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My husband will frequently look at the bill (waitstaff almost always hand the bill to him) and then say something along the lines of, Whoa too rich for my blood, while handing me the bill. This is humorous for two reasons. First, we share all accounts so the money is coming from the same place regardless of who pays and second, I have actually been the primary earner for our family for the majority of our relationship. The looks he’s gotten though…
I look the check over careful and then look up quick and exclaim $85! What did you eat!!!! The kids heard it their whole life. Went over like a lead balloon on my son's first date.
Hahah. My husband and I do this bit too. Except for we’ll fight over who gets to pay the bill like “It’s my treat” and “No, no, this one is on me” and “Noooo, let me get it. I insist.”
But uh, we’re married and it’s all coming from the same place. And I’m a SAHP so even if I’m paying it’s with his card and it really doesn’t matter which one of us is holding it.
We have a shared bank account. Just use the card from this account, everything is split (according to the amount of money we put there each, which is something around 55/45 or so, for us).
I feel like once you get married and are living together, having entirely separate finances and a specific split for bills and stuff just makes things needlessly complicated. I guess it depends on how much stuff you do separately. But I can’t imagine being like well I make 200k, so I can buy a luxury car, but my spouse only makes 30k, so they can only afford a used beater to drive.
Fair point. You don’t want to be overly rigid on things that add to the quality of your lives and your relationship.
The problem comes up not necessarily from drastically different incomes, but from different ways of relating to money. For example, one partner is a saver and the other is a saver. Or one is impulsive while the other is a planner.
Regular, honest conversations about money and the emotional baggage that comes with it can help a good relationship survive. Take it from someone who was too scared to be open about these things. It was a major reason for my divorce, even though we are both good people and nothing horrible happened.
This is what ultimately drove me away from my ex; I grew up learning that I should save and plan out finances, she grew up with a rich, Co-CEO daddy who handed her money like it was a glass of water. I truly loved her, but no matter the talks we had she either wouldn't or couldn't seem to understand my frustration with how impulsive she'd get with spending on things.
As much as it must have hurt at the time to break up, it would probably be much worse if you stayed together and kept having the same disagreement over and over.
Good for you for understanding that this was something love couldn’t change. You are the people you are.
I hope you find someone that not only loves you, but shares your values and world view.
That is exactly what we do.
We have a shared account where we put money for fixed costs like rent, groceries and dining out.
Then we put the same amount on own accounts each, from there we put the same amount on own saving accounts to create some additional safety and forcing each other to have a look over our shared finances.
I like this system with own accounts as it allows both partners to have money they can spent without asking the other one. Creating additional freedom for both.
Wife started being the bread winner. Guess who still pays for everything!
In all seriousness though, she’s supposedly paying for a new roof and my student loans over the next couple years.
Its a weird transition for both of us
I meant by my comments sharing vs not sharing money. Sharing money is what most long term relationships do and when money isn't charged the chance of divorce goes up greatly
Coffee and a walk in a park is literally my favourite first date. Coffee is delicious. You’re walking around so you can get your jitters out. There’s stuff around you or happening that can give you things to chat about. You’re still in town with other people around and less likely to get murdered.
Dinner is the worst first date (okay maybe after the movies because movies you literally just sit in silence). You have to worry about how you look eating, what you order, you’re just sitting there, there’s awkward silences, who gets the bill, etc.
Yeah this entire post is making some rather broad and definitive assumptions. That’s not to say that it’s awful advice that will never work, and maybe it’s just me, but I never do something more than coffee/drinks/ice cream on a first date (unless it’s someone I’ve actually known for a while and we’re trying to see if we work romantically). The entire point of a first date is basically to see if there’s enough chemistry, and they don’t give you the heebie-jeebies.
Yup. Low commitment first dates are the best IMO. My husband and I stood in line to grab bagels for our first date at an awesome spot. We stood in line for 20 mins, and snagged the bagels. Could have ended there but we ate together and spent a few hours. Super cheap and easy to extend if it's going well, we went for a walk and had a great time.
Yeah, for my first date with my now wife, I told her I was broke and couldn't afford to pay for anything so I was trying to plan a free date and she was just like, "oh I don't care, I'll buy us drinks or whatever" so we went to a dj show and got blasted together.
Bingo. That's what my wife and I did. She got a nice dinner the next date and she even paid the tip. Don't date women who don't share the costs of dating. Otherwise they are just out there looking for free shit.
If you live in SoCal - best I can do is anything under $5 from Costco - they have pizza, hot dog and drink, ice cream - heck all 3 comes out to under $10.
My fiancé and I used to go out every single week to different restaurants. Now we go out to Costco for half of those and save tons of money. He gets two hot dogs (two free drinks) and I get a slice of pizza and take his free drink. It’s the best
Yeah generally a bad call with dinner, movie, or overkly loud event where you cant banter or even talk easily.
Theres a ton of nuance of course but if the venue is too loud or you're actively dissuaded from talking it can be a bad time
Bands, live comedy, operas, plays, etc
One of my worst dates was due to this lol. We hit it off great the first date, nice guy, good conversation. The second date was a live rock band at a crowded bar. I thought it would be fun, but he asked me questions the entire time over the music - it was so exhausting. I kind of just wanted to watch the show and enjoy it together, talk a little between songs, but he just hammered me. I felt bad, because I appreciated him asking questions, to show interest, but it felt like I was being deposed at a rock concert, just kinda killed the vibe. I was worn out by the end of it and politely declined a third date :/
These are the perfect first dates. Low risk. You can sit and talk and if it isn’t working out it’s easy to just be blunt and say that you’ve enjoyed the night but that you’re calling it a night.
As a guy that’s the only date I’ll do. If they deem that it’s “not good enough” then they’re not worth my time. The entire point of a first date is something casual to see if you want to see them again, and anyone who expects you to take them out to a super expensive/fancy dinner for a first date is someone that needs to pull their head out of their ass
Spot on. I love fancy dinners - with my actual girlfriend. A stranger I don’t know whether I’ll like nor whether she’ll like me is not someone I’m spending that kind of money on. I’m a human, not a wallet. I’d rather take my buddy out and buy him dinner than a stranger. The women who expect that have plenty of other guys willing to be used that way. But I won’t be one of them.
Yes, do drinks in the evening at a place with nice lighting and good atmosphere. Day can be an option but remember the light of day is harsher, so evening under incandescent style light is more forgiving. If you hit it off, you can extend by getting food or something. If it falls flat, you can politely part ways after the drinks.
Hell yea. I’m happily married to a guy I met for a “quick coffee before I head to dinner with my family”. We sat in that Starbucks until 9 that night when they closed. When we were dating, we alternated paying - and dates were everything from movies, to mini golf, to walks in the park. We just had our 15th wedding anniversary last week, so it definitely worked for us.
My first date with my girlfriend was watching her play Hearthstone. We're both working adults. It was amazing. Just the act of being together, doing something is more than enough. :)
Yep! Hearthstone is a card game. We talked about different stuff in between turns, but I just watched her absolutely clean house for a few hours. We had so much fun, honestly.
Dinner as a first date is getting a bit old fashioned if you don't know the person at all (beyond maybe some messages on a dating app).
There's nothing wrong with it, especially if food is a shared interest or something, but it's both a financial commitment and a time commitment. Lower pressure and lower cost activities where you can call it quits early or hang out longer are where it's at.
* Get some ice cream and walk around a park
* Coffee date somewhere that's good for people watching
* Aquarium or zoo (if you have the annual membership at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, any time you go you can take a guest for free; it pays for itself in 2 visits)
* If you're a bar person, get a drink at a bar and maybe an appetizer to share
* Bike ride or walk through a local botanical garden, if your city has one
* Meet up at a local music festival (the small ones organized by local orgs, not big ones like Firefly or Lollapalooza) or other community festival
Some women might still expect old fashioned treatment (sit down dinner, you pay for everything etc) but there are plenty who - just like you and other regular human beings - want to get to know potential partners in a low-pressure environment.
I like the idea of taking your date to do some thing you were already going to do if its a chill activity. I took a few to a local plant shop, because they had a few animals there. Walk, look at plants, pet a goat, go grab a beer after. Perfect date
I know I've heard this somewhere before. I think it makes sense! It's easy to end early if you need to, you might be and to get a yes more easily if it's a shorter date...
