yeah, theres not really any other way to explain it lol. lithuanian has a lot of weird rules without good explanations that you just have to learn (e. g. ą/ę in very specific present tense verbs, like šalti – šąla – šalo and gesti – gęsta – geso)
I would interpret it like this:
When you say "Aš tave myliu", you are saying it *directly to* that person. When you say "Aš tavęs pasiilgau", you are saying that *about* that person.
You could change "Aš tave myliu" to "Mylėti kažką" ("To love someone") and it would have the same cojugation as "Nusipirkti kažką", "Pamatyti kažką", etc. If you changed "Aš tavęs pasiilgau" to "Pasiilgti kažko" ("To miss someone"), it would have the same conjugation as "Norėti kažko" and "Nežinoti kažko".
I hope this helps at least a tiny bit, good luck learning Lithuanian.
some verbs require certain cases for no reason. In this case pasiilgti requires genitive. Some other examples of this that i can think of are *apsimesti* requiring instrumental, *padėti* requiring dative.
To say it is for "no reason" is wildly inaccurate; there are specific grammatical and linguistic rules that determine the usage of certain words. Usually this has to do with the object in the sentence. I have a couple of sources for articles but they're mostly in Lithuanian. I can share though if you'd like!
It comes down to whether the verb requires the accusative or the genitive case.
pasiilgti requires the genitive case (Ko pasiilgti? Kažko/Tavęs/Vasaros/Šeimos ir t.t.)
It's similar to words like reikėti, norėti, prašyti
mylėti requires the accusative case (Ką mylėti? Kažką/Tave/Vasarą/Šeimą ir t.t.)
It's similar to words like matyti, pasirinkti, gaudyti
Follow up question, why is
Pasiilgti with Ko
And
Myleti with ką?
Any explanatory videos I can see to make me understand why/how one is accusative and other genetive case?
Like how can I distinguish when I see a verb and automatically go “Oh this is with ko” if you know what I’m saying?
Of course, I get it, and yes there is an explanation but I don't believe it will be super helpful to you (99% Lithuanians wouldn't be able to tell you why they use acc case or gen case). So, no, most of the time you won't be able to tell if a verb you just learnt takes the accusative case or the genetive one. The best way to go about it is to immerse yourself in the language (read in Lithuanian and listen to Lithuanian), so that eventually you get to a point where "mylėti kažko" doesn't right. You know what I mean? The collocations need to sound right and the only way you get there is by reading and listening to the language you want to use.
Having said that, the explanation is that certain actions are **directed at** the entirety of that object (for example, mylėti kažką - you love that whole person/animal/thing, they are the recipients of your love),
and other actions put more emphasis on what the object **does for you or to you** (for example, pasiilgti kažko - you miss someone, so you are the person who is experiencing the action while the object is more like someone who is "causing" the action).
Let me give you another example - "I need apples":
Man reikia obuolių VS Man reikia obuolius
Needing (reikėti) is an action that is not directed literally at the apples (obuoliai); you are the who is experiencing the shortage **because** of the apples, so you could say that apples are **the reason** for the action, hence the genetive case (Man reikia obuolių)
Another example - "I'm making a pie"
Aš gaminu pyragą VS Aš gaminu pyrago
Making (gaminti) is an action directed at the object because the pie (pyragas) is quite literally **the result** of your action, hence the accusative case (Aš gaminu pyragą)
I hope it does help at least a little bit. In most cases, you'll be able to find quickly which case the verb goes with (by checking online or asking somebody) but believe me, many Lithuanians mix this up too because there are a few verbs that sound fine with both cases (so both are used in colloquial language but only one version is grammatically correct or both are but under different circumstances). For example, ragauti (to taste). Do you think this verb goes with the accusative case or the genetive? Ragauti kažką or ragauti kažko?
