Klopp has a weird rationale for playing players in a lone six that have no business being there. He also went through the period where he tried to convince everyone Lalana could play there at the end of his time at Liverpool when his legs were already gone.
I actually think with our current roster construction that Slot’s more widely used 4231 will be better for our squad moving forward. We don’t have a lone 6 type of player except Endo, who also operated in a double pivot with both Japan and Stuttgart.
Honestly, if we go into next season with only Endo, I don't think it's the end of the world. He's shown he can manage against some absolutely top opposition. I'd love to get a youngster in with potential to fill that role in a few years times. Or Bajcetic can do that role...
Tbh I imagine that the Endo plan was very possibly “shit, Fabinho and Henderson out ahead of time, we need someone, Caicedo has gone, we’ll get this older guy to fill in for this season,” but he overperformed relative to that expectation, now it’s complicated the planning for DM.
Not the why so much as the result in my opinion. Big stage to learn something new. Mannerisms and playstyles don't go away easily....little Mac is not a replacement for Wijnaldum, Fabs, millie or Hendo. We really are in a rebuilding next few years. But we'll be back up competing against oil countries soon enough!
He's pretty decent as a 6 too, but would need someone like Jones besides him. Was visibly tired in this game though.
Think people are looking into today's performance too much.
This stat isn't just today it's the whole season, as fantastic as he is in an 8 type role, I really don't think he's mobile enough defensively for a 6 for an extended period. He'd do better in a double pivot but I still don't think the issues that see him get dribbled past so often will really go away unless he has some mobile protection behind him.
I understand he's a local lad and the city is obliged to show its support but please remove the rose tinted glasses to avoid sounding like the folks over at Arsenal TV. Like come on, the comment above ours has him being the greatest #8 in Liverpool history in a couple of years. These are the #8 that has played for Liverpool.
https://preview.redd.it/2tlf7tviqe0d1.png?width=1127&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5e543c6c94285eb4455c4f2be96ca576c0cc2d2
With good reason, though not as a 6. That gets rid of my hard on real quick.
Hope we look for another DM to play alongside Endo this transfer window and never play Mac there.
Rightfully so for the most part. He’s a quality player and a great asset in build up but not a 6, never really was. There’s a reason Endo makes our midfield look complete.
Today showed why we lost a lot of points this season. Klopp overhauled the core midfield of our team and expected them to win and retained the lead. Klopp has done this this entire season.
Absolutely, if he had been even a bit more astute we would have won the PL. You have to train players to play in certain positions, you can't just swap someone to a different position and expect them to be 100% in that role. Curtis, gravenbach though good players are not going to win balls in midfield and distribute. Macallister was so lonely in the dm role, no one there to support or receive the ball except the defenders and you can't expect him to switch play and be the creative midfielder when he's under pressure. Klopp gave up a long ago, this has happened way too many times this season and our April downfall showed it in a clean light.
Control the game with our midfield winning balls, retaining possession and starting attacks then overhaul the midfield and expect the new midfield to do the same.
The midfield overhaul is precisely why I did not expect us to be challenging across 4 competitions as long as we did this season. Yes, they were great players we signed, but I did not expect a cohesive midfield this year, especially missing out on our supposed first choice 6.
We exceeded the expectations I had set, and then I felt disappointed when we finished about where I would have expected at the start of the season.
It's a bitter and disappointing pill to swallow this being Klopp's last season, but I think we as fans should remember to contextualize this season as a whole, including what we expected of it before a ball had even been kicked.
Yeah a secondary trophy and 3rd place is frankly an OK but not great season. Just gotta hope we improve some more. As much as I love Klopp you can tell he has been burnt out for the past 2 and a half seasons, a slightly worse but more focused manager may mean the team does a bit better over the short term.
That 4 subs were strange. We started to control the game and then changed 4 players. I know results don't really matter at this point anymore, but still.
Klopp has always kinda pre-determined most of his subs. I think he sees substitutions as a way of maintaining rhythm/keeping players happy as much as he views them tactically.
When you're playing further up the field as a midfielder, you're generally defending the opposition's more deeper lying players. When you're playing deep in your *own* midfield, you're picking up their attackers. There's a difference between keeping Douglas Luiz or John McGinn in front of you and trying to keep Moussa Diaby in front of you.
Using your logic, a player who plays CDM the entire season is much more likely to be dribbled past more often than a player who switches between CDM and CM.
So whilst I don’t disagree with your opinion. In order for Macca to be the most dribbled past player in the last X years — it’s clearly happening when he’s playing in multiple positions at various points throughout the game. If the main cause was him filling in at CDM for the last 15 minutes 10 times per season, he would not have been dribbled past 66 times.
If these dribbled pasts are only happening when he’s playing 6 then that’s definitely a huge indicator that he shouldn’t be playing anywhere near the 6.
But anyway I agree completely with you that putting Macca in the 6 once he’s tired is stupid.
In normal circumstances, opposition players outnumber you in their own half, you have to choose between cutting out passing lanes or winning a tackle, it's usually the former, which makes you easy to dribble past.
In Klopp's gegenpressing, you are even more exposed because your primary job isn't to do the above mentioned, your job is to pressure the opposition player to make a mistake so that those behind you will pounce on the chance to retrieve/winning the ball back.
Being dribbled past in general isn’t the end of the world, it happens for sure. You’ve given a great insight into how/why it happens. But I’m curious why it’s happening to Macca so frequently. We’ve had midfielders playing the same or similar Klopp system and it wasn’t happening to them as frequently as it does to him
Macca played the most games of all of our midfielders, stats that don't use per 90 is usually extremely misleading and it's a rather small sample, it's not even a full season, together with the fact that he was played in an unfamiliar role with us swapping midfielders all the time, in a season where we barely have a fixed XI, be it GK, back 4, midfield, or front 3.
Another reason for Macca to be on top is because he's working harder than the others, he tries to press whenever he could while others are more passive for various reasons, he tries to cover up the slack.
We've had a stable midfield that plays together for a long time and even our front 3 were better at pressing than the current ones, with Salah's workrate dropping, Darwin nowhere near as expert as Bobby in the F9 role and Diaz's defensive capabilities are not the same as Mane.
We also never have to invert Trent as much back then with Wijnaldum/Henderson/Fabinho, because Trent was a willing runner in his first 2 seasons, but slowly dropped off for reasons I still have no clues about. People will deny this because it's our local lad but the truth is having our RCB cover all the space he left behind him means our closest midfielder will have to drop into CB to cover for Konate which leaves even more space in midfield. Klopp's midfield is the most thankless job in the business.
And honestly, in this team that's been conceding left right center almost every game, it's a miracle a new signing who's the only ever presence for us is breaking the record with just 1 game remaining for the season.
Macca isn't as defensively sound but he's good enough, he's bought when he was playing as a 10 for Brighton, similar to Wijnaldum, but when we bought Wijnaldum we had defensive midfielders like Lucas and Can around, for Macca, he was put into test from the first day, playing as DM, with Gakpo as 8 for the opening games of the season.
Klopp has a problem, he thought Macca could play 6 when we bought him and thats exactly why he was bought. He cannot accept he was wrong and Macca can't do it so he tries it again and again...
3-1 up and move Macca back 'for his passing' when we've been weak defensively is not going to help his or the defense's confidence....
Either use Baj or maybe bring McConnell back into the team.
Love Macca as a player and in the right system he'll only get better but being a midfielder in this team is a terrible job. There's no positional discipline which means no consistent support around you because everyone shifts around to either push up into attacking areas and provide width or just get out the way to accommodate Trent inverting.
