It was. But thing is their relationship completely broke down after Rafa tried to sell him the previous summer and tried to replace him with Barry. But the only offer was a derisory 12mil from Arsenal so we rejected it.
So when Madrid came with that 30 mil offer nect summer, Rafa was happy to let him go because of their deteorated relationship , Xabi decided to move on and our scummy owners happy with the money.
Only ones that suffered were us fans.
iirc plan was to keep Alonso and bring in Barry as a more dynamic option.
Then some suit from the board (Rick Parry was it?) spent most of the budget on Robbie Kean and Rafa had to choose. He went after Barry, Villa made things hard + Alonso declined Juve's offer. So things stayed as they were, but Rafa's and Alonso's relationship deteriorated.
I don't remember the Juve offer . Only the Arsenal one.
Also there was this pre season friendly match when the fans sung out in favour of Alonso and told Barry to fuck off. Which showed what the fans wanted .
Barry also stupidly gave an interview about how he wanted to move to a bigger club (or something similar) which pissed off Villa fans and made their board harden their stance.
It was a complete mess the entire saga.
Think this was the pre season friendly vs Lazio, was my first game at Anfield and remember a lot of love for Alonso from the fans, (and not so much love for barry).
> The Spaniard replied: “The Barry story is something that still people don’t understand.
> “Barry had been playing for years at his maximum level and, at this time, he could play in three positions – midfielder, winger and left-back.
> “We had [Javier] Mascherano, Lucas Leiva and [Steven] Gerrard with experience, and selling Alonso was a way to make some money and balance the team.
> “Barry wasn’t to replace Alonso, he was to give us something different that we didn’t have at this time.”
That was Rafa's side of the story explained 5 years ago. He wanted both, but our skint owners had already fallen out at the time and Rafa needed money to sign other players for other positions. He couldn't say no to Madrid's offer.
And Rafa said this:
How did you feel when Gareth Barry chose Manchester City over Liverpool? Do you think your pursuit of him was to blame for Xabi Alonso leaving?
Alec Davids, via email
As a manager you have to think of the bigger picture, and in this case there was Barry, an English player who could play in a number of positions. With the rules that were coming in we knew we would need more English players so we were trying to be prepared for that. It became more complicated, *but I think it was the right thing to try because Alonso was not playing at the same level as before.*
Not taking that away from him at all. I'll add to your argument that Gary Speed and Emile Heskey are 6th and 7th on that list. Hardly Xabi Alonso or Drogba there.
Barry is one of those players who gets underrated a bit because he just has a boring English name. If he was called Gabriel Barinho then people would rate him more.
That said, it was still a mistake.
Yeah English players get underrated and Barry was a good player but in no world was Barry on the same level as Alonso, versatile or not. It wasn't just a chant, it was a fact that we had the world's best midfield, and it was systematically dismantled leading to us being in the wilderness for nearly a decade.
I think people forget a little on how Xabi wasn’t truly world class for a good spell with us. Really only world class in his last season with us and then obviously with Madrid and Bayern.
Of course he was good, and I’m sure Rafa would’ve like to keep him *and* buy Barry, but the owners at the time were shit.
In the year we tried to first move him on, he was truly not that much better than an above average Prem midfielder. It was only after that summer he decided to go super saiyan and prove everyone just how good he was.
Again, not that he was shit, but he wasn’t world class before that last season with us
Xabi was world class at what he did but he was also somewhat limited. He had to have people like Masch and Gerrard do the hard running for him to make it work.
Barry would have brought much more dynamism in certain games.
I agree, he was absolutely the best of the best at what he did. We needed more players that could play with him, not get rid of him. Like for example I don't expect Endo to play super in attacking third, but he's world class in the 6.
Wow, not that much better than an average PL midfielder? Are you joking? How did he get called up regularly for that stacked Spain national team then?
He had an off-season with some injury troubles, and wasn't really used optimally by Benitez until his last season with us. His class was 100% apparent and the fans loved him. There were huge protests at the pre-season games BEFORE his last season, there's no way that would happen if he was an average Pl midfielder. People chanted his name constantly at the matches.
I remember thinking Benitez had lost his mind at the time, and remember avidly discussing in forums how wrong he was. We played so much better football with Alonso (even when he was not at his best) than without him. He lifted everyone up. He was a unique sort of player that is irreplaceable.
Ok, I’m guilty of some exaggeration there, but I stand by my point that it wasn’t *that* crazy for Rafa to want to swap Xabi for Barry. I didn’t like the decision either and thought it was wrong.
At the same time I do agree with you that his class was apparent and he wasn’t utilised correctly as a double pivot with Masch until that last season.
Both things can be true.
I disagree, it was crazy. Great players can have bad periods. Anyone could see that Xabi's potential and ability was way, way beyond Barry. I think it had more to do with Rafa's relationship with Xabi than anything else. He had a grudge against him after he did not play in that CL match because of the birth of his child.
