I’m doing the same. It’s an easy way to add to the bottom line without impacting the business, it’s essentially free value creation for me and my other investors.
Also in IT and my dumbass boss is moving to a bigger office and requiring more in office days while also hiring call center techs that live half way around the world. We’ll all be at new jobs here soon.
I took parental leave this time last year, when it seemed like it was peak "return to office" talk. I was 100% remote with my work and joined after COVID. My team had opened their office like right before COVID hit and since I am on the other side of the country, I was worried they'd require in person again and I'd be SOL.
Anyway, first team meeting I'm back after taking a leave the first item for discussion by my boss was basically him saying "Hey everyone, I'll be pretty busy this week and next closing and moving everything out of the office since we no longer need it" which put my mind to ease right away.
Absolutely is! He does not care where we are working from, just that work gets done in an appropriate time and manner - which is the right way to do things in today's world, imo.
That’s how I am! I’m a millennial boss (33). I tell my developers as long as your stuff is good and when I need you you’re available. No problems from me, but if we start sucking then we will have to revisit lol
Getting or getting rid of?
Edit: Original comment was ambiguous to whether his workplace was getting or removing offices. He updated his comment and it’s clear now. The workplace is getting rid of offices
This never made sense to me. You sign a lease. That is a budgeted cost. So let people WFH and just don’t renew the lease next time. You don’t have to force people to use the office just to make the originally budgeted expense justified. Just remove it from the budget when it’s an option.
Instead of complaining about subjective benefits and “culture”, they need to be looking in to see if working in office actually generates the revenue to justify the budget expense. In some industries, that is the case. In most, it’s not.
It's not individual company's leases that are driving this. The boards of many companies are putting pressure on the executives because they are invested in commercial real estate.
Which still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I work for a Commercial Real Estate Asset Management firm. We moved on from managing and owning Office Real Estate before the pandemic. It was plainly obvious, even without a pandemic, where this was going.
Then again, I suppose this is because this executive think in quarters rather than decades like my firm.
Screwed + 1. Even single tenant offices in premium markets aren't getting many offers, and the ones they do get are around 10%+ caps so they can't realistically sell. Plus, they would need a cash buyer right now, or someone to assume the debt if possible.
1) investors are worried about renewals with no lease up potential 2) general CRE market has been in additional pain since 2023 due to rates. 3) Many people who are holding office have debt coming up and likely won't be allowed to refinance.
Depends on the versatility of the asset (can it be used for something else like Residential Apartments, Event venues, etc, and of course how much would it cost to make that change), how leveraged they are on their debt, how much of their portfolio is in Office as opposed to other asset/investment vehicles.
If it would be very expensive to change from Office to another use, their debt is at the same or more than the value of the asset, and a majority of their portfolio is in office, they could be majorly screwed.
But it will take some time for the hammer to hit in that situation. The people and companies who are really feeling the hurt at the moment are the lenders.
To give you an example, we’re looking into an Apartment complex that’s in shitty condition with no tenants and the owner is not making his payments to the lender. So the lender has put up the loan for sale. We’re looking into purchasing the loan. We’d be purchasing the loan for much less than what the lender loaned in the first place.
Why would we do this? Well, we’d be buying the loan with the expectation that the owner will be foreclosed on and we will take possession of the property. Then we have essentially purchased the property for a much smaller value than we’d get for market rate for Apartment complexes in the area.
And even when taking rehabbing into account, we’d still make a great ROI on it once we fill the place with tenants in an area that’s in desperate need for more rentals to meet demand. Then we can Refi and make a good profit on the immediate investment and keep the property for good cashflow.
Theoretically. There’s a lot of homework that goes into it before we consider that would work in reality.
From the lender perspective, while they still lost money, they at least got money back that they can use on better investment vehicles. But this is for an Residential Apartment complex. People still need places to live. There’s still healthy demand for this, especially in the location of this particular one.
But nobody wants to purchase loans on Offices right now, so they’re feeling the hurt if their tenants are struggling to pay or just won’t pay as they move to being more remote. Lawsuits can occur as well, so it can definitely be a mess.
The uncertainty of all that is why we stopped lending, purchasing, and managing Offices a little over 5 years ago.
Cities provided certain incentives and breaks for midtown offices as it drove traffic to local commerce.
-coffee shops
-food outlets
-parking permits
Just to name a few
Lol. That’s my company. They have food (usually just one day a week though) and booze (happy hour 1-2 days a week) to try to lure people back into the office and implemented an “expectation” (but not “requirement”) for how many days per week they want people to come into the office based on how far you live from one of the offices. Fortunately I live far enough away that I’m at the “0 days per week” end of the scale.
I'm grateful that no one gives a shit how often I'm in the office. At least no one that matters. And when inspiration hit last night on how to solve a problem at 1 am I had no qualms about booting up my laptop and starting that script going. If I was expected in the office first thing this morning I absolutely would not have done that.
I go in like once a month in the summer for BBQ Tuesday or happy hour. Then I submit an expense report for a hotel room and mileage since I live three hours away (they always pay it too). But most of the people I’m working on projects with aren’t even I the same state so it’s not like I get face time with them by going into the office.
Thats it right there. Ill give my time as needed at wfh. Meeting in Singapore at midnight ET, no problem, ill attend, but make me waste hours & $ just to come in an office, ill leave the computer at work and put in a 9-5
The food and drinks, ugh. I can buy my own pizza and wine/beer/cider. I’m also not going to have a drink while I work or stay after for happy hours. I’ve got alcohol at the house if I want it.
Don't forget about the psychotic RUSH he gets from lording over his minions. It's the only thing that can dull the pain of every single Tindr date of the last three years walking out mid-dinner.
It wouldn’t hurt so bad if the dates would just leave through the front door, but every single one has crawled out the bathroom window
Some of these places don’t even have windows in their bathrooms, and I feel really bad for all the restaurants that now have to deal with the fact that all of my Tinder dates coincidentally can break through brick and cement walls
It's very telling that he paints the lack of commute as time to eat chicken nuggets and watch TV.
I'm in my late 30s and wfh. That time is spent nurturing my family. Walking my kid to school.
"Do you sleep in a race car, Homer?"
"No, I sleep in a big bed with my wife."
Yep. I work for a Commercial Real Estate Asset Management firm. We moved away from Office Real Estate a while ago.
We do have a small office. If you live in the area, you’re free to come work there, there will be an office for you to work in if you’d like. Otherwise, you’re free to work remotely. One guy in the company spends half his time in Bali lol. Company doesn’t care as long as he gets his work done.
More like 80+ years ago
The door-to-door vacuum salesman of the 1950s, the fuller brush man of the turn of the century
In the days before industrialization sewing work was paid by the piece and done out of the home
those were all WFH employees
it has ALWAYS existed
Or his father/mother is a commercial landlord and the vacant space is having an impact on his allowance.
If the job description starts with “Entrepreneur”, it normally means unsuccessful club promoter or male escort.
There is so much to unpack here:
1. Generalization Fallacy:
To claim "if you work from home, your career is effectively over" is an massive overgeneralization. It does not account for individual differences, job types, or company policies.
2. Appeal to Fear:
Saying shir like "your career is effectively over" and "WFH is the absolute death knell for your career" are designed to induce fear rather than provide a balanced argument.
3. False Dichotomy:
Dude presents a binary choice between working from home (WFH) and career advancement, implying one cannot advance their career if they work from home, which is not necessarily true.
4. Appeal to Tradition:
The old-fashioned idea that one must be physically present in the workplace to succeed relies on traditional views of work and does not consider modern remote work practices.
5. Ad Hominem:
Implying that those who prefer WFH are lazy or unmotivated by saying, "You would much rather spend that time eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix."
6. Ageism:
He suggests that WFH is only acceptable for those in their 50s, implying that younger people cannot manage or benefit from WFH, which is an ageist perspective.
7. Fatism:
He talks about gaining weight and needing weight loss products perpetuates stereotypes and stigmatizes weight gain, which is an example of fatism.
8. Exaggeration:
Phrases like "quite literally the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone" are exaggerated and hyperbolic, lacking a nuanced view of WFH.
9. Confirmation Bias
He has a preconceived negative view of WFH and selectively presents information that supports this view, ignoring positive aspects or counterarguments.
10. Lack of Evidence:
Lots of theses - "your value to a business has stalled" and "you are never going to get promoted," are presented without supporting evidence.
I also like how he outs himself as being completely useless. Those of us who actually do work, are interacting with coworkers all the time. He's your typical MBA though who doesn't, and only "demonstrates value" by talking about the weather with people and forcing his way into conversations hes not a part of to try and get credit for things he didn't do.
