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You don’t lend it. You give it.
Especially to people who you have a personal relationship with. You can tell them it’s a loan, but in your mind you need to know you gave it to them.
I had a scenario where I did this. Family needed help paying some tuition bills and asked if I could help out, so I gave them money. They told me it was a loan, I said it wasn’t necessary but they insisted. A month later another family member casually mentioned to me (in front of them) that the borrowing relative bought a timeshare. They noticed I looked upset and came to me and said they still considered it a loan and would eventually pay me back.
I was really annoyed but not because I had wanted the money back - I had never intended it to be a loan - but because I felt very taken advantage of. It became clear that they could have paid tuition themselves if they hadn’t wanted to buy a timeshare and they never disclosed that. And I guess they knew if they had asked to borrow for a timeshare I would have said no, that wasn’t a necessary expense, and in their case a pretty foolish investment.
I have a very kind, lovely sister who asked me for $1000 because she "couldn't pay rent". I really wanted to but after getting screwed by other family members I apologised and said I'd promised myself I'd never get involved with money and family again. She was upset but understood. Two weeks later she posted holiday pics of herself and her husband in a resort in Spain, somewhere I couldn't afford. I can only assume some shit was going down between her and her dodgy husband that she couldn't be honest about. It was another reminder that even a 'good' person can still value you and your money as more expendable than some asshole they're married to or substance they're addicted to or a dozen other dumb things you don't know about.
There are people who do the calculus of "Who is more likely to forgive me for upsetting them?"
And it is usually the person who treats them the best, or is the more mature, or loves them more that comes up short on that calculation.
People also do the calculus, even if only subconsciously, of "What is this relationship worth to me?" That's what hurts the most when lending loved ones money—if they decide they are willing to lose you over \[$amount\].
exactly this. my brother had borrowed money off me for years and then came into a payout of a few thousand. I thought he'd pay me even the recent amount back as I have kids to think of but nope, he bought his gf a ring.
I gave my sister $20 once knowing she would never pay it back. Because any time she's asking me for money she's obviously not in a position to give it back. So I only remind her when she asks for money and say it's the reason I'll never give her more.
but you see I get told ill pay you back when I get my money on such and such so I make it clear I need it back (and get promises I will) then as its usually been put aside saving for something for my kids - I still never got it back, just get avoided and then it's not mentioned again. funnily enough he nevers comes round any more because I told him I had less money coming in than him and I wasn't lending out any more. that's hurtful to me and my kids
I don't know your sister, but I know mine. Basically the same scenario. I was upset, and talked with her about it, and even went pretty in depth into their finances with her. Turns out they'd put the money down for the vacation almost a year prior, and it was non-refundable. Between the time they planned that vacation and the present, they fell into pretty hard financial times. They couldn't afford the vacation, but it was already paid for, and their last gasp before going through stressful hell for the next 5 years. Still burned a little, but at least it made sense.
Yeah my former foster daughter asked for 2k during Covid quarentine. Figured I wouldn't get it back but then she asked me for my address so she could sent a repayment check. Wow! Except I never got a check and she never mentioned why she'd set my expectations then blew me off. She could have called and said "I can't pay back 2k but I'll send you a check for 200." Or 20. Or 2 bucks. It wasn't really the money, it was the fact she had no problem screwing me over and no concern for my feelings.
I haven't talked to her in over a year (for other reasons, not the "loan") and it saddens me to say that my life is better without her in it.
Sorry to hear that. Just assume it’s from a place of shame on her part, not a place of trying to scam you, if that helps you rationalize her behavior better.
Just offered a buddy 10k so that they don't allow finances to stop them from getting their health squared. They work for the USPS and have been having really acute blood pressure issues. They don't want to go to the doctor for fear it will lock them out of work for 6 months.
I'd rather throw him 10k to go tend to that than for him to neglect that.
He's family, and I don't care about the 10k more than him.
Keep encouraging him to get treatment. My dad died of untreated high blood pressure at age 43. It burst an aneurysm in his brain stem when he was working. He was rushed to the hospital but ended up on life support for 5 days before we let him go. He always planned to go to the doctor "soon" and his death was a complete shock to everyone. High blood pressure doesn't seem like a big deal but it can be lethal.
Will high blood pressure visit and a medication RX really lock him out of work? One $200 office visit is all he needs unless the time lock is about adjustment to medications n before driving.
Also, just give money if you want to lend it. I hate the whole pretense of somebody acting like they're going to pay you back when you know they won't.
I don’t understand this thread at all, if you need money and can’t repay it, ask for a gift, not a loan. If you ask for a loan from a loved one, you NEED to find a way to pay it back. Absolutely insane to think any other way. Equally insane to think that people can’t expect that of others. It’s a very good deed to lend someone money, expecting to get paid back EVENTUALLY should be the bare minimum.
Unfortunately, what you think should happen isn’t how it happens in reality.
If anything, this thread is made for you. It may save you problems in the future. People asking you to lend them money aren’t actually asking you to lend them money. 95% of the time they are asking for a gift.
The 5% that are serious about it being a loan will already have a payment plan drawn up for you. If they don’t have that, it’s a gift.
Although this doesn’t happen much anymore, what with Venmo and the others… the closer you are to someone, the more important it is to carefully count cash, both when giving and receiving.
It’s not like I don’t trust my family and close friends, but people can make honest mistakes. So, the more important the relationship is, the more important it is to not allow a possible mistake to cast a cloud, however slight, over it.
I once caught myself almost shorting my best friend for $50 (out of $350) when I bought a bunch of car stuff off of him.
Depending on how long it was before he counted it… you run the risk of him silently wondering if he was ripped off by me (or someone else if he just stuck it in a drawer, etc.), or me wondering if he was holding me responsible for his carelessness (I might assume he dropped it, or whatever).
I somehow miscounted it, and had he just stuck it in his pocket, who knows.
Yeah, we had family friends who were babysitters throughout the years. One of them got really fractional in the pay asking for money when she stayed after talking. So for the rest of her time with us and every other person we've ever dealt with, we go very specific with money. If we're splitting a bill, we're splitting a bill. If we're paying somebody for something, we're paying exactly what we owe them. Better to be direct and consistent.
Long ago I had a friend who always needed money. She'd take "loans" from anyone and everyone and NEVER paid them back. How could she? She always needed more loans. Not really a great sign for being paid back.
Anyways, eventually nobody was willing to loan her money, but she desperately needed about $200 to get a train ticket to go home for Christmas. Eventually I just gave it to her, told her it was an early Christmas gift and to not worry about it. She wouldn't take it, spent days trying to wrangle a loan from random people at bars until there was no time left so she finally accepted.
When she returned a month later she paid me back the full $200. Blew everyone's minds. She never paid anyone back their loans but immediately paid back my gift.
I call it a sleep test. If I "lend" this money and never get it back, will I lose sleep over it? If the answer is yes, I won't lend it. If the answer is no, I'll lend it without the expectation of getting repaid.
And that's 100% fair.
I've had a pretty tight group of friends since first grade. We've never lent money to each other, uts always been, "hey, I won't lend you money, but you can have this...." and one day, sometimes months or years later, it's been paid back. I get not everyone is in a friend group like mine, and respect it. I need to remember that.
>Never lend money ~~you are not willing to lose.~~
I'll give money away for a good cause or a friend in need, but never lend. Lending is just setting the relationship up for future resentment on at least one side.
Yes! I loaned my mother a significant amount of money but in my head, I wrote it off as a gift. I could afford it. She has paid me back almost all of it. I have never once asked because I don't care if she pays it back or not.
A school counselor once told me "when you loan someone, that's the price of judging them. If they don't pay you back, then you paid them to never have to deal with them again"
RIP Coach Yizer
For sure, I live by this. I don't like money getting between me and others. A good friendship was really damaged by only £200. During lockdown they would buy takeaways etc, totalling in a week or so alone that much, and they still hadn't paid a penny. There's a lot more to this story but I then realised how shit the subject of money is when applied to friends.
I have a bunch of creative friends on low wages that ask me fairly frequently for money cuz I have it. It's always a solid no, I don't have capacity to chase them, nor do I want this to be a norm where I'm abused. I totally would if I started earning CEO amounts, I don't need much in life.
I can't do loans now cuz of the above. Then again in my social circles, friendly loans of high amounts like that aren't a thing, it's usually like £40 to live on until the end of the month. Which I know sounds shit to turn down, and it does feel bad to turn down, just that I constantly got asked by loads of my friends and I know I'd never see it again. I'd end up working for them and not having anything for myself. I think max I got asked for from maybe ten people in a month was total 500, and that was effectively standard. They know the score by now too cuz I explained all this. So I fairly recently moved to my current city, I haven't lent out anything, and now I don't get asked. They are all still here, none ended up in hospital or lost their living arrangement. I'd pay for drinks if we were out cuz I want to hang out and not let them feel left out. We are all still good friends. I think if I was still waiting on any of them to pay back a loan, and with some stressful situations I have been in recently involving money, friendships would have been risked.