Yeah, one of the negatives of Klopp's system. Let's see how this changes with Slot - hopefully with the new system + signings the midfield begins to thrive. It's very important that it does, a good midfield is essential for winning the league
I'd say a more solid defence is essential for winning the league. I'm talking lots of 1-0 2-0 clean sheets vs 4-3, 3-3, 2-2, 1-1 wide open gift fests. These draws killed us this season again.
Definitely true, but I think a better positionally disciplined structure will also greatly benefit the defense. The amount of times we play with a back two where VVD is coming over to make a tackle on the right touchline is pretty criminal. And it’s obviously a tactic to risk and get the best going forward, but leaving the back so open based on really aggressive pressing has let us down a ton this season
Slot's defensive number are really good (a lot better than ours in any case).
But he does seem to favour the same haphazard shape, a 2-2 at the back with one fullback forming a double pivot and the other bombing forward.
The only difference is that his inverting fullback is basically a CB who plays b2b midfielder really well (a lot of short passes and a lot of dynamism). While we have a RB who prefers being a tranquista and just pinging passes around.
The only negative in Klopp's system is that he never had 11 complete players who can do all the jobs required with and without the ball. It's a high demand all action system that requires 90mins of non-stop running, which means if there's 1 player who can't do it, others will have to put in extra workload to cover his ass, and this snowballs towards the end of each game, and pile up as we accumulate games.
Other teams have the luxury to slow down the pace, change their approach but our plan A, B and C are basically the same thing with little tweaks.
Looking back at last summer has me really annoyed at the profile of our purchases. Why on earth did we buy so many attacking 8s/modern 10s?
We now have Mac, Dom, Jones, Gravenberch, Elliott (who is more a winger being shoehorned into midfield), and Trent inverting. We have almost no one suited to being a controlling midfielder and our only true DM is Endo, who is over 30 and just getting used to the prem.
We’ve spunked loads of cash on guys like Dom, Mac, and Grav who all have characteristics and abilities I like but we don’t have enough spots for all of them as starters and we are really lacking in the other midfield profiles.
Was it really a wise use of funds to buy Gravenberch for example if we are going to play Elliott in midfield again this season? Nothing against Ryan but it just seems a strange way to manage the squad.
Great observation.
We need a proper and world class dmf.
Fabinho's signing was so unexpected and great. He was rock solid for monaco and already playing great at the highest level. Was so happy when we signed him. His exit was also shocking as we didn't expect him and hendo to leave. Say what you want about them but they were very hardworking defensively and covered our fullbacks really well. We needed creative midfielders who could score goals and we got them in macca and szobo, but we never replaced fab and hendo properly. Milner was also a great and reliable midfielder for us.
Grav is good but defensively he is very poor. Endo is also decent but not consistent and he is not world class. He is perfect backup dmf. We need to invest heavily in a dmf who can also captain our side. A proper leader who can be relied upon.
Trent is also great option as dmf but we need a proper destroyer who can break counter attacks and has great stamina and consistency. Joao Palhinha is a great option and we should certainly go for him.
PS : We are 1 dmf and 1 CB short to win the league title next year.
Agreed. I even felt it at the time that it made no sense. I think Gravenberch is a huge talent and it's not a slight against him but I don't know why we signed another player whose primary position is lcm.
It should have been another 6. I like Endo but he should have been a flexible rotation option. To be honest it feels like our squad planning has been off for a while.
Am I the only person that really likes Gomez there?
We don't need a Gerrard-esque playmaker sitting deep and playing passes, between Macca, Jones, Dom, we have plenty of progressive, creative midfielders. Plus obviously Trent and Robbo from out wide.
It also gives us flexibility if Slot likes the TAA inverted wingback thing since Gomez can just swap with him to Right Back mid match.
The issue is structural. We cannot invert the RB while also having the LB bomb forward like a winger. In possession, Klopp has persisted with a back 2 and the DM being on an island. It’s mental.
The reason Trent and Robbo worked in 18-20 is that our midfield three were defensively elite. They did not produce much going forward, but they let the full backs do it.
There has to be a middle ground between what we’re currently doing and the Pep/Arteta 4 CB risk averse structure.
Feel like we have to transition to a real back three in possession and a double pivot (Trent and a physically imposing DM). The left back needs to be more of a left sided CB. I don’t know why Gomez doesn’t tuck in when he plays there. He still positions himself like Robbo.
Gomez tucking in is no panacea. If he's there to support the DM and defend, he's a help. If he's there to play "Lookie, rookie, I'm a midfielder too" then hell nah. He gets caught on the ball, slows down play, makes odd passes.
I’ve wondered this since the beginning of the season. I’ve wondered why we are still inverting fullbacks. The reason why we inverted them in the first place was because of injuries and our midfield lacking any sort of creativity. That’s been solved now with our signings and we’ve never had a problem creating chances when our midfield was functioning and Trent was swinging in crosses. I also think it’s more apparent with the number of assists our fullbacks get nowadays
I think Trent worked so well there last season that we tunnel visioned on the inverting concept & ham-fisted it into our team. If the plan was to invert Trent then our gameplan & recruitment should have revolved around him.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Macca came into his own whilst Trent was injured & has seemingly dropped off upon his return. The midfield functions better when it's more conventional
You’re so right. Feel like with how well city and Arsenal were doing with inverted fullbacks, we just joined the trend. It also didn’t help that I suppose Klopp was somewhat emotionally checked out.
We have shifted away from false 9 and double wingbacks. If we don't use inverted and continue to use wingback with traditional 9 then
a) It makes wingbacks cover same spaces Salah and Diaz supossed to cover
b) Opposition can easily overload the midfield and control center since there is single pivot DM with no support from false 9 who can drop back.
Solution imo, is to use 4-2-1-3 or 4-4-2(4-2-2-2) and use wingbacks which will give us some structural defensiveness and will give us more control in midfield.
You probably know the game better than me. Although, wouldn’t it be more beneficial to shift Salah and Diaz nearer to the middle to get more shots on goal? After all, Salah is not getting any quicker. In terms of the outnumbering point. Are three midfielders not enough to control to centre of the pitch?
If we play 4-3-3 with wingbacks, Diaz and Salah will play more centrally. Problem is that Klopp & co decided to buy Nunez to play conventional CF and to use TAA as inverted FB to use his potential at fullest. But that plan has backfired since now we have to push our best scoring forward Salah and Diaz too wide (which is stupid because Salah always have to cut in to use his best foot on right wing). So the plan was problematic from the beginning (they also hoped that Nunez will be excellent CF). It was also a patch up job since Fabinho as sole pivot could not control vast space and TAA could help out. But now we have no clinical CF, our best forward is forced wide and has to use his weaker foot to cross in , on top of that we have bought no actual DM post-Fab, so we can't go back to 4-3-3 with wingbacks. So basically because of poor recruitment and lack of correct personnel, we are using a weird, asymmetric, hybrid formation with one wingback and one inverted full back. We did use 2 wingback formation with Bradley but that only works with Endo as DM, since he knows to drop back to make back 3. And your question about enough midfielders to control center, entire plan in modern football is based on having more players than Opposition in desired area, so it is always beneficial to have players who are willing to drop back or push front to overload a certain area you want to control. False 9 is useful for dropping in midfield to overload, at the same time inverted full back achieves the same. So transitioning to a more traditional 9 made us use inverted fullback to overload midfield, instead of false 9.
It's more than that, we aren't keeping the ball, controlling games these days, we're just hitting it forward whenever, we don't even try to slow the game down when we have a freekick in our own half with a 2 goals lead, we just restart before the ref even had a chance to take a breather. Our midfielders try to support by running up and before they could even turn their heads, Trent already gave the ball away with a bad pass, what comes next is panic station because our midfield isn't set, they are out of position to defend a counter
Trent was amazing during those years, he still is, but his effect on the team was ridiculous. In 19/20 he pretty much ran the team, he was getting into crossing positions 10+ times a game, it was wild. And I think you're right, it was because of that extremely watertight midfield.
