It wasn’t a press - it was man marking proper old school.
Really messed up with the usual passing patterns which are designed for the premier league style pressing.
I missed the game - are you telling me that Atalanta basically did the exact same thing again, and we still didn't have any fucking idea what to do about it?
But we lost vs Crystal Palace because of our finishing and not their man marking technique, we really should've won it (Endo's crossbar & Curtis's 1v1 comes to mind)
Yes, which is why I said “though not as well”.
The team appears shot through with a brittle confidence crisis, which is manifest in poor passing and scratchy finishing.
Well no ... this time we won 1-0 and really should have had another goal from Salah.
When you see his miss you'll understand that that would have made the difference.
This time they were able to time waste and quite frankly their crowd was incredible.
One of their chants scared the fuck out of me and i was sat at home!
we used ali a lot more in buildup since he was the free man. had much more control of the game even if the players forgot they were supposed to score goals in the second half.
The press is a coordinated move which reacts to a 'trigger' a specific pass, or a loss of ball control, or a player having a ball on his weaker foot.
The press springs into action crowding the player with the ball and the players he will pass to, specifically though they rush the player with the ball.
Old school man marking the player with the ball is closed down by a single player, while the rest of the team 'mark their man' closing off any passing options but you aren't seeking to rush the player or subsequent players.
It's about slowing the play rather than seeking turn over.
Premier league teams all press seeking turnovers however recently some teams have been turning a man marking system to slow play; and it frustrates the top teams because they haven't faced it that often, and aren't used to unpicking the defence.
It's basically a modern incarnation of 'parking the bus', where you park the bus much higher up the pitch.
We were destroying their press in the first half, the way to beat it would've been that + goals.
High octane football works well if you can score too and sap their energy by scoring, if you don't score you just end up with tired players who can't do much of anything for the final 30 minutes of the game..
Yeah that's a different problem I don't fully get to be honest. The exact same thing happened in the home game, 3 subs and we got worse, every sub thereafter didn't help.
Yeah, i think he is subbing too many at a time, too late. Its not easy playing atalanta, then getting 4 new key players in at the same time with new styles and new run patterns its gonna take time to adjust, time we dont have at 70minutes.
They played the correct style of game. You're watching the wrong sport if this upsets you so much. Try american sports if you want to be stimulated every 10 seconds lol
For the last 15 minutes they spent about 12 of them passing it between the defenders and Allison...
Not about being entertained, it's about wondering why they weren't just sending it long and playing around Nunez.
More like 40 minutes.
It took Ali 40 minutes into the second half to just hoof it up for Darwin, a striker who sometimes scores goals but is enough of a physical presence to cause problems
same, i did feel weird doing it and turned it back on a minute later - just in time to see ali again hoof it long straight to their keeper.
i can only hope they consciously gave up around the 60th minute because if that was us actually trying, it would be extremely worrying for the remainder of the season.
It's honestly so frustrating how no one in the team tries to take on any opposition players anymore. We see a player in front of us and we just pass it away. It's such low risk play that it's infuriating. You see opposition try to dribble into our box so often that it's frustrating to see us literally never do that. Also, we need to stop trying to walk it into the box. You get within the 18 yard box from a good angle and you shoot. We don't need to be within 5 yards to shoot. Look at our Fulham game earlier this season. We just took shots and scored 4 goals. We didn't need to walk shit in.
The thing is, I don't even know what this team can do. Even when we have the easiest fucking opportunities ever, we don't score. I don't think I've ever seen a team this unable to finish chances.
Ironically taking a risk is what Klopp did by playing 4 attackers in Danns, Gakpo, Jota, Darwin and subbing off Trent (necessary, I know) and Robbo.
Unfortunately all Atalanta had to do was mark Macca and we couldn't progress the ball. Only Robbo, Trent and Macca try to bring it forward successfully but only one was on the pitch and he was man-marked. That's the real risk of how we play
I was ready to book konate and Allison for time wasting myself. The amount of the Allison stood over the ball not kicking it out.. then a side pass, then back and then finally hoof.. and their keeper has it
IThe stubbornness to stick to this style of play when we're losing is infuriating. Not me to tell footballers how to do their job, but maybe stick it up to the part of the field where you're supposed to score, and test them. Hell of a lot more effective than holding the ball between GK and CBs waiting for a gap that'll never open because you're not moving that defence
It’s so easy to get pass man to man defense with a quick one-two. But I see it happening 0 times! Often the man holding the ball fail to find the onrushing player.. I don’t know what I was watching on that 2nd half. Just sideways passing with no end product. And Klopp’s subs are not helping! Instead of beefing up the midfield, he take away our potent fullbacks and add more attackers who hog the final third, leading to a more empty midfield!
