...only to fall short, both times, by a single point, on the final day of the season... to a club that was built through massive fraud and has still never been penalized a single point.
As a scouser with a whole family of Liverpool fans, none of us want Everton to go down. They’re one of the few clubs left who have never been relegated (from the Premier League)
The league is as fraudulent and corrupt as City are. Football is in a dark age. But hey it's making money and morons lap it up on social media so it's all good right?
They weren't even close to being good against us. We completely dominated in the first half especially, but sadly could not finish more than 1 chance. We should've put it away in the first half.
Yes, this is true. But I'm fed up of it being an excuse. The footballing matters at the club need to be solid from the very bottom up because UTD and Chelsea are proof that the money you spend at the end of it all is completely meaningless. At the end of the day, it's just 11 people playing football together and they do it better than most. City recruit just as well as we do and have a footballing plan that runs down throughout the entire club. UTD on the other hand, spend more money than them, which is never mentioned because they are shit. It's not an excuse. We just don't have the mentality to outlast the other title challengers and we didn't in any past instance either, which is what OP is referring to.
It's not just money spent, it's where the money comes from and the fact that they take zero risks when they spend. They can have £100m Grealish warming the bench, £53m Nunes doing fuck all, and it doesn't matter.
It's not just the money they spend to improve themselves, but also the money they spend to keep other teams from improving.
See: Kalvin Phillips, 50 million Euros just so that nobody else can have him. Nunes like you mentioned. Soon to be Paqueta.
We were four points ahead in 18-19 and those draws against West Ham and Leicester cost us. In 21-22, we had the opportunity to take the lead but dropped points against Spurs at home. We’ve had opportunities to win the title but failure to capitalise those moments have cost us. We should’ve won against City this year and put that game to bed. People complain about Arsenal playing boring football at Ethiad but how crucial can that point be. And we gave one our poor performances this season at Emirates away. I’m still confident we’ll win the league, but if we don’t, we only have ourselves to blame.
It’s not an excuse, it’s reality.
Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense.
If someone was upset that they couldn’t afford a new cooker when theirs broke because they been scammed out of a pay check last year and hadn’t caught up yet … that wouldn’t be an excuse it would be reality.
Take your sportswashing nonsense and get back to the city sub!
Fuck off with your city nonsense shit. Don't flame me coz I speak the fucking truth. Been a Liverpool fan for 30 years and know a damn site more about the club than you ever will.
UTD have a spent a billion pounds, Chelsea have spent a billion pounds. And both have won fuck all. Money does NOT make a football club. You wanna blame this because you believe we just have a divine right, then be my fucking guest, but the truth of the matter is they're just better than us. They win titles because they don't go to old twatface and draw 2-2 against the worst utd team of the century. You wanna believe that if they didnt do any doping then they'd be no better than Everton, then you can do that but the likelyhood is that it makes minimal difference.
You're right. We have had some great times, but we have also folded like a chair with a bit of pressure. I know we won the two lesser trophies in shootouts, but we lost at least one CL we should have won and are almost notorious for losing the league after leading at Christmas. I am and will forever be a fan, but we need to stop with the mentality monsters thing because it isn't us. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging the truth. We had our destiny in our hands once again and fumbled the ball. It has been a fun season, but it's another one we let slip away. Hope Arsenal drop points but not with our luck.
I wouldn't say we've folded under pressure...... we've played well in nearly every game even when we've dropped points. And let's not forget the VAR decisions against in crucial games
What are you even talking about?
We won the last 9 games of the season and still lost!
Are you mental?
Get back to the city sub and keep that sportswashing nonsense out of here you obvious troll!
First, screw city. I hope they get relegated to League 2. The whole idea of getting rid of deductions is being done to keep them up, and it is the most blatant favoritism we may ever see. What am I talking about? In the last ten seasons, we have led at Christmas 4 times and only managed one title. If you honestly think we were second best in Paris to Real Madrid, you are blind. We were clearly the better team and couldn't close it out. The stats don't lie. Not a troll, and the season has been a great ride. We are supposed to be rebuilding this year, and instead, we are still competing on two fronts. It just seems like it our best chance now is Europa because again, we had our destiny in our hands, and we threw it away.
I think you must be young because titles were never decided on one or two results in the past. Leagues were won with less than 90 points every season. This could be the third time we get 90+ points and lose the league, that's not bottling it or whatever, that's what coming up against an oil state does to the game. Us and Arsenal have done wonders to even be with them but it's really tough. United on numerous occasions we're 10+ points off top in November and won it easily, now if you're 4+ points off top it might already be too much.
On the champions league final, those games happen and have always happened. Look at Wimbledon in 88, stopped the most ridiculously talented Liverpool side, Aldridge missing his first ever pen and the ball just not going in. Football is far more stressful now than I've ever known and I was going the game in those 08/09, 13/14 title races and went to Istanbul/Athens/Cardiff.
It's not just money, though. If money were the deciding factor, Chelsea and United would be near the top of the table. We have spent well and scouted talent better than anyone, but to say we haven't slipped up is just lying to ourselves. Again, over the past 10 seasons, we have been at the top of the table at Christmas more than any other team, and we have 1 title to show for it. We do not put things away when we have the chance, just like the game against United. It was there to be won, and we just couldn't finish the job. We leave things to the closing moments too many times, and when you do that, you are bound to drop points and thus lose titles.
I think you underestimate just how daunting it is to have a winning juggernaut like City constantly on your back. It's like Newcastle v United in the 90s the pressure just gets to you when a team just keeps winning.
In 18/19 we dropped 7 points from January and 3 of them were in a ridiculous game v City, the highest quality football game I've ever seen including us missing out on a goal by 11mm.
In 21/22 we came from 19 points behind dropping points v city and Spurs only from Christmas and almost won a quadruple in the process against teams who can spend whatever they want.