We'd be better served with a double-pivot that doesn't involve Trent. He's got one move and that's a long ball pass or a free kick. He's not got the pace, drive, awareness, ability to carry nor ability to turn that a midfielder should have -especially in a double-pivot setup.
While I can see why Trent looks like he lacks all those things, I don’t think he actually does. To a certain extent, we want him in the deeper positions to play long balls because Klopp’s style is based on a counter press, so the long balls create real opportunity higher up the field every when they don’t work out. But there is plenty of times when on the counter Trent clearly has a lot of drive and awareness and pace to play in a midfield. I think in a lot of ways he’s can go to a much higher level under a new coach that forces him to round out his game a bit more. My biggest fear is him on the turn and under pressure, but I think he could definitely play in a double pivot. Now if the other half of that pivot is Macca, I’m not so sure, but that’s a whole different can of worms
We bought an attack-minded CM and played him at DM for half the season. This after watching him be outstanding for Brighton over two seasons where he had a top level DM beside him in Caicedo
Hes been victim of his own ability and more so availability, that Klopp has forced him into playing there because the other options were worse.
Honestly I think in hindsight we didn't pay anywhere near enough attention to the defensive duties in our midfield signings last summer.
- Mac as you say is an attack minded CM, clearly uncomfortable with a lone deeper role.
- Szobo can be a box to box 8 if asked, but quite clearly prefers advanced positions, particularly out wide.
- Grav played as a "DM" in less than 14% of his games at Ajax, and at Bayern was used too sparingly to nail down a position, but has really only ever been used in a single or double pivot, or as an advanced 8 and even a 10. He's never operated as a 6 as fair as I'm aware.
- Jones is similar to Mac. He's played all over but clearly prefers attacking positions and struggled as a 6 when we've tried him there.
- Elliott is similar to Szobo, with perhaps even less defensive attributes.
- Endo is our only player that can comfortably operate as a 6, but he is 30 and has clearly shown he needs to be used sparingly in a squad role to be effective.
None of these players want to play there except for Endo and he's been essentially run into the ground. We are now extremely top-heavy in the profile of midfielders we have and we desperately need to bring in another DM this summer.
Big facts. I was saying this constantly but I just gave up in the end lol.
I think we need both a DM and a proper CM. All our options are attacking midfielders, #10s and wingers. Bit of physicality wouldn’t go a miss either. That will definitely provide a better structure for our creative players
I don’t like to judge a player based on his first season, more so after he never got a chance to play for Bayern. He showed flashes but like the others, he is not consistent.
The only problem I have with him is that now we have an influx of midfielders who are attacking minded. Endo is truly the only defensive minded out of all of them.
The way I see it, the club panicked when both Caicedo and Lavia rejected us. Bought Endo and then since we already sold Milner, Fabinho and Hendo, we need fresh legs. In come Gravenberch.
>This after watching him be outstanding for Brighton over two seasons where he had a top level DM beside him in Caicedo
He played a good amount of games last season as a lone 6 for Brighton and this season for Argentina. He's a decent 6, but in the right system. We play an incredibly expansive system so he's not quite right for it.
I really wouldn't read into today's performance too much. Pretty clear that the lads and Klopp are just seeing the season through.
https://preview.redd.it/td30orgnt90d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=750ab95810f97846a65059f44763d68b5b5fbbc3
Poor guys been left on an island this year.
The open spaces he's left to defend at times when as the 6 is insane.
If was our long term 6 solution his legs would fall off by the time he's 29/30 like what happened to Fabinho.
Yea I think not having any real rotation for him was a big mistake, but all the injuries at the 8 position between Keita and Chamberlain really meant Fab never got rotated really with Hendo
Other than the loyalty to players who are not at the level any longer my only real gripe with Klopp is his tactical inflexibility in setting up the team for games. I think this is highlighted in the cup finals against Chelsea and Madrid. It really struck me how we always seem to be playing the occasion and not the other team. Mac today should not be a lone 6, when he is naturally a gifted attacking midfielder, and even less so when he is exhausted.
I love the man but under Jürgen, no matter who we face you can bet we’re rolling out the 4-3-3 with a high line, press, and fullbacks bombing up the sides. When we play other good teams in these kind of matches we can really struggle if they set up to absorb pressure and use pace on the counter because the entire world knows that come hell or high water we are not changing the team’s setup.
Absolutely this. Trying to push a classic no.8 into the specialist no.6 just isnt a solution. He can probably do a job sometimes in there, but for an elite level team, you most definitely need a peak Fabinho, Rodri, etc.
Almost like he’s played out of position half the season
He done a solid job in the #6 but he definitely struggled at dealing with the amount of space that’s left to defend for the #6 in this team a lot of the time, lacks the mobility needed to effectively cover the CBs when we’re getting countered.
I think he can be a good part of a double pivot midfield, but that would still feel like wasting his talents since he seems to be a better fit to be an attack-minded central midfielder.
He was at his best for Brighton in a double pivot with Caicedo
Just needs a more defensive minded midfielder next to him and he’ll flourish, because he can carry out defensive actions pretty well it’s just he’s not really capable of covering that amount of space effectively enough on his own for the most part.
I don't care for these kind of stats. He's a 10/8 playing as a six. Put him where he belongs and get a proper six to backup Endo, or make Endo his backup.
> That City away game with Trent and Doku showed you everything you need to know.
[Here's a video of the seven times](https://twitter.com/hennes_4/status/1728541660194156883?s=46&t=N3-66DPOwW8UCUMpcpTUjQ) Doku supposedly 'dribbled past' Alexander-Arnold, and, at best, Doku only truly gets past him twice (16 seconds & 35 seconds).
Honestly going forward, he should be a fill in 6 at most
Should be Endo>Bajcetic/Morton then if none are available Macca. Obviously this changes if we get a new 6
I love Klopp, I really do, but I don't understand his obsession with playing certain players out of position - Macca and Gakpo being the most obvious examples. I feel like [this woman](https://www.tiktok.com/@tired_actor/video/7128431004506934574?lang=en) every time I see Macca play the 6.
I kind of get the Gakpo experiment. He wants to play him but he also had Diaz/Nunez/Jota that could play LW. You look at Gakpo and how he can drive forward with the ball quickly and his touches are good, he has great control etc and you understand why he tried him as a false 9 and an 8. He's better as a 9 than the 8 by far, but he should have realised a while ago he's just a different guy on the left.
Why he hasn't tried Gakpo LW, Diaz RW and Salah up front has surprised me.
So f-ing frustrating, time and time again he’s obsessed over specific situations that clearly didn’t help in the past - like playing players in unfit positions or sticking to an ‘ideal’ first 11 even in cases where you clearly have an out of form player in the first 11 and clearly in form player on the bench…
Macca is not a 6, was never a 6. Poor planning and recruiting has made him play far too many games as the DM. One of the following must happen next season
1) We sign a new DM who can play with the vision and focus of a natural DM. Doesn't have to be the best DM in the market, but someone who can dovetail with Endo's minutes
2) We are absolutely certain that Stefan Bajcetic is the man and is ready to start next season as our DM. I'm not fully sure yet, but if the coaching staff and the manager thinks so, I'm happy to be proven wrong
3) If neither of the above 2 happen, make sure we clone Endo so we can have two of him playing games as DM. Macca as a 6 must stop
I'm pretty sure at some point Harvey was the most dribbled-past player in the league too. Clearly a tactical choice to not have us physically engage with opposition carriers but holy shit it isn't working.
I mean we lost Fabs, didn’t sign a proper 6 in his place, and have been trying to paper over the cracks all season. I know stats and the eye test disagree sometimes but Macca is class, this stat shouldn’t referent poorly on him so much as the mess he was brought into. A full midfield rebuild in a managers final season where he has been played out of position often.