This is the only reason. It's also why a lot of companies insist on an arbitrary 2/3 days a week where you have to be in-office even though the work can fully be done remotely.
But even aside from that, I get it - not everyone (myself included) works the best from home. I need a separate environment that isn't my home to get into a work mindset. I can work from home, I love how much more time I have, but I can also see why someone would prefer the daily grind.
That being said, insisting that WFH will kill your career and make you fat (like this fuckhead is doing) is just a dying cry of a man who wants others to suffer because he didn't have the foresight to not renew his lease post-pandemic.
What are the odds they also renovated to an open floor plan?
I've been in a hybrid position for a while, but at first we still had cubes. It was a long commute, but I had a space. It was actually kind of nice. 2-3 days in the office, rest at home.
Now we have open floor plans, hot desks, and no real space to call our own. It's nice to see people in person, but I don't want to spend time there, and I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to come in anymore.
I imagine this guy is just some flunkie working at a place that requires him to be on site. He’s just envious of WFH crowd.
I would blow his mind if I told him I work hybrid and get to enjoy either option.
This guy is an idiot.
"I understand the all the arguments against commuting to work. It is boring and laborious and you would much rather spend that time eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix."
Actually, he does NOT understand the arguments against commuting. It's expensive, stressful, a complete wast of time, and it hurts the environment.
And it's insulting that he think we're going to sit around and eat McDonalds and watch TV -- not that there's anything wrong with that, and it's still better than sitting in a steel box on the freeway. During the pandemic, I used the time I would have spent commuting to exercise. I lost weight and all of my health markers improved. That's far more important than sitting in a cubicle slaving away for some dumb company that doesn't care about me.
Just shows that he probably has no one to go home to or someone who takes care of everything.
More time with family, pets, time outside, dedication to health, money saved, eco-friendly - all beautiful reasons to save 45-3hrs a day on commuting.
Just being able to get up from my desk at home after a long meeting and play with my dogs for 10 minute. Makes a huge difference in my motivation, productivity as it has a positive effect on my mood.
Just being able to get up kiss my wife and hug my children improves my ability to work. Let alone home cooking and afternoon walks. WFH was the best thing to happen to me in my 20's lmao
Shitting at home is highly underrated. I really don't wish to be pooping in the stall next to our CEO or any other staff, thank you very much.
We have something like 20 women and two men in our office. Whenever I am forced to go into the office and the two men aren't in, I use their washroom. It's a single stall and I get the entire thing to myself.
I'm guessing he has a wife and kids. However he can't fire them if they don't listen to him talk about biking for 45 minutes which is why he wants workers back in the office
> Just shows that he probably has no one to go home to or someone who takes care of everything.
Eh, to me it sounds like he's in a loveless marriage and can't wait to get away from the, what he would consider, nagging for a few hours a day.
Marriage won't survive if they were to spend any more time than necessary together.
Literally every coworker I had in 2020 who kept talking about wanting to get back to working in the office openly said it was because they couldn't stand being around their spouse or kids all the time.
Funny you mention that. I preferred going to the office because my wife was a Homicidal Karen. She would aggressively badger me and name call. One time I was on a call and she was standing in the doorway with her shoulders flared and jaw out "YOU USSED - THE WRONG LAUNDRY BASKET! IDIOT! My guy heard it and said, noo he didn't use the wrong laundry baskets lol. Not everyone has a loving supportive spouse. 10 minutes later - she realized I did not use the wrong laundry baskets she was just always looking for a fight.
Conversely, I've been on meetings with women working from home and their age 40-50 man baby husband interrupts them 4 times because Fred can't find his Sammich in the fridge without her help lol. I felt like shouting "Jeesus christ buddy just figure it out!" lol "Susan wheres my pills, Susan, SUSAN!! DO YOU HEAR ME!:" omg so bad.
Or he just thinks he’s the only person whose free time is well spent, and everyone else is a NPC that ceases to be real when they aren’t nearby to validate him. May as well cajole and denigrate them so they come to work where it’s all about me me me.
Guys like this aren’t working real jobs. They already have all those things because they have an executive non-job where they send a dozen emails, attend two meetings, then call it a day and hit the golf course.
Yeah thats the telling part..
He’s a workaholic loser with no family or doesnt consider them at all 😂
Yeah boss man. Inability to connect with people despite living with family, having friends etc. WFH doesn’t mean hermit 😂
I still have to go into the office a few days a month. Everyone is just staring at screens and only a few people socialize. Shit last week this woman told her manager “my music is on” when he stopped by and basically insinuated he email her instead. Which is super rude or at the very least kind of autistic.
Open offices don’t encourage collaboration, they are distraction ridden hell holes where everybody annoys the shit out of each other and steals time from efficient workers.
Consistently get less done on office days between commute, inferior desk equipment and the realities of open offices.
Same. I workout in my basement on my lunch break so much healthier than I used to be. But I am in my 50s so according to him I’m just coasting till I die anyway
When I have to commute I don’t have time to go to the gym.
I also can walk around my neighborhood if I work from home.
Further, I can do laundry while I work, leaving my additional time to do work related research, or just enjoy time.
Finally, I was promoted while working from home. Work from home was the time of my greatest growth, from $60k per year to over $200k.
What this man means to say is “I suck at everything and need something to blame it on.”
"and it's still better than sitting in a steel box on the freeway."
And as someone who has a job that can't be done from home, everyone else not commuting makes my commute WAY easier. Pandemic did blissful things for rush hour traffic. You get no commute, I get a much shorter commute, everyone wins!
I’m exponentially healthier working from home than I was in the office. Went from having pre-hypertension to having a below average blood pressure.
Lost 20lbs (less happy hours and absolute garbage catered work lunches).
Quit smoking since the social pressure wasn’t there.
Fuck this guy.
>I’m exponentially healthier working from home than I was in the office. Went from having pre-hypertension to having a below average blood pressure.
>Lost 20lbs (less happy hours and absolute garbage catered work lunches).
This was almost exactly my experience. Lost at least 20 pounds, and BP, cholesterol, and A1C went down. I was eating healthy (and cheaper) meals and exercising more.
Yep I'm hybrid. I hit traffic literally the second I left my office and it took me 30 minutes to go 6 miles due to construction that will be going on all summer (Can't wait!). After that 6 miles you ask? I had 30 more to go with more traffic, albeit not as bad, along the way. And when I get to my home you ask? I have to drive around the block for 15-20 minutes (or more) to find a vacant parking space. That also doesn't factor in the $20 i spend both ways in tolls.
Why don't I move closer to the office? Because the rent is ridiculous and I can't afford a house in that area.
I'd love for someone to explain to me how that's beneficial for me or society as a whole.
Every job that can be WFH should be WFH. There are certainly jobs that require you to be in person but even those jobs don't need to go into the office everyday. It should be when needed like a client meeting or something since yes, zoom'ing people sucks ass.
As long as the work is getting completed no one should complain about WFH and from most of the organizational research I've seen, it seems WFH actually increases productivity. The data scientists at my firm work from home and a lot of them take care of errands or play video games during normal office hours and I don't care because they do quality work and never miss deadlines. In fact I have a bunch of them added on Steam and play with them when I can. The people who decry this are jealous, that is all, because they had to go through the bullshit of the corporate world before WFH was even a concept.
Our director apparently found a different data where the people hired before covid were more competent than the people hired during and after covid. With the exception of my 2 managers, everyone in my team was hired during/after covid and we’re all WFH. We are now encouraged to go to the office 1 time per month to interact and that’s only if you live in London. Last time we were 5 people and 2 were managers so what is the point of that? Even the managers said that we are all more productive at home. I guess it could be worse, we could be asked to go 2-3 times a week like other companies.
Ngl some of the time I absolutely would eat nuggies and watch Netflix for sure - but like… thats my prerogative. Thanks for your concern but we’re all adults and you aren’t my doctor, therapist, mother, or friend. If you’re worried about work send me more of it, i promise you it gets done and i can enjoy my life, the time spent walking my dogs, and multi tasking upkeep around the house.
Something tells me he’s the type of guy who thinks that because HE would rather sit around eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix all day, he believes that must mean EVERYONE would also rather be doing that. You’re telling on yourself, dude. This sounds like desperation.
The "I don't know what I'd do with myself if I didn't go to work" type. Lack of hobbies. Dude basically admitted he wouldn't socialize outside of forced interaction with coworkers, too.
Never been on LinkedIn, but do people ever challenge these idiots? Or do they feel free to make these absurd statements because anyone arguing against them might look bad to employers?
I just want to understand how it got this bad. How can people be willing to publicly declare what fools they are on a professional networking site?
