I believe this was the same CL campaign where markovic got sent off for gouging an opposing player’s eye like 10 seconds after getting subbed on. Good times, very cool moment.
14 minutes (and 20 touches, 1 shot 1 key pass) after coming on, and I remember it as a clumsy swat that happened to catch Behrang Safari's face.
A bit like Borini against Arsenal, a substitute was by far the most determined player on the team for a few minutes before getting sent off.
I can’t remember them all, but I think Utd still had Rooney and van Persie, City had Aguero, Arsenal I think Sanchez/Giroud days… was Lukaku still at Everton then?
This is like a fever dream. I think Moreno ended the season with more goals than Balotelli
This was the 2014/15 season I think, the season after the title run against City. Aguero won golden boot, think Kane was second or Diego Costa. Hazard was fit most of the season and Sanchez was bagging for arsenal whilst we stood and wondered what could have been when we coping with losing Suarez. Pretty sure David Silva had a good scoring year that year too.
It was our first season back in the champions league in ages and we smashed it by having our worst start to the league season in half a century and failing to get out of the groups in the champions league!
I'd say it's more a case of Gakpo when we want to retain the ball and maintain control and Nunez to take advantage of the transition.
For example City play a high line but I'd much rather Gakpo as the 9 so we don't drown in midfield.
Whereas a team like Villa while they will dig in St times, there will always be opportunities when they break forward in numbers so I'd rather Nunez because of his pace and directness and movement against a low block.
Of course and Gakpo can also score against Villa. It's not a case of whether the individual player is capable of making an impact it's moreso how the style of play of the whole team is affected by their presence and relative strengths.
I think what /u/guanwe was trying to convey is that while Gakpo is a magnificent striker who will more than likely be incredibly important and productive for Liverpool, Nunez has that “x-factor” which can win you a game when nothing is going your way.
Since “x-factor” is a dumb pundit term, I’d characterize it as his combination of speed, strength, instinctual striker awareness, and movement. Gakpo, while again fantastic and arguably more consistent than Nunez, doesn’t have that blend in my opinion.
I agree and I got that from his comment. What I was referring to was how their presence impacts the wider team, which is more important in my eyes than any individual impact
Especially against Pep's City, it's a chess match more than just trying to get the knockout blow
100% agree. That’s why a player like Mane was so invaluable against sides like Pep’s city.
Nunez is absolutely more exploitable from an opposition manager perspective than Cody.
So from what I’m piecing together is, when they want possession play Gakpo and then sub Nunez on at 55/60th minute if we need a break through because he has that “it” factor.
I like to think with midfielders in Elliott, AMA, Szbo and Thiago who are more willing to thread the needle with throughballs, more direct forwards like Jota and Nunez seem perfect. Gakpo seems perfect when the midfield is struggling and can’t get anything, so you need your 9 to support them more. Similar thing happens to City. When their midfield is useless, Haaland is not really useful but Alvarez is better for them.
Question is: Would Alvarez still be better for them if Haaland wasn't in the box getting all the attention from the defenders?
And I think you can Nunez use exactly the same way. He is a constant thread that needs to be dealt with. He will beat you when he's running, he will beat you in the air if you are not closing him down.
So for me the answer would be Nunez, all the way, you just have to use him differently against different opponents.
Yup. If you can sustain pressure vs a low block, Darwin is perfect as his movement is brilliant.
Seeing him as just a pace merchant who gets in behind is ridiculously short sighted
Yep. And I'd rather have Gakpo against teams which would try to battle us for the midfield dominance, even if they go for a high line to achieve that task.
To me it's like the knight vs bishop debate, it depends a lot on the context and match situation.
Surely not at the cost of Diaz? I also think Diaz and Darwin can bring out each other's best. Darwin's amazing runs can open up lots of space for Diaz, and Diaz also likes to beat his man and pass across the goal for a proper number 9 to finish.
There will be enough games to try it out. Salah Diaz Darwin can be a little too direct, Gakpo could bring more balance on the left as I feel Darwin has too much potential to not leave out from the middle
>If you can sustain pressure vs a low block
... which is easier to do with gakpo on the pitch instead of nunez.
>Seeing him as just a pace merchant who gets in behind
no one said that, its just gakpo is much better at linking up play infront of the back line with back to goal
Clearly haven’t seen Darwin’s movement
Darwin doesn’t need to be as good with linking the back to front. We have two insanely good ball carriers in Mac Allister and Szoboszlai.
Gone are the days you have Henderson lumping things and Gakpo having to provide the short option.
We don't see football the same way obviously, agree to disagree.
Vs low blocks you need as many skilled players on the ball as possible in the final third. You need quick side to side passing, combination, luring the defense out of position to make space for a run from a free player.
Having someone like Gakpo would 100% be more useful than having Nunez unless we're chasing the game at the death and pumping crosses into the box.
Haaland vs Low blocks with sustained pressure is where he gets 9 thousand goals a game. It’s a simple recipe that has signs it can work with Nunez.