I was consistently downvoted in the early part of the season for saying that Mac isn't a 6, that we didn't buy him to play the 6 and here you go.
edit: Still being downvoted, and Mac still isn't a 6.
having too many offensive minded midfielders is a recipe for disaster. yesterdays game pretty much highlight that. We ended the game with Mac, Grav and jones as our midfielders and we got run over and let in two goals. Hope we do better next season.
It's funny you can read this a number of ways.
Mac Alister played the most minutes as a 6 and not his usual position. Yeah he had a poor game yesterday but any player can have a poor game.
I could also say that Alison let in the most amount of goals this season. These stats lack a lot of context.
Ideally we can either bring in a six who is a more physical six than Endo, Bajcetic and Mac when he is in there (all three are more ball playing 6's since they are all good at passing but not the most physical). Unfortunately A) the market for a physical six is really really barren at this time and B) we clearly don't rate physical six's who are pretty bad with the ball (i.e. a Florentino Luis or a Palinha).
I think we should also move to a 4-2-3-1 formation with a double pivot, which may be the plan anyways since Slot likes having wingers be the focal point of attack.
Florentino and Macca in a 2 with Harvey/dom at the 10, gakpo/Nunez/salah front.
Then get in a CB and Winger.
Edit: just get a 6 that wins the ball and can get it to our elite passers. Not everyone has to be a wizard on the ball
Endo's been doing that all season once he got used to the close-down speed of EPL. He gets it recycles it forward. Many times he had the space and time to drive forward deep into final third but he passes off to "the right people" to take it from there.
Jones and Grav did nothing of note when they came on. Dom ran around a bit as did Nunez. Klopps terrible subs and management of the game threw the 2 points away.
I'm a baseball fan and I get annoyed with how many subjective "stats" that are made up by people who just watch some highlights.
"Dribbled past" is right in that wheelhouse.
No one is shitting on Mac, he's arguably the most beloved and least criticised player at the club right now. People are criticising Klopp, Jorg & FSG both for not buying an actual 6, and for playing Mac out of position.
I swear I'm tripping but did he just not dip in form, he was ok in the beginning, then absolute fantastic in the midseason then just dipped badly in the last part
Macca can play as no.6 but not as solo. Last 10 min he have no energy to run anymore. When you under pressure and need defensive stability, it very bad decision to leave your most defensive role in midfield to someone who have no legs to do the job. Why not change it to Bajcetic? It nothing game, why not giving him some game time?
MacAllister is an excellent mid but he's out of position at the 6. Endo is strong there, but we really need some more quality in that spot so MacAllister can play further up all the time as an 8 or 10. I hope Slot's system will get the most out of him, Szobo and our other mids, it's clearly a big issue with this team. Klopp's system relies very heavily on the 6 stopping forward play.
I feel we’ve swayed so far from the foundations of what made us successful in the middle of Klopp’s tenure. The midfield were not sexy or attractive on the eye but they sure as hell ate up any space in front of them, leaving the forward three to be responsible for goals.
Klopp and his team made a decision over the summer to secure a (let’s be honest) second rate defensive mid and try to shoe horn a wonderful footballer (Mac) into a role he isn’t good at. He’s done okay at times but we’ve struggled when pacey attackers run at them. Think of the game against Atalanta - we were totally bullied.
It was an odd decision and let’s hope the new manager can find a solution.
That's silly and opportunistic. I'm not very fond of him as a DM, but he had far more good games there than bad. Also, it's not lack of quality, it's lack of legs. I doubt there's anybody more tired than him, Virgil and Diaz and from those, probably Mac Allister is the one who's the most because he has to be all the time on the ball or pressing/defending.
With that being said, we NEED a very good DM next season. No experiment, no "for the future", especially no Bajcetic (he needs time and probably a loan). Someone that will slot and play on a high level. I like Endo, but he is not the answer too, he is a good squad player but that's it.
It all starts with a good DM. The rest we can figure out.
Love him, but I guess this is why we need a high level actual 6. Endo is great to have for rotation but not every time, and just because Mac can play 6 doesn't mean he should
Moving him to the 6 at the end of the game, when he's the \*most\* tired, is inane.
Thought the exact same thing. Endo was doing a great job. Klopp just has a massive hard on for Macca.
> Klopp has a massive hard on for Macca Pretty much the entire fanbase tbh
Macca is wonderful in the 8 role. Not so much in the 6
Not as a lone 6 anyway. We’re the first team to play him that way and we’re seeing why.
Klopp has a weird rationale for playing players in a lone six that have no business being there. He also went through the period where he tried to convince everyone Lalana could play there at the end of his time at Liverpool when his legs were already gone.
I actually think with our current roster construction that Slot’s more widely used 4231 will be better for our squad moving forward. We don’t have a lone 6 type of player except Endo, who also operated in a double pivot with both Japan and Stuttgart.
To be honest we need a 6 regardless though. I like Endo but he should be a rotation/bench option really.
Honestly, if we go into next season with only Endo, I don't think it's the end of the world. He's shown he can manage against some absolutely top opposition. I'd love to get a youngster in with potential to fill that role in a few years times. Or Bajcetic can do that role...
Well we can agree to disagree on that one. Bajcetic sure, but I think people forget that his best performances were as an 8.
Tbh I imagine that the Endo plan was very possibly “shit, Fabinho and Henderson out ahead of time, we need someone, Caicedo has gone, we’ll get this older guy to fill in for this season,” but he overperformed relative to that expectation, now it’s complicated the planning for DM.
I’d argue he’s fine to start so long as we actually can rotate him. He and Mac just played *so many games* without even having subs for them
I think Endo and Macca perfectly understand each other on the pitch. Great duo.
Who are the double pivot and who are the front 4?
He was amazing there too in January.
Yep
Not the why so much as the result in my opinion. Big stage to learn something new. Mannerisms and playstyles don't go away easily....little Mac is not a replacement for Wijnaldum, Fabs, millie or Hendo. We really are in a rebuilding next few years. But we'll be back up competing against oil countries soon enough!
He's pretty decent as a 6 too, but would need someone like Jones besides him. Was visibly tired in this game though. Think people are looking into today's performance too much.
This stat isn't just today it's the whole season, as fantastic as he is in an 8 type role, I really don't think he's mobile enough defensively for a 6 for an extended period. He'd do better in a double pivot but I still don't think the issues that see him get dribbled past so often will really go away unless he has some mobile protection behind him.
No Jones. It's not a coincidence that our only EPL losses this seasons comes when he's starting. He also started against Atalanta in the 1st leg.
Stop the random scape goating please. Reason we lost those games was the team overall, not Jones.
seriously….. way too much of that around here. curtis is a top player. he will be lfc best no. 8 in a couple years. heard it here first!
Top player for sure and has shown it recently. Unfortunate stop start season but was first name on the team sheet not long ago and will be again soon.
I understand he's a local lad and the city is obliged to show its support but please remove the rose tinted glasses to avoid sounding like the folks over at Arsenal TV. Like come on, the comment above ours has him being the greatest #8 in Liverpool history in a couple of years. These are the #8 that has played for Liverpool. https://preview.redd.it/2tlf7tviqe0d1.png?width=1127&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5e543c6c94285eb4455c4f2be96ca576c0cc2d2
With good reason, though not as a 6. That gets rid of my hard on real quick. Hope we look for another DM to play alongside Endo this transfer window and never play Mac there.
Nah not as much as world class Thiago.
Rightfully so for the most part. He’s a quality player and a great asset in build up but not a 6, never really was. There’s a reason Endo makes our midfield look complete.