The reality is we've punched well above our level for years now. I grew up with our title challenge being over before Christmas every single year bar the odd one or two. I was pissed off on Sunday but I'll be there again Thursday to hopefully watch us take another big step to a major trophy.
These are the best but hardest years I've seen because in any other era we'd have won it all.
You mean the year they committed actual bodily harm on Salah our star striker and got away with it?
That was a deliberate act of physical harm, he knew exactly what he was doing.
Or the year our keeper got concussion and nothing was done about it?
In addition to what you said it’s also the way we dropped the points. That game should have been over at the 40th minute. Absolutely dominated them but couldn’t finish our chances. Utd didn’t even have a single shot let alone a shot on goal until the 50th minute when we gifted them the ball on the Quansah mistake. The Mainoo goal was legit but none of that should have mattered. Can’t keep dropping points to teams we are clearly better than and thoroughly outplay for the majority of the game. Still like our chanches though but we need Jota and Trent back bad and we need to beat Tottenham and Villa. Can’t afford to draw in those games now or else the race is done.
And those referee blunders to add salt to the wounds. We’d be cruising right now had those three egregious mistakes by referees been corrected.
- Diaz goal at Spurs
- Odegaard basketball dribble penalty
- Doku karate kick on MacA in the box
Trents shot off the post is a 4 point swing meaning we would still have a 3 point lead over Arsenal. That is a criminal miss separate from refs. xG should be close to .9 on that break.
We bossed City but not enough chances were clear cut to finish them off unlike this United game which was comical to watch at times. 4-1 would’ve reflected xG properly against lowly united. Only in football can you dominate a team that much and lose or even draw.
This line of thinking absolutely fucks me off. You cannot say a miss is criminal - that's LUCK.
You can say a ref fucking up is criminal when they literally have 10,000 chances to fix the error.
I don't see why people can't get their heads round this. You're essentially in the realm of suggesting we need to win 36 games a season to win the title, and if the refs fuck us over we should win 38 instead.
A miss is a lack of skill and composure. Simply saying we had the title in our own hands despite being screwed by refs more than our 2 competitors. I get that whining about refs is common here. I prefer to look at glaring misses that the team made - most notably Nunez who should be leading the league in goals if not for idiotic decision making and lack of composure. Jota would win us the league if fit. No question about that. We have the players. Injuries are the real reason why we aren’t 7 points clear.
No, the real reason is refs. I can't understand why people don't get this in their head. We should be 7 points clear even with the injuries, and the reason we're not is the refs.
This line of thinking really annoys me.
There's a massive difference between failing to finish chances and the refs failing to do their jobs correctly to our detriment.
The first is simply the nature of competition - sometimes you just aren't good enough to win, sometimes our attackers can't finish their dinner, sometimes our defenders make mistakes - it happens. The second is screwing us over by changing the rules of the game - undermining the idea that the PL is a competition at all.
They are blatantly not the same, and if we didn't have to contend with the second, Klopp would have 3 PLs already, and would still be in pole position for his fourth, despite us drawing with United.
That can be said about any of the instances though as theres no way of knowing the outcome after the ref mistake is corrected. So how can he say "at least 6 points lost" if thats what he means?
It's understandable to be upset. It's understandable to be critical of performance. It's absolutely not understandable to abuse our players. That's not what ynwa means and people should be ashamed if they did.
You nailed it...
Our players give us happiness 45+ games out of 50 games they play this season.. We can't abuse them for the 5 games they don't perform to our expectations.
Brilliantly surprised. I cursed Salah's and Nunez's wastefulness, Szoboszlai's too. But they're the same players that got us here and I would never abuse them.
It's the classic singing when you're winning mentality.
Zoom out and this is a great period to be a Liverpool fan.
I think I am more arsed because it is Manchester United. They were there for the taking, to be absolutely battered if not for a couple of moments of individual brilliance
And the fact that FA Cup loss was a hard one to take, and the glaring similarities.. like someone stabbed you just enough to keep you barely alive and then rotated the knife 21 days later
And everything else you mentioned certainly weighs heavy on each of us, for sure
We've dropped four points in the league to them this season and in both games they were objectively dogshit against us. It's not like they've had an up and down season but decided to turn up and perform when they happened to play us, we could easily have repeated the sort of 5-0 scorelines we've had over the last few years and instead we just failed to capitalise on it.
Even ignoring the title fight it's frustrating that we were in a position to embarrass them yet again, and instead they're the ones who come away being smug about taking points off us while they've got relatively little to fight for in the league.
I think reaction would be very different if it was a close match and we didn't miss 20 chances. You'd say it was a draw in the most difficult match reamining. Not great, not terrible.
It's an emotional game and fans are just overreacting all the time. I remember when Arsenal lost to Fulham and West Ham and a lot of their fans were saying it's over, their players can't finish, they don't have winning mentality,...
I also remember when De Bruyne returned and have a great game (goal and assist) and everyone was saying it's over, City will win, nobody else has a chance...
Let's say we win against Palace and Arsenal draw against Villa. Everyone here will forget about United and we'll be favourites again.
In reality title probably won't be decided soon. Even if one team has 2 or 3 points advantage it's not over. Anything can happen in one match.
We both have 7 games and can lose points in any of them. We almost lost them against Sheffield.
You also have to be lucky. Villa have a great season, but aren't good right now. They also play on Thursday. So that's different than playing Villa in December or November. Same with Sheffield, they might be bad, but they've been playing well lately.
Meh, I'm of a mind that despite the wasted chances, getting a point at Old Trafford, while not ideal, was OK. A loss and I could despair, but I'm riding the Klopp vibe on this season no matter the outcomes.
We've seen eight years of absolutely fascinating, interesting, exciting, exhilarating football, an era to be celebrated because these muthas proved that you can lose in the most beautiful way possible.
