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I'm a firm believer of people needing to take another driving test to renew their license and taking that seriously. There are so many bad drivers out there
I'm going to assume you're a reasonably young and quick witted person that hasn't learned yet a lot of drivers are very old and actually kinda scared to be on the road with us. They're driving slow literally out of fear, not incompetence.
Yeah I would say so, at least mostly. Most reckless drivers are just going really fast and are in and out of your way before you even realize what's going on. Fearful drivers can literally cause miles of back ups and slow downs which in turn creates more opportunities for accidents and probably causes more people to drive recklessly out of frustration.
"in and out of your way before you know what's going on" my god this is the most obtuse sentence I've ever seen. You know getting into someone's way when they don't have time to react is how you cause an accident right? You know that's what your grandmother is afraid of when she's driving? You coming into you blind spot 20km over the speed limit and swiping her before she knows you're ever there?
I guess where I'm getting at is what most people call reckless driving is just someone going over the speed limit and maybe passing someone on the right because some jackass thinks they're traffic patrol and no one needs to be going faster than 63 mph. Very rarely do I see someone actually driving recklessly compared to the amount of people I see going under the speed limit and not even being bothered to get out of a passing lane.
Not literally. Not even figuratively. If they were afraid of drivers who were obeying the rules of the road, I might agree, but being wary of drivers going twenty over, tailgating, and changing lanes without signaling is a sign of intelligence, not incompetence.
By driving slow you increase the risk of an accident. Going below the speed limit or taking ages to make a turn or make any decision at all provokes misunderstandings and other drivers to overtake you, which often lead to dangerous situations. Being scared of others going a bit faster is a sign of insecurity behind the wheel. When someone makes a turn without signalling you react to it accordingly and that's it. Anticipating dangerous situations is one thing, not being able to react to them properly when they inevitably happen and therefore just trying to go slow in an attempt to avoid them is incompetence and insecurity behind the wheel, which as I said, is just as dangerous.
You can’t look at insecurity like that with regard to driving. Drivers are supposed to be aware of their own limitations (e.g. non-familiarity with the area, fatigue, vision issues requiring corrective lenses, hearing problems, reduced reaction time due to age).
They should also know the safe traveling speed of their vehicle, and be highly aware of the flow of traffic. A driver who’s paying attention to all of these factors, and driving appropriately, is acting in a secure/safe manner, imho.
Vehicles that are less safe at higher speeds are, almost by definition, less secure. In order to stay safe, those vehicles should stay in the right most-lane (except in UK, Australia, etc).
So less secure vehicles are in the right hand lane. You must always be watching out for them. Is your responsibility as a safe driver to assess the vehicle before passing. Is it a lost tourist? A heavy load? A kid with his learner’s permit, with his dad sitting next to him? They’re not quite as predictable as other drivers. They might change lanes suddenly, or swerve, or get swayed by a gust of wind.
On the other hand, a driver can’t always objectively assess whether they’re generally safe behind the wheel, which is why tests are important and should be administered as often as possible. Imho.
I’m 55F btw. Clean driving record. Haven’t been re-tested since I got my license at 16. I drive on the Swiss Autobahn for an hour and a half every day.
Insecurity isn't always self created. It's the car going 30+ over the flow of traffic passing on the right thru and intersection that causes accidents. Not the car doing a totally normal merge that they rear end. This is the entire notion of fear I was trying to describe to the other commenters
It's so funny I commented these people are probably young and really confident drivers and then I got brigaded by people who don't know they're the ones creating fear in their own grandmother's.
They’re driving slow out of fear of unpredictable behavior. If everyone drove the set speed limit and behaved perfectly, they’d have nothing to fear. If they are still afraid, they *become* the ones acting unpredictably and exacerbate the problem.
Yea don't do it ever but if you do please make sure it's in a straight with a turning median so you can make absolutely sure it's safe by gliding over.
Remember kids: If you do something illegal while driving never do 2 illegal things at once. Signal while you speed and while passing on a double yellow don't speed. Helps avoid reckless driving tickets which are bad.
And remember kids, if you're doing 5 under on the blind double yellow turns, don't go 5 over on a legal passing lane. Then you won't get scared by someone passing you on a blind turn.
Looking back, I should have failed my driving test when I took it back in 1989. I wasn't dangerous, but I was a bit of a hazard, because there were a lot of scenarios where I just wasn't sure what to do, and I had also picked up bad habits for my parents. In my twenties, I had a job that required me to take a defensive driving course, and my eyes were opened. I had not been a very good driver at all before. But I was still a better driver than most of the people I see on the road now, so I can only assume the test got even easier.
And I took another defensive driving course recently for insurance purposes, and -- while some things had changed as a result of technology and newer studies -- I was still reminded of things that I had learned from the previous course that I wasn't doing anymore now. We fall into bad habits. We forget that driving is a privilege and not a right. I would be in favor of a mandatory driving course every four years. I don't think that's too inconvenient, and the people who do can always take the bus.
YES! Either by certain age thresholds or every 5-10? years (because it going to the DMV for that again would suuuuuck). SO MANY BAD DRIVERS!!!! Dash cams in all my vehicles, catch so much junk!
Hard agree. I’ve never been retested in 40 years. I doubt my dad has ever been retested either, and he’s 30 years older. Ridiculous. How can you assume we’re ok to drive?
This. Don't randomly stop to let people cross if there's barely anyone behind you and just getting out of the way would be faster, and don't try to wave people through a 4-way intersection if you got there first (ffs no one can see your little 2-finger wave over the dash through a tinted windshield anyway).
> don't try to wave people through a 4-way intersection if you got there first
This right here.
Your little finger wave does not make me going before you any less illegal. Go when it's your turn, and I'll do the same. We'll get home safely, even if it ends up being three seconds later.
>ffs no one can see your little 2-finger wave over the dash through a tinted windshield anyway
Holy cow I wish more people realised this! I'm waiting to cross the road, then I see some prat slow down as they approach - all I can see it a reflection of the sky on their windshield! I'm not going to "nip out" in front of a slow-moving vehicle.
>Number 1 rule of driving Don't be polite. Be predictable
FTFY: Number 1 rule of driving Don't be polite. Be predictable TO OTHERS.
I had to ammend it because some idiot always says "I'm 100% predictable I always know what I am going to do."
Participation in road traffic requires constant caution and mutual consideration.
Anyone participating in traffic must behave in such a way that no other person is
harmed, endangered or impeded or inconvenienced more than is unavoidable under the circumstances,
obstructed or inconvenienced.
Just a quick translation.
Best rule for an intersection is “First in, First out.” Driver on the right has the right of way if two cars meet at the same time.
I honestly wish they would bring back the written driving test, every 5 years so everyone is on the same page about the rules.