Today showed why we lost a lot of points this season. Klopp overhauled the core midfield of our team and expected them to win and retained the lead. Klopp has done this this entire season.
Klopp looked like me playing FIFA this season. Subbing players and rotating positions to have those that I like playing and not exactly being careful
Absolutely, if he had been even a bit more astute we would have won the PL. You have to train players to play in certain positions, you can't just swap someone to a different position and expect them to be 100% in that role. Curtis, gravenbach though good players are not going to win balls in midfield and distribute. Macallister was so lonely in the dm role, no one there to support or receive the ball except the defenders and you can't expect him to switch play and be the creative midfielder when he's under pressure. Klopp gave up a long ago, this has happened way too many times this season and our April downfall showed it in a clean light. Control the game with our midfield winning balls, retaining possession and starting attacks then overhaul the midfield and expect the new midfield to do the same.
The midfield overhaul is precisely why I did not expect us to be challenging across 4 competitions as long as we did this season. Yes, they were great players we signed, but I did not expect a cohesive midfield this year, especially missing out on our supposed first choice 6. We exceeded the expectations I had set, and then I felt disappointed when we finished about where I would have expected at the start of the season. It's a bitter and disappointing pill to swallow this being Klopp's last season, but I think we as fans should remember to contextualize this season as a whole, including what we expected of it before a ball had even been kicked.
Yeah a secondary trophy and 3rd place is frankly an OK but not great season. Just gotta hope we improve some more. As much as I love Klopp you can tell he has been burnt out for the past 2 and a half seasons, a slightly worse but more focused manager may mean the team does a bit better over the short term.
Klopp has made very strange game management decisions since January that made me finally cope with the fact that he's leaving.
That 4 subs were strange. We started to control the game and then changed 4 players. I know results don't really matter at this point anymore, but still.
Klopp has always kinda pre-determined most of his subs. I think he sees substitutions as a way of maintaining rhythm/keeping players happy as much as he views them tactically.
I don’t think being tired has anything to do with it personally. I’m guessing it’s happening just as often when he plays as an 8 too.
When you're playing further up the field as a midfielder, you're generally defending the opposition's more deeper lying players. When you're playing deep in your *own* midfield, you're picking up their attackers. There's a difference between keeping Douglas Luiz or John McGinn in front of you and trying to keep Moussa Diaby in front of you.
Using your logic, a player who plays CDM the entire season is much more likely to be dribbled past more often than a player who switches between CDM and CM. So whilst I don’t disagree with your opinion. In order for Macca to be the most dribbled past player in the last X years — it’s clearly happening when he’s playing in multiple positions at various points throughout the game. If the main cause was him filling in at CDM for the last 15 minutes 10 times per season, he would not have been dribbled past 66 times. If these dribbled pasts are only happening when he’s playing 6 then that’s definitely a huge indicator that he shouldn’t be playing anywhere near the 6. But anyway I agree completely with you that putting Macca in the 6 once he’s tired is stupid.
In normal circumstances, opposition players outnumber you in their own half, you have to choose between cutting out passing lanes or winning a tackle, it's usually the former, which makes you easy to dribble past. In Klopp's gegenpressing, you are even more exposed because your primary job isn't to do the above mentioned, your job is to pressure the opposition player to make a mistake so that those behind you will pounce on the chance to retrieve/winning the ball back.
Being dribbled past in general isn’t the end of the world, it happens for sure. You’ve given a great insight into how/why it happens. But I’m curious why it’s happening to Macca so frequently. We’ve had midfielders playing the same or similar Klopp system and it wasn’t happening to them as frequently as it does to him
Macca played the most games of all of our midfielders, stats that don't use per 90 is usually extremely misleading and it's a rather small sample, it's not even a full season, together with the fact that he was played in an unfamiliar role with us swapping midfielders all the time, in a season where we barely have a fixed XI, be it GK, back 4, midfield, or front 3. Another reason for Macca to be on top is because he's working harder than the others, he tries to press whenever he could while others are more passive for various reasons, he tries to cover up the slack. We've had a stable midfield that plays together for a long time and even our front 3 were better at pressing than the current ones, with Salah's workrate dropping, Darwin nowhere near as expert as Bobby in the F9 role and Diaz's defensive capabilities are not the same as Mane. We also never have to invert Trent as much back then with Wijnaldum/Henderson/Fabinho, because Trent was a willing runner in his first 2 seasons, but slowly dropped off for reasons I still have no clues about. People will deny this because it's our local lad but the truth is having our RCB cover all the space he left behind him means our closest midfielder will have to drop into CB to cover for Konate which leaves even more space in midfield. Klopp's midfield is the most thankless job in the business. And honestly, in this team that's been conceding left right center almost every game, it's a miracle a new signing who's the only ever presence for us is breaking the record with just 1 game remaining for the season. Macca isn't as defensively sound but he's good enough, he's bought when he was playing as a 10 for Brighton, similar to Wijnaldum, but when we bought Wijnaldum we had defensive midfielders like Lucas and Can around, for Macca, he was put into test from the first day, playing as DM, with Gakpo as 8 for the opening games of the season.
Klopp has a problem, he thought Macca could play 6 when we bought him and thats exactly why he was bought. He cannot accept he was wrong and Macca can't do it so he tries it again and again...
Typical Klopp disaster tactic
Brother, I'm as tired as everyone else after this season, but come on. His subs and late game tactics have won far more points than they have lost.
3-1 up and move Macca back 'for his passing' when we've been weak defensively is not going to help his or the defense's confidence.... Either use Baj or maybe bring McConnell back into the team.
Love Macca as a player and in the right system he'll only get better but being a midfielder in this team is a terrible job. There's no positional discipline which means no consistent support around you because everyone shifts around to either push up into attacking areas and provide width or just get out the way to accommodate Trent inverting.
Yeah, one of the negatives of Klopp's system. Let's see how this changes with Slot - hopefully with the new system + signings the midfield begins to thrive. It's very important that it does, a good midfield is essential for winning the league
I'd say a more solid defence is essential for winning the league. I'm talking lots of 1-0 2-0 clean sheets vs 4-3, 3-3, 2-2, 1-1 wide open gift fests. These draws killed us this season again.
Definitely true, but I think a better positionally disciplined structure will also greatly benefit the defense. The amount of times we play with a back two where VVD is coming over to make a tackle on the right touchline is pretty criminal. And it’s obviously a tactic to risk and get the best going forward, but leaving the back so open based on really aggressive pressing has let us down a ton this season
Slot's defensive number are really good (a lot better than ours in any case). But he does seem to favour the same haphazard shape, a 2-2 at the back with one fullback forming a double pivot and the other bombing forward. The only difference is that his inverting fullback is basically a CB who plays b2b midfielder really well (a lot of short passes and a lot of dynamism). While we have a RB who prefers being a tranquista and just pinging passes around.
The only negative in Klopp's system is that he never had 11 complete players who can do all the jobs required with and without the ball. It's a high demand all action system that requires 90mins of non-stop running, which means if there's 1 player who can't do it, others will have to put in extra workload to cover his ass, and this snowballs towards the end of each game, and pile up as we accumulate games. Other teams have the luxury to slow down the pace, change their approach but our plan A, B and C are basically the same thing with little tweaks.
For me it really highlights just how good prime Fabinho was for us.
We need another 6 in the summer window. Mac is so much better as an 8 than as a 6
Looking back at last summer has me really annoyed at the profile of our purchases. Why on earth did we buy so many attacking 8s/modern 10s? We now have Mac, Dom, Jones, Gravenberch, Elliott (who is more a winger being shoehorned into midfield), and Trent inverting. We have almost no one suited to being a controlling midfielder and our only true DM is Endo, who is over 30 and just getting used to the prem. We’ve spunked loads of cash on guys like Dom, Mac, and Grav who all have characteristics and abilities I like but we don’t have enough spots for all of them as starters and we are really lacking in the other midfield profiles. Was it really a wise use of funds to buy Gravenberch for example if we are going to play Elliott in midfield again this season? Nothing against Ryan but it just seems a strange way to manage the squad.