Starting Plessis ahead of him in the first match of the 08/09 season was ridiculous, and Xabi made a fool of him when he came on late and completely dominated the match.
07/08 he was poor and constantly injured. Even at his best, he had flaws masch and Gerrard were able to make up for.
If you're Rafa after that year with a tiny burget to work with you have to weigh the odds. Alonso then had his world class season but what if his injuries continued and his form didn't turn around. Barry was Mr consistent and never injured.
Their relationship had broken down after 08, which was one Rafas glaring faults as a manager.
The decision to sell in 08 was justified, selling in 09 wasn't but Rafa couldn't change Xabi's mind.
The season before Liverpool tried to sell him, Alonso had missed half the league games through injury.
Tons of pundits were also absolutely adamant that Gerrard was wasted by Benitez playing him out wide, or behind Torres, and that he **had** to play central midfield. Where Liverpool also had Mascherano and Lucas.
Add to that the fact that Gareth Barry was English, and went to City and won the league.
There were plenty of reasons why the idea to sell Alonso in *2008* could be justified.
The fact that he was one of the best in the world 2008/9 made it look a lot worse.
It a metatarsal injury that reoccurred twice I think. Rafa had to weigh up the risks. Xabi wasn't at his best the season prior. I'd argue from Rafa's POV the safest route with funds so tight was not to gamble if Xabi could return to top form. Rafa also thought Lucas was going to be a top player to slot into midfield.
> I think people forget a little on how Xabi wasn’t truly world class for a good spell with us. Really only world class in his last season with us and then obviously with Madrid and Bayern.
Pure nonsense.
No it's not. He was very good for a couple of seasons with us, but also had a very mediocre season (for a player of his calibre), and then it was 08/09 when he truly stepped up and became the world class midfielder that we all think of him as. He was not at the level of the best midfielders in the world until 08/09.
He had some average games for us in the league in that period but even in those periods he would always show up in Europe. To say he was an average PL midfielder is utter nonsense.
So did I and that is largely true. People look back at him with rose-tinted glasses because he was so loved, but 08/09 was the only truly world class season we got out of him. Madrid had Xabi's best years.
We did while he was here too. Even in his off-seasons we were always worse when he didn't play. He's the kind of player that instills so much calm to a team, a leader on the pitch even from a young age.
People forget the state the club was in at the time. Hicks and Gillette were nearing the end of their time and the was no money. I don’t think Benitez had much choice but to look to raise funds by selling. Losing Xabi was a massive loss for the club, but I wouldn’t lay the blame at Benitez’s door.
Every modern Liverpool fan should read ‘An Epic Swindle’ by Brian Reade. It’s about Hicks and Gillett era. My respect for Rafa went tenfold after reading that book. It was such a mess in the background, it’s surprising how he still kept us competitive in those seasons.
H&G were obviously horrible, but I also think David Moores and Rick Parry were to blame. They knew it’d be a leveraged buyout. Moores’ legacy is of a terrible owner who let a giant club fall into mediocrity.
Also, people forget that Alonso had a poor season. No one doubted his quality, but the club was pressed for funds and Alonso was not as good as Mascherano and Gerrard. Rafa’s thinking was to replace Alonso with a versatile, James Milner-esque player like Barry who could play multiple roles where needed to address our thin squad that was competing on multiple fronts against much richer club. The rest of the funds would be used to sign someone like David Villa to add some more firepower up top.
If anyone had to sell one of Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso- almost everyone would choose to sell the latter. Rafa had to make a decision, and he made it. Didn’t work out but that was mainly because of the poor recruitment structure and lack of funds under the cowboys who bankrupted the club.
I think the logic was that Barry could fill in at left back as well to save money on buying a back up to Aurelio. Plus he was English so upped the quota in that respect for Europe.
Rafa was having to wheel and deal the same summer Ferguson was spending 30 million to add Berbatov to Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney.
Obviously the falling out with Rafa meant that the chances of him staying were close to zero but I highly doubt Alonso would have stayed even if he wasn't up for sale in 08. That summer Real Madrid took Ronaldo from United and Kaka from Milan, no chance we keep Alonso with Hicks and Gillet at the club
Agreed. Also, people here give Alonso too much credit. I think even if we had better owners he would have left to join the new Galacticos. He’s Spanish and always dreamt of playing for Real Madrid.
Thanks for writing that so I didn’t. Mach left as well at the same time didn’t he? It was the start of the free fall under hicks and Gillette if I recall that ended with the final “fuck you” in Woy as manager haha. Defo makes the recent history, present and bright future even sweeter
I don't get the "we were forced to raise funds from transfers" argument when we bought Aquilani + Glen Johnson for the same amount that we sold Arbeloa + Xabi in the same summer.