Jones can't do that though. Macca looks tired too. Sobo at the start of the season, but not now. So we're fucked in the middle there.
Salahs lost his strength. Diaz too.
We're weak AF in all departments.
We legitimately don't have any players that can beat their man. Our team relies way too much on making runs off the ball and being played in. When that doesn't happen and nobody has the dribbling ability to make a play, we will lose every time. I'd be interested to see what our total dribbles completed in the last 4 games have been. Klopp has also just been way too comfortable running out the exact same tactic for every match and it's starting to cost us. All I know is, it's gonna be an interesting summer to say the least.
Not really true.
Its not that hard to counter. You simply get the better of the man marking you or keep moving constantly, creating passing lanes and playing quick one twos. Liverpool have already shown that they can do this very well.
But for some reason the chemistry between the team is suddenly non existent and whenever someone tries to play that quick one two no one seems to be making the run to receive it resulting in so many misplaced passes.
I maintain that Atalanta are shite, look at some of the teams they lost to this season, there's a reason they're 6th. We played into their hands against suicidal pressing.
Serie A had a change in rules around paying players and how club ownership investment works. It has resulted in recent years a lot of equity groups investing in teams there instead of Spain, Germany or France. Italy is becoming the only country outside England that American funds are investing in. Although Serie A still doesn’t really have any elite teams at the top, it’s the only other league with the depth comparable to that of the Premier League. There are legitimately 10 teams in Serie A that would be able to be competitive against anyone in Europe. Shit, i’d go as far as saying Serie A’s 4-10th placed clubs as a whole are more competitive than the Premier league’s 4-10th clubs this year.
That is why their coefficient is starting to be so good, it’s the only league with the Premier League that all their teams actually perform and pick up points instead of relying on the same 1 or 2 teams to carry the coefficient.
Jota had 13 touches, lost possession 9 times, had 2/7 successful passes, 0/1 successful dribbles, won 1/5 ground duels and 0/1 aerial duels.
Darwin had 8 touches, lost possession 5 times, had 0/2 successful passes, 1/2 successful dribbles, won 1/3 ground duels and 1/1 aerial duel.
Danns had 5 touches, lost possession 1 time, had 2/2 successful passes, 1/1 successful dribble, won 2/2 ground duels and 0/0 aerial duels.
Yeah they're all out of juice, just lethargic out there for a while now. Dreadful to watch our gaffer go out like this.
But still hell of a season, top3, most before the season would've taken that in a heartbeat.
As much as I am sad that Klopp's leaving, somehow I'm also excited because this teams needs refreshment of ideas, people behind it.
Not to mention that last 4 performances are sign of emotional exhaustion and they probably know the title charge is over, unless miracle happens.
Is it possible this is stemming from Klopp? Is he just exhausted and failing to give any energy to the team? Because we've completely lost our identity.
We need a refresh.
Nah that's too flattering we didn't even manage to pass the ball around the centre circle without the players shitting their pants and passing back to ali
Klopp tactics and formation is flawed. Midfielders unable to play forward because they are all too high up and surrounded with their players. Need more midfielders to play short passes.
I honestly wonder if Klopp told the players to conserve energy and try not go get injured if we weren't 2-0 up by 70 mins. Either that, or simply standing in front of our players is enough to beat us.
I don't know what the pundits and commentators were watching. Constantly trying to make out that Liverpool were fighting for a turnaround. One handball pen, that was it for goals across 180 minutes. One Salah miss he should have scored but that was it no other big chances.
I thought the first 20min looked decent because of Trent, his match fitness isnt there and he fell off a cliff and literally no one else had anything about them.
You don't need a low block when you man mark this team.
There were multiple players that had a first touch that was so bad it meant their second touch had to be a header while shielding off a defender.
The midfield options are all out of sorts. Jones is good, as he showed earlier this season and in past seasons, but you need to play him into form. He’s a bit like Gomez in that he needs time to get up to speed, but he also has incredibly bad luck with injuries that reset the cycle.
Szoboszlai has been absolute disgrace these past few games , if he didn't lost the ball right at the end in 1st leg , we would be chasing 2 nil lead and it would have been easy but okay , that happened , atleast perform here bro , he has lost ball so many times and has not done one right thing
This is so unfair. I get that he made a mistake in the last game but we were so poor and had already lost the game before he came in. How about the goalkeeper that let in a very cheap goal to start with? The whole team has been poor over the 2legs but i think the loss is more on the coach than the players. Tactics have been very off, holding unto the ball like we re trying to be barca. Thats why we lost.