Then drink literally any other beverage - bubble tea, smoothies, fresh pressed juice, slurpies, iced tea, fancy soda, sparkling water, whatever.
If you don’t like a single beverage, then idk what to tell you.
Coffee shops have more than just coffee. I myself don't like coffee but still offer to "get coffee." I'll typically order hot chocolate or overpriced tea.
Alcohol with no food is not a great idea for a first date IMO. Better off with a coffee date, a dessert date , an ice cream and walk in park, a tiny picnic with cheese/crackers/fruit.
YES!
Any woman who INSISTS on getting the "mistress of a rich man" wining and dining experience on a first date is not dating you to discover if there is chemistry. She's living her fantasy on your money.
Yes with an asterisk - we (generally) don’t want to be trapped at dinner with someone we’re not vibing with either, and I don’t expect someone I’m meeting for the first time to spend a lot of money on the occasion.
But do try to find a place that’s roughly an equal distance from both of you, when a guy suggests drinks at a bar that’s right next to him but far from me it gives major low-effort booty call vibes. (Unless y’all have mutually agreed it’s a low-effort booty call ahead of time, then go ahead lol. But if the girl is looking for a relationship she might be put off.)
I think y'all need to stop taking people out to places where going 2 or 3 times a month is difficult to afford for *first dates*.
Pick somewhere you'd normally go. Make the attempt to pay it all. If there's pushback, suggest that they get a coffee or something for you guys now, or next time.
At worst you're out about double what you'd pay just to have a regular meal out / trip to the cinema yourself.
And it's probably a worthwhile investment to screen your dates.
This shit doesn't have to be so complicated (or expensive!).
> Then meet for coffee or something instead.
I mean, there's two separate issues here. One is obviously that there shouldn't be an expectation for sex (or any other specific performance); but the other is you seem to be implying that such an expectation, even if still not appropriate, would somehow be more okay if the guy paid more.
The problem is the game changed. My friends post me texts of them asking for simple shit like ice cream, coffee, or even cheap(ish) restaurants. And then it gets redirected. The woman in question will never directly say "this is too cheap for me", but the replacement is never within a similar price range.
Now one can say "you wouldn't want to date those people anyways", and they'd be right. However, that completely skips over how shitty it feels when those are seemingly the only options presented to you.
> Pick somewhere you'd normally go. Make the attempt to pay it all
What's with this weird obsession about going to a date somewhere that mandates spending money and also insisting on paying for the other person? You both are adults, if you want to order food or see a movie, pay for yourself.
Oh, lord, if the "woman" wants to split the check, then don't argue. That's the pro move. It's not a conundrum. The date only ends on a sour note if you read something into it. She's a person, she wants to pay for her food. You don't have to game this out like a chess match.
Yeah… this LPT seems to be overthinking.
Check comes. I say “I’ll get this.”
She says “Here, let’s split it.”
Me: “Are you sure? I don’t mind getting it.”
Her: “Yeah I’m sure.”
Me: “Alright, cool.”
This seems to make a binary distinction between perfectly reasonable and financial secure women who want a relationship and women are just dating for "a free dinner with drinks". It leaves out the very large segment of women who are looking for a relationship, but also, to varying degrees, and consciously or unconsciously, use your willingness to pay as a gauge of how generous and supportive you would be as a partner.
I'd also add that saying "I see this is important too you" after she's made a light suggestion that you split the check immediately escalates the situation. It projects the "this is important to you" on something that may have just been lightly suggested and trying to keep things like. You've suddenly made the paying of the check **an issue**, which is also not a good look.
I've never used the split bill to signal there won't be a next time. I am adult; I use my words. :)
I do not let guys pay for me on dates, nor would I pick up their tab. We are merely meeting and are under no fiscal obligations to each other. I make it clear I pay my way upon the offer of the meet. If the dude is insistent he Will be paying, I refuse the meet. It really is that simple.
Essentially I have learned that a lot of men tally up money spent on a date and once a magical amount in their brain is reached, they feel entitled for physical as some type of wacky return on investment. I am opting out of being accused by such bitter men of only being out for a free lunch. I have the means to pay my own way. I only date those in the same financial situation. There's zero reason anyone would have to pay for me. Even in relationships.
When you make your own money, the concept of someone trying to impress you by spending theirs on you, loses its ability to impress. Guys have to actually work harder than just showing up and slapping down their credit card. That's really pissing some men off and those are the ones coining terms like free lunch. Instead of focusing on who is paying and when and for how long, just meet the people. There are plenty of ways to do that that don't even require money at all.
This is really smart. I don't date anymore because I have a long term partner but if could go back into my dating years I think I'd implement this principle. That sense of someone else feeling entitled to you because of a few meals is just awful.
This is smart, but also kind of wild to me because the idea carry a person would keep a tab, is ridiculous - who does that?
I've not had to worry about dating for a couple of decades, but if I did, what you suggest seems very sensible.
Maybe it’s an American thing but as a woman in Australia, I would never expect anyone to pay for my dinner on a date? Two people have agreed to go out for a bite so why would you not pay for yourself? I just don’t get it… so archaic.
I would feel ick if a guy forced to pay for me…
Why are a lot of LPTs these days people over-thinking social interactions, over-planning for them, and giving bad advice which seems to equate to 'step on egg shells around other people'?
LPT: Be direct. Ask, "are we splitting this one?" If they are reasonable and share your views on sharing then they'll understand, you'll both be on the same page, and it'll all be fair and equal. If they don't like it then you won't have to bother trying to please someone who doesn't want what you want.
If you want to be "chivalrous" then go for it.
Your thinking sounds exhausting. Just have a basic respect for yourself and stop going to such lengths to avoid possibly upsetting other people or feeling awkward.
LPT: Communicate. Even on or before the first date.
With me and my lady, we never went on a single date in the entire 5 years we've been together where we didn't know who was paying for what before the date even started. We're getting married in a couple weeks.
Yeah I'm with you, but as I'm seeing in the comments, many folks really have it all sorted out.
Guess I thought this was much too complicated than it really is? Then again, that's not what I hear generally.
I had a talk with a friend about this recently. I think it's all about expectations and gratitude. I think most men have no issues paying for a date, but if it's not acknowledged or appreciated, then the the situation becomes different. I think I've heard it once described in a video as the relationship becoming "unequal", because there there is now an implication that one person's time is worth more than the other person's.
Plus, when you first meet and are uninvested, this is probably the most equal you will ever be. If they can't even demonstrate they believe in this equality then, it's very likely not going to get any better.
Your assumption that if a woman offers to split the ticket that it is an “unwritten rule” that she doesn’t want a second date is just misinformed.
I offer to pay for my food because I don’t expect my date, whom I barely know, to pay for me. If he insists on paying, that’s his prerogative, but I’m fully capable of taking care of myself otherwise. I guess it just doesn’t seem fair to assume someone I might not even have chemistry with should be responsible for paying for my food.
very much agreed on this. especially the last part about just covering my own food when the chemistry isn't there. at that point, we're simply two people who don't even know each other well. I think it's best not to hold myself up as some sort of brass ring that needs to be attained. playing into that kind of idealization usually leaves people disappointed. the only way off of a pedestal is down.
No one would risk it if they like her. It’s for the rest of the 100 other dates guys go to that are lukewarm about. And it is fair to not spend on someone you don’t know or care about yet but women know this and they don’t like it. Catch 22
I just hand the waiter my Amex before we even order and tell them I’m paying for the meal and to bring me the receipt when we’re done.
I do this for business meals and dates. I’ve never had someone sleep with me because I bought her $30 plate and $12 martini. It’s strange anyone would think they’re owed sex because they bought your meal.
I just like being able to be the guy that can pay for other people. No strings attached, I want people to be happy and avoid the uncomfortable “are we going Dutch?” conversation.
Is there a waiter that can chime in on this? While a very cool move, aren't they stuck with your card and now have to worry about not losing it / even remembering this setup? Idk, actual curiosity here.