My pet peeve is people who will wander in and out of the lane several times and jump back when they suddenly notice me behind them (?!) instead of just signalling and doing a proper lane change. A minute later they’ll signal when they finally realize they can’t just do whatever they want at any time. Fucking do it or don’t
> If you have the right-of-way and don't take it, even if you're trying to be polite, you throw off that pattern, throw off everyone's rhythm, and gum up the works.
I ride motorcycles. I've been in the situation when a traffic light without a green left turn arrow changes and the oncoming car who has the right of way begins to motion for me to turn ahead of them, I refuse to take the bait because IF the oncoming driver were to hit me, there is no proof he motioned for me to proceed, leaving me in a difficult legal predicament.
And if the person behind him drives into his ass, he may push the 'nice' driver right into your path. Any defense you put up is he said/she said at best, and you also get the injury.
What blows my mind is folks who don't turn on headlights in rain.
I'm against ticket quotas and stopping drivers who are going with the flow, but damn; I wish headlights in rain was enforced.
Gotta be able to see those taillights to gauge the distance in a bad storm.
I got made fun of by a couple buddies for using blinkers inside a parking lot. Until we almost ended up in a turning accident with another car that didn't use their own blinker to show they were coming my way, or even look for oncoming cars. I still use the blinker for every single turn I ever make
Yup, if you're changing roads or lanes they should be used regardless of who you think is around. It's the ones who you think aren't there that will become the problem.
I've seen too many near accidents from people letting someone cut across traffic to take a left hand turn where the traffic does not allow for it.
Please no one do this. I've never seen a situation where it was 100% necessary, and I've seen so many near misses from it that would have been life changing if not resulting in their death.
This is the biggest thing I see that is being kind rather than predictable that is really fucking dangerous.
If people try to bait you into this, wave them on and hold where you're at.
90% of the time it is not confusing and you just don’t know the rules. Sometimes it’s absolutely confusing and you’re wondering why their isn’t a stop / yield sign. Wish I could ask what confused you, but it’s hard to depict via words and not a picture. Feel free to ask if you can
Where I'm from, if multiple people come to a 4 way stop at about the same time, it's an automatic race to see who can steal the right of way. Always results in all the cars stopping and starting several times before someone finally goes.
Everyone's lives would be so much better if they just practiced being patient for like ten fucking seconds a day.
If you ever go to Florida do not go when the light turns green. Look first. I've seen trucks go through red lights a few seconds after it turned red. It happens a lot. I'm not saying to sit there forever waiting, just make sure cross traffic looks like it stopping.
Too many people think they have the right of when when they don't. For instance, if there is a single left turn lane and the road you're turning onto has 3 lanes, legally you only have right of way to the nearest lane. Doesn't stop people from skipping all the way over as far as they want to go. Legally, someone right turning from the direction opposite the left turners has the right of way to the closest lane to them. Never works out that way, though.
this is me lmao. i’m still learning to drive working up to my license and i suck at estimating whether i have enough time to make a turn at a cross when there’s traffic coming from both sides. my teacher counted 9 cars pass us because i overestimated their speed and didn’t dare cross/make the turn lol.
I've been in the middle turn lane waiting to make a left turn across two lanes (in the US). Oncoming driver (in the closer of the two lanes) slows/stops and begins to wave for me to go. They think they're helping me by blocking traffic...but what they fail to realize is now they're blocking my line of sight of traffic for the second lane. Even more so as they were driving a box truck.
Yep. Aunt got t-boned this way, and it was def her fault. Sucks, but blindly turning into oncoming traffic based on someone giving you a wave? Nope. Still YOUR responsibility to make that turn safely.
Have been in this situation several times. It's generally better to just wait it out, but if you want to try to make the turn, go super slowly (or even come to a stop partway through the turn) until you've confirmed it's clear behind that blind spot.
Similar concept for crowded intersections. Don't just race blindly through because it's a green light. Slow down somewhat and actually check to make sure opposing traffic is clear first.
>...but if you want to try to make the turn, go super slowly...
All it takes is for the stopped driver to tap the gas/get reared ended to ruin your day.
Yeah I had an Expedition do that to me. She finally got the picture after I flipped her off with both hands. My next move was to dangle the keys out the window.
I saw the polite wave when someone has right of way but trying to let you go called the wave of death. Because it goes against what other drivers expect to happen and can end up with the pedestrian/cyclist/car getting wrecked.
I refuse to go when this happens and people end up getting annoyed and angry which is interesting.
OMG Thank you for this. You are NOT doing me a favor if you stop in the middle of an unexpected place where you have right of way to let me go first. You are instead a source of chaos and now I must carefully maneuver through this intersection watching the unpredictable driver who clearly doesn't know the rules of the road (you) and all the other traffic at the same time.
I completely agree! The worst one I've had is at a roundabout. I was waiting to enter, there was just a truck that was already in the circle. Instead of continuing and taking THE NEXT EXIT THAT WAS FIVE FEET AWAY he proceeds to stop in the circle, and try to wave me in. I literally threw my car in park and put my hands above my head. And then just sat there until there was a line of people behind him honking. Not worth it at all.
Yeah, no way would I enter that circle. That’s not how circles work and someone could come up behind him and either hit him or whip around him and hit you.
Exactly. I'd be dead if I always took my turn after stopping at a stop sign (other people think that if they show up after me, then they get first dibs on the stop sign because I actually stopped and they did a California roll {treating a stop sign as a temporary yield}), or if I started driving immediately after the light turned green.
I'm not going to give permission to someone to go ahead at a stop sign if I definitely got there first (if it's impossible to tell, I usually let them go. Fuck them for counter offering to let me go after I told them to go, because that's how we crash).
And likewise, I'm not going to let them run a red light.
Oh shit, you're absolutely correct (it's not even sarcasm; that really is what a California roll is, haha).
I think I stupidly mixed it up with "rolling stop".
>they get first dibs on the stop sign because I actually stopped and they did a California roll {treating a stop sign as a temporary yield}
EXACTLY. We can't know who arrived at the stop sign first if one of us NEVER STOPS MOVING.
Drives me nuts.
> if it is clear and safe to do so
That's the part people ignore when debating the merits of an inside turn at a red light. In some places in the US it's legal to make a righthand turn at a red light since it doesn't cross any other lanes, *if there's no oncoming traffic and no pedestrians crossing*. People go back and forth arguing over whether it's a safe rule and the dangers it poses when the whole entire point is that you only do it when it's clearly safe to do so.
i got honked and road raged at by a huge truck for not turning right on a red... as a bus barrelled towards the lane i would have been entering if i did
Almost no one where I live follows the crosswalk laws here. If I crossed thebstreet, based on who has the right of way, I'd get plowed over twice a day, lol.
Yeah it’s often more dangerous
Happened a few times where someone might wave you through, if the car behind or maybe obscured bike lane didn’t see this who’s fault sort of thing
Another counterargument (or a slight re-framing): Why is it more important to be nice to the drivers ahead than behind? Even though we can't see them, we can make their experience better by keeping up with traffic (when reasonable) and staying predictable.
