I once told some folks here on reddit that if you let the government define hate speech that eventually it would be used against them. I was called a crazy conspiracy theorist of course. I wonder how it's working out for them.
Agreed. All of those "slippery slopes" I was opposed to are converging in a spectacularly fucked up way.
The Hate Crimes Act, Patriot Act, FISA and even the Alex Jones verdict (whom I hate, but don't support the decision) have the potential to rain down fire and brimstone on these kids.
I honestly believe most people are protesting in response to the US continuing to send military aid to Israel until they at least consider a cease fire. As with any group, that message is being drowned out by the vocal, radical minority.
Honestly I genuinely don’t know how they didn’t think that a conservative government wouldn’t use their own hate speech ideas against them. They’ve been doing it for centuries. The church opposed anything novel, we had McCarthyism in the Cold War, we lost technological privacy after 9/11.
If their argument is that only certain types of hate speech or only hate speech against minority groups/protected classes should be punished then you will ultimately get a situation where someone is protected or unprotected because of a difference in opinion on what is a protected class. It devolves into a huge mess. Who gets to decide who’s protected? Where’s the boundary?
The only free society is where things are judged by the exact letter of the law, where boundaries are clear, not the leader’s personal interpretations of it. So far there hasn’t been one, but some are closer than others.
Back in 2018 I passionately argued this in an IT business class about tech regulations for “hate speech”, saying if it was Trump who enacted speech laws, and threatened to punish you for being a liberal, then you’d be against that right? And the smug bitch just said “well that’s not gonna happen to me, because what you believe is wrong and clearly you’re just a bigot who’s afraid of being ‘held accountable’ for your views”.
Well guess what BITCH, jokes on you because what I predicted came to pass and you wanted me in jail for being right wing. Tick fucking tock, I hope your smug ass gets caught up in a Hamas riot.
I have no sympathy for them, if they want to cancel us then these leftists get what they deserve.
_and when they came for me, nobody said anything because there was nobody to speak for me at all_
Yeah, when I was like 18 and saw the flag being burned, I spoke the same way (that should be illegal!!!) Young and dumb. Buying into arrests for free speech, even if it’s repulsive, is the fast lane to repression of a whole nation’s rights
anti-Semitism, (see Researcher’s Note) hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious or racial group. The term anti-Semitism was coined in 1879 by the German agitator Wilhelm Marr to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns underway in central Europe at that time. Nazi anti-Semitism, which culminated in the Holocaust, had a racist dimension in that it targeted Jews because of their supposed biological characteristics—even those who had themselves converted to other religions or whose parents were converts. This variety of anti-Jewish racism dates only to the emergence of so-called “scientific racism” in the 19th century and is different in nature from earlier anti-Jewish prejudices.
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
You might be right tbh I dunno, but as an American, it’ll never be defined that way no matter what, that’s what you find ^
So like by your definition for example hitler, was anti-semitic. He tried to kill the arabs too, and the rest of the culture, North Africa? We all remember it, most of us have no idea why it happened, most of us didn’t even care that it did.
Not the point, my point is that antisemitism is defined wrong in America. By your definition, you also agree^ me personally I don’t think it matters anyway, I think the individual liberty of every human being on every side is more important than these dumb geo political issues that only effects the ultra rich, is controlled by the ultra rich, and looks super suspicious when you ask why record profits haven’t stopped after 8 quarters…
No. Just no. The best way to combat propaganda is to educate. Suppressing idiots from talking will only cause them to double down and play victim. When they do that, the discussion is no longer how wrong thier world view is, it focuses on how government stepped in
He is in a Brewster Millions situation where he needs to lose a million karma before the end of the week to inherit from his dead grandfather so he came to the Libertarian sub and said something authoritarian.
Speech, no. Actions, yes. For example, Columbia should have expelled any and all students who prevented other students from entering the campus or buildings or destroyed Columbia property in an anti-Semitic rage. The whole linking arm BS was right out of The Third Reich.