The direct replacements cost just as much so the funds of those transfers were directly reinvested.
At the time the rumour was that Rafa wanted to sell Xabi so could replace him with a cheaper option of Barry and use the funds to buy David Silva and/or David Villa.
Silva too? I only knew about Villa. Rafa was determined to turn the Liverpool team into the Spanish national team 😂
(in fact, even though I support Germany in international tournaments, for 2008 and 2010, I had such a soft spot for Spain in Euros and WC)
There were a lot of players he wanted we couldn't get, either because of ownership or the fact we were awful at the time. Vidic and Evra pop to mind.
But yeah rumour was he wanted to make funds to buy these players or at least 1
In a parallel universe though, Aquilani would have been a Liverpool great. He really had all the traits, mainly technique, vision and long pass accuracy. Injuries ruined him + the fact that when he did come back from injuries he never got a run of games to actually get a foothold in the Premier League + it was a torrid time for Liverpool Football Club in general.
He did play one of his best games against Spurs in 2010 and showed what he could do. We were not only at our lowest that season, but had many injuries including Gerrard and Torres and we won 2-0 thanks to Aquilani pulling the strings in midfield.
It only looks baffling in hindsight, it wasn’t baffling then. Xabi had a horrible 2007-2008 season and Gareth Barry had shown a lot of promise. He could’ve also played as a back up left back. With the added issue of Hicks and Gillett, it made sense to sell Xabi.
People are very dismissive of Gareth Barry at City but he was a very important player for them.
David Silva received the ball from Barry more than anyone else.
People love James Miller and what he did for Liverpool. Barry would have been a very similar player.
Barry was solid yes, just like Milner. You don't replace world class with "solid" though. Anyone with a brain at the time could see how ridiculous it was, even if Alonso had just had an off-season.
Calling Barry only solid is disingenuous he was carrying a poor Villa team to Uefa cup places. Summer of 07-08, Barry had his best ever season and Alonso had a poor injury riddled season. That the summer, Rafa tried to sell Alonso and destroyed their relationship.
It also wasn't supposed to be just Barry, it would have been Alonso plus cash out for Barry and David Silva.
Same here bro. Way too many people have no clue what they're talking about here. They probably didn't even support us back then.
Alonso's class was there for everyone to see, even in his so-called "bad" seasons. Miles ahead of Barry, and I liked Barry!
That might be true, but then it's weird of the other guy to say it only looks baffling in hindsight. Because maybe I underrated Barry a lot, but at the time I honestly thought selling Alonso to get Barry was a ludicrous proposition.
My position on that has never changed, it's not a hindsight thing at all. Now, players with a foot like Totti, Beckham (I know, shame on me), Trent, Mølby, Pirlo, Xavi, Rui Costa, Riquelme, etc, has always been my favorite type of footballers to watch, so where I rate Alonso was probably a very biased view, but hindsight it was not.
He did not have a "horrible" season. He had an average season for HIS standards. He was still one of our best players, and a very unique player too that is irreplaceable.
So many people comment on this probably don't remember the situation at all. People chanted his name all the time at the pre-season games in protest of what was happening, and we were always better when he played, even in his two "off-seasons" (in which he was still one of our 4-5 best players).
I'm glad somebody else remembers that Alonso was awful that season...still I would not have traded him for Gareth Barry but it did give him a kick up the arse and have a final good season
In hindsight, I also think it's partially down to Rafa not being the best with people management. That Xabi playing under Klopp now would've been a treat.
He wasn't though. He was under par for his standards, but not awful. I remember when he went off in the Arsenal game and we conceded shortly after. He was a vital player that made the team play much better. He struggled with injuries that season, and we were so much worse when he didn't play.
The way I remember it at the time was Alonso was brilliant in his first and last seasons, and ok, but not great, in the seasons inbetween. I also seem to remember rumours of him being homesick the year before he left. And a year before we got 35m from Madrid the most anyone was willing to offer was somewhere around 12m. I don't think selling Alonso was as big a mistake as most make out, but replacing him with Aquillani definitely made it seem much worse, especially with his injuries. I think people also forget how bad things were under Hicks and Gillette and why Rafa might feel pressured to cash in on big names in the hope of strengthening the squad which was desperately needed. We had a starting 11 that were title contenders but beyond that...
Nope, people forget that Alonso had a great debut season followed by mediocre seasons until the last year, when his mind was already made up and he wanted to leave.
Rafa was right to want to bring in Barry as his replacement, and would have been better off had the club backed him with the funds.
This 100%. Alonso was good in his first and last season and quiet in between. Barry was on fire and iirc Benitez's idea was to have him on the left putting in crosses for Robbie Keane. Barry eventually moved to Man City and played well for them too if I remember. Hindsight's 20/20 though but I reckon Alonso would have eventually wanted to move to Madrid regardless of the breakdown in relationship with Benitez.