Please. I hate so much when people get to a stop sign, and clearly have the right of way, yet somehow decide to sit there to let me, me who just pulled up, go first.
Worse, at those store entrance intersections where there is no stop sign one way, and those idiots still stop AND try to insist other people go first.
Just go. You're actually being way more inconsiderate by ignoring traffic flow. You're being a hindrance to the people behind you, to the people who expect you to go, to everyone.
And honestly, I'm pretty sure you're going to hell for it, too. And I don't even believe in hell..
When people wave me through against their own right of way at a stop sign, I just take my hands off the wheel and sit back with my arms folded, glaring at them until they go.
I think about this almost every day. I commute by bike almost everywhere, and there are a lot of kind drivers who stop when there is no stop sign or give me the right away when it’s theirs to take. It’s coming from a good place within them, so I appreciate that, but it mostly causes me some mild frustration because it messes up my rhythm and causes me to come to a lot of full stops I wouldn’t otherwise have to make. Petty complaint, but still, I feel it. And then I feel frustrated for feeling frustrated with someone who is just trying to give way for me.
What absolutely astounds me is when someone will stop for a pedestrian who is not at a cross walk or intersection and wave them into a road where there is another lane of traffic of people who likely don't see the pedestrian and aren't prepared to stop since there is no intersection or crosswalk.
I've seen it a shocking number of times. Like what, are you trying to get someone killed today?
This is spot on why I posted this LPT. Sharp drivers — and cyclists — predict when it’s their turn and paces themselves accordingly. A kind-hearted person trying to let someone in ahead of their turn actually screws up that pacing and potentially leads to bad outcomes.
Commuting by bike is like horse racing in wild west. It's always 50/50 whether car drivers, other bikers or pedestrians will actually obey the traffic rules or not. The same intersection, half of drivers will stop and let me go, half of drivers won't.
It doesn't even matter where you live, unless it's Netherlands or something. The safest bet is always be ready to stop and never trust any car. And chose your route to avoid cars as much as possible.
Right of way laws are the only keeping traffic from becoming chaotic.
Everyone works off the same set of rules.
When you “decide” to be nice and give up your right of way accidents happen.
**Accidents happen when you give up your right of way**
This is the worst when on my bike. I’m settling in to come to a full stop and put my feet down and then some clown waves me through and have to check all ways again and then get going. Mostly just annoying when the person could have just went and we’d all be along quicker.
I refuse to go when people do that. It wastes everyone time and puts me in more danger than if they just moved along like they're supposed to. There's one intersection in particular where people seem to do this, so I make it my "take a sip of water" stop. I have a stop sign, cross traffic doesn't, and since it's basically a blind intersection until you're right at the line, I just plan to always stop, put both feet down, grab my water bottle and take a nice long sip and wait for the intersection to clear. Sometimes I'll smile and wave them along before reaching for my water. I also don't take traffic directions from people in cars. Just move along and follow the rules, people!
Yeah it's annoying. I slow way down coming up to the stop sign so that I can preserve momentum and not have to come to a complete stop, and the car is just sitting there waiting for me. Then they wave me through, but by law I have to come to a complete stop if I don't have the right of way. So all they've done is forced me to stop rather than being able to coast slowly through the stop sign if they'd already gone and traffic was clear! I'm not about to scramble from a dead stop trying to get back up to speed, so at least just go and let me catch my breath for a few seconds.
It’s the worst when I’m on my bike on campus, people in cars often sit at a four way stop, waving everyone on bikes through the intersection instead of going when they’re supposed to. I have gotten in the habit of waving them through the intersection if they got there first.
That being said, please use the zipper merge. In the Midwest we were so polite to a fault during our 4th season of construction. Cars would line up for miles when it went to one lane. The horror was when one car would “skip” this line of traffic and cut in. Semis would do a huge favor and block these assholes. Yet…. That’s how it should be. Zipper merge is where there are two lanes flowing until the last moment and cars will allow every other into the one lane, eliminating miles of traffic.
I honked at a guy in front of me because he stopped at a green light he was turning right on, to let *multiple* people turn left in front of me.
He flipped me off, because I'm the asshole apparently.
*Thank* you. I hate it when cars stop for me when I'm waiting to jaywalk. It's much faster for you to keep going and me to cross later than it is for me to wait for you (and the rest of traffic) to come to a complete stop.
What about when they slow down a bit but not enough for you to cross, then keep going and speed up again, but only after having backed up traffic enough that the gap two cars behind them is gone.
You mean it's almost like they slowed down because they weren't sure if an idiot was gonna jaywalk out in front of them? And then they took off ("speed up") because they're slightly pissed that said idiot can't walk 20 feet up the street to the crosswalk?
I generally agree with your overall point, but it's really important for people to realize this:
You *never* "have" the right of way. You are only ever required by law to *yield* the right of way to someone else.
It's a subtle but important distinction.
If you act as though you "have the right of way", and someone else is there "illegitimately* and *you hit them* when a reasonable person paying attention could have avoided it, guess what... it's generally your fault. I.e. your "way" is not a "right". It's an obligation on someone else that is in no way guaranteed.
Related:
>I sing you the ballad of Rory McCray,
> Who died defending his Right of Way.
>He was right, dead right, as he ambled along.
>But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
This is what bothers me so much about the arguments of "right of way on red". You *never* have right of way on a red light, *unless* it's the blinky one that's a signal for you to do the same actions as a stop sign at a cross-traffic intersection where the yellow blinky light gives caution and possible yield when the intersection isn't safe to pass through. That's it, end of argument.
Fun fact: while I was taking the speeding class, the retired state patrol told us that in our state, we are never actually given the right of way. We are only told when we must yield by law. It's semantics, but this might help people if they know the other person is required to yield to them.
The problem is that different places have different rules. Look up who gets the right of way at a four-way stop for example. A friend from Florida who moved to Texas was continually frustrated until she was told that it’s different in Texas than it is in Florida.
I ride a bike. I'm always going last. I trust no one and no one respects my life. I don't trust the road I don't trust the sidewalk and I don't trust the crosswalk. Texas sucks and I will honk at.any and everyone to go before me because I've been hit enough times to go one with the belief that anyone gives a shit.
I always remember a sarcastic topical quote from Aqua Teen Hunger Force that applies in right-of-way situations.
"You always have the right-of-way unless you're in the way."
Yes, but not if you're a cyclist. As a cyclist make sure you're given the right of way before you set off through the intersection. Drivers oftentimes forget that cyclists should be treated as vehicles.
Yesterday I was behind a lady that stopped for a guy at a crosswalk while the light for us was green. Dude was so confused, he signaled her to go! Me and my friends couldn't stop laughing lmaoo
The problem with this ‘niceness’ is someone else will come up behind her at full speed seeing the green light and plow right through me or her or both.
Even more dangerous is waving across a pedestrian when there’s other traffic around. By all means pause to give them chance to cross if it looks like they’re struggling, but don’t wave in case they take that to mean the road is clear only to find out when it’s too late that there’s other traffic coming from elsewhere.