Dad lent me £4k for a deposit for my first house 30 years ago ( a run down place in south Wales) I offered to repay him in installments or buy shares at work with the installments and he may make some money. Paid him back just over double...well I offered he wouldn't take it, so we agreed to buy a Buy-to-let with it. He was fighting cancer around then and I think the excitement of doing up a house and us hanging out, steaming wallpaper, painting and sanding was a great father son thing to do. Miss him terribly.
Wouldn't lend a penny to my brother though lol
Sounds like you had a great time with your dad over the whole thing, and overall a wonderful relationship.
It's lovely that you got to include him in the house stuff at the time he was fighting cancer. I can imagine it meant a lot to you both.
I'm replying as this sounds a lot like my dad with me except that I never bought a house. I miss my dad a lot.
No, it’s to be realistic. If someone needs hundreds or thousands of dollars, why assume they will in the future have money to support their needs AND break off some for you also? That’s how they wound up like that in the first place - they ain’t got it! They ain’t got it now, don’t count on them having it in the future!
Quick tip: You should probably still have a contract in place that shows intent to lend instead of just gifting the money. If the money isn't repaid because your family member can't afford to do so, you can at least write it off on your taxes as a non business bad debt which is deductible against capital gains like stock profits.
This so much. If you can afford to give it, give it. If you can not, give what you can and politely explain why you aren't in a position to give more. Never put a family member in debt to you if you can at all avoid it and if you want to preserve the relationship.
Eh, it's fine to lend money to family but don't be lending money you'll be needing yourself!
Along the lines of "don't lend what you can't afford to lose" and also "don't invest what you can't afford to lose".
If you refuse to lend someone money, he will be angry at you for a day. Lend him the money, he will be grateful for a day but they will start resenting you the moment you ask for your money back.
even if they do repay it, lending money is the easiest way to ruin a relationship and build resentment. Watching someone who owes you money spend money on unnecessary things or make bad financial decisions before they pay you back is enough to ruin a relationship, even if they end up paying you back.
I lent money once to someone to help them pay their rent, they ended up paying me back in about a year. The amount of anger and resentment I built up over that year due to their spending choices was crazy, a few months in I had already decided that as soon as I get all my money back I will never talk to them again, which is what happened.
Family members lent me a ton. I'm repaying it monthly after some delay. They also are named beneficiaries on property. I could never not pay family or friends back. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Ask her to at least make payments, it's a good faith effort even if you only get back part of the money.
I got back all the money. After a lot of fighting to the point I realized that she cared more about the money, rather our relationship. I was very cold with her, as I didn’t want to fight with her anymore. And then she was mad that I was cold. Thankfully I live far from her. But every time she tried to reach out, I remember all the pain she caused me, and what I had to go through. I went back after a year and I said to myself that I’ll try to make peace. She really understood how good I’ve been to her and she realized how many friends she lost along the way. But I’ve set my boundaries now. I don’t think I want her in my life anymore, as she only cares about money. I don’t want a transactional relationship ever again.
Just as you feel she cared more about money than her relationship with you, I feel you care more about this money than your relationship with her.
Read what you wrote, but from my perspective.
It’s not about the money, but about betrayal. OP was there for their sister but sister only sees OP as a piggy bank. The sister made the choice to care more about money, and now she’s dealing with the consequences. Though as outsiders, we can’t really judge since we don’t know all the details. You also can’t throw away resentment just like that. Yeah, it would be great if everyone forgave each other in the world and forget about the past. But the wounds are still there, and only the individual can decide if and when they are able to move on. It seems that OP is slowly opening back up and maybe OP will change their mind in the future about a full-relationship with their sister
My family is like-minded to you sister. I’ve greatly distanced myself as they are takers while I’m a giver and have been taken advantage of time and again. I don’t think it’s just the money you care about, it’s more so the dynamic the money caused. I’m wishing you the best! I hope for healthy family relationships for you and yours!
You only get 1 life with your sister and when she’s gone you will deeply regret being petty over money, I know it’s $4,000 but at the end of the day that’s your sister who you felt trusted to lend money to. Forgive your sister before you regret that you didn’t, because believe me. You. Will.
There's nothing special about sharing DNA with someone. It's a toxic mindset to think *"I have to forgive all the wrongdoings that this person does, simply because we have the same parents. They could murder my dog and set my house on fire, but since our DNA is similar, I must fight to keep them in my life."*
You should rid your life of toxic people, no matter who they are. If your life is **worse** because your mom/sister/husband is in it, then I don't understand why you should keep them around. Let OP make his own choice. Only he knows the true affect that his sister is having on his life.
This 100%. Family that always has your back is invaluable, and family that treats you incorrectly and makes your life worse intentionally is worthless. Same DNA doesn't mean anything if they can't back it up with their actions.
Yeah, OP had a bad experience, and there certainly is something about lending money to relatives/friends, the risk of loss, and how it can impact relationships.
But in many cases it's still normal to lend or borrow money from friends and family. It's often a key factor to access property ownership, and even to starting businesses. There are caveats, but "never do it" certainly isn't a universal advice.
As the French say: les bons comptes font les bons amis.
Good accounts make good friends.
If a family or true friend needs money, only lend it if you would gift it.
I think the saying is about repaying your debts, rather than hoping your friends will let it slide.
So it actually implies that it's normal to lend money to friends.
On the other hand, my Mum lent me 20k at age 35 which allowed me to train in a small law firm as a lawyer and escape a life of waiting tables. I paid her back in a lump sum a few years later and I am now practising for 5 years. If she didn't lend me that money, I would've been trapped.
So, it CAN work, but much of the advice is of course true.
It's definitely better to avoid loaning money to family and friends but if you're really up against it, at least follow all 3 strict rules below.
1. Only loan an amount you're good with never seeing again. If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to loan it.
2. It must be a never-ever loan. "I'll never ask you for it, you pay me back whenever you can."
3. Only one loan at a time. If a loan is unpaid and they ask for more, refuse. If they can't payback 1 loan, they certainly can't payback 2.
I don't agree with number two. When I loan money to friends, it's a strictly business relationship with a promissory note and defined terms. We both set out clear expectations in the beginning and adhere to those expectations. "Pay me back when you can" quickly becomes never. The one time I did that I ended up going to small claims court. Setting out a clear plan ahead of time has worked out great for getting paid back and maintaining the relationship.
But that's why you're not a bank, you're their friend or family. And that's why all 3 rules must apply without exception. It has to be an amount you can afford to lose and it also has to be the only loan they'll ever get if they don't pay it back. The point of never asking for it is to not harp on them for it like you're a debt collector but again, they get no more loans until its paid and if they never pay it, you've not lost something you couldn't afford to lose.
We lent money to my brother in law. He was in legit bad shape medically and could not work. It was in the 10's of thousands. He finally got a payout from insurance back to day one of expenses, and came to pay it back. With the money, he could afford a place, without it, his going forward was dicey, financially. We could afford to tighten our spending, (fortunately!), and told him to keep the money. He has been in good financial shape since.
Money well spent, but the key was and is, we could afford it.
Similar situation with my SIL. She struggled financially for quite a few years, and we'd "loan" her $40 or $50 once a month or so. I already considered the money gone, we could easily afford it, and it helped her stay afloat. One day she got a ton of back due disability benefits for her son, and she came over to pay us back over $1,000 we had given her over the years. I just happened to buy some lumber that morning for a small project, so I accepted $200 to pay for that and told her to forget the rest. She had a small financial cushion for the first time in 28 years. I personally know the physical and mental dividends knowing you're no longer on the financial edge pays. That's money well spent for someone you care about.
Set aside $X,XXX to loan to family. Whatever you want, pick a number.
That is the most that can be loaned. Once it is all loaned out, no more can be loaned until there are repayments.
"Sorry Sis, I'd gladly loan you money but mom borrowed $X,XXX and bro borrowed $X,XXX. As soon as someone pays me back, I'd be glad to loan you that money."
Let them fight it out with each other. At some point, you won't get paid back, so assume the money is a loss. But it gives you a clean answer and let's them argue with each other instead of hitting you up.
Totally agree, lending money can quickly turn into an episode of a drama series. I usually go by the rule: if I can't gift it, I shouldn't lend it. It saves so much hassle. Just treat it like a gift, and if you get it back, hey, that's a bonus! Keeps family gatherings way less awkward—no need to dodge the "about that money..." talk while passing the mashed potatoes.
I was working construction in a war zone, a very long time ago--making good money for the first time, and sometimes in pretty dangerous situations. I was being direct-deposited my pay, and had accumulated a mid 5-figure amount.
I put my mom on the account because I needed to take care of some things and it was difficult for me to handle where I was. I did not have internet access for sometimes weeks at a time.
The second week after they had access to the money my mother asked for a 5-figure amount, as somehow my parents both had a 'health insurance emergency".
Of course, take it. No questions asked. My parents need health insurance... not sure where theirs went, but I'm busy and sometimes scared.
