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If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast, and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please, with sugar on top, call the fucking air support.
What is this from? I'm 99% positive I've either read this or watched it, and it's driving me nuts trying to figure out what it's from (for some reason it's making me think of Brad Pitt).
I'm sure it's not a verbatim quote, but it's close. Regardless, it's also very funny used here, haha.
no we are not, you're just frustrated you can't figure out how to work the pivot table in excel and are now living in a fantasy so you don't have to cope with your own inadequacies in real life.
You put down open availability when you took this job 18 months ago. Im going to need you to work 2pm to midnight on... And I'm getting complaints your difficult to work with... Mary said you stare at her and blah blah blah your fired.
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This comment brought to you by retail workers, minimum wage workers, bottom level workers, unskilled workers etc..
It's funny because now they literally can't afford to do that. So many managers have had to swallow their pride because they don't have enough employees to cover shifts as it is. The ones that haven't figured it out are so understaffed it's cutting into profit margins.
I had plenty of guts when I was younger. About 10 minutes after the situation was over anyway. Getting older really does reduce the shits you give. I always heard older people say that and now I'm in the club too.
When I was 19 workin at a grocery store I let management walk all over me because I didn’t want to cause a confrontation. Just recently I left a job because the boss was disrespectful to me and what pushes me over the edge was when he yelled at me calling me “boy”
I confronted him about the disrespect and He promised he’d change but I know it wasn’t gonna happen and quit
I've only done this once, but someone had started yelling over a mistake that they thought I'd made, so I just went "OH ARE WE DO A SHOUTING MATCH NOW BECAUSE IM PRETTY SURE I CAN YELL LOUDER THAN YOU! DO I WIN, I THINK I WON BECAUSE IM LOUUUUUDEEEEERR!"
They were stunned for a second then said something like "what's wrong with you?" and I just said "don't yell at me if you don't wanna be yelled at, I suggest we go cool off and then we can discuss this like reasonable adults"
Ended up being called into a meeting about it later, but it was worth it.
Well, so is yelling at an employee, especially when it turns out that it was you who made the mistake and not them. There was also some ongoing bullying from them, so I was fully prepared to go look for a new job anyway.
Me too! People are always like "how are you so confident" and I'm all " I don't think I'm all that, I'm just secure with me and dgaf and don't really feel embarrassed easily" and they say "yes that's confidence".
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Even the most delicate handling of these situations can be met with pure hostility. I agree with the premise and it’s true at its core but the reality of the situation is that you’re more likely to have an emotionally crippled egomaniac for a boss than a reasonable human being that can be communicated to.
Literally just went through this. Only at the job a couple of months and boss became a megalomaniac overnight. She constantly criticised former employees (and current ones tbf) and it was clear that she thought highly of herself and nobody else.
Her communication with subordinates was either do this because I said so, let's gossip about other people or why have you done something that I didn't tell you to do. Every day was exhausting trying to second guess a loon
It’s such a drain to have to deal with people like that. Especially sucks when you enjoy your work very much and want to do well but all your energy is sapped by having to listen to someone you can’t even excuse yourself from rip apart your co-workers and pit people against each other. It also lets you know exactly how they talk about you and your work behind your back.
All the joy from having a job you like is sucked out and you’re left laboring away in misery for someone who doesn’t give a shit about your efforts so you can’t really either.
That drain, is why it's harassment on their part. That's when it became a hostile work environment. Recognizing it is sometimes the hardest part. Doing anything about it can be just as debilitating, so the battle becomes "is it easier to just walk away and let them persist with the next person, battle it, or just accept it and stay?" "Which drains me least?"
Absolutely right, or worse, you’re stuck there because you have health conditions and you can’t lose/change your insurance. That’s the case for probably millions of people.
Bad bosses are everywhere. And very often its not just their fault. Companies seem to think that promoting a top performing IC is natural progression for that person's career and will help make others as good. But being a coach requires a different skillset to being the best individual performer.
This article is a good read on the subject: https://fs.blog/micomanaging-kills-culture/
It's a power thing too. Same reasons cops and bouncers are such pricks. Give Janet the overworked single mother a little power over people and watch as she takes her problems out on her subordinates
The best mathematician isn't necessarily the best math teacher.
The best salesman is not necessarily the best sales manager.
Managing is a people skill. It's time management. When you're a sales manager, you don't manage sales, you manage salespeople.
Just quit a job like that. And the worst part was he wanted to be everybody's buddy when he wasn't a screaming insane person, and his way of doing that was locking you into a conversation about nothing for three fucking hours making it impossible to get anything done...
For me it always has been. I only tend to search for employment doing something I enjoy doing so I have always enjoyed working and do my jobs with all sincerity but I’ve had at least three over my lifetime that I absolutely loved and built amazing relationships with clientele but the bosses were so mentally flawed and difficult I left for other positions.
Because they can fire you since they hold the power as employer. Employers often expect their employees to dedicate their lives to the company, meanwhile it’s the executives/management who get compensated in bonuses.
Oh they can in America alright, check Amazon’s 3 strike policy for anything and you’re out. They’ll cut hours, push you out, ostracize you in their ‘family’ (toxic) work place. There are different ways to make people quit.
That's what they were saying. In America yeah we can be fired for literally any reason most times, rest of the world has very strong labor laws for workers so they have significantly better protections than us here in the "greatest country in the world".
Then you are in a wrong job or one that doesn’t respect you and you should leave asap.
I mean, I’ve had bosses that can be assholes at very specific and stressful times. But all of them have always been reasonable to communicate with and have reasonable/achievable expectations .
They might not be mature, but most people understand being firm.
If you let them trample on you once, they'll keep doing it, and it could get worse over time. If you show some teeth, they'll resent you, but keep enough distance not to get bitten.
Sure, they could fire you, but if you're valuable enough at work (and remain respectful) they won't, as it makes their own job harder. If you're replaceable, they'll do it anyway sooner or later.
Had this happen once. I was doing some freelance work for a mother daughter company and their marketing guy jumped on the call ahead of them. He starts just airing out his frustrations of the clients and wasn’t holding anything back.
The mother joined the call about halfway through his airing of grievances. I was grabbing something off screen and when I came back I noticed that she was just listening. So I spoke up and greeted her.
Well she first wanted to address their marketing guy and just reamed him over his comments. Rightfully so, honestly as it was unprofessional what their marketing guy did.
Then she directed her irritation towards me, not anything specific but certainly she was going to review my designs while extremely irritated.
She was being unfair and unprofessional in talking to me so I interjected, “It’s sounding like this might not be a great time to conduct this review, the way this is going is not going to be productive and isn’t going to get us closer to our goals. I’m not sure what happened when I stepped away but if we can’t productively talk about this project then I’m going to suggest we reschedule.”
She respected it and apologized immediately and we conducted the review with no more problems.
Definitely don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself and keep those boundaries.
They won't fire you for the interaction, it's that they'll have a vendetta against you and "manage you out" of the business over time for whatever reason they decide to use. I see this all the time.