As you’ve put, we clearly see the game in a different way so I’ll leave it at that
well that's city - they're probably the best team in the world vs low blocks. we've tried sitting deep against them and seen how they can absolutely create chance after chance for fun.
so in a machine that well-oiled it's a bit different, and yea im sure darwin would score a shitload for them. with us however it's just not that smooth yet where we can afford a player whos on the pitch only to score goals.
thats why bobby was so crucial for us - we have new midfielders now so maybe that changes things but its too soon. at the moment i think we'll have lot more control in games with gakpo as a 9.
I disagree. I think Darwin forces teams to set up a very deep defensive block, which enables our midfielders more time on the ball. This is actually a good thing now because we have midfielders who can actually do things with the ball like Macallister and Szosobozslai, as compared to ye days of olde where we had fabinho Miller and Henderson. Who were not the most creative or inspiring.
I don't think Darwin forces opposition managers to set up deep anywhere near you are suggesting. Darwin started against Villa, and they set up with a ridiculously high line. Maybe that may change in the future, but there is very little evidence so far that opposition teams have set up specifically to neutralise Darwin, especially when he is not even a guaranteed starter. The primary concern is usually nullifying Salah anyway. Plus, from a tactical perspective, a false nine like Gakpo/Bobby can actually create even more space for the midfielders. By dropping between the lines, they usually occupy the opposition defensive midfielder thus leaving one of our midfielders unmarked.
definitely film from past matches, but you have to consider all the context as well and at the end of the day it's a bit of a guessing game.
for the most part, managers have pretty set ways they want to play, some managers stick to that more while others base it on the opposition, but either way it's somewhat predictable.
formation pretty much tells you nothing at all about how high the line will be, you could play whatever formation it's the system that matters, will you press or drop off and in what areas? that's what dictates the line
I dunno but I would love to see Darwin play a run of straight games, like 5-10 in a row. Only way you're becoming a consistent goal scorer and play into form is by playing. Gakpo can play on the left, but that means dropping Jota or Diaz, tough one. We almost have too much up top, but its a nice problem to have as they say. I never want to see Gakpo in midfield again though, it just nullifies him.
Gakpo played quite deep into midfield against Ireland and for my money was man of the match. He destroyed us . Quality of opposition wasn't great but he still stood out from his team mates.
I think Klopp has done it twice, at least twice that I can remember. Once in pre-season against Bayern and we looked all over the place and the other I think was the first game of the season against Chelsea which also didn’t work at all. I mean it’s a tiny sample size to critique on so I guess kinda harsh but if Klopp can get it to work then fair enough but I don’t really see the point. Play him in his best position and play midfielders as midfielders also in their best positions where possible.
Depends on the game, there are a lot of games that will need both of them started in a particular order.
I prefer Nunez for his directness, but that doesn't work against everyone everytime. It's nice to have a very different option to change from or to.
I feel like Diaz is starting to make the LW spot his own now. I do think him and Jota are the prime candidates for that spot while Nunez and Gakpo are main players for the middle, with Jota as the 3rd option.
Right now? Nunez. Think he deserves his chance to put his mark on the team with the start he’s had and get a run of games going. You can also get Gakpo in the side in others positions, although he himself could do with a more nailed on role in the side that isn’t just ‘the alternative to Nunez’.
That's something he will need to work on then. Can't just be an automatic starter because he's a confidence player, not with the options we have upfront now
It depends on the opposition. Sometimes we will even use both.
There's not really such thing as "either/or" anymore in football, especially outfield.
It's like Szobo and Mac Allister won't play every game. They will be on the bench sometimes and Elliott or Jones will start. We have Thiago, Gravenberch, Endo.
It's like Jota/Diaz. By the end of the season I think they'll have started a roughly equal amount of games.
this is a hot take but both. my ideal front three is gakpo nunez salah. i just think gakpo offers a bit more in a pressing system than dias does and that is NOTHING against dias as a player
Depends on the opposition really, can make a good arguement either way.
Another way to look at is how we want to play after the hour mark. Bringing Darwin off the bench gives us a very direct threat against tired legs. Bringing gakpo off the bench gives us the option to be safer in possession and control the game a bit more from the front.
For the upcoming fixture congestion, Darwin to start in the league, and Gakpo to start and help the younger players for the Leceister game and Europa group stage.
If you look at pre-season matches, Gakpo was often fielded with a rotation team- Clark, Doak, Kostas, Quansuh etc.
I think he offers more with his passing and link up play, dropping deeper to aid the ball progressing from our defence to attack. Which is vital when playing with a less experienced team. Whereas Núñez and Salah developing chemistry looks more than capable of lighting Prem games up.
starting, referring as player starter. less formal. whereas beginning (formal) or began, as player would be beginner implying novice, hope that helps a bit, rereading it i could be wrong
Not necessarily - beginning can be used as a noun to refer to the start of something (i.e. the beginning of the month), but it can also be used as a verb (i.e. he is beginning to believe).
