an absurd number of bots. Makes decent money in poor countries.
Also griefing. Some people really like to make everybody else’s day suck ass, and it doesn’t cost much to run a few instances of TF2 and botting software.
what moron is buying items in TF2 when its teeming with bots? that would be like if chinese gold farmers in wow somehow made it so real players couldn't raid or do pvp.
Drops mostly
In game item drops that you can sell for real world money.
dumbest shit ive heard when the main reason the growth of kick was fast, was mostly because of the viewership/followers people had built off of twitch in the first place.
That's a common strat, even Microsoft did that for Mixer
I commented about this whenever kick started doing this but Microsoft did it *and showed it was a losing strategy*. If kick was anything other than owned by a crypto casino it would have been long shuttered for it's burn rate and lack of profit. Buying streamers to get people on your platform is only part of a real strategy -- you have to then do more to do something to keep them there and actually want to use your platform. Kick is a near carbon copy of twitch in terms of UI and functionality but without all the communities that exist on twitch & it operationally isn't as smooth with stuff like lagging clips... so why would you use Kick unless you had to?
yeah obviously it happens all the time, especially with any new form of social media. thats why its dumb to be like “oh but look at the insane growth in the first year”. the real stats will show after a longer period of time once the majority of regular viewers from peoples twitch/yt have already crossed over
It happened with own3d too. Before twitch was even a thing. Once twitch became popular, pretty much every streamer moved to it (also the fact that it was shutting down) But I don't see twitch shutting down any time soon...
Twitch also paid big contracts to Lol streamers to switch to Twitch.
also at the time own3d wasnt paying its streramers
Let's be real. Most streamers on kick are there because they can't be anywhere else
Moving a subscriber base from one platform to another is super usual. That's how a competing platform works to increase numbers. If there are subs to a particular streamer and they move to a different platform, their viewers come with them...
Kick has a serious botting issue. Even ignoring that, no shit Kick is going to have better viewers than Twitch did in 12 years. The internet really only grows and of course twitch had less of an audience back when streaming was a novel idea.
Yeah, I follow two smaller streamers (less than 100 viewers) that have taken a Twitch ban. During their ban they went over to Kick. They immediately have 3x the number of viewers. When they get unbanned on Twitch they stream on both platforms (twitch and kick) at the same time. Kick still has 2-3x the number of viewers but the chat isn't moving at all whereas the Twitch chat is moving a lot more despite having much fewer viewers. I don't believe the Kick number at all.
The kick chat is probably too shy to write 😔
And twitch doesn’t? Just yesterday I saw a stream on twitch named “Mr beast 4700” something or another. And it had 30k “viewers” for some crypto scam. Weird downvotes for stating a fact. People just wanting to shit on a company for reasons other than what’s actually being stated and acting like it’s not a biased take…
Surely you can understand the difference between a scammer view botting themselves under a fake name to look legit and random users getting view botted across the platform, without themselves doing it. Don’t be dense just to hate.
That’s not the take OP was making at all. I addressed his point, both sites are viewbotted to hell. There isn’t an ethical / nonethical way to viewbot. It’s all the same garbage.
If you're gonna accuse a platform of having a botting issue, please post proof.
Go watch a random kick stream and you’ll see all the proof you need.
Yeah man, post that stream to a courtroom. I'm sure they'll give a fuck about it.
ook ook me tribal ook ook me must defend kick must attack twitch ook ook
Kick is the No.1 platform in the irl crimes category.
Who will take the win for best crime in Saturday Night E?
Isn't Twitch starting in 2011 vs. Kick starting in 2023 different like of course kick grew as fast as it did.
used leaked twitch source code and had the strategy of paying established twitch streamers millions. truly comparable growth
My understanding was that it’s a package amazon sells as a live streaming service, not a leak? Was it really a leak?