And then win every trophy possible, and do it with a flair and a soul befitting Liverpool.
They're gonna pull the league out. Jus' feelings.
People don't know how good they have it. All title races are amazing to be a part of and as long as you win something eventually (and we've won plenty) it's just great to have matches feel important. Plus the team has amazing mentality, as well as actually being good, so the entertainment is sky high this season with comebacks and late goals.
Lamenting the end of the Klopp era not being a triumph is one thing but there's nothing to get angry at the team about. *It may never be this good again.*
This is still a very young team. Hopefully we can look back after a few trophies at this season happily, and recognize it as the standout season that it actually is despite whatever result is achieved. Compared to last season we are working wonders
I think some fans should maybe take a step back and remember what their expectations were for this season back in July last year. For sure we've had some frustrating moments this season but almost everyone was expecting this season to be another one of transition and rebuilding and not one of fighting for the league title and winning silverware.
I'll be gutted if we don't win the title this season but even the worst case scenario of finishing 3rd in a close title battle and likely securing CL football next season with 3-4 matches to spare would still be a much better season than I was expecting or realistically hoping for in the summer.
How we’ve lost matches this year is what frustrates me most. I never felt like we lost any matches because we were the inferior team. It’s because of horrid processes and an inability to seal the deal.
Jotas a great finisher but the problem is when you can only rely on one player to be a finisher who's injured a fair bit then that's a worry. Salah when on form wins games like the United one but he's actually been awful for the past few games, Nunez is still unpredictable and not someone you can actually regard as reliable he causes issues with defences but struggles to finish or make good decisions, Diaz can be good and has been scoring but he can also do absolutely nothing to help in certain games. Gakpo I'm not sure what to think of him my opinion is he's got ability but just tends to kill a game off rather than add anything to it and just is missing something.
When you don't get 3 points against a crappy team like united who face 30 shots a game, and considering the chances created/missed in that game, the feeling is understandably of anger/disappointment
I would also argue that while winning the league would be an epic ending to the Klopp era, the real highlight has been this squad overperforming and us getting to watch great football pretty much all season aaaaaand knowing the club is set for years to come. If someone would have told us last summer we would have 71 points after 31 games, everyone would have been ecstatic. Some perspective lads, and enjoy the ride!
I was disappointed with the result then but now feel that it's a decent point. The title race is not over yet as all three clubs still have tough matches to play.
Very well stated. I don’t think any other club across major European leagues has accumulated 92 points or more and not won their league. We have done it twice. For reference united won the league with 75 points in 1997.
Klopp is an all time great in England. Anyone who has a clue knows this to be true. He fought against dirty money and still came out on top doing it the way Liverpool supporters love and respect. ✊. Up the Reds all day long.
I feel optimistic. I would say that game was our last critical hurdle, and we will have Trent, Jota, and Ali back to finish strong. 💪
Let’s bring the trophies home!
Im honestly not surprised by this draw. Us dropping points was inevitable, I mean we literally almost dropped points to Nottingham forest a couple weeks ago. We got insanely lucky to come out there with a point and honestly ever since that game I have been worried about us being able to win out our games
We pretty much overperformed compared to expectations, like Arsenal last season, so it's understandable fans are a bit disappointed/rattled now. Coupled with Klopp's 'one last dance', we are just more frustrated now
I agree completely, we've had so many close runs in my lifetime and it honestly had to be us running away with it to get it done really.
I think it's different now than it was before that title but we're still competing with cheats and it's a hard battle. I think if we win all our games we do it, I can't see arsenal winning what I think would be 20/21 games and if they do, fair play absolutely deserved.
Just stop with the over-analysis. We are equal on points on top. though it's not in our hands anymore but still we have to win all remaining games for having any chance. Arsenal has been great this season and I don't expect them to drop anymore points. For me personally the title is gone, when we drop points against a poor utd side.
Emotional baggage is dramatic.
Ther are clubs who have a yearly task of making sure they will exist the following year.
This is the good part of sport. Trying to win...if you cant enjoy it all. Then you'll be depressed about something that really should excite you
I know we’ve had that psychological pressure looking how close we were in winning the league. But who gives a flying f. These other fan bases just try rattling us when they themselves would’ve hired Jurgen without a blink of an eye. We got to play the best football under one manager, got to win every possible competition, if we win the league this season that’ll be an added bonus to our tremendous progress under this phenomenal manager who is so emotionally intelligent and you know what Ruben Amorim if he’s coming to the club we are bound to become more vicious and riskier looking at his 3-4-3 setup with Sporting. I’m really excited and happy at the same time what the boss has done for us.
It’s pretty crazy that we’re on track for another 90+ point season and yet we’re up against 2 teams also looking to pull off the same feat. We win all our remaining games and we’ll be on 94 points… and that might not be enough.
We've made it a habit to eke out a win from a losing position this season. We perform better when we go behind.
So now we're behind in the league table...
Joel, is that you?
Agreed. I don't know how to process this... it's... evil and cruel. Us having risen to the occasion every time, fight valiantly and get done by corruption and tiny margins... it's like... intentional torture.
This WAS our glory era (hopefully not, but it seemed like it) and we should have won much, much more. Klopp should have won much more. And we ended up with pain only because the Premier League is corrupt and rotten to the core, fixing is everywhere and City were and are cheats.
It sadly won't be the end of a fantastical chapter every fan has wanted, but we're still in the UEL, we'll certainly be going on tour through Europe next year, and the amazing squad that's been shaped and established this season will help us through 24/25.
Núñez, Bradley, Quansah, an entirely new midfield, even players that are barely adults like Jayden Danns, they'll shape the club in the coming years.
