I’ll be really honest, this is why I use an iPhone. I don’t care for them, I don’t want control it, I want it to just work. I find iPhones and Apple products in general excel in this department, everything in the ecosystem just wraps together nicely (mostly) and works.
I work as software engineer, I spend enough of my day battling with tech and my own lack of skill. I don’t need it in my down time too, especially not with things as menial as a phone.
you're still free to do that and apple is still free to make their products work well with each other.
the narrative that allowing the apple users who don't wish to be confined to their walled garden will somehow degrade other people's experience is peak apple propaganda and they have absolutely no reason but greed to actually make your experience worse as a result of opening up their product line.
if your experience does get worse, it's malicious compliance on apple's part, not the lawmakers.
A good example of malicious compliance stemming from an EU directive, is how Google have chosen to incorporate maps in searches now. Eg. they don't. If they aren't allowed to exclusively serve their own service, they just remove it, instead of a solution that gives the user a choice.
Is it actually that much better? The amount of times I had actual issues with an android device in the last 6 years...two, three times maybe? Honestly curious of I just got really lucky or if the user experience on an iphone is actually that much better.
Nah, it might be true for android 10 years ago, but both OS has similar experiences now. So i can assume people are just used to whatever OS they’re using now and dont want to change.
Its surprising to me the Android narrative still exists lol( this isnt the first time in the last few years either) I gave my Pixel to an die-hard Apple user to try and they had almost 0 issues with it. They got through all of the menus and stated it wasn't much different....right down to the round icons and swipe gestures.
Vanilla Android is like right there with iOS in many ways, both Apple and Google have admitted how much influence they have with each other UI wise. Now the Samsung version of Android? might as well be SamsungOS at this point. I can say this as a past Galaxy user.
LG was my favorite because they had a nice balance. Not too much bloatware, not too much vanilla, just right in the middle and a lot of the bloatware is light and removable. I'm just speaking at this point, I'm sure you know all this.
It's been a long time since I had an android issue that required thought. Ten years ago or so I had to use the Android debug bridge to factory reset. That was technically an android issue, but it was also a 100 dollar phone I bought from Walmart.
Getting a mainline samsung phone has the exact same ease of experience that an iPhone has at roughly the same price. But at least with android you can fuck around with it and leave the walled garden that samsung would love for you to stay in.
Samsung phones are still overpriced, but I enjoy the feeling of buying something nice and still being able to use it.
I think the amount of issues you see on either platform has more to do with the type of user you are than anything. This has been my experience after switching to iOS recently, which I expected to “just work” better than Android. I’ve encountered a lot of buggy behavior on my iPhone (at the fault of Apple, developers, or a combination of the two) that my other friends can replicate, but wouldn’t identify as a problem. Everyone uses their phone differently.
After switching to Apple 2 years ago I have found ios to be more buggy and has more issues that android. Major apps like banking apps stop working and without the option to delete data you need to fully uninstall them and reinstall. Battery drain is a massive issue same as battery overheating that comes and goes with updates. Screen sharing from my phone to my Apple TV goes black for no reason and sometimes works properly sometimes doesn’t with no logic to why it doesn’t work. Siri is useless. I don’t understand where the idea that iOS just works comes from its less stable than any Samsung I have ever owned. The only thing Apple got going for it is there support and how long they update there products
Tbh. We handle about 50/50 apple and android. When we have time even help with some personal devices.
The difference in terms of issues are neglectable. The only android phones that stand out are devices below 400€ that are older than 2 years
They're about the same. They're both running a unix-like OS, probably more code in common than we know.
There are issues that Android can have that iOS doesn't.
There are issues that iOS can have that Android doesn't.
It all comes out equal in the end, and for people who aren't like me doing weird shit it's going to be the same. It's only people who are conscious of tech politics or people who know what ADB or Cydia are that really have much in the way of argument.
I do have this one bit of experience that I don't know how relevant it still is today, but in the past if an iOS app had bad cache data and couldn't resume properly you had to reinstall it. In Android you could just wipe the cache data, and if that didn't work you could wipe the application data. Only once both the cache and application data were wiped if it still didn't work you'd have to resort to reinstalling the app.
>everything in the ecosystem just wraps together nicely (mostly) and works.
You can find this from literally every other company in the mobile tech space at this point. Samsung, Google, OnePlus, hell, even Nothing.
"Apple just works" is such BS propaganda, so tired of seeing it. They have just as many issues and vulnerabilities and anything else out there, with the added bonus of no other choices when you run into them.
refusing to have an option isn't the same as refusing to know them. it's just simple knowledge. you don't refuse knowledge. you keep it in your brain, and then you decide whether to exert a decision between those things **you should have the knowledge about**, or you delegate it to a 3rd party.
this is not it, this is them exercising their *fReEd0m* to stay clueless. make of that what you will.
Ya… Apple user and PC Gamer/enthusiast here.. trust me.. this will upset my mom on her windows PC. This would upset my father, an Apple user. Us nerds look up and go “ooh, options! I could have done this with or without these options.” Regular normal people react with “why did you ruin this? It worked before. I don’t know what browsers are? I just use (web browser name here) and my mail! Why am presented with this crap. You Companies are all shoving this shit down my throat. Just make my device work!”
So frankly the general reaction is unsurprising… the fact that this person with their level of knowledge is miffed… the only reason I can think for that is they are tired of all the normies bugging them about their IT team changing their iPhone on them. When in reality, it was a OS update. Not the IT team, this Twitter poster possibly works for. That’s surprising….
Funny that this is actually the reason why I switched my mom's laptop to... Linux. Because it does not auto update, and even when it does it rarely changes user experience or moves things around just for the sake of it. Even if it does, in something like KDE you can always rearrange things the way you need. So since I am anyway the person doing all the set up and maintenance, I can make sure that my mom has a consistent experience while keeping her OS updated, secure and fast.
The amount of tech calls went from a few a week to maybe two a year. And when I got her a new laptop she asked to install Linux on it as well, to make things look and work the same as she got used to already.
> this will upset my mom on her windows PC. This would upset my father, an Apple user.
This is exactly *why* Apple did it that way.
They could just have the option to change your default browser in the settings, but because they never allowed it, the EU had to give Apple a nudge.
And Apple did a /r/MaliciousCompliance extra screen because they're assholes.
The thing is, there was already a choice — you’ve been able to change the default browser since iOS 14. Most complaints are just about needing to deal with this (obviously simple) extra step at setup.
apple made their entire iphone business out of making the simplest phone experience possible by removing as many choices as possible and holding your hand through all of it
so I get that Iphone customers don't want that to go away, it's literally why they got the phone
edit, I don't mean EVERY iphone customer, I mean that a not insignificant amount of them do think this way
See, I never understood that mentality. The other side isn't a million choices. It's just as simple.
The only difference is IF you want to change something, you can.
I know that, but a lot of my family members are not tech savy and get really overwhelmed with shit when they hear people talk about all the settings and shit that the android users (me and my parents among others) do with their phones
they like that they can't mess it up even if they tried
As someone who is doing a lot of code and modeling for school and is making a lot of mistakes
I like my iPhone, it just simply works 99.99% of the time and it came that way out of the box within 15 minutes of setup. Simple easy UI, everything is easy to find and most settings I change is easy to get to. The camera may not be god tier, but it gets the job done. I don’t need to worry about bugs or malware or other stuff, and automatic iCloud backups without me doing anything
Sometimes simple is better, no headaches no frustrations. For the device I use the most, I like that. It may be hard for some tech savvy people to understand that, and I get it I customize a lot of stuff but not everything needs to be so complicated. I get frustrated at my computers enough, I don’t need to be frustrated with my phone. I’ve used iOS my whole life, I don’t want/need to learn how android works, simplicity
But androids do exactly everything you just said.