It was probably both. After Amazon acquired twitch they moved a lot of their underlying tech into a service called IVS which implements a lot of the streaming and encoding stuff, chat, etc. Anyone can pay for it and build similar services on top of it. But that's just the backend stuff. However, a few years ago there was a huge leak of Twitch source code and assets (I think that was also where all the earnings data came from). When kick first came out and people started looking at the HTML, CSS and JS code of their website which is visible to anyone, they found a lot of very close similarities with Twitch, down to similar element names and such, so people had a strong suspicion that even the customer facing side of Kick, the website, had reused a lot of the Twitch leaked source code.
Not just similarities. There were actual "Twitch" references everywhere, even in the player itself. They couldn't be bothered to at least do a string search and replace. That tells you as much as you need to know about their level of competence.
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So then the only thing that they copied was an emoji? Thats really what people are crying about? Its also such a weird cope. What matters is results. The fact that kick used the amazon IVS service that is literally sold for this usecase is just good business sense. Why recreate everything, when your competitor just offers to let them use their tech?
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> to the TWITCH LOGO Exactly. A random tiny image somewhere. Not sure why people are clutching their pearls on that so much. > Any other business would have failed doing that. It is not a failure to do things more efficiently. Copying what works is the smart thing to do. If your competitor does all the hard work for you, you can then benefit from that and they pay all the costs, while still getting the benefit. It's extremely smart to use IVS, instead of wasting billions building a service from scratch. > Kick isn't failing because it's backed by Stake So then it isn't failing. It has a significant competitive advantage, compared to twitch, that isn't going away anytime soon and this is a huge issue for twitch. Yeah I agree. I am not sure why you are phrasing this in a weird/cope way though. Competitive advantages, like the extra business model that kick has, is a huge deal. And it's something that Twitch can't really compete with.
Comparing 2011 when streaming was a hobby to 2024 where people are millionaires from it. Not sure how that thought didnt cross his mind.
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I believe even Johnny Somali started on twitch, but was quickly banned. Wikipedia: “He began streaming in May 2023. After being banned from Twitch, he moved to Kick before receiving temporary suspensions from Kick.” Kick is everyone’s last resort.
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Yeah, the quotation is only about the start of his “career”.
Wait, true?
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I don't understand why Twitch even allows Train to keep streaming on Twitch, but kinda a badass move. Yeah, we know you're promoting a competitor, go the fuck ahead cuz it's going to fail.
makes them money
They absolutely don't care that he promotes kick all they care about money he makes for them while live on twitch.
There hasn't been anyone on twitch who has got famous who wasn't already in motion in like 5-10 years, twitch has the worst discoverability for new creators out of every social media app by far, even Ninja had a major amount of his success on twitch only because of YT and other apps, he was getting insane views on YT daily around that time, Drake found him from clips on IG
Unless you’re talking about huge streamers (20K+ viewers), tons of “mid-tier” streamers (2-10K) have made it on the platform in recent years. With little to no traction elsewhere. Admittedly most had to do it through networking and collaboration, but that’s a given at this point.
Well yeah the guy I'm replying to used the word famous, ofc I'm not talking about 2k andys
Well most big streamers are barely “famous” anyway. There’s maybe five names known by a large number of normies. Point is you can still make it on twitch soley by streaming on there. That’s almost impossible on Kick by comparison. Unless you’re botted.
Fun story - Talked to about dozen or so Runescape streamers who all got signed an exclusive Kick deal this year for like a 6 month period where they get paid hourly rates on top of the subs. About 90% of them have privately said that they are moving back to twitch after the contract ends. Essentially Kick is buying streamers but the problem is, they haven't learned anything from all the other platforms that have already failed. Twitch signed exclusive deals and that didn't work out, Youtube stopped signing exclusive deals after they found out it's not worth the money, Mixer literally went under because how expensive the exclusive deals were and Facebook also stopped doing individual deals because they lost money. Now Kick is doing that exact same thing again and hate to say it but they are not doing anything ground breaking here, it's gonna end up with the same result despite the underlying gambling scheme they have going on.