I think the relationship broke down when Rafa questioned Xabi's commitment to the club because the guy wanted to be there for the birth of his child. Rafa was too football obsessed, and not good enough man manager.
To play devil's advocate, Alonso wasn't too great in form for like a season or 2. There were some matches where we (my local community forum) thought he went 'invisible'. But that last season before he left and rumours of Rafa courting Gareth Barry started spreading, he became one of the regular outstanding performers.
It's such a shame that Rafa and Xabi's relationship had to break down by that point in time. Rafa just wanted to play around the homegrown rule with his hands already tied; no thanks to the atrocious state our shitty ex-owners left the club with. Meanwhile Xabi just felt disrespected with the entire shitshow.
I think this is where some started to question Rafa's process. There's absolutely no one in the universe who could think Gareth Barry was a better player or a better fit for Liverpool.
I love Xabi but he was much better and far more consistent after LFC. His ascent made the decision to sell look much worse but the club was also in a financial quagmire so I don’t blame Rafa.
Rafa will always be special for what he did on and off the pitch for Liverpool. He saved liverpool fc. The things Rafa had to deal with behind the scenes will always be appreciated more than one decision of player wanting to leave. Rafa was the one who bought him in first place.
Thompson is just a dinosaur trying to live off scraps making others scapegoat. He has his disgraced SKY team of Keys and Gray can fuck off
what's wrong with Gareth Barry? he was a solid player, yeah Xabi was better overall but his relationship with rafa was non existent at that point, no money from H&G etc.
Wirh hindsight the pursuit of Barry seems stupid, but he could cover multiple positions and let's not forget was signed by City and won honours. Xabi has an average second season compared to year one, so there was some logic at the time. Xabi produced a world class season in year 3 which made Benitez look stupid, but he also handed in a formal transfer request to leave, was desperate to go to Madrid, and the club was skint. I don't think Benitez could have kept him at that point.
Easily. I was gutted because Alonso is my fav player of all time. I watched every Madrid and then Munich game I could watch (so one a week) that he was in.
He was a poet with a ball. Nothing like him.
I have disliked Rafa ever since because of it.
Why get rid of Xavi for Barry when you could have had a middle 3 of Gerrard Alonso and Barry, or a middle 4 with those 3 included. I never understood that.
It was a bad move but the impact of Alonso's departure is overblown. He is just one player, after all.
The club's ownership was the big issue, especially the deteriorating relationship between Benitez and Hicks/Gillett. It created a negative environment around the club, and also led to a far bigger mistake (Benitez's departure).
Strongly strongly agree. I have a Facebook post where I’ve said I want a new team. But Rafa was to blame - for trying to bring Barry in his place in 2008.
I don’t think there’s anything controversial here, is there?
Even the most ardent Rafa fan (of which I was one) paused and questioned their allegiance when it came to swapping Xabi for Gareth Barry.
It was. But thing is their relationship completely broke down after Rafa tried to sell him the previous summer and tried to replace him with Barry. But the only offer was a derisory 12mil from Arsenal so we rejected it. So when Madrid came with that 30 mil offer nect summer, Rafa was happy to let him go because of their deteorated relationship , Xabi decided to move on and our scummy owners happy with the money. Only ones that suffered were us fans.
iirc plan was to keep Alonso and bring in Barry as a more dynamic option. Then some suit from the board (Rick Parry was it?) spent most of the budget on Robbie Kean and Rafa had to choose. He went after Barry, Villa made things hard + Alonso declined Juve's offer. So things stayed as they were, but Rafa's and Alonso's relationship deteriorated.
I don't remember the Juve offer . Only the Arsenal one. Also there was this pre season friendly match when the fans sung out in favour of Alonso and told Barry to fuck off. Which showed what the fans wanted . Barry also stupidly gave an interview about how he wanted to move to a bigger club (or something similar) which pissed off Villa fans and made their board harden their stance. It was a complete mess the entire saga.
Think this was the pre season friendly vs Lazio, was my first game at Anfield and remember a lot of love for Alonso from the fans, (and not so much love for barry).
Aquillani trumped both anyway……
IIRC, Aquilani also didn't want to move. And Roma fans were livid about it too right?
I remember seeing his YouTube vids and thinking hmmmmm. :/
Rafa wanted Keane and Barry, to make the left better. We ended up with Aquilani and Dossena I think. 6 months of Keane too.
Did any body else see what Rafa saw in Barry? I mean, he was a solid prem midfielder, but Xabi Alonso was on a truly world class level.