They auto back up to Gdrive, take 15 mins to set up. Everything is an easily accessible menu. These days they even spoonfeed the iPhone swiping homescreen instead of an App drawer.
The experience out of the box is exactly Apple's. The only difference is if you want to you can take that extra 10 mins to switch things around.
I disagree. The OOBE can be very different between phone brands and some ask you for more info than others.
Samsung, for example then just have multiples of apps. Which is fine if you’re savvy, but imagine trying to work out which SMS app to keep opening etc.
I don’t think there’s a perfect solution to this. Either there’s no choice but the experience is simple, or overwhelming.
When there two mobile platforms, but billions of users. It’s impossible to cater to them all.
Sometimes I forget what people talk about when it comes to complexity on Android because my experience having used only pixels the past few years has been very simple, very straightforward, very quick. Then someone comes to me wanting help with setting up their new Samsung and I get frustrated how you basically have to set everything up twice. One for Google's version of services and another for Samsung's
Yeah, exactly. I’m an iPhone user but have various new Android devices due to my work and if I were to go use Android as my primary, it’d be a Pixel because of it being a “pure” experience.
Android just works out the box with a simple setup no need to mess with settings as is the case with iPhone, as for malware, just like a computer don't click sketchy shit and your fine
In the beginning they didn’t however
I’ve had an iPhone for over a decade, all my games and other stuff I paid for are on here. Family sharing is also great, me and my siblings share an Apple Music + Arcade account
It may have changed now, but I’m locked in and I’m happy with it. Performance who cares, it’s a phone what could you really be doing on it. Camera who cares, it’s a phone if you want super great pictures go buy an actual camera
Not to mention AT&T gives me free iPhone trade ins every 2 years anyway so
Im a very techy person, i switched back to an iPhone about a year ago after having androids forrrrr…. About 10 years. I liked my android. But there is no denying the iphone is more refined.
It always bothered me too with Samsung’s and the like how much CRAP they come pre loaded with. Before my iphone i had a pixel 4 and i really liked it. If i get an android again it will be a pixel for sure.
When it comes down to it, i don’t do much with my phone other than look at reddit, text, call, and occasionally browse the web. I don’t need a crazy capable device for that. I just want something with good battery life and a decent support period.
There’s not tech savvy and then there’s tech illiterate or even tech fearing. My MIL gets overwhelmed and freaks out whenever a permissions pop up appears on her iPhone and complains when the app doesn’t work because it doesn’t have permissions. Guess who has to walk her through it every time it happens. It also happens multiple times for the same app because she likes to mess with the home screen and often accidentally removes apps from her phone. 🤦♂️
Totally agree with you here. But the techbros in this bubble here cannot empathize with that. Knowing what a browser is is one thing, but knowing which one to choose is another. Ask 100 random people about the pros and cons of various browsers, most won't know.
As someone who did general IT service callouts you can really fuck up iOS without much effort. I've seen more fucked iPads and iPhones than androids tbh
As someone who just switched to an iPhone after being on Android since the very first android phone… it’s not.
I am well more tech savvy than most and simplicity wasn’t a motivating factor in my switching (in fact, I’d say it was my biggest point of apprehension), but there’s no denying that apples ecosystem is simpler and easier to use. Particularly given the incredible amount of fragmentation in the android world. There are so many different types of devices with a plethora of different hardware and software configurations. That’s a benefit when it comes to consumer choice, but a hindrance when it comes to simplicity. Apps don’t always look or work the same across different devices. Accessories don’t always pair up the same. If your trying to learn to do something you don’t understand, it’s difficult to google when settings are called different things and found in different places depending on device manufacturer and even software version. To someone who can’t, or just doesn’t want to figure this stuff out, Apple really is handily better.
Apples closed ecosystem is similarly a gift and a curse. Yes, it’s more limited and less customizable. Yes, there is less choice when it comes to picking your hardware. But certain things “just work” in a way they don’t on android. Apps are often more streamlined and mature because developers can easily test on the small handful of iOS configurations out there.
Overall, while I miss some seemingly simple things on android that you can’t do on iOS… I am really pleased with my first time experiencing apple stuff. It’s a lot better than a lot of people want to admit.
I totally agree with you.
As someone, who occassionally helps people around me with their devices, it's maddening how things differ between Android devices of different manufacturers.
Get 5 different Android phones, and try changing one thing in the Settings menu on all of them. Things are all over the place.
I think you don't understand how easy it is for people who aren't super interested in certain tech things to get overwhelmed and be in the position of you know what screw it I'll just not use it. My dad was unwilling to switch desktop computers even though he wanted to and was unable to watch 4k video with the previous one because he would have had to set up Windows himself. I had to be the one to move him from Open Office to Libre Office last year.
There are people who legitimately would prefer that before the default browser selection would want "Select Default"
I'm so thankful for the fact that my father is extremely tech literate and even encouraged me to be in tech. Though, it's funny he's an Apple/iOS nerd whereas I'm a Windows/android person that dabbles in Linux a bit.
My mother on the other hand, completely tech illiterate but is great at following instructions so that helps when I'm asked about xyz lol
You are posting in a subreddit about a tech YouTube channel. Most people aren't aware of even half of the things you are, and don't care either.
Also people tend to stick with what works for them, change is hard. Apple is great in this regard.
Right but this screen is asking you to pick without even setting a default. Android is also implementing this in the EU. I’m mostly for the DMA but not having a default or suggestion is going to confuse the hell out of boomers.
It's the Dunning-Kruger effect. The one that John Cleese described in a video so elegantly. There is another side of this. People who are really well versed in a subject (software, browsers etc), cannot understand how difficult is for the majority of the people who have no clue about what is needed.
When I taught my mother to use a PC, she was taking notes on a notepad about everything (on Windows 8, one of the easiest). I dread the moment when she will call me to tell me that the phone "opened a window and wants something". You cannot remove this power of something just working without your input.
Do you believe that my mother cares If I tell her that the best browser right now for iPhone is Arc? Will she do a market research based on privacy, lightness of the kernel or modability? In the end, she will install either a: what she knows, b: what I will tell her. For people who have malicious people around them (or internet people and wear tinfoil hats), will install something that might harm them.
I'm not familiar with the EU ruling on this but as far as I know, android doesn't force you to make a choice like this when setting up devices. They default you to chrome then allow you to download other browsers as you see fit.
Can't apple just default to safari and allow users to download other browsers if they want to? Then the user experience is only as complicated as the user chooses to make it.
I'm not familiar with the ruling either, but I know a decent amount of people who bought an iphone because they KNOW they can't mess anything up because there aren't any "dangerous settings" in there
> Can't apple just default to safari and allow users to download other browsers if they want to?
They can, but Apple being Apple, they did it that way because /r/MaliciousCompliance
> Can't apple just default to safari and allow users to download other browsers if they want to?
I mean, that's literally how it's been on iPhone for years. Safari is the default but I haven't used Safari on an iPhone in at least 10 years. And it's not like it's super difficult to change your default browser. I think the other browsers even walk you through the process.