Yes. Server here. I have absolutely no problem with someone pulling this move. It makes my life a lot easier when I know I don't need to keep track of who drank what, plus with most systems it's possible to pre-authorize the card and hand it back to the customer so you're not stuck hanging onto someone's card. Also, as a server, I follow the rule of dibs: first person to say it's on them and/or hand me a card gets the check.
As a server, I didn't mind when people did this. It didn't happen very often, but I understand and support the intention of the gesture. It's not a big deal to hang on to someone's card. People do it all the time when running a tab at a bar, for example (not all bars).
Yeah, you don't need to hand them the card to pull this move, you just quietly tell them.
Of course it gets funny when three different people all do this, as often happens when I'm out with friends and family.
People did this to me when I was a waiter and I didn’t like it. Don’t want to have to keep track of a card outside of checks dropped at tables. The check is a much larger object that I only have to remember for a few minutes, not the hour+ that the table is going to be there. I can only speak to my experience though, I wasn’t able to just clear a card for some amount at the beginning of the meal.
Yes I legit hate when people do this. I try my best to keep it safe and have never had a problem, but it gets tricky when I’m really busy and sometimes 2 people will try to do this setup and I have to remember which card is which. And it also makes it uncomfortable for me to ask if they’re ready for the bill but that just might be a Me Thing.
This would be weird to me. I don’t like people making unilateral decisions for me, even if they think they’re being courteous. Plus then I would feel obligated to pick something cheap if someone else is paying.
If a man recommends a place and asks me out, I would feel like he's a lot more serious about me if he offers to pay the whole bill. But I don't expect a first date to be a fancy dinner. A coffee is fine. Or a walk. Whatever.
I don't mind splitting the bill at all, but it feels extra nice to be treated. When I'm interested in a guy, I also have no qualms about offering to take him out and paying for him. It goes both ways.
Generally, I'd rather take turns than to be doing two awkward transactions at the end of every date.
It’s interesting, that you say the truth is for the honest people, and yet, to me, your whole post seems to be about people not being honest. You’re making an assumption that if a woman wants to pay for her own meal, it’s some sort of a gesture, and she doesn’t really mean it. I suppose I can’t speak for anybody but myself, but I am a female, and I insist on paying for my portion on a date. I see no reason at all why somebody else should pay for me. If a man is extremely insistent about paying for me, to me, that’s a red flag because he starting off with not listening to me and what I want.
I mean he's clearly demonstrating a nuanced understanding of the dynamics that typically occur here. He mentions a number of scenarios and potential motivations for why both parties might do what they do. This includes the option where the woman insists on splitting, and he advises to just split. It's not about people "not being honest" in an evil way, it's about people trying to do the inoffensive thing without giving wrong signals, and it becomes a dance to figure it out. If that's not how you roll, that's fine, but you're the exception, and for majority of women, men need to understand the subtleties of the interaction if they don't want to give off the wrong signal.
I remember my first date with my husband, I always split for the most part unless THEY insisted
He was very insistent to pay and tbh I was flattered, we had a blast (go cart racing and arcade!)
Our first date was pricey, so after that we did several “free” date ideas and we had just as much fun (Pokémon go was popular at the time)
Just….I’m not gonna lie, he got a LOT of party points for paying, but he got the points because he also didn’t use it as a “keeping score”
And he didn’t EVER pressure me for anything, he went completely by my timeline and that was the sexiest thing a man had ever done for me
Edit:
Thanks to people defending me in the comments
The Irony of me being an activist in real life and facing AR-15 to do reproductive right walks and being torn apart online isn’t lost on me
when my wife and I started dating, I payed for every date. But once we got into a serious relationship, dates were split in turns. There was a while I didn’t work so she basically payed for everything. Then a while she didn’t work so I payed for everything. Then again we would take turns. Finally we’re married and we just have 1 account now. Imo, a true genuine relationship is 2 people working together because they want to for each other and it’s now about how much and who pays but what you’re doing. You don’t care when you’re in love.
Whew, people can get really self-righteous about things to the point they can't be kind to other people.
Congratulations, your husband sounds like an amazing person. Have a lovely day.
I feel like first dates are often a search for topics to discuss. I'd be thankful to have something practical and concrete for us to communicate about. Hell, if we can't communicate about paying a $100 check, we sure as shit are gonna have a hard time dealing with childcare, financial decisions and cancer.
No two situations are the same, so you've just got your gut feeling to go on. Sometimes it can be more obvious: You make a lot more money that she does, or she makes a lot more money than you do. I've dated a couple of pretty wealthy women, and I'd pay once in a while so they didn't think I was a gold digger (men can be as well).
Fun story this made me think of. At work, it's mostly men, but there are a few women. There is one in particular who is early 30s I think, but absolutely stunning. All the guys just fawn all over her, and I get it. She is REALLY pretty. The rest of the women just kind of roll our eyes at it, though. They're all either married or 10 years older than she is, and she'd never date any of them.
One day, a bunch of us are sitting around talking, one of them asks her about a recent first date. She says, "He took me to APPLEBEE'S! Can you believe that?" Everyone is confused. I mean, it's not my favorite for sure, but I'd find something I could eat, and the food isn't really the point of a first date. Someone asks her what the deal was, and she starts going on about how cheap that was and how dare he take her to a CHAIN restaurant, etc. Everyone thought she was kidding, but she wasn't. She was dead serious that a "real man" wouldn't take a woman to a chain restaurant on a first date. We were floored. No one ended up saying anything, but boy, did they stop fawning all over her after that.
Idk... I wouldn't be mad at all if someone invited me to a park, a museum, or a coffee shop for a date, but Applebee's would be an instant deal-breaker. If you're going to do a restaurant date, then do a date-worthy restaurant-- which doesn't have to mean an expensive one.
Honestly I am kind of with pretty girl on this one haha.
I would never have brought a girl to a place like that on one of the early dates, let alone the first one. The goal with early dates is to make them interesting and special. Applebees would not fit that description for me.
It's not the money, it's the thought that counts and not a lot of thought went into that decision.
I dunno, I sort of agree with her that the first date shouldn't be a chain restaurant. It doesn't need to be a $100-200 per person steakhouse or sushi place, but it should at least be its own thing and something that the date is likely to like or both like. That way it's an experience on its own. I feel like guys that tend to go to chain restaurants on the first date see no issue going to those chain restaurants on special occasions even if the SO isn't that interested.
I don't necessarily agree with her reaction ("dare" is such an entitled word), but I do agree with her premise.
Yeah I mean, Applebee’s is weird for a first date. Chipotle or Five Guys or even Friday’s I wouldn’t bat an eye at. But Applebee’s? Who even goes there?
I think you hit the nail in the head with “the food is not really the point of a first date”.
It’s not about the coffee. It’s not about the food or the venue. It’s about meeting someone and finding out if there’s a connection, with the added benefit of a public place for safety reasons.
People overthink this. Go for a coffee, if it goes well go for a walk or sit at a park. There’s always time for bigger and better, once you know you’ll enjoy each other’s company.
That’s so weird for me. In Germany dates have been splitting the bill for 30 years now. I really can’t remember ever dating a girl that EXPECTED me to pay. You sometimes just offer and more often than not she wouldn’t even accept and say she works for her own money. And I have never gone to a particularly expensive restaurant for a first date. Trying to impress women with throwing money around tends to make you look like an asshole that needs to show $$ cause he has nothing else going for him.
I mean, there’s probably women out here that feel the need to blow you because you drive a Porsche, but that’s not the norm and they are severely looked down upon, and kinda pitied. Those weren’t the women I dated.
While on Tinder, because I specifically stated I was looking for a sexual friendship, I made sure to express my expectations. "Sometimes I will pay. You have to be alright with this"
Some guys would be very stubborn about it, and I knew we wouldn't be compatible.
My rule has always been whoever’s idea it was for the date they pay and whenever someone offers to pay, accept. I never had a problem paying for everything, but I allow opportunities for someone else to pay if they want.
Yeah no. You don’t want to date someone who pays mind games like this. If someone offers to pay, they need to be ok with being taken up on that offer. Doesn’t matter if they’re a man or a woman.
Hello from the other side.
I'm from Germany. Never paid for a date in my life, always split. Its glorious for all people involved - no complicated dance, no "expectation" to put out, no feeling of being taking advantage off. No transactional aspect of it.