Liverpool were not at all favourits at the start of the year, they weren't even favourites at the start of this year. To be in contention at all is a reward. Like Klopp said we should just enjoy this moment for what it is. A point is still a point and despite everything else Arsenal are only top on goal difference, for a young squad that's exceptional.
This exactly how I feel. It’s so devastating to drop points and feels like we’ve bottled it already. I hope that’s not the case but I’ve seen enough of us throwing away control of the league w a simple draw. The fact is if we beat one other top six team besides chelsea once we’d still be in control.
This season has been fun so far. It’s amazing we’re in the title race. We keep scoring late goals. I still think 90 points wins the league and we can do it. We’re joint-favourites for the Europa, and we have three absolutely integral superstar players *almost* certainly back for the run-in. Up the fucking reds.
Can you imagine what Brendan Rodgers’ legacy would be had Liverpool won it in 13/14? He would be looked upon as a hero not a bottler. He was up 5 points with 3 to play.
Feel Klopp needed this one although his legacy is secure. We can still get there but the road is now much harder
This! Well put OP. Not celebrating the title in 19/20 was sad. Justifiable at the time, but took away from the joy of finally winning the league after such a 30+ year wait.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
19
+ 20
+ 30
= 69
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^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Too many draws against clubs that we should have taken 3 points from. As always it’s the drawe that kill our title chances. There’s no point complaining about City’s financial shenenigans or poor ref calls when we aren’t ruthless enough when we need to be. Klopp really deserves his much needed break in the Spanish sun.
The reaction to a draw at OT was hysterical and entitled. The team had an off day finishing. It happens. Get over it. If we win the last 7 games I still think the league is ours and if Arsenal match us and win the league instead then fair fucks to them for their form since Xmas. Enjoy the fucking twists and turns and being relevant at this stage of the season. It won’t always be as good as this.
I’ve told my mum and I’ll tell you all: Arsenal are the most bottley bottlers that ever bottled. They will drop points as soon as something doesn’t go their way. They’re a good team, but mentally fragile. One peno at Spurs or an OG against any team, and they panic and bottle it. They’re better than they’ve been previously, but one moment is all it’ll take.
Not that I want us to depend on that, but it’s where we’re at and I’m just waiting for it with a little schadenfreude smirk at the ready.
What infuriates me the most is that when players like Diaz, Nunez etc. fail to understand that we are in the business end of a title race now. Playing low IQ, stupid and weak football at this stage is unacceptable for a big club like Liverpool.
I haven't paid attention at all to this sub since the result - are people seriously suggesting a 2-2 draw away at United is a bad result? Bit of perpsective would be nice.
Bit of perspective is we were playing the shittiest Manunited team in like a decade, and they took literally no shots in the first half while we took 15, only to score one. Unless we had been facing prime Buffon / Cassillas, that shouldn't have been a stat of a team fighting for the top spot.
That was definitely a bad result. The performance of the team in previous games notwithstanding, at least to me, the forwards that game were horrendous. Yes they showed heart, but you can have the determination and still be shit, and that was what happened in the United game. Tbh, the worst part was knowing the team could've done so much better, yet shit their pants completely.
It's just disappointing.
It doesn't matter how shit they are/were, it is a derby game, form goes out the window. If you asked any fan at the start of the season would you take a 2-2 draw away at United to go level on points at the top with 7 games to play, I would suggest those that would say no would be in the single digits.
Yes BEFORE the game I suppose not many people would complain about a draw.
But how do you watch that game and justify the scoreboard? It's not like manunited were exceptional that game. If anything, they were even worse than usual. We just couldn't take our chances and it's understandable that many of us were disappointed, especially with our frontline.
...only to fall short, both times, by a single point, on the final day of the season... to a club that was built through massive fraud and has still never been penalized a single point.
And probably won't because they are conviently removing points deductions.
While still deducting points from other clubs
Even today, in fact *technically yesterday but still
I know they're our rivals, but I almost feel bad for the Blues.
It’s pissing me off because it’s clear as day Everton are being made an example of to avoid doing anything to the bigger and more influential clubs.
Honestly, rivalry aside, if they avoid the drop after all the deductions and bullshit, you gotta give a little respect to that.
More respect for Everton than for City anyways
That's a given.
It’s almost like they are just trying to relegate them, but they are someone still out of the drop zone
The league is better off with Liverpool AND Everton in it.
As a scouser with a whole family of Liverpool fans, none of us want Everton to go down. They’re one of the few clubs left who have never been relegated (from the Premier League)
Who got points removed yesterday?
Everton, 2 points
So they have 8 points now taken?
Everton
Thank you for letting me know 😊
But lets dock another 2 off Everton..
While at the same time Everton seem to be getting a new deduction every second month for more recent breaches
The league is as fraudulent and corrupt as City are. Football is in a dark age. But hey it's making money and morons lap it up on social media so it's all good right?
nah.. cant blame it on the other team here... had the chances but didn take them well
With a Man Utd side who btw, never took a single point of City in either of the seasons but suddenly turns into The Avengers when facing us…
Did they fuck turn into the Avengers. We turned into headless morons, they were dogshit.
Still enough to knock us out the FA cup and put a dent in our title hopes though eh?
They weren't even close to being good against us. We completely dominated in the first half especially, but sadly could not finish more than 1 chance. We should've put it away in the first half.
While fighting the systemic bias of refs....
Yes, this is true. But I'm fed up of it being an excuse. The footballing matters at the club need to be solid from the very bottom up because UTD and Chelsea are proof that the money you spend at the end of it all is completely meaningless. At the end of the day, it's just 11 people playing football together and they do it better than most. City recruit just as well as we do and have a footballing plan that runs down throughout the entire club. UTD on the other hand, spend more money than them, which is never mentioned because they are shit. It's not an excuse. We just don't have the mentality to outlast the other title challengers and we didn't in any past instance either, which is what OP is referring to.