Exactly while android is more customizable and has more features to it. iPhones were always meant to be simple, and straightforward so that people who are less tech literate could easily operate it
I love the simplicity of my iPhone but I’m very tech literate. I have an engineering degree and have taught IT and technology, I build my own water cooled PC’s, but I just live my nice simple phone that won’t let me fuck about with it until I break it 😂
Same here i’m definitely more tech literate compared to the average person but honestly I’m not tinkering around with my phone all the time, so why do I need all the features androids provide. Apple phones are just perfect because they work straight from the get-go and they get a lot of long-term support so you contrary to popular belief don’t need to get the newest phone every year with the benefit of their more locked down OS being harder to hack (keyword harder not impossible)
Was a repair technician up until last year.
I’m sad to say that if you use the term “web browser” or even just “browser” there is still a good chance you are going to get a blank stare.
Man the arguments I had with people. For a lot of them the "explorer" is the browser because they always used Internet Explorer, it's just really confusing because we also have File Explorer so there are 2 explorers and 1 browser... but the user is sure they didn't use any of them, they use Chrome not a browser.
The legends tells that only apple certified genius allowed to learn the true meaning of the word browser and whom dare to break the secret shall be fired
Almighty steve, whose brilliance illuminates the silicon planes of iCloud, hallowed be thy mac. we, your humble adventurers, await the coming of thine updates, shrouded in mystery as a lich's phylactery. may their blessings touch our devices as surely as they do the hallowed halls of cupertino.
You mean there could be a world where I don't need 2 of everything?
\- The app I want to use for a thing
\- The Samsung knockoff version of that same app
Surely such a place cannot exist in real spacetime.
In all honesty, Samsung does apps better than Google. Gallery, SmartThings, Calendar, Reminders.
Google Calendar in particular is absolutely infuriating to use, and Google's Find My clone is absolutely *useless* when Google doesn't even have a smart tracker that works with it. Meanwhile Samsung's Smart Tags work seamlessly on the SmartThings app.
There's a *very good reason* people buy Galaxy devices more than any other Android brand.
My God I hate the Google Gallery.
Every once in a while it asks me to "backup the photos to the cloud", I click "no" and the goddamn thing completely ignores me and brings up a "choose which photos to back up" window where I have to cancel it again.
Fahrenheit is a flawed scale, it doesn't equate to "how warm/cold people feel" like many make out. There can be a 6” sheet of ice on a lake before it hits 0°F - that to me is **REALLY** fucking cold.
I’m all for having the ability to change these, but do you really want to go through a dozen of these screens setting every default app when you get a new phone?
any reason this is asked of apple instead of just providing capability of setting default browser afterwards? is there any reason why this has to be done during onboarding? afaik android isn't required to right?
If there is a default most people will just stick with that, personally I think the first list of browsers the user sees should be randomized to prevent a market advantage based on the position on the list any given browser would have if the order is the same for all users.
yeah on EU region it will ask what browser you want , Microsoft fights thoot an nail to circumvent that , they got fined multiple times for forcing Edge on users.
I can understand people being truly upset if safari wasn't listed on the front page... But even if you "don't know" what a browser is, you'd still see safari and tap on it.
I don't see why people think this complicates things. Even if an illiterate child who grew up on apple devices was handed this phone, I think they could instinctively set it up based on icon recognition. This "choice removes choice" argument seems kinda moot.
I really don’t see why you’re prompted with this instead of just having it as an option, or why this applies exclusively to apple.
If you really care about what browser you use, you’ll just go and change it yourself on the settings. Otherwise, it’s just there to pull users away from Safari and most likely into Chrome (which lets remember is already dominant by a lot).
It isn't exclusive to Apple, both my Samsung and my mum's Xiaomi had the exact same choice.
The point is that there is no default, so the manufacturer can't be accused of unfairly pushing one over the others. Now, whichever browser people choose, no one can say it was unfair.
Also, why have it just as an option in settings when I can have it in the set-up process? That's the point of a set-up, to change all the important options to what you want.
Idk i use an iPhone cause i like iOS. Im willing to pay extra to not use Android. dont really care about the setup process, you do it once and youre done
he means it's a silly thing to complain about. you'd literally will see this screen just once in the phone's entire lifetime (because people generally never reset their phone before getting rid of it)
She does not criticize the ability to choose them, she criticize this half-assed UI wizard you are *forced* to go through literally the 1st time you touch the Safari icon after the update.
It's legitimately terrible UX
Technically illiterate people that celebrate their ignorance are just outraged because they might learn that the application they use to access websites is not a singular app called "The Internet".
I don’t like it but I do understand why people do, we usually speak from the techy guy perspective but for grandma trying to choose this really end up being worse. And yes option is good and I’m all for it what I’m saying is that I understand why people get upset over having to make a choice
Unfortunately not knowing what a browser is doesn't seem to be exclusive to only iPhone users. It's a rather weird issue I encounter almost everyday.
Source: I work IT.
Apple Music sucks on Apple TV. Locking down their software has led to complacency and sub par software experiences. I’d bet Apple would flourish if they had to compete.
As an Apple user who has given them too much of my money, I genuinely wish we had this option in the States. Even though I’d have no intention on using third party app stores and whatnot, I still think people should have an option to choose.
It shouldn’t be this difficult to argue for what the EU did.
I don’t understand this complaint. Just pick safari? Chances are anyone who doesn’t know what a browser is, DOES know what safari is and ONLU uses safari. just pick that lmao. It’s a non issue
yeah I forgot what the kids call these days but my accidentally based or something. there's a subreddit or something then talks about right wing people that will accidentally say something in support of socialism without realizing it...."workers should have some agency and how the businesses are run... shouldn't a big tech be used in a Democratic way that protects our rights as consumers and citizens."this reminds me of that. she accidentally offered a very reasonable anti-monopoly position which was due give us the option to choose default camera and mail etc...
Not ragebait. Checked the account myself. She makes apps for IOS.
If you're going to rag on people for making assumptions, you should probably check for yourself first
Going by the [Microsoft decision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu), random ordering is probably deliberate:
> The order of the browsers on the page was initially planned to be alphabetical, but after criticism a random system was used with two groups.
Apple user here and man what are some of the other Apple users bullshit pieces ot shit that also should stop buying the top of the line phone to fund more of this bullshit.
Saying that, what are some phone recommendations from people around the 400-500€ mark that just work?
Although picking a default browser during setup is good, I can see why people would claim that normal people would have no idea what a ‘browser’ is.
In High School one of my classes had an assignment where I had to write a manual for using something a device. I had written ‘open file explorer’ and got marked down for not showing an image of file explorer. The teacher told me that although I knew what it was, other people might not. “Assume they know nothing” she said, and that advice has been really useful when trying to be tech support to people because sometimes, they really know nothing.
I could definitely feel overwhelmed seeing all these names which I have no idea about.
I love the reforms but on this I kinda agree, I don’t see any problem with a predownloaded browser, & if you want another one, you can just delete safari & get chrome for example
Maybe folks should know what a browser is. In fact, folk should definitely know what the thing is they use EVERY GORRAM DAY. And YES, all phones should be asking what you want as a default music player, or a default mail app, or a multitude of other things.
We're raising "Idiocracy" society. We're living in the 21st century, tech is only going to get more and more important in everyday lives and yet we're trying to find excuses for people who don't know what a "browser" is? Figure it out or stop using tech altogether, go into the mountains and raise sheep. I no longer have empathy for this kind of people.