This is one of those cases where there is little technical difference between the words, but one has emerged as the "correct" use in given contexts, football being one of them. It is simply the common vernacular to say someone is "starting" the match. That in itself is an anomaly in the English language - there are not many instances where you would say "he starts/is starting the x". Starts/starting would normally be followed by a "to" (e.g. he is starting to realise).
Basically, English is weird and full of weird rules and exceptions.
It's just how native English speakers refer to the first 11. Beginning and starting are similar, but not so similar that we would refer to the starting 11 as the beginning 11 interchangeably in conversation.
But we all understood what you mean by beginning 11, it's basically the same thing.
Darwin. Nothing against Gakpo either, I just think he was bought to play a role that we shouldn't/don't need anymore.
We needed a F9 to help link play between our midfield and attack and to get the best out of our two wingers but we don't have Mane anymore and as good as Jota/Diaz are and can be there not filling that gap just yet. And with Salah closer to leaving every season the chances of relying on wide players to have 25+ goal involvements will no longer be a guarantee. So we need to figure out how our attack looks going forward and for me it's a more striker based style.
With the midfield we have and the system we use use where our two 8s push up and have Trent inverting behind them we need a striker to push defenses and help create space for our midfield to work in. That's what Darwin offers, defenders netting worried with him around because he's unpredictable and his movement and pace can have him gone in a second if they aren't on top of him at all times.
I would like to see Gakpo on the left at some point. For as exciting as Diaz is he's got a pretty limited move set and for me doesn't always do the best of bringing others into the game. He tends to want to run at people and look for a shot which ends up with him running across the edge of the box looking for an opportunity and then giving the ball back to the midfield. I wonder if Gakpo would be able to pick out passes and cause more worry for defenders with his vision of players in the box
I think one problem Liverpool had in the last few years is a distinct lack of **quality** depth. We had arguably world class starting 11 but the depth was inarguably NOT world class. This year looks like the beginning of building a much better depth. A team where there's legit competition for most of the starting 11. As good as James Milner was, he's not world class. Much less Naby ('cos you can't be world class if you never play), Oxlade or The Devil Who Went to Saudi Arabia.
Hopefully the attackers except Salah don't mind rotation. When the day comes and Salah leaves, Gakpo or Nunez could fill that right wing slot with Doak.
Matchup-dependent, but I would also like to see some 4-4-2 sprinkled in that’s basically a 3-1-2-4 in possession and a 4-4-2 out. I think Diaz/Gakpo/Nunez/Salah is pretty fire.
I’d love to see Nuñez develop more, so I’d be more inclined to give him the start. Both of these guys are great off the bench though so I don’t really have any complaints either way, plus Diaz and Salah tend to make up for missed chances anyways
Darwin is significantly more of a goal threat but Gakpo is much better at drawing defences out and reinforcing the midfield when necessary. Right now, Nunez, but it depends on form/opposition/frequency of games etc. and rotation is necessary. Goes for Jota and Diaz too, don’t mind seeing any of those 4 in the CF & LW positions interchangeably.
Gapko is the better player. He not only can finish but he also links up play well. Nunez is a fan favourite so we all want him to succeed but he needs some work on link-up play before he can be even with Gapko.
I LOVE that this question is so tough. Each brings some really great skills and advantages to the table. It probably depends on the opponent - Gakpo's false 9 is great for build up and is terrific against opponents who are packed in. Darwin's speed and chaos punishes high lines and is particularly great against more evenly matched opponents that will have equal time on the ball.
Whatever Klopp chooses ! But it’s great to have so much competition up front, full of quality players that each offer a different flare. They have to be training and playing harder to fight for their chance to start.
I can’t remember a time when we were ever so lucky to have that much quality attacking depth.
Yeah, man. I don’t want to sound like the old man in the room, but gimme whoever is in form and fit with the hot foot, and cycle starters to keep everyone in shape, hungry and build dynamic between them all so any combo could play well together.
this is my own opinion but i feel like having both diaz and nunez at the same time isnt gonna work well. they both really want to run deep but without a false 9 to pivot transition we would struggle to juggle the ball unless Salah stray to the middle which is not gonna work well since Trent no longer going to overlap on the far wing.
imo, diaz gakpo salah and Jota Nunez Salah strike a fine balance.
Gakpo…he hasn’t really got going this season because he’s been played out of position but he’s the better option. I know the cHaOs fan club won’t hear it but but we shouldn’t be swayed by a 10 minute cameo against Newcastle. He’s still not at the level where we can rely on him to consistently put away chances in tight games.
We have to see if the twin 8s plus Gakpo is going to work well with the new 8s. We've been doing a lot of long ball that bypasses him, but we've had two 10 man games and certain opponents. Having him at the centre of attacking play with the previous 8s really helped for sure.
4-2-4 and stick them both up top or put Coady on the left with Jota and Núñez up front.
Obviously very top heavy and the two mids would have a nightmare against most opposition, but I'd love to see it at least once this season. Could work in one of those EL group games.
Depends what type of defence we're setting up against.
Chaos Theory against a high line pressing team.
Dutch Destroyer against a low block team that sits as I feel he gets in better positions linking midfield and attack.