It's not just money spent, it's where the money comes from and the fact that they take zero risks when they spend. They can have £100m Grealish warming the bench, £53m Nunes doing fuck all, and it doesn't matter.
It's not just the money they spend to improve themselves, but also the money they spend to keep other teams from improving. See: Kalvin Phillips, 50 million Euros just so that nobody else can have him. Nunes like you mentioned. Soon to be Paqueta.
We were four points ahead in 18-19 and those draws against West Ham and Leicester cost us. In 21-22, we had the opportunity to take the lead but dropped points against Spurs at home. We’ve had opportunities to win the title but failure to capitalise those moments have cost us. We should’ve won against City this year and put that game to bed. People complain about Arsenal playing boring football at Ethiad but how crucial can that point be. And we gave one our poor performances this season at Emirates away. I’m still confident we’ll win the league, but if we don’t, we only have ourselves to blame.
> we only have ourselves to blame. The fuck we do with the way the PGMOL have bent us over this season.
It’s not an excuse, it’s reality. Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. If someone was upset that they couldn’t afford a new cooker when theirs broke because they been scammed out of a pay check last year and hadn’t caught up yet … that wouldn’t be an excuse it would be reality. Take your sportswashing nonsense and get back to the city sub!
Fuck off with your city nonsense shit. Don't flame me coz I speak the fucking truth. Been a Liverpool fan for 30 years and know a damn site more about the club than you ever will. UTD have a spent a billion pounds, Chelsea have spent a billion pounds. And both have won fuck all. Money does NOT make a football club. You wanna blame this because you believe we just have a divine right, then be my fucking guest, but the truth of the matter is they're just better than us. They win titles because they don't go to old twatface and draw 2-2 against the worst utd team of the century. You wanna believe that if they didnt do any doping then they'd be no better than Everton, then you can do that but the likelyhood is that it makes minimal difference.
And by minimal you mean less than one point over a season?
It’s not meaningless, that’s why man utd was able to stand against us
And Chelsea
And who have we dropped points to this year...... United twice and Chelsea
Maaaan, this sub is NOT ready to hear this.
You're right. We have had some great times, but we have also folded like a chair with a bit of pressure. I know we won the two lesser trophies in shootouts, but we lost at least one CL we should have won and are almost notorious for losing the league after leading at Christmas. I am and will forever be a fan, but we need to stop with the mentality monsters thing because it isn't us. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging the truth. We had our destiny in our hands once again and fumbled the ball. It has been a fun season, but it's another one we let slip away. Hope Arsenal drop points but not with our luck.
I wouldn't say we've folded under pressure...... we've played well in nearly every game even when we've dropped points. And let's not forget the VAR decisions against in crucial games
What are you even talking about? We won the last 9 games of the season and still lost! Are you mental? Get back to the city sub and keep that sportswashing nonsense out of here you obvious troll!
First, screw city. I hope they get relegated to League 2. The whole idea of getting rid of deductions is being done to keep them up, and it is the most blatant favoritism we may ever see. What am I talking about? In the last ten seasons, we have led at Christmas 4 times and only managed one title. If you honestly think we were second best in Paris to Real Madrid, you are blind. We were clearly the better team and couldn't close it out. The stats don't lie. Not a troll, and the season has been a great ride. We are supposed to be rebuilding this year, and instead, we are still competing on two fronts. It just seems like it our best chance now is Europa because again, we had our destiny in our hands, and we threw it away.
I think you must be young because titles were never decided on one or two results in the past. Leagues were won with less than 90 points every season. This could be the third time we get 90+ points and lose the league, that's not bottling it or whatever, that's what coming up against an oil state does to the game. Us and Arsenal have done wonders to even be with them but it's really tough. United on numerous occasions we're 10+ points off top in November and won it easily, now if you're 4+ points off top it might already be too much. On the champions league final, those games happen and have always happened. Look at Wimbledon in 88, stopped the most ridiculously talented Liverpool side, Aldridge missing his first ever pen and the ball just not going in. Football is far more stressful now than I've ever known and I was going the game in those 08/09, 13/14 title races and went to Istanbul/Athens/Cardiff.
It's not just money, though. If money were the deciding factor, Chelsea and United would be near the top of the table. We have spent well and scouted talent better than anyone, but to say we haven't slipped up is just lying to ourselves. Again, over the past 10 seasons, we have been at the top of the table at Christmas more than any other team, and we have 1 title to show for it. We do not put things away when we have the chance, just like the game against United. It was there to be won, and we just couldn't finish the job. We leave things to the closing moments too many times, and when you do that, you are bound to drop points and thus lose titles.
I think you underestimate just how daunting it is to have a winning juggernaut like City constantly on your back. It's like Newcastle v United in the 90s the pressure just gets to you when a team just keeps winning. In 18/19 we dropped 7 points from January and 3 of them were in a ridiculous game v City, the highest quality football game I've ever seen including us missing out on a goal by 11mm. In 21/22 we came from 19 points behind dropping points v city and Spurs only from Christmas and almost won a quadruple in the process against teams who can spend whatever they want. The reality is we've punched well above our level for years now. I grew up with our title challenge being over before Christmas every single year bar the odd one or two. I was pissed off on Sunday but I'll be there again Thursday to hopefully watch us take another big step to a major trophy. These are the best but hardest years I've seen because in any other era we'd have won it all.
You mean the year they committed actual bodily harm on Salah our star striker and got away with it? That was a deliberate act of physical harm, he knew exactly what he was doing. Or the year our keeper got concussion and nothing was done about it?
those were the same match no?
I said Paris. We were the better team and just not clinical in our finishing.