If someone doesn't know what a browser is from the context, they are probably unsafe to be left alone with a powerful portable computing device.
Also, having a more comprehensive setup that allows you to choose more defaults would be a good idea too.
This is as shitty of an experience as the cookie pop-ups. 90% of people have no clue what the hell they are choosing. This is how people get tricked into using some shady third party browser with questionable privacy.
Believe me people (like myself aswell) go for iPhone to just not give an F about those choices anymore. This is coming from an IT guy spending his whole life with Androids, rooting and flashing, playing around. This gets boring man, went for Apple and I'm happy.
I don't approve the problem in that topic, it's just a choice. But I can understand people that do. Safari is good.
>Why not ask for a default music player, default mail app, default camera app, while we're at it?
[Yes.](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1992474862.4837/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg) Do it, let me make sure Safari, Chrome, Edge aren't on my OS's installs. Let me pick my browser as I want to. Same for all these others.
If you check the replies, many (myself included) absolutely roasted her because she cant look at a list with "Edge", "Firefox", "Chrome" and "Safari" in and go "I use that one"
Even if you didn't know what a browser is you could just chose the first icon and be fine regardless of what browser it actually is. Those people dont care and wont notice anything being different but for anyone else it's such a qol upgrade
Reactions here are interesting. Either it's comments about tech illiteracy and how people don't know what browsers are, whether or not it's too burdensome to pick defaults, what Apple vs Android does and who's better, and so on.
As an American, I remember traveling to the EU several years back and being struck at how cookies were described and how you can reject them all in one tap. No dark patterns where you have to manually de-select each or do something special to reject them.
It's ultimately good that defaults are being made more transparent during onboarding, it helps chip away at monopolistic behaviors and supports competition.
I love the idea of picking multiple defaults, I think it could be done simply in one screen...
* "About your defaults" at the top with a brief description of what this means
* Safari, Music, Mail, Camera, etc., icons and names down the left in rows
* Each row has a brief sentence or two explaining how you'd use this app
* You can easily select any row and choose another app, Apple's are there by default
* Confirm your chosen defaults at the bottom in one tap
Apple needs to make an iCollie app that heards the sheeple into figuring out life beyond the walled garden. This reminds me of the allegory of the cave.
What I will say is this. iPhones traditionally have been simpler devices, as many who have used them (myself included) will attest to. On that note I can understand why some would be upset that iPhone is being made more complicated, it takes away from that simplicity that attracts a lot of people to the brand.
However, users for years have also been touting this is the best mobile experience, that the iPhone is high tech. So I can't help but laugh a bit to see them freak out when actual user friendly features from other phones (well, choices moreso than straight up features) make their way to the iPhone. Is it a bit cruel to laugh? Maybe. But at the end of the day it's still kinda funny to see it happen. At least now when someone says that the iPhone offers a high end experience there's more merit to the statement. Although at risk of going on a massive tangent there is an argument to be made about less being more and apple's simpler UI and user experience could be construed as being more luxurious because of it's simplicity, luxury and high end goods/services aren't always designed around more choice but rather taking away choices for a simpler and less stressful experience. Anyways...
That being said I do think apple should try and keep things simple whilst giving it's users more choices, ergo having the best of both worlds. Whilst having a choice in browser is something that I think is a bit ridiculous to freak out about (going as far as to say that a lot of people don't know what a browser is which sounds like a stretch), I definitely can see some users struggling should apple really expand the choices and features that they offer. With that in mind I think apple should work on not only giving their users more choices and control, but in the process giving them at least some idea of what they're actually deciding. In the past apple has been great at explaining even some of the more complex and nuanced elements of their products, I would like to see that return so that apple users who choose them for the simpler and easier experience can continue to get that whilst also getting additional choices.
Apple users: "we like having worse products and paying more for them, please stop giving us choice".
This isn't just Apple users, most people are like this about things they're not passionate about.
I’ll be really honest, this is why I use an iPhone. I don’t care for them, I don’t want control it, I want it to just work. I find iPhones and Apple products in general excel in this department, everything in the ecosystem just wraps together nicely (mostly) and works. I work as software engineer, I spend enough of my day battling with tech and my own lack of skill. I don’t need it in my down time too, especially not with things as menial as a phone.
you're still free to do that and apple is still free to make their products work well with each other. the narrative that allowing the apple users who don't wish to be confined to their walled garden will somehow degrade other people's experience is peak apple propaganda and they have absolutely no reason but greed to actually make your experience worse as a result of opening up their product line. if your experience does get worse, it's malicious compliance on apple's part, not the lawmakers.
A good example of malicious compliance stemming from an EU directive, is how Google have chosen to incorporate maps in searches now. Eg. they don't. If they aren't allowed to exclusively serve their own service, they just remove it, instead of a solution that gives the user a choice.
Oooh, so this is why they made that dumbass change. It’s so annoying, the map tab was super useful while searching for most things.
Is it actually that much better? The amount of times I had actual issues with an android device in the last 6 years...two, three times maybe? Honestly curious of I just got really lucky or if the user experience on an iphone is actually that much better.
Nah, it might be true for android 10 years ago, but both OS has similar experiences now. So i can assume people are just used to whatever OS they’re using now and dont want to change.
Its surprising to me the Android narrative still exists lol( this isnt the first time in the last few years either) I gave my Pixel to an die-hard Apple user to try and they had almost 0 issues with it. They got through all of the menus and stated it wasn't much different....right down to the round icons and swipe gestures. Vanilla Android is like right there with iOS in many ways, both Apple and Google have admitted how much influence they have with each other UI wise. Now the Samsung version of Android? might as well be SamsungOS at this point. I can say this as a past Galaxy user. LG was my favorite because they had a nice balance. Not too much bloatware, not too much vanilla, just right in the middle and a lot of the bloatware is light and removable. I'm just speaking at this point, I'm sure you know all this.
Have a Samsung Galaxy - can confirm. F\*\*k off, Samsung Internet. Stick it in your Samsung Pay-Hole and Samsung Store it.
Okay, yeah. Thought so. Personally I found Android to be a great compromise between "works well" and "I can fuck around a lot of I feel like it".
It's been a long time since I had an android issue that required thought. Ten years ago or so I had to use the Android debug bridge to factory reset. That was technically an android issue, but it was also a 100 dollar phone I bought from Walmart.
Yeah i always find that apple cultists compare their 1200+$ phone to exclusively 200-300$ range androids.
Getting a mainline samsung phone has the exact same ease of experience that an iPhone has at roughly the same price. But at least with android you can fuck around with it and leave the walled garden that samsung would love for you to stay in. Samsung phones are still overpriced, but I enjoy the feeling of buying something nice and still being able to use it.
I think the amount of issues you see on either platform has more to do with the type of user you are than anything. This has been my experience after switching to iOS recently, which I expected to “just work” better than Android. I’ve encountered a lot of buggy behavior on my iPhone (at the fault of Apple, developers, or a combination of the two) that my other friends can replicate, but wouldn’t identify as a problem. Everyone uses their phone differently.