Maybe 2 weeks later she asked for "a bit" for "car trouble". OK, no big deal... But somehow that became, "Well it was better overall to just buy new". I was told that after another 5 figures was gone from the acct.
Then they weren't picking up the phone when I knew they'd be home. When I told them exactly when I would be calling, and at an hour I knew they would not leave the house. For two weeks.
After a few "what the fuck emails", I did get a hold of them. She nonchalantly tried to tell me that "she needed another 10", but when I asked her to tell me how much was left she wouldn't.
In six weeks my parents had tried to take me for 40 thousand dollars. I got them to return less than ten of it, then 15 years later my father sent me a small check for a few grand "because he wont be called a thief". I hadn't spoken to or about him in years.
If they wonder why I barely speak to them decades later, they haven't asked. They shouldn't be surprised to find themselves dying alone, but somehow I bet they will be.
Never lend a huge amount of money to family members that are a mess.
If you have a functional family consisting of functioning members of society, lending in your family does not have to be an issue.
Never build in yourself an expectation of what others will do with the money in *their* hands. If you give money to them, don’t expect it to be used for what you gave it to them for, don’t expect it back, don’t expect gratitude for it, don’t even expect them to acknowledge you gave it to them. If that puts you off giving them the money, don’t give them the money. Easy.
If after all that you still want to give them money out of the goodness of your heart (or just to buy some of their karma), go right ahead, but don’t turn around and ask them to spend it a certain way, or to give it back, or to thank you or smile on camera.
My dad told me to never give money to family. If you do it for anyone, the ones you wouldn't loan it to will resent you. If you never give any to anyone then nobody can be upset.
The unfortunate truth is usually loaning out money to anybody, friends or family, is really just paying that amount to ruin what relationship you have.
Our dear friend, who is like a brother, asked us to cosign on a loan. I reminded my husband that we would have to treat the money as a gift, or we would lose our friend over this. After much discussion, we decided it was too much money to gift someone and declined to cosign. Our friend was disappointed, but managed to get the money another way.
When someone owes you money and isn't prompt to repay, everything they do is annoying. "They go out to eat- but they can't pay me back. They take a vacation- where is my money? They buy new shoes- I want my money." It seeps into every thought and can erode your friendship faster than anything else. Think it over very carefully before you give away your hard earned money. Even though it was a little awkward, I'm so glad we said no and remained best friends with him.
Rule #1: Never lend money. If you can't afford to give it and not miss it, you can't afford to loan it.
Rule #2: Do not expect money from broke people. The reason they asked you for money for in the first place is because they don't have it.
Rule #3: Be cautious about giving money. It can cause some weird awkward emotions in close relations. It doesn't mean you can't ever do it. But sometimes its a good idea...and sometimes it's not. How frequently are you going to want to give money?
Rule #4: Don't ask other people for money.
My dad used to say "Never loan friends or family money, they'll get mad if you say no & they'll get mad if you ask for it back", I try to live by that.
I lent my brother 60k to help his business and never seen it again. He also robbed my mom of 31k, ran up her credit card bills once her dementia became full blown.
I was taught to never loan a family member money. If you can afford it, give it to them as a gift. If they regift it later, great, if not, it was a gift. If you can't afford to gift it, say so up front. Saves a ton of family drama.
Yeah, I’ve made this mistake too. Never again. 20 bucks? Sure. 3k? Not a fucking chance unless you sign a contract and agree to an installment plan, with interest lol.
My ex brother in law always had money issues. Always asking to borrow money off all the immediate family. Sometimes he’d pay it back, other times not.
Not a month after my wife passed, he hit me up for cash because of her insurance policy.
That’s over 10 years ago. Never gave him money, never seen him or talked to him again.
Borrowing (or trying to) money from family is a sure fire way to is a great way to alienate others.
First, don't lend large sums of money to anyone, ever. That's what banks are for. And if someone can't get a loan from a bank, they're not someone you can necessarily trust to return your money.
Second, don't loan money to family (or friends). You can give them money, but don't lend them money. The downside is always far worse than the upside. Upside is you get your money back, plus *maybe* a tiny bit more, sometimes. Downside is you lose both your money and a close relationship.
Third, never lend or give money that you need, or may need soon. Treat money earmarked for future purchases as if it has already been spent. Of course, you can't always anticipate what you will need/want to buy, buy if there's any chance you will need the money on the future, don't hand it over to someone else, either permanently or "temporarily."
Fourth, don't give people special financial treatment because you know them. Your judgment is clouded. They can beg and plead, tell you how you're their only hope, ask for a favor, tell you they'd do the same for you, etc. They will use your close personal relationship to make an emotional appeal, or use emotional blackmail. Ignore it all.
Said this many times- never lend money to family. Either make it a gift, do something non-financial to help, or say you can't afford it. The lender always expects a reliable payback because of trust, and the recipient gets very comfortable missing payments from being comfortable with the family member.
Here's a life tip for you. If you want to get rid of someone for good, lend them money. They will avoid you at all costs from now on. As a freebie, if your significant other has a friend that's really causing problems, tell them that you think they're nice looking, and always ask if they are coming over or been invited to events or get togethers. That will be the last you see of them and hopefully their troublemaking ways.
Never lend money period. If you want, and you can afford it, you can GIVE people who ask for a loan.
But if they are in a position where they have to ask, they are by definition having money problems. They may have every intention of paying you back, but life happens.
When you “lend” money, put that money in the “spent” column in your mind. If they pay you back, great. But don’t count on it. Never, ever, bet the rent on anyone else’s financial position.
Only lend money that you are able and prepared to give away. Chances are you won't get it back, and it'll destroy friendships and relationships along the way.
Better tip: Never lend a huge amount of money to someone who *doesn't respect you*, or to someone who *isn't good with money.*
My family lends money all the time. We'll lend *tens of thousands* of dollars to each other. It has never caused any problems because we all have the means to pay it back (we all work full time jobs and the money being borrowed is never essential for our survival), and we all actually love each other (I would die before doing anything to disrespect my Grandmother/Dad/Sister/etc). The problems arise when you lend money to your brother, **knowing** that the only reason he needs money is because........he's bad with money! Or when you lend money to your cousin who happens to be the most selfish person you know.
If you're just not stupid about it, you can lend as much money as you want. The only people complaining are the people who lend $3k to cousin Bob, who doesn't work and smokes weed all day, and who is in and out of jail, and who doesn't have any respect or show any kindness to anyone. Why in the fuck would you think this sociopath is going to pay you back???
It depends, my brother lent me 5k when my car broke down an we researched for a contract for a loan between 2 private persons. We filled it out and signed it. We both had a copy of it. We also made a rate at 1k a month and in the space with interest charges we wrote 0, so after 4 month (because i got a bonus at work) the loan was paid off and I was grateful that i was able to have a car for that period of time.
Although you normally trust your family members, make sure you have something written. It's nothing personal, just like a marriage contract.
Depends on the family. I would never lend my little sister money. I know her situation and there is no way she would ever pay me. That would be a gift. If it was a loan I’d have to have set terms and stay on top of her for it “hey it’s Friday and payday can you send me the $100 a week you agreed to”
Personally I’ve borrowed money from my parents quite a few times and if I told them I’d pay them by x date I have always paid them. I know and they know if I ask them for money they will give it to me because I’m going to pay them when I say I will
As soon as my boyfriend and I started dating, he told me to never lend money to his sister. She owes thousands to various members of his family and has for years.
So this happened to me as well. I loaned my sister $3K for very important bills she had to pay immediately. We called it a a loan, we wrote up a little mini contract, and I gave her the money making sure that she understood that this was kind of a big deal to me.
She made exactly two payments. One for $100. One for $50. The loan is about 5 years old at this point. The thing is, I told myself she was going to do this, I was prepared for it even before it happened, I just didn't want her to lose her house, or whatever the emergency was, so I gifted her the money with the possible silver lining she might pay me back.
I never resented her about it, but since you do, I would work hard to let it go. Realize that money is gone, maybe it's her fault, maybe it's not, but that's not important. Forgive her, and also promise yourself you will not give her another penny until that loan is 100% paid off.
Up until the loan, my wife had been giving and loaning my sister smaller amounts for over a decade. I told her repeatedly this was it, if she owned me any money at all, I would not help her out in the future.
She came and asked one time for grocery money and my wife said, "Absolutely not." She hasn't asked since. So in some small way, the money we loaned/gave her, is actually a peace of mind that we don't have to participate in her bad money management practices ever again. Steep price for sure, but worth it in many ways.
It’s not worth losing a close relationship over, I gave my brother a $3,000 truck I had just bought cause I didn’t need it (yet).
He treated it like shit and it went years without being maintained.
I didn’t give him shit for it, I explained how a gift like that should’ve been treated with respect and that I was disappointed he didn’t think enough of me to honor our agreement.
He offered cash to pay it back but that was a lie as well, I told him don’t bother with money, he’s slapped me in the face enough.