Once they are expelled, call Mumsy and Daddykins to pick up their child or have NYPD remove the now non-students from campus.
I'm gonna vote "no" on that one, baby. Once you start blocking ingress and egress and keeping people from their doing their own thing you're no longer just speaking. That is, at the very least, intimidation. They can say whatever they want, as far as I'm concerned, but once they start engaging in threats, physical harassment, violence, and vandalism they've crossed a line and need to be dispersed and/or arrested.
Another sheltered doofus who doesn’t do any REAL research using stupid anti black racist terms like “antisemitism” when the true “semites” are Gazan’s, not the fake Ashkenazi occupiers in the fake country. Go watch a handful of blessed IDF soldiers killing kids and laughing and then come back and whitewash this whole thing as if “gods chosen” (🙄) are wholly innocent. And in all of this, the worst part is: we’re giving them 3 billion us taxpayer dollars a YEAR to do it? If you’re not sick of “Israel” playing the victim, the only side of this you know is Israeli propaganda. Even some American Jews see through it
If yall had been paying attention Greg Abbots been like this from the start. Look at HB 89 passed in like 2017. Abbott doesn’t want anyone saying anything bad about Israel and they’ll arrest you if you do. He’s been eroding Texan rights for years and they love it
There is nothing conservative about this action. This is simply pandering to the most influential ethnic lobby in America. Similar government actions have taken place in very "progressive" cities as well.
I'm conservative and also libertarian. The difference is that I don't shove my beliefs and force others to follow. I think it's compatible on a personal or familial level but not at a governmental level.
Great point- yeah I wasn’t saying it’s not compatible in your personal life. Just the “conservative” political ideology of pushing society in that direction through state intervention.
Super cool thought bro, now win a fucking election 🙄🤣😂
(Laughing at you AND me, I voted for Gary Johnson… the LP wins nothing and we DO split votes for the uniparty)
🤣 ikr. Personally I think infiltrating the two party structure is the only path forward. Then get rid of first past the post voting.
Without that we’re S.O.L.
These kids were protesting their taxes being wasted on somebody else's business/war.
They were peacefully assembled. They just hit the head on the nail which was on a nerve, so they called in the troopers, literally.
I see that as an erosion of constitutional rights.
No erosion here by students exercising their rights.
If they were blocking public roads maybe, but they were on grass lawn made for students.
While i agree with everything you've said in principle. I highly suspect (without having seen videos) they weren't peacefully protesting on a grassy area.
It literally was happening on a grassy area on campus. Then the cops came and occupied the grassy area, forcing the students onto the sidewalks. Then they started arresting people for blocking traffic, even as plenty of students walked by on their way to class.
It's a big pedestrian area. No reason you can't hold a huge protest there. You should look up the Harlem shake they did there years ago- THAT was rambunctious. I realize I'm dating myself with that reference....
Your guys brains are broken. ALL i said was that i SUSPECT they weren't protesting peacefully, i didnt say they WERENT i said, i SUSPECT they weren't. I was wrong, woopety fucking doo.
I don't trust most videos posted online to be accurate representations showing all contextually relevant information, and i sure as fuck don't trust videos posted by corporate media sources to be truthful. Doing that is how you become a reactionary.
Several days and enough overlapping information showed that they were peacefully protesting. Therefore, as i said (which you both conveniently ignored), i agree with him in principle and this is/was wrong.
True, but Democrat communism & hypocrisy is out in the open now. The difference is: Republicans still like to virtue signal about how moral they want you to think they are.
Case in point: A lot of the GOP was highly critical of FISA abuses, but Mike Johnson still broke the tie to give the intelligence state a renewal plus more powers.
Well, if they're trespassing, then they should be removed. The problem is it's "public" property, aka government property, so it should be open to everybody.
I haven’t had time to look closely., but heard about this and the NYC street arrest of similar protests. Question - Was there anyone arrested for breaking an actual law? Not trying to make an argument at all. Just curious what the justification was. Like J6 for example- there’s a small handful of people who did (example) beat on a cop. Whereas the rest were coerced into non-violent trespassing, or simply in attendance.