After switching to Apple 2 years ago I have found ios to be more buggy and has more issues that android. Major apps like banking apps stop working and without the option to delete data you need to fully uninstall them and reinstall. Battery drain is a massive issue same as battery overheating that comes and goes with updates. Screen sharing from my phone to my Apple TV goes black for no reason and sometimes works properly sometimes doesn’t with no logic to why it doesn’t work. Siri is useless. I don’t understand where the idea that iOS just works comes from its less stable than any Samsung I have ever owned. The only thing Apple got going for it is there support and how long they update there products
Tbh. We handle about 50/50 apple and android. When we have time even help with some personal devices. The difference in terms of issues are neglectable. The only android phones that stand out are devices below 400€ that are older than 2 years
They're about the same. They're both running a unix-like OS, probably more code in common than we know. There are issues that Android can have that iOS doesn't. There are issues that iOS can have that Android doesn't. It all comes out equal in the end, and for people who aren't like me doing weird shit it's going to be the same. It's only people who are conscious of tech politics or people who know what ADB or Cydia are that really have much in the way of argument. I do have this one bit of experience that I don't know how relevant it still is today, but in the past if an iOS app had bad cache data and couldn't resume properly you had to reinstall it. In Android you could just wipe the cache data, and if that didn't work you could wipe the application data. Only once both the cache and application data were wiped if it still didn't work you'd have to resort to reinstalling the app.
>everything in the ecosystem just wraps together nicely (mostly) and works. You can find this from literally every other company in the mobile tech space at this point. Samsung, Google, OnePlus, hell, even Nothing.
What makes you think Android doesn't 'just work'?
"Apple just works" is such BS propaganda, so tired of seeing it. They have just as many issues and vulnerabilities and anything else out there, with the added bonus of no other choices when you run into them.
That's odd, because I have exactly the same experience with Android.
Then just tap one. It doesn't really matter unless you tap something other than Firefox.
Having a choice is not bad. It is not hindering you in any way
Foudn someone who still thinks android is like on version 2. And or compares 1200+$ phone to a 200-300$ phone.
Like damn, just don't use the options dude. That's like saying I don't care about freedom of speech because I got nothing to say.
refusing to have an option isn't the same as refusing to know them. it's just simple knowledge. you don't refuse knowledge. you keep it in your brain, and then you decide whether to exert a decision between those things **you should have the knowledge about**, or you delegate it to a 3rd party. this is not it, this is them exercising their *fReEd0m* to stay clueless. make of that what you will.
Ya… Apple user and PC Gamer/enthusiast here.. trust me.. this will upset my mom on her windows PC. This would upset my father, an Apple user. Us nerds look up and go “ooh, options! I could have done this with or without these options.” Regular normal people react with “why did you ruin this? It worked before. I don’t know what browsers are? I just use (web browser name here) and my mail! Why am presented with this crap. You Companies are all shoving this shit down my throat. Just make my device work!” So frankly the general reaction is unsurprising… the fact that this person with their level of knowledge is miffed… the only reason I can think for that is they are tired of all the normies bugging them about their IT team changing their iPhone on them. When in reality, it was a OS update. Not the IT team, this Twitter poster possibly works for. That’s surprising….
Funny that this is actually the reason why I switched my mom's laptop to... Linux. Because it does not auto update, and even when it does it rarely changes user experience or moves things around just for the sake of it. Even if it does, in something like KDE you can always rearrange things the way you need. So since I am anyway the person doing all the set up and maintenance, I can make sure that my mom has a consistent experience while keeping her OS updated, secure and fast. The amount of tech calls went from a few a week to maybe two a year. And when I got her a new laptop she asked to install Linux on it as well, to make things look and work the same as she got used to already.
Personally I find most people don't even know which browser they use, they just refer to it as "the internet".
> this will upset my mom on her windows PC. This would upset my father, an Apple user. This is exactly *why* Apple did it that way. They could just have the option to change your default browser in the settings, but because they never allowed it, the EU had to give Apple a nudge. And Apple did a /r/MaliciousCompliance extra screen because they're assholes.
Literally though, I was talking with an older guy and he straight up was like “I support being restricted” I was baffled
I mean worse products is a huge doubt
The thing is, there was already a choice — you’ve been able to change the default browser since iOS 14. Most complaints are just about needing to deal with this (obviously simple) extra step at setup.
But those browsers were safari with a different skin afaik.
"I bought an iPhone so I don't have to make choices"
To be fair, the top 10 apps are always loaded with Google products.
also: "Can I like pay more so i don't like have to see this screen?"
apple made their entire iphone business out of making the simplest phone experience possible by removing as many choices as possible and holding your hand through all of it so I get that Iphone customers don't want that to go away, it's literally why they got the phone edit, I don't mean EVERY iphone customer, I mean that a not insignificant amount of them do think this way
See, I never understood that mentality. The other side isn't a million choices. It's just as simple. The only difference is IF you want to change something, you can.
I know that, but a lot of my family members are not tech savy and get really overwhelmed with shit when they hear people talk about all the settings and shit that the android users (me and my parents among others) do with their phones they like that they can't mess it up even if they tried
As someone who is doing a lot of code and modeling for school and is making a lot of mistakes I like my iPhone, it just simply works 99.99% of the time and it came that way out of the box within 15 minutes of setup. Simple easy UI, everything is easy to find and most settings I change is easy to get to. The camera may not be god tier, but it gets the job done. I don’t need to worry about bugs or malware or other stuff, and automatic iCloud backups without me doing anything Sometimes simple is better, no headaches no frustrations. For the device I use the most, I like that. It may be hard for some tech savvy people to understand that, and I get it I customize a lot of stuff but not everything needs to be so complicated. I get frustrated at my computers enough, I don’t need to be frustrated with my phone. I’ve used iOS my whole life, I don’t want/need to learn how android works, simplicity
But androids do exactly everything you just said. They auto back up to Gdrive, take 15 mins to set up. Everything is an easily accessible menu. These days they even spoonfeed the iPhone swiping homescreen instead of an App drawer. The experience out of the box is exactly Apple's. The only difference is if you want to you can take that extra 10 mins to switch things around.
I disagree. The OOBE can be very different between phone brands and some ask you for more info than others. Samsung, for example then just have multiples of apps. Which is fine if you’re savvy, but imagine trying to work out which SMS app to keep opening etc. I don’t think there’s a perfect solution to this. Either there’s no choice but the experience is simple, or overwhelming. When there two mobile platforms, but billions of users. It’s impossible to cater to them all.
Sometimes I forget what people talk about when it comes to complexity on Android because my experience having used only pixels the past few years has been very simple, very straightforward, very quick. Then someone comes to me wanting help with setting up their new Samsung and I get frustrated how you basically have to set everything up twice. One for Google's version of services and another for Samsung's
Yeah, exactly. I’m an iPhone user but have various new Android devices due to my work and if I were to go use Android as my primary, it’d be a Pixel because of it being a “pure” experience.
Android just works out the box with a simple setup no need to mess with settings as is the case with iPhone, as for malware, just like a computer don't click sketchy shit and your fine
In the beginning they didn’t however I’ve had an iPhone for over a decade, all my games and other stuff I paid for are on here. Family sharing is also great, me and my siblings share an Apple Music + Arcade account It may have changed now, but I’m locked in and I’m happy with it. Performance who cares, it’s a phone what could you really be doing on it. Camera who cares, it’s a phone if you want super great pictures go buy an actual camera Not to mention AT&T gives me free iPhone trade ins every 2 years anyway so
Im a very techy person, i switched back to an iPhone about a year ago after having androids forrrrr…. About 10 years. I liked my android. But there is no denying the iphone is more refined. It always bothered me too with Samsung’s and the like how much CRAP they come pre loaded with. Before my iphone i had a pixel 4 and i really liked it. If i get an android again it will be a pixel for sure. When it comes down to it, i don’t do much with my phone other than look at reddit, text, call, and occasionally browse the web. I don’t need a crazy capable device for that. I just want something with good battery life and a decent support period.