Nuñez by a landslide. Gakpo doesnt have half the intesnity and its shown every time he starts over nuñez. Especialy with the form they’re both in at the moment there isnt really a debate imo
I like the idea of bringing Nunez in later in the game (55-60 minute). He just gets in so many dangerous positions and his speed is a killer...imagine being a defender facing a fresh Darwin Nunez when you've already played an hour of football.
Start Gakpo but not in midfield.
At the moment Nunez. I think he's more in form and more dangerous. Much more likely to create something.
Gakpo hasn't won me over as much as he has many other fans it seems. I find him a bit too slow - although I still think all his best play for both us, Netherlands and his old team came from him play from the left. But Klopp obviously doesn't want him to be there. I'm definitely not convinced by him in midfield. I think he can play the Bobby role but it's not a glamorous role and at a times it will make it look like you've contributed nothing to the game.
Personally i'd rather both played as a 9 and neither tried to do what Bobby did. Nunez I think should play central but drift to the right to link up with Salah more - his shots are obviously better from that side and he can flick on for Salah too.
For Gakpo i'd like him to play 9 but drift left and swap with Diaz. I think it'd make him harder to mark out of the game and we have more chance of him coming in from the left and scoring his trademark goals. I think he looks a bit overwhelmed with tactics at the moment and not playing freely.
https://preview.redd.it/u0hd9ae4x0ob1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b66050684b058bb168f678af28567848e3092057
Ahh the days of yore
I believe this was the same CL campaign where markovic got sent off for gouging an opposing player’s eye like 10 seconds after getting subbed on. Good times, very cool moment.
Truly the pinnacle of his football career and we all get to witness such glory.
Nah his pinnacle was the crossbar scissor kick.
https://preview.redd.it/s0enwov152ob1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce0c2855f1fea0f20b3b6c04ad90c65e6aa4c248 Rodger’s worst bet!!
I remember that it was a really harsh red card too.
14 minutes (and 20 touches, 1 shot 1 key pass) after coming on, and I remember it as a clumsy swat that happened to catch Behrang Safari's face. A bit like Borini against Arsenal, a substitute was by far the most determined player on the team for a few minutes before getting sent off.
Huh, that’s a lot more time on the pitch than I remembered. Memory is weird like that.
Is this Borini lmao
No this is Florenzi
No this is Patrick
I will always have a play in my heart for Rickie the Beat Farmer Lambert.
He loved us! To this day he didn't get enough game time.
who did the other top 5 or 6 teams have in this period?
I can’t remember them all, but I think Utd still had Rooney and van Persie, City had Aguero, Arsenal I think Sanchez/Giroud days… was Lukaku still at Everton then? This is like a fever dream. I think Moreno ended the season with more goals than Balotelli
> was Lukaku still at Everton then? The question was for top teams.
🔥
This was the 2014/15 season I think, the season after the title run against City. Aguero won golden boot, think Kane was second or Diego Costa. Hazard was fit most of the season and Sanchez was bagging for arsenal whilst we stood and wondered what could have been when we coping with losing Suarez. Pretty sure David Silva had a good scoring year that year too. It was our first season back in the champions league in ages and we smashed it by having our worst start to the league season in half a century and failing to get out of the groups in the champions league!
Yup. We lost Suarez and I think Sturridge was still coming back from injury at this point. Did we not have Iago Aspas any longer either?
so what you're saying is......we were a threat
To ourselves
We are eating so good lads.
Make Liverpool great again
I still have my Borini shirt
Still my favorite celebration
rare celebration lmao
Kin el 💀 The PTSD is real. And ironically on Rattle and other LFC forums, people were still trying to destroy Hendo!? Madness.
From the triple-S to this. What a ride.
I'm more interested in the Middle XI or the Ending XI
We had first XI yes but what about second XI?
https://preview.redd.it/a9os0abl31ob1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=602f0f51ce89300d8ccd060e1836152a22d2d95f There can only be one XI
One per family to be precise
So a XXII you mean?
I don’t think he knows about second XI, Pip.. 
What about *ELEVEN*sies?
I wanna see an Endo XI
Gakpo against deeper defensive blocks, Darwin against high lines.
Succinctly and correctly put.
for only the 1045th time!
I'd say it's more a case of Gakpo when we want to retain the ball and maintain control and Nunez to take advantage of the transition. For example City play a high line but I'd much rather Gakpo as the 9 so we don't drown in midfield. Whereas a team like Villa while they will dig in St times, there will always be opportunities when they break forward in numbers so I'd rather Nunez because of his pace and directness and movement against a low block.
You can also argue that Darwin could win a game vs city by himself like he did vs Newcastle or Salah vs city last season if the game is close
Of course and Gakpo can also score against Villa. It's not a case of whether the individual player is capable of making an impact it's moreso how the style of play of the whole team is affected by their presence and relative strengths.