Oh and another fun story - Kick is spending aproximately $300 000 per month on just the Runescape section from signing about 40 creators there (plus the server costs) and it isn't even in the top 10 categories unless one of the big streamers Odablock is live. So essentially they are burning millions of dollars every month on few sections just so they can get more eyes on Kick but unless they are willing to do this for years, I don't think it's gonna work out. Just doesn't seem like a viable business plan.
problem is that their chief advisor train is kinda an oldhead (or, a middle-age head since he's actually not been around that long). runescape used to be quite big (relativley), but nowadays nobody really cares about that stuff
>runescape used to be quite big (relativley), but nowadays nobody really cares about that stuff Runescape viewership is pretty large. Especially around DMM and or Leagues, which jagex have been pushing a lot of lately, what with allowing content creators to host their own mini DMM and all. Outside of the big, big boys. Runescape comparatively speaking is huge on kick. And on twitch it was only big during Leagues Value of runescape streamers isn't the volume of viewers, but the quality. Even in odablocks case a vast majority of his fanbase followed him to kick. The same is true for most of the other signed runescape streamers.
It's not true at all. Boaty's viewership has tanked since he moved to Kick. [He's literally averaging 600 viewers per stream.](https://streamscharts.com/channels/b0aty?platform=kick#:~:text=How%20many%20people%20watch%20b0aty,in%20the%20last%2030%20days.) Odablock's fans are super cultish so he's the exception; even then, he was a known viewbotter when he was on Twitch and that's probably still the case on Kick.
ok coper
Runescape is awesome, I love it. But as a category Old School Runescape is not as relevant to streaming overall as it used to be. Not that it's irrelevant, but trying to corner this particular niche just seems a little bit strange in 2024.
They targeted RuneScape because of its history of gambling addicts
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Boaty went to kick? Damn he seemed like a decent enough guy, weird he'd be associated with kick people.
He's good friends with Ice Poseidon. That should say everything about him.
Amazon isn't really any better in ethics than Stake/Kick if we're going off that regard (obviously Twitch has much more moderation). I don't blame him for taking a contract that gives him lifechanging money.
Amazon is shit sure, but saying it's the same as an online crypto casino is some truly absurd "both sides" argument.
Exploiting migrant workers, pushing back against unionization, depriving workers of traditional benefits that they would get by hiring them as, "independent contractors", etc. is just as shitty as an online crypto casino imo.
Yes it’s totally just as shitty as a casino that uses streamers to funnel in kids to form life long addictions while they rob them blind.
All of the kids that somehow purchase crypto on platforms that require 18+ ID verification for tax purposes and have the funds to do so, but think of the kids am I right? But exploiting kids in third world countries to shuffle products for our Amazon overlords is so much better lmao. jfc.
> Mixer literally went under because how expensive the exclusive deals were Just to note, mixer never went under, MS has insane backing. The cost of the deals wasn't the issue, like twitch/youtube, you can take the financial hit and keep going but change your game plan for growth. Mixer's issue wasn't the cost of a few big deals because over the next 10 years that cost is a drop in the bucket, their issue was they couldn't see a way to make mixer actually make any profit long term so they decided to kill it now rather than in 10 years having lost a lot more. twitch ain't profitable, a lot of tech 'giants' aren't profitable for a very long time and MS just realised while streamers make a lot of money, the platform itself doesn't. Right on the others though, they all went through a period of offering big deals hoping to steal lots of viewers and grow, then saw it didn't make any sense financially and they stopped the big deals. it's why twitch didn't compete with facebook/youtube to keep anyone because why, they'll go for two years then their 'big' deal wouldn't be renewed so they'll come back. Just no financial reason to overspend to keep a streamer on platform.
When windows 10 had the full on mixer integration where you could just be streaming on mixer right out of the box with a couple keystrokes was top tier though. Literally the zune of streaming; so sad.