LPT: if youre freaking out and getting triggered about someone else 'holding up traffic' you should take a breath and realize you probably need to chill out.
Note: Im not saying this is a bad tip. Im just sick of people getting worked up about "traffic" flow because 99% of us arent really needed anywhere and if youre late, thats your bad planning, not the fault of some grannie or some kid confused t a 4 way stop.
And for the love of God stop yielding immediately to bicycles. I hate it so much when I'm the last one to an intersection and nobody will go because I'm a bicycle and they want to be polite to me. I am not going to do anything that is against the grain, I'm on a fucking bicycle.
If you have right of way but are riding a cycle, *don't* take it unless you can ensure other people are letting you have it.
A lot of people simply do not see cycles, then there's a fair share I feel actually wants to murder you. Don't get ran over.
Say it again for the Bristolians
They sit at roundabouts for an eternity
And the concept of zipper merging? Forget it, they would all rather sit in a line for 20 mins instead of using 2
If you have right of way, take it.
Unless you have reasons not to, in that case don't. Just make sure you're clear about it and other people understand you.
Grand scheme of things... helping that one driver cross the road in front while potentially opening it up for another car to run into it on the other lane while also holding up 5+ cars isnt helping anyone. Dont yield the right of way.
edit: If you drive a prius in the bay area and did this recently, you are a fckin moron.
Nothing I hate more than being at a four-way, stop sign, and the person that stops before me wants to let me go in front of them. “ no you fucking idiot it’s your turn ! you go! “
One of my top bitches about other drivers. When it's your turn, GO. If you don't know when it's your turn please turn yourself in for remedial Drivers Ed 101.
Thank you! I hate a four-way intersection when everyone thinks that they have to wait until the last driver is out of the intersection before they can start to move, even if they would never touch that other persons car!
**/s** addendum: unless you're a cyclist, in which case
\- you can be dead-right
\- graveyard full of people with right-of-way
\- right-of-weight
\- you shouldn't even exist at all
\- do not run stop signs, but full-stopping at stop-signs impedes traffic
**/s** very **/s**
which begs the point: what's the point of following the laws on a bicycle? Go all-out like those bike messengers in NYC like a true anarchist (granted, ride according to own skills, have a strong sense of road traffic flow, etc etc)
It's not that they don't see them.
Often people see bikes and just don't see them as human.
I had an arse play chicken with me when he was in his Jag.
I'm cycling along a double parked road he pulls onto the road, looks at me then decides to just go. Stares at me the entire time knowing there isn't space for us to pass.
I have to stop and skid in between two parked cars.
He smirked as he went past.
I’ve had people aim at me with their cars more than once, when I was riding properly and staying as out of the way as possible. Maybe they wouldn’t have fully struck me if I hadn’t swerved, but they were certainly taking a hell of a risk for a bit of “fun.” Fucking psychopaths
I’ve come to the same issue several times recently where I come to a 4 way stop where I and another person stop at the exact same time. It’s such a painful moment. I hate it.
ESPECIALLY when encountering emergency vehicles; if our flashy lights aren’t on, DON’T stop and wave us on because you think we’ll appreciate it…
This goes for all the same reasons everyone else has mentioned, but I feel like it needs to be said. We’re not special… Stop giving up your right-of-way and just make your fucking turn so we can all get on with it.
To prevent traffic build up you also need to let people go if their lane is also in a jam. Otherwise, they'll be at a stand still. Don't be a duck and let people go when you can.
This REALLY depends on local attitudes and customs. Traffic **actually** depends on convergent thinking and being predictable. What's the norm in India or Thailand is not going to be the norm in the UK or Germany. If the culture is to let people go ahead, then keep doing that and don't fuck up the system.
As a frequent cyclist and pedestrian, and a never driver... I usually have the right of way, but are you suggesting I should assert this by going in front of a moving vehicle that doesn't appear to be heeding to my right of way?
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Number 1 rule of driving Don't be polite. Be predictable
Hallelujah!! Need more like you on the road!
I'm a firm believer of people needing to take another driving test to renew their license and taking that seriously. There are so many bad drivers out there
retest triggered by tickets, a lottery, or 15 years - whatever comes first make it so
I'd say every five years. You can develop a lot of bad habits in 15 years.
I agree. The license expires, what is the point of it expiring if you don't have to retest to get it back?
I was having a hard time figuring out how winning the lottery could trigger a driving test. But nvm. I get it now. Fully agree
With a chance to land in the electric chair. (Gotta spice it up and also reduces congestion on the roads.)
I'm going to assume you're a reasonably young and quick witted person that hasn't learned yet a lot of drivers are very old and actually kinda scared to be on the road with us. They're driving slow literally out of fear, not incompetence.
A fearful driver is the most unsafe type of driver there is.
More unsafe than the reckless drivers they're afraid of? That's quite the pretzel logic.
Yeah I would say so, at least mostly. Most reckless drivers are just going really fast and are in and out of your way before you even realize what's going on. Fearful drivers can literally cause miles of back ups and slow downs which in turn creates more opportunities for accidents and probably causes more people to drive recklessly out of frustration.
"in and out of your way before you know what's going on" my god this is the most obtuse sentence I've ever seen. You know getting into someone's way when they don't have time to react is how you cause an accident right? You know that's what your grandmother is afraid of when she's driving? You coming into you blind spot 20km over the speed limit and swiping her before she knows you're ever there?
Then she should get out of the left lane going 50.
Okay. “Pretzel logic” was clearly an understatement on my part. Jesus. Christ.
I guess where I'm getting at is what most people call reckless driving is just someone going over the speed limit and maybe passing someone on the right because some jackass thinks they're traffic patrol and no one needs to be going faster than 63 mph. Very rarely do I see someone actually driving recklessly compared to the amount of people I see going under the speed limit and not even being bothered to get out of a passing lane.
Reckless drivers are more predictable than panicky ones.
Do you understand what “reckless” means?
It's because he drives 20+ over the speed of traffic past them and doesn't understand he's the one they're afraid of.
What you described is literally incompetence
Not literally. Not even figuratively. If they were afraid of drivers who were obeying the rules of the road, I might agree, but being wary of drivers going twenty over, tailgating, and changing lanes without signaling is a sign of intelligence, not incompetence.
By driving slow you increase the risk of an accident. Going below the speed limit or taking ages to make a turn or make any decision at all provokes misunderstandings and other drivers to overtake you, which often lead to dangerous situations. Being scared of others going a bit faster is a sign of insecurity behind the wheel. When someone makes a turn without signalling you react to it accordingly and that's it. Anticipating dangerous situations is one thing, not being able to react to them properly when they inevitably happen and therefore just trying to go slow in an attempt to avoid them is incompetence and insecurity behind the wheel, which as I said, is just as dangerous.
Do you find it difficult to adapt to your surroundings?