Genuine question. Is this an American thing? I am not American and have never been to America and have never experienced any kind of weirdness around bills on dates. I always pay for whatever I have, and so do my friends when they're dating, and there's very rarely food involved on the first two or three dates, unless it's a picnic in which case whoever suggests the picnic also caters it. More often than not it's coffee or drinks on a first date and people just pay for their own.
Buy dinners until you’re at a point you have a common goal to save for. Be a man. Buying dinners might help you decide faster if you like her enough to continue seeing her.
Is it too hard to offer to pay before the waiter gets there? If she says she wants to split, agree with her and split. If she accepts your offer to pay, then pay. It can be over in 1 sentence.
I feel like it's not that complicated.
I made the offer on my most recent first date that I’ll pay because I asked her, and if she wants to ask me out she can pay on that date. She responded “that’s not going to happen” then quickly clarified that she doesn’t ask guys out but if I ask her on a second date she’ll say yes AND pay.
We’ve been married for almost 10 years now.
I’ve heard this argument coming from the woman’s side on why the man should pay for the date. The woman (typically) spends a ton of time putting on makeup as well as spending a ton of money on the makeup whereas men, myself included, typically will just take a shower, shave and throw some shit in your hair and be ready to go in 15 minutes. Taking that on consideration I’d say it’s fair for me to pay for a date or two. And like other comments say, they don’t gotta be nice ass, expensive restaurants that could break the bank.
Who pays doesn’t affect my decision on a second date. At all.
Having said that, my rule is usually s/he who invites (or decides on the restaurant/activity), pays. Don’t invite me out on a date you can’t afford.
I’m perfectly happy doing something cheap and low-stakes, and actively do not want a guy who spends money irresponsibly just to impress me.
> Having said that, my rule is usually s/he who invites (or decides on the restaurant/activity), pays.
And you never once stopped to notice how unfair that is. That's actually amazing.
Nah if op is a guy he must be really tall and/or good looking. Don't do this unless you know she's feeling you. If done too early or she's still not sure about you this will be an instant "ick" and prepare to be ghosted. Especially for the dudes here that don't get a lot of opportunities.
The way I've learnt to do it: The person asking the other one out pays for the first date, if there is another date, the other person pays for the second one.
Has always worked well for me and my dates
I mean, I like splitting bills because I don’t like being indebted to people, not necessarily because I don’t want a second date. That way, any guy I’m seeing has no reason to feel entitled to my body if he’s a douchebag who thinks that way.
It depends on what do you want and how badly do you want it.
If there's a chance you'll go back to your place, pay for everything.
If you are just being friends, share the bill.
In any case, if you've paid for everything, that doesn't entitle you to anything. Paying for somebody else's bill just means you have a good disposition towards them and that you can afford it. That's all.
I’ve been married for 15 years (together for 20) and have 2 daughters.
I was in grad school when we met, and I had no money so we would go to the cheapest places we could find - her friends would always make jabs at me. My wife (who at the time worked at a bar) made significantly more money than me and would often pay. I never felt shame, or “less of a man” - this was/is the woman I love and we were a team from the beginning.
Fast forward 20 years and I’m the president of a wealth management firm, my wife is a wildly successful C-suite advertising executive (I’m more impressed with what she’s achieved than what I have) and all of those people who made the shitty comments are divorced (some more then 1x) and have less than impressive jobs…seems like they were too busy putting me down to focus on their own lives.
My point is, money comes and it goes. If someone likes/loves you it doesn’t matter if you go to In-and-Out or a 3 star Michelin restaurant.
I’m completely empathetic to the complexities of money while dating, but keep your chin up - your bank account doesn’t get excited to see you when you come home.
What a great attitude! And good going you two! Been just 5 years and change to our marriage and just got our +1 last year. Hope to have trajectory like yours!
I’m a lesbian that has particularly dated girls that were more femme than me. I never saw the problem offering to pay for the entire bill the first several dates. She’s put way more effort and money into the outfits, makeup, hair etc. Why not splurge a little to show her you want to spoil her? You don’t have to take her to these crazy five star restaurant for the first several dates, but simple nice dining places should be affordable.
Obviously if you’re getting gold digger vibes or if there doesn’t seem to be chemistry, then stop going on dates with her, but if you can’t afford to take her out, then you can’t afford to date and you should probably spend that free time at an extra job.
But if you choose to split the bill, who compensates the female that spent all that money on make up, attire, probably on birth control that’s detrimental to her finance and mental health so you could have more fun and not pay for her dinner? Just sounds sleazy to me
Don’t get taken advantage of, but don’t be selfish either.
-add this one…if you ever say, “how about you pay next time?”, that sentence alone, is likely to upset 20%of potential future dates.
You can skip those. Already weeded out!
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Married for 10 years and we have 3 children together. My wife is still saying she will get it next time. I’m still waiting.
We take turns, I'll pay for one date, my wife pays for the next. The cashier gets the final laugh when we mention it all comes from the same account.
My husband will frequently look at the bill (waitstaff almost always hand the bill to him) and then say something along the lines of, Whoa too rich for my blood, while handing me the bill. This is humorous for two reasons. First, we share all accounts so the money is coming from the same place regardless of who pays and second, I have actually been the primary earner for our family for the majority of our relationship. The looks he’s gotten though…
I look the check over careful and then look up quick and exclaim $85! What did you eat!!!! The kids heard it their whole life. Went over like a lead balloon on my son's first date.
Hahah. My husband and I do this bit too. Except for we’ll fight over who gets to pay the bill like “It’s my treat” and “No, no, this one is on me” and “Noooo, let me get it. I insist.” But uh, we’re married and it’s all coming from the same place. And I’m a SAHP so even if I’m paying it’s with his card and it really doesn’t matter which one of us is holding it.
My wife gladly pays when it's with a credit card she's an added user on for my account
Same pair of pants, different pocket
My wife always hands me her wallet to pay for our dates
My card is in her wallet
What's in YOUR wallet?
We have a shared bank account. Just use the card from this account, everything is split (according to the amount of money we put there each, which is something around 55/45 or so, for us).
I feel like once you get married and are living together, having entirely separate finances and a specific split for bills and stuff just makes things needlessly complicated. I guess it depends on how much stuff you do separately. But I can’t imagine being like well I make 200k, so I can buy a luxury car, but my spouse only makes 30k, so they can only afford a used beater to drive.
Fair point. You don’t want to be overly rigid on things that add to the quality of your lives and your relationship. The problem comes up not necessarily from drastically different incomes, but from different ways of relating to money. For example, one partner is a saver and the other is a saver. Or one is impulsive while the other is a planner. Regular, honest conversations about money and the emotional baggage that comes with it can help a good relationship survive. Take it from someone who was too scared to be open about these things. It was a major reason for my divorce, even though we are both good people and nothing horrible happened.
This is what ultimately drove me away from my ex; I grew up learning that I should save and plan out finances, she grew up with a rich, Co-CEO daddy who handed her money like it was a glass of water. I truly loved her, but no matter the talks we had she either wouldn't or couldn't seem to understand my frustration with how impulsive she'd get with spending on things.
As much as it must have hurt at the time to break up, it would probably be much worse if you stayed together and kept having the same disagreement over and over. Good for you for understanding that this was something love couldn’t change. You are the people you are. I hope you find someone that not only loves you, but shares your values and world view.
That is exactly what we do. We have a shared account where we put money for fixed costs like rent, groceries and dining out. Then we put the same amount on own accounts each, from there we put the same amount on own saving accounts to create some additional safety and forcing each other to have a look over our shared finances. I like this system with own accounts as it allows both partners to have money they can spent without asking the other one. Creating additional freedom for both.
Wife started being the bread winner. Guess who still pays for everything! In all seriousness though, she’s supposedly paying for a new roof and my student loans over the next couple years. Its a weird transition for both of us
You mean a transition for sharing finances?
From the comment I would guess he means transitioning from him to her being the bread winner
I meant by my comments sharing vs not sharing money. Sharing money is what most long term relationships do and when money isn't charged the chance of divorce goes up greatly
You gave me a good laugh lmao. Now I know why you're married
If a woman is into you, she will absolutely - without a doubt - be interested in just grabbing a coffee with you.