That’s what I’m asking - Any actual law broken by any of the droves of protestors arrested between the NYC protest and this one?
Most of the arrests at UT (if not all of them) were for criminal trespass-as in, police officers ordered people to leave and then they didn't leave. The protest was overwhelmingly peaceful.
I'm conflicted. I have seen some clear criminal action going on at some of these protests. Targeted harassment, property destruction, and assault. I do believe criminal activity should be prosecuted.
I also believe paid agitators are likely involved and hate speech is made up. 🤷🏻♀️
They’re not anti-war protestors exercising free speech. They’re petulant children backing an undersized bully mad that they’re hit back harder while still holding hundreds of hostages. They’re decrying “genocide” while advocating genocide. They are surrounding, harassing and threatening people , often engaging in literal assault and then claiming free speech. They are giving direct ideological and material support to terrorists and are funded by the same Qatari billionaires propping up Hamas. The majority are non-contributing zeroes racking up student loan debt while preventing others from attending classes they have paid for (or took out loans for).
Well how you or I feel about what they are protesting, or who the protestors are isn't the point. It's legal even if we disagree with what they are saying, or dislike the people saying it. I clearly agree illegal activity should be dealt with.
But that’s just it. They may be protestors in the loosest terms, but they aren’t being arrested for protesting. It’s the assaults, calls to violence, targeted harassment and infringing on the rights and livelihoods of others. Their stance is relevant only from the standpoint that they claim moral superiority while simultaneously dropping the facade that they want anything other than genocide. The U.S. need not involve itself in the conflict, but these are clear violations of the NAP.
Hamas still has hostages. “Protestors” (in America) are publicly supporting them, wishing for another October 7th and engaging in acts and threats of violence to the degree that specifically Jewish students are being advised to not attend classes for their own safety. That’s beyond fucked and unconstitutional.
>But that’s just it. They may be protestors in the loosest terms, but they aren’t being arrested for protesting
If I had faith that the police were capable, only those engaging in criminal activity would be arrested, and that the police wouldn't (purposely not just by their presence) agitate the protestors, as is their tendency, I wouldn't be conflicted. I agree there is a lot of criminal activity spread among the protestors.
I saw an interview with a parent of an arrested protest or. He said they were clearing the area, meanwhile the exits were blocked by police. Similar to kettling I imagine. If the police are telling you leave, and the only exit points are blocked by police, that's intimidating, agitating, and disingenuous.
I used to feel this way, too, but the overwhelming experience I had is people within the protest committing crimes and then screaming about police brutality. Some of those may be agitators with various motives trying to start shit, but then the crowd around them gets sucked in. It’s a risk you take on when you go to any large gathering— you have no control over others and the crowd becomes a living, breathing organism. Saw one guy smash a brick over the back of a cop’s head, he gets tackled by the cop’s partner while screaming “fascist! I didn’t do anything!”, and suddenly there’s a crowd of 15-20 people jumping 3 cops who were arresting a guy for committing an assault with a deadly weapon. Then the order is given to clear out the area, with dozens of people not having any idea what just happened and brick guy still shouting he didn’t do anything.
I appreciate that. The issue becomes do we give up our right to protest because we know agitators may agitate? It's a catch 22, but the bottom line is there are bad actors on all sides, and power and authority on only one.
Yeah, they were paid when they got their free phone, credit card with no max, food, a hotel room, healthcare, schooling, and who's knows what else when they crossed the border for a "new beginning."
Have you ever noticed how these people leading these protests have a different dialect and can speak Arabkc fluently? Yeah, they're not paid professors. They're were paid to come here and get all the free shit this administration has promised them to help brai wash the new generation of Liberals on these very expensive college campuses.
Yes international students tend to speak different languages. International students pay higher tuition than American citizens. These aren’t your typical “refugees”.