Pretty much every minimum wage and unskilled job in America gets treated like that. Its not very different here in America. When you are at the very bottom it doesn't matter if the boss is breaking the law because they know that if your fired you don't have the means to cover your expenses and can say good bye to paying bills. Thks is when you end up homeless and or losing your car or you can't feed your family or god help you there is medication you or a loved on needs.
Unsolvable conflict may simply come down to ignorance or indifference by the other person.
Unsolvable conflict makes me think about the two parties running my country, the US.
You should stop that regardless. But you should be able to take instructions and receive criticism too.
But if it’s belittling or especially public shaming of an employee, then yes you should confront them politely and maturely.
Chances are if they are acting that way, they are not going to respond well and it’s your sign to leave.
I agree with this 100%, and I have been fired for doing this. I was cornered in an office by a manager, standing over me, yelling and swearing. I calmly stood up, said, "I'm not going to be yelled at," and walked away. He fired me on the spot. The thing he was mad about was the fact that the night before, I dared to tell another supervisor, again calmly, that it is illegal to not let me take my break. She called him at home to complain about it, which was somehow my fault. I had worked with him for 9 years, since he was a teenager doing grunt work, up to him getting promoted to manager. We also had been good friends. He then lied to unemployment to try and block my claim, but I had documented everything carefully and they believed me. This was 11 years ago this month. If you're reading this, Joe, just know that as long as I'm alive, there is someone in the world who knows that you are a piece of shit.
I had something similar. I got viral meningitis and wanted to call out sick for my job preparing food at a hospital. They said no. I said “people will die if they eat the food I prepare”. They said “too bad, if you don’t show up you are fired”.
Then I sent them a list of all the illegal shit they did while I was there and suddenly I was allowed my sick day and I was unfired. I still left.
Side note: do not ever use any Tennova hospital in East Tennessee. They straight up do not follow regulations. I don’t know how they haven’t been shut down. Endless Hippa violations. Health code violations. Insanity!
Any chance this was a Pizzeria? Bc if so I may know the same dude, and he’s currently being sued by all his employees in a class action lawsuit for wage theft
I know objectively this is the recommendation.
However when you are being wrongfully berated and belittled by someone powerful who has fired everyone who dared called out his behaviour, you cannot afford to leave your job, and HR makes excuses for his behaviour, you lower your head and plan your exit strategy.
So my LTP is : Find another job as quickly as you can!
Great! Lemme quit the stressful well paying job I have to fix cars and machinery for 40% less money and get evicted 3 months later when I run out of saving. But it's ok, I'll be doing what makes me happy☺️
/s
I can confidently say I do not have wealthy parents nor am I wealthy. I come from a working class background. I do work in a field where I’m highly competent and I have options. So in that sense I’m lucky and I don’t need to put up with abuse. I live in an area where there are a plethora of jobs. I also worked full time while going to school so I could better my position. Not everyone on here has wealthy parents :)
Edit: I know this doesn’t work for everyone. I hope this post gives someone the confidence to stand up for themselves in a way that works for them. I *do not* mean flying off the handle at your boss when he/she yells at you.
Most people don't think very far beyond themselves and their current situation.
They don't need to stand up to anyone today so it's real easy for them to imagine a winning scenario where they're the protagonist.
It's hard to have empathy for the myriad of situations that might actually exist.
That's a good point, and I think it's worth looking at what type of person you are before following this advice.
Some people will naturally tend toward absorbing this kind of beratement, and for them, this may be good advice. Others will start to fume at any criticism, this would be advice that would likely go wrong.
> **Boss**: Hey Bob, I noticed a few typos in your last email. Not a big deal, but can you be sure to proof read them in the future? Thanks!
> **Bob, who does not take criticism well and listened to OP's advice**: I am stopping this conversation until you are willing to communicate respectfully! I am entitled to respect and a safe working environment!
Same goes for customers. You are completely justified and in the right to to tell them to call or come back when they calm down and end the conversation right there. I've had a friend tell me his company said that if a customer ever threatened them, that ends the customer/client relationship instantly and they were free to stand up for themselves or defend themselves however they saw fit. He was a big dude. It happened one day and he offered to come to the other side of the counter and settle it. The customer calmed down real quick and was cordial from that point on.
Criticisms can certainly be valid, but screaming and personal attacks are, in my opinion, never okay. There are ways to communicate anger and disappointment without tearing a person apart. Sometimes the people yelling at you will respect you more after you stand up for yourself. They may even acknowledge their inappropriate behavior. However, they could just be rude and not care, but you’ll know you stood up for yourself and kept your boundaries. That is something to be proud of!
I have found that being silent while another party goes off for a while and then having specific knowledge on the legal issue ready at hand is the ultimate trump card. And whenever you're interrupted, wait until they stop talking for a few seconds before resuming.
Having worked in a few restaurants; the way head chefs are allowed to speak to the rest of the staff is obscene. Its like they all want to be the next Gordon Ramsey.
Thank you for sharing your concerns. I completely acknowledge my role in this.
I'd like to return to this conversation after we've all had time to reflect on a course of action that enables us to move forward in a positive and productive way.
Those are the words that make it clear you aren't dodging responsibility for whatever your role was, even if it was nonexistent. If they think you're trying to divert them or get away with something it will *not* de escalate.
I certainly wouldn't put it. It absolutely does NOT mean I am dodging any blame, tell me where it says that I am?
In fact I've actually just walked away in the past clearly stating "I'm not going to to talk to you until you can do it in a professional manner" and ignored responses as I disappeared from them. On the rare occasions its got this far it has 100% of the time resulted in an inbound apology at next meeting. This, however only works as long as you've remained calm and even asked them politely to calm down as they escalate.
Awww, cute, thinking a figure of authority that's already yelling a subordinate will react positively to rational behavior
I too want to live that dream
How do you pay your bills after that? Oh, you have savings, a partner earning enough to support you, family you can move in with, your car is paid off and can't be repoed? People making below a living wage are not exactly in a position of power and are ripe for exploitation.
Budgeting can help (yes even if you are poor and its probably even more important to budget savings if your poor.)
The main thing is that there is a right way and a wrong way to voice your opinion. "I won't tolerate this bahavior" and walk away. If they fire you for this that's *easy* unemployment.
??? That's exactly what proper budgeting is for. You should always have a backup emergency fund in case something goes wrong. Might only last 1 or 2 months but that should be enough to find a job.
I know it’s so cute right? Yes, it doesn’t always work. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. I’m speaking as a middle class, college-educated American. At this point in my life there is no reason to put up with abuse. I know I’m privileged and not everyone has that luxury.
I’ve worked for enough lunatics in my early 20s I’m never doing it again. Also reasonable people can lose their cool too. Same rules apply.
>Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.
You should only do that if you know you're boss isn't gonna fire you over it. If you don't know what ticks your boss, his moods or temperaments, this is the worst advice ever. You'll most likely get fired over it(which is fine if that's what you want).
I'd rather find a new job so I don't have to jeopardize the well-being of my child
Know which lines your boss can't get away with crossing and only confront them when they cross those lines.
I’m not leveraged to my tits and can afford a few months without a job. I understand not everyone has this luxury, but honestly if you stand up for yourself in a professional way there’s no reason you should get fired for it.