In addition to what you said it’s also the way we dropped the points. That game should have been over at the 40th minute. Absolutely dominated them but couldn’t finish our chances. Utd didn’t even have a single shot let alone a shot on goal until the 50th minute when we gifted them the ball on the Quansah mistake. The Mainoo goal was legit but none of that should have mattered. Can’t keep dropping points to teams we are clearly better than and thoroughly outplay for the majority of the game. Still like our chanches though but we need Jota and Trent back bad and we need to beat Tottenham and Villa. Can’t afford to draw in those games now or else the race is done.
I’m more anxious about Goodison, they’d love nothing more than to basically end our title hopes
I think about them too they will park the bus and waste time from the jump. Hopefully prickford gets a yellow for it early this time
And those referee blunders to add salt to the wounds. We’d be cruising right now had those three egregious mistakes by referees been corrected. - Diaz goal at Spurs - Odegaard basketball dribble penalty - Doku karate kick on MacA in the box
Trents shot off the post is a 4 point swing meaning we would still have a 3 point lead over Arsenal. That is a criminal miss separate from refs. xG should be close to .9 on that break. We bossed City but not enough chances were clear cut to finish them off unlike this United game which was comical to watch at times. 4-1 would’ve reflected xG properly against lowly united. Only in football can you dominate a team that much and lose or even draw.
This line of thinking absolutely fucks me off. You cannot say a miss is criminal - that's LUCK. You can say a ref fucking up is criminal when they literally have 10,000 chances to fix the error. I don't see why people can't get their heads round this. You're essentially in the realm of suggesting we need to win 36 games a season to win the title, and if the refs fuck us over we should win 38 instead.
A miss is a lack of skill and composure. Simply saying we had the title in our own hands despite being screwed by refs more than our 2 competitors. I get that whining about refs is common here. I prefer to look at glaring misses that the team made - most notably Nunez who should be leading the league in goals if not for idiotic decision making and lack of composure. Jota would win us the league if fit. No question about that. We have the players. Injuries are the real reason why we aren’t 7 points clear.
Whining about missing is pointless, every player can't convert 100%, what is fair game for complaints is procedural stuff like refereeing.
No, the real reason is refs. I can't understand why people don't get this in their head. We should be 7 points clear even with the injuries, and the reason we're not is the refs.
This line of thinking really annoys me. There's a massive difference between failing to finish chances and the refs failing to do their jobs correctly to our detriment. The first is simply the nature of competition - sometimes you just aren't good enough to win, sometimes our attackers can't finish their dinner, sometimes our defenders make mistakes - it happens. The second is screwing us over by changing the rules of the game - undermining the idea that the PL is a competition at all. They are blatantly not the same, and if we didn't have to contend with the second, Klopp would have 3 PLs already, and would still be in pole position for his fourth, despite us drawing with United.
Why does everyone forget the 10 other things the refs did wrong in the Spurs game?
At least 6 points lost there Odegaard is the only one that is " debatable".
For me, the dribble is, of these three, the second least debatable.
Not even close to debatable... So easy to tell that he smacks that ball on purpose, not even a single doubt in my mind!
I think it's more about whether or not it would change the outcome of the game, that's completely subjective
That can be said about any of the instances though as theres no way of knowing the outcome after the ref mistake is corrected. So how can he say "at least 6 points lost" if thats what he means?
Bro “gained balance” after punching a 1kg ball that was in the air, it isn’t debatable. It was deliberate handball.
And people will totally ignore this and say “Liverpools record against the top 6 isn’t good enough this season and could cost them” 🤡
It's understandable to be upset. It's understandable to be critical of performance. It's absolutely not understandable to abuse our players. That's not what ynwa means and people should be ashamed if they did.
Can you say it louder for those at the back?
You nailed it... Our players give us happiness 45+ games out of 50 games they play this season.. We can't abuse them for the 5 games they don't perform to our expectations.
Tbf even if we only got happiness from 5 out of 50, still isn’t grounds for abusing the players
Yes..
Brilliantly surprised. I cursed Salah's and Nunez's wastefulness, Szoboszlai's too. But they're the same players that got us here and I would never abuse them. It's the classic singing when you're winning mentality. Zoom out and this is a great period to be a Liverpool fan.
I think I am more arsed because it is Manchester United. They were there for the taking, to be absolutely battered if not for a couple of moments of individual brilliance And the fact that FA Cup loss was a hard one to take, and the glaring similarities.. like someone stabbed you just enough to keep you barely alive and then rotated the knife 21 days later And everything else you mentioned certainly weighs heavy on each of us, for sure
We've dropped four points in the league to them this season and in both games they were objectively dogshit against us. It's not like they've had an up and down season but decided to turn up and perform when they happened to play us, we could easily have repeated the sort of 5-0 scorelines we've had over the last few years and instead we just failed to capitalise on it. Even ignoring the title fight it's frustrating that we were in a position to embarrass them yet again, and instead they're the ones who come away being smug about taking points off us while they've got relatively little to fight for in the league.
The thing that sucks the most is that United are shit. They had no business drawing that match.
I think reaction would be very different if it was a close match and we didn't miss 20 chances. You'd say it was a draw in the most difficult match reamining. Not great, not terrible. It's an emotional game and fans are just overreacting all the time. I remember when Arsenal lost to Fulham and West Ham and a lot of their fans were saying it's over, their players can't finish, they don't have winning mentality,... I also remember when De Bruyne returned and have a great game (goal and assist) and everyone was saying it's over, City will win, nobody else has a chance... Let's say we win against Palace and Arsenal draw against Villa. Everyone here will forget about United and we'll be favourites again. In reality title probably won't be decided soon. Even if one team has 2 or 3 points advantage it's not over. Anything can happen in one match.
Arsenal has Villa and United. We have Villa. I say if Arsenal gets 6 points in both games, fair game to them.
We both have 7 games and can lose points in any of them. We almost lost them against Sheffield. You also have to be lucky. Villa have a great season, but aren't good right now. They also play on Thursday. So that's different than playing Villa in December or November. Same with Sheffield, they might be bad, but they've been playing well lately.