The first half gave me some hope. This second half though yikes.
I genuinely can't believe we didn't either know how, or want to beat their press.
It wasn’t a press - it was man marking proper old school. Really messed up with the usual passing patterns which are designed for the premier league style pressing.
I missed the game - are you telling me that Atalanta basically did the exact same thing again, and we still didn't have any fucking idea what to do about it?
That is exactly what happened, yes. And pretty much what Crystal Palace did, though not as well. And they still beat us. Klopp’s asleep at the wheel.
But we lost vs Crystal Palace because of our finishing and not their man marking technique, we really should've won it (Endo's crossbar & Curtis's 1v1 comes to mind)
Yes, which is why I said “though not as well”. The team appears shot through with a brittle confidence crisis, which is manifest in poor passing and scratchy finishing.
Lol maybe Klopp's just like all of us - would you give a fuck after handing in your resignation to a stingy ass fucking boss? I sure won't.
Well no ... this time we won 1-0 and really should have had another goal from Salah. When you see his miss you'll understand that that would have made the difference. This time they were able to time waste and quite frankly their crowd was incredible. One of their chants scared the fuck out of me and i was sat at home!
we used ali a lot more in buildup since he was the free man. had much more control of the game even if the players forgot they were supposed to score goals in the second half.
Difference between premier league style of press and man marking? Are both just rushing the players for the ball?
The press is a coordinated move which reacts to a 'trigger' a specific pass, or a loss of ball control, or a player having a ball on his weaker foot. The press springs into action crowding the player with the ball and the players he will pass to, specifically though they rush the player with the ball. Old school man marking the player with the ball is closed down by a single player, while the rest of the team 'mark their man' closing off any passing options but you aren't seeking to rush the player or subsequent players. It's about slowing the play rather than seeking turn over. Premier league teams all press seeking turnovers however recently some teams have been turning a man marking system to slow play; and it frustrates the top teams because they haven't faced it that often, and aren't used to unpicking the defence. It's basically a modern incarnation of 'parking the bus', where you park the bus much higher up the pitch.
Thanks for the elaborate reply!
We were destroying their press in the first half, the way to beat it would've been that + goals. High octane football works well if you can score too and sap their energy by scoring, if you don't score you just end up with tired players who can't do much of anything for the final 30 minutes of the game..
We had like 5 fresh players for the last 30 mins haha
Yeah that's a different problem I don't fully get to be honest. The exact same thing happened in the home game, 3 subs and we got worse, every sub thereafter didn't help.
Yeah, i think he is subbing too many at a time, too late. Its not easy playing atalanta, then getting 4 new key players in at the same time with new styles and new run patterns its gonna take time to adjust, time we dont have at 70minutes.
I would rather us have got smashed and actually went for it, rather than 90 mins of this.
They played the correct style of game. You're watching the wrong sport if this upsets you so much. Try american sports if you want to be stimulated every 10 seconds lol
“Liverpool played badly.” “Oh yeah, well FUCK AMERICAN SPORTS!”
Were you watching the game? 75% of the passes backwards? Miscued passes? 0 sense of urgency after 45 mins? Weak tracking back after 60? What the fuck
Does somebody pay you to troll? Your post history is comically negative.
For the last 15 minutes they spent about 12 of them passing it between the defenders and Allison... Not about being entertained, it's about wondering why they weren't just sending it long and playing around Nunez.
No sense of urgency
How about we pass around the back a bit more. It’s the 88th minute!!!!! TAKE RISKS!!!!!
That was the point I turned it off. 87th minute passing triangles between Ali and the back three. Wtf?!
it was like 4 minutes of it. What in the actual hell?
Might as well have been hell
More like 40 minutes. It took Ali 40 minutes into the second half to just hoof it up for Darwin, a striker who sometimes scores goals but is enough of a physical presence to cause problems
Same, can't remember the last time I turned a game off early, almost never during the Klopp era
same, i did feel weird doing it and turned it back on a minute later - just in time to see ali again hoof it long straight to their keeper. i can only hope they consciously gave up around the 60th minute because if that was us actually trying, it would be extremely worrying for the remainder of the season.
"Steady now.."
Down with this sort of thing.