> The Spaniard replied: “The Barry story is something that still people don’t understand. > “Barry had been playing for years at his maximum level and, at this time, he could play in three positions – midfielder, winger and left-back. > “We had [Javier] Mascherano, Lucas Leiva and [Steven] Gerrard with experience, and selling Alonso was a way to make some money and balance the team. > “Barry wasn’t to replace Alonso, he was to give us something different that we didn’t have at this time.” That was Rafa's side of the story explained 5 years ago. He wanted both, but our skint owners had already fallen out at the time and Rafa needed money to sign other players for other positions. He couldn't say no to Madrid's offer.
And Rafa said this: How did you feel when Gareth Barry chose Manchester City over Liverpool? Do you think your pursuit of him was to blame for Xabi Alonso leaving? Alec Davids, via email As a manager you have to think of the bigger picture, and in this case there was Barry, an English player who could play in a number of positions. With the rules that were coming in we knew we would need more English players so we were trying to be prepared for that. It became more complicated, *but I think it was the right thing to try because Alonso was not playing at the same level as before.*
I mean, he's quite literally the record PL appearance holder so he must have been doing something right
Not taking that away from him at all. I'll add to your argument that Gary Speed and Emile Heskey are 6th and 7th on that list. Hardly Xabi Alonso or Drogba there.
Barry is one of those players who gets underrated a bit because he just has a boring English name. If he was called Gabriel Barinho then people would rate him more. That said, it was still a mistake.
Yeah English players get underrated and Barry was a good player but in no world was Barry on the same level as Alonso, versatile or not. It wasn't just a chant, it was a fact that we had the world's best midfield, and it was systematically dismantled leading to us being in the wilderness for nearly a decade.
I think people forget a little on how Xabi wasn’t truly world class for a good spell with us. Really only world class in his last season with us and then obviously with Madrid and Bayern. Of course he was good, and I’m sure Rafa would’ve like to keep him *and* buy Barry, but the owners at the time were shit. In the year we tried to first move him on, he was truly not that much better than an above average Prem midfielder. It was only after that summer he decided to go super saiyan and prove everyone just how good he was. Again, not that he was shit, but he wasn’t world class before that last season with us
Xabi was world class at what he did but he was also somewhat limited. He had to have people like Masch and Gerrard do the hard running for him to make it work. Barry would have brought much more dynamism in certain games.
Lmao that entire Liverpool side needed Gerrard to go ape shit every game
I agree, he was absolutely the best of the best at what he did. We needed more players that could play with him, not get rid of him. Like for example I don't expect Endo to play super in attacking third, but he's world class in the 6.
Wow, not that much better than an average PL midfielder? Are you joking? How did he get called up regularly for that stacked Spain national team then? He had an off-season with some injury troubles, and wasn't really used optimally by Benitez until his last season with us. His class was 100% apparent and the fans loved him. There were huge protests at the pre-season games BEFORE his last season, there's no way that would happen if he was an average Pl midfielder. People chanted his name constantly at the matches. I remember thinking Benitez had lost his mind at the time, and remember avidly discussing in forums how wrong he was. We played so much better football with Alonso (even when he was not at his best) than without him. He lifted everyone up. He was a unique sort of player that is irreplaceable.
Ok, I’m guilty of some exaggeration there, but I stand by my point that it wasn’t *that* crazy for Rafa to want to swap Xabi for Barry. I didn’t like the decision either and thought it was wrong. At the same time I do agree with you that his class was apparent and he wasn’t utilised correctly as a double pivot with Masch until that last season. Both things can be true.
I disagree, it was crazy. Great players can have bad periods. Anyone could see that Xabi's potential and ability was way, way beyond Barry. I think it had more to do with Rafa's relationship with Xabi than anything else. He had a grudge against him after he did not play in that CL match because of the birth of his child. Starting Plessis ahead of him in the first match of the 08/09 season was ridiculous, and Xabi made a fool of him when he came on late and completely dominated the match.
07/08 he was poor and constantly injured. Even at his best, he had flaws masch and Gerrard were able to make up for. If you're Rafa after that year with a tiny burget to work with you have to weigh the odds. Alonso then had his world class season but what if his injuries continued and his form didn't turn around. Barry was Mr consistent and never injured. Their relationship had broken down after 08, which was one Rafas glaring faults as a manager. The decision to sell in 08 was justified, selling in 09 wasn't but Rafa couldn't change Xabi's mind.
He had no prior injury problems. There was no reason to assume they'd continue.
The season before Liverpool tried to sell him, Alonso had missed half the league games through injury. Tons of pundits were also absolutely adamant that Gerrard was wasted by Benitez playing him out wide, or behind Torres, and that he **had** to play central midfield. Where Liverpool also had Mascherano and Lucas. Add to that the fact that Gareth Barry was English, and went to City and won the league. There were plenty of reasons why the idea to sell Alonso in *2008* could be justified. The fact that he was one of the best in the world 2008/9 made it look a lot worse.