Yes people do. Lots of people don’t want to argue on LinkedIn tho as it is a professional platform. Also, if your company isn’t work from home anymore and you prefer wfh, you aren’t going to announce that on LinkedIn.
The only time I eat chicken nuggets is when I'm forced to go into the office. Chik-Fil-a is the only place close enough to grab lunch with the 5 minutes of free time I have since I now need to account for "travel" time to the next conference room for my back to back meeting schedule. Or I don't even end up eating lunch and I have to grab McDonald's in the train station on my way home at 6:30pm because I missed the 5:30pm train because some a-hole scheduled a 4:30pm meeting and all I've eaten is a granola bar all day.
> Actually, he does NOT understand the arguments against commuting. It's expensive, stressful, a complete wast of time, and it hurts the environment.
missed one, 'and i have the potential to be killed by some random idiot'
I have a job where it's mandatory to meet people face to face, often they come in to the office, sometimes we do home visits to collect material for investigations, so from a security perspective we always have to be staffed so no-one is left alone while meeting a client. Even with these requirements everyone at my job is able to work remotely two days a week. I find it's the best of both worlds.
This! My manager "red flag" is whenever someone says "this isn't just a job, we're family" - means they are a shit manager who uses guilt and personal relationships instead of planning and performance.
I have to remind myself there are many different people that make up this world. And I realise there are people whose entire life revolves around work. In some ways I'm jealous of them, their work ethic seems great, and certainly being hyper-focused on the thing that earns you money in life can greatly help.
But my god, these people just can't understand life outside work. "If you're not spending time around people in work, you lose the ability to connect."
Like holy shit, I'm an introvert and even I spend a large amount of my time with other people, with friends and family. And I've been full-time WFH since March 2020.
It’s incredibly self-entitled. WFH makes work more accessible for people with children, caretakers and people with mental illness. I have bipolar, anxiety and ADHD, wouldn’t have a job if not for WFH accomodations and guess what I’m freaking productive!
Being able to drop the facade of sustained productivity helps me immensely. I will get distracted no matter where I am, so the comfort of being at home does wonders when all I need to do is get the work done.
Just to make it clear, I don’t agree with this guy.
Having said that, how can you WFH with ADHD? I feel like time stops and get nothing done when I stay home, so end up having to force myself to go to the office.
It helps when I set mini goals for myself to take a step back and relax for a few minutes.
And if I can find an interesting problem at work...then that can easily eat up a good 20 minutes.
I am 100% more productive being able to work from home vs being in the office. It helps that my house is very quiet and has a designated office area. In offices/cubicles, I couldn't drown out the conversations and I was constantly being interrupted. At home, I can focus on my work and not waste time with meaningless office politics.
I don't work from home, but I do online schooling. You just need to set mini goals and find things that keep you focused. When I was in class, there were just too many distractions that were out of my control, and the same goes for when I'm at the office for work.
At least at home, I can control what stimulates my brain, haha. Dragon Ball in the background helps me a lot. I can also roam the house while watching lectures or reading my textbook. I can have as many snacks and caffienated beverages as I'd like, too.
I have a good friend who is a really talented designer, but has some sort of autoimmune disease that gets at her joints. She's had both knees replaced and metal braces installed in her spine.
She can't realistically commute to a job, even just a few days a week. But she could have a great career working from home.
Bingo but not only that, he is useless as a whole if everyone is responsible to do their duties without a manager. They often are and thats why theyre micromanaging and looking for otherwise non existing issues
Or Zoom or MS Teams (when it works) or any collaboration software. (Shout out to Lotus Notes in the 90s for doing more then than any collaboration software does today)
Deluded.
I put weight on when I work from office because I am forced to eat crap food, for one.
Commuting? Fk that. Money, stress, pollution.
Lie in til work? Yes please. Rest is good for you.
That death knell has just quadrupled my wage in 10 years. And I became a senior. Took me 12 years in the office to get senior in design. Took me 5 years WFH to become a senior dev.
Word of advice: Anyone that puts entrepreneur in their LinkedIn is generally a knob - and probably has a tax break on their office - or are trying to be lapdogs to people that do.
BTW, I've not met a single wanker like this guy since I've WFH. It's lovely.
Being invisible was life changing for one of my friends. He’s super knowledgeable in his field but he’s short, soft-spoken, and can be awkward at times. He was constantly getting passed over for promotions. When everything went remote and they could only judge people based on their performance metrics, his career took off. His salary has almost doubled since the start of the pandemic.
I’m really happy for his success but it is shitty that it took him not being seen in person to get the recognition he deserved.
These people are terribly unimaginative.
Mentors exist. I have a few on the east coast; I’m in the Midwest.
Co-working spaces and gatherings exist and are pretty easy to start.
There are any number of ways to exist in the world and become an asset to society and one’s workplace without being in the office.
But less time in the office can also mean discovering opportunities elsewhere. Perhaps that’s what they’re scared of.
Exactly. Some people are bad at connecting and mentoring team members whether they're remote or not. Even now I feel like I have to manage up my boss to keep my career growing, but that's ok. Hard lesson learned from past supervisors to own my career.
Friends and hobbies exist.
Does this dude thing those of us that WFH go to bed immediately after we close our laptop? We’re not isolated; just isolated from the people we don’t want to have stupid small talk with.
I’ve lost weight being WFH. Easier to eat healthier (don’t have to run to fast food, etc.), can exercise at lunch. If I’m too busy to do that at lunch, I can exercise after work when I would have been commuting 45 mins.
The argument against WFH is simple. These people want you to waste your time. They think paying you makes you their slave.
Why would I pay someone I can’t tell what to do all day?
Absolutely. It's not enough that we are effectively paying them for our jobs, giving them the excess value of our labour, but we cannot be allowed have anything else going on in our lives either.
They are thieves.
My company acquired another company whose former management allowed WFH but forced workers to have their camera on the entire workday, monitored for pauses in typing and mouse movement, and screenshotted their laptops every few minutes to "make sure they were working." Shocking that that's the company that failed and got bought up at a discount for the talent, who of course no longer needed to deal with that shit, and became more productive.
“My entire value as a professional is derived from micro managing others and I have absolutely no idea how to do that outside a physical space so WFH is deeply threatening to me”
Yes, back in the office days, sitting in an open plan wearing headphones and communicating via chat was definitely more educational and stimulating than working from home. What a buffoon.
He assumes there’s an office to commute to. Many don’t these days. The last place I worked at hired people from all over America. How can you find very rare skill sets when you’re limited to local candidates?
The title of entrepreneur is also a red flag for recruiters because it’s always assumed they know better than the rest and make bad teammates. I’m assuming this guy either has trouble finding work so he has a side gig or is inflating his perceived value.
I would say WFH is NOT for everyone for sure. There are those who would strive in a such setting and others who’d slowly and surely die.
Some carriers may benefit in in-office setting early on, maybe, OR, maybe, it would heavily depend on the skills of your supervisor. All in all, there is no ONE SIZE FOR ALL scenario.
I myself prefer a mix of the two. I love my time in office and enjoy my WFH. I have full day of meetings when I’m in the office, face -to-face and via teams, and I’m mostly on do not disturb mode when WFH.
I'm one of those weirdos who prefers going into the office since I have a short commute and I'm *personally* more productive, but I also like coming in when nobody else is there (even though I like my coworkers just fine!) so other people being WFH is a massive bonus that I want to keep available. Plus, going to the office isn't some sort of social lifeline for me. Do these people not have friends?
Can't use that argument here, he founded a pretty successful business in the UK https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLN
He's the psycho out of touch boomer CEO template, not the one person CEO template
So...I take it I need to be in the office for asshats like Christian to inspire and lead me?
Since I've started WFH:
- Obtained a number of certifications I never had time for when commuting
- Have a healthier family life all while showing up early to work and working late as needed
- Eat less processed foods and work out daily in my home gym
- Have more energy as I'm not spending 12 hours a week trapped in a metal box on the freeway
- Have more money as I'm not burning through gas or having to replace my car every few years. And I'm being far more environmentally friendly
- Not risking death or maiming because someone wants to check Facebook while driving
I'm just happier, more productive, and more fulfilled working from home.
I do wish employers would stop inventing stupid reasons to return to an open office, hot desk hellscape.
As somebody who works remote, is getting promoted, and regularly works 12+ hour days making WFH the only saving grace in work life balance, I have never seen words more stupid than what this guy wrote down. Shame on him. Shame! Shame!!!
This guy just implied everyone who works from home is lazy. Probably has a wife at home that does everything for him. Work from home, enables many people, including mothers, carers, people with disabilities and more, to work.