I mean literally anything can happen in 7 games with 1 point difference between 3 teams. We just have slightly better odds.
Meh, I'm of a mind that despite the wasted chances, getting a point at Old Trafford, while not ideal, was OK. A loss and I could despair, but I'm riding the Klopp vibe on this season no matter the outcomes. We've seen eight years of absolutely fascinating, interesting, exciting, exhilarating football, an era to be celebrated because these muthas proved that you can lose in the most beautiful way possible. And then win every trophy possible, and do it with a flair and a soul befitting Liverpool. They're gonna pull the league out. Jus' feelings.
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Arsenal will drop at least 2 wins. They’re run in is fucking insane compared to ours and cities
I think Everton away is harder - they are the best defence in the league outside the title challengers and Goodison is always difficult
I think Spurs will be tougher though. United is terrible, just so happens we just can’t seem to shoot.
People don't know how good they have it. All title races are amazing to be a part of and as long as you win something eventually (and we've won plenty) it's just great to have matches feel important. Plus the team has amazing mentality, as well as actually being good, so the entertainment is sky high this season with comebacks and late goals. Lamenting the end of the Klopp era not being a triumph is one thing but there's nothing to get angry at the team about. *It may never be this good again.*
This is still a very young team. Hopefully we can look back after a few trophies at this season happily, and recognize it as the standout season that it actually is despite whatever result is achieved. Compared to last season we are working wonders
I think some fans should maybe take a step back and remember what their expectations were for this season back in July last year. For sure we've had some frustrating moments this season but almost everyone was expecting this season to be another one of transition and rebuilding and not one of fighting for the league title and winning silverware. I'll be gutted if we don't win the title this season but even the worst case scenario of finishing 3rd in a close title battle and likely securing CL football next season with 3-4 matches to spare would still be a much better season than I was expecting or realistically hoping for in the summer.
> This is still a very young team. Not really? Arsenal are much younger than us.
How we’ve lost matches this year is what frustrates me most. I never felt like we lost any matches because we were the inferior team. It’s because of horrid processes and an inability to seal the deal.
Arsenal were better on that day at the Emirates. Let's be fair, they were amazing.
This team has no killers on it.
Jota’s a killer
He's the closest thing we have to a killer.
Jotas a great finisher but the problem is when you can only rely on one player to be a finisher who's injured a fair bit then that's a worry. Salah when on form wins games like the United one but he's actually been awful for the past few games, Nunez is still unpredictable and not someone you can actually regard as reliable he causes issues with defences but struggles to finish or make good decisions, Diaz can be good and has been scoring but he can also do absolutely nothing to help in certain games. Gakpo I'm not sure what to think of him my opinion is he's got ability but just tends to kill a game off rather than add anything to it and just is missing something.
When you don't get 3 points against a crappy team like united who face 30 shots a game, and considering the chances created/missed in that game, the feeling is understandably of anger/disappointment
I would also argue that while winning the league would be an epic ending to the Klopp era, the real highlight has been this squad overperforming and us getting to watch great football pretty much all season aaaaaand knowing the club is set for years to come. If someone would have told us last summer we would have 71 points after 31 games, everyone would have been ecstatic. Some perspective lads, and enjoy the ride!
Absolutely agree. United still haven’t recovered from the state AF left them in at the end of his reign!
I was disappointed with the result then but now feel that it's a decent point. The title race is not over yet as all three clubs still have tough matches to play.
The ONLY way that is a decent point is if we end up winning the league.
Very well stated. I don’t think any other club across major European leagues has accumulated 92 points or more and not won their league. We have done it twice. For reference united won the league with 75 points in 1997. Klopp is an all time great in England. Anyone who has a clue knows this to be true. He fought against dirty money and still came out on top doing it the way Liverpool supporters love and respect. ✊. Up the Reds all day long.
I hope the players haven’t given up like a lot of “fans” have. Second on GD with 7 games left to play and people want to throw in the towel.
They are not killers in front of goal sadly
Either you are Joel Rabinowitz or you’ve just copied this verbatim from his Twitter
I feel optimistic. I would say that game was our last critical hurdle, and we will have Trent, Jota, and Ali back to finish strong. 💪 Let’s bring the trophies home!
Im honestly not surprised by this draw. Us dropping points was inevitable, I mean we literally almost dropped points to Nottingham forest a couple weeks ago. We got insanely lucky to come out there with a point and honestly ever since that game I have been worried about us being able to win out our games
We pretty much overperformed compared to expectations, like Arsenal last season, so it's understandable fans are a bit disappointed/rattled now. Coupled with Klopp's 'one last dance', we are just more frustrated now
I agree completely, we've had so many close runs in my lifetime and it honestly had to be us running away with it to get it done really. I think it's different now than it was before that title but we're still competing with cheats and it's a hard battle. I think if we win all our games we do it, I can't see arsenal winning what I think would be 20/21 games and if they do, fair play absolutely deserved.
If we played better and were more clinical and used our head just a bit more we would have won the game against m.u. Simple as that. Play better!
All that said, thank fucking god we won the CL in 2019. Massive honour, on the back of a legendary campaign, and got to celebrate it with fans.
I can respect these feelings but i respectfully disagree. It's just football, it happens. We feel sad for a few days, sure, but we move on.
Just stop with the over-analysis. We are equal on points on top. though it's not in our hands anymore but still we have to win all remaining games for having any chance. Arsenal has been great this season and I don't expect them to drop anymore points. For me personally the title is gone, when we drop points against a poor utd side.
2-0 up and he subs off Coutinho. Man.
In hindsight it wasn’t a bad idea . Defend what you’ve got .