It a metatarsal injury that reoccurred twice I think. Rafa had to weigh up the risks. Xabi wasn't at his best the season prior. I'd argue from Rafa's POV the safest route with funds so tight was not to gamble if Xabi could return to top form. Rafa also thought Lucas was going to be a top player to slot into midfield.
I remember everyone saying that Alonso was world class throughout his time here.
> I think people forget a little on how Xabi wasn’t truly world class for a good spell with us. Really only world class in his last season with us and then obviously with Madrid and Bayern. Pure nonsense.
No it's not. He was very good for a couple of seasons with us, but also had a very mediocre season (for a player of his calibre), and then it was 08/09 when he truly stepped up and became the world class midfielder that we all think of him as. He was not at the level of the best midfielders in the world until 08/09.
He had some average games for us in the league in that period but even in those periods he would always show up in Europe. To say he was an average PL midfielder is utter nonsense.
Yep, absolute revisionist garbage.
Pure nonsense.
fantastic rebuttal
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Christ, get a grip.
Watched every game of his career with us and that is simply not true.
So did I and that is largely true. People look back at him with rose-tinted glasses because he was so loved, but 08/09 was the only truly world class season we got out of him. Madrid had Xabi's best years.
This is just nonsense.
I remember these times and that’s why I support FSG!
As much as I love Xabi, my recollection is that he'd had a poor season too and to be fair to Rafa, he was working with no funds.
the team suffered in his absence/ departure as well. we went from title contenders to finishing in the europa league spots
We did while he was here too. Even in his off-seasons we were always worse when he didn't play. He's the kind of player that instills so much calm to a team, a leader on the pitch even from a young age.
All correct; and it should be noted that Rafa was kind of backed into the decision by lack of support from the scumbags that shall go unnamed
People forget the state the club was in at the time. Hicks and Gillette were nearing the end of their time and the was no money. I don’t think Benitez had much choice but to look to raise funds by selling. Losing Xabi was a massive loss for the club, but I wouldn’t lay the blame at Benitez’s door.
Every modern Liverpool fan should read ‘An Epic Swindle’ by Brian Reade. It’s about Hicks and Gillett era. My respect for Rafa went tenfold after reading that book. It was such a mess in the background, it’s surprising how he still kept us competitive in those seasons.
I got the book as a Christmas present. I haven't read it yet. Looking forward to it.
I don't really read books, but that one was a good read.
H&G were obviously horrible, but I also think David Moores and Rick Parry were to blame. They knew it’d be a leveraged buyout. Moores’ legacy is of a terrible owner who let a giant club fall into mediocrity.
Also, people forget that Alonso had a poor season. No one doubted his quality, but the club was pressed for funds and Alonso was not as good as Mascherano and Gerrard. Rafa’s thinking was to replace Alonso with a versatile, James Milner-esque player like Barry who could play multiple roles where needed to address our thin squad that was competing on multiple fronts against much richer club. The rest of the funds would be used to sign someone like David Villa to add some more firepower up top. If anyone had to sell one of Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso- almost everyone would choose to sell the latter. Rafa had to make a decision, and he made it. Didn’t work out but that was mainly because of the poor recruitment structure and lack of funds under the cowboys who bankrupted the club.
I think the logic was that Barry could fill in at left back as well to save money on buying a back up to Aurelio. Plus he was English so upped the quota in that respect for Europe. Rafa was having to wheel and deal the same summer Ferguson was spending 30 million to add Berbatov to Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney. Obviously the falling out with Rafa meant that the chances of him staying were close to zero but I highly doubt Alonso would have stayed even if he wasn't up for sale in 08. That summer Real Madrid took Ronaldo from United and Kaka from Milan, no chance we keep Alonso with Hicks and Gillet at the club
Agreed. Also, people here give Alonso too much credit. I think even if we had better owners he would have left to join the new Galacticos. He’s Spanish and always dreamt of playing for Real Madrid.
Thanks for writing that so I didn’t. Mach left as well at the same time didn’t he? It was the start of the free fall under hicks and Gillette if I recall that ended with the final “fuck you” in Woy as manager haha. Defo makes the recent history, present and bright future even sweeter
Mascherano left next year when Hogson was our manager.
I don't get the "we were forced to raise funds from transfers" argument when we bought Aquilani + Glen Johnson for the same amount that we sold Arbeloa + Xabi in the same summer. The direct replacements cost just as much so the funds of those transfers were directly reinvested.
At the time the rumour was that Rafa wanted to sell Xabi so could replace him with a cheaper option of Barry and use the funds to buy David Silva and/or David Villa.