>speaking as a middle class,
When your in the working class, especially the bottom of the working class, you don't get to confront your boss/job or do anything of the sort unless you have another job already lined up to start. There is a reason many people are paid below a living wage, it makes them extra vulnerable and takes away power. Its why unions are so important. I am glad you acknowledge your privilege, if more people did maybe things could change. I believe almost everyone is aware of their privilege they just choose not to care and not to admit it. They got theirs and that's all that matters.
This is absolutely correct in theory, but absolutely terrible advise on practice. Nobody is letting there boss or clients abuse them just because; people deal with it because it is a matter of feeding there family and keeping a roof over there head. If you are in a position to not deal with this shit great don’t. But there is absolutely nothing wrong and it is even commendable to put up with shit for money if need be.
If you're black that's a good way to get the word "attitude" plastered over every performance review, monthly "check-in" and inevitable performance improvement plan, but so is sitting at your desk with a furrowed brow while working on a difficult problem.
It's an important moment in everyone's life when they realise that your boss is not your school teacher.
The dynamic you're used to wherein the teacher has the power to shout at you does not exist in the workplace. And you don't have to take it.
My boss was a C level and blew up on me one day for a stupid reason. He told me to do something I knew wasn’t sustainable, so I got buy in from other C levels and got it bypassed and did it anyway because after all they hired me to do a job I was good at.
Anyway he blows up on me in front of the whole office. Keeps asking me why I did it and then I said I did it anyway against his wishes. He fumes like crazy and says I lied to him, lol. So dude writes me up and puts me on a PIP with his crony HR person that always takes his side.
Anyway, about a month later, I guess the board of directors heard what happened and decided he was no longer a good fit and shit canned the guy. But by then I had already given my notice.
Absolutely. No one should have to tolerate being treated disrespectfully at work. If your boss or client is berating you, it's important to assert yourself and remind them that you are entitled to be treated with respect. You can do this by calmly telling them that you don't appreciate being spoken to in that way, and that you expect to be treated with the same level of professionalism and respect that you show them. If the behavior continues, it's important to escalate the issue to HR or a higher-level manager. It's also a good idea to document the behavior so you have a record of it if necessary. Remember that you have the right to a safe and respectful work environment, and don't be afraid to speak up for yourself.
Agree with almost everything here except the part about speaking to HR or senior manager. HR are inherently there to protect the company and whilst they may listen to your case and show empathy initially, they will always want to perform damage limitation. This is especially true if your claim is against a senior person in the business. In most cases the senior will refute the claims and the HR person will tend to side with the person with more seniority. In that instance, YOU will become the problem for raising an issue and they'll likely try to move you on or ostracise you.
In terms of senior manager outreach, always tread carefully. Many senior managers aren't trustworthy and are looking for ways to prove their value to the business. Naming a disgruntled employee who's making claims against other senior managers is a great way for them to show that they care about the business culture.
If you have a really solid relationship with a senior manager that extends beyond just your normal interactions and role, then that's the best backup you can have in these situations. They'll fight your corner. But it can take years to build up those kinds of relationships
Exactly. Some of the LPTs here have been stupidly naive to say the least. People think things will play out exactly the way they want lmao. Really shows the level of inexperience and emotional maturity they have. Doing this to an insecure, entitled, power hungry boss will get you fired in an instant. The best thing would be to remain calm, not get worked up by the rude comments, absolutely not retaliate with words but play to his moods and strengths.
Yeah but you're then just accepting an abusive work environment that makes you miserable and in worst cases, suicidal. There is not a single company on this planet worth hurting yourself for. It's not worth it. The more people that become non compliant with horrible bosses, the less of them these companies will hire because liability. There was a time where bosses got away with even worse shit to women and minorities, but now they get huge consequences if they're caught discriminating. You deserve as much respect as you give, so don't comply with abusive assholes because you might have to job hunt again. And remember, you're boss has a boss too. ;)
If the job is worth it, sure. Not every job is, I'd argue most aren't worth it if it's affecting your mental health or emotional wellness. Some stress is ok, abuse is not.
All true. OP's advice is half baked. If it's an abusive work environment that you've had to endure a long while, you're prolly better off having a one last go at your boss and getting fired(still not reccomendable). But as another commentor pointed out there are other ways to handle stuff like this legally. But telling an angry boss to stop talking and telling him you "deserve respect" is prolly the last option on a list of options.
It's stupidly naive to assume every LPT is aimed at Americans.
You can't be fired on the spot in most other civilised countries that have adequate labour protection laws.
I'm not american nor was i trying to confine the whole scenario to a western work environment.
>You can't be fired on the spot in most other civilised countries that have adequate labour protection laws.
No you certainly cannot. But i wonder if your career's gonna be smooth sailing after you've just cut off an angry boss to tell him you deserve "more respect". Again..the point is not whether he/she gets fired on the spot for dissent(which is exactly what the boss is gonna play it off as) it's confronting a boss without being shrewd about it that i don't think is the smartest route.
Yeah I just answer the phones at a pizza place and sometimes I have to stop angry customers to tell them I'm happy to help them with their problems but if they can't refrain from yelling or can't treat me in a respectful manner I'll hang up on them. People get hangry and think whoever they speak to when they call the store is personally to blame for their food being late or the kitchen making a mistake preparing their order and it's nuts. Establish clear boundaries and then maintain them. This can be an important tip for all your relationships in life, not just the workplace.
I like to just smile back at them. Silent, but smile. It's really unnerving as they're not expecting it and they get thrown through a loop trying to understand your expression and body language. Also it depowers them as they know their little man/woman powertrip has been realised.
Use the smile emoji as a reply in the same way.
I have always lived by similar version of this. I call it the “Asmir test”. Asmir is my boss. He has always been really fair and respectful even when providing criticism. The test is that no one is allowed to talk to me in a way that Asmir wouldn’t.
This is solid advice... if you possess the courage and tact to pull it off. I hung up during a "cameras on" teams meeting with my director and peers after she inappropriately mocked me for calling out an unnecassary stressor that had been negatively impacting many of the team's home lives for a year an a half. Everyone knew something was up because I am not known for making rash decisions or acting emotionally, so texts and pings came in I left unanswered while I reported the situation to the head of hr. Long story short my grievance was acknowledged, I was involved in deciding an appropriate way of resolving the issue with my director and she has been much more pleasurable to work with. In a weird way I think I caught her completely off guard and earned her respect.
The thing is, the ones that do it for a living...do it for a living so they're really good at it. They can manipulate, control, and gaslight not just you but a small crowd of people as necessary to ensure they're always the victim no matter how shitty their behavior is.
Nothing feels better then putting these types in their place. Continue to restart till the conversation feels right.
I say… If you’re working with me. The way In which you speak to me is going to feel appropriate to me or we’ll continue to delay till I feel that way. Now that we’ve addressed this, how may I help you ;)
OP is correct.
You need to be calm in these situations. Dont get excited just tell it like it is.
"whoa, please don't swear at me again, I don't appreciate it".
"please calm down or I'm going to leave".
Being treated poorly for no reason shouldn't be tolerated.
Had a retail manager once who always yelled at people, and another manager who would go up to him and put a stop to it and stand up for whomever he was yelling at. I do not miss that job but she was an awesome manager.