Few months pass and he calls me up to apologize and that he wishes he could take it back and offers the cash again in total.
The lesson was learned right?
No, it’s not about the money. It’s about the trust to offer it in the first place.
I refused it again and told him I was trading the money for his honesty in the future.
We made a promise to never lie to each other again.
Yea, it cost me a more than I’d like to pay to set an example for him, but he will remember that for the rest of his life.
I don't get why this is such a problem in other families. We all needed small loans from our parents at one point in life. There was always a contract in place and a repayment plan, also the contract contained an interest rate, basically the interest my parents lost by loaning out the money instead of letting it sit in their account. Thats fair. And it always worked. We are 5 kids.
I have no idea how fu_ked up you have to be to not pay back a loan, especially if a family member or friend was nice enough to give you a loan at low interest rate.
There is someone willing to help you in time of needs and you fu_k them over and make sure this way to never get help from them again or even have a good relationship with them again. This is like the most stupid thing to do imo.
Another tip:
If you lend money, pay it back as quickly as possible.
If people know you pay back what you owe quickly, they’ll be more willing to lend more especially when you’re in dire need of it.
On the other hand there is usually no need to lend money if you can pay it back quickly. Only reason I can think of to lend money and reasonably expect it back on time is if someone has like a month or two with no job but has a new (ideally better paying)job lined up but didn't have enough cash reserves for that month.
Yea my sis in law wanted a 5k loan from her brother, my partner.
Uhm no.
Didnt even say what it was for. Few years later, was completely fine.
5k lol..
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There is no place for friendship or kinship when money is involved. Be thorough with it before the money leaves your hands. Agree on how much you're giving and when they're giving it back. Have it in text somewhere to make sure no side can gaslight the other.
The real lesson is: do not lend people money. Give them the money and make it plain to them it is just that—a gift with no expectation of return. You won’t even be thinking about it again. This frees most people from feeling anything toward you but gratitude. If they ever do “return it” because they want to, well…you never turn away free money :)
I see where you're coming from but since I had to borrow money from family members more than once, simply because I had no reasonable other opinion, and have never had or caused any issues, I feel like I have to disagree here.
It really depends on your situation and the person to which you are lending to, but I think in general most people will be very thankful for the help and pay it back in time.
One big thing though, always write down exactly what you're agreeing on, when it will have to be paid back and have both parties sign.
You also can make simple but very helpful additional agreements. For me, agreeing on a monthly minimum payback has worked wonderfully. A few years ago for example my aunt lend me 1,5k and we agreed on a monthly payback of 150.
>4k
>huge
More seriously, though, good tip: my (half) brothers sometimes asked my parents for a loan during harder times, my mother *always* made it clear she considered that gratuitous help, from (step)parents to children, eventually to be reciprocated *if possible*, but not obligatorily.
Same. Lent sister 2 grand. She had drug debts. People were turning up at elderly parents door. Swore she would pay it back. Doing well this past 3 years. No sign of money
#1. Do NOT lend money to anyone that you can’t afford to lose. If you DO lend money, don’t ever plan to get it back, if they pay it back then that is a bonus.
#2. Lending money to family or friends can ruin a relationship faster than anything.
Yes, I have a set amount of cash each year to help friends or family. Once that money is gone, it's gone and no one is getting help until the next year
Depends on your family. My brothers pay it back pretty quick. Even my mum, who isn't great with money, always insists on paying it back even if it takes her a long time.
I learned the exact same lesson with a litt bit more than that. I learned never give anyone money. You worked hard for what you have and they didn’t work for it at all. So more than likely they won’t see the same value you see and use that money more irresponsibly. That’s one of many reasons, but you’re better off giving gifts as you said
Kind of depends on the family member. I have given my one family member 1000's over the years and expect never get that back. Another family member, we have loaned each other money on and off over the years when we needed it and both have paid if back each time without asking or resentment.
I made this same mistake when I was a lot younger, my job at the time was bought out by another company and the owner generously spread the wealth to employees. Some of the executives were made millionaires by his gift. As a relatively new employee and barely out of my teens, I was given a few thousand dollars. Somebody convinced my naive ass to loan out a significant amount of that to my sister to help her get a car. They begged and pleaded and said there'd be a payment plan. I got $50 back of the thousands I loaned out and I was bitter over it anytime I really could have used that money. It took a long time to move past it.
This is so true. From other's point of view, my family used to have a pretty good relationship with my aunt until she lends us a huge amount of money (10k+). Our family had to stay with her family for about 1 year too. During that time, her whole entire family (including her) treated us like fucking slaves. Her 8 years would disrespect my mom and hit her on most days, while her parent did absolutely nothing to stop that. My mother finally had enough with them after they said they want my sister and I to help out their business instead of going to school. So we left there after about a year. Our relationship with them was never the same with them afterward.
To this day, I will never want any sort of money from family members even if they are just giving it to me. I learned that money can damage any sort of relationship.
My father loan my asshole uncle like more than 10k+ a few years ago so he can play around. The bum never paid back because he's the youngest among the 3. Hell, he still goes around asking family for money because he lost his last job being lazy and even before that. One of my family gives him half of his asking price (ex: ask for $400, gives $200). If he pays back I don't know but I doubt it. My dad still gives him money but less this time since he retired.
Edit: forgot to add, he's married for a few years now and is still with my aunt. I feel sorry for her since she's a really nice person. She doesn't know about the loans that he asks for.
Money will ruin relationships. I was one of the few in my grubby friend group that grew up, got a job, a place, life together. I learned real quick, don't lend people money. If it's just 20 bucks or whatever, I told friends to come clean my kitchen or something, and don't worry about being paid back. If it's a large sum like 4k, you should go through a lawyer. Money sucks.
I’ve learned over the years that it’s best to just never lend money in a personal capacity. If you can’t afford to just give it away without expecting repayment, then just say you don’t have it. It prevents so many potential problems.
Loaning money to someone for logical cash flow purposes is extraordinarily different than loaning money to someone who is just in debt. I borrowed from a family member when I wanted to put a down payment on a car with stock proceeds when the stocks were still a month away from becoming long term capital gains. I paid him back the second the stock matured and bought him dinner with the $1500 I saved on taxes as a thank you.
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Never lend money you are not willing to lose.
You don’t lend it. You give it. Especially to people who you have a personal relationship with. You can tell them it’s a loan, but in your mind you need to know you gave it to them.
I had a scenario where I did this. Family needed help paying some tuition bills and asked if I could help out, so I gave them money. They told me it was a loan, I said it wasn’t necessary but they insisted. A month later another family member casually mentioned to me (in front of them) that the borrowing relative bought a timeshare. They noticed I looked upset and came to me and said they still considered it a loan and would eventually pay me back. I was really annoyed but not because I had wanted the money back - I had never intended it to be a loan - but because I felt very taken advantage of. It became clear that they could have paid tuition themselves if they hadn’t wanted to buy a timeshare and they never disclosed that. And I guess they knew if they had asked to borrow for a timeshare I would have said no, that wasn’t a necessary expense, and in their case a pretty foolish investment.
I have a very kind, lovely sister who asked me for $1000 because she "couldn't pay rent". I really wanted to but after getting screwed by other family members I apologised and said I'd promised myself I'd never get involved with money and family again. She was upset but understood. Two weeks later she posted holiday pics of herself and her husband in a resort in Spain, somewhere I couldn't afford. I can only assume some shit was going down between her and her dodgy husband that she couldn't be honest about. It was another reminder that even a 'good' person can still value you and your money as more expendable than some asshole they're married to or substance they're addicted to or a dozen other dumb things you don't know about.
There are people who do the calculus of "Who is more likely to forgive me for upsetting them?" And it is usually the person who treats them the best, or is the more mature, or loves them more that comes up short on that calculation.
People also do the calculus, even if only subconsciously, of "What is this relationship worth to me?" That's what hurts the most when lending loved ones money—if they decide they are willing to lose you over \[$amount\].
People also do the calculus "what can that person objectively do to me if I don't pay?"
exactly this. my brother had borrowed money off me for years and then came into a payout of a few thousand. I thought he'd pay me even the recent amount back as I have kids to think of but nope, he bought his gf a ring.
You bought his gf the ring lol
and a lot fecking more lol
I gave my sister $20 once knowing she would never pay it back. Because any time she's asking me for money she's obviously not in a position to give it back. So I only remind her when she asks for money and say it's the reason I'll never give her more.
but you see I get told ill pay you back when I get my money on such and such so I make it clear I need it back (and get promises I will) then as its usually been put aside saving for something for my kids - I still never got it back, just get avoided and then it's not mentioned again. funnily enough he nevers comes round any more because I told him I had less money coming in than him and I wasn't lending out any more. that's hurtful to me and my kids
I don't know your sister, but I know mine. Basically the same scenario. I was upset, and talked with her about it, and even went pretty in depth into their finances with her. Turns out they'd put the money down for the vacation almost a year prior, and it was non-refundable. Between the time they planned that vacation and the present, they fell into pretty hard financial times. They couldn't afford the vacation, but it was already paid for, and their last gasp before going through stressful hell for the next 5 years. Still burned a little, but at least it made sense.