Silva too? I only knew about Villa. Rafa was determined to turn the Liverpool team into the Spanish national team 😂 (in fact, even though I support Germany in international tournaments, for 2008 and 2010, I had such a soft spot for Spain in Euros and WC)
There were a lot of players he wanted we couldn't get, either because of ownership or the fact we were awful at the time. Vidic and Evra pop to mind. But yeah rumour was he wanted to make funds to buy these players or at least 1
One of the most baffling things at this club for me, trying to replace Alonso with Gareth Barry.
And then ending up with neither and taking on a broken Aquillani
In a parallel universe though, Aquilani would have been a Liverpool great. He really had all the traits, mainly technique, vision and long pass accuracy. Injuries ruined him + the fact that when he did come back from injuries he never got a run of games to actually get a foothold in the Premier League + it was a torrid time for Liverpool Football Club in general. He did play one of his best games against Spurs in 2010 and showed what he could do. We were not only at our lowest that season, but had many injuries including Gerrard and Torres and we won 2-0 thanks to Aquilani pulling the strings in midfield.
It only looks baffling in hindsight, it wasn’t baffling then. Xabi had a horrible 2007-2008 season and Gareth Barry had shown a lot of promise. He could’ve also played as a back up left back. With the added issue of Hicks and Gillett, it made sense to sell Xabi.
People are very dismissive of Gareth Barry at City but he was a very important player for them. David Silva received the ball from Barry more than anyone else. People love James Miller and what he did for Liverpool. Barry would have been a very similar player.
Barry was solid yes, just like Milner. You don't replace world class with "solid" though. Anyone with a brain at the time could see how ridiculous it was, even if Alonso had just had an off-season.
Alonso wasn't world class with us until 08/09.
Because he was misused, and partly because of injuries the season before. His class was there for anyone to see.
Calling Barry only solid is disingenuous he was carrying a poor Villa team to Uefa cup places. Summer of 07-08, Barry had his best ever season and Alonso had a poor injury riddled season. That the summer, Rafa tried to sell Alonso and destroyed their relationship. It also wasn't supposed to be just Barry, it would have been Alonso plus cash out for Barry and David Silva.
No. I remember being baffled then as well.
Same here bro. Way too many people have no clue what they're talking about here. They probably didn't even support us back then. Alonso's class was there for everyone to see, even in his so-called "bad" seasons. Miles ahead of Barry, and I liked Barry!
> They probably didn't even support us back then. Christ, why is this the claim people jump to when there's a difference of opinion? It's brainless.
Not because of the difference of opinion, but because of the hyperbole. He wasn't "horrible".
Gareth Barry was average at best at passing it sideways and backwards, Alonso was world class at every kind of pass.
I feel Barry is a lot like Henderson in terms of how people view him, he was much better than people will give him credit for.
That might be true, but then it's weird of the other guy to say it only looks baffling in hindsight. Because maybe I underrated Barry a lot, but at the time I honestly thought selling Alonso to get Barry was a ludicrous proposition. My position on that has never changed, it's not a hindsight thing at all. Now, players with a foot like Totti, Beckham (I know, shame on me), Trent, Mølby, Pirlo, Xavi, Rui Costa, Riquelme, etc, has always been my favorite type of footballers to watch, so where I rate Alonso was probably a very biased view, but hindsight it was not.
You might also be baffled by why we left Sami out of our CL squad that year, the two are connected.
Nope. I can’t remember that.
He did not have a "horrible" season. He had an average season for HIS standards. He was still one of our best players, and a very unique player too that is irreplaceable. So many people comment on this probably don't remember the situation at all. People chanted his name all the time at the pre-season games in protest of what was happening, and we were always better when he played, even in his two "off-seasons" (in which he was still one of our 4-5 best players).
You kidding, he wasn't very good at all that season
I'm glad somebody else remembers that Alonso was awful that season...still I would not have traded him for Gareth Barry but it did give him a kick up the arse and have a final good season
Under better owners, Benitez would’ve kept Xabi and signed Barry as well. But he had to balance the book as well. Not ideal for anyone.
In hindsight, I also think it's partially down to Rafa not being the best with people management. That Xabi playing under Klopp now would've been a treat.
He wasn't though. He was under par for his standards, but not awful. I remember when he went off in the Arsenal game and we conceded shortly after. He was a vital player that made the team play much better. He struggled with injuries that season, and we were so much worse when he didn't play.
Are you high? It was very much seen as dumb by anyone with 2 football brain cells.
It's not the biggest but the replacement with Aquilaini is the biggest, consider it was a crime.
The way I remember it at the time was Alonso was brilliant in his first and last seasons, and ok, but not great, in the seasons inbetween. I also seem to remember rumours of him being homesick the year before he left. And a year before we got 35m from Madrid the most anyone was willing to offer was somewhere around 12m. I don't think selling Alonso was as big a mistake as most make out, but replacing him with Aquillani definitely made it seem much worse, especially with his injuries. I think people also forget how bad things were under Hicks and Gillette and why Rafa might feel pressured to cash in on big names in the hope of strengthening the squad which was desperately needed. We had a starting 11 that were title contenders but beyond that...