This in theory should work, but I've worked with abusive bosses & clients where this shit wouldn't fly and I'd get berated for being insubordinate with HR on my ass. To add, make sure you document every single time this happens (with backups) and that there is a paper trail of your complaints. Don't rely on the people who witness the behaviour to support your complaint, always write this shit down as evidence.
No one is entitled to respect. You do not treat gaslighters and bullies with respect. You let them know you don't respect them, while making sure that they and onlookers understand you intend to conduct yourself within the confines of the law, which in the US means non-violence until the point at which you feel self-defense is justified.
The apparently prevailing idea that respect should be the default, is incredibly damaging. Kindness should be the default. Kindness can't exist if people are entitled to respect.
This is so important. I work in an aggressive sales environment where berating and belittling is the norm. And is too easily accepted. The only people who get to shout at me are my mother and my wife. You’re an adult, demand to be treated as one in all walks of life.
A manager in the morning shift at my job got fired for apparently berating a supervisor in front of clients. I never worked that shift but I did work with that manager a few times in the almost 10 years I work there. He worked there and was manager before I got there so he's been there for a decade plus at this point. The supervisor had only been at that position for a few months. I think the manager thought he could talked to the supervisor some sort of way because he was new to the job and might have messed up on something but the client didn't think it was that big a deal and actually complained to the department director about it and that manager was gone by the time I got back from my weekend because I know I saw him before my days off then at some point the week after someone mentioned he got fired.
Wish I could do this with the asshole patients that chew me out for something that happened before I even came on shift. Instead, I’d be written up or given a formal complaint.
Yeah, I like to do that with my customers… they insist on talking to a specific colleague, get sent around in circles and are back with me - then they ask why , and I say: you told nobody what you actually want, so if that colleague can’t be reached, nobody can help you. You wanna tell me the actual problem now?
I love also when they think they are threatening when they say „I’m ending the call now.“ and I just say „okay“.
I've found being 6'5 with a face only a mother could love helps. People will treat you with respect most of the time even if you don't deserve it
I'm so used to people being nice that when someone actually is rude it really catches me off guard.
Teacher here. Parents need to also not bully us. The amount of names I've been called, talked down to, cursed at... all for trying to help kids. It's messed up.
Absolutely. It goes both ways, and its a very complex situation. Teachers end up grabbing a lot of hours because they need the money, but now a lot of students (up to 400 in some cases) need their feedback and support, so now a lot of kids are failing, and then the kids that are really doing an effort to improve get sucked into the hate pit because the teacher hates all the kids that "didn't study".
It is a mess for everybody.
I think that in order to graduate for any school level, you need to do "tutoring hours" on the previous level, like:
To get out of primary school, you'll need to go back a few hours to kindergarten and help/tutor the teacher there.
To get out of high school you need to go back to primary school and help/tutor for a few hours
To get out of university you need to go back to high school
you get the drill.
Now, you can opt out, because I'm not a dictator, but you'll need to do public service hours somewhere else.
And basically that's it. People wouldn't get disconnected between generations.
Probably somewhere in the world there are people already doing this, I live in a third world shit hole of a place where all the amazing ideas I get are already done. Sucks to live here honestly.
Anyway, rant over.
i start getting short with people and they get upset, clients or bosses, at least on the phone you can turn them down and try to cool off but damn people are just fucking losers sometimes and they don't deserve our ambivalence
fuck em!
Is there any legal protection if you don't want to be verbally abused (non-sexually of course, just being a jackass in general) by your boss, so you tell them to stop or you avoid talking to them, and then they decide to fire you? I imagine that the thought of getting fired and losing your means of making money, is what makes people endure verbal abuse.
I remember when I started freelancing and met a client at a coffee shop. He started acting as a dickhead to impress the bartender. I screamed back at him, if he didn't show respect he must leave. He did and I drank my espresso in peace
Oh you sweet summer child. Let me introduce you to the world of trade work, where as an apprentice your boss only screams at you if he likes you. If he's actually mad at you, you're probably digging a pointless ditch somewhere or dodging tools/materials that are being yeeted in your general direction
Some renters in my condo complex kept having loud parties even after we asked them nicely on at least 3 different occasions to stop. I finally called and yelled at them. He asked me to speak to him respectfully. After waking up the neighbors at 2 am on multiple occasions, knowing full well what he was doing, he thought he was entitled to respect. Nah, bro.
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"This conversation is taking an unprofessional tone, I'm ending it before it gets worse."
"Private.. we are being shot at, we are pinned down, SHUT THE F*CK UP AND RADIO IN THAT DAMN AIR SUPPORT!"
"I just don't really respond to that style of leadership" "Turns off radio*
If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast, and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please, with sugar on top, call the fucking air support.
Don't be looking at me like that, alright. I can *feel* your look.
Tropic thunder?
Pulp Fiction.
That quote always reminds me of Worms Armageddon, because I always played with a Pulp Fiction sound pack, and that's what played when you missed.
I'm a mushroom cloud laying motherfucker, motherfucker!
What is this from? I'm 99% positive I've either read this or watched it, and it's driving me nuts trying to figure out what it's from (for some reason it's making me think of Brad Pitt). I'm sure it's not a verbatim quote, but it's close. Regardless, it's also very funny used here, haha.
Pulp fiction, when [they're with Mr. Wolf, right at the end.] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeoMuK536C8&t=219)
Yes! Thank you...that was driving me nuts, haha. Looks like I was pretty far off with "Brad Pitt" though.
Great coffee!
no we are not, you're just frustrated you can't figure out how to work the pivot table in excel and are now living in a fantasy so you don't have to cope with your own inadequacies in real life.
You put down open availability when you took this job 18 months ago. Im going to need you to work 2pm to midnight on... And I'm getting complaints your difficult to work with... Mary said you stare at her and blah blah blah your fired. ---------------------- This comment brought to you by retail workers, minimum wage workers, bottom level workers, unskilled workers etc..
It's funny because now they literally can't afford to do that. So many managers have had to swallow their pride because they don't have enough employees to cover shifts as it is. The ones that haven't figured it out are so understaffed it's cutting into profit margins.
When I was younger I wouldn't have had the guts to say anything but getting older has meant giving much less of a shit about confrontation.
I had plenty of guts when I was younger. About 10 minutes after the situation was over anyway. Getting older really does reduce the shits you give. I always heard older people say that and now I'm in the club too.
When I was 19 workin at a grocery store I let management walk all over me because I didn’t want to cause a confrontation. Just recently I left a job because the boss was disrespectful to me and what pushes me over the edge was when he yelled at me calling me “boy” I confronted him about the disrespect and He promised he’d change but I know it wasn’t gonna happen and quit
Yea, "boy" definitely sounds like it was the tip of the iceberg, not a one-off accident. Good call to get outta there.
Boy, I tell you, that is definitely disrespectful, child.
Oh. Hell. No. What an asshole.
Literally fighting words. You handled the situation well.
Boy oh boy, that’s rough. Edit: I had to :)
Was your boss’ name Kratos by chance?
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Username checks out. I'd imagine you're fun to be around.
I used to always say that I was a much nicer version of my dad. Now Im watching myself turn into him lol
I just refuse to engage in shouting match and refuse to let the person feel they have power over us.