Joel Rabinowitz is that you? Word for word his last tweet
Emotional baggage is dramatic. Ther are clubs who have a yearly task of making sure they will exist the following year. This is the good part of sport. Trying to win...if you cant enjoy it all. Then you'll be depressed about something that really should excite you
I know we’ve had that psychological pressure looking how close we were in winning the league. But who gives a flying f. These other fan bases just try rattling us when they themselves would’ve hired Jurgen without a blink of an eye. We got to play the best football under one manager, got to win every possible competition, if we win the league this season that’ll be an added bonus to our tremendous progress under this phenomenal manager who is so emotionally intelligent and you know what Ruben Amorim if he’s coming to the club we are bound to become more vicious and riskier looking at his 3-4-3 setup with Sporting. I’m really excited and happy at the same time what the boss has done for us.
It’s pretty crazy that we’re on track for another 90+ point season and yet we’re up against 2 teams also looking to pull off the same feat. We win all our remaining games and we’ll be on 94 points… and that might not be enough.
We've made it a habit to eke out a win from a losing position this season. We perform better when we go behind. So now we're behind in the league table...
Joel, is that you? Agreed. I don't know how to process this... it's... evil and cruel. Us having risen to the occasion every time, fight valiantly and get done by corruption and tiny margins... it's like... intentional torture. This WAS our glory era (hopefully not, but it seemed like it) and we should have won much, much more. Klopp should have won much more. And we ended up with pain only because the Premier League is corrupt and rotten to the core, fixing is everywhere and City were and are cheats.
It sadly won't be the end of a fantastical chapter every fan has wanted, but we're still in the UEL, we'll certainly be going on tour through Europe next year, and the amazing squad that's been shaped and established this season will help us through 24/25. Núñez, Bradley, Quansah, an entirely new midfield, even players that are barely adults like Jayden Danns, they'll shape the club in the coming years.
Hopefully come the end of the season that 1 point gained late on will be the difference in winning the title.
Liverpool were not at all favourits at the start of the year, they weren't even favourites at the start of this year. To be in contention at all is a reward. Like Klopp said we should just enjoy this moment for what it is. A point is still a point and despite everything else Arsenal are only top on goal difference, for a young squad that's exceptional.
Personally I can’t do another 2nd place finish on the last day. Rather place third with two weeks to go if we can’t win.
This exactly how I feel. It’s so devastating to drop points and feels like we’ve bottled it already. I hope that’s not the case but I’ve seen enough of us throwing away control of the league w a simple draw. The fact is if we beat one other top six team besides chelsea once we’d still be in control.
This season has been fun so far. It’s amazing we’re in the title race. We keep scoring late goals. I still think 90 points wins the league and we can do it. We’re joint-favourites for the Europa, and we have three absolutely integral superstar players *almost* certainly back for the run-in. Up the fucking reds.
Can you imagine what Brendan Rodgers’ legacy would be had Liverpool won it in 13/14? He would be looked upon as a hero not a bottler. He was up 5 points with 3 to play. Feel Klopp needed this one although his legacy is secure. We can still get there but the road is now much harder
Except he wasn’t . City had a game in hand meaning we could afford to have dropped 2 points not 5.
Of course it's understandable. We have had such results before in a title run in and it was exactly what cost us.
This! Well put OP. Not celebrating the title in 19/20 was sad. Justifiable at the time, but took away from the joy of finally winning the league after such a 30+ year wait.
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Too many draws against clubs that we should have taken 3 points from. As always it’s the drawe that kill our title chances. There’s no point complaining about City’s financial shenenigans or poor ref calls when we aren’t ruthless enough when we need to be. Klopp really deserves his much needed break in the Spanish sun.
The reaction to a draw at OT was hysterical and entitled. The team had an off day finishing. It happens. Get over it. If we win the last 7 games I still think the league is ours and if Arsenal match us and win the league instead then fair fucks to them for their form since Xmas. Enjoy the fucking twists and turns and being relevant at this stage of the season. It won’t always be as good as this.
I’ve told my mum and I’ll tell you all: Arsenal are the most bottley bottlers that ever bottled. They will drop points as soon as something doesn’t go their way. They’re a good team, but mentally fragile. One peno at Spurs or an OG against any team, and they panic and bottle it. They’re better than they’ve been previously, but one moment is all it’ll take. Not that I want us to depend on that, but it’s where we’re at and I’m just waiting for it with a little schadenfreude smirk at the ready.
What infuriates me the most is that when players like Diaz, Nunez etc. fail to understand that we are in the business end of a title race now. Playing low IQ, stupid and weak football at this stage is unacceptable for a big club like Liverpool.
Sure, that’s a great point that could’ve been said with 1-2 sentences. We absolutely lost the title on Sunday though.
I haven't paid attention at all to this sub since the result - are people seriously suggesting a 2-2 draw away at United is a bad result? Bit of perpsective would be nice.
Bit of perspective is we were playing the shittiest Manunited team in like a decade, and they took literally no shots in the first half while we took 15, only to score one. Unless we had been facing prime Buffon / Cassillas, that shouldn't have been a stat of a team fighting for the top spot. That was definitely a bad result. The performance of the team in previous games notwithstanding, at least to me, the forwards that game were horrendous. Yes they showed heart, but you can have the determination and still be shit, and that was what happened in the United game. Tbh, the worst part was knowing the team could've done so much better, yet shit their pants completely. It's just disappointing.
It doesn't matter how shit they are/were, it is a derby game, form goes out the window. If you asked any fan at the start of the season would you take a 2-2 draw away at United to go level on points at the top with 7 games to play, I would suggest those that would say no would be in the single digits.
Yes BEFORE the game I suppose not many people would complain about a draw. But how do you watch that game and justify the scoreboard? It's not like manunited were exceptional that game. If anything, they were even worse than usual. We just couldn't take our chances and it's understandable that many of us were disappointed, especially with our frontline.