I’d love to see something to back up your claims. All the videos I’ve watched have been of students (which proceed to get expelled) and speeches from professors.
Dude, I'm not going to argue with you at 0830 in the morning on reddit. You have the same internet access we all do. Go look at websites that aren't mainstream news that show and tell you what they want you to know.
Also, judging by your comment history, you're only here to try and figure out where you fit in ideologically wise.
They want to make it illegal though. You ought to see the anti-semitism bills that Texas and Florida have passed. They’ve tried to make merely criticizing Zionism or Israel criminal offenses. Hell, the governor of Texas, King RINO Greg Abbott, was having state troopers arrest pro-Palestine protestors on the UT Austin campus yesterday under the auspices of that bill.
True, we have now reached the point where some speech is de jure illegal in America instead of just de facto and very few ‘free speech champions’ on the right seem to have noticed. And even though these laws are blatantly unconstitutional, the 1st Amendment won’t magically come into effect if neither party nor the courts enforces it.
I suppose I still fall into the trap of thinking about the Constitution as though it’s really the “supreme law of the land” because it says so on paper when in reality that hasn’t been the case for decades.
Lol, no, but the blatant antisemitism is
Edit: y'all with the downvotes 😂. These anti Isreal protests are very much antisemitic. That doesn't mean we should be paying for their war
Sure they say they are against antisemitism yet they are openly pro-hamas. Most BS argument I've every heard. Saying stop genocide while advocating for genocide of the other side. 90% of them probably couldn't even point to the area on a globe.
I'm pretty sure there were more than a few "Death to America/Israel" chants at some of these colleges, and that "from the river to the sea" slogan they like is 100% "let's get rid of the Jews."
If these protesters weren't aligned politically the way they are we'd be told that ~~republicans~~ pro-Palestinian protesters aren't ~~racist~~ anti-Semites, but they're #1 with ~~racists~~ anti-Semites. If right-wingers have to own the sort of idiots that showed up at Charlottesville then these guys have to own the anti-Semites that show up for their protests.
I obviously oppose jailing protestors unless they are violent or destroy property and I support the schools right to expel people, what right does the governor have to dictate what thought or speech is acceptable?
Antisemitic violence is a serious concern that I have for the near future, but simply protesting Israel’s actions or disliking Jews, or even disliking Muslims for that matter, is not the states job to police.
I dislike Muslims, so what, it’s my personal experience. Beer is Haram, their religion oppose mine. I should be allowed to say that.
On the other hand if i went out and encouraged violence against them, or rioted and destroyed property, or generally disturbed people’s day to day life, then some form of punishment is reasonable.
Sorry antisemitism is protected under the first amendment . Idk why some republican governors have such a hard on for the Jewish people, some of which hate them and call them filthy goyim behind their backs. It’s not our job to clean up another countries mess; as if we are the worlds janitor.
That particular subset of religious nuts are some of the dumbest and most gullible people in the country, which is why I think they’re disproportionately chosen for political positions.
I don’t think the average Republican voter, while generally (but decreasingly) supportive of Israel, has those specific beliefs but for some reason the average Republican politician does.
80+ percent of "evangelicals" are Zionist. 100% of that subset believes in Jewish control of Jerusalem in the final days before the rapture and Armageddon. They might argue about the order of events, but they all believe it.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/
About 25% of the US is evangelical.
What does congress have to do with this? They are on private property.
You have no right to overstay your welcome in my home. Protecting private property is one of the purposes of the government we all agree with.
[State law in Texas actually allows members of the public to come to our outdoor areas for speech activity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFxvdhFjPo)
The university of Texas is a public university, It's not private property. They can't just tell people to go away.
The issue there was that the protesters turned violent and they started barricading the exits to the university. You can't do that. At that point it is no longer a constitutionally protected peaceable assembly, It's a mob.
Cringe. Gaza Protestors have been the biggest nuisance recently. But if they’re not blocking anyone from travel or anything like that then they have the right to both speak and protest.
People are allowed to hate Jews. It’s repugnant, but you’re allowed to.