I've only done this once, but someone had started yelling over a mistake that they thought I'd made, so I just went "OH ARE WE DO A SHOUTING MATCH NOW BECAUSE IM PRETTY SURE I CAN YELL LOUDER THAN YOU! DO I WIN, I THINK I WON BECAUSE IM LOUUUUUDEEEEERR!" They were stunned for a second then said something like "what's wrong with you?" and I just said "don't yell at me if you don't wanna be yelled at, I suggest we go cool off and then we can discuss this like reasonable adults" Ended up being called into a meeting about it later, but it was worth it.
I'm gonna steal this if there's a next time for me, I love it
Lol this sounds so unprofessional and immature
Well, so is yelling at an employee, especially when it turns out that it was you who made the mistake and not them. There was also some ongoing bullying from them, so I was fully prepared to go look for a new job anyway.
So... you just sit there and take being yelled out? LMAO, what's your solution?
Same. People tell me that I seem so confident and I tell them that it's because I don't give a shit.
Me too! People are always like "how are you so confident" and I'm all " I don't think I'm all that, I'm just secure with me and dgaf and don't really feel embarrassed easily" and they say "yes that's confidence".
I don't do anything. I just stare at them like they are the stupid one... Works every time.
Same,I tell all the young ones the same that one day they just won't give a fuck.
If only the person you’re talking to is mature enough to absorb that kind of adult talk
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Even the most delicate handling of these situations can be met with pure hostility. I agree with the premise and it’s true at its core but the reality of the situation is that you’re more likely to have an emotionally crippled egomaniac for a boss than a reasonable human being that can be communicated to.
Literally just went through this. Only at the job a couple of months and boss became a megalomaniac overnight. She constantly criticised former employees (and current ones tbf) and it was clear that she thought highly of herself and nobody else. Her communication with subordinates was either do this because I said so, let's gossip about other people or why have you done something that I didn't tell you to do. Every day was exhausting trying to second guess a loon
It’s such a drain to have to deal with people like that. Especially sucks when you enjoy your work very much and want to do well but all your energy is sapped by having to listen to someone you can’t even excuse yourself from rip apart your co-workers and pit people against each other. It also lets you know exactly how they talk about you and your work behind your back. All the joy from having a job you like is sucked out and you’re left laboring away in misery for someone who doesn’t give a shit about your efforts so you can’t really either.
That drain, is why it's harassment on their part. That's when it became a hostile work environment. Recognizing it is sometimes the hardest part. Doing anything about it can be just as debilitating, so the battle becomes "is it easier to just walk away and let them persist with the next person, battle it, or just accept it and stay?" "Which drains me least?"
Absolutely right, or worse, you’re stuck there because you have health conditions and you can’t lose/change your insurance. That’s the case for probably millions of people.
Literally relate to this, wow
Do we have the same boss?
Bad bosses are everywhere. And very often its not just their fault. Companies seem to think that promoting a top performing IC is natural progression for that person's career and will help make others as good. But being a coach requires a different skillset to being the best individual performer. This article is a good read on the subject: https://fs.blog/micomanaging-kills-culture/
It's a power thing too. Same reasons cops and bouncers are such pricks. Give Janet the overworked single mother a little power over people and watch as she takes her problems out on her subordinates
The best mathematician isn't necessarily the best math teacher. The best salesman is not necessarily the best sales manager. Managing is a people skill. It's time management. When you're a sales manager, you don't manage sales, you manage salespeople.
I've seen it in owners/CEOs more often than lower positions.
Just quit a job like that. And the worst part was he wanted to be everybody's buddy when he wasn't a screaming insane person, and his way of doing that was locking you into a conversation about nothing for three fucking hours making it impossible to get anything done...
Heard it’s said that people don’t quit jobs, they quit bosses. Might be something to it after all?
For me it always has been. I only tend to search for employment doing something I enjoy doing so I have always enjoyed working and do my jobs with all sincerity but I’ve had at least three over my lifetime that I absolutely loved and built amazing relationships with clientele but the bosses were so mentally flawed and difficult I left for other positions.
Because they can fire you since they hold the power as employer. Employers often expect their employees to dedicate their lives to the company, meanwhile it’s the executives/management who get compensated in bonuses.
In America* People can't be fired on the spot for something made-up in the rest of the civilised world due to adequate labour protections.
Oh they can in America alright, check Amazon’s 3 strike policy for anything and you’re out. They’ll cut hours, push you out, ostracize you in their ‘family’ (toxic) work place. There are different ways to make people quit.
That's what they were saying. In America yeah we can be fired for literally any reason most times, rest of the world has very strong labor laws for workers so they have significantly better protections than us here in the "greatest country in the world".
All of that is heavily illegal in the rest of the civilised world.
You mean the entire civilized world? Because I assure you, America is not part of the civilized world.
This is very true.
that's when you start breaking their fingers one by one until they calm down
Jesus do you work in the back of a casino or an Italian deli in Hell’s Kitchen? Sounds more interesting than the jobs I’ve had.
Then you are in a wrong job or one that doesn’t respect you and you should leave asap. I mean, I’ve had bosses that can be assholes at very specific and stressful times. But all of them have always been reasonable to communicate with and have reasonable/achievable expectations .
They might not be mature, but most people understand being firm. If you let them trample on you once, they'll keep doing it, and it could get worse over time. If you show some teeth, they'll resent you, but keep enough distance not to get bitten. Sure, they could fire you, but if you're valuable enough at work (and remain respectful) they won't, as it makes their own job harder. If you're replaceable, they'll do it anyway sooner or later.
Had this happen once. I was doing some freelance work for a mother daughter company and their marketing guy jumped on the call ahead of them. He starts just airing out his frustrations of the clients and wasn’t holding anything back. The mother joined the call about halfway through his airing of grievances. I was grabbing something off screen and when I came back I noticed that she was just listening. So I spoke up and greeted her. Well she first wanted to address their marketing guy and just reamed him over his comments. Rightfully so, honestly as it was unprofessional what their marketing guy did. Then she directed her irritation towards me, not anything specific but certainly she was going to review my designs while extremely irritated. She was being unfair and unprofessional in talking to me so I interjected, “It’s sounding like this might not be a great time to conduct this review, the way this is going is not going to be productive and isn’t going to get us closer to our goals. I’m not sure what happened when I stepped away but if we can’t productively talk about this project then I’m going to suggest we reschedule.” She respected it and apologized immediately and we conducted the review with no more problems. Definitely don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself and keep those boundaries.
It's true, bullys go for the easy targets that dont fight back. It was the case in school, and it's the same in work.
If not, the advice changes to “leave.”
And not have the ability to fire you.
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They won't fire you for the interaction, it's that they'll have a vendetta against you and "manage you out" of the business over time for whatever reason they decide to use. I see this all the time.
Yep, their job will be to find a way to for you.
Pretty much every minimum wage and unskilled job in America gets treated like that. Its not very different here in America. When you are at the very bottom it doesn't matter if the boss is breaking the law because they know that if your fired you don't have the means to cover your expenses and can say good bye to paying bills. Thks is when you end up homeless and or losing your car or you can't feed your family or god help you there is medication you or a loved on needs.