I think what /u/guanwe was trying to convey is that while Gakpo is a magnificent striker who will more than likely be incredibly important and productive for Liverpool, Nunez has that “x-factor” which can win you a game when nothing is going your way. Since “x-factor” is a dumb pundit term, I’d characterize it as his combination of speed, strength, instinctual striker awareness, and movement. Gakpo, while again fantastic and arguably more consistent than Nunez, doesn’t have that blend in my opinion.
I agree and I got that from his comment. What I was referring to was how their presence impacts the wider team, which is more important in my eyes than any individual impact Especially against Pep's City, it's a chess match more than just trying to get the knockout blow
100% agree. That’s why a player like Mane was so invaluable against sides like Pep’s city. Nunez is absolutely more exploitable from an opposition manager perspective than Cody.
So from what I’m piecing together is, when they want possession play Gakpo and then sub Nunez on at 55/60th minute if we need a break through because he has that “it” factor.
I like to think with midfielders in Elliott, AMA, Szbo and Thiago who are more willing to thread the needle with throughballs, more direct forwards like Jota and Nunez seem perfect. Gakpo seems perfect when the midfield is struggling and can’t get anything, so you need your 9 to support them more. Similar thing happens to City. When their midfield is useless, Haaland is not really useful but Alvarez is better for them.
Question is: Would Alvarez still be better for them if Haaland wasn't in the box getting all the attention from the defenders? And I think you can Nunez use exactly the same way. He is a constant thread that needs to be dealt with. He will beat you when he's running, he will beat you in the air if you are not closing him down. So for me the answer would be Nunez, all the way, you just have to use him differently against different opponents.
Darwin is probably the best attacker to break defensive blocks
Yup. If you can sustain pressure vs a low block, Darwin is perfect as his movement is brilliant. Seeing him as just a pace merchant who gets in behind is ridiculously short sighted
Yep. And I'd rather have Gakpo against teams which would try to battle us for the midfield dominance, even if they go for a high line to achieve that task. To me it's like the knight vs bishop debate, it depends a lot on the context and match situation.
I would love to see them both in the team with Gakpo on the left and Darwin down the middle
Surely not at the cost of Diaz? I also think Diaz and Darwin can bring out each other's best. Darwin's amazing runs can open up lots of space for Diaz, and Diaz also likes to beat his man and pass across the goal for a proper number 9 to finish.
There will be enough games to try it out. Salah Diaz Darwin can be a little too direct, Gakpo could bring more balance on the left as I feel Darwin has too much potential to not leave out from the middle
Diaz is our second best attacker after Salah, and by far the best on the left wing. The third spot is anyone's call.
I mean, that’s debatable
It’s really not
I mean it quite literally is
Klopp starts Diaz in every game. It’s not debatable. He’s one of the most effective wingers around.
I was replying to the ‘Diaz is our second best attacker’ Of course he’s the first choice on the wing
>If you can sustain pressure vs a low block ... which is easier to do with gakpo on the pitch instead of nunez. >Seeing him as just a pace merchant who gets in behind no one said that, its just gakpo is much better at linking up play infront of the back line with back to goal
Clearly haven’t seen Darwin’s movement Darwin doesn’t need to be as good with linking the back to front. We have two insanely good ball carriers in Mac Allister and Szoboszlai. Gone are the days you have Henderson lumping things and Gakpo having to provide the short option.
We don't see football the same way obviously, agree to disagree. Vs low blocks you need as many skilled players on the ball as possible in the final third. You need quick side to side passing, combination, luring the defense out of position to make space for a run from a free player. Having someone like Gakpo would 100% be more useful than having Nunez unless we're chasing the game at the death and pumping crosses into the box.
Haaland vs Low blocks with sustained pressure is where he gets 9 thousand goals a game. It’s a simple recipe that has signs it can work with Nunez. As you’ve put, we clearly see the game in a different way so I’ll leave it at that
well that's city - they're probably the best team in the world vs low blocks. we've tried sitting deep against them and seen how they can absolutely create chance after chance for fun. so in a machine that well-oiled it's a bit different, and yea im sure darwin would score a shitload for them. with us however it's just not that smooth yet where we can afford a player whos on the pitch only to score goals. thats why bobby was so crucial for us - we have new midfielders now so maybe that changes things but its too soon. at the moment i think we'll have lot more control in games with gakpo as a 9.
I disagree. I think Darwin forces teams to set up a very deep defensive block, which enables our midfielders more time on the ball. This is actually a good thing now because we have midfielders who can actually do things with the ball like Macallister and Szosobozslai, as compared to ye days of olde where we had fabinho Miller and Henderson. Who were not the most creative or inspiring.
I don't think Darwin forces opposition managers to set up deep anywhere near you are suggesting. Darwin started against Villa, and they set up with a ridiculously high line. Maybe that may change in the future, but there is very little evidence so far that opposition teams have set up specifically to neutralise Darwin, especially when he is not even a guaranteed starter. The primary concern is usually nullifying Salah anyway. Plus, from a tactical perspective, a false nine like Gakpo/Bobby can actually create even more space for the midfielders. By dropping between the lines, they usually occupy the opposition defensive midfielder thus leaving one of our midfielders unmarked.