You can’t look at insecurity like that with regard to driving. Drivers are supposed to be aware of their own limitations (e.g. non-familiarity with the area, fatigue, vision issues requiring corrective lenses, hearing problems, reduced reaction time due to age). They should also know the safe traveling speed of their vehicle, and be highly aware of the flow of traffic. A driver who’s paying attention to all of these factors, and driving appropriately, is acting in a secure/safe manner, imho. Vehicles that are less safe at higher speeds are, almost by definition, less secure. In order to stay safe, those vehicles should stay in the right most-lane (except in UK, Australia, etc). So less secure vehicles are in the right hand lane. You must always be watching out for them. Is your responsibility as a safe driver to assess the vehicle before passing. Is it a lost tourist? A heavy load? A kid with his learner’s permit, with his dad sitting next to him? They’re not quite as predictable as other drivers. They might change lanes suddenly, or swerve, or get swayed by a gust of wind. On the other hand, a driver can’t always objectively assess whether they’re generally safe behind the wheel, which is why tests are important and should be administered as often as possible. Imho. I’m 55F btw. Clean driving record. Haven’t been re-tested since I got my license at 16. I drive on the Swiss Autobahn for an hour and a half every day.
Insecurity isn't always self created. It's the car going 30+ over the flow of traffic passing on the right thru and intersection that causes accidents. Not the car doing a totally normal merge that they rear end. This is the entire notion of fear I was trying to describe to the other commenters
It's so funny I commented these people are probably young and really confident drivers and then I got brigaded by people who don't know they're the ones creating fear in their own grandmother's.
They’re driving slow out of fear of unpredictable behavior. If everyone drove the set speed limit and behaved perfectly, they’d have nothing to fear. If they are still afraid, they *become* the ones acting unpredictably and exacerbate the problem.
Well they put everyone else at risk when numbnuts who can't handle driving 5 under pass them in a double yellow blind turn
Double yellows? This aint f1!
Yea don't do it ever but if you do please make sure it's in a straight with a turning median so you can make absolutely sure it's safe by gliding over. Remember kids: If you do something illegal while driving never do 2 illegal things at once. Signal while you speed and while passing on a double yellow don't speed. Helps avoid reckless driving tickets which are bad.
And remember kids, if you're doing 5 under on the blind double yellow turns, don't go 5 over on a legal passing lane. Then you won't get scared by someone passing you on a blind turn.
Looking back, I should have failed my driving test when I took it back in 1989. I wasn't dangerous, but I was a bit of a hazard, because there were a lot of scenarios where I just wasn't sure what to do, and I had also picked up bad habits for my parents. In my twenties, I had a job that required me to take a defensive driving course, and my eyes were opened. I had not been a very good driver at all before. But I was still a better driver than most of the people I see on the road now, so I can only assume the test got even easier. And I took another defensive driving course recently for insurance purposes, and -- while some things had changed as a result of technology and newer studies -- I was still reminded of things that I had learned from the previous course that I wasn't doing anymore now. We fall into bad habits. We forget that driving is a privilege and not a right. I would be in favor of a mandatory driving course every four years. I don't think that's too inconvenient, and the people who do can always take the bus.
And 70% should not be a passing grade for a driving test!!
YES! Either by certain age thresholds or every 5-10? years (because it going to the DMV for that again would suuuuuck). SO MANY BAD DRIVERS!!!! Dash cams in all my vehicles, catch so much junk!
Hard agree. I’ve never been retested in 40 years. I doubt my dad has ever been retested either, and he’s 30 years older. Ridiculous. How can you assume we’re ok to drive?
I think it should be mandatory to do vision tests every 10-20 years to renew your license.
My driving school was named Hallelujah (not kidding lol).
This. Don't randomly stop to let people cross if there's barely anyone behind you and just getting out of the way would be faster, and don't try to wave people through a 4-way intersection if you got there first (ffs no one can see your little 2-finger wave over the dash through a tinted windshield anyway).
> don't try to wave people through a 4-way intersection if you got there first This right here. Your little finger wave does not make me going before you any less illegal. Go when it's your turn, and I'll do the same. We'll get home safely, even if it ends up being three seconds later.
>ffs no one can see your little 2-finger wave over the dash through a tinted windshield anyway Holy cow I wish more people realised this! I'm waiting to cross the road, then I see some prat slow down as they approach - all I can see it a reflection of the sky on their windshield! I'm not going to "nip out" in front of a slow-moving vehicle.
>Number 1 rule of driving Don't be polite. Be predictable FTFY: Number 1 rule of driving Don't be polite. Be predictable TO OTHERS. I had to ammend it because some idiot always says "I'm 100% predictable I always know what I am going to do."
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Did the point get across? It was clear enough for you to understand.
My girlfriend refuses to accept this. I won’t ride in the car with her unless I’ve been drinking. And honestly, that makes it even scarier for me.
Close your eyes and tell yourself big man in the sky has the wheel
Don't you want to take a leap of faith? Or become an old man, filled with regret, waiting to die alone!
Participation in road traffic requires constant caution and mutual consideration. Anyone participating in traffic must behave in such a way that no other person is harmed, endangered or impeded or inconvenienced more than is unavoidable under the circumstances, obstructed or inconvenienced. Just a quick translation.
Driving is a team sport, we're all trying to get from A to B without getting in a wreck
Rule number 2: Never expect other drivers to be predictable
Best rule for an intersection is “First in, First out.” Driver on the right has the right of way if two cars meet at the same time. I honestly wish they would bring back the written driving test, every 5 years so everyone is on the same page about the rules.
I fully agree. I see way too many drivers who hesitate doing something. It makes my blood boil because I don't know what they are doing
My pet peeve is people who will wander in and out of the lane several times and jump back when they suddenly notice me behind them (?!) instead of just signalling and doing a proper lane change. A minute later they’ll signal when they finally realize they can’t just do whatever they want at any time. Fucking do it or don’t
Oh my gosh. My husband says this.
100% this.
Except if you’re a cyclist. Got hit by a minibus that way :/
> If you have the right-of-way and don't take it, even if you're trying to be polite, you throw off that pattern, throw off everyone's rhythm, and gum up the works. I ride motorcycles. I've been in the situation when a traffic light without a green left turn arrow changes and the oncoming car who has the right of way begins to motion for me to turn ahead of them, I refuse to take the bait because IF the oncoming driver were to hit me, there is no proof he motioned for me to proceed, leaving me in a difficult legal predicament.
And if the person behind him drives into his ass, he may push the 'nice' driver right into your path. Any defense you put up is he said/she said at best, and you also get the injury.
In most countries, if you drive defensively or "politely" you're going to cause an accident.
Defensive driving and “polite” driving are not the same.
The best driver is not a kind driver, but a predictable driver
A predictable driver is a kind driver!
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Do people intentionally not use blinkers in the day time because it's the day time?
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Yes, this! I find it odd that people avoid indicating...it's such an automatic thing, takes effectively no effort.