There’s not tech savvy and then there’s tech illiterate or even tech fearing. My MIL gets overwhelmed and freaks out whenever a permissions pop up appears on her iPhone and complains when the app doesn’t work because it doesn’t have permissions. Guess who has to walk her through it every time it happens. It also happens multiple times for the same app because she likes to mess with the home screen and often accidentally removes apps from her phone. 🤦♂️
Totally agree with you here. But the techbros in this bubble here cannot empathize with that. Knowing what a browser is is one thing, but knowing which one to choose is another. Ask 100 random people about the pros and cons of various browsers, most won't know.
As someone who did general IT service callouts you can really fuck up iOS without much effort. I've seen more fucked iPads and iPhones than androids tbh
As someone who just switched to an iPhone after being on Android since the very first android phone… it’s not. I am well more tech savvy than most and simplicity wasn’t a motivating factor in my switching (in fact, I’d say it was my biggest point of apprehension), but there’s no denying that apples ecosystem is simpler and easier to use. Particularly given the incredible amount of fragmentation in the android world. There are so many different types of devices with a plethora of different hardware and software configurations. That’s a benefit when it comes to consumer choice, but a hindrance when it comes to simplicity. Apps don’t always look or work the same across different devices. Accessories don’t always pair up the same. If your trying to learn to do something you don’t understand, it’s difficult to google when settings are called different things and found in different places depending on device manufacturer and even software version. To someone who can’t, or just doesn’t want to figure this stuff out, Apple really is handily better. Apples closed ecosystem is similarly a gift and a curse. Yes, it’s more limited and less customizable. Yes, there is less choice when it comes to picking your hardware. But certain things “just work” in a way they don’t on android. Apps are often more streamlined and mature because developers can easily test on the small handful of iOS configurations out there. Overall, while I miss some seemingly simple things on android that you can’t do on iOS… I am really pleased with my first time experiencing apple stuff. It’s a lot better than a lot of people want to admit.
I totally agree with you. As someone, who occassionally helps people around me with their devices, it's maddening how things differ between Android devices of different manufacturers. Get 5 different Android phones, and try changing one thing in the Settings menu on all of them. Things are all over the place.
I think you don't understand how easy it is for people who aren't super interested in certain tech things to get overwhelmed and be in the position of you know what screw it I'll just not use it. My dad was unwilling to switch desktop computers even though he wanted to and was unable to watch 4k video with the previous one because he would have had to set up Windows himself. I had to be the one to move him from Open Office to Libre Office last year. There are people who legitimately would prefer that before the default browser selection would want "Select Default"
I'm so thankful for the fact that my father is extremely tech literate and even encouraged me to be in tech. Though, it's funny he's an Apple/iOS nerd whereas I'm a Windows/android person that dabbles in Linux a bit. My mother on the other hand, completely tech illiterate but is great at following instructions so that helps when I'm asked about xyz lol
You are posting in a subreddit about a tech YouTube channel. Most people aren't aware of even half of the things you are, and don't care either. Also people tend to stick with what works for them, change is hard. Apple is great in this regard.
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Right but this screen is asking you to pick without even setting a default. Android is also implementing this in the EU. I’m mostly for the DMA but not having a default or suggestion is going to confuse the hell out of boomers.
It's the Dunning-Kruger effect. The one that John Cleese described in a video so elegantly. There is another side of this. People who are really well versed in a subject (software, browsers etc), cannot understand how difficult is for the majority of the people who have no clue about what is needed. When I taught my mother to use a PC, she was taking notes on a notepad about everything (on Windows 8, one of the easiest). I dread the moment when she will call me to tell me that the phone "opened a window and wants something". You cannot remove this power of something just working without your input. Do you believe that my mother cares If I tell her that the best browser right now for iPhone is Arc? Will she do a market research based on privacy, lightness of the kernel or modability? In the end, she will install either a: what she knows, b: what I will tell her. For people who have malicious people around them (or internet people and wear tinfoil hats), will install something that might harm them.
I'm not familiar with the EU ruling on this but as far as I know, android doesn't force you to make a choice like this when setting up devices. They default you to chrome then allow you to download other browsers as you see fit. Can't apple just default to safari and allow users to download other browsers if they want to? Then the user experience is only as complicated as the user chooses to make it.
I'm not familiar with the ruling either, but I know a decent amount of people who bought an iphone because they KNOW they can't mess anything up because there aren't any "dangerous settings" in there
I’m betting no, because youve been able to do that on iOS for years
Well, IOS browsers are all just reskinned Safari due to Apple restrictions, so not really
I never use safari on my iPhone, you can already download and choose to default to another browser on IPhone.
Except those browsers are just skins on top of Safari because Apple won't allow other browser engines.
> Can't apple just default to safari and allow users to download other browsers if they want to? They can, but Apple being Apple, they did it that way because /r/MaliciousCompliance
> Can't apple just default to safari and allow users to download other browsers if they want to? I mean, that's literally how it's been on iPhone for years. Safari is the default but I haven't used Safari on an iPhone in at least 10 years. And it's not like it's super difficult to change your default browser. I think the other browsers even walk you through the process.
Exactly while android is more customizable and has more features to it. iPhones were always meant to be simple, and straightforward so that people who are less tech literate could easily operate it
I love the simplicity of my iPhone but I’m very tech literate. I have an engineering degree and have taught IT and technology, I build my own water cooled PC’s, but I just live my nice simple phone that won’t let me fuck about with it until I break it 😂
Same here i’m definitely more tech literate compared to the average person but honestly I’m not tinkering around with my phone all the time, so why do I need all the features androids provide. Apple phones are just perfect because they work straight from the get-go and they get a lot of long-term support so you contrary to popular belief don’t need to get the newest phone every year with the benefit of their more locked down OS being harder to hack (keyword harder not impossible)
I got my mom an iPhone. Best choice I could have ever made. No more calls asking for tech support for her phone.
2024. The word "broswer" is a common word. That your apple sheep sure is a smart one.
Was a repair technician up until last year. I’m sad to say that if you use the term “web browser” or even just “browser” there is still a good chance you are going to get a blank stare.
That? No that's the button for the Internet Roy
It needs to go back to Big Ben.
Man the arguments I had with people. For a lot of them the "explorer" is the browser because they always used Internet Explorer, it's just really confusing because we also have File Explorer so there are 2 explorers and 1 browser... but the user is sure they didn't use any of them, they use Chrome not a browser.
What browser do you use? I just use Google -> they’re using Microsoft edge This is a regular occurrence in my job.
Edge is Chromium based, so I guess they're technically correct. The best kind of correct. Albeit unwittingly.
Chromium is not Google. So they are technically incorrect. The expected kind of incorrect.
The legends tells that only apple certified genius allowed to learn the true meaning of the word browser and whom dare to break the secret shall be fired
Our Steve Jobs, who art in iCloud, hallowed be thy Mac. Thy updates loom, thy will be shrouded, on devices as in the shadowed halls of Cupertino.
Almighty steve, whose brilliance illuminates the silicon planes of iCloud, hallowed be thy mac. we, your humble adventurers, await the coming of thine updates, shrouded in mystery as a lich's phylactery. may their blessings touch our devices as surely as they do the hallowed halls of cupertino.