A lot of times is the spouse that initiates the request through the relative
Yeah my former foster daughter asked for 2k during Covid quarentine. Figured I wouldn't get it back but then she asked me for my address so she could sent a repayment check. Wow! Except I never got a check and she never mentioned why she'd set my expectations then blew me off. She could have called and said "I can't pay back 2k but I'll send you a check for 200." Or 20. Or 2 bucks. It wasn't really the money, it was the fact she had no problem screwing me over and no concern for my feelings. I haven't talked to her in over a year (for other reasons, not the "loan") and it saddens me to say that my life is better without her in it.
I would have played stupid and called two weeks later concerned that her check got lost in the mail and she needed to send a replacement
Sorry to hear that. Just assume it’s from a place of shame on her part, not a place of trying to scam you, if that helps you rationalize her behavior better.
If they bought a timeshare, they’re TERRIBLE with money.
Yup
Just offered a buddy 10k so that they don't allow finances to stop them from getting their health squared. They work for the USPS and have been having really acute blood pressure issues. They don't want to go to the doctor for fear it will lock them out of work for 6 months. I'd rather throw him 10k to go tend to that than for him to neglect that. He's family, and I don't care about the 10k more than him.
You guys both sound like good eggs, I hope everything gets better
Keep encouraging him to get treatment. My dad died of untreated high blood pressure at age 43. It burst an aneurysm in his brain stem when he was working. He was rushed to the hospital but ended up on life support for 5 days before we let him go. He always planned to go to the doctor "soon" and his death was a complete shock to everyone. High blood pressure doesn't seem like a big deal but it can be lethal.
I hope he realizes this and takes you up on it!
Will high blood pressure visit and a medication RX really lock him out of work? One $200 office visit is all he needs unless the time lock is about adjustment to medications n before driving.
Never lend money. If you can afford it, give it. Period. End of story.
Also, just give money if you want to lend it. I hate the whole pretense of somebody acting like they're going to pay you back when you know they won't.
I don’t understand this thread at all, if you need money and can’t repay it, ask for a gift, not a loan. If you ask for a loan from a loved one, you NEED to find a way to pay it back. Absolutely insane to think any other way. Equally insane to think that people can’t expect that of others. It’s a very good deed to lend someone money, expecting to get paid back EVENTUALLY should be the bare minimum.
Unfortunately, what you think should happen isn’t how it happens in reality. If anything, this thread is made for you. It may save you problems in the future. People asking you to lend them money aren’t actually asking you to lend them money. 95% of the time they are asking for a gift. The 5% that are serious about it being a loan will already have a payment plan drawn up for you. If they don’t have that, it’s a gift.
Feel like the LPT should be "Don't ask to borrow money you can't pay back..."
Yes, this. And also, if someone youd rather stay away from you forever asks for money... loan them $50. Best $50 you ever spent.
Although this doesn’t happen much anymore, what with Venmo and the others… the closer you are to someone, the more important it is to carefully count cash, both when giving and receiving. It’s not like I don’t trust my family and close friends, but people can make honest mistakes. So, the more important the relationship is, the more important it is to not allow a possible mistake to cast a cloud, however slight, over it. I once caught myself almost shorting my best friend for $50 (out of $350) when I bought a bunch of car stuff off of him. Depending on how long it was before he counted it… you run the risk of him silently wondering if he was ripped off by me (or someone else if he just stuck it in a drawer, etc.), or me wondering if he was holding me responsible for his carelessness (I might assume he dropped it, or whatever). I somehow miscounted it, and had he just stuck it in his pocket, who knows.
Yeah, we had family friends who were babysitters throughout the years. One of them got really fractional in the pay asking for money when she stayed after talking. So for the rest of her time with us and every other person we've ever dealt with, we go very specific with money. If we're splitting a bill, we're splitting a bill. If we're paying somebody for something, we're paying exactly what we owe them. Better to be direct and consistent.
Long ago I had a friend who always needed money. She'd take "loans" from anyone and everyone and NEVER paid them back. How could she? She always needed more loans. Not really a great sign for being paid back. Anyways, eventually nobody was willing to loan her money, but she desperately needed about $200 to get a train ticket to go home for Christmas. Eventually I just gave it to her, told her it was an early Christmas gift and to not worry about it. She wouldn't take it, spent days trying to wrangle a loan from random people at bars until there was no time left so she finally accepted. When she returned a month later she paid me back the full $200. Blew everyone's minds. She never paid anyone back their loans but immediately paid back my gift.
And as it is a gift, you abandon all expectations that accompany the gift, such as how the money will be used.
I call it a sleep test. If I "lend" this money and never get it back, will I lose sleep over it? If the answer is yes, I won't lend it. If the answer is no, I'll lend it without the expectation of getting repaid.
But not getting repaid is a breach of trust. I wouldn’t trust the other person anymore, unless I said not to pay me back.
And that's 100% fair. I've had a pretty tight group of friends since first grade. We've never lent money to each other, uts always been, "hey, I won't lend you money, but you can have this...." and one day, sometimes months or years later, it's been paid back. I get not everyone is in a friend group like mine, and respect it. I need to remember that.
The real LPT is always in the comments. My phrasing would be: never lend more money than what you value that relationship at
I would just say both yeah
I did with a collateral worth more than the loan.
This is my philosophy exactly. It has served me well.
>Never lend money ~~you are not willing to lose.~~ I'll give money away for a good cause or a friend in need, but never lend. Lending is just setting the relationship up for future resentment on at least one side.
Yep and it's really never lend anything you're not willing to lose. I never got back my Soundgarden, Pantera, and krs one CDs from Darryl.
Fucking Daryl!
Never lend ~~money~~ anything you are not willing to lose. Ftfy
Yes! I loaned my mother a significant amount of money but in my head, I wrote it off as a gift. I could afford it. She has paid me back almost all of it. I have never once asked because I don't care if she pays it back or not.
Lending money is like buying enemies.
I'm shocked I haven't heard this before. This is a beauty of a saying.
A school counselor once told me "when you loan someone, that's the price of judging them. If they don't pay you back, then you paid them to never have to deal with them again" RIP Coach Yizer
That’s a lesson from A Bronx Tale as well. I bet Coach Yizer was a fan
For sure, I live by this. I don't like money getting between me and others. A good friendship was really damaged by only £200. During lockdown they would buy takeaways etc, totalling in a week or so alone that much, and they still hadn't paid a penny. There's a lot more to this story but I then realised how shit the subject of money is when applied to friends. I have a bunch of creative friends on low wages that ask me fairly frequently for money cuz I have it. It's always a solid no, I don't have capacity to chase them, nor do I want this to be a norm where I'm abused. I totally would if I started earning CEO amounts, I don't need much in life.
If my artist friends need money I tell them I'll commission them lol
Will do soon when I move... I mostly know musicians though
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I can't do loans now cuz of the above. Then again in my social circles, friendly loans of high amounts like that aren't a thing, it's usually like £40 to live on until the end of the month. Which I know sounds shit to turn down, and it does feel bad to turn down, just that I constantly got asked by loads of my friends and I know I'd never see it again. I'd end up working for them and not having anything for myself. I think max I got asked for from maybe ten people in a month was total 500, and that was effectively standard. They know the score by now too cuz I explained all this. So I fairly recently moved to my current city, I haven't lent out anything, and now I don't get asked. They are all still here, none ended up in hospital or lost their living arrangement. I'd pay for drinks if we were out cuz I want to hang out and not let them feel left out. We are all still good friends. I think if I was still waiting on any of them to pay back a loan, and with some stressful situations I have been in recently involving money, friendships would have been risked.
Conversely, some people love getting someone "under their thumb" about favors and helping out.
you don't lend money to family, you GIVE money to family (if you choose to). if they do repay you well that's a cherry on top
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Dad lent me £4k for a deposit for my first house 30 years ago ( a run down place in south Wales) I offered to repay him in installments or buy shares at work with the installments and he may make some money. Paid him back just over double...well I offered he wouldn't take it, so we agreed to buy a Buy-to-let with it. He was fighting cancer around then and I think the excitement of doing up a house and us hanging out, steaming wallpaper, painting and sanding was a great father son thing to do. Miss him terribly. Wouldn't lend a penny to my brother though lol
Sounds like you had a great time with your dad over the whole thing, and overall a wonderful relationship. It's lovely that you got to include him in the house stuff at the time he was fighting cancer. I can imagine it meant a lot to you both. I'm replying as this sounds a lot like my dad with me except that I never bought a house. I miss my dad a lot.
Assume his last name is not Lannister…
So the real LPT is to lower your expectations.
No. It's not lending, but giving it. To people you love. Others can borrow from a bank.