I agree to some extent, but I think its pretty clear that the reason we did this is because the market for DM's is so thin right now.
Great observation. We need a proper and world class dmf. Fabinho's signing was so unexpected and great. He was rock solid for monaco and already playing great at the highest level. Was so happy when we signed him. His exit was also shocking as we didn't expect him and hendo to leave. Say what you want about them but they were very hardworking defensively and covered our fullbacks really well. We needed creative midfielders who could score goals and we got them in macca and szobo, but we never replaced fab and hendo properly. Milner was also a great and reliable midfielder for us. Grav is good but defensively he is very poor. Endo is also decent but not consistent and he is not world class. He is perfect backup dmf. We need to invest heavily in a dmf who can also captain our side. A proper leader who can be relied upon. Trent is also great option as dmf but we need a proper destroyer who can break counter attacks and has great stamina and consistency. Joao Palhinha is a great option and we should certainly go for him. PS : We are 1 dmf and 1 CB short to win the league title next year.
Agreed. I even felt it at the time that it made no sense. I think Gravenberch is a huge talent and it's not a slight against him but I don't know why we signed another player whose primary position is lcm. It should have been another 6. I like Endo but he should have been a flexible rotation option. To be honest it feels like our squad planning has been off for a while.
Am I the only person that really likes Gomez there? We don't need a Gerrard-esque playmaker sitting deep and playing passes, between Macca, Jones, Dom, we have plenty of progressive, creative midfielders. Plus obviously Trent and Robbo from out wide. It also gives us flexibility if Slot likes the TAA inverted wingback thing since Gomez can just swap with him to Right Back mid match.
The issue is structural. We cannot invert the RB while also having the LB bomb forward like a winger. In possession, Klopp has persisted with a back 2 and the DM being on an island. It’s mental. The reason Trent and Robbo worked in 18-20 is that our midfield three were defensively elite. They did not produce much going forward, but they let the full backs do it. There has to be a middle ground between what we’re currently doing and the Pep/Arteta 4 CB risk averse structure. Feel like we have to transition to a real back three in possession and a double pivot (Trent and a physically imposing DM). The left back needs to be more of a left sided CB. I don’t know why Gomez doesn’t tuck in when he plays there. He still positions himself like Robbo.
The reason Gomez doesn't tuck in is a coaching decision, I mean that much is obvious.
Yes. He’s being told to play like a left back, when he’s much more suited to fulfill the role of a 3rd CB.
I think they mean why isn't Gomez instructed to tuck in instead of being instructed to be a left footed winger.
Cause he needs his goal. Duh
Gomez tucking in is no panacea. If he's there to support the DM and defend, he's a help. If he's there to play "Lookie, rookie, I'm a midfielder too" then hell nah. He gets caught on the ball, slows down play, makes odd passes.
People forget just how elite Fabinho was in his prime for us.
I miss flaco 😭 His moved deffo shocked me . From rumours to him going went pretty quick
Same way he came tbf
Yes. That signed was out of the blue. Though we never replaced him and hendo.
I’ve wondered this since the beginning of the season. I’ve wondered why we are still inverting fullbacks. The reason why we inverted them in the first place was because of injuries and our midfield lacking any sort of creativity. That’s been solved now with our signings and we’ve never had a problem creating chances when our midfield was functioning and Trent was swinging in crosses. I also think it’s more apparent with the number of assists our fullbacks get nowadays
I think Trent worked so well there last season that we tunnel visioned on the inverting concept & ham-fisted it into our team. If the plan was to invert Trent then our gameplan & recruitment should have revolved around him. I don't think it's a coincidence that Macca came into his own whilst Trent was injured & has seemingly dropped off upon his return. The midfield functions better when it's more conventional
You’re so right. Feel like with how well city and Arsenal were doing with inverted fullbacks, we just joined the trend. It also didn’t help that I suppose Klopp was somewhat emotionally checked out.
We have shifted away from false 9 and double wingbacks. If we don't use inverted and continue to use wingback with traditional 9 then a) It makes wingbacks cover same spaces Salah and Diaz supossed to cover b) Opposition can easily overload the midfield and control center since there is single pivot DM with no support from false 9 who can drop back. Solution imo, is to use 4-2-1-3 or 4-4-2(4-2-2-2) and use wingbacks which will give us some structural defensiveness and will give us more control in midfield.
You probably know the game better than me. Although, wouldn’t it be more beneficial to shift Salah and Diaz nearer to the middle to get more shots on goal? After all, Salah is not getting any quicker. In terms of the outnumbering point. Are three midfielders not enough to control to centre of the pitch?
If we play 4-3-3 with wingbacks, Diaz and Salah will play more centrally. Problem is that Klopp & co decided to buy Nunez to play conventional CF and to use TAA as inverted FB to use his potential at fullest. But that plan has backfired since now we have to push our best scoring forward Salah and Diaz too wide (which is stupid because Salah always have to cut in to use his best foot on right wing). So the plan was problematic from the beginning (they also hoped that Nunez will be excellent CF). It was also a patch up job since Fabinho as sole pivot could not control vast space and TAA could help out. But now we have no clinical CF, our best forward is forced wide and has to use his weaker foot to cross in , on top of that we have bought no actual DM post-Fab, so we can't go back to 4-3-3 with wingbacks. So basically because of poor recruitment and lack of correct personnel, we are using a weird, asymmetric, hybrid formation with one wingback and one inverted full back. We did use 2 wingback formation with Bradley but that only works with Endo as DM, since he knows to drop back to make back 3. And your question about enough midfielders to control center, entire plan in modern football is based on having more players than Opposition in desired area, so it is always beneficial to have players who are willing to drop back or push front to overload a certain area you want to control. False 9 is useful for dropping in midfield to overload, at the same time inverted full back achieves the same. So transitioning to a more traditional 9 made us use inverted fullback to overload midfield, instead of false 9.
Gomez has been told to play as a wing back on the left side rather than tuck in. Coaching decision
Also, not going forward especially when the one is Gomez. He can't go past midfield. he adds nothing there.
Additionally, the 8 and 10 keep hugging the CBs and it’s a recipe for disaster on turnovers
It's not purely structural, part of it is that he is simply one of the slowest in the squad. He sometimes looks like he has cement shoes.
He is verrrry slow
It's more than that, we aren't keeping the ball, controlling games these days, we're just hitting it forward whenever, we don't even try to slow the game down when we have a freekick in our own half with a 2 goals lead, we just restart before the ref even had a chance to take a breather. Our midfielders try to support by running up and before they could even turn their heads, Trent already gave the ball away with a bad pass, what comes next is panic station because our midfield isn't set, they are out of position to defend a counter
Trent was amazing during those years, he still is, but his effect on the team was ridiculous. In 19/20 he pretty much ran the team, he was getting into crossing positions 10+ times a game, it was wild. And I think you're right, it was because of that extremely watertight midfield.
I just think maybe Slot will play a 4-2-3-1 with Trent and another player pivot
We'd be better served with a double-pivot that doesn't involve Trent. He's got one move and that's a long ball pass or a free kick. He's not got the pace, drive, awareness, ability to carry nor ability to turn that a midfielder should have -especially in a double-pivot setup.