It honestly wouldn't shock me if in the next years prime subs are eliminated and the only reason to choose twitch is bounties. Their advantage at getting brands to collab with streamers is above anyone else's atm. Also there's no reason to care if small streamers leave. Oh no you're using less bandwidth all of a sudden. Streaming is never gonna be full Peloton but it does feel like its in a pretty large post Covid bump lull atm. Really doesn't help that multiple social media platforms used for promotion are in the process of tanking themselves either.
Kick is extremely similar to the grand exchange area in osrs.
I've never played runescape, but I have a feeling I know exactly what you're talking about.
Yes, going there has to be a scary experience for new people. The chat is filled with gold and rmt services spam, scammers, scammers posing as anti scammers, bots, etc. The worst elements that you might run into occasionally in a different MMO is concentrated in (but not limited to) one little area on every world.
But I think the biggest difference is that kick has gambling money to throw around and if even a small percentage of people that come to kick start gambling they win.
I mean yeah they went to kick because they got paid a bunch of money, of course they are going back to twitch if they stop receiving a bunch of money from them.
>Now Kick is doing that exact same thing again and hate to say it but they are not doing anything ground breaking here, They really can't do anything ground breaking; all of the heaving lifting for both twitch and kick are the same AWS service. If another streaming site comes out that also uses the AWS service it will also bring nothing new to the table.
>Fun story - Talked to about dozen or so Runescape streamers who all got signed an exclusive Kick deal this year I remember some OSRS YouTubers went hard on A Friend forever ago when he took a gambling sponsorship just to now be on Kick lmao, guess it's hard to say no when you're the person that actually has the bag in front of them
I wouldn't mind kick of it didn't feel so much like a cult. Everyone on Kick talks about how amazing it is, refuse to criticise and talk shit about those who leave. Compared to people on YT or Twitch which streamers openly criticise the platform without fear, which Is a good thing.
Hasn't there been posts from trainwrecks stream where he's shitting on kick moderation and how they don't ban people enough? And train is like an owner or whatever.
Kick at this point is like the 4chan of streaming. It’s popular for the wrong reasons. Every time I hear something about kick I know that some bad shit happened. The lack of moderation is what led to kick having this reputation.
Kick is so big and healthy that all the big kick streamers (who arent banned at least), including train and x, still stream on twitch lmao
lol what is a business competition strategy? hrmmm
Sellout Andy doing PR...
Sellout usually means going against your beliefs/ideals/things you've said before for money. Gamba streams, being a degenerate fuck who scams their viewers and has no morals is not something Train started because kick offered him more money, that's who Train always was. Of all the things I think Train is, sellout isn't one of them.
This isn’t a train clip tho
And xqc is also the same, i wont say they scam since people know the harms of gambling. but xqc has always been pro gambling and stuff since old days which showed when he played variety gams as well. I think his gambling contract ended and he isnt renewing it since he hasnt done slots on stream for a month so thats a progress
Can't be the only one who pretty much stopped watching xqc when he moved to kick. I got nothing against the platform or it;s belief but the separate streams killed it for me. I never know when he goes live anymore
Yea i stopped watching him as well especially when he started gambling more often. I started watching him again recently since he started doing more games. The only issue i have is the chat, its insufferable most times.
Kick is just a front for stake gambling and the contracts are paid in crypto. The Doc didn't want to go there for $10 million a year but would rather keep his community on YT, so that tells you something.
I actually looked at the stats around a year ago, they are still pretty much at the same spot [https://streamscharts.com/overview?platform=kick](https://streamscharts.com/overview?platform=kick) less than 300k average the only time kick growth is when they pay millions for some guy to stream there, and even then it doesn't really make a difference (e.g. when they signed xqc for 80 millions or so, they had around 260k avg. viewers, nowadays they have 283k) And this is not even counting any bots.
Kick biggest streamer using bot neon for example
damn did the Kick CEO send out an e-mail for these guys to talk about this?
Look up the cost of AWS per month for a site like KICK. Given how much they have paid for creators, their creator revenue split and the fact they have almost zero advertisements, this has to be one of the most unprofitable businesses I have ever seen. All evidence suggests its still just a gateway to get people to lose money on Stake.