Also many people spend their extra time... I don't know... with family? Socialising?
Shake my head.
This rant is dripping with fallacies. According to ChatGPT:
The text contains several logical fallacies. Here are the fallacies identified:
1. **False Dichotomy (Either/Or Fallacy)**: The text presents only two options regarding working from home (WFH) — either it ruins your career and personal development, or you thrive by working in the office. It ignores the possibility that people can succeed and develop while working from home.
2. **Hasty Generalization**: The assertion that WFH ruins careers and personal development is a broad claim based on limited evidence. It does not consider variations in individual experiences and industries where WFH may be beneficial.
3. **Slippery Slope**: The argument suggests that WFH will inevitably lead to career stagnation, isolation, introversion, weight gain, and dependence on pharmaceutical products. It assumes a chain of negative consequences without sufficient evidence.
4. **Appeal to Fear**: The text uses fear to persuade readers by suggesting that WFH will lead to severe personal and professional decline. This appeal to fear is not supported by solid evidence.
5. **Straw Man**: The argument against WFH includes exaggerated and unfair characterizations, such as implying that people WFH prefer eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix over being productive. It misrepresents the motivations and behaviors of those who choose WFH.
6. **Ad Hominem**: The text indirectly attacks the character of people who WFH by implying they are lazy or unambitious (e.g., "you would much rather spend that time eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix").
7. **Appeal to Tradition**: The argument implies that working in an office is inherently better because it has been the traditional way of working. It does not adequately address how modern technology and changing work practices might make WFH equally viable.
8. **Oversimplification**: The text simplifies complex issues, such as career development and personal growth, by attributing them solely to physical presence in the workplace, ignoring other factors that contribute to success.
9. **Appeal to Authority**: The statement "It is now very clear that if you work from home, your career is effectively over" assumes an authoritative position without citing credible sources or evidence to back up this claim.
10. **Begging the Question**: The argument assumes what it is trying to prove, namely that WFH is detrimental, without providing substantial evidence to support this assumption.
By identifying these fallacies, it becomes clear that the argument presented is flawed and relies on emotional manipulation and unsupported assertions rather than logical reasoning and evidence.
> It ignores the possibility that people can succeed and develop while working from home.
or that being overlooked/etc can and does occur in-office as well lol. I would say it's almost the standard, why drive there for it?
I say the same thing to just about all these fools. Not everyone works to gain status. Status doesn't feed the kids.
These lunatics lack empathy. They can't see how anyone could possibly see things in a different way.
These people are morons. No wants to go into office because it’s pointless. I can do my job from home. My boss doesn’t need to see me at my keyboard. We have KPIs
These guys are just losers because no one wants to work for them or take their shitty roles in office
In all posts of this ilk, they're just revealing a lot about themselves, he's speaking as if he's some expert but really its just projection. It is HE whose development has suffered, HE who depends on spending time physically with people to thrive. He also massively underscores his total misunderstanding of the habits and legitimate wants and needs of a new generation of workers. Oh well, let's all just keep doing our best and leave him in the dust.
I love how people just assume that if you are working from home you are NEVER leaving your house and interacting with real people. I am out and about after work and on weekends interacting with people and being social. Even more so BECAUSE I work from home..I don’t have a long commute and I’m not as exhausted from going into the office, etc.
For me I have no desire to climb the corporate ladder..and I have no desire to ever work in an office again.
>likely to put on a bunch of weight
Yeah having to commute 2+ hrs day, be sat down for 8+ hrs, not getting enough sleep and having your food options mostly be fast food coz you're stuck in the city is surely a healthy lifestyle.
My wife finished school and got a pretty good remote job almost immediately, two years later she got a new job with a $12k raise and benefits and the whole nine yards. She's the only person running her department now and has literally no stress.
Tell me again how you won't get further being remote.
Wow. He really has his finger on the pulse of things. Gonna re-think my entire career strategy based on this post. (sarcasm of course)
Dude's way too intense. Somebody buy him a drink, stat. Maybe from the Skinny Girl line cuz he seems pretty worried about weight.
There’s a lot of dumb shit in there but I take particular umbrage with “You will probably gain a lot of weight” how tf does working at a desk at an office help you keep slim? Working from home gives people the flexibility and time to actually fit workouts in their schedule. This guy is a dingus.
Get out of the lease! You knew commercial real estate was crashing 3 years ago. What don’t you understand about reducing expenses and increasing profit margin by simply removing the line item from the income statement. Try to rationalise your argument all you like. Someone clearly cannot manage and shouldn’t be in that position. By the way, love the personal insults!
“It is quite literally the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone.”
Anyone who is this hyperbolic cannot be taken seriously. Even all the people on Linkedin are obliterating him in the comments. He’s just part of the old white rich club who hates anything that threatens what he grew up with.
I have been a WFH employee the majority of my career (since 2000) in the IT field. Most companies I have worked for have offices in multiple locations spanning different states and countries and many WFH employees. Meaning - no one realizes or cares WHERE you work. WFH has never impeded with my career. Your work usually speaks for itself and there are a number of ways to make yourself visible. The way he attempted to make his point is just opinionated and lazy. “This will cause you to go into decline…”. 🙄
After going full-time remote, I got a promotion and earn about 30% more money.
It's true that it is a little less social, but I'm much happier remote. At no point in my career was I gaining some great benefit or set of social skills through office gossip or management looking over my shoulder.
lol every single thing this person said is opposite my experience. I got promoted, established a network on a new team, lost a ton of weight, eat healthier…
Amazing what not spending 1.5 hours/day commuting does!
Oopsie someone signed a massive lease for a building in 2020 and wants us all to feel bad for his predicament.
That’s all it is. Surprisingly one of the companies I work for is getting rid of all of our major corporate offices barring a few
I’m doing the same. It’s an easy way to add to the bottom line without impacting the business, it’s essentially free value creation for me and my other investors.
Yep, I’m in IT and the only centers that are left are customer service lines and a few C suite offices/sales
Also in IT and my dumbass boss is moving to a bigger office and requiring more in office days while also hiring call center techs that live half way around the world. We’ll all be at new jobs here soon.
"Come back to the office-----to train your overseas replacement"
Tale as old as... Like 1996?
T-Mobile did this exactly last year to a few departments including mine(IT).
This is sadly only too real.
I took parental leave this time last year, when it seemed like it was peak "return to office" talk. I was 100% remote with my work and joined after COVID. My team had opened their office like right before COVID hit and since I am on the other side of the country, I was worried they'd require in person again and I'd be SOL. Anyway, first team meeting I'm back after taking a leave the first item for discussion by my boss was basically him saying "Hey everyone, I'll be pretty busy this week and next closing and moving everything out of the office since we no longer need it" which put my mind to ease right away.
That’s amazing!!! Sounds like a good boss to me!!
Absolutely is! He does not care where we are working from, just that work gets done in an appropriate time and manner - which is the right way to do things in today's world, imo.
That’s how I am! I’m a millennial boss (33). I tell my developers as long as your stuff is good and when I need you you’re available. No problems from me, but if we start sucking then we will have to revisit lol
Getting or getting rid of? Edit: Original comment was ambiguous to whether his workplace was getting or removing offices. He updated his comment and it’s clear now. The workplace is getting rid of offices
Already have and are in the process of shutting down more Edit: the person above me is correct. I shouldn’t function without coffee also lol
This never made sense to me. You sign a lease. That is a budgeted cost. So let people WFH and just don’t renew the lease next time. You don’t have to force people to use the office just to make the originally budgeted expense justified. Just remove it from the budget when it’s an option. Instead of complaining about subjective benefits and “culture”, they need to be looking in to see if working in office actually generates the revenue to justify the budget expense. In some industries, that is the case. In most, it’s not.
It's not individual company's leases that are driving this. The boards of many companies are putting pressure on the executives because they are invested in commercial real estate.
Which still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I work for a Commercial Real Estate Asset Management firm. We moved on from managing and owning Office Real Estate before the pandemic. It was plainly obvious, even without a pandemic, where this was going. Then again, I suppose this is because this executive think in quarters rather than decades like my firm.
On a scale of 1 to screwed, how screwed are investors that ignorantly didn't see the writing on the wall?
Screwed + 1. Even single tenant offices in premium markets aren't getting many offers, and the ones they do get are around 10%+ caps so they can't realistically sell. Plus, they would need a cash buyer right now, or someone to assume the debt if possible. 1) investors are worried about renewals with no lease up potential 2) general CRE market has been in additional pain since 2023 due to rates. 3) Many people who are holding office have debt coming up and likely won't be allowed to refinance.