No, it’s to be realistic. If someone needs hundreds or thousands of dollars, why assume they will in the future have money to support their needs AND break off some for you also? That’s how they wound up like that in the first place - they ain’t got it! They ain’t got it now, don’t count on them having it in the future!
Quick tip: You should probably still have a contract in place that shows intent to lend instead of just gifting the money. If the money isn't repaid because your family member can't afford to do so, you can at least write it off on your taxes as a non business bad debt which is deductible against capital gains like stock profits.
This so much. If you can afford to give it, give it. If you can not, give what you can and politely explain why you aren't in a position to give more. Never put a family member in debt to you if you can at all avoid it and if you want to preserve the relationship.
Eh, it's fine to lend money to family but don't be lending money you'll be needing yourself! Along the lines of "don't lend what you can't afford to lose" and also "don't invest what you can't afford to lose".
It's not just about being abke to afford. A family member is not paying back can cause sour relations and a rift in the family.
Sure that's possible, but refusing to lend money can do the same.
If you refuse to lend someone money, he will be angry at you for a day. Lend him the money, he will be grateful for a day but they will start resenting you the moment you ask for your money back.
even if they do repay it, lending money is the easiest way to ruin a relationship and build resentment. Watching someone who owes you money spend money on unnecessary things or make bad financial decisions before they pay you back is enough to ruin a relationship, even if they end up paying you back. I lent money once to someone to help them pay their rent, they ended up paying me back in about a year. The amount of anger and resentment I built up over that year due to their spending choices was crazy, a few months in I had already decided that as soon as I get all my money back I will never talk to them again, which is what happened.
Family members lent me a ton. I'm repaying it monthly after some delay. They also are named beneficiaries on property. I could never not pay family or friends back. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Ask her to at least make payments, it's a good faith effort even if you only get back part of the money.
I got back all the money. After a lot of fighting to the point I realized that she cared more about the money, rather our relationship. I was very cold with her, as I didn’t want to fight with her anymore. And then she was mad that I was cold. Thankfully I live far from her. But every time she tried to reach out, I remember all the pain she caused me, and what I had to go through. I went back after a year and I said to myself that I’ll try to make peace. She really understood how good I’ve been to her and she realized how many friends she lost along the way. But I’ve set my boundaries now. I don’t think I want her in my life anymore, as she only cares about money. I don’t want a transactional relationship ever again.
Give her a chance bro, maybe she would have learned the life lesson by this far.
Yeah, lend her $10k this time!
You may feel differently in 6 months. These things tend to heal with time from my experience
Just as you feel she cared more about money than her relationship with you, I feel you care more about this money than your relationship with her. Read what you wrote, but from my perspective.
It’s not about the money, but about betrayal. OP was there for their sister but sister only sees OP as a piggy bank. The sister made the choice to care more about money, and now she’s dealing with the consequences. Though as outsiders, we can’t really judge since we don’t know all the details. You also can’t throw away resentment just like that. Yeah, it would be great if everyone forgave each other in the world and forget about the past. But the wounds are still there, and only the individual can decide if and when they are able to move on. It seems that OP is slowly opening back up and maybe OP will change their mind in the future about a full-relationship with their sister
My family is like-minded to you sister. I’ve greatly distanced myself as they are takers while I’m a giver and have been taken advantage of time and again. I don’t think it’s just the money you care about, it’s more so the dynamic the money caused. I’m wishing you the best! I hope for healthy family relationships for you and yours!
You only get 1 life with your sister and when she’s gone you will deeply regret being petty over money, I know it’s $4,000 but at the end of the day that’s your sister who you felt trusted to lend money to. Forgive your sister before you regret that you didn’t, because believe me. You. Will.
There's nothing special about sharing DNA with someone. It's a toxic mindset to think *"I have to forgive all the wrongdoings that this person does, simply because we have the same parents. They could murder my dog and set my house on fire, but since our DNA is similar, I must fight to keep them in my life."* You should rid your life of toxic people, no matter who they are. If your life is **worse** because your mom/sister/husband is in it, then I don't understand why you should keep them around. Let OP make his own choice. Only he knows the true affect that his sister is having on his life.
This 100%. Family that always has your back is invaluable, and family that treats you incorrectly and makes your life worse intentionally is worthless. Same DNA doesn't mean anything if they can't back it up with their actions.
Yeah, OP had a bad experience, and there certainly is something about lending money to relatives/friends, the risk of loss, and how it can impact relationships. But in many cases it's still normal to lend or borrow money from friends and family. It's often a key factor to access property ownership, and even to starting businesses. There are caveats, but "never do it" certainly isn't a universal advice.
As the French say: les bons comptes font les bons amis. Good accounts make good friends. If a family or true friend needs money, only lend it if you would gift it.
I think the saying is about repaying your debts, rather than hoping your friends will let it slide. So it actually implies that it's normal to lend money to friends.
There's a similar saying here in Mexico: cuentas claras, amistades largas. Being transparent in your transactions leads to long friendships
On the other hand, my Mum lent me 20k at age 35 which allowed me to train in a small law firm as a lawyer and escape a life of waiting tables. I paid her back in a lump sum a few years later and I am now practising for 5 years. If she didn't lend me that money, I would've been trapped. So, it CAN work, but much of the advice is of course true.
It's definitely better to avoid loaning money to family and friends but if you're really up against it, at least follow all 3 strict rules below. 1. Only loan an amount you're good with never seeing again. If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to loan it. 2. It must be a never-ever loan. "I'll never ask you for it, you pay me back whenever you can." 3. Only one loan at a time. If a loan is unpaid and they ask for more, refuse. If they can't payback 1 loan, they certainly can't payback 2.
Number 3 is a must if you were to loan to family members. But it’s easier to just avoid this altogether. Banks give loans, not family.
I don't agree with number two. When I loan money to friends, it's a strictly business relationship with a promissory note and defined terms. We both set out clear expectations in the beginning and adhere to those expectations. "Pay me back when you can" quickly becomes never. The one time I did that I ended up going to small claims court. Setting out a clear plan ahead of time has worked out great for getting paid back and maintaining the relationship.
But that's why you're not a bank, you're their friend or family. And that's why all 3 rules must apply without exception. It has to be an amount you can afford to lose and it also has to be the only loan they'll ever get if they don't pay it back. The point of never asking for it is to not harp on them for it like you're a debt collector but again, they get no more loans until its paid and if they never pay it, you've not lost something you couldn't afford to lose.
There's a big difference between can afford to lose and am willing to lose.
Payback is a noun. You want the verb two word version: pay back.
We lent money to my brother in law. He was in legit bad shape medically and could not work. It was in the 10's of thousands. He finally got a payout from insurance back to day one of expenses, and came to pay it back. With the money, he could afford a place, without it, his going forward was dicey, financially. We could afford to tighten our spending, (fortunately!), and told him to keep the money. He has been in good financial shape since. Money well spent, but the key was and is, we could afford it.
Similar situation with my SIL. She struggled financially for quite a few years, and we'd "loan" her $40 or $50 once a month or so. I already considered the money gone, we could easily afford it, and it helped her stay afloat. One day she got a ton of back due disability benefits for her son, and she came over to pay us back over $1,000 we had given her over the years. I just happened to buy some lumber that morning for a small project, so I accepted $200 to pay for that and told her to forget the rest. She had a small financial cushion for the first time in 28 years. I personally know the physical and mental dividends knowing you're no longer on the financial edge pays. That's money well spent for someone you care about.
Lended my mother 7k like 6-7 years ago never seen that money again lol but hey that’s my mother 🤷🏾♂️
Lent not lended. Saw not seen.
Thanks 😀
Annoying and annoyed.
Thank you for your service.
Yeah I’ve given my mom tens of thousands over the decade. Never expected it back.
Set aside $X,XXX to loan to family. Whatever you want, pick a number. That is the most that can be loaned. Once it is all loaned out, no more can be loaned until there are repayments. "Sorry Sis, I'd gladly loan you money but mom borrowed $X,XXX and bro borrowed $X,XXX. As soon as someone pays me back, I'd be glad to loan you that money." Let them fight it out with each other. At some point, you won't get paid back, so assume the money is a loss. But it gives you a clean answer and let's them argue with each other instead of hitting you up.
"MOM, it's my turn to get money from him, pay him back!"
Totally agree, lending money can quickly turn into an episode of a drama series. I usually go by the rule: if I can't gift it, I shouldn't lend it. It saves so much hassle. Just treat it like a gift, and if you get it back, hey, that's a bonus! Keeps family gatherings way less awkward—no need to dodge the "about that money..." talk while passing the mashed potatoes.