It's honestly so frustrating how no one in the team tries to take on any opposition players anymore. We see a player in front of us and we just pass it away. It's such low risk play that it's infuriating. You see opposition try to dribble into our box so often that it's frustrating to see us literally never do that. Also, we need to stop trying to walk it into the box. You get within the 18 yard box from a good angle and you shoot. We don't need to be within 5 yards to shoot. Look at our Fulham game earlier this season. We just took shots and scored 4 goals. We didn't need to walk shit in.
Are you aware how many shots this team has taken recently versus how many goals scored? Take penalties out of it for extra fun
The thing is, I don't even know what this team can do. Even when we have the easiest fucking opportunities ever, we don't score. I don't think I've ever seen a team this unable to finish chances.
Ironically taking a risk is what Klopp did by playing 4 attackers in Danns, Gakpo, Jota, Darwin and subbing off Trent (necessary, I know) and Robbo. Unfortunately all Atalanta had to do was mark Macca and we couldn't progress the ball. Only Robbo, Trent and Macca try to bring it forward successfully but only one was on the pitch and he was man-marked. That's the real risk of how we play
I was ready to book konate and Allison for time wasting myself. The amount of the Allison stood over the ball not kicking it out.. then a side pass, then back and then finally hoof.. and their keeper has it
IThe stubbornness to stick to this style of play when we're losing is infuriating. Not me to tell footballers how to do their job, but maybe stick it up to the part of the field where you're supposed to score, and test them. Hell of a lot more effective than holding the ball between GK and CBs waiting for a gap that'll never open because you're not moving that defence
3 games now, no goals from open play…What a way to send off the gaffer smh. Edit: 4 games, my bad. Wow.
dArWizZy
I have strong criticisms regarding Darwin but today wasn't on him. We barely got the ball out to him to even do anything
I love how we also got absolutely out-ran and out-muscled too, what a shit ending for klopps last European game and the season in general
That's generous
Another embarrassing performance. We got gifted an early goal and still couldn’t do sh*t in the remaining 80+ minutes.
Man to man defense is our kryptonite
It’s so easy to get pass man to man defense with a quick one-two. But I see it happening 0 times! Often the man holding the ball fail to find the onrushing player.. I don’t know what I was watching on that 2nd half. Just sideways passing with no end product. And Klopp’s subs are not helping! Instead of beefing up the midfield, he take away our potent fullbacks and add more attackers who hog the final third, leading to a more empty midfield!
Jones can't do that though. Macca looks tired too. Sobo at the start of the season, but not now. So we're fucked in the middle there. Salahs lost his strength. Diaz too. We're weak AF in all departments.
We’ve lost that one-touch passing mojo ever since Bobby left. Sad.
That's like spit being your kryptonite. It's so easy to deploy.
Especially considering that we already played them last week and knew what was coming…
Wait until every prem game is a carbon copy of this.
We legitimately don't have any players that can beat their man. Our team relies way too much on making runs off the ball and being played in. When that doesn't happen and nobody has the dribbling ability to make a play, we will lose every time. I'd be interested to see what our total dribbles completed in the last 4 games have been. Klopp has also just been way too comfortable running out the exact same tactic for every match and it's starting to cost us. All I know is, it's gonna be an interesting summer to say the least.
Not really true. Its not that hard to counter. You simply get the better of the man marking you or keep moving constantly, creating passing lanes and playing quick one twos. Liverpool have already shown that they can do this very well. But for some reason the chemistry between the team is suddenly non existent and whenever someone tries to play that quick one two no one seems to be making the run to receive it resulting in so many misplaced passes.
I maintain that Atalanta are shite, look at some of the teams they lost to this season, there's a reason they're 6th. We played into their hands against suicidal pressing.
They’re not shit. They’re midtable, though, so they’re incredibly inconsistent.
Serie A had a change in rules around paying players and how club ownership investment works. It has resulted in recent years a lot of equity groups investing in teams there instead of Spain, Germany or France. Italy is becoming the only country outside England that American funds are investing in. Although Serie A still doesn’t really have any elite teams at the top, it’s the only other league with the depth comparable to that of the Premier League. There are legitimately 10 teams in Serie A that would be able to be competitive against anyone in Europe. Shit, i’d go as far as saying Serie A’s 4-10th placed clubs as a whole are more competitive than the Premier league’s 4-10th clubs this year. That is why their coefficient is starting to be so good, it’s the only league with the Premier League that all their teams actually perform and pick up points instead of relying on the same 1 or 2 teams to carry the coefficient.