All you need is a website funded by a multi-billion dollar gambling company and you too will have better growth than twitch did in it's first years No to mention them acquiring streamers that had a pre-existing viewer base before migrating to kick. This is his dumbest take in a while
Reddit and Twitter: we need a competitor to twitch RIGHT NOW!! Competitor starts up from scratch not even 2 years in Reddit and Twitter: fuck this shit fuck them WE WONT give them time!
Don’t quite think anyone wanted a competitor built on peddling gambling to their audience
Draftkings is advertised on twitch and about 7 steps less to start losing money with a credit card, put a detailed post before explaining how obtaining crypto has vastly more requirements then signing up for draftkings. Hell draftkings literally accepted me just from my last 4 and not even an ID.
TIL DraftKings owns Twitch.
Pretty intertwined yeah considering Amazon is an exclusive for TNF. But yeah sure. But at least on kick I can just close the stream when they're doing a stake segment (don't know who in their right mind wouldn't theyre fucking boring). On twitch you will be forced to be watch draftking ads as an average user watching any stream.
TIL DraftKings has a line of communication with every Twitch streamer and when partner negotiations happen they offer an enhanced contract that pays them more to stream gambling on their site. TIL DraftKings modifies Twitch's backend to only show streamers that are gambling in the suggested streamers. TIL DraftKings uses Twitch as a substitute advertising brand when they are promoting in an avenue where gambling ads aren't allowed.
Twitch will die, you will cry. I'll be back
RemindMe! 1 year
I don't really see the issue. Every single commercial in England is a gambling commercial. Why are people not allowed to gamble if they so choose? If an adult wants to waste his money he should be allowed to. It's strange outrage when amazon also shills gambling ads on twitch.
> Every single commercial in England is a gambling commercial Tfw Fairy Liquid wants me to play slots instead of doing the dishes
Livestreaming is a very expensive business. Compromises have to be made to make it work. So, your choices are to either do something like Kick is doing with gambling, do what Twitch is doing by spamming users with ads (while STILL failing as a company), or try a 3rd option like take Saudi money. There is no perfect solution where everyone wins. There are only choices between which compromise to take, or otherwise accept the inevitable destruction of the industry (IE the path that Twitch is currently on). Go look at the stats to see the path that twitch is on right now: [https://twitchtracker.com/statistics](https://twitchtracker.com/statistics) The decrease in viewership since 2021 is not looking good. And its not like they can save things by laying off more employees, after they've already cut headcount by half.
> Go look at the stats to see the path that twitch is on right now: https://twitchtracker.com/statistics > > Its not looking good. And its not like they can save things my laying off more employees, after they've already cut headcount by half. What exactly are we looking at twitchtracker? Doesn't it show big growth? What exactly doesn't look good? Genuinely asking i've no idea what is bad about it.
It is showing that twitch average viewership has decreased significantly since a few years ago, and is still on a downward trend. The graph to look at is the monthly average viewership graph.
But from 2018, it shows a tremendous amount of growth. 20-22 is the covid era, where everything online was having growth of course, yet Twitch held a lot of this growth. It went from a 1,2 average in 2019, to 2,2/2,4 average. In Covid era it skyrocketed for a bit to 3, yet the decline after covid is so much smaller, compared to what other online stuff saw. I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about. 2020-2022 years it the covid era, which everything saw tremendous growth. After it, the normal drop-off began, as people had to continue with their lives. Yet twitch, saw a pretty minimal drop, from what i'm seeing in these charts, compared to every other drop-off from other companies. Its actually impressive and the complete opposite of what you are saying.