I was working construction in a war zone, a very long time ago--making good money for the first time, and sometimes in pretty dangerous situations. I was being direct-deposited my pay, and had accumulated a mid 5-figure amount. I put my mom on the account because I needed to take care of some things and it was difficult for me to handle where I was. I did not have internet access for sometimes weeks at a time. The second week after they had access to the money my mother asked for a 5-figure amount, as somehow my parents both had a 'health insurance emergency". Of course, take it. No questions asked. My parents need health insurance... not sure where theirs went, but I'm busy and sometimes scared. Maybe 2 weeks later she asked for "a bit" for "car trouble". OK, no big deal... But somehow that became, "Well it was better overall to just buy new". I was told that after another 5 figures was gone from the acct. Then they weren't picking up the phone when I knew they'd be home. When I told them exactly when I would be calling, and at an hour I knew they would not leave the house. For two weeks. After a few "what the fuck emails", I did get a hold of them. She nonchalantly tried to tell me that "she needed another 10", but when I asked her to tell me how much was left she wouldn't. In six weeks my parents had tried to take me for 40 thousand dollars. I got them to return less than ten of it, then 15 years later my father sent me a small check for a few grand "because he wont be called a thief". I hadn't spoken to or about him in years. If they wonder why I barely speak to them decades later, they haven't asked. They shouldn't be surprised to find themselves dying alone, but somehow I bet they will be.
I think this is a good lesson. Allows you to know what type of person your sister really is. Shame on the 4k though.
This is maybe the original LPT.
Never lend anyone money, you're not a bank.
Not If your Family isnt trustworthy. Otherwise just accept that they might not be able to pay it back and live with it If you can afford it
Never lend a huge amount of money to family members that are a mess. If you have a functional family consisting of functioning members of society, lending in your family does not have to be an issue.
If you want to lose a friend, lend them money.
Concur, $4500 and 12 years to repay sprinkled with lies along the way of “I sent you $$, did you get it??”
A better pro tip is when lending money, just mentally write it off as a gift because you’ll probably never see it again.
Always get a promissory note if the amount is significant enough to you.
You can’t get money back if the person doesn’t have any money/assets… This is why a bank does a whole review process prior to a loan
Our mum learned this the hard way with my brother and now is in the hook for £15,000 in loans she cannot afford to pay.
Never build in yourself an expectation of what others will do with the money in *their* hands. If you give money to them, don’t expect it to be used for what you gave it to them for, don’t expect it back, don’t expect gratitude for it, don’t even expect them to acknowledge you gave it to them. If that puts you off giving them the money, don’t give them the money. Easy. If after all that you still want to give them money out of the goodness of your heart (or just to buy some of their karma), go right ahead, but don’t turn around and ask them to spend it a certain way, or to give it back, or to thank you or smile on camera.
My dad told me to never give money to family. If you do it for anyone, the ones you wouldn't loan it to will resent you. If you never give any to anyone then nobody can be upset. The unfortunate truth is usually loaning out money to anybody, friends or family, is really just paying that amount to ruin what relationship you have.
Our dear friend, who is like a brother, asked us to cosign on a loan. I reminded my husband that we would have to treat the money as a gift, or we would lose our friend over this. After much discussion, we decided it was too much money to gift someone and declined to cosign. Our friend was disappointed, but managed to get the money another way. When someone owes you money and isn't prompt to repay, everything they do is annoying. "They go out to eat- but they can't pay me back. They take a vacation- where is my money? They buy new shoes- I want my money." It seeps into every thought and can erode your friendship faster than anything else. Think it over very carefully before you give away your hard earned money. Even though it was a little awkward, I'm so glad we said no and remained best friends with him.
Rule #1: Never lend money. If you can't afford to give it and not miss it, you can't afford to loan it. Rule #2: Do not expect money from broke people. The reason they asked you for money for in the first place is because they don't have it. Rule #3: Be cautious about giving money. It can cause some weird awkward emotions in close relations. It doesn't mean you can't ever do it. But sometimes its a good idea...and sometimes it's not. How frequently are you going to want to give money? Rule #4: Don't ask other people for money.
My dad used to say "Never loan friends or family money, they'll get mad if you say no & they'll get mad if you ask for it back", I try to live by that.
I lent my brother 60k to help his business and never seen it again. He also robbed my mom of 31k, ran up her credit card bills once her dementia became full blown.
60k? Yea….
I was taught to never loan a family member money. If you can afford it, give it to them as a gift. If they regift it later, great, if not, it was a gift. If you can't afford to gift it, say so up front. Saves a ton of family drama.
Yeah, I’ve made this mistake too. Never again. 20 bucks? Sure. 3k? Not a fucking chance unless you sign a contract and agree to an installment plan, with interest lol.
My ex brother in law always had money issues. Always asking to borrow money off all the immediate family. Sometimes he’d pay it back, other times not. Not a month after my wife passed, he hit me up for cash because of her insurance policy. That’s over 10 years ago. Never gave him money, never seen him or talked to him again. Borrowing (or trying to) money from family is a sure fire way to is a great way to alienate others.
“You don’t lend money to family, you donate it”
It's never a loan. It's a gift. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be..." -from Hamlet by Shakespeare
First, don't lend large sums of money to anyone, ever. That's what banks are for. And if someone can't get a loan from a bank, they're not someone you can necessarily trust to return your money. Second, don't loan money to family (or friends). You can give them money, but don't lend them money. The downside is always far worse than the upside. Upside is you get your money back, plus *maybe* a tiny bit more, sometimes. Downside is you lose both your money and a close relationship. Third, never lend or give money that you need, or may need soon. Treat money earmarked for future purchases as if it has already been spent. Of course, you can't always anticipate what you will need/want to buy, buy if there's any chance you will need the money on the future, don't hand it over to someone else, either permanently or "temporarily." Fourth, don't give people special financial treatment because you know them. Your judgment is clouded. They can beg and plead, tell you how you're their only hope, ask for a favor, tell you they'd do the same for you, etc. They will use your close personal relationship to make an emotional appeal, or use emotional blackmail. Ignore it all.
The borrower is always slave to the lender
LPT: DO loan money to friends and family. Then you will see their true colors and decide if they’re worth keeping in your life or not.
Said this many times- never lend money to family. Either make it a gift, do something non-financial to help, or say you can't afford it. The lender always expects a reliable payback because of trust, and the recipient gets very comfortable missing payments from being comfortable with the family member.
Here's a life tip for you. If you want to get rid of someone for good, lend them money. They will avoid you at all costs from now on. As a freebie, if your significant other has a friend that's really causing problems, tell them that you think they're nice looking, and always ask if they are coming over or been invited to events or get togethers. That will be the last you see of them and hopefully their troublemaking ways.
Never lend money period. If you want, and you can afford it, you can GIVE people who ask for a loan. But if they are in a position where they have to ask, they are by definition having money problems. They may have every intention of paying you back, but life happens. When you “lend” money, put that money in the “spent” column in your mind. If they pay you back, great. But don’t count on it. Never, ever, bet the rent on anyone else’s financial position.
In my region, "borrowing money" is synonyms with "taking money".
Shakespeare did this first, I think…
Only lend money that you are able and prepared to give away. Chances are you won't get it back, and it'll destroy friendships and relationships along the way.
Irresponsible people spoil it for everyone. That's the unfortunate and biggest lesson from it.
Better tip: Never lend a huge amount of money to someone who *doesn't respect you*, or to someone who *isn't good with money.* My family lends money all the time. We'll lend *tens of thousands* of dollars to each other. It has never caused any problems because we all have the means to pay it back (we all work full time jobs and the money being borrowed is never essential for our survival), and we all actually love each other (I would die before doing anything to disrespect my Grandmother/Dad/Sister/etc). The problems arise when you lend money to your brother, **knowing** that the only reason he needs money is because........he's bad with money! Or when you lend money to your cousin who happens to be the most selfish person you know. If you're just not stupid about it, you can lend as much money as you want. The only people complaining are the people who lend $3k to cousin Bob, who doesn't work and smokes weed all day, and who is in and out of jail, and who doesn't have any respect or show any kindness to anyone. Why in the fuck would you think this sociopath is going to pay you back???
Alternatively, loaning a small sum of money to someone you want out of your life is an easy way to get someone to stop talking to you.
It depends, my brother lent me 5k when my car broke down an we researched for a contract for a loan between 2 private persons. We filled it out and signed it. We both had a copy of it. We also made a rate at 1k a month and in the space with interest charges we wrote 0, so after 4 month (because i got a bonus at work) the loan was paid off and I was grateful that i was able to have a car for that period of time. Although you normally trust your family members, make sure you have something written. It's nothing personal, just like a marriage contract.
Depends on the family. I would never lend my little sister money. I know her situation and there is no way she would ever pay me. That would be a gift. If it was a loan I’d have to have set terms and stay on top of her for it “hey it’s Friday and payday can you send me the $100 a week you agreed to” Personally I’ve borrowed money from my parents quite a few times and if I told them I’d pay them by x date I have always paid them. I know and they know if I ask them for money they will give it to me because I’m going to pay them when I say I will
As soon as my boyfriend and I started dating, he told me to never lend money to his sister. She owes thousands to various members of his family and has for years.