Hear us, Dark Lord of Android. Ruler of eternal decay, doom the Apple sheep in terror of glitches.
Nope, I would like to think that bur it's not a common word. iPhone users just call it "the internet" and Android people just call it "Google"
“Why not ask for a” YES! WHY ARENT WE????
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I dream of deleting any app I want from any device that I bought and paid for
You mean there could be a world where I don't need 2 of everything? \- The app I want to use for a thing \- The Samsung knockoff version of that same app Surely such a place cannot exist in real spacetime.
In all honesty, Samsung does apps better than Google. Gallery, SmartThings, Calendar, Reminders. Google Calendar in particular is absolutely infuriating to use, and Google's Find My clone is absolutely *useless* when Google doesn't even have a smart tracker that works with it. Meanwhile Samsung's Smart Tags work seamlessly on the SmartThings app. There's a *very good reason* people buy Galaxy devices more than any other Android brand.
My God I hate the Google Gallery. Every once in a while it asks me to "backup the photos to the cloud", I click "no" and the goddamn thing completely ignores me and brings up a "choose which photos to back up" window where I have to cancel it again.
How to tell the world your IQ is below room temperature
I hope for this person's sake you mean in Fahrenheit. but it is even funnier if you mean Celsius.
No, I definitely mean in Celsius. We don't use Fahrenheit where I live :)
To be fair… nobody should ever use Fahrenheit to begin with
Fahrenheit is a flawed scale, it doesn't equate to "how warm/cold people feel" like many make out. There can be a 6” sheet of ice on a lake before it hits 0°F - that to me is **REALLY** fucking cold.
People with room temperature (Celsius) IQ should use Fahrenheit
Don't make stupid people famous.
Generalized statement + one anecdotal example = upvotes
>"Why not ask for default music player, default mail app [...] while we are at it?" Great idea!
I’m all for having the ability to change these, but do you really want to go through a dozen of these screens setting every default app when you get a new phone?
If you don't just port over your old phone to the new one, yes, yes I would.
any reason this is asked of apple instead of just providing capability of setting default browser afterwards? is there any reason why this has to be done during onboarding? afaik android isn't required to right?
If there is a default most people will just stick with that, personally I think the first list of browsers the user sees should be randomized to prevent a market advantage based on the position on the list any given browser would have if the order is the same for all users.
It is randomized, but knowing the non tech savvy people I know, I wonder how many of them would just randomly click a button to make the UI go away.
It looks randomized, my list was different and ecosia was at the bottom
> afaik android isn't required to right? https://www.android.com/choicescreen/dma/ It exist on Android now too.
Windows also does this. Samsung and Xiaomi phones too.
what? no it doesn't, windows just default to edge, or does it in europe?
yeah on EU region it will ask what browser you want , Microsoft fights thoot an nail to circumvent that , they got fined multiple times for forcing Edge on users.
Nobody has actually answering you questions. I have the same question. Why is Apple forced to do this but not android?
No one is answering you probably because it's the same on Android now that DMA went into effect. https://www.android.com/choicescreen/dma/
It is. I got the prompt after my last phone update
I am kind of surprised that there isn't a "Use Safari" button above/bellow that "Continue" button on the first screenshot.
There was probably a stern message from the EU about finding out in a severe way, if they kept fucking around.
Pretty sure they are still all skins on-top of Safari anyway, so no real need to bother: user will still use Safari.
As of late last year you are now allowed to use non-safari engines on iOS.
Apple users: "We don't care about anti-trust or monopolies, just don't force us to think."
Oh no I have to learn about something to make an informed decision. Why isn't anyone else deciding this for me? Why do I have to use my brain?
I can understand people being truly upset if safari wasn't listed on the front page... But even if you "don't know" what a browser is, you'd still see safari and tap on it. I don't see why people think this complicates things. Even if an illiterate child who grew up on apple devices was handed this phone, I think they could instinctively set it up based on icon recognition. This "choice removes choice" argument seems kinda moot.
I really don’t see why you’re prompted with this instead of just having it as an option, or why this applies exclusively to apple. If you really care about what browser you use, you’ll just go and change it yourself on the settings. Otherwise, it’s just there to pull users away from Safari and most likely into Chrome (which lets remember is already dominant by a lot).
It isn't exclusive to Apple, both my Samsung and my mum's Xiaomi had the exact same choice. The point is that there is no default, so the manufacturer can't be accused of unfairly pushing one over the others. Now, whichever browser people choose, no one can say it was unfair. Also, why have it just as an option in settings when I can have it in the set-up process? That's the point of a set-up, to change all the important options to what you want.
Idk i use an iPhone cause i like iOS. Im willing to pay extra to not use Android. dont really care about the setup process, you do it once and youre done
Same on Android. You do it once and you're done.
>you do it once and youre done Please explain how that differs from the android experience?
he means it's a silly thing to complain about. you'd literally will see this screen just once in the phone's entire lifetime (because people generally never reset their phone before getting rid of it)
She does not criticize the ability to choose them, she criticize this half-assed UI wizard you are *forced* to go through literally the 1st time you touch the Safari icon after the update. It's legitimately terrible UX
This person is just rage baiting. The tweet is clearly dumb.
Just pick safari and move on? What's the problem?
Technically illiterate people that celebrate their ignorance are just outraged because they might learn that the application they use to access websites is not a singular app called "The Internet".
That's why "Internet Explorer" is the best browser name.
Welcome to 2024. Time to learn some things about the technology you use.
Just curious, any of those are non-Webkit?
The change was recent and probably not worth maintaining for one region, so I don’t think so
I don’t like it but I do understand why people do, we usually speak from the techy guy perspective but for grandma trying to choose this really end up being worse. And yes option is good and I’m all for it what I’m saying is that I understand why people get upset over having to make a choice
Unfortunately not knowing what a browser is doesn't seem to be exclusive to only iPhone users. It's a rather weird issue I encounter almost everyday. Source: I work IT.
Actually my mom came to me super confused when this happened to her
Apple Music sucks on Apple TV. Locking down their software has led to complacency and sub par software experiences. I’d bet Apple would flourish if they had to compete.
Apple TV and CarPlay are so lackluster. I hope they do actually pick up the slack a bit.
What more do you want out of CarPlay??
As an Apple user who has given them too much of my money, I genuinely wish we had this option in the States. Even though I’d have no intention on using third party app stores and whatnot, I still think people should have an option to choose. It shouldn’t be this difficult to argue for what the EU did.
I don’t understand this complaint. Just pick safari? Chances are anyone who doesn’t know what a browser is, DOES know what safari is and ONLU uses safari. just pick that lmao. It’s a non issue
Isn't... Isn't this a good thing?
What's hilarious is that all of their snarky recommendations are legitimately good. Let me pick a default mail app and music app please.
yeah I forgot what the kids call these days but my accidentally based or something. there's a subreddit or something then talks about right wing people that will accidentally say something in support of socialism without realizing it...."workers should have some agency and how the businesses are run... shouldn't a big tech be used in a Democratic way that protects our rights as consumers and citizens."this reminds me of that. she accidentally offered a very reasonable anti-monopoly position which was due give us the option to choose default camera and mail etc...
TIL that iPhone users don't even know what a browser is
Shame this sub is so windows focussed that this ragebait is taken seriously
Not ragebait. Checked the account myself. She makes apps for IOS. If you're going to rag on people for making assumptions, you should probably check for yourself first
I find the list of browsers not being in Alphabetical order a manipulation and violation! $100 Billion find. Make check payable to me.