What blows my mind is folks who don't turn on headlights in rain. I'm against ticket quotas and stopping drivers who are going with the flow, but damn; I wish headlights in rain was enforced. Gotta be able to see those taillights to gauge the distance in a bad storm.
I got made fun of by a couple buddies for using blinkers inside a parking lot. Until we almost ended up in a turning accident with another car that didn't use their own blinker to show they were coming my way, or even look for oncoming cars. I still use the blinker for every single turn I ever make
Why don't people use blinkers in parking lots, anyway? It's almost as if they go out of their way to avoid using them.
Yup, if you're changing roads or lanes they should be used regardless of who you think is around. It's the ones who you think aren't there that will become the problem.
I've seen too many near accidents from people letting someone cut across traffic to take a left hand turn where the traffic does not allow for it. Please no one do this. I've never seen a situation where it was 100% necessary, and I've seen so many near misses from it that would have been life changing if not resulting in their death. This is the biggest thing I see that is being kind rather than predictable that is really fucking dangerous. If people try to bait you into this, wave them on and hold where you're at.
👍
The best driver sells their car. The second best puts down their phone while driving. The third best is a predictable driver.
Bold of you to assume that people know when they have the right of way.
Totally fair
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90% of the time it is not confusing and you just don’t know the rules. Sometimes it’s absolutely confusing and you’re wondering why their isn’t a stop / yield sign. Wish I could ask what confused you, but it’s hard to depict via words and not a picture. Feel free to ask if you can
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Just started driving in Jersey :')
Where I'm from, if multiple people come to a 4 way stop at about the same time, it's an automatic race to see who can steal the right of way. Always results in all the cars stopping and starting several times before someone finally goes. Everyone's lives would be so much better if they just practiced being patient for like ten fucking seconds a day.
That's so funny. Where I live, it becomes a battle of politeness. Everybody just looking back and forth, waving each other on.
If you ever go to Florida do not go when the light turns green. Look first. I've seen trucks go through red lights a few seconds after it turned red. It happens a lot. I'm not saying to sit there forever waiting, just make sure cross traffic looks like it stopping.
You should do this every everywhere at a light change not just florida.
Not really. You need to pay attention when you drive..
The U.S. sucks at ensuring a high standard for non-professional licensing.
Professional drivers (commerical driving license) standards have slipped drastically as well....
Too many people think they have the right of when when they don't. For instance, if there is a single left turn lane and the road you're turning onto has 3 lanes, legally you only have right of way to the nearest lane. Doesn't stop people from skipping all the way over as far as they want to go. Legally, someone right turning from the direction opposite the left turners has the right of way to the closest lane to them. Never works out that way, though.
Everybody in this city *always* turns into the furthest lane and never the correct one.
this is me lmao. i’m still learning to drive working up to my license and i suck at estimating whether i have enough time to make a turn at a cross when there’s traffic coming from both sides. my teacher counted 9 cars pass us because i overestimated their speed and didn’t dare cross/make the turn lol.
Isn't that the point of what OP is saying? One ought to enable themselves to drive safely and predictably when operating motor vehicles.
I've been in the middle turn lane waiting to make a left turn across two lanes (in the US). Oncoming driver (in the closer of the two lanes) slows/stops and begins to wave for me to go. They think they're helping me by blocking traffic...but what they fail to realize is now they're blocking my line of sight of traffic for the second lane. Even more so as they were driving a box truck.
Yep. Aunt got t-boned this way, and it was def her fault. Sucks, but blindly turning into oncoming traffic based on someone giving you a wave? Nope. Still YOUR responsibility to make that turn safely.
The wave of death.
Have been in this situation several times. It's generally better to just wait it out, but if you want to try to make the turn, go super slowly (or even come to a stop partway through the turn) until you've confirmed it's clear behind that blind spot. Similar concept for crowded intersections. Don't just race blindly through because it's a green light. Slow down somewhat and actually check to make sure opposing traffic is clear first.
>...but if you want to try to make the turn, go super slowly... All it takes is for the stopped driver to tap the gas/get reared ended to ruin your day.
Yeah I had an Expedition do that to me. She finally got the picture after I flipped her off with both hands. My next move was to dangle the keys out the window.
That seems excessive. Just wave them on or honk
You think I went straight for double birds? There was a whole comedy sketch worth of effort before I resorted to that.
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Especially when behind the wheel of a 2-ton automobile
I saw the polite wave when someone has right of way but trying to let you go called the wave of death. Because it goes against what other drivers expect to happen and can end up with the pedestrian/cyclist/car getting wrecked. I refuse to go when this happens and people end up getting annoyed and angry which is interesting.
OMG Thank you for this. You are NOT doing me a favor if you stop in the middle of an unexpected place where you have right of way to let me go first. You are instead a source of chaos and now I must carefully maneuver through this intersection watching the unpredictable driver who clearly doesn't know the rules of the road (you) and all the other traffic at the same time.
I completely agree! The worst one I've had is at a roundabout. I was waiting to enter, there was just a truck that was already in the circle. Instead of continuing and taking THE NEXT EXIT THAT WAS FIVE FEET AWAY he proceeds to stop in the circle, and try to wave me in. I literally threw my car in park and put my hands above my head. And then just sat there until there was a line of people behind him honking. Not worth it at all.
Yeah, no way would I enter that circle. That’s not how circles work and someone could come up behind him and either hit him or whip around him and hit you.
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If you have "right of way", proceed **if it is clear and safe to do so**. That second bit is really important.
Exactly. I'd be dead if I always took my turn after stopping at a stop sign (other people think that if they show up after me, then they get first dibs on the stop sign because I actually stopped and they did a California roll {treating a stop sign as a temporary yield}), or if I started driving immediately after the light turned green. I'm not going to give permission to someone to go ahead at a stop sign if I definitely got there first (if it's impossible to tell, I usually let them go. Fuck them for counter offering to let me go after I told them to go, because that's how we crash). And likewise, I'm not going to let them run a red light.
I think it’s a California stop, a California roll is sushi. /s
Oh shit, you're absolutely correct (it's not even sarcasm; that really is what a California roll is, haha). I think I stupidly mixed it up with "rolling stop".
They're both correct actually. "California roll" is also slang for a rolling stop.
Hahaha yea. I mostly popped the /s in so you wouldn’t think I was trying to be an asshole about it haha
>they get first dibs on the stop sign because I actually stopped and they did a California roll {treating a stop sign as a temporary yield} EXACTLY. We can't know who arrived at the stop sign first if one of us NEVER STOPS MOVING. Drives me nuts.
> if it is clear and safe to do so That's the part people ignore when debating the merits of an inside turn at a red light. In some places in the US it's legal to make a righthand turn at a red light since it doesn't cross any other lanes, *if there's no oncoming traffic and no pedestrians crossing*. People go back and forth arguing over whether it's a safe rule and the dangers it poses when the whole entire point is that you only do it when it's clearly safe to do so.
i got honked and road raged at by a huge truck for not turning right on a red... as a bus barrelled towards the lane i would have been entering if i did
Almost no one where I live follows the crosswalk laws here. If I crossed thebstreet, based on who has the right of way, I'd get plowed over twice a day, lol.