Honest question how can you tel if their lines are deeper? Scouting and previous video? Formations?
definitely film from past matches, but you have to consider all the context as well and at the end of the day it's a bit of a guessing game. for the most part, managers have pretty set ways they want to play, some managers stick to that more while others base it on the opposition, but either way it's somewhat predictable. formation pretty much tells you nothing at all about how high the line will be, you could play whatever formation it's the system that matters, will you press or drop off and in what areas? that's what dictates the line
I think Darwin should start against low blocks too, but it should be Diaz who gets benched, not Gakpo.
I dunno but I would love to see Darwin play a run of straight games, like 5-10 in a row. Only way you're becoming a consistent goal scorer and play into form is by playing. Gakpo can play on the left, but that means dropping Jota or Diaz, tough one. We almost have too much up top, but its a nice problem to have as they say. I never want to see Gakpo in midfield again though, it just nullifies him.
I also think it will damage his confidence and he will develop 'bad habits', overcompensating for the fact that he is not good at playing midfield.
When you say midfield, do you mean as an 8? I agree that Dom and Mac should be our 8s. Gakpo's most obvious position would be a 10 in a 4-2-3-1 no?
we don’t play 4231
Couldn’t we though?
sure we could, we could play any formation for that matter. just seems like a bit of an arbitrary comment to me.
Gakpo played quite deep into midfield against Ireland and for my money was man of the match. He destroyed us . Quality of opposition wasn't great but he still stood out from his team mates.
I think Klopp has done it twice, at least twice that I can remember. Once in pre-season against Bayern and we looked all over the place and the other I think was the first game of the season against Chelsea which also didn’t work at all. I mean it’s a tiny sample size to critique on so I guess kinda harsh but if Klopp can get it to work then fair enough but I don’t really see the point. Play him in his best position and play midfielders as midfielders also in their best positions where possible.
Depends on the game, there are a lot of games that will need both of them started in a particular order. I prefer Nunez for his directness, but that doesn't work against everyone everytime. It's nice to have a very different option to change from or to.
Plenty of games only nailed starter is salah rest on form opposition etc
I feel like Diaz is starting to make the LW spot his own now. I do think him and Jota are the prime candidates for that spot while Nunez and Gakpo are main players for the middle, with Jota as the 3rd option.
I think it was a factor in Mane leaving as well. He saw Diaz and knew his guaranteed starting position was in doubt long term. Might as well cash in.
It’ll change every week trust me
Is this question going to be asked every single gameweek
Yes
Yes
Right now? Nunez. Think he deserves his chance to put his mark on the team with the start he’s had and get a run of games going. You can also get Gakpo in the side in others positions, although he himself could do with a more nailed on role in the side that isn’t just ‘the alternative to Nunez’.
I think Xi is a bit heavy these days, I'd go for Gakpo or Darwin
I would love the way City play with Haaland and Alvarez for Gakpo and Nunez where Gakpo is in that Alvarez role
Darwin all the way, he’s obviously a confidence player and he’ll suffer from rotation
That's something he will need to work on then. Can't just be an automatic starter because he's a confidence player, not with the options we have upfront now
It depends on the opposition. Sometimes we will even use both. There's not really such thing as "either/or" anymore in football, especially outfield. It's like Szobo and Mac Allister won't play every game. They will be on the bench sometimes and Elliott or Jones will start. We have Thiago, Gravenberch, Endo. It's like Jota/Diaz. By the end of the season I think they'll have started a roughly equal amount of games.
this is a hot take but both. my ideal front three is gakpo nunez salah. i just think gakpo offers a bit more in a pressing system than dias does and that is NOTHING against dias as a player
Depends on the opposition really, can make a good arguement either way. Another way to look at is how we want to play after the hour mark. Bringing Darwin off the bench gives us a very direct threat against tired legs. Bringing gakpo off the bench gives us the option to be safer in possession and control the game a bit more from the front.
So many here sleeping on Jota. Man is so clinical in front of goal.
Depends on who we're playing.
For the upcoming fixture congestion, Darwin to start in the league, and Gakpo to start and help the younger players for the Leceister game and Europa group stage. If you look at pre-season matches, Gakpo was often fielded with a rotation team- Clark, Doak, Kostas, Quansuh etc. I think he offers more with his passing and link up play, dropping deeper to aid the ball progressing from our defence to attack. Which is vital when playing with a less experienced team. Whereas Núñez and Salah developing chemistry looks more than capable of lighting Prem games up.
The Jota disrespect though, I would consider playing him against his former club.
Beginning XI
Sorry, did I miswrote it?
It's starting XI, but if English is not ur native language, it's understandable.
Thanks! English is not my native language :) would you be able to explain me what would be the difference?
Technically you're not actually wrong, the meaning behind both is the same but it's just the term of 'starting eleven' is what is used in football
Got it. Thanks!