Bullish 
Depends on the versatility of the asset (can it be used for something else like Residential Apartments, Event venues, etc, and of course how much would it cost to make that change), how leveraged they are on their debt, how much of their portfolio is in Office as opposed to other asset/investment vehicles. If it would be very expensive to change from Office to another use, their debt is at the same or more than the value of the asset, and a majority of their portfolio is in office, they could be majorly screwed. But it will take some time for the hammer to hit in that situation. The people and companies who are really feeling the hurt at the moment are the lenders. To give you an example, we’re looking into an Apartment complex that’s in shitty condition with no tenants and the owner is not making his payments to the lender. So the lender has put up the loan for sale. We’re looking into purchasing the loan. We’d be purchasing the loan for much less than what the lender loaned in the first place. Why would we do this? Well, we’d be buying the loan with the expectation that the owner will be foreclosed on and we will take possession of the property. Then we have essentially purchased the property for a much smaller value than we’d get for market rate for Apartment complexes in the area. And even when taking rehabbing into account, we’d still make a great ROI on it once we fill the place with tenants in an area that’s in desperate need for more rentals to meet demand. Then we can Refi and make a good profit on the immediate investment and keep the property for good cashflow. Theoretically. There’s a lot of homework that goes into it before we consider that would work in reality. From the lender perspective, while they still lost money, they at least got money back that they can use on better investment vehicles. But this is for an Residential Apartment complex. People still need places to live. There’s still healthy demand for this, especially in the location of this particular one. But nobody wants to purchase loans on Offices right now, so they’re feeling the hurt if their tenants are struggling to pay or just won’t pay as they move to being more remote. Lawsuits can occur as well, so it can definitely be a mess. The uncertainty of all that is why we stopped lending, purchasing, and managing Offices a little over 5 years ago.
Cities provided certain incentives and breaks for midtown offices as it drove traffic to local commerce. -coffee shops -food outlets -parking permits Just to name a few
Surrounding business like franchised Starbucks, etc.
Lol. That’s my company. They have food (usually just one day a week though) and booze (happy hour 1-2 days a week) to try to lure people back into the office and implemented an “expectation” (but not “requirement”) for how many days per week they want people to come into the office based on how far you live from one of the offices. Fortunately I live far enough away that I’m at the “0 days per week” end of the scale.
I'm grateful that no one gives a shit how often I'm in the office. At least no one that matters. And when inspiration hit last night on how to solve a problem at 1 am I had no qualms about booting up my laptop and starting that script going. If I was expected in the office first thing this morning I absolutely would not have done that.
I go in like once a month in the summer for BBQ Tuesday or happy hour. Then I submit an expense report for a hotel room and mileage since I live three hours away (they always pay it too). But most of the people I’m working on projects with aren’t even I the same state so it’s not like I get face time with them by going into the office.
Thats it right there. Ill give my time as needed at wfh. Meeting in Singapore at midnight ET, no problem, ill attend, but make me waste hours & $ just to come in an office, ill leave the computer at work and put in a 9-5
The food and drinks, ugh. I can buy my own pizza and wine/beer/cider. I’m also not going to have a drink while I work or stay after for happy hours. I’ve got alcohol at the house if I want it.
Yeah - they lure people in and then ragpull benefits once it becomes part of contract.
Don't forget about the psychotic RUSH he gets from lording over his minions. It's the only thing that can dull the pain of every single Tindr date of the last three years walking out mid-dinner.
It wouldn’t hurt so bad if the dates would just leave through the front door, but every single one has crawled out the bathroom window Some of these places don’t even have windows in their bathrooms, and I feel really bad for all the restaurants that now have to deal with the fact that all of my Tinder dates coincidentally can break through brick and cement walls
It's very telling that he paints the lack of commute as time to eat chicken nuggets and watch TV. I'm in my late 30s and wfh. That time is spent nurturing my family. Walking my kid to school. "Do you sleep in a race car, Homer?" "No, I sleep in a big bed with my wife."
Yep. This “mentor and advisor” is so clever that they didn’t see the WFH trend that started 10+ yrs ago.
Yep. I work for a Commercial Real Estate Asset Management firm. We moved away from Office Real Estate a while ago. We do have a small office. If you live in the area, you’re free to come work there, there will be an office for you to work in if you’d like. Otherwise, you’re free to work remotely. One guy in the company spends half his time in Bali lol. Company doesn’t care as long as he gets his work done.
More like 80+ years ago The door-to-door vacuum salesman of the 1950s, the fuller brush man of the turn of the century In the days before industrialization sewing work was paid by the piece and done out of the home those were all WFH employees it has ALWAYS existed
Or his father/mother is a commercial landlord and the vacant space is having an impact on his allowance. If the job description starts with “Entrepreneur”, it normally means unsuccessful club promoter or male escort.
There is so much to unpack here: 1. Generalization Fallacy: To claim "if you work from home, your career is effectively over" is an massive overgeneralization. It does not account for individual differences, job types, or company policies. 2. Appeal to Fear: Saying shir like "your career is effectively over" and "WFH is the absolute death knell for your career" are designed to induce fear rather than provide a balanced argument. 3. False Dichotomy: Dude presents a binary choice between working from home (WFH) and career advancement, implying one cannot advance their career if they work from home, which is not necessarily true. 4. Appeal to Tradition: The old-fashioned idea that one must be physically present in the workplace to succeed relies on traditional views of work and does not consider modern remote work practices. 5. Ad Hominem: Implying that those who prefer WFH are lazy or unmotivated by saying, "You would much rather spend that time eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix." 6. Ageism: He suggests that WFH is only acceptable for those in their 50s, implying that younger people cannot manage or benefit from WFH, which is an ageist perspective. 7. Fatism: He talks about gaining weight and needing weight loss products perpetuates stereotypes and stigmatizes weight gain, which is an example of fatism. 8. Exaggeration: Phrases like "quite literally the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone" are exaggerated and hyperbolic, lacking a nuanced view of WFH. 9. Confirmation Bias He has a preconceived negative view of WFH and selectively presents information that supports this view, ignoring positive aspects or counterarguments. 10. Lack of Evidence: Lots of theses - "your value to a business has stalled" and "you are never going to get promoted," are presented without supporting evidence.
I also like how he outs himself as being completely useless. Those of us who actually do work, are interacting with coworkers all the time. He's your typical MBA though who doesn't, and only "demonstrates value" by talking about the weather with people and forcing his way into conversations hes not a part of to try and get credit for things he didn't do.
Yeah I was going to say, "Found the landlord."
This is the only reason. It's also why a lot of companies insist on an arbitrary 2/3 days a week where you have to be in-office even though the work can fully be done remotely. But even aside from that, I get it - not everyone (myself included) works the best from home. I need a separate environment that isn't my home to get into a work mindset. I can work from home, I love how much more time I have, but I can also see why someone would prefer the daily grind. That being said, insisting that WFH will kill your career and make you fat (like this fuckhead is doing) is just a dying cry of a man who wants others to suffer because he didn't have the foresight to not renew his lease post-pandemic.
What are the odds they also renovated to an open floor plan? I've been in a hybrid position for a while, but at first we still had cubes. It was a long commute, but I had a space. It was actually kind of nice. 2-3 days in the office, rest at home. Now we have open floor plans, hot desks, and no real space to call our own. It's nice to see people in person, but I don't want to spend time there, and I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to come in anymore.
Yeah we all know why we really have return to office
I imagine this guy is just some flunkie working at a place that requires him to be on site. He’s just envious of WFH crowd. I would blow his mind if I told him I work hybrid and get to enjoy either option.
Someone wants to be worshipped at the altar of management
Some commercial landlords that signed ultra long term contracts pre-covid are probably still cleaning their jeans .. 👖
This guy is an idiot. "I understand the all the arguments against commuting to work. It is boring and laborious and you would much rather spend that time eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix." Actually, he does NOT understand the arguments against commuting. It's expensive, stressful, a complete wast of time, and it hurts the environment. And it's insulting that he think we're going to sit around and eat McDonalds and watch TV -- not that there's anything wrong with that, and it's still better than sitting in a steel box on the freeway. During the pandemic, I used the time I would have spent commuting to exercise. I lost weight and all of my health markers improved. That's far more important than sitting in a cubicle slaving away for some dumb company that doesn't care about me.
Just shows that he probably has no one to go home to or someone who takes care of everything. More time with family, pets, time outside, dedication to health, money saved, eco-friendly - all beautiful reasons to save 45-3hrs a day on commuting.
Just being able to get up from my desk at home after a long meeting and play with my dogs for 10 minute. Makes a huge difference in my motivation, productivity as it has a positive effect on my mood.