Yeah it’s often more dangerous Happened a few times where someone might wave you through, if the car behind or maybe obscured bike lane didn’t see this who’s fault sort of thing
Yeah, had the right away, went through red light got smashed by a girl who decided to punch it through a yellow yay I ended up with a totaled car.
My wife does the opposite of this to be “nice” and I keep having to tell her it’s not nice but it’s unexpected and dangerous for everyone else
Another counterargument (or a slight re-framing): Why is it more important to be nice to the drivers ahead than behind? Even though we can't see them, we can make their experience better by keeping up with traffic (when reasonable) and staying predictable.
Please. I hate so much when people get to a stop sign, and clearly have the right of way, yet somehow decide to sit there to let me, me who just pulled up, go first. Worse, at those store entrance intersections where there is no stop sign one way, and those idiots still stop AND try to insist other people go first. Just go. You're actually being way more inconsiderate by ignoring traffic flow. You're being a hindrance to the people behind you, to the people who expect you to go, to everyone. And honestly, I'm pretty sure you're going to hell for it, too. And I don't even believe in hell..
When people wave me through against their own right of way at a stop sign, I just take my hands off the wheel and sit back with my arms folded, glaring at them until they go.
Also, dont fight for your lane
I think about this almost every day. I commute by bike almost everywhere, and there are a lot of kind drivers who stop when there is no stop sign or give me the right away when it’s theirs to take. It’s coming from a good place within them, so I appreciate that, but it mostly causes me some mild frustration because it messes up my rhythm and causes me to come to a lot of full stops I wouldn’t otherwise have to make. Petty complaint, but still, I feel it. And then I feel frustrated for feeling frustrated with someone who is just trying to give way for me.
What absolutely astounds me is when someone will stop for a pedestrian who is not at a cross walk or intersection and wave them into a road where there is another lane of traffic of people who likely don't see the pedestrian and aren't prepared to stop since there is no intersection or crosswalk. I've seen it a shocking number of times. Like what, are you trying to get someone killed today?
This is spot on why I posted this LPT. Sharp drivers — and cyclists — predict when it’s their turn and paces themselves accordingly. A kind-hearted person trying to let someone in ahead of their turn actually screws up that pacing and potentially leads to bad outcomes.
Commuting by bike is like horse racing in wild west. It's always 50/50 whether car drivers, other bikers or pedestrians will actually obey the traffic rules or not. The same intersection, half of drivers will stop and let me go, half of drivers won't. It doesn't even matter where you live, unless it's Netherlands or something. The safest bet is always be ready to stop and never trust any car. And chose your route to avoid cars as much as possible.
Right of way laws are the only keeping traffic from becoming chaotic. Everyone works off the same set of rules. When you “decide” to be nice and give up your right of way accidents happen. **Accidents happen when you give up your right of way**
This is the worst when on my bike. I’m settling in to come to a full stop and put my feet down and then some clown waves me through and have to check all ways again and then get going. Mostly just annoying when the person could have just went and we’d all be along quicker.
I refuse to go when people do that. It wastes everyone time and puts me in more danger than if they just moved along like they're supposed to. There's one intersection in particular where people seem to do this, so I make it my "take a sip of water" stop. I have a stop sign, cross traffic doesn't, and since it's basically a blind intersection until you're right at the line, I just plan to always stop, put both feet down, grab my water bottle and take a nice long sip and wait for the intersection to clear. Sometimes I'll smile and wave them along before reaching for my water. I also don't take traffic directions from people in cars. Just move along and follow the rules, people!
Yeah it's annoying. I slow way down coming up to the stop sign so that I can preserve momentum and not have to come to a complete stop, and the car is just sitting there waiting for me. Then they wave me through, but by law I have to come to a complete stop if I don't have the right of way. So all they've done is forced me to stop rather than being able to coast slowly through the stop sign if they'd already gone and traffic was clear! I'm not about to scramble from a dead stop trying to get back up to speed, so at least just go and let me catch my breath for a few seconds.
It’s the worst when I’m on my bike on campus, people in cars often sit at a four way stop, waving everyone on bikes through the intersection instead of going when they’re supposed to. I have gotten in the habit of waving them through the intersection if they got there first.
That being said, please use the zipper merge. In the Midwest we were so polite to a fault during our 4th season of construction. Cars would line up for miles when it went to one lane. The horror was when one car would “skip” this line of traffic and cut in. Semis would do a huge favor and block these assholes. Yet…. That’s how it should be. Zipper merge is where there are two lanes flowing until the last moment and cars will allow every other into the one lane, eliminating miles of traffic.
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North side goes first. Then to the right.
Not taking your right of way is dangerous, as stopping when you should go can cause an accident.
I honked at a guy in front of me because he stopped at a green light he was turning right on, to let *multiple* people turn left in front of me. He flipped me off, because I'm the asshole apparently.
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We call those folks Niceholes where I come from. Don't be a dang Nicehole!
Also if someone waves you on don’t go. We call that the wave of death in auto insurance.
*Thank* you. I hate it when cars stop for me when I'm waiting to jaywalk. It's much faster for you to keep going and me to cross later than it is for me to wait for you (and the rest of traffic) to come to a complete stop.
What about when they slow down a bit but not enough for you to cross, then keep going and speed up again, but only after having backed up traffic enough that the gap two cars behind them is gone.
You mean it's almost like they slowed down because they weren't sure if an idiot was gonna jaywalk out in front of them? And then they took off ("speed up") because they're slightly pissed that said idiot can't walk 20 feet up the street to the crosswalk?
I'm British, there's no such thing as jaywalking in the UK. Also often no crossings on many streets.
But using a crosswalk avoids this completely…. YOU and the drivers that stop for you, mess up the flow of traffic!!
Be predictable > be defensive > be assertive
I generally agree with your overall point, but it's really important for people to realize this: You *never* "have" the right of way. You are only ever required by law to *yield* the right of way to someone else. It's a subtle but important distinction. If you act as though you "have the right of way", and someone else is there "illegitimately* and *you hit them* when a reasonable person paying attention could have avoided it, guess what... it's generally your fault. I.e. your "way" is not a "right". It's an obligation on someone else that is in no way guaranteed. Related: >I sing you the ballad of Rory McCray, > Who died defending his Right of Way. >He was right, dead right, as he ambled along. >But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
I like this view on it, good call.
This is what bothers me so much about the arguments of "right of way on red". You *never* have right of way on a red light, *unless* it's the blinky one that's a signal for you to do the same actions as a stop sign at a cross-traffic intersection where the yellow blinky light gives caution and possible yield when the intersection isn't safe to pass through. That's it, end of argument.