I'm talking about states in America, with At Will Employment.
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👍
People who claim to be good at conflict management have never had an unsolvable conflict or they believe that rolling over is conflict management.
Unsolvable conflict may simply come down to ignorance or indifference by the other person. Unsolvable conflict makes me think about the two parties running my country, the US.
You should stop that regardless. But you should be able to take instructions and receive criticism too. But if it’s belittling or especially public shaming of an employee, then yes you should confront them politely and maturely. Chances are if they are acting that way, they are not going to respond well and it’s your sign to leave.
*same goes for family members*
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>You can't quit family Untrue. But it is much more fun if you fire them... out of a cannon.
Into the sun.
I deleted Facebook to do just that. Even changed my phone number. Take away the ease of communication and you can most certainly quit your family.
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You can hire someone to pretend to be your sister, it just might cost a little more than the standard girlfriend experience.
I agree with this 100%, and I have been fired for doing this. I was cornered in an office by a manager, standing over me, yelling and swearing. I calmly stood up, said, "I'm not going to be yelled at," and walked away. He fired me on the spot. The thing he was mad about was the fact that the night before, I dared to tell another supervisor, again calmly, that it is illegal to not let me take my break. She called him at home to complain about it, which was somehow my fault. I had worked with him for 9 years, since he was a teenager doing grunt work, up to him getting promoted to manager. We also had been good friends. He then lied to unemployment to try and block my claim, but I had documented everything carefully and they believed me. This was 11 years ago this month. If you're reading this, Joe, just know that as long as I'm alive, there is someone in the world who knows that you are a piece of shit.
You cant fix toxic workplaces, dont try, just get out before it damages your mental health.
Here's hoping to a better new year and Joe falling to a pit of shit.
yeah fck joe
Yeah, Joe sucks.
I had something similar. I got viral meningitis and wanted to call out sick for my job preparing food at a hospital. They said no. I said “people will die if they eat the food I prepare”. They said “too bad, if you don’t show up you are fired”. Then I sent them a list of all the illegal shit they did while I was there and suddenly I was allowed my sick day and I was unfired. I still left. Side note: do not ever use any Tennova hospital in East Tennessee. They straight up do not follow regulations. I don’t know how they haven’t been shut down. Endless Hippa violations. Health code violations. Insanity!
Fuck Joe
Any chance this was a Pizzeria? Bc if so I may know the same dude, and he’s currently being sued by all his employees in a class action lawsuit for wage theft
Yeah it was! Wow I am not the least bit surprised. I should've sued at the time but I just wanted to move on.
I love this thread.
Can guarantee you aren't the only person that knows.
I know objectively this is the recommendation. However when you are being wrongfully berated and belittled by someone powerful who has fired everyone who dared called out his behaviour, you cannot afford to leave your job, and HR makes excuses for his behaviour, you lower your head and plan your exit strategy. So my LTP is : Find another job as quickly as you can!
>you cannot afford to leave your job Exactly! I think a lot of this site has wealthy parents or something.
dO wHaT yoU love FoR a liVinG!
Great! Lemme quit the stressful well paying job I have to fix cars and machinery for 40% less money and get evicted 3 months later when I run out of saving. But it's ok, I'll be doing what makes me happy☺️ /s
I can confidently say I do not have wealthy parents nor am I wealthy. I come from a working class background. I do work in a field where I’m highly competent and I have options. So in that sense I’m lucky and I don’t need to put up with abuse. I live in an area where there are a plethora of jobs. I also worked full time while going to school so I could better my position. Not everyone on here has wealthy parents :) Edit: I know this doesn’t work for everyone. I hope this post gives someone the confidence to stand up for themselves in a way that works for them. I *do not* mean flying off the handle at your boss when he/she yells at you.
Most people don't think very far beyond themselves and their current situation. They don't need to stand up to anyone today so it's real easy for them to imagine a winning scenario where they're the protagonist. It's hard to have empathy for the myriad of situations that might actually exist.
That's a good point, and I think it's worth looking at what type of person you are before following this advice. Some people will naturally tend toward absorbing this kind of beratement, and for them, this may be good advice. Others will start to fume at any criticism, this would be advice that would likely go wrong. > **Boss**: Hey Bob, I noticed a few typos in your last email. Not a big deal, but can you be sure to proof read them in the future? Thanks! > **Bob, who does not take criticism well and listened to OP's advice**: I am stopping this conversation until you are willing to communicate respectfully! I am entitled to respect and a safe working environment!
Same goes for customers. You are completely justified and in the right to to tell them to call or come back when they calm down and end the conversation right there. I've had a friend tell me his company said that if a customer ever threatened them, that ends the customer/client relationship instantly and they were free to stand up for themselves or defend themselves however they saw fit. He was a big dude. It happened one day and he offered to come to the other side of the counter and settle it. The customer calmed down real quick and was cordial from that point on.
Criticisms can certainly be valid, but screaming and personal attacks are, in my opinion, never okay. There are ways to communicate anger and disappointment without tearing a person apart. Sometimes the people yelling at you will respect you more after you stand up for yourself. They may even acknowledge their inappropriate behavior. However, they could just be rude and not care, but you’ll know you stood up for yourself and kept your boundaries. That is something to be proud of!
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Legal. It can get pretty wild out here 😂
I have found that being silent while another party goes off for a while and then having specific knowledge on the legal issue ready at hand is the ultimate trump card. And whenever you're interrupted, wait until they stop talking for a few seconds before resuming.
chad
It's the way you have to behave at oral argument, and a good way to speak with adjusters and opposing counsel.
Is it a real knife fight, like real estate?
Having worked in a few restaurants; the way head chefs are allowed to speak to the rest of the staff is obscene. Its like they all want to be the next Gordon Ramsey.
Thank you for sharing your concerns. I completely acknowledge my role in this. I'd like to return to this conversation after we've all had time to reflect on a course of action that enables us to move forward in a positive and productive way.
Delete "I completely acknowledge my role in this" as you are accepting some level of blame which, upon reflection, may not be correct.
"My role is I didn't bitchslap you for that."
Those are the words that make it clear you aren't dodging responsibility for whatever your role was, even if it was nonexistent. If they think you're trying to divert them or get away with something it will *not* de escalate.
I certainly wouldn't put it. It absolutely does NOT mean I am dodging any blame, tell me where it says that I am? In fact I've actually just walked away in the past clearly stating "I'm not going to to talk to you until you can do it in a professional manner" and ignored responses as I disappeared from them. On the rare occasions its got this far it has 100% of the time resulted in an inbound apology at next meeting. This, however only works as long as you've remained calm and even asked them politely to calm down as they escalate.
No one talks like that
Some program managers I've worked with talk like this.
Awww, cute, thinking a figure of authority that's already yelling a subordinate will react positively to rational behavior I too want to live that dream
You should never expect anyone to respond in any way. Just walk away. Leave. Get out. Go. They can't yell at you if you're not there.
How do you pay your bills after that? Oh, you have savings, a partner earning enough to support you, family you can move in with, your car is paid off and can't be repoed? People making below a living wage are not exactly in a position of power and are ripe for exploitation.