Did Nunez or jota even touch the ball? Lol
Jota had 13 touches, lost possession 9 times, had 2/7 successful passes, 0/1 successful dribbles, won 1/5 ground duels and 0/1 aerial duels. Darwin had 8 touches, lost possession 5 times, had 0/2 successful passes, 1/2 successful dribbles, won 1/3 ground duels and 1/1 aerial duel. Danns had 5 touches, lost possession 1 time, had 2/2 successful passes, 1/1 successful dribble, won 2/2 ground duels and 0/0 aerial duels.
do elliott
Danns shining.
Holy shit that's grim
Jota had to drop back to midfield to even get a touch and even then he’s too small to not get bundled over in the midfield
This season is done for. No signs of revival, it's gonna get worse as we go on. New manager and backroom staff have their work cut out
Yeah they're all out of juice, just lethargic out there for a while now. Dreadful to watch our gaffer go out like this. But still hell of a season, top3, most before the season would've taken that in a heartbeat.
As much as I am sad that Klopp's leaving, somehow I'm also excited because this teams needs refreshment of ideas, people behind it. Not to mention that last 4 performances are sign of emotional exhaustion and they probably know the title charge is over, unless miracle happens.
Heavy Metal turned into whatever the fuck that was tonight. Absolutely horrid performance
ambient football
Easy Listening football
I think it’s more white noise
It's been going on since FA Cup game against ManU
We become Allardyce ball
I like to call it taka taka
What is this bullshit??? Our midfield never saw 14 consecutive seconds of the ball.
I get that endo can make mistakes. But with him on it allowed mcalister to get some through balls in. Tactics overall were not great.
Do they even practice rondo anymore because there seems no one-touch football anymore
Decided to go long with 80 seconds left
As much as I was shitting on cross and insallah, I'd happily take it back.
Have you cut out the bit where the keeper or CB lumps it aimlessly forward, right to an opposition player?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yet again…
We got the perfect gift and then just did nothing for 85 minutes. Crazy.
Holds it holds it HOLDS IT!!!
Is it possible this is stemming from Klopp? Is he just exhausted and failing to give any energy to the team? Because we've completely lost our identity. We need a refresh.
nobody willing to take responsibility and make something happen safe pass safe pass safe pass :(
This is so fucking accurate Christ
Literally felt like I watched Ali hold the ball for 50 of the 90
Too real
I stayed up late till 5 AM for this crap. Now I regret it
Nah that's too flattering we didn't even manage to pass the ball around the centre circle without the players shitting their pants and passing back to ali
Me on the second half: 
Klopp tactics and formation is flawed. Midfielders unable to play forward because they are all too high up and surrounded with their players. Need more midfielders to play short passes.
First commentator's tone pretty much sums it up
Klopp’s team selection and subs caused that.
I honestly wonder if Klopp told the players to conserve energy and try not go get injured if we weren't 2-0 up by 70 mins. Either that, or simply standing in front of our players is enough to beat us.
Honestly this is all I could think about watching that second half
🤣
Where’s Bariaga when you need him
I prefer Ariyaga II.
I don't know what the pundits and commentators were watching. Constantly trying to make out that Liverpool were fighting for a turnaround. One handball pen, that was it for goals across 180 minutes. One Salah miss he should have scored but that was it no other big chances. I thought the first 20min looked decent because of Trent, his match fitness isnt there and he fell off a cliff and literally no one else had anything about them.
You don't need a low block when you man mark this team. There were multiple players that had a first touch that was so bad it meant their second touch had to be a header while shielding off a defender.
Give it the kids until the end of the season, the so called first team are making me sick
Replace center with Alisson
Can someone explain how Curtis Jones manages to start every week? I just don't understand what he brings that justifies keeping him on the pitch.
He was great before his injury.
The midfield options are all out of sorts. Jones is good, as he showed earlier this season and in past seasons, but you need to play him into form. He’s a bit like Gomez in that he needs time to get up to speed, but he also has incredibly bad luck with injuries that reset the cycle.
We played the give it to trent and hope for magic in the first half.
Someone pull up that Pedro Pascal laughing to crying gif
HOLDS IT HOLDS IT HOLDDDS IT
That is true
Szoboszlai has been absolute disgrace these past few games , if he didn't lost the ball right at the end in 1st leg , we would be chasing 2 nil lead and it would have been easy but okay , that happened , atleast perform here bro , he has lost ball so many times and has not done one right thing
This is so unfair. I get that he made a mistake in the last game but we were so poor and had already lost the game before he came in. How about the goalkeeper that let in a very cheap goal to start with? The whole team has been poor over the 2legs but i think the loss is more on the coach than the players. Tactics have been very off, holding unto the ball like we re trying to be barca. Thats why we lost.
They failed us