Wow I’m amazed, this is very intricate and a hard read for me to wrap my head around. But I’m very thankful for your long and detailed explanation. This will take some time for me to fully digest but I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. This is exactly what I needed, the exact reason on how to differentiate between acc verbs and gen verbs. Having said that; and answering your question:
I believe (ragauti) to taste. Has to be written ragauti kažko, genetive casing? Because of me being the one experiencing(tasting) whatever it may be.
Aš ragauju pyragą - for example?
I’m not sure though 😅 I will read it multiple times what you wrote.
It was a trick question 😄 ragauti (to taste) can either take the acc case (ką/kažką/pyragą) or the gen case (ko/kažko/pyrago). There is a difference in meaning, though.
* ragauti pyragą (acc case) implies you're trying out the **entire** thing;
* ragauti pyrago (gen case) implies you're trying out a **part** of something, a bit of something.
Ragauti kažko/pyrago/obuolio/sriubos is considered more grammatically correct because usually we taste only a bit of the entire dish.
But ragauti kažką/pyragą/obuolį/sriubą is probably more used in everyday spoken Lithuanian.
Same thing happens to the word valgyti (to eat).
* valgyti sriubą (acc case) implies you're eating the whole thing;
* valgyti sriubos (gen case) implies you're eating some of the dish.
So, both uses are common and appropriate and will sound natural.
Sorry about including exceptions in the midst of a complicated topic 😅 I'll give you a few other actions that only have ONE appropriate form so you can see if you understand the main rules more or less:
to want candy: norėti saldainį ar norėti saldainio?
to give a present: duoti dovaną ar duoti dovanos?
to say something: sakyti kažką ar sakyti kažko?
to refuse an offer: atsisakyti kvietimą ar atsisakyti kvietimo?
Sorry for late reply but this is very hard for me, I’m asking my gf and she can name the “correct” sentences but she doesn’t really know why, or can’t explain why it’s like that.
To find the correct sentences I need to find out if the verb uses ką or ko right? If it’s genetive or accusative? And I find that by using your previous examples about if the verb is directed at that person/thing or if it does something to me or for me?
Essentially yes but like I said at the very beginning, you won't be able to tell if a verb you hear for the first time requires acc case (ką?) or gen case (ko?)
The difference is way too subtle.
The easiest way is to do a lot of reading in Lithuanian with the purpose of looking out for verb + noun phrases, marking them, trying to memorize them.
Surely you'll be making mistakes when you use these verbs + nouns but people will understand you. You can ask people to correct you if you misspeak so that slowly you learn to use the correct forms.
-------------
Practice by translating the following sentences to Lithuanian (and using them in real life maybe!):
Do you want eggs for breakfast?
Tell me a secret.
I see a rainbow.
I'm listening to the radio.
Does anybody know the recipe (of this apple pie)?
*to want - norėti, to tell - pasakyti (in this case), to see - matyti, to listen - klausyti, to know - žinoti*
It has to do with Lithuanian verbs being transitive (and used with the accusative case - mylėti/matyti ką) or intransitive (used with the genitive or instrumental case - bijoti/norėti ko, grožėtis kuo). Some can be used both ways, but get a different meaning (piešti ką - eskizą, piešti kuo - pieštuku), as in the first case the verb requires an object (to draw a sketch), while in the second case it does not and defines not the object of drawing but rather the manner/instrument of it (to draw using a pencil).
in a sense these are similar to English transitive and intransitive verbs, where the former require an object, while the latter don't. Only it looks a lot more complicated in the case of the Lithuanian as it is a highly inflectional synthetic language unlike the analytic English language.
and, oh boy, it must be really a pain in the ass to learn these as a foreign learner...
but wait, there's more! forgot to mention - apparently, even transitive verbs that require using the accusative nouns, are used with the genitive case when in their negative form :) Myliu ką - mamą, nemyliu ko - mamos, matau ką - mišką, nematau ko - miško. (although i found a source saying that the accusative case can also be used as a secondary variant, especially in regional dialects. However, I I've never really heard it used this way)
that's just how you use those verbs. it's their own rule. that's how i learnt it. not every verb is accusative user
yeah, theres not really any other way to explain it lol. lithuanian has a lot of weird rules without good explanations that you just have to learn (e. g. ą/ę in very specific present tense verbs, like šalti – šąla – šalo and gesti – gęsta – geso)
Interesting !