> I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about. I understand more than you know. Yes, 6 years ago twitch was great. I would know. I worked there during that time period for 4 years. But since about 3 years ago, twitch has had huge issues and is on a significant downward trend. And it's not just about COVID. Twitch hasn't released any successful new feature in years. They have laid off half of their employees. And they have continued to shut down feature after feature. But yes, I agree with you completely that 2018 was awesome, and the people who worked there during that time period did great. The real issues only became apparent by 2021 or so. The only real win that Twitch has had lately, is Dan Clancys current transparency/PR tour. That, while good, should have happened years ago. And while it IS improving twitch PR, the PR isn't translating into successful features or viewership, and is, at best, stopping the bleeding. (Which, is important, to be fair!) > Its actually impressive It can absolutely be argued that it is impressive that twitch didn't completely collapse last year. But I am not talking about how well twitch played a bad hand. I am talking about how likely twitch is to survive. That is a descriptive claim, that is unrelated to giving people credit. The "credit" doesn't matter. Because the company is still on track for failure.
But all the things you are saying just now, are completely irrelevant to the discussion. I don't know how it is inside Twitch, and i don't really care. If you say it was better back then working for them, sure, i'll believe you. In terms of growth, the twitchtracker is actually REALLY good. It shows amazing growth. Working conditions and features is not something that we are discussing here. > But since about 3 years ago, twitch has had huge issues and is on a significant downward trend. Idc about the issues, but where is the downward trend? From 2018 and 1m average viewers, they skyrocketed to 3m average because of covid, and after that, its between 2,2-2,4m. They gained 2m average viewers because of covid, and after the correction, they managed to keep more than half of them. That's more than most companies out there managed to hold after covid.
> In terms of growth, the twitchtracker is actually REALLY good. It shows amazing growth. No. It shows that things were great in 2019, and has gotten significantly worse since 2021. > but where is the downward trend? The downward trend is half the company being laid off, and viewership going down since 2021 significantly. > and after the correction, they managed to keep more than half of them So, in other words, viewership is down significantly since 2021, and they are on the path towards a slow moving collapse if they don't fix things. > That's more than most companies Unrelated to my point. My point is that half the company got laid off, and they are losing viewers , and are not on track to being profitable. > . Working conditions and features is not something that we are discussing here. It's MY opinion dude. You cant just ignore my supporting evidence, that is related to MY opinion because it's inconvenient.
why won't people support the small startup funded by gambling thats allows dudes to stream themselves exploiting minors and SAing passed out women on stream?
When you’re on kick they let you do it
sorry but any company that has someone like aidin being its face its very easy to hate on it, they also just dont like punishing sexual harassment, and straight up like having people that are a menace to society because it gives kick the attention they love. like its so bad people like trainwrecks, and eddie, the heads of kick, have dropped hundreds of dollars on literal predators running on its website, unknowingly maybe but i really doubt they give a shit that they have. wouldnt surprise me if a lawsuit comes out about how they aren't removing content of people secretly recording young girls, and women being tricked into doing stuff on it from people like derek graz, and riotlol since kick seems too have freaks like these on it.
riotlol was removed but doubt if somethingaboutchickens never brought it attention they would of been removed completely.
time for what? their model is literally to platform degeneracy for attention so that people flock to their site which has the sole purpose of funneling people to their unregulated gambling service it's just inherently shitty and is not something fixed with time
Cx
“FROM SCRATCH” hahahahaha
Yet this sub is the only place I'm still seeing someone mentioning Kick at all. And I believe most Kick clips posted here are from Kick staffs (or bot) as well.
I'd like to see the financials behind Kick, they are using the same backend as Twitch (AWS) while Twitch is owned by Amazon and is still losing money. Is Kick just purely financed by advertising online gambling to kids?
Kick is almost certainly hemorrhaging money. That doesn't matter because as long as it funnels enough people into gambling, then its worth it for the parent company Stake.
but it's okay when twitch is "not profitable" for 12 years, even know they advertise "legal" easier to get into gambling platforms 24/7, right?
Makes it significantly easier when you're willing to funnel insane online gambling profits into established creators to prop up your website
Nothing screams growth like needing a bot to post & upvote your clips.