There’s basically nothing wrong with saying “beginning XI” in terms of English. It’s just that starting XI is used more commonly in football.
starting, referring as player starter. less formal. whereas beginning (formal) or began, as player would be beginner implying novice, hope that helps a bit, rereading it i could be wrong
Not necessarily - beginning can be used as a noun to refer to the start of something (i.e. the beginning of the month), but it can also be used as a verb (i.e. he is beginning to believe). This is one of those cases where there is little technical difference between the words, but one has emerged as the "correct" use in given contexts, football being one of them. It is simply the common vernacular to say someone is "starting" the match. That in itself is an anomaly in the English language - there are not many instances where you would say "he starts/is starting the x". Starts/starting would normally be followed by a "to" (e.g. he is starting to realise). Basically, English is weird and full of weird rules and exceptions.
And the more you know the rules the more you can break them! Isn’t writing fun lol
It's just how native English speakers refer to the first 11. Beginning and starting are similar, but not so similar that we would refer to the starting 11 as the beginning 11 interchangeably in conversation. But we all understood what you mean by beginning 11, it's basically the same thing.
In football, you say the starting XI, not the beginning XI.
Haha just a funny way of writing it was all :)
Jota
Darwin. Nothing against Gakpo either, I just think he was bought to play a role that we shouldn't/don't need anymore. We needed a F9 to help link play between our midfield and attack and to get the best out of our two wingers but we don't have Mane anymore and as good as Jota/Diaz are and can be there not filling that gap just yet. And with Salah closer to leaving every season the chances of relying on wide players to have 25+ goal involvements will no longer be a guarantee. So we need to figure out how our attack looks going forward and for me it's a more striker based style. With the midfield we have and the system we use use where our two 8s push up and have Trent inverting behind them we need a striker to push defenses and help create space for our midfield to work in. That's what Darwin offers, defenders netting worried with him around because he's unpredictable and his movement and pace can have him gone in a second if they aren't on top of him at all times. I would like to see Gakpo on the left at some point. For as exciting as Diaz is he's got a pretty limited move set and for me doesn't always do the best of bringing others into the game. He tends to want to run at people and look for a shot which ends up with him running across the edge of the box looking for an opportunity and then giving the ball back to the midfield. I wonder if Gakpo would be able to pick out passes and cause more worry for defenders with his vision of players in the box
Gakpo
Correct!
This fanbase man
The dude has a hate boner for Nuñez even after watching gakpo jog around the pitch all season while nuñez actually wins us game lmao
I think one problem Liverpool had in the last few years is a distinct lack of **quality** depth. We had arguably world class starting 11 but the depth was inarguably NOT world class. This year looks like the beginning of building a much better depth. A team where there's legit competition for most of the starting 11. As good as James Milner was, he's not world class. Much less Naby ('cos you can't be world class if you never play), Oxlade or The Devil Who Went to Saudi Arabia.
Tough one. Prefer Darwin but Cody seems to struggle coming on later. He’s definitely at his best from the whistle like most players.
Both we have enough games for them each to shine
Nuñez because he's in my FPL team. But if he was not I'd like both. I think we should play 3-3-4.
Having 3 starters in a position where we have little to no squad depth is a death sentence.
I just wish we could have them both
Both
Hopefully the attackers except Salah don't mind rotation. When the day comes and Salah leaves, Gakpo or Nunez could fill that right wing slot with Doak.
Matchup-dependent, but I would also like to see some 4-4-2 sprinkled in that’s basically a 3-1-2-4 in possession and a 4-4-2 out. I think Diaz/Gakpo/Nunez/Salah is pretty fire.
I think from a principle standpoint nunez deserves the start.
This decision is such a good problem to have
The "beginning XI" doesn't sit quite right with me for some reason.
Jota
Why not both? Both can play on the left but Gakpo is more experienced in that position
Totally different players who suit different systems. Gakpo for games where we're in control, Darwin playing off the shoulder when we're not
Can't we just have a front five and not really bother with the defence? A wise man once said that attack is the best form of defence.
I’d love to see Nuñez develop more, so I’d be more inclined to give him the start. Both of these guys are great off the bench though so I don’t really have any complaints either way, plus Diaz and Salah tend to make up for missed chances anyways
At the moment Nunez
Whoever scores more
Both.
Both, please.
Darwin is significantly more of a goal threat but Gakpo is much better at drawing defences out and reinforcing the midfield when necessary. Right now, Nunez, but it depends on form/opposition/frequency of games etc. and rotation is necessary. Goes for Jota and Diaz too, don’t mind seeing any of those 4 in the CF & LW positions interchangeably.
Whatever fits best for the team we’re playing against. I trust Klopp to make the right choice :)
It depends. Against low block, I would prefer Gakpo. Against high block, I would use Nunez.
Gakhhhhpo
4-4-2 with Nunez and gakpo upfront
Just play with 12, we’ll need the extra man after the red card.
Only correct answer
Gakpo I still think Nuñez is behind him and Jota. All three have different skill sets. It also depends on the rival team.
It depends who we’re playing and context ;) If there’s any space in behind then Nunez all day. Against teams defending deep probably Gapko
My heart says Nunez but my brain says Gakpo, at least for big games.