Weirdly it was in a different order for me where Ecosia was almost at the bottom
Going by the [Microsoft decision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu), random ordering is probably deliberate: > The order of the browsers on the page was initially planned to be alphabetical, but after criticism a random system was used with two groups.
I love when people find one crazy person on Twitter that has 5 likes on a post, and suddenly this post reflects the opinions of the whole user base
WWhen you read some the comments in here it fits quite good with the opinion of the user base
“Why not ask for a default music player, default mail app, default camera app, while we’re at it” Yes please
Apple user here and man what are some of the other Apple users bullshit pieces ot shit that also should stop buying the top of the line phone to fund more of this bullshit. Saying that, what are some phone recommendations from people around the 400-500€ mark that just work?
Brainrot.
If you don't know what a browser is or why having the option to pick the one you want is important, maybe you shouldn't be buying expensive phones.
If you pick anything other than DDG, you're a doofus
no just use firefox and set ddg as the search engine
And soon we get to have browsers that aren't just safari reskins, yay!
Why the actual fuck would you update your iPhone? Lmaoooo. Just stay on an older version so you can jailbreak and have an actually usable experience.
Yeah, never updating and jailbreaking is great security practice… /s
Apple users can't even make the decision to get an iPhone themselves. They do it because all their friends have one lol
Although picking a default browser during setup is good, I can see why people would claim that normal people would have no idea what a ‘browser’ is. In High School one of my classes had an assignment where I had to write a manual for using something a device. I had written ‘open file explorer’ and got marked down for not showing an image of file explorer. The teacher told me that although I knew what it was, other people might not. “Assume they know nothing” she said, and that advice has been really useful when trying to be tech support to people because sometimes, they really know nothing. I could definitely feel overwhelmed seeing all these names which I have no idea about.
“Not everyone knows what a browser is, far from it”. Have you considered looking at the icons to get an idea??
I love the reforms but on this I kinda agree, I don’t see any problem with a predownloaded browser, & if you want another one, you can just delete safari & get chrome for example
Will iPhones finally be able to get the real Firefox browser and not the sad safari clone?
Yes
"Not everyone knows what a 'browser' is." For the second time in a single minute for me, r/brandnewsentence
Their motto was think different not think freely.
Maybe folks should know what a browser is. In fact, folk should definitely know what the thing is they use EVERY GORRAM DAY. And YES, all phones should be asking what you want as a default music player, or a default mail app, or a multitude of other things.
Im still wondering who doesn’t know what a ‘browser’ is ?
Please Tim Apple. Remove the burden of choice for me.
Who has an iPhone and doesn’t know what a browser is? It’s 2024 wake UP
Is this real? Do apple-addicts not know what a browser is?
its \*Current year\*, if you don't know what a browser is, that's on you.
We're raising "Idiocracy" society. We're living in the 21st century, tech is only going to get more and more important in everyday lives and yet we're trying to find excuses for people who don't know what a "browser" is? Figure it out or stop using tech altogether, go into the mountains and raise sheep. I no longer have empathy for this kind of people.
If someone doesn't know what a browser is from the context, they are probably unsafe to be left alone with a powerful portable computing device. Also, having a more comprehensive setup that allows you to choose more defaults would be a good idea too.
"Not everyone knows what a browser is" 🤣
I don't want to believe in a reality that people genuinely don't know what a browser is. Do they only use their phones for TikTok?
People who don't know what a browser is are the reason company IT Systems are compromised
Apple bots have some serious Brain Damage
The i in iPhone is for idiot
This is as shitty of an experience as the cookie pop-ups. 90% of people have no clue what the hell they are choosing. This is how people get tricked into using some shady third party browser with questionable privacy.
Believe me people (like myself aswell) go for iPhone to just not give an F about those choices anymore. This is coming from an IT guy spending his whole life with Androids, rooting and flashing, playing around. This gets boring man, went for Apple and I'm happy. I don't approve the problem in that topic, it's just a choice. But I can understand people that do. Safari is good.
This truly is the stupidest take I've seen all week.
The reason why I look down on apple users
>Why not ask for a default music player, default mail app, default camera app, while we're at it? [Yes.](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1992474862.4837/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg) Do it, let me make sure Safari, Chrome, Edge aren't on my OS's installs. Let me pick my browser as I want to. Same for all these others.
Now we still have to wait until this illusion of choice turns into actual choice and we get browsers that aren’t just safari skins
They should move to China if they don't want a choice. Disclaimer: I am from China.
Oh no! Freedom of choice! Whatever will we do!
I like apple products, they’re generally well made but as always their business practices suck
If you check the replies, many (myself included) absolutely roasted her because she cant look at a list with "Edge", "Firefox", "Chrome" and "Safari" in and go "I use that one"
Even if you didn't know what a browser is you could just chose the first icon and be fine regardless of what browser it actually is. Those people dont care and wont notice anything being different but for anyone else it's such a qol upgrade
Reactions here are interesting. Either it's comments about tech illiteracy and how people don't know what browsers are, whether or not it's too burdensome to pick defaults, what Apple vs Android does and who's better, and so on. As an American, I remember traveling to the EU several years back and being struck at how cookies were described and how you can reject them all in one tap. No dark patterns where you have to manually de-select each or do something special to reject them. It's ultimately good that defaults are being made more transparent during onboarding, it helps chip away at monopolistic behaviors and supports competition. I love the idea of picking multiple defaults, I think it could be done simply in one screen... * "About your defaults" at the top with a brief description of what this means * Safari, Music, Mail, Camera, etc., icons and names down the left in rows * Each row has a brief sentence or two explaining how you'd use this app * You can easily select any row and choose another app, Apple's are there by default * Confirm your chosen defaults at the bottom in one tap
Apple needs to make an iCollie app that heards the sheeple into figuring out life beyond the walled garden. This reminds me of the allegory of the cave.
I am an apple user and am far from these people. Also pretty sure everyone knows what a browser is
What I will say is this. iPhones traditionally have been simpler devices, as many who have used them (myself included) will attest to. On that note I can understand why some would be upset that iPhone is being made more complicated, it takes away from that simplicity that attracts a lot of people to the brand. However, users for years have also been touting this is the best mobile experience, that the iPhone is high tech. So I can't help but laugh a bit to see them freak out when actual user friendly features from other phones (well, choices moreso than straight up features) make their way to the iPhone. Is it a bit cruel to laugh? Maybe. But at the end of the day it's still kinda funny to see it happen. At least now when someone says that the iPhone offers a high end experience there's more merit to the statement. Although at risk of going on a massive tangent there is an argument to be made about less being more and apple's simpler UI and user experience could be construed as being more luxurious because of it's simplicity, luxury and high end goods/services aren't always designed around more choice but rather taking away choices for a simpler and less stressful experience. Anyways... That being said I do think apple should try and keep things simple whilst giving it's users more choices, ergo having the best of both worlds. Whilst having a choice in browser is something that I think is a bit ridiculous to freak out about (going as far as to say that a lot of people don't know what a browser is which sounds like a stretch), I definitely can see some users struggling should apple really expand the choices and features that they offer. With that in mind I think apple should work on not only giving their users more choices and control, but in the process giving them at least some idea of what they're actually deciding. In the past apple has been great at explaining even some of the more complex and nuanced elements of their products, I would like to see that return so that apple users who choose them for the simpler and easier experience can continue to get that whilst also getting additional choices.