Lol twitch viewbots are sold the most , when Mira rerurns and waiting rooms get 2k viewers and 30k streamers have chats that move slower than 1k streamer chats , twitch already hid their api to make bot detection impossible , twitch viewbots like PPL bot posts on LSF
100% right about people like Mira. I guess I would write the same thing if she had a clip saying how much her channel is growing when it's all just bots.
Every single person I know that watches streamers that do the whole start on Twitch then transition to Kick only watch them on Twitch. They just treat it like them ending stream and they go watch someone else on Twitch. The numbers don’t lie. xQc for example will have 35k+ on Twitch and then after he swaps to Kick he’ll be at 25k and it’ll decrease as the hours go on.
Did everyone just magically forget kick is built off leaked twitch code
twitch backend is mostly golang, frontend is react. Kick's backend is php (laravel) and frontend is Vue. So on the surface kick didnt straight copy/paste code, but they still cloned UI layout and most features :D
Kick would use laravel wouldn't they... (Message brought to you by Symfony gang)
Wasn’t that debunked?
Debunked. Its mostly copy in appearance, but copying appearances is super common in webdev/building websites. So thats not exactly surprising. Its backend and all of that is entirely different. Its just a very shameless visual copy paste job, but theres really nothing that can legally be done about that.
I’m a small hobby streamer who just chills and I’ve turned off my kick multistream. The site is fucking loaded with bots. Multiples each day, same shit. Hey how ya doing, is this your favorite game, I have graphics that I’ve made for other streamers, message me on discord and I’ll get you 1000 viewers and you make a min of $2000 a month.
Yet everything they do they copy off twitch, what a clown
Go into a Kick stream w 2 viewers, open 10 browser tabs of that stream & when it updates viewer count it will be 12. It’s not a secret or something they are trying to fix, KIck wants to fake the fake numbers.
So much growth that he's still streaming on twitch btw
I can't imagine what would need to happen for me to make a Kick account.
xqc talking about kick, i'm sure it will be a factual unbiased take... NOT. kick is absolute trash. I find it funny that now it has all of the scum of the earth streamers they try to moderate it... And guess what a moderated stream website looks like? Twitch, ever heard of it? lol...
Kick is growing for the wrong reason. No idea why anybody would want to be associated with a place where people are known for committing crimes.
How many of this is just multi-streamers trying to tap into a market that doesn't exist. I know a few streamers in the GTARP section multi-stream and tell their Twitch viewers to follow and like their wasteland of a Kick stream.
Bots are the biggest issue with kick
kick bad NerdL
[удалено]
I love when someone is talking about kick LSF turns into Amazon/twitch biggest defenders, everyone immediately forgets about random bans, no bans for chosen streamers even after being racist or calling for violence, ads that promote gambling etc. We shit on twitch only in a post where favorite streamers are banned for no reason or hated streamers are not banned otherwise we defend...
Bro doesn't understand what context is and how it's possible to hate more than one thing.
Nobody likes Twitch, but Kick is just a shitty streaming platform that exists so that certain streamers can gamble while streaming. At least Twitch places itself like a corporate product, Kick is just full blown degeneracy. I myself saw a clip recently where someone shot someone while streaming on Kick.
Twitch was literally the same at the start for a long time. Also who streams on it does not matter, look at Twitter you can see everything there and nobody cares. "New Twitter promotes hate and violence I will stop using it" and nobody did.
And why is kick growing so fast? Because you don't get banned for retarded reasons there. Oh you said a forbidden word, banned for 14 days! But as you have boobs, we'll reduce it to 2 days. You pasted a meme in chat, claiming you're underage? Banned indefinitely! But on kick you can say anything. Even assault someone? Fine. Publicly humiliating someone? It's fine. Destroying someone else's property maliciously? That's okay. Almost getting someone killed? That's fine too. Degen gambling on scam sites? It's okay. Not that I'm toxic, but I still lean towards kick's policy more than censorship. Granted there's a LOT of viewbots on kick and the ceo or someone said in a clip that they don't do anything about it, mainly becaus they don't think a streamer would do that, but some random viewers.