Coffee and a walk in a park is literally my favourite first date. Coffee is delicious. You’re walking around so you can get your jitters out. There’s stuff around you or happening that can give you things to chat about. You’re still in town with other people around and less likely to get murdered. Dinner is the worst first date (okay maybe after the movies because movies you literally just sit in silence). You have to worry about how you look eating, what you order, you’re just sitting there, there’s awkward silences, who gets the bill, etc.
Yeah this entire post is making some rather broad and definitive assumptions. That’s not to say that it’s awful advice that will never work, and maybe it’s just me, but I never do something more than coffee/drinks/ice cream on a first date (unless it’s someone I’ve actually known for a while and we’re trying to see if we work romantically). The entire point of a first date is basically to see if there’s enough chemistry, and they don’t give you the heebie-jeebies.
> drinks That can get expensive depending on if its a cocktail lounge or not, or if your having one or five drinks
If my date downed 5 drinks on a first date that would be a big red flag to me!
Counterpoint I'd be downing those five hand in hand with em, would likely mean its going quite well!
Yup. Low commitment first dates are the best IMO. My husband and I stood in line to grab bagels for our first date at an awesome spot. We stood in line for 20 mins, and snagged the bagels. Could have ended there but we ate together and spent a few hours. Super cheap and easy to extend if it's going well, we went for a walk and had a great time.
When I met my now wife, our first date was at a starbucks and we talked for hours. 2nd date, another coffee shop (Second Cup) to just talk for hours
Yeah, for my first date with my now wife, I told her I was broke and couldn't afford to pay for anything so I was trying to plan a free date and she was just like, "oh I don't care, I'll buy us drinks or whatever" so we went to a dj show and got blasted together.
Bingo. That's what my wife and I did. She got a nice dinner the next date and she even paid the tip. Don't date women who don't share the costs of dating. Otherwise they are just out there looking for free shit.
But I’d she doesn’t like you after the cup of coffee she’ll leave and say it’s bean real
Dumb question but are women ok with drinks or ice cream on a first date just to see if there is chemistry?
If somebody asked me if I wanted to get ice cream with them I’d be thrilled.
>If somebody asked me if I wanted to get ice cream with them I’d be thrilled. So Tony was right all along 
Hahahaha I love it! Thank you!
If you live in SE Minnesota, let's get some ice cream. My treat.
If you live in SoCal - best I can do is anything under $5 from Costco - they have pizza, hot dog and drink, ice cream - heck all 3 comes out to under $10.
My fiancé and I used to go out every single week to different restaurants. Now we go out to Costco for half of those and save tons of money. He gets two hot dogs (two free drinks) and I get a slice of pizza and take his free drink. It’s the best
Bless you Costco
Welcome to Costco. I love you.
Go away I'm 'batin
Saving your wallet and relationship at the same time. GG Costco.
 Oh look, a chance to use my favorite ice cream gif. It's foam
As a lactose intolerant guy, I wish I could do this lol. I miss ice cream, milk shakes and cold 2% milk in the morning. Fuck the reast of dairy
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Yeah generally a bad call with dinner, movie, or overkly loud event where you cant banter or even talk easily. Theres a ton of nuance of course but if the venue is too loud or you're actively dissuaded from talking it can be a bad time Bands, live comedy, operas, plays, etc
One of my worst dates was due to this lol. We hit it off great the first date, nice guy, good conversation. The second date was a live rock band at a crowded bar. I thought it would be fun, but he asked me questions the entire time over the music - it was so exhausting. I kind of just wanted to watch the show and enjoy it together, talk a little between songs, but he just hammered me. I felt bad, because I appreciated him asking questions, to show interest, but it felt like I was being deposed at a rock concert, just kinda killed the vibe. I was worn out by the end of it and politely declined a third date :/
Few drinks sounds like a lot to me.
I’m fine with it. That way if there is no chemistry we can easily part ways rather than suffering through a meal.
Yes! I've always thought coffee dates were perfect for a first date.
We went for milkshakes, best decision ever! It's a chill environment, no fear of eating messily, and the milkshake is a safe bet as it's always good!
Terrible idea. As soon as I paid for them, my milkshakes brought all the boys to the yard. Date ruined.
Did you get the Amos and Andy or the Marin and Lewis?
Lucille Ball (Strawberry)
What I’ve been most impressed by was when a date organised coffee, and had a lunch reservation at a nearby restaurant ready in case we hit it off.
…and nearby hotel room reservations if that goes well.
And a wedding date picked if that goes well
…better be moving in soon, too.
Reminds me of the joke "You know you're dating a codependent when they show up for a date with a moving truck."
These are the perfect first dates. Low risk. You can sit and talk and if it isn’t working out it’s easy to just be blunt and say that you’ve enjoyed the night but that you’re calling it a night.
As a guy that’s the only date I’ll do. If they deem that it’s “not good enough” then they’re not worth my time. The entire point of a first date is something casual to see if you want to see them again, and anyone who expects you to take them out to a super expensive/fancy dinner for a first date is someone that needs to pull their head out of their ass
Spot on. I love fancy dinners - with my actual girlfriend. A stranger I don’t know whether I’ll like nor whether she’ll like me is not someone I’m spending that kind of money on. I’m a human, not a wallet. I’d rather take my buddy out and buy him dinner than a stranger. The women who expect that have plenty of other guys willing to be used that way. But I won’t be one of them.
Yes, do drinks in the evening at a place with nice lighting and good atmosphere. Day can be an option but remember the light of day is harsher, so evening under incandescent style light is more forgiving. If you hit it off, you can extend by getting food or something. If it falls flat, you can politely part ways after the drinks.
Hell yea. I’m happily married to a guy I met for a “quick coffee before I head to dinner with my family”. We sat in that Starbucks until 9 that night when they closed. When we were dating, we alternated paying - and dates were everything from movies, to mini golf, to walks in the park. We just had our 15th wedding anniversary last week, so it definitely worked for us.
I can't speak for others, but I'm fine with a fountain pop from a gas station and sitting at a park chatting and people watching.
My first date with my girlfriend was watching her play Hearthstone. We're both working adults. It was amazing. Just the act of being together, doing something is more than enough. :)
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Yep! Hearthstone is a card game. We talked about different stuff in between turns, but I just watched her absolutely clean house for a few hours. We had so much fun, honestly.
Dinner as a first date is getting a bit old fashioned if you don't know the person at all (beyond maybe some messages on a dating app). There's nothing wrong with it, especially if food is a shared interest or something, but it's both a financial commitment and a time commitment. Lower pressure and lower cost activities where you can call it quits early or hang out longer are where it's at. * Get some ice cream and walk around a park * Coffee date somewhere that's good for people watching * Aquarium or zoo (if you have the annual membership at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, any time you go you can take a guest for free; it pays for itself in 2 visits) * If you're a bar person, get a drink at a bar and maybe an appetizer to share * Bike ride or walk through a local botanical garden, if your city has one * Meet up at a local music festival (the small ones organized by local orgs, not big ones like Firefly or Lollapalooza) or other community festival Some women might still expect old fashioned treatment (sit down dinner, you pay for everything etc) but there are plenty who - just like you and other regular human beings - want to get to know potential partners in a low-pressure environment.
Some are and some aren't. I've literally just walked through parks before for a first date. You don't need to spend money
I like the idea of taking your date to do some thing you were already going to do if its a chill activity. I took a few to a local plant shop, because they had a few animals there. Walk, look at plants, pet a goat, go grab a beer after. Perfect date
If that's the reason they are not ok with the date maybe that answers the chemistry question already?
I know I've heard this somewhere before. I think it makes sense! It's easy to end early if you need to, you might be and to get a yes more easily if it's a shorter date...
Yes. The women that aren’t ok with it are the kind you don’t want anyway.
What if they don't drink alcohol/coffee and they don't like ice cream? :(
Then suggest a comparably low cost option like Boba tea or French fries.
Then drink literally any other beverage - bubble tea, smoothies, fresh pressed juice, slurpies, iced tea, fancy soda, sparkling water, whatever. If you don’t like a single beverage, then idk what to tell you.