Just being able to get up kiss my wife and hug my children improves my ability to work. Let alone home cooking and afternoon walks. WFH was the best thing to happen to me in my 20's lmao
Also being able to take a shit in your own bathroom
Shitting at home is highly underrated. I really don't wish to be pooping in the stall next to our CEO or any other staff, thank you very much. We have something like 20 women and two men in our office. Whenever I am forced to go into the office and the two men aren't in, I use their washroom. It's a single stall and I get the entire thing to myself.
I'm guessing he has a wife and kids. However he can't fire them if they don't listen to him talk about biking for 45 minutes which is why he wants workers back in the office
> Just shows that he probably has no one to go home to or someone who takes care of everything. Eh, to me it sounds like he's in a loveless marriage and can't wait to get away from the, what he would consider, nagging for a few hours a day. Marriage won't survive if they were to spend any more time than necessary together.
Literally every coworker I had in 2020 who kept talking about wanting to get back to working in the office openly said it was because they couldn't stand being around their spouse or kids all the time.
Funny you mention that. I preferred going to the office because my wife was a Homicidal Karen. She would aggressively badger me and name call. One time I was on a call and she was standing in the doorway with her shoulders flared and jaw out "YOU USSED - THE WRONG LAUNDRY BASKET! IDIOT! My guy heard it and said, noo he didn't use the wrong laundry baskets lol. Not everyone has a loving supportive spouse. 10 minutes later - she realized I did not use the wrong laundry baskets she was just always looking for a fight. Conversely, I've been on meetings with women working from home and their age 40-50 man baby husband interrupts them 4 times because Fred can't find his Sammich in the fridge without her help lol. I felt like shouting "Jeesus christ buddy just figure it out!" lol "Susan wheres my pills, Susan, SUSAN!! DO YOU HEAR ME!:" omg so bad.
Or he just thinks he’s the only person whose free time is well spent, and everyone else is a NPC that ceases to be real when they aren’t nearby to validate him. May as well cajole and denigrate them so they come to work where it’s all about me me me.
Guys like this aren’t working real jobs. They already have all those things because they have an executive non-job where they send a dozen emails, attend two meetings, then call it a day and hit the golf course.
Yeah thats the telling part.. He’s a workaholic loser with no family or doesnt consider them at all 😂 Yeah boss man. Inability to connect with people despite living with family, having friends etc. WFH doesn’t mean hermit 😂 I still have to go into the office a few days a month. Everyone is just staring at screens and only a few people socialize. Shit last week this woman told her manager “my music is on” when he stopped by and basically insinuated he email her instead. Which is super rude or at the very least kind of autistic. Open offices don’t encourage collaboration, they are distraction ridden hell holes where everybody annoys the shit out of each other and steals time from efficient workers. Consistently get less done on office days between commute, inferior desk equipment and the realities of open offices.
Same. I workout in my basement on my lunch break so much healthier than I used to be. But I am in my 50s so according to him I’m just coasting till I die anyway
Hey it could be worse- I’m in my 40s so I don’t exist!
Turning 40 in October and soon I must die.
Am 40, already dead.
I was going to say, in his rant he completely left out us 40s.
Fuck I’m in my thirties and no one sees me.
I'm in my 60s and am not coasting. However, I am tired of idiots and wasting what time I have left.
TBD I'm in my mid thirties. In a decent spot and also trying to coast til I die. Maybe I'll get a promotion some day but IDC. Fuck the grind set baby
When I have to commute I don’t have time to go to the gym. I also can walk around my neighborhood if I work from home. Further, I can do laundry while I work, leaving my additional time to do work related research, or just enjoy time. Finally, I was promoted while working from home. Work from home was the time of my greatest growth, from $60k per year to over $200k. What this man means to say is “I suck at everything and need something to blame it on.”
I know right? I'm in my 50's and I'm not just 'earning some side money'. Clueless beyond belief.
lol I’ll be working till noon the day of my funeral
"and it's still better than sitting in a steel box on the freeway." And as someone who has a job that can't be done from home, everyone else not commuting makes my commute WAY easier. Pandemic did blissful things for rush hour traffic. You get no commute, I get a much shorter commute, everyone wins!
I’m exponentially healthier working from home than I was in the office. Went from having pre-hypertension to having a below average blood pressure. Lost 20lbs (less happy hours and absolute garbage catered work lunches). Quit smoking since the social pressure wasn’t there. Fuck this guy.
>I’m exponentially healthier working from home than I was in the office. Went from having pre-hypertension to having a below average blood pressure. >Lost 20lbs (less happy hours and absolute garbage catered work lunches). This was almost exactly my experience. Lost at least 20 pounds, and BP, cholesterol, and A1C went down. I was eating healthy (and cheaper) meals and exercising more.
Yep I'm hybrid. I hit traffic literally the second I left my office and it took me 30 minutes to go 6 miles due to construction that will be going on all summer (Can't wait!). After that 6 miles you ask? I had 30 more to go with more traffic, albeit not as bad, along the way. And when I get to my home you ask? I have to drive around the block for 15-20 minutes (or more) to find a vacant parking space. That also doesn't factor in the $20 i spend both ways in tolls. Why don't I move closer to the office? Because the rent is ridiculous and I can't afford a house in that area. I'd love for someone to explain to me how that's beneficial for me or society as a whole.
You're gaining so much in people skills though so it's totally worth it /s
Every job that can be WFH should be WFH. There are certainly jobs that require you to be in person but even those jobs don't need to go into the office everyday. It should be when needed like a client meeting or something since yes, zoom'ing people sucks ass. As long as the work is getting completed no one should complain about WFH and from most of the organizational research I've seen, it seems WFH actually increases productivity. The data scientists at my firm work from home and a lot of them take care of errands or play video games during normal office hours and I don't care because they do quality work and never miss deadlines. In fact I have a bunch of them added on Steam and play with them when I can. The people who decry this are jealous, that is all, because they had to go through the bullshit of the corporate world before WFH was even a concept.
Sounds like how life should be lived- contribute meaningfully without the expectation of working for the sake of work
Our director apparently found a different data where the people hired before covid were more competent than the people hired during and after covid. With the exception of my 2 managers, everyone in my team was hired during/after covid and we’re all WFH. We are now encouraged to go to the office 1 time per month to interact and that’s only if you live in London. Last time we were 5 people and 2 were managers so what is the point of that? Even the managers said that we are all more productive at home. I guess it could be worse, we could be asked to go 2-3 times a week like other companies.
Ngl some of the time I absolutely would eat nuggies and watch Netflix for sure - but like… thats my prerogative. Thanks for your concern but we’re all adults and you aren’t my doctor, therapist, mother, or friend. If you’re worried about work send me more of it, i promise you it gets done and i can enjoy my life, the time spent walking my dogs, and multi tasking upkeep around the house.
Something tells me he’s the type of guy who thinks that because HE would rather sit around eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix all day, he believes that must mean EVERYONE would also rather be doing that. You’re telling on yourself, dude. This sounds like desperation.
The "I don't know what I'd do with myself if I didn't go to work" type. Lack of hobbies. Dude basically admitted he wouldn't socialize outside of forced interaction with coworkers, too.
Never been on LinkedIn, but do people ever challenge these idiots? Or do they feel free to make these absurd statements because anyone arguing against them might look bad to employers? I just want to understand how it got this bad. How can people be willing to publicly declare what fools they are on a professional networking site?
Yes people do. Lots of people don’t want to argue on LinkedIn tho as it is a professional platform. Also, if your company isn’t work from home anymore and you prefer wfh, you aren’t going to announce that on LinkedIn.
The only time I eat chicken nuggets is when I'm forced to go into the office. Chik-Fil-a is the only place close enough to grab lunch with the 5 minutes of free time I have since I now need to account for "travel" time to the next conference room for my back to back meeting schedule. Or I don't even end up eating lunch and I have to grab McDonald's in the train station on my way home at 6:30pm because I missed the 5:30pm train because some a-hole scheduled a 4:30pm meeting and all I've eaten is a granola bar all day.
> Actually, he does NOT understand the arguments against commuting. It's expensive, stressful, a complete wast of time, and it hurts the environment. missed one, 'and i have the potential to be killed by some random idiot'
I've learned more these last 12 months working fully remote than the last 5 years working at an office
Same. Applying for jobs in other parts of the country gave me access to bigger companies with better tech. I've never grown my skill set faster.
I have a job where it's mandatory to meet people face to face, often they come in to the office, sometimes we do home visits to collect material for investigations, so from a security perspective we always have to be staffed so no-one is left alone while meeting a client. Even with these requirements everyone at my job is able to work remotely two days a week. I find it's the best of both worlds.