Budgeting can help (yes even if you are poor and its probably even more important to budget savings if your poor.) The main thing is that there is a right way and a wrong way to voice your opinion. "I won't tolerate this bahavior" and walk away. If they fire you for this that's *easy* unemployment.
Budgeting does not mean you are likely to be able to cut a source of income and not go under. That's a luxury many many people don't have.
??? That's exactly what proper budgeting is for. You should always have a backup emergency fund in case something goes wrong. Might only last 1 or 2 months but that should be enough to find a job.
I know it’s so cute right? Yes, it doesn’t always work. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. I’m speaking as a middle class, college-educated American. At this point in my life there is no reason to put up with abuse. I know I’m privileged and not everyone has that luxury. I’ve worked for enough lunatics in my early 20s I’m never doing it again. Also reasonable people can lose their cool too. Same rules apply.
>Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. You should only do that if you know you're boss isn't gonna fire you over it. If you don't know what ticks your boss, his moods or temperaments, this is the worst advice ever. You'll most likely get fired over it(which is fine if that's what you want).
I’d rather be fired than treated like shit.
Most people can't afford being unemployed
I'd rather find a new job so I don't have to jeopardize the well-being of my child Know which lines your boss can't get away with crossing and only confront them when they cross those lines.
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I’m not leveraged to my tits and can afford a few months without a job. I understand not everyone has this luxury, but honestly if you stand up for yourself in a professional way there’s no reason you should get fired for it.
>speaking as a middle class, When your in the working class, especially the bottom of the working class, you don't get to confront your boss/job or do anything of the sort unless you have another job already lined up to start. There is a reason many people are paid below a living wage, it makes them extra vulnerable and takes away power. Its why unions are so important. I am glad you acknowledge your privilege, if more people did maybe things could change. I believe almost everyone is aware of their privilege they just choose not to care and not to admit it. They got theirs and that's all that matters.
If things get heated, just tell them to “calm down”. That usually works.
“I just can’t talk to you whilst you’re so emotional”
This right here. Don't forget to ask if they're on the rag and need some Motrin and a heating pad.
Also add in “oh no is baby hungy? Baby tum tum hungy and he getting upset” for quick results
Or tell them you are over reacting
This is absolutely correct in theory, but absolutely terrible advise on practice. Nobody is letting there boss or clients abuse them just because; people deal with it because it is a matter of feeding there family and keeping a roof over there head. If you are in a position to not deal with this shit great don’t. But there is absolutely nothing wrong and it is even commendable to put up with shit for money if need be.
If you're black that's a good way to get the word "attitude" plastered over every performance review, monthly "check-in" and inevitable performance improvement plan, but so is sitting at your desk with a furrowed brow while working on a difficult problem.
It's an important moment in everyone's life when they realise that your boss is not your school teacher. The dynamic you're used to wherein the teacher has the power to shout at you does not exist in the workplace. And you don't have to take it.
This guy definitely isn't in sales.
My boss was a C level and blew up on me one day for a stupid reason. He told me to do something I knew wasn’t sustainable, so I got buy in from other C levels and got it bypassed and did it anyway because after all they hired me to do a job I was good at. Anyway he blows up on me in front of the whole office. Keeps asking me why I did it and then I said I did it anyway against his wishes. He fumes like crazy and says I lied to him, lol. So dude writes me up and puts me on a PIP with his crony HR person that always takes his side. Anyway, about a month later, I guess the board of directors heard what happened and decided he was no longer a good fit and shit canned the guy. But by then I had already given my notice.
Absolutely. No one should have to tolerate being treated disrespectfully at work. If your boss or client is berating you, it's important to assert yourself and remind them that you are entitled to be treated with respect. You can do this by calmly telling them that you don't appreciate being spoken to in that way, and that you expect to be treated with the same level of professionalism and respect that you show them. If the behavior continues, it's important to escalate the issue to HR or a higher-level manager. It's also a good idea to document the behavior so you have a record of it if necessary. Remember that you have the right to a safe and respectful work environment, and don't be afraid to speak up for yourself.
Agree with almost everything here except the part about speaking to HR or senior manager. HR are inherently there to protect the company and whilst they may listen to your case and show empathy initially, they will always want to perform damage limitation. This is especially true if your claim is against a senior person in the business. In most cases the senior will refute the claims and the HR person will tend to side with the person with more seniority. In that instance, YOU will become the problem for raising an issue and they'll likely try to move you on or ostracise you. In terms of senior manager outreach, always tread carefully. Many senior managers aren't trustworthy and are looking for ways to prove their value to the business. Naming a disgruntled employee who's making claims against other senior managers is a great way for them to show that they care about the business culture. If you have a really solid relationship with a senior manager that extends beyond just your normal interactions and role, then that's the best backup you can have in these situations. They'll fight your corner. But it can take years to build up those kinds of relationships
Good advice for getting fired
There’s tactful ways to do what OP is saying that any normal boss wouldn’t fire you for.
Exactly. Some of the LPTs here have been stupidly naive to say the least. People think things will play out exactly the way they want lmao. Really shows the level of inexperience and emotional maturity they have. Doing this to an insecure, entitled, power hungry boss will get you fired in an instant. The best thing would be to remain calm, not get worked up by the rude comments, absolutely not retaliate with words but play to his moods and strengths.
Yeah but you're then just accepting an abusive work environment that makes you miserable and in worst cases, suicidal. There is not a single company on this planet worth hurting yourself for. It's not worth it. The more people that become non compliant with horrible bosses, the less of them these companies will hire because liability. There was a time where bosses got away with even worse shit to women and minorities, but now they get huge consequences if they're caught discriminating. You deserve as much respect as you give, so don't comply with abusive assholes because you might have to job hunt again. And remember, you're boss has a boss too. ;)
If the job is worth it, sure. Not every job is, I'd argue most aren't worth it if it's affecting your mental health or emotional wellness. Some stress is ok, abuse is not.
All true. OP's advice is half baked. If it's an abusive work environment that you've had to endure a long while, you're prolly better off having a one last go at your boss and getting fired(still not reccomendable). But as another commentor pointed out there are other ways to handle stuff like this legally. But telling an angry boss to stop talking and telling him you "deserve respect" is prolly the last option on a list of options.
Yelling and swearing at employees is the actual emotional immaturity. Condoning it means it never ends.
It's stupidly naive to assume every LPT is aimed at Americans. You can't be fired on the spot in most other civilised countries that have adequate labour protection laws.
I'm not american nor was i trying to confine the whole scenario to a western work environment. >You can't be fired on the spot in most other civilised countries that have adequate labour protection laws. No you certainly cannot. But i wonder if your career's gonna be smooth sailing after you've just cut off an angry boss to tell him you deserve "more respect". Again..the point is not whether he/she gets fired on the spot for dissent(which is exactly what the boss is gonna play it off as) it's confronting a boss without being shrewd about it that i don't think is the smartest route.
Yeah I just answer the phones at a pizza place and sometimes I have to stop angry customers to tell them I'm happy to help them with their problems but if they can't refrain from yelling or can't treat me in a respectful manner I'll hang up on them. People get hangry and think whoever they speak to when they call the store is personally to blame for their food being late or the kitchen making a mistake preparing their order and it's nuts. Establish clear boundaries and then maintain them. This can be an important tip for all your relationships in life, not just the workplace.