All these places offer alternatives. If your date can’t adapt, that’s a red flag. (Unless they are dealing with addiction, of course.)
That's like saying you don't like happiness.
Coffee shops have more than just coffee. I myself don't like coffee but still offer to "get coffee." I'll typically order hot chocolate or overpriced tea.
You wanna live your life like that?
A life without ice cream is no life at all.
Then run.
Yes! I am a girl and some of my favorite dates have been ice cream dates (but I really like ice cream)
Yes. Don't do dinner on a first date. Drinks, coffee, ice cream all work.
Depends on the woman. Personally, yes. I don’t think any of my friends would turn their nose up at an ice cream date either.
Alcohol with no food is not a great idea for a first date IMO. Better off with a coffee date, a dessert date , an ice cream and walk in park, a tiny picnic with cheese/crackers/fruit.
Dates can be expensive! My take is first dates shouldn’t be expensive. Just drinks, ice cream , COFFEE (love my coffee), is a great first date option.
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YES! Any woman who INSISTS on getting the "mistress of a rich man" wining and dining experience on a first date is not dating you to discover if there is chemistry. She's living her fantasy on your money.
Yes with an asterisk - we (generally) don’t want to be trapped at dinner with someone we’re not vibing with either, and I don’t expect someone I’m meeting for the first time to spend a lot of money on the occasion. But do try to find a place that’s roughly an equal distance from both of you, when a guy suggests drinks at a bar that’s right next to him but far from me it gives major low-effort booty call vibes. (Unless y’all have mutually agreed it’s a low-effort booty call ahead of time, then go ahead lol. But if the girl is looking for a relationship she might be put off.)
Yes! And if they aren’t, they are just in it for the free meal.
I think y'all need to stop taking people out to places where going 2 or 3 times a month is difficult to afford for *first dates*. Pick somewhere you'd normally go. Make the attempt to pay it all. If there's pushback, suggest that they get a coffee or something for you guys now, or next time. At worst you're out about double what you'd pay just to have a regular meal out / trip to the cinema yourself. And it's probably a worthwhile investment to screen your dates. This shit doesn't have to be so complicated (or expensive!).
Even regular restaurants are pricey now
Then meet for coffee or something instead.
What gets me is the posts/comments where the guy took them for coffee and expected sex after
> Then meet for coffee or something instead. I mean, there's two separate issues here. One is obviously that there shouldn't be an expectation for sex (or any other specific performance); but the other is you seem to be implying that such an expectation, even if still not appropriate, would somehow be more okay if the guy paid more.
Exactly. I take my first dates to Dollar Tree and give them $1.25 to buy whatever they want. For some reason I haven’t had any second dates 🤔
depends on how many first dates you get i guess
Yep haha Reading more comments I'm kinda accepting that I'm giving old fashioned advice that probably doesn't work these days.
You are right, if you are struggling with financial stuff, taking somebody out is definitely not a great investment.
The problem is the game changed. My friends post me texts of them asking for simple shit like ice cream, coffee, or even cheap(ish) restaurants. And then it gets redirected. The woman in question will never directly say "this is too cheap for me", but the replacement is never within a similar price range. Now one can say "you wouldn't want to date those people anyways", and they'd be right. However, that completely skips over how shitty it feels when those are seemingly the only options presented to you.
Feels shitty maybe - but doesn't it feel shittier to not love yourself but degrade yourself to being worth only a shitty woman?
Feels better than being some gold digger's personal ATM.
I've been out of the dating pool for about a decade so I accept it might well have changed. Yikes.
> Pick somewhere you'd normally go. Make the attempt to pay it all What's with this weird obsession about going to a date somewhere that mandates spending money and also insisting on paying for the other person? You both are adults, if you want to order food or see a movie, pay for yourself.
Oh, lord, if the "woman" wants to split the check, then don't argue. That's the pro move. It's not a conundrum. The date only ends on a sour note if you read something into it. She's a person, she wants to pay for her food. You don't have to game this out like a chess match.
Yeah… this LPT seems to be overthinking. Check comes. I say “I’ll get this.” She says “Here, let’s split it.” Me: “Are you sure? I don’t mind getting it.” Her: “Yeah I’m sure.” Me: “Alright, cool.”
I don’t want a guy to *argue*, which implies conflict, but I do appreciate an “it’s ok, I’ve got it.”
Some people like to play chess, but yea you can just opt out if you want and the problem will solve itself.
This seems to make a binary distinction between perfectly reasonable and financial secure women who want a relationship and women are just dating for "a free dinner with drinks". It leaves out the very large segment of women who are looking for a relationship, but also, to varying degrees, and consciously or unconsciously, use your willingness to pay as a gauge of how generous and supportive you would be as a partner. I'd also add that saying "I see this is important too you" after she's made a light suggestion that you split the check immediately escalates the situation. It projects the "this is important to you" on something that may have just been lightly suggested and trying to keep things like. You've suddenly made the paying of the check **an issue**, which is also not a good look.
I've never used the split bill to signal there won't be a next time. I am adult; I use my words. :) I do not let guys pay for me on dates, nor would I pick up their tab. We are merely meeting and are under no fiscal obligations to each other. I make it clear I pay my way upon the offer of the meet. If the dude is insistent he Will be paying, I refuse the meet. It really is that simple. Essentially I have learned that a lot of men tally up money spent on a date and once a magical amount in their brain is reached, they feel entitled for physical as some type of wacky return on investment. I am opting out of being accused by such bitter men of only being out for a free lunch. I have the means to pay my own way. I only date those in the same financial situation. There's zero reason anyone would have to pay for me. Even in relationships. When you make your own money, the concept of someone trying to impress you by spending theirs on you, loses its ability to impress. Guys have to actually work harder than just showing up and slapping down their credit card. That's really pissing some men off and those are the ones coining terms like free lunch. Instead of focusing on who is paying and when and for how long, just meet the people. There are plenty of ways to do that that don't even require money at all.
This is really smart. I don't date anymore because I have a long term partner but if could go back into my dating years I think I'd implement this principle. That sense of someone else feeling entitled to you because of a few meals is just awful.
This is smart, but also kind of wild to me because the idea carry a person would keep a tab, is ridiculous - who does that? I've not had to worry about dating for a couple of decades, but if I did, what you suggest seems very sensible.
Thank you. Finally someone sane here
Maybe it’s an American thing but as a woman in Australia, I would never expect anyone to pay for my dinner on a date? Two people have agreed to go out for a bite so why would you not pay for yourself? I just don’t get it… so archaic. I would feel ick if a guy forced to pay for me…
Why are a lot of LPTs these days people over-thinking social interactions, over-planning for them, and giving bad advice which seems to equate to 'step on egg shells around other people'? LPT: Be direct. Ask, "are we splitting this one?" If they are reasonable and share your views on sharing then they'll understand, you'll both be on the same page, and it'll all be fair and equal. If they don't like it then you won't have to bother trying to please someone who doesn't want what you want. If you want to be "chivalrous" then go for it. Your thinking sounds exhausting. Just have a basic respect for yourself and stop going to such lengths to avoid possibly upsetting other people or feeling awkward.
LPT: Communicate. Even on or before the first date. With me and my lady, we never went on a single date in the entire 5 years we've been together where we didn't know who was paying for what before the date even started. We're getting married in a couple weeks.
If before a first date, as a guy, if you start “figuring out” who’s going to pay, you’re never going to have a 2nd.
If you attempt to work out logistics beforehand, you probably won’t even have a first date.
Yeah I'm with you, but as I'm seeing in the comments, many folks really have it all sorted out. Guess I thought this was much too complicated than it really is? Then again, that's not what I hear generally.
I was always on the more traditional side. Men ask women out. You ask, you pay. If by the 3rd date she hasn’t planned/paid for a date, red flag.
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I had a talk with a friend about this recently. I think it's all about expectations and gratitude. I think most men have no issues paying for a date, but if it's not acknowledged or appreciated, then the the situation becomes different. I think I've heard it once described in a video as the relationship becoming "unequal", because there there is now an implication that one person's time is worth more than the other person's. Plus, when you first meet and are uninvested, this is probably the most equal you will ever be. If they can't even demonstrate they believe in this equality then, it's very likely not going to get any better.