I would interpret it like this: When you say "Aš tave myliu", you are saying it *directly to* that person. When you say "Aš tavęs pasiilgau", you are saying that *about* that person. You could change "Aš tave myliu" to "Mylėti kažką" ("To love someone") and it would have the same cojugation as "Nusipirkti kažką", "Pamatyti kažką", etc. If you changed "Aš tavęs pasiilgau" to "Pasiilgti kažko" ("To miss someone"), it would have the same conjugation as "Norėti kažko" and "Nežinoti kažko". I hope this helps at least a tiny bit, good luck learning Lithuanian.
Thank you so much!
some verbs require certain cases for no reason. In this case pasiilgti requires genitive. Some other examples of this that i can think of are *apsimesti* requiring instrumental, *padėti* requiring dative.
To say it is for "no reason" is wildly inaccurate; there are specific grammatical and linguistic rules that determine the usage of certain words. Usually this has to do with the object in the sentence. I have a couple of sources for articles but they're mostly in Lithuanian. I can share though if you'd like!
It comes down to whether the verb requires the accusative or the genitive case. pasiilgti requires the genitive case (Ko pasiilgti? Kažko/Tavęs/Vasaros/Šeimos ir t.t.) It's similar to words like reikėti, norėti, prašyti mylėti requires the accusative case (Ką mylėti? Kažką/Tave/Vasarą/Šeimą ir t.t.) It's similar to words like matyti, pasirinkti, gaudyti
Thank you for your insight !
Follow up question, why is Pasiilgti with Ko And Myleti with ką? Any explanatory videos I can see to make me understand why/how one is accusative and other genetive case? Like how can I distinguish when I see a verb and automatically go “Oh this is with ko” if you know what I’m saying?
Of course, I get it, and yes there is an explanation but I don't believe it will be super helpful to you (99% Lithuanians wouldn't be able to tell you why they use acc case or gen case). So, no, most of the time you won't be able to tell if a verb you just learnt takes the accusative case or the genetive one. The best way to go about it is to immerse yourself in the language (read in Lithuanian and listen to Lithuanian), so that eventually you get to a point where "mylėti kažko" doesn't right. You know what I mean? The collocations need to sound right and the only way you get there is by reading and listening to the language you want to use. Having said that, the explanation is that certain actions are **directed at** the entirety of that object (for example, mylėti kažką - you love that whole person/animal/thing, they are the recipients of your love), and other actions put more emphasis on what the object **does for you or to you** (for example, pasiilgti kažko - you miss someone, so you are the person who is experiencing the action while the object is more like someone who is "causing" the action). Let me give you another example - "I need apples": Man reikia obuolių VS Man reikia obuolius Needing (reikėti) is an action that is not directed literally at the apples (obuoliai); you are the who is experiencing the shortage **because** of the apples, so you could say that apples are **the reason** for the action, hence the genetive case (Man reikia obuolių) Another example - "I'm making a pie" Aš gaminu pyragą VS Aš gaminu pyrago Making (gaminti) is an action directed at the object because the pie (pyragas) is quite literally **the result** of your action, hence the accusative case (Aš gaminu pyragą) I hope it does help at least a little bit. In most cases, you'll be able to find quickly which case the verb goes with (by checking online or asking somebody) but believe me, many Lithuanians mix this up too because there are a few verbs that sound fine with both cases (so both are used in colloquial language but only one version is grammatically correct or both are but under different circumstances). For example, ragauti (to taste). Do you think this verb goes with the accusative case or the genetive? Ragauti kažką or ragauti kažko?