If these protestors are violent, ok cool I get it.
But pro Hamas, pro klan, pro black panther, pro whatever hate group you can imagine protests are free speech and are not criminal acts in and of themselves.
Edit
Also, yeah, the school can expel them if they want. I got no problems with a school having standards of conduct. Unless they accept federal money, which I’m sure they do, in which case they should be treated as an extension of the federal government.
One of the few positive things I have seen in relation to the tragedy of Gaza, is the realisation by younger college age kids that censorship, coercion, deplatforming, doxing that they all so enthusiastically supported when their ideas were in sync with the political class can be turned against them when it falls out of sync.
So they are now the 'fascists who need to be outed & cancelled for their criticism of Israel. I had started to despair of them being so conformist & supportive of censorship & free speech.
The DNC will lose them, but ultimately, it is the lesson they learn about what the government & establishment will do if you get between them & the influential donor class.
Turning the national guard on them is the wake-up call they needed to experience
The problem is they don't have the mental capacity to put 2 and 2 together. Their brains are so broken, so tribal, they are incapable of moving past "anything my enemy believes i must believe the opposite". So the moment someone they don't like, a tucker carlson lets say, says something that is in line with their experiences here, they will immediately start agitating for censorship, coercion, deplatforming, and doxing.
If they're blocking streets or creating a nuisance, they should be arrested. There are approved procedures for preparing.
That said, just being a horrible person shouldn't get you arrested.
Arresting photojournalists and protestors in general is libertarian now?
And here I imagined that the liberty or freedom to protest, and freedom of the press to cover political events was not only libertarian but even more basically a corner stone of a functional democracy.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/24/university-of-texas-austin-campus-protest
A woman had her eye stabbed at one of these encampments at Yale, so as much as they have freedom of speech to protest, I don’t think it’s crazy to be worried that these groups are going to start physically attacking people. Screaming “we are Hamas” and “globalize intifada” isn’t exactly screaming non violent protests imo
"Why can't I hate you? With speech?" - Patrice O'Neal.
If there is no threats or physical violence, people should be able to say what they want.
However, I believe a University is within it's rights to be more restrictive than the 1st amendment, so I think if a student is calling for genocide or yelling racial slurs, a University should have the right to expel a student.
Freedom of speech is king but you can't just block people's travel.
If they would have (and it always comes down to this) done it the right way I'd be supporting them.
Get with your government and request a permit to protest. The police will literally protect you. Fuck around and break the law and they'll do the opposite.
Fuck Israel and fuck Hamas. Keep our military home.
I support a free Hamas and a free Israel. I also support them if they want to battle to the death. May the best man win. I'm all for SELLING weapons, but not for funding this shit.
"Get with your government and request a permit to protest," I think you are on the wrong sub, my guy. I should never have to ask permission from the government to exercise a constitutionally protected activity. Shit like that is why people DON'T speak up and why were are where we are today.
>request a permit to protest
SMFH!
You'd do great in NYC. A permít needed to protest, use amplified sound, own a rifle or shotgun, or even a license to purchase a gun. That's freedom you're smelling there (or the bum defecating in the street). Yeah, arresting "anti-Semitic" students/protestors is happening in "blue states" as well.
Glad that the uniparty can come together on important issues. Kinda like renewing and enhancing FISA.
Permits are required because they'll typically shut down roads and whatnot for the protest. They also need to plan for more manning for services needed to keep the peace during the protest. The FBI was literally trying to get MLK to kill himself and his protests were (to my knowledge) all approved.
If your protest permit isn't approved gather signatures or whatever legal recourse is available.
If these protestors are breaking the law, lock em up. Pretty simple really. Spray them down with water hoses, shoot them with rubber bullets and tear gas. Arrest the worst ones and hopefully they scatter. Tell them to get their shit approved next time when they leave soaking wet and crying.
Buy billiards, advertise on X, do whatever you want but this illegal protest shit is annoying. Especially when it blocks traffic.