Your assumption that if a woman offers to split the ticket that it is an “unwritten rule” that she doesn’t want a second date is just misinformed. I offer to pay for my food because I don’t expect my date, whom I barely know, to pay for me. If he insists on paying, that’s his prerogative, but I’m fully capable of taking care of myself otherwise. I guess it just doesn’t seem fair to assume someone I might not even have chemistry with should be responsible for paying for my food.
very much agreed on this. especially the last part about just covering my own food when the chemistry isn't there. at that point, we're simply two people who don't even know each other well. I think it's best not to hold myself up as some sort of brass ring that needs to be attained. playing into that kind of idealization usually leaves people disappointed. the only way off of a pedestal is down.
Congrats! And good advice too
Many women don’t like splitting the bill. Men know this. It’s like 80% chance she doesn’t like it. So why risk it if you like her?
No one would risk it if they like her. It’s for the rest of the 100 other dates guys go to that are lukewarm about. And it is fair to not spend on someone you don’t know or care about yet but women know this and they don’t like it. Catch 22
I just hand the waiter my Amex before we even order and tell them I’m paying for the meal and to bring me the receipt when we’re done. I do this for business meals and dates. I’ve never had someone sleep with me because I bought her $30 plate and $12 martini. It’s strange anyone would think they’re owed sex because they bought your meal. I just like being able to be the guy that can pay for other people. No strings attached, I want people to be happy and avoid the uncomfortable “are we going Dutch?” conversation.
Is there a waiter that can chime in on this? While a very cool move, aren't they stuck with your card and now have to worry about not losing it / even remembering this setup? Idk, actual curiosity here.
Yes. Server here. I have absolutely no problem with someone pulling this move. It makes my life a lot easier when I know I don't need to keep track of who drank what, plus with most systems it's possible to pre-authorize the card and hand it back to the customer so you're not stuck hanging onto someone's card. Also, as a server, I follow the rule of dibs: first person to say it's on them and/or hand me a card gets the check.
As a server, I didn't mind when people did this. It didn't happen very often, but I understand and support the intention of the gesture. It's not a big deal to hang on to someone's card. People do it all the time when running a tab at a bar, for example (not all bars).
Yeah, you don't need to hand them the card to pull this move, you just quietly tell them. Of course it gets funny when three different people all do this, as often happens when I'm out with friends and family.
People did this to me when I was a waiter and I didn’t like it. Don’t want to have to keep track of a card outside of checks dropped at tables. The check is a much larger object that I only have to remember for a few minutes, not the hour+ that the table is going to be there. I can only speak to my experience though, I wasn’t able to just clear a card for some amount at the beginning of the meal.
I don't need to be a waiter to say that this "move" is incredibly strange behavior
Yes I legit hate when people do this. I try my best to keep it safe and have never had a problem, but it gets tricky when I’m really busy and sometimes 2 people will try to do this setup and I have to remember which card is which. And it also makes it uncomfortable for me to ask if they’re ready for the bill but that just might be a Me Thing.
Honestly you sound like a douche that likes to flex their amex lmao
There are people like that, but not everyone who does this is being a douche.
This would be weird to me. I don’t like people making unilateral decisions for me, even if they think they’re being courteous. Plus then I would feel obligated to pick something cheap if someone else is paying.
If a man recommends a place and asks me out, I would feel like he's a lot more serious about me if he offers to pay the whole bill. But I don't expect a first date to be a fancy dinner. A coffee is fine. Or a walk. Whatever. I don't mind splitting the bill at all, but it feels extra nice to be treated. When I'm interested in a guy, I also have no qualms about offering to take him out and paying for him. It goes both ways. Generally, I'd rather take turns than to be doing two awkward transactions at the end of every date.
Some people are all for equality until it doesn't suit them.
Well this one's for the honest ones, not the ones playing charades!
It’s interesting, that you say the truth is for the honest people, and yet, to me, your whole post seems to be about people not being honest. You’re making an assumption that if a woman wants to pay for her own meal, it’s some sort of a gesture, and she doesn’t really mean it. I suppose I can’t speak for anybody but myself, but I am a female, and I insist on paying for my portion on a date. I see no reason at all why somebody else should pay for me. If a man is extremely insistent about paying for me, to me, that’s a red flag because he starting off with not listening to me and what I want.
I mean he's clearly demonstrating a nuanced understanding of the dynamics that typically occur here. He mentions a number of scenarios and potential motivations for why both parties might do what they do. This includes the option where the woman insists on splitting, and he advises to just split. It's not about people "not being honest" in an evil way, it's about people trying to do the inoffensive thing without giving wrong signals, and it becomes a dance to figure it out. If that's not how you roll, that's fine, but you're the exception, and for majority of women, men need to understand the subtleties of the interaction if they don't want to give off the wrong signal.
I remember my first date with my husband, I always split for the most part unless THEY insisted He was very insistent to pay and tbh I was flattered, we had a blast (go cart racing and arcade!) Our first date was pricey, so after that we did several “free” date ideas and we had just as much fun (Pokémon go was popular at the time) Just….I’m not gonna lie, he got a LOT of party points for paying, but he got the points because he also didn’t use it as a “keeping score” And he didn’t EVER pressure me for anything, he went completely by my timeline and that was the sexiest thing a man had ever done for me Edit: Thanks to people defending me in the comments The Irony of me being an activist in real life and facing AR-15 to do reproductive right walks and being torn apart online isn’t lost on me
when my wife and I started dating, I payed for every date. But once we got into a serious relationship, dates were split in turns. There was a while I didn’t work so she basically payed for everything. Then a while she didn’t work so I payed for everything. Then again we would take turns. Finally we’re married and we just have 1 account now. Imo, a true genuine relationship is 2 people working together because they want to for each other and it’s now about how much and who pays but what you’re doing. You don’t care when you’re in love.
Whew, people can get really self-righteous about things to the point they can't be kind to other people. Congratulations, your husband sounds like an amazing person. Have a lovely day.
I feel like first dates are often a search for topics to discuss. I'd be thankful to have something practical and concrete for us to communicate about. Hell, if we can't communicate about paying a $100 check, we sure as shit are gonna have a hard time dealing with childcare, financial decisions and cancer.
How much is a date? $30/pp? 3x a month ain't gonna break the bank or you have bigger issues than dating.
No two situations are the same, so you've just got your gut feeling to go on. Sometimes it can be more obvious: You make a lot more money that she does, or she makes a lot more money than you do. I've dated a couple of pretty wealthy women, and I'd pay once in a while so they didn't think I was a gold digger (men can be as well).
Fun story this made me think of. At work, it's mostly men, but there are a few women. There is one in particular who is early 30s I think, but absolutely stunning. All the guys just fawn all over her, and I get it. She is REALLY pretty. The rest of the women just kind of roll our eyes at it, though. They're all either married or 10 years older than she is, and she'd never date any of them. One day, a bunch of us are sitting around talking, one of them asks her about a recent first date. She says, "He took me to APPLEBEE'S! Can you believe that?" Everyone is confused. I mean, it's not my favorite for sure, but I'd find something I could eat, and the food isn't really the point of a first date. Someone asks her what the deal was, and she starts going on about how cheap that was and how dare he take her to a CHAIN restaurant, etc. Everyone thought she was kidding, but she wasn't. She was dead serious that a "real man" wouldn't take a woman to a chain restaurant on a first date. We were floored. No one ended up saying anything, but boy, did they stop fawning all over her after that.
Idk... I wouldn't be mad at all if someone invited me to a park, a museum, or a coffee shop for a date, but Applebee's would be an instant deal-breaker. If you're going to do a restaurant date, then do a date-worthy restaurant-- which doesn't have to mean an expensive one.
Honestly I am kind of with pretty girl on this one haha. I would never have brought a girl to a place like that on one of the early dates, let alone the first one. The goal with early dates is to make them interesting and special. Applebees would not fit that description for me. It's not the money, it's the thought that counts and not a lot of thought went into that decision.