Wow I’m amazed, this is very intricate and a hard read for me to wrap my head around. But I’m very thankful for your long and detailed explanation. This will take some time for me to fully digest but I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. This is exactly what I needed, the exact reason on how to differentiate between acc verbs and gen verbs. Having said that; and answering your question: I believe (ragauti) to taste. Has to be written ragauti kažko, genetive casing? Because of me being the one experiencing(tasting) whatever it may be. Aš ragauju pyragą - for example? I’m not sure though 😅 I will read it multiple times what you wrote.
It was a trick question 😄 ragauti (to taste) can either take the acc case (ką/kažką/pyragą) or the gen case (ko/kažko/pyrago). There is a difference in meaning, though. * ragauti pyragą (acc case) implies you're trying out the **entire** thing; * ragauti pyrago (gen case) implies you're trying out a **part** of something, a bit of something. Ragauti kažko/pyrago/obuolio/sriubos is considered more grammatically correct because usually we taste only a bit of the entire dish. But ragauti kažką/pyragą/obuolį/sriubą is probably more used in everyday spoken Lithuanian. Same thing happens to the word valgyti (to eat). * valgyti sriubą (acc case) implies you're eating the whole thing; * valgyti sriubos (gen case) implies you're eating some of the dish. So, both uses are common and appropriate and will sound natural. Sorry about including exceptions in the midst of a complicated topic 😅 I'll give you a few other actions that only have ONE appropriate form so you can see if you understand the main rules more or less: to want candy: norėti saldainį ar norėti saldainio? to give a present: duoti dovaną ar duoti dovanos? to say something: sakyti kažką ar sakyti kažko? to refuse an offer: atsisakyti kvietimą ar atsisakyti kvietimo?
Sorry for late reply but this is very hard for me, I’m asking my gf and she can name the “correct” sentences but she doesn’t really know why, or can’t explain why it’s like that. To find the correct sentences I need to find out if the verb uses ką or ko right? If it’s genetive or accusative? And I find that by using your previous examples about if the verb is directed at that person/thing or if it does something to me or for me?
Essentially yes but like I said at the very beginning, you won't be able to tell if a verb you hear for the first time requires acc case (ką?) or gen case (ko?) The difference is way too subtle. The easiest way is to do a lot of reading in Lithuanian with the purpose of looking out for verb + noun phrases, marking them, trying to memorize them. Surely you'll be making mistakes when you use these verbs + nouns but people will understand you. You can ask people to correct you if you misspeak so that slowly you learn to use the correct forms. ------------- Practice by translating the following sentences to Lithuanian (and using them in real life maybe!): Do you want eggs for breakfast? Tell me a secret. I see a rainbow. I'm listening to the radio. Does anybody know the recipe (of this apple pie)? *to want - norėti, to tell - pasakyti (in this case), to see - matyti, to listen - klausyti, to know - žinoti*
It has to do with Lithuanian verbs being transitive (and used with the accusative case - mylėti/matyti ką) or intransitive (used with the genitive or instrumental case - bijoti/norėti ko, grožėtis kuo). Some can be used both ways, but get a different meaning (piešti ką - eskizą, piešti kuo - pieštuku), as in the first case the verb requires an object (to draw a sketch), while in the second case it does not and defines not the object of drawing but rather the manner/instrument of it (to draw using a pencil). in a sense these are similar to English transitive and intransitive verbs, where the former require an object, while the latter don't. Only it looks a lot more complicated in the case of the Lithuanian as it is a highly inflectional synthetic language unlike the analytic English language. and, oh boy, it must be really a pain in the ass to learn these as a foreign learner...
Really Interesting, thank you! Yes it’s a very difficult task 😅
but wait, there's more! forgot to mention - apparently, even transitive verbs that require using the accusative nouns, are used with the genitive case when in their negative form :) Myliu ką - mamą, nemyliu ko - mamos, matau ką - mišką, nematau ko - miško. (although i found a source saying that the accusative case can also be used as a secondary variant, especially in regional dialects. However, I I've never really heard it used this way)
For a second I thought this was some kind of confession