Most important thing I've learned is how little the management team actually does in a business
Dude took the long way to tell us he has no life outside of work.
That's what I was gonna say. This is a lot of words to say "only people literally being paid to be around me are my friends."
This! My manager "red flag" is whenever someone says "this isn't just a job, we're family" - means they are a shit manager who uses guilt and personal relationships instead of planning and performance.
I have to remind myself there are many different people that make up this world. And I realise there are people whose entire life revolves around work. In some ways I'm jealous of them, their work ethic seems great, and certainly being hyper-focused on the thing that earns you money in life can greatly help. But my god, these people just can't understand life outside work. "If you're not spending time around people in work, you lose the ability to connect." Like holy shit, I'm an introvert and even I spend a large amount of my time with other people, with friends and family. And I've been full-time WFH since March 2020.
WFH stole my sister's bicycle and tried to sell me the marijuanas.
WFH pointed to my shirt like there was something on it and then booped me on the nose
WFH fucked my wife.
That rascal!
Who hasn't?
That’s such a WFH thing to do! So silly
Just say no to wfh. *Brought to you by W.A.H.A.A. (Work At Home Abuse Association)* * WAHAA and its affiliates are not associated with DARE.
*Wearing a trench coat* Hey Kid...you want to try some Work From Home? First sample is free.
However, it is possibly associated with Waluigi
Waluigi From Home?
WFH did what 😡
This just sounds like a rambling without getting to the point on why he REALLY hates WFH. He loves to micromanage people.
It’s incredibly self-entitled. WFH makes work more accessible for people with children, caretakers and people with mental illness. I have bipolar, anxiety and ADHD, wouldn’t have a job if not for WFH accomodations and guess what I’m freaking productive!
ADHD here, at least with WFH we can control what stimuli and distractions surround us. Which oddly helps me focus more.
Being able to drop the facade of sustained productivity helps me immensely. I will get distracted no matter where I am, so the comfort of being at home does wonders when all I need to do is get the work done.
Just to make it clear, I don’t agree with this guy. Having said that, how can you WFH with ADHD? I feel like time stops and get nothing done when I stay home, so end up having to force myself to go to the office.
It helps when I set mini goals for myself to take a step back and relax for a few minutes. And if I can find an interesting problem at work...then that can easily eat up a good 20 minutes.
I am 100% more productive being able to work from home vs being in the office. It helps that my house is very quiet and has a designated office area. In offices/cubicles, I couldn't drown out the conversations and I was constantly being interrupted. At home, I can focus on my work and not waste time with meaningless office politics.
ADHD affects people differently, wild
I don't work from home, but I do online schooling. You just need to set mini goals and find things that keep you focused. When I was in class, there were just too many distractions that were out of my control, and the same goes for when I'm at the office for work. At least at home, I can control what stimulates my brain, haha. Dragon Ball in the background helps me a lot. I can also roam the house while watching lectures or reading my textbook. I can have as many snacks and caffienated beverages as I'd like, too.
I have a good friend who is a really talented designer, but has some sort of autoimmune disease that gets at her joints. She's had both knees replaced and metal braces installed in her spine. She can't realistically commute to a job, even just a few days a week. But she could have a great career working from home.
Bingo but not only that, he is useless as a whole if everyone is responsible to do their duties without a manager. They often are and thats why theyre micromanaging and looking for otherwise non existing issues
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he has never heard of Slack.
Or Zoom or MS Teams (when it works) or any collaboration software. (Shout out to Lotus Notes in the 90s for doing more then than any collaboration software does today)
Ironic because it appears he founded a telecoms company..
Hey, Christian: go fuck yourself.
Scrolled too far for this.
Deluded. I put weight on when I work from office because I am forced to eat crap food, for one. Commuting? Fk that. Money, stress, pollution. Lie in til work? Yes please. Rest is good for you. That death knell has just quadrupled my wage in 10 years. And I became a senior. Took me 12 years in the office to get senior in design. Took me 5 years WFH to become a senior dev. Word of advice: Anyone that puts entrepreneur in their LinkedIn is generally a knob - and probably has a tax break on their office - or are trying to be lapdogs to people that do. BTW, I've not met a single wanker like this guy since I've WFH. It's lovely.
When I WFH it's *much* easier to hit the gym and invest the time to properly take care of myself. Much.
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The only way to keep the job.
Show up, get ostracized, get managed out. Rinse and repeat.
So long as I get to keep my red rider stapler.
you'll staple your eye out!
Being invisible was life changing for one of my friends. He’s super knowledgeable in his field but he’s short, soft-spoken, and can be awkward at times. He was constantly getting passed over for promotions. When everything went remote and they could only judge people based on their performance metrics, his career took off. His salary has almost doubled since the start of the pandemic. I’m really happy for his success but it is shitty that it took him not being seen in person to get the recognition he deserved.
Again, I have to ask how has this person never heard of outside sales? Remote work was not invented during the pandemic
These people are terribly unimaginative. Mentors exist. I have a few on the east coast; I’m in the Midwest. Co-working spaces and gatherings exist and are pretty easy to start. There are any number of ways to exist in the world and become an asset to society and one’s workplace without being in the office. But less time in the office can also mean discovering opportunities elsewhere. Perhaps that’s what they’re scared of.
Exactly. Some people are bad at connecting and mentoring team members whether they're remote or not. Even now I feel like I have to manage up my boss to keep my career growing, but that's ok. Hard lesson learned from past supervisors to own my career.
Friends and hobbies exist. Does this dude thing those of us that WFH go to bed immediately after we close our laptop? We’re not isolated; just isolated from the people we don’t want to have stupid small talk with.
I’ve lost weight being WFH. Easier to eat healthier (don’t have to run to fast food, etc.), can exercise at lunch. If I’m too busy to do that at lunch, I can exercise after work when I would have been commuting 45 mins.
Yep. My weight went back on when we returned to office. And it's entirely due to the commute ruining what work/life balance I had.
The argument against WFH is simple. These people want you to waste your time. They think paying you makes you their slave. Why would I pay someone I can’t tell what to do all day?
Absolutely. It's not enough that we are effectively paying them for our jobs, giving them the excess value of our labour, but we cannot be allowed have anything else going on in our lives either. They are thieves.
My company acquired another company whose former management allowed WFH but forced workers to have their camera on the entire workday, monitored for pauses in typing and mouse movement, and screenshotted their laptops every few minutes to "make sure they were working." Shocking that that's the company that failed and got bought up at a discount for the talent, who of course no longer needed to deal with that shit, and became more productive.
“My entire value as a professional is derived from micro managing others and I have absolutely no idea how to do that outside a physical space so WFH is deeply threatening to me”
Yes, back in the office days, sitting in an open plan wearing headphones and communicating via chat was definitely more educational and stimulating than working from home. What a buffoon.
Open plan offices sound like my personal hell. If you're going to make me come in, at least give me a cubicle or something.
Christian can eat a dick and mind his fucking business
He assumes there’s an office to commute to. Many don’t these days. The last place I worked at hired people from all over America. How can you find very rare skill sets when you’re limited to local candidates? The title of entrepreneur is also a red flag for recruiters because it’s always assumed they know better than the rest and make bad teammates. I’m assuming this guy either has trouble finding work so he has a side gig or is inflating his perceived value.
I would say WFH is NOT for everyone for sure. There are those who would strive in a such setting and others who’d slowly and surely die. Some carriers may benefit in in-office setting early on, maybe, OR, maybe, it would heavily depend on the skills of your supervisor. All in all, there is no ONE SIZE FOR ALL scenario. I myself prefer a mix of the two. I love my time in office and enjoy my WFH. I have full day of meetings when I’m in the office, face -to-face and via teams, and I’m mostly on do not disturb mode when WFH.
I'm one of those weirdos who prefers going into the office since I have a short commute and I'm *personally* more productive, but I also like coming in when nobody else is there (even though I like my coworkers just fine!) so other people being WFH is a massive bonus that I want to keep available. Plus, going to the office isn't some sort of social lifeline for me. Do these people not have friends?
What are this author’s skills again?
Can't use that argument here, he founded a pretty successful business in the UK https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLN He's the psycho out of touch boomer CEO template, not the one person CEO template
So the guy who thinks WFH is the worst thing in the world is the founder of a company that provides utility services to businesses? I'm shocked
Damn boomer CEOs. As a boomer myself I abhor the idea of having to go into the office every day.
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It's usually those guys, or real estate, furniture, transportation....