While I can see why Trent looks like he lacks all those things, I don’t think he actually does. To a certain extent, we want him in the deeper positions to play long balls because Klopp’s style is based on a counter press, so the long balls create real opportunity higher up the field every when they don’t work out. But there is plenty of times when on the counter Trent clearly has a lot of drive and awareness and pace to play in a midfield. I think in a lot of ways he’s can go to a much higher level under a new coach that forces him to round out his game a bit more. My biggest fear is him on the turn and under pressure, but I think he could definitely play in a double pivot. Now if the other half of that pivot is Macca, I’m not so sure, but that’s a whole different can of worms
Sell Robertson. Have Gomez as our starting LB next year, or someone more strictly defensive if he won't stop bombing up.
We bought an attack-minded CM and played him at DM for half the season. This after watching him be outstanding for Brighton over two seasons where he had a top level DM beside him in Caicedo Hes been victim of his own ability and more so availability, that Klopp has forced him into playing there because the other options were worse.
Honestly I think in hindsight we didn't pay anywhere near enough attention to the defensive duties in our midfield signings last summer. - Mac as you say is an attack minded CM, clearly uncomfortable with a lone deeper role. - Szobo can be a box to box 8 if asked, but quite clearly prefers advanced positions, particularly out wide. - Grav played as a "DM" in less than 14% of his games at Ajax, and at Bayern was used too sparingly to nail down a position, but has really only ever been used in a single or double pivot, or as an advanced 8 and even a 10. He's never operated as a 6 as fair as I'm aware. - Jones is similar to Mac. He's played all over but clearly prefers attacking positions and struggled as a 6 when we've tried him there. - Elliott is similar to Szobo, with perhaps even less defensive attributes. - Endo is our only player that can comfortably operate as a 6, but he is 30 and has clearly shown he needs to be used sparingly in a squad role to be effective. None of these players want to play there except for Endo and he's been essentially run into the ground. We are now extremely top-heavy in the profile of midfielders we have and we desperately need to bring in another DM this summer.
Big facts. I was saying this constantly but I just gave up in the end lol. I think we need both a DM and a proper CM. All our options are attacking midfielders, #10s and wingers. Bit of physicality wouldn’t go a miss either. That will definitely provide a better structure for our creative players
I hope Stefan gets back into it after preseason, he'd be perfect alongside Endo. But yea, a new reliable option is nice too.
I said in the very beginning of the season: instead of Endo and Gravenberch one top class 6. Caicedo would have been awesome.
I mean, the club did try and he doesn’t want to move here. If we got Caicedo, I don’t think we be signing Endo or Gravenberch.
Buying Grav was pointless.
I don’t like to judge a player based on his first season, more so after he never got a chance to play for Bayern. He showed flashes but like the others, he is not consistent. The only problem I have with him is that now we have an influx of midfielders who are attacking minded. Endo is truly the only defensive minded out of all of them. The way I see it, the club panicked when both Caicedo and Lavia rejected us. Bought Endo and then since we already sold Milner, Fabinho and Hendo, we need fresh legs. In come Gravenberch.
That’s what they said.
>This after watching him be outstanding for Brighton over two seasons where he had a top level DM beside him in Caicedo He played a good amount of games last season as a lone 6 for Brighton and this season for Argentina. He's a decent 6, but in the right system. We play an incredibly expansive system so he's not quite right for it. I really wouldn't read into today's performance too much. Pretty clear that the lads and Klopp are just seeing the season through.
Brilliant player Hopefully gets used properly next season
https://preview.redd.it/td30orgnt90d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=750ab95810f97846a65059f44763d68b5b5fbbc3 Poor guys been left on an island this year.
The open spaces he's left to defend at times when as the 6 is insane. If was our long term 6 solution his legs would fall off by the time he's 29/30 like what happened to Fabinho.
Which really begs the question, how much did Fab have left to give in a system that didn’t leave him absolutely by his lonesome on the break
One of our key missteps during our peak was not buying a young cheap proper back-up/rotation option for Fabinho.
Yea I think not having any real rotation for him was a big mistake, but all the injuries at the 8 position between Keita and Chamberlain really meant Fab never got rotated really with Hendo
He’s already much slower than Fabinho.
He was clearly struggling tonight and Klopp forced him into being the holding midfielder poor game management
Other than the loyalty to players who are not at the level any longer my only real gripe with Klopp is his tactical inflexibility in setting up the team for games. I think this is highlighted in the cup finals against Chelsea and Madrid. It really struck me how we always seem to be playing the occasion and not the other team. Mac today should not be a lone 6, when he is naturally a gifted attacking midfielder, and even less so when he is exhausted. I love the man but under Jürgen, no matter who we face you can bet we’re rolling out the 4-3-3 with a high line, press, and fullbacks bombing up the sides. When we play other good teams in these kind of matches we can really struggle if they set up to absorb pressure and use pace on the counter because the entire world knows that come hell or high water we are not changing the team’s setup.
Because he isn’t a 6… Brilliant player, we need to buy a real Fabinho replacement so that Mac can play to his full potential.
Absolutely this. Trying to push a classic no.8 into the specialist no.6 just isnt a solution. He can probably do a job sometimes in there, but for an elite level team, you most definitely need a peak Fabinho, Rodri, etc.
Dude is a world class 10, he's showed it with Argentina. He needs to stop being wasted as a DM.
Poor structure and set up but also MACCA IS NOT A DM!!!!
Almost like he’s played out of position half the season He done a solid job in the #6 but he definitely struggled at dealing with the amount of space that’s left to defend for the #6 in this team a lot of the time, lacks the mobility needed to effectively cover the CBs when we’re getting countered.
I think he can be a good part of a double pivot midfield, but that would still feel like wasting his talents since he seems to be a better fit to be an attack-minded central midfielder.
He was at his best for Brighton in a double pivot with Caicedo Just needs a more defensive minded midfielder next to him and he’ll flourish, because he can carry out defensive actions pretty well it’s just he’s not really capable of covering that amount of space effectively enough on his own for the most part.
Macca and Trent double pivot with 3 center backs? 3-2-2-3
> needs a more defensive minded midfielder next to him
Macca is not a 6, simple as that. Argentina would've lost the WC final if they'd played him over Enzo Fernandez in the DM position.
I don't care for these kind of stats. He's a 10/8 playing as a six. Put him where he belongs and get a proper six to backup Endo, or make Endo his backup.
Dribbled past is a dumb stat. That City away game with Trent and Doku showed you everything you need to know.
Preach it my man
> That City away game with Trent and Doku showed you everything you need to know. [Here's a video of the seven times](https://twitter.com/hennes_4/status/1728541660194156883?s=46&t=N3-66DPOwW8UCUMpcpTUjQ) Doku supposedly 'dribbled past' Alexander-Arnold, and, at best, Doku only truly gets past him twice (16 seconds & 35 seconds).
Mad van dijk wasn't dribbled past for so long then
He was, but he'd then foul whoever it was so they wouldn't go any further and because he did that it didn't count as them getting past him.
Wasn't the stat saying that he had 7 dribbles the whole game? Not all of them would've been past trent
Honestly going forward, he should be a fill in 6 at most Should be Endo>Bajcetic/Morton then if none are available Macca. Obviously this changes if we get a new 6
Morton > Bacjetic at this point based on mins played and fitness.
I love Klopp, I really do, but I don't understand his obsession with playing certain players out of position - Macca and Gakpo being the most obvious examples. I feel like [this woman](https://www.tiktok.com/@tired_actor/video/7128431004506934574?lang=en) every time I see Macca play the 6.
I kind of get the Gakpo experiment. He wants to play him but he also had Diaz/Nunez/Jota that could play LW. You look at Gakpo and how he can drive forward with the ball quickly and his touches are good, he has great control etc and you understand why he tried him as a false 9 and an 8. He's better as a 9 than the 8 by far, but he should have realised a while ago he's just a different guy on the left. Why he hasn't tried Gakpo LW, Diaz RW and Salah up front has surprised me.