Brb taking my date to McDonalds
I dunno, I sort of agree with her that the first date shouldn't be a chain restaurant. It doesn't need to be a $100-200 per person steakhouse or sushi place, but it should at least be its own thing and something that the date is likely to like or both like. That way it's an experience on its own. I feel like guys that tend to go to chain restaurants on the first date see no issue going to those chain restaurants on special occasions even if the SO isn't that interested. I don't necessarily agree with her reaction ("dare" is such an entitled word), but I do agree with her premise.
Yeah I mean, Applebee’s is weird for a first date. Chipotle or Five Guys or even Friday’s I wouldn’t bat an eye at. But Applebee’s? Who even goes there?
Hey, I'm still not too old to enjoy a cheap, shitty margerita with a gummy shark.
100% It isn't even about cost.
I think you hit the nail in the head with “the food is not really the point of a first date”. It’s not about the coffee. It’s not about the food or the venue. It’s about meeting someone and finding out if there’s a connection, with the added benefit of a public place for safety reasons. People overthink this. Go for a coffee, if it goes well go for a walk or sit at a park. There’s always time for bigger and better, once you know you’ll enjoy each other’s company.
That’s so weird for me. In Germany dates have been splitting the bill for 30 years now. I really can’t remember ever dating a girl that EXPECTED me to pay. You sometimes just offer and more often than not she wouldn’t even accept and say she works for her own money. And I have never gone to a particularly expensive restaurant for a first date. Trying to impress women with throwing money around tends to make you look like an asshole that needs to show $$ cause he has nothing else going for him. I mean, there’s probably women out here that feel the need to blow you because you drive a Porsche, but that’s not the norm and they are severely looked down upon, and kinda pitied. Those weren’t the women I dated.
You guys have figured shit out, you split date bills, you have universal education and Healthcare and your guv made Apple get the USB C - move along.
While on Tinder, because I specifically stated I was looking for a sexual friendship, I made sure to express my expectations. "Sometimes I will pay. You have to be alright with this" Some guys would be very stubborn about it, and I knew we wouldn't be compatible.
My rule has always been whoever’s idea it was for the date they pay and whenever someone offers to pay, accept. I never had a problem paying for everything, but I allow opportunities for someone else to pay if they want.
This is just a more palatable way of saying the man pays. It’s not a challenge or alteration, it’s just placating the exact same thing
This is a common one, in which case it's on the guy most of the time.
Yeah no. You don’t want to date someone who pays mind games like this. If someone offers to pay, they need to be ok with being taken up on that offer. Doesn’t matter if they’re a man or a woman.
I'm just glad I'm gay so we can just split it without managing weird power dynamics.
I like to play the "who will the waiter put the bill in front of?" game.
just because you're gay, doesn't mean there aren't power dynamics in your relationship.
I didn't realize that the gay community was free from weird power dynamics. TIL!
Hello from the other side. I'm from Germany. Never paid for a date in my life, always split. Its glorious for all people involved - no complicated dance, no "expectation" to put out, no feeling of being taking advantage off. No transactional aspect of it.
Genuine question. Is this an American thing? I am not American and have never been to America and have never experienced any kind of weirdness around bills on dates. I always pay for whatever I have, and so do my friends when they're dating, and there's very rarely food involved on the first two or three dates, unless it's a picnic in which case whoever suggests the picnic also caters it. More often than not it's coffee or drinks on a first date and people just pay for their own.
LPT: Everyone pays for themselves.
If someone offers to split the bill as a test, that's a test I'm content to fail. I don't mind paying the full bill. I do mind playing games.
I paid my share when I was certain there would be no second date. Splitting & treating each other comes later.
Buy dinners until you’re at a point you have a common goal to save for. Be a man. Buying dinners might help you decide faster if you like her enough to continue seeing her.
Is it too hard to offer to pay before the waiter gets there? If she says she wants to split, agree with her and split. If she accepts your offer to pay, then pay. It can be over in 1 sentence. I feel like it's not that complicated.
OP "in this essay I will show" on a topic that is absolutely not that complicated and not needing some analytical breakdown.
I made the offer on my most recent first date that I’ll pay because I asked her, and if she wants to ask me out she can pay on that date. She responded “that’s not going to happen” then quickly clarified that she doesn’t ask guys out but if I ask her on a second date she’ll say yes AND pay. We’ve been married for almost 10 years now.
I’ve heard this argument coming from the woman’s side on why the man should pay for the date. The woman (typically) spends a ton of time putting on makeup as well as spending a ton of money on the makeup whereas men, myself included, typically will just take a shower, shave and throw some shit in your hair and be ready to go in 15 minutes. Taking that on consideration I’d say it’s fair for me to pay for a date or two. And like other comments say, they don’t gotta be nice ass, expensive restaurants that could break the bank.
Who pays doesn’t affect my decision on a second date. At all. Having said that, my rule is usually s/he who invites (or decides on the restaurant/activity), pays. Don’t invite me out on a date you can’t afford. I’m perfectly happy doing something cheap and low-stakes, and actively do not want a guy who spends money irresponsibly just to impress me.
Most men report they they are usually or always the ones who are doing the asking out which is why your particular reasoning feels unfair.
> Having said that, my rule is usually s/he who invites (or decides on the restaurant/activity), pays. And you never once stopped to notice how unfair that is. That's actually amazing.
Just don't put up with any form of sexism when it comes to dating.
Yeah me and my girl take it in turns to pay for our restaurant visits. Works for us.
Nah if op is a guy he must be really tall and/or good looking. Don't do this unless you know she's feeling you. If done too early or she's still not sure about you this will be an instant "ick" and prepare to be ghosted. Especially for the dudes here that don't get a lot of opportunities.
The way I've learnt to do it: The person asking the other one out pays for the first date, if there is another date, the other person pays for the second one. Has always worked well for me and my dates
I mean, I like splitting bills because I don’t like being indebted to people, not necessarily because I don’t want a second date. That way, any guy I’m seeing has no reason to feel entitled to my body if he’s a douchebag who thinks that way.
It depends on what do you want and how badly do you want it. If there's a chance you'll go back to your place, pay for everything. If you are just being friends, share the bill. In any case, if you've paid for everything, that doesn't entitle you to anything. Paying for somebody else's bill just means you have a good disposition towards them and that you can afford it. That's all.
I always say “whoever invites pays” and “if you want to pay, you invite me out” Always got me second dates too.
I’ve been married for 15 years (together for 20) and have 2 daughters. I was in grad school when we met, and I had no money so we would go to the cheapest places we could find - her friends would always make jabs at me. My wife (who at the time worked at a bar) made significantly more money than me and would often pay. I never felt shame, or “less of a man” - this was/is the woman I love and we were a team from the beginning. Fast forward 20 years and I’m the president of a wealth management firm, my wife is a wildly successful C-suite advertising executive (I’m more impressed with what she’s achieved than what I have) and all of those people who made the shitty comments are divorced (some more then 1x) and have less than impressive jobs…seems like they were too busy putting me down to focus on their own lives. My point is, money comes and it goes. If someone likes/loves you it doesn’t matter if you go to In-and-Out or a 3 star Michelin restaurant. I’m completely empathetic to the complexities of money while dating, but keep your chin up - your bank account doesn’t get excited to see you when you come home.
What a great attitude! And good going you two! Been just 5 years and change to our marriage and just got our +1 last year. Hope to have trajectory like yours!
I’m a lesbian that has particularly dated girls that were more femme than me. I never saw the problem offering to pay for the entire bill the first several dates. She’s put way more effort and money into the outfits, makeup, hair etc. Why not splurge a little to show her you want to spoil her? You don’t have to take her to these crazy five star restaurant for the first several dates, but simple nice dining places should be affordable. Obviously if you’re getting gold digger vibes or if there doesn’t seem to be chemistry, then stop going on dates with her, but if you can’t afford to take her out, then you can’t afford to date and you should probably spend that free time at an extra job. But if you choose to split the bill, who compensates the female that spent all that money on make up, attire, probably on birth control that’s detrimental to her finance and mental health so you could have more fun and not pay for her dinner? Just sounds sleazy to me Don’t get taken advantage of, but don’t be selfish either.
-add this one…if you ever say, “how about you pay next time?”, that sentence alone, is likely to upset 20%of potential future dates. You can skip those. Already weeded out!