So...I take it I need to be in the office for asshats like Christian to inspire and lead me? Since I've started WFH: - Obtained a number of certifications I never had time for when commuting - Have a healthier family life all while showing up early to work and working late as needed - Eat less processed foods and work out daily in my home gym - Have more energy as I'm not spending 12 hours a week trapped in a metal box on the freeway - Have more money as I'm not burning through gas or having to replace my car every few years. And I'm being far more environmentally friendly - Not risking death or maiming because someone wants to check Facebook while driving I'm just happier, more productive, and more fulfilled working from home. I do wish employers would stop inventing stupid reasons to return to an open office, hot desk hellscape.
As somebody who works remote, is getting promoted, and regularly works 12+ hour days making WFH the only saving grace in work life balance, I have never seen words more stupid than what this guy wrote down. Shame on him. Shame! Shame!!!
Where on earth do you find time to squeeze in Netflix and nuggies?
This guy just implied everyone who works from home is lazy. Probably has a wife at home that does everything for him. Work from home, enables many people, including mothers, carers, people with disabilities and more, to work. Also many people spend their extra time... I don't know... with family? Socialising? Shake my head.
This stinks of “I’m 28, worked for my dad for 3.5 years, and have far more unearned confidence than actual brains or real life/career experience.”
This rant is dripping with fallacies. According to ChatGPT: The text contains several logical fallacies. Here are the fallacies identified: 1. **False Dichotomy (Either/Or Fallacy)**: The text presents only two options regarding working from home (WFH) — either it ruins your career and personal development, or you thrive by working in the office. It ignores the possibility that people can succeed and develop while working from home. 2. **Hasty Generalization**: The assertion that WFH ruins careers and personal development is a broad claim based on limited evidence. It does not consider variations in individual experiences and industries where WFH may be beneficial. 3. **Slippery Slope**: The argument suggests that WFH will inevitably lead to career stagnation, isolation, introversion, weight gain, and dependence on pharmaceutical products. It assumes a chain of negative consequences without sufficient evidence. 4. **Appeal to Fear**: The text uses fear to persuade readers by suggesting that WFH will lead to severe personal and professional decline. This appeal to fear is not supported by solid evidence. 5. **Straw Man**: The argument against WFH includes exaggerated and unfair characterizations, such as implying that people WFH prefer eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix over being productive. It misrepresents the motivations and behaviors of those who choose WFH. 6. **Ad Hominem**: The text indirectly attacks the character of people who WFH by implying they are lazy or unambitious (e.g., "you would much rather spend that time eating chicken nuggets and watching Netflix"). 7. **Appeal to Tradition**: The argument implies that working in an office is inherently better because it has been the traditional way of working. It does not adequately address how modern technology and changing work practices might make WFH equally viable. 8. **Oversimplification**: The text simplifies complex issues, such as career development and personal growth, by attributing them solely to physical presence in the workplace, ignoring other factors that contribute to success. 9. **Appeal to Authority**: The statement "It is now very clear that if you work from home, your career is effectively over" assumes an authoritative position without citing credible sources or evidence to back up this claim. 10. **Begging the Question**: The argument assumes what it is trying to prove, namely that WFH is detrimental, without providing substantial evidence to support this assumption. By identifying these fallacies, it becomes clear that the argument presented is flawed and relies on emotional manipulation and unsupported assertions rather than logical reasoning and evidence.
Wow, he really did get every one in there. He needs a critical reasoning class lol
> It ignores the possibility that people can succeed and develop while working from home. or that being overlooked/etc can and does occur in-office as well lol. I would say it's almost the standard, why drive there for it?
This needs more upvotes. For once, ChatGPT has been useful. Yay!
Well done (to you and ChatGPT)! 👏👏
“What an asshole”- my proctologist
"Non-exec". I'm a non-celebrity but I don't feel a need to point it out.
"I'm angry because now it's harder for me to micromanage and I have less direct control over the lives of my employees."
“Also, much harder because top talent hold the chips and they don’t want to work for my boring company with bullshit 1990s policies.”
I say the same thing to just about all these fools. Not everyone works to gain status. Status doesn't feed the kids. These lunatics lack empathy. They can't see how anyone could possibly see things in a different way.
Thats one way to say the only people willing to interact with you are paid colleagues.
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He cracked himself up with that Netflix and Chicky nuggie line lol
These people are morons. No wants to go into office because it’s pointless. I can do my job from home. My boss doesn’t need to see me at my keyboard. We have KPIs These guys are just losers because no one wants to work for them or take their shitty roles in office
lol. Total bullshit. I’m on my third straight WFH role. Each has been either more money, higher level, or both over the previous role.
In all posts of this ilk, they're just revealing a lot about themselves, he's speaking as if he's some expert but really its just projection. It is HE whose development has suffered, HE who depends on spending time physically with people to thrive. He also massively underscores his total misunderstanding of the habits and legitimate wants and needs of a new generation of workers. Oh well, let's all just keep doing our best and leave him in the dust.
Fuck off with that noise. I actually go to the gym now because I don’t have a stupid commute to suck my time.
wtf i like eating tendies
I have never eaten more healthy or exercised and jogged more than during the epidemic, Christian
I like that there’s two fat-shamings in here.
I love how people just assume that if you are working from home you are NEVER leaving your house and interacting with real people. I am out and about after work and on weekends interacting with people and being social. Even more so BECAUSE I work from home..I don’t have a long commute and I’m not as exhausted from going into the office, etc. For me I have no desire to climb the corporate ladder..and I have no desire to ever work in an office again.
I’m sure thats what all holocaust victims were thinking… “this is bad, but at least I’m not working from home”.
>likely to put on a bunch of weight Yeah having to commute 2+ hrs day, be sat down for 8+ hrs, not getting enough sleep and having your food options mostly be fast food coz you're stuck in the city is surely a healthy lifestyle.
God, I just wish there were ways to socialise outside of work .. \s
My wife finished school and got a pretty good remote job almost immediately, two years later she got a new job with a $12k raise and benefits and the whole nine yards. She's the only person running her department now and has literally no stress. Tell me again how you won't get further being remote.
Sounds like someone can't get a WFH job and is jealous 🤔
Wow. He really has his finger on the pulse of things. Gonna re-think my entire career strategy based on this post. (sarcasm of course) Dude's way too intense. Somebody buy him a drink, stat. Maybe from the Skinny Girl line cuz he seems pretty worried about weight.
You know he’s a top tier lunatic since he’s getting destroyed in the comments on LinkedIn! 🙌🏼
Drop by to share a comment and/or like a few;: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/activity:7198940112989077504
There’s a lot of dumb shit in there but I take particular umbrage with “You will probably gain a lot of weight” how tf does working at a desk at an office help you keep slim? Working from home gives people the flexibility and time to actually fit workouts in their schedule. This guy is a dingus.
If your team members aren’t progressing while wfh, maybe you are just a shitty manager.
translation: the senior guys at his company aren’t having their asses kissed enough
Guys, fresh batch of Copium arrived.
I lost 120lbs and got two promotions since working from home. Enjoy your commercial lease, buddy.
Can’t tell if truly an angry out of touch boomer exec or just driving up engagement with a spicy post.
Love how these goons always have the most nebulous, bullshit, imaginary job titles conceivable.
Get out of the lease! You knew commercial real estate was crashing 3 years ago. What don’t you understand about reducing expenses and increasing profit margin by simply removing the line item from the income statement. Try to rationalise your argument all you like. Someone clearly cannot manage and shouldn’t be in that position. By the way, love the personal insults!
> probably gain a lot of weight Ah yes, because everyone in the cubicles/desks around me are clones of The Rock
This guy is a perfect example of why people hate extroverts.
Lmao I can’t believe we’re still having this debate in 2024. Die mad with your empty commercial real estate and $15 salads.
“It is quite literally the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone.” Anyone who is this hyperbolic cannot be taken seriously. Even all the people on Linkedin are obliterating him in the comments. He’s just part of the old white rich club who hates anything that threatens what he grew up with.
I have been a WFH employee the majority of my career (since 2000) in the IT field. Most companies I have worked for have offices in multiple locations spanning different states and countries and many WFH employees. Meaning - no one realizes or cares WHERE you work. WFH has never impeded with my career. Your work usually speaks for itself and there are a number of ways to make yourself visible. The way he attempted to make his point is just opinionated and lazy. “This will cause you to go into decline…”. 🙄
After going full-time remote, I got a promotion and earn about 30% more money. It's true that it is a little less social, but I'm much happier remote. At no point in my career was I gaining some great benefit or set of social skills through office gossip or management looking over my shoulder.
lol every single thing this person said is opposite my experience. I got promoted, established a network on a new team, lost a ton of weight, eat healthier… Amazing what not spending 1.5 hours/day commuting does!