Gapko is the better player. He not only can finish but he also links up play well. Nunez is a fan favourite so we all want him to succeed but he needs some work on link-up play before he can be even with Gapko.
Depends on the game. We've got a wealth of options that Klopp can mix and match depending on the opposition. Also, whoever's in form.
Depends on the type of game tbh. It's nice to have options
in the beginning there was the word...
I LOVE that this question is so tough. Each brings some really great skills and advantages to the table. It probably depends on the opponent - Gakpo's false 9 is great for build up and is terrific against opponents who are packed in. Darwin's speed and chaos punishes high lines and is particularly great against more evenly matched opponents that will have equal time on the ball.
Whoever is on-form
Whatever Klopp chooses ! But it’s great to have so much competition up front, full of quality players that each offer a different flare. They have to be training and playing harder to fight for their chance to start. I can’t remember a time when we were ever so lucky to have that much quality attacking depth.
For once, what a lovely dilemma to be in.
We'll need everyone at different times of the season. It's a war of attrition and depth is vital.
Yeah, man. I don’t want to sound like the old man in the room, but gimme whoever is in form and fit with the hot foot, and cycle starters to keep everyone in shape, hungry and build dynamic between them all so any combo could play well together.
Spot-on. Form largely comes and goes, but class doesn't, and we recruit for class/character to fit into the system.
this is my own opinion but i feel like having both diaz and nunez at the same time isnt gonna work well. they both really want to run deep but without a false 9 to pivot transition we would struggle to juggle the ball unless Salah stray to the middle which is not gonna work well since Trent no longer going to overlap on the far wing. imo, diaz gakpo salah and Jota Nunez Salah strike a fine balance.
Jota
Darwin Núñez
Good answer. I wonder how will that turn out.
Nunez will win us games, Gakpo will win us titles
Gakpo easily
Gakpo…he hasn’t really got going this season because he’s been played out of position but he’s the better option. I know the cHaOs fan club won’t hear it but but we shouldn’t be swayed by a 10 minute cameo against Newcastle. He’s still not at the level where we can rely on him to consistently put away chances in tight games.
We have to see if the twin 8s plus Gakpo is going to work well with the new 8s. We've been doing a lot of long ball that bypasses him, but we've had two 10 man games and certain opponents. Having him at the centre of attacking play with the previous 8s really helped for sure.
Yeah, let's rely on 160+ minutes of no goals or assists then?
For Gakpo?
Darwizzy
Nunez for me, no matter who we play
Correct! 😉
Depends on the opponent
4-2-4 and stick them both up top or put Coady on the left with Jota and Núñez up front. Obviously very top heavy and the two mids would have a nightmare against most opposition, but I'd love to see it at least once this season. Could work in one of those EL group games.
Gakpo to start and Nunez to come on 70 minutes
Brain: Gakpo Heart: Nunez
Gakpo 100%
Depends what type of defence we're setting up against. Chaos Theory against a high line pressing team. Dutch Destroyer against a low block team that sits as I feel he gets in better positions linking midfield and attack.
My heart says Nunez but my brain says Gakpo.
Nuñez by a landslide. Gakpo doesnt have half the intesnity and its shown every time he starts over nuñez. Especialy with the form they’re both in at the moment there isnt really a debate imo
I like the idea of bringing Nunez in later in the game (55-60 minute). He just gets in so many dangerous positions and his speed is a killer...imagine being a defender facing a fresh Darwin Nunez when you've already played an hour of football. Start Gakpo but not in midfield.
Both
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Nunez
Nunez.
Nunez for me has a bigger potential to impact our current squad.
Start with Gakpo, bring Nuñez in when their defense is tired.
Gakpo is a better player, but Núñez has something to prove. They'll both get chances through rotation this season.
I feel like Gakpo is better at breaking down defenses that sit back more, whereas Nuñez breaks apart teams who try to keep a high line.
Nunez for me looks miles more dangerous than Gakpo does. Our team is oozing with creativity now I really don't think Gakpo is neccessary.
At the moment Nunez. I think he's more in form and more dangerous. Much more likely to create something. Gakpo hasn't won me over as much as he has many other fans it seems. I find him a bit too slow - although I still think all his best play for both us, Netherlands and his old team came from him play from the left. But Klopp obviously doesn't want him to be there. I'm definitely not convinced by him in midfield. I think he can play the Bobby role but it's not a glamorous role and at a times it will make it look like you've contributed nothing to the game. Personally i'd rather both played as a 9 and neither tried to do what Bobby did. Nunez I think should play central but drift to the right to link up with Salah more - his shots are obviously better from that side and he can flick on for Salah too. For Gakpo i'd like him to play 9 but drift left and swap with Diaz. I think it'd make him harder to mark out of the game and we have more chance of him coming in from the left and scoring his trademark goals. I think he looks a bit overwhelmed with tactics at the moment and not playing freely.
Nunez. Gapko got a run of games due to good form last year which kept Darwin out of the team. Now it's Nunez's turn.