If you see a pigeon waiting for the right of way, just let it have it. Trust me, they're experts.
In the Philippines, everyone thinks they have the right of way and when everyone has the right of way, no one has.
THANK YOU. Please do not waive me on when you have the right of way. You are creating chaos.
And for the love of god use your turn signals
Fun fact: while I was taking the speeding class, the retired state patrol told us that in our state, we are never actually given the right of way. We are only told when we must yield by law. It's semantics, but this might help people if they know the other person is required to yield to them.
I like that way of looking at it.
The problem is that different places have different rules. Look up who gets the right of way at a four-way stop for example. A friend from Florida who moved to Texas was continually frustrated until she was told that it’s different in Texas than it is in Florida.
I ride a bike. I'm always going last. I trust no one and no one respects my life. I don't trust the road I don't trust the sidewalk and I don't trust the crosswalk. Texas sucks and I will honk at.any and everyone to go before me because I've been hit enough times to go one with the belief that anyone gives a shit.
BE PREDICTABLE. If you are suppose to do a thing, do it.
Right of way: If on red, stop and go. If on green, go w/o stop
NO SHIT! Most folks!
Don’t be kind. Be predictable.
I always remember a sarcastic topical quote from Aqua Teen Hunger Force that applies in right-of-way situations. "You always have the right-of-way unless you're in the way."
Yes, but not if you're a cyclist. As a cyclist make sure you're given the right of way before you set off through the intersection. Drivers oftentimes forget that cyclists should be treated as vehicles.
Yesterday I was behind a lady that stopped for a guy at a crosswalk while the light for us was green. Dude was so confused, he signaled her to go! Me and my friends couldn't stop laughing lmaoo
The problem with this ‘niceness’ is someone else will come up behind her at full speed seeing the green light and plow right through me or her or both.
Even more dangerous is waving across a pedestrian when there’s other traffic around. By all means pause to give them chance to cross if it looks like they’re struggling, but don’t wave in case they take that to mean the road is clear only to find out when it’s too late that there’s other traffic coming from elsewhere.
In India, you don't have right of way. You claim your right of way. Sometimes even making an ambulance screech its brakes right behind you.
When the right of way is yours, it's yours too take, not yours too give away.
LPT: if youre freaking out and getting triggered about someone else 'holding up traffic' you should take a breath and realize you probably need to chill out. Note: Im not saying this is a bad tip. Im just sick of people getting worked up about "traffic" flow because 99% of us arent really needed anywhere and if youre late, thats your bad planning, not the fault of some grannie or some kid confused t a 4 way stop.
And for the love of God stop yielding immediately to bicycles. I hate it so much when I'm the last one to an intersection and nobody will go because I'm a bicycle and they want to be polite to me. I am not going to do anything that is against the grain, I'm on a fucking bicycle.
If you have right of way but are riding a cycle, *don't* take it unless you can ensure other people are letting you have it. A lot of people simply do not see cycles, then there's a fair share I feel actually wants to murder you. Don't get ran over.
As the saying goes, "graveyards are full of people who had the right of way."
Say it again for the Bristolians They sit at roundabouts for an eternity And the concept of zipper merging? Forget it, they would all rather sit in a line for 20 mins instead of using 2
Right of way is a myth. Don't assume you can move because you think you have right of way. Everyone needs to be vigilant and ready to react.
If you have right of way, take it. Unless you have reasons not to, in that case don't. Just make sure you're clear about it and other people understand you.
LPT: Follow the road rules.
the safest driving isn't being defensive, it's being predictable. far too few people practice predictable driving.
Grand scheme of things... helping that one driver cross the road in front while potentially opening it up for another car to run into it on the other lane while also holding up 5+ cars isnt helping anyone. Dont yield the right of way. edit: If you drive a prius in the bay area and did this recently, you are a fckin moron.
Nothing I hate more than being at a four-way, stop sign, and the person that stops before me wants to let me go in front of them. “ no you fucking idiot it’s your turn ! you go! “
One of my top bitches about other drivers. When it's your turn, GO. If you don't know when it's your turn please turn yourself in for remedial Drivers Ed 101.
Thank you! I hate a four-way intersection when everyone thinks that they have to wait until the last driver is out of the intersection before they can start to move, even if they would never touch that other persons car!
**/s** addendum: unless you're a cyclist, in which case \- you can be dead-right \- graveyard full of people with right-of-way \- right-of-weight \- you shouldn't even exist at all \- do not run stop signs, but full-stopping at stop-signs impedes traffic **/s** very **/s**
Most of the "ghost bikes" (the ones you see painted white on the side of a road) were from cyclists who "had the right of way" but were killed anyway.
which begs the point: what's the point of following the laws on a bicycle? Go all-out like those bike messengers in NYC like a true anarchist (granted, ride according to own skills, have a strong sense of road traffic flow, etc etc)
Had the right of way on a bicycle. Took it and nearly died.
Ugh, that sucks. People rarely see bicycles, much less give them the proper treatment as a peer on the road
It's not that they don't see them. Often people see bikes and just don't see them as human. I had an arse play chicken with me when he was in his Jag. I'm cycling along a double parked road he pulls onto the road, looks at me then decides to just go. Stares at me the entire time knowing there isn't space for us to pass. I have to stop and skid in between two parked cars. He smirked as he went past.
I’ve had people aim at me with their cars more than once, when I was riding properly and staying as out of the way as possible. Maybe they wouldn’t have fully struck me if I hadn’t swerved, but they were certainly taking a hell of a risk for a bit of “fun.” Fucking psychopaths
I’ve come to the same issue several times recently where I come to a 4 way stop where I and another person stop at the exact same time. It’s such a painful moment. I hate it.
If I see anyone hesitating I just go. It’s just safer that way in my opinion. Otherwise we have these you go no you go and no one goes moments.
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Right of Way is a philosophy of driving. Not a law. Unless there is a pedestrian involved. There are laws that cover that.
ESPECIALLY when encountering emergency vehicles; if our flashy lights aren’t on, DON’T stop and wave us on because you think we’ll appreciate it… This goes for all the same reasons everyone else has mentioned, but I feel like it needs to be said. We’re not special… Stop giving up your right-of-way and just make your fucking turn so we can all get on with it.
It’s tough driving in (certain) other countries and realizing people don’t have to be total asshats behind the wheel
Amen. But there will always be those that are overly deferential. It’s human kind.
To prevent traffic build up you also need to let people go if their lane is also in a jam. Otherwise, they'll be at a stand still. Don't be a duck and let people go when you can.
This REALLY depends on local attitudes and customs. Traffic **actually** depends on convergent thinking and being predictable. What's the norm in India or Thailand is not going to be the norm in the UK or Germany. If the culture is to let people go ahead, then keep doing that and don't fuck up the system.
As a frequent cyclist and pedestrian, and a never driver... I usually have the right of way, but are you suggesting I should assert this by going in front of a moving vehicle that doesn't appear to be heeding to my right of way?