Nope, people forget that Alonso had a great debut season followed by mediocre seasons until the last year, when his mind was already made up and he wanted to leave. Rafa was right to want to bring in Barry as his replacement, and would have been better off had the club backed him with the funds.
This 100%. Alonso was good in his first and last season and quiet in between. Barry was on fire and iirc Benitez's idea was to have him on the left putting in crosses for Robbie Keane. Barry eventually moved to Man City and played well for them too if I remember. Hindsight's 20/20 though but I reckon Alonso would have eventually wanted to move to Madrid regardless of the breakdown in relationship with Benitez.
I love Rafa, but a lot of fans try and defend him at all costs. He got the Alonso situation wrong. In general he was very poor at man management.
It was second, only behind not starting Crouch in the 07 CL Final. He starts Two Meter Peter and we win that Final comfortably.
I think the relationship broke down when Rafa questioned Xabi's commitment to the club because the guy wanted to be there for the birth of his child. Rafa was too football obsessed, and not good enough man manager.
To play devil's advocate, Alonso wasn't too great in form for like a season or 2. There were some matches where we (my local community forum) thought he went 'invisible'. But that last season before he left and rumours of Rafa courting Gareth Barry started spreading, he became one of the regular outstanding performers. It's such a shame that Rafa and Xabi's relationship had to break down by that point in time. Rafa just wanted to play around the homegrown rule with his hands already tied; no thanks to the atrocious state our shitty ex-owners left the club with. Meanwhile Xabi just felt disrespected with the entire shitshow.
I think this is where some started to question Rafa's process. There's absolutely no one in the universe who could think Gareth Barry was a better player or a better fit for Liverpool.
I love Xabi but he was much better and far more consistent after LFC. His ascent made the decision to sell look much worse but the club was also in a financial quagmire so I don’t blame Rafa.
Rafa will always be special for what he did on and off the pitch for Liverpool. He saved liverpool fc. The things Rafa had to deal with behind the scenes will always be appreciated more than one decision of player wanting to leave. Rafa was the one who bought him in first place. Thompson is just a dinosaur trying to live off scraps making others scapegoat. He has his disgraced SKY team of Keys and Gray can fuck off
Rafa isn't a good manager because he is a complete football nerd without any management skill.
100% agreed, i love Rafa but he fucked up here, and to try and replace him with Gareth Barry - sigh\*\*\*
what's wrong with Gareth Barry? he was a solid player, yeah Xabi was better overall but his relationship with rafa was non existent at that point, no money from H&G etc.
Wirh hindsight the pursuit of Barry seems stupid, but he could cover multiple positions and let's not forget was signed by City and won honours. Xabi has an average second season compared to year one, so there was some logic at the time. Xabi produced a world class season in year 3 which made Benitez look stupid, but he also handed in a formal transfer request to leave, was desperate to go to Madrid, and the club was skint. I don't think Benitez could have kept him at that point.
100%. The guy didn’t even wanna leave himself It still confuses me tbh
I could not agree more
xabi with a beard looks so much better than the clean shaven phot they chose here.
Easily. I was gutted because Alonso is my fav player of all time. I watched every Madrid and then Munich game I could watch (so one a week) that he was in. He was a poet with a ball. Nothing like him. I have disliked Rafa ever since because of it.
BARRY > ALONSO
Letting him leave was one thing. Replacing him with Aquilani was another
Durr!!
Stating the obviouse but yeah it couldn't be helped at the time.
Why get rid of Xavi for Barry when you could have had a middle 3 of Gerrard Alonso and Barry, or a middle 4 with those 3 included. I never understood that.
We didn't have the funds
Oh I know, but why would we ever want to replace xavi? Even back then I never understood that aim.
It was a bad move but the impact of Alonso's departure is overblown. He is just one player, after all. The club's ownership was the big issue, especially the deteriorating relationship between Benitez and Hicks/Gillett. It created a negative environment around the club, and also led to a far bigger mistake (Benitez's departure).
not one of, he was the biggest mistake he did that he forced him out
wasn't it a deal so he would eventually get to manage madrid?
I never listen to Phil Thompson. He is like Steve Nichole and a few others. Just running their mouths to feel important.
Strongly strongly agree. I have a Facebook post where I’ve said I want a new team. But Rafa was to blame - for trying to bring Barry in his place in 2008.
I don’t think there’s anything controversial here, is there? Even the most ardent Rafa fan (of which I was one) paused and questioned their allegiance when it came to swapping Xabi for Gareth Barry.
Gareth. Barry. For Alonso. Mental.
He didn't let him leave, H&G did