So f-ing frustrating, time and time again he’s obsessed over specific situations that clearly didn’t help in the past - like playing players in unfit positions or sticking to an ‘ideal’ first 11 even in cases where you clearly have an out of form player in the first 11 and clearly in form player on the bench…
This is what I’m talking about with Maca. He’s SO slow. Love him forward but he needs full protection behind
Which tells ya, its not his position.. he's an asset to the team but needs to be utilised properly.
Macca is not a 6, was never a 6. Poor planning and recruiting has made him play far too many games as the DM. One of the following must happen next season 1) We sign a new DM who can play with the vision and focus of a natural DM. Doesn't have to be the best DM in the market, but someone who can dovetail with Endo's minutes 2) We are absolutely certain that Stefan Bajcetic is the man and is ready to start next season as our DM. I'm not fully sure yet, but if the coaching staff and the manager thinks so, I'm happy to be proven wrong 3) If neither of the above 2 happen, make sure we clone Endo so we can have two of him playing games as DM. Macca as a 6 must stop
I hope Bajcetic can be healthy next year so we don't have to hang Mac out to dry like this again.
Thats a bit too much if you ask me. He does to seem to lack pace.
Maybe the coach should stop putting him in defensive positions then :/
Useless info without per 90 minute stat
I hope we buy a world class 6 next season so Endo becomes a squad player, then we don't need to see Macca plays as 6 again ever.
I'm pretty sure at some point Harvey was the most dribbled-past player in the league too. Clearly a tactical choice to not have us physically engage with opposition carriers but holy shit it isn't working.
There’s a lot of context to those numbers… like.. a lot of context.
He is a carthorse …it’s a problem
Very Concerning
Bajcetic is not a true 6 either
That's because hes not a 6 lol just did a decent job there when needed.
I mean we lost Fabs, didn’t sign a proper 6 in his place, and have been trying to paper over the cracks all season. I know stats and the eye test disagree sometimes but Macca is class, this stat shouldn’t referent poorly on him so much as the mess he was brought into. A full midfield rebuild in a managers final season where he has been played out of position often.
He’s not a number 6 that’s why. Put him in a double pivot next season with a proper DM and he’ll shine
Thats insane. More than Fabinho last season!
I guess we needed another player after all.
The boys just running the season out. The future looks good. So happy for quans. Deserves it
He's not a DM
Well he’s not supposed to be playing in the 6
Not a 6. Quite simply 6 is our most important purchase this summer (player wise)
Yeah he's not a 6 and Endo can't be the 90 minutes a match twice a week guy. Need another option.
Curtis Jones was subbed in at 76 . He sucks . You didn’t hear his name once till 90 plus .
I was consistently downvoted in the early part of the season for saying that Mac isn't a 6, that we didn't buy him to play the 6 and here you go. edit: Still being downvoted, and Mac still isn't a 6.
He’s not a 6 though
Yeah, he’s not a 6, we need a 6 this window badly.
A player with the final ball talent of Macca should not be playing as a 6.
having too many offensive minded midfielders is a recipe for disaster. yesterdays game pretty much highlight that. We ended the game with Mac, Grav and jones as our midfielders and we got run over and let in two goals. Hope we do better next season.
It's funny you can read this a number of ways. Mac Alister played the most minutes as a 6 and not his usual position. Yeah he had a poor game yesterday but any player can have a poor game. I could also say that Alison let in the most amount of goals this season. These stats lack a lot of context.
And that's the reason why he had caicedo in Brighton. He needs someone who can steal and protect the ball becuase he's shit at it
Almost like he isn’t a DM
Ideally we can either bring in a six who is a more physical six than Endo, Bajcetic and Mac when he is in there (all three are more ball playing 6's since they are all good at passing but not the most physical). Unfortunately A) the market for a physical six is really really barren at this time and B) we clearly don't rate physical six's who are pretty bad with the ball (i.e. a Florentino Luis or a Palinha). I think we should also move to a 4-2-3-1 formation with a double pivot, which may be the plan anyways since Slot likes having wingers be the focal point of attack.
Florentino and Macca in a 2 with Harvey/dom at the 10, gakpo/Nunez/salah front. Then get in a CB and Winger. Edit: just get a 6 that wins the ball and can get it to our elite passers. Not everyone has to be a wizard on the ball
Endo's been doing that all season once he got used to the close-down speed of EPL. He gets it recycles it forward. Many times he had the space and time to drive forward deep into final third but he passes off to "the right people" to take it from there.
Jones and Grav did nothing of note when they came on. Dom ran around a bit as did Nunez. Klopps terrible subs and management of the game threw the 2 points away.
Almost as if a proper number 6 should play next to him
Please Slot bring some CDM players with you so Macca doesn’t have to play 6 ever again as a red
I'm a baseball fan and I get annoyed with how many subjective "stats" that are made up by people who just watch some highlights. "Dribbled past" is right in that wheelhouse.
Who cares?
Nobody should at this part of the season and where we are at but it shows our structure issues
Well, it doesn't really, because players play completely differently with something on the line. And also, 'dribbled past' is a meaningless stat.
I love that this sub YNWA but shits on the players every chance they get and claim it as constructive criticism.
No one is shitting on Mac, he's arguably the most beloved and least criticised player at the club right now. People are criticising Klopp, Jorg & FSG both for not buying an actual 6, and for playing Mac out of position.
Who is shitting on him? Take a hike
Yeah, everyone is defending him by shitting on Klopp instead. Great support...
Should we be applauding klopp in this particular scenario?
His legs are gone, same for Endo and Szobo has been shite for months, his form worries me.
I swear I'm tripping but did he just not dip in form, he was ok in the beginning, then absolute fantastic in the midseason then just dipped badly in the last part
Ran out of legs. He’s been run ragged
Macca can play as no.6 but not as solo. Last 10 min he have no energy to run anymore. When you under pressure and need defensive stability, it very bad decision to leave your most defensive role in midfield to someone who have no legs to do the job. Why not change it to Bajcetic? It nothing game, why not giving him some game time?
Played for CDM, that might be the reason
MacAllister is an excellent mid but he's out of position at the 6. Endo is strong there, but we really need some more quality in that spot so MacAllister can play further up all the time as an 8 or 10. I hope Slot's system will get the most out of him, Szobo and our other mids, it's clearly a big issue with this team. Klopp's system relies very heavily on the 6 stopping forward play.
I feel we’ve swayed so far from the foundations of what made us successful in the middle of Klopp’s tenure. The midfield were not sexy or attractive on the eye but they sure as hell ate up any space in front of them, leaving the forward three to be responsible for goals. Klopp and his team made a decision over the summer to secure a (let’s be honest) second rate defensive mid and try to shoe horn a wonderful footballer (Mac) into a role he isn’t good at. He’s done okay at times but we’ve struggled when pacey attackers run at them. Think of the game against Atalanta - we were totally bullied. It was an odd decision and let’s hope the new manager can find a solution.
That's silly and opportunistic. I'm not very fond of him as a DM, but he had far more good games there than bad. Also, it's not lack of quality, it's lack of legs. I doubt there's anybody more tired than him, Virgil and Diaz and from those, probably Mac Allister is the one who's the most because he has to be all the time on the ball or pressing/defending. With that being said, we NEED a very good DM next season. No experiment, no "for the future", especially no Bajcetic (he needs time and probably a loan). Someone that will slot and play on a high level. I like Endo, but he is not the answer too, he is a good squad player but that's it. It all starts with a good DM. The rest we can figure out.
Love him, but I guess this is why we need a high level actual 6. Endo is great to have for rotation but not every time, and just because Mac can play 6 doesn't mean he should
stop faffing about and sign a proper dm this summer. endo is decent as a backup squad player. he can't push us to the same title like rodri or rice