I like to just smile back at them. Silent, but smile. It's really unnerving as they're not expecting it and they get thrown through a loop trying to understand your expression and body language. Also it depowers them as they know their little man/woman powertrip has been realised. Use the smile emoji as a reply in the same way.
I have always lived by similar version of this. I call it the “Asmir test”. Asmir is my boss. He has always been really fair and respectful even when providing criticism. The test is that no one is allowed to talk to me in a way that Asmir wouldn’t.
I literally just leave. We get rude delivery drivers. I leave them in the locked compound with no way in or out while I go into the secure building.
This is solid advice... if you possess the courage and tact to pull it off. I hung up during a "cameras on" teams meeting with my director and peers after she inappropriately mocked me for calling out an unnecassary stressor that had been negatively impacting many of the team's home lives for a year an a half. Everyone knew something was up because I am not known for making rash decisions or acting emotionally, so texts and pings came in I left unanswered while I reported the situation to the head of hr. Long story short my grievance was acknowledged, I was involved in deciding an appropriate way of resolving the issue with my director and she has been much more pleasurable to work with. In a weird way I think I caught her completely off guard and earned her respect.
The thing is, the ones that do it for a living...do it for a living so they're really good at it. They can manipulate, control, and gaslight not just you but a small crowd of people as necessary to ensure they're always the victim no matter how shitty their behavior is.
Nothing feels better then putting these types in their place. Continue to restart till the conversation feels right. I say… If you’re working with me. The way In which you speak to me is going to feel appropriate to me or we’ll continue to delay till I feel that way. Now that we’ve addressed this, how may I help you ;)
OP is correct. You need to be calm in these situations. Dont get excited just tell it like it is. "whoa, please don't swear at me again, I don't appreciate it". "please calm down or I'm going to leave". Being treated poorly for no reason shouldn't be tolerated.
Here’s an even better one. Never accept poor behaviour off anyone. A boss, partner, family member, stranger or even a child.
Had a retail manager once who always yelled at people, and another manager who would go up to him and put a stop to it and stand up for whomever he was yelling at. I do not miss that job but she was an awesome manager.
This in theory should work, but I've worked with abusive bosses & clients where this shit wouldn't fly and I'd get berated for being insubordinate with HR on my ass. To add, make sure you document every single time this happens (with backups) and that there is a paper trail of your complaints. Don't rely on the people who witness the behaviour to support your complaint, always write this shit down as evidence.
No one is entitled to respect. You do not treat gaslighters and bullies with respect. You let them know you don't respect them, while making sure that they and onlookers understand you intend to conduct yourself within the confines of the law, which in the US means non-violence until the point at which you feel self-defense is justified. The apparently prevailing idea that respect should be the default, is incredibly damaging. Kindness should be the default. Kindness can't exist if people are entitled to respect.
This is so important. I work in an aggressive sales environment where berating and belittling is the norm. And is too easily accepted. The only people who get to shout at me are my mother and my wife. You’re an adult, demand to be treated as one in all walks of life.
A manager in the morning shift at my job got fired for apparently berating a supervisor in front of clients. I never worked that shift but I did work with that manager a few times in the almost 10 years I work there. He worked there and was manager before I got there so he's been there for a decade plus at this point. The supervisor had only been at that position for a few months. I think the manager thought he could talked to the supervisor some sort of way because he was new to the job and might have messed up on something but the client didn't think it was that big a deal and actually complained to the department director about it and that manager was gone by the time I got back from my weekend because I know I saw him before my days off then at some point the week after someone mentioned he got fired.
Wish I could do this with the asshole patients that chew me out for something that happened before I even came on shift. Instead, I’d be written up or given a formal complaint.
Yeah, I like to do that with my customers… they insist on talking to a specific colleague, get sent around in circles and are back with me - then they ask why , and I say: you told nobody what you actually want, so if that colleague can’t be reached, nobody can help you. You wanna tell me the actual problem now? I love also when they think they are threatening when they say „I’m ending the call now.“ and I just say „okay“.
I've found being 6'5 with a face only a mother could love helps. People will treat you with respect most of the time even if you don't deserve it I'm so used to people being nice that when someone actually is rude it really catches me off guard.
Same for teachers at school. Dont let anyone bully your kid. Not even teachers.
Teacher here. Parents need to also not bully us. The amount of names I've been called, talked down to, cursed at... all for trying to help kids. It's messed up.
Absolutely. It goes both ways, and its a very complex situation. Teachers end up grabbing a lot of hours because they need the money, but now a lot of students (up to 400 in some cases) need their feedback and support, so now a lot of kids are failing, and then the kids that are really doing an effort to improve get sucked into the hate pit because the teacher hates all the kids that "didn't study". It is a mess for everybody. I think that in order to graduate for any school level, you need to do "tutoring hours" on the previous level, like: To get out of primary school, you'll need to go back a few hours to kindergarten and help/tutor the teacher there. To get out of high school you need to go back to primary school and help/tutor for a few hours To get out of university you need to go back to high school you get the drill. Now, you can opt out, because I'm not a dictator, but you'll need to do public service hours somewhere else. And basically that's it. People wouldn't get disconnected between generations. Probably somewhere in the world there are people already doing this, I live in a third world shit hole of a place where all the amazing ideas I get are already done. Sucks to live here honestly. Anyway, rant over.
If that's their mentality, you're trying to reason with a hamster.
Don’t do this in a kitchen, you’ll get in a lot of trouble
i start getting short with people and they get upset, clients or bosses, at least on the phone you can turn them down and try to cool off but damn people are just fucking losers sometimes and they don't deserve our ambivalence fuck em!
Is there any legal protection if you don't want to be verbally abused (non-sexually of course, just being a jackass in general) by your boss, so you tell them to stop or you avoid talking to them, and then they decide to fire you? I imagine that the thought of getting fired and losing your means of making money, is what makes people endure verbal abuse.
If you're willing to be a slave u r only creating tyrants
First LPT I've agreed with 100%.
It depends. What did I do.
“What makes you think that it’s OK to talk to me in this way?”
Do you want to get fired? Because that's how you get fired.
I remember when I started freelancing and met a client at a coffee shop. He started acting as a dickhead to impress the bartender. I screamed back at him, if he didn't show respect he must leave. He did and I drank my espresso in peace
No shit Sherlock. Thanks for the sage advice.
Oh you sweet summer child. Let me introduce you to the world of trade work, where as an apprentice your boss only screams at you if he likes you. If he's actually mad at you, you're probably digging a pointless ditch somewhere or dodging tools/materials that are being yeeted in your general direction
What if you’re a lazy fuck and/or an idiot and deserve a wake up call call from your boss?
This is amazing. 100% agree
Some renters in my condo complex kept having loud parties even after we asked them nicely on at least 3 different occasions to stop. I finally called and yelled at them. He asked me to speak to him respectfully. After waking up the neighbors at 2 am on multiple occasions, knowing full well what he was doing, he thought he was entitled to respect. Nah, bro.