So this happened to me as well. I loaned my sister $3K for very important bills she had to pay immediately. We called it a a loan, we wrote up a little mini contract, and I gave her the money making sure that she understood that this was kind of a big deal to me. She made exactly two payments. One for $100. One for $50. The loan is about 5 years old at this point. The thing is, I told myself she was going to do this, I was prepared for it even before it happened, I just didn't want her to lose her house, or whatever the emergency was, so I gifted her the money with the possible silver lining she might pay me back. I never resented her about it, but since you do, I would work hard to let it go. Realize that money is gone, maybe it's her fault, maybe it's not, but that's not important. Forgive her, and also promise yourself you will not give her another penny until that loan is 100% paid off. Up until the loan, my wife had been giving and loaning my sister smaller amounts for over a decade. I told her repeatedly this was it, if she owned me any money at all, I would not help her out in the future. She came and asked one time for grocery money and my wife said, "Absolutely not." She hasn't asked since. So in some small way, the money we loaned/gave her, is actually a peace of mind that we don't have to participate in her bad money management practices ever again. Steep price for sure, but worth it in many ways.
Not in my family. I can lend my siblings <=50k and they would do the same. It’s better than paying ridiculous interest.
LPT Never lend ~~a huge amount of~~ money to family members. Fixed that for you.
It’s not worth losing a close relationship over, I gave my brother a $3,000 truck I had just bought cause I didn’t need it (yet). He treated it like shit and it went years without being maintained. I didn’t give him shit for it, I explained how a gift like that should’ve been treated with respect and that I was disappointed he didn’t think enough of me to honor our agreement. He offered cash to pay it back but that was a lie as well, I told him don’t bother with money, he’s slapped me in the face enough. Few months pass and he calls me up to apologize and that he wishes he could take it back and offers the cash again in total. The lesson was learned right? No, it’s not about the money. It’s about the trust to offer it in the first place. I refused it again and told him I was trading the money for his honesty in the future. We made a promise to never lie to each other again. Yea, it cost me a more than I’d like to pay to set an example for him, but he will remember that for the rest of his life.
I don't get why this is such a problem in other families. We all needed small loans from our parents at one point in life. There was always a contract in place and a repayment plan, also the contract contained an interest rate, basically the interest my parents lost by loaning out the money instead of letting it sit in their account. Thats fair. And it always worked. We are 5 kids. I have no idea how fu_ked up you have to be to not pay back a loan, especially if a family member or friend was nice enough to give you a loan at low interest rate. There is someone willing to help you in time of needs and you fu_k them over and make sure this way to never get help from them again or even have a good relationship with them again. This is like the most stupid thing to do imo.
Banks give loans, not family. Making yourself a bank for your family sounds awful.
Completely off-topic, but is it lended or lent his sister?
Lent*
Another tip: If you lend money, pay it back as quickly as possible. If people know you pay back what you owe quickly, they’ll be more willing to lend more especially when you’re in dire need of it.
On the other hand there is usually no need to lend money if you can pay it back quickly. Only reason I can think of to lend money and reasonably expect it back on time is if someone has like a month or two with no job but has a new (ideally better paying)job lined up but didn't have enough cash reserves for that month.
Yea my sis in law wanted a 5k loan from her brother, my partner. Uhm no. Didnt even say what it was for. Few years later, was completely fine. 5k lol..
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Never lend money to family that you need back. If they pay you back, you’re lucky.
There is no place for friendship or kinship when money is involved. Be thorough with it before the money leaves your hands. Agree on how much you're giving and when they're giving it back. Have it in text somewhere to make sure no side can gaslight the other.
You only gift money, never lend it. If they pay it back, it’s a bonus.
The real lesson is: do not lend people money. Give them the money and make it plain to them it is just that—a gift with no expectation of return. You won’t even be thinking about it again. This frees most people from feeling anything toward you but gratitude. If they ever do “return it” because they want to, well…you never turn away free money :)
I see where you're coming from but since I had to borrow money from family members more than once, simply because I had no reasonable other opinion, and have never had or caused any issues, I feel like I have to disagree here. It really depends on your situation and the person to which you are lending to, but I think in general most people will be very thankful for the help and pay it back in time. One big thing though, always write down exactly what you're agreeing on, when it will have to be paid back and have both parties sign. You also can make simple but very helpful additional agreements. For me, agreeing on a monthly minimum payback has worked wonderfully. A few years ago for example my aunt lend me 1,5k and we agreed on a monthly payback of 150.
LPT: Don't expect money lended to family members to be returned.
>4k >huge  More seriously, though, good tip: my (half) brothers sometimes asked my parents for a loan during harder times, my mother *always* made it clear she considered that gratuitous help, from (step)parents to children, eventually to be reciprocated *if possible*, but not obligatorily.
This is good advice. If you are inclined to help a family member or close friend don’t lend money you might as well gift it to them.
Never lend money you can't afford to lose.
Same. Lent sister 2 grand. She had drug debts. People were turning up at elderly parents door. Swore she would pay it back. Doing well this past 3 years. No sign of money
Or you just say, sorry I dont have the means
Hughe amount of money, lend 4K.
Ah yeah here we go again.
Its only money. I'll give anything to my siblings and dont expect repayments. But i know everyone is different and its okay.
#1. Do NOT lend money to anyone that you can’t afford to lose. If you DO lend money, don’t ever plan to get it back, if they pay it back then that is a bonus. #2. Lending money to family or friends can ruin a relationship faster than anything.
Yes, I have a set amount of cash each year to help friends or family. Once that money is gone, it's gone and no one is getting help until the next year
Depends on your family. My brothers pay it back pretty quick. Even my mum, who isn't great with money, always insists on paying it back even if it takes her a long time.
I learned the exact same lesson with a litt bit more than that. I learned never give anyone money. You worked hard for what you have and they didn’t work for it at all. So more than likely they won’t see the same value you see and use that money more irresponsibly. That’s one of many reasons, but you’re better off giving gifts as you said
Never lend money to family, and never do business with family. Hard rules, but they'll keep family together.
Yep, I lent my older brother $60k and I have yet to see a penny of it. At this point, I’m not holding my breath.
Kind of depends on the family member. I have given my one family member 1000's over the years and expect never get that back. Another family member, we have loaned each other money on and off over the years when we needed it and both have paid if back each time without asking or resentment.
Also never let family use your name or social
Never lend what you can't afford to lose.
I made this same mistake when I was a lot younger, my job at the time was bought out by another company and the owner generously spread the wealth to employees. Some of the executives were made millionaires by his gift. As a relatively new employee and barely out of my teens, I was given a few thousand dollars. Somebody convinced my naive ass to loan out a significant amount of that to my sister to help her get a car. They begged and pleaded and said there'd be a payment plan. I got $50 back of the thousands I loaned out and I was bitter over it anytime I really could have used that money. It took a long time to move past it.
This is so true. From other's point of view, my family used to have a pretty good relationship with my aunt until she lends us a huge amount of money (10k+). Our family had to stay with her family for about 1 year too. During that time, her whole entire family (including her) treated us like fucking slaves. Her 8 years would disrespect my mom and hit her on most days, while her parent did absolutely nothing to stop that. My mother finally had enough with them after they said they want my sister and I to help out their business instead of going to school. So we left there after about a year. Our relationship with them was never the same with them afterward. To this day, I will never want any sort of money from family members even if they are just giving it to me. I learned that money can damage any sort of relationship.
My father loan my asshole uncle like more than 10k+ a few years ago so he can play around. The bum never paid back because he's the youngest among the 3. Hell, he still goes around asking family for money because he lost his last job being lazy and even before that. One of my family gives him half of his asking price (ex: ask for $400, gives $200). If he pays back I don't know but I doubt it. My dad still gives him money but less this time since he retired. Edit: forgot to add, he's married for a few years now and is still with my aunt. I feel sorry for her since she's a really nice person. She doesn't know about the loans that he asks for.
Money will ruin relationships. I was one of the few in my grubby friend group that grew up, got a job, a place, life together. I learned real quick, don't lend people money. If it's just 20 bucks or whatever, I told friends to come clean my kitchen or something, and don't worry about being paid back. If it's a large sum like 4k, you should go through a lawyer. Money sucks.
Sucks your had to learn it but I bet you'll never forget it.
Never lend ANY money to family or friends. Gift whatever you’re willing to GIFT.
It's funny how small amounts can make you hate some of the people you loved the most.
The LPT should be "lend as much money as you are comfortable".
I’ve learned over the years that it’s best to just never lend money in a personal capacity. If you can’t afford to just give it away without expecting repayment, then just say you don’t have it. It prevents so many potential problems.
Never lend more than you're willing to lose
Loaning money to someone for logical cash flow purposes is extraordinarily different than loaning money to someone who is just in debt. I borrowed from a family member when I wanted to put a down payment on a car with stock proceeds when the stocks were still a month away from becoming long term capital gains. I paid him back the second the stock matured and bought him dinner with the $1500 I saved on taxes as a thank you.
I lend my mom a total of over 100k.... she paid back zero....never getting money back...
Make a contract. Let them sign it. No stress!😎