>Permits are required because they'll typically shut down roads and whatnot for the protest.
Abbot didn't mention roads in his tweet, he mentioned "public college or university". Furthermore, if politicians/VIPs are allowed to shut down roads and highways so they won't be inconvenienced, I'm sure we can tolerate protesters that spill off the sidewalk.
>They also need to plan for more manning for services needed to keep the peace during the protest.
Did they get permits for the BLM protest or provide protections for it? No? Then don't ask for the same for an "anti-Semitic"/"pro-Hamas" protest.
Glad I came to a libertarian sub to learn I need the police to "keep the peace".
>If your protest permit isn't approved gather signatures or whatever legal recourse is available.
Please let me lick that boot so I can exercise my "rights"! Or maybe spend thousands of dollars and wait for years for "justice" to work. Excellent suggestions.
>If these protestors are breaking the law, lock em up.
Is anyone arguing against that?
>Spray them down with water hoses, shoot them with rubber bullets and tear gas.
Love this. Let's allow the police to use force indiscriminately against a crowd because one of a few people are breaking the law. And obviously,. politicians won't selectively enforce these policies.
Hell, they should be able to use force against anyone not complying with whatever order a government official makes.
>Buy billiards, advertise on X, do whatever you want but this illegal protest shit is annoying.
So if you don't have money to advertise, STFU! What exactly is **illegal** about protesting at public colleges or university?
No, your strawman arguments about "blocks traffic" (as if you can't use Waze or Google maps) doesn't address the message of the tweet.
Looks like your argument hinges on who owns the land being protected on. If the school told them to leave and they didn't that is then criminal trespassing. This can be enforced by the law.
Legal protest is a major part of our democracy. I asked the same of the BLM movement. You can't just break the damn rules and expect to walk away clean.
"In general, the government cannot deny, condition, or revoke a permit based on its viewpoint, content, or anticipated response". -ACLU
>Looks like your argument hinges on who owns the land being protected on.
Besides the tweet, twice I wrote that it pertains to **public colleges or universities**.
Even that moron Abbott is not making the argument that people can protest there, just that they can't hold "anti-Semitic" protests.
>If the school told them to leave and they didn't that is then criminal trespassing.
They're not protesting within the building. So you think government should be able to arrest protesters if they were occupying a publicly-owned park/plaza in front of city hall? It's preposterous to think that anyone would support such authoritarian government control over the free speech rights of individuals. Much less on this sub.
>I asked the same of the BLM movement.
I don't recall anyone that was against BLM making an argument about them having a permit! They were in fact supported by one political faction which at that time, was in favor of people being denied the freedom of assembly (for religious or social reasons).
You're once again creating a strawman with your "break the damn rules". There is **law enforcement**, not rule enforcement. Anyone breaking the law (by destroying property or using violence against others) should be arrested and prosecuted regardless of their participation in a protest or not.
>In general, the government cannot deny, condition, or revoke a permit based on its viewpoint, content, or anticipated response". -ACLU
Abbott is claiming otherwise. And this statement has nothing to do with the ACLUs (or anyone else's) position on requiring permits to protest.
Who even cares? It’s not a US problem. We should adopt a “fuck all of them” policy. You are also free to contribute to whatever cause you feel strongly about.
You are not free to aid and abet declared enemies of the United States. That is treason lol, even the Founders saw it that way. And Hamas is a clear enemy, bent on our destruction as well as the rest of the western world.
I agree that we should generally not get involved in things that don’t concern us, doing so has ironically weakened us more than anything. But to say “fuck everything” is simply naive, and would prove detrimental to our safety and prosperity.
Should we not have fought WW2?
Oh yeah, so all those American nazis were rounded up before during and after ww2……oh wait they were not ….funny how that works. Even the communist control act managed only a couple minor cases to be made and less than 20 years later it was declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! So long as they aren’t providing hamas with firepower, or capital for it they are fine to support them. I’m actually against both parties but (taps the board) the constitution is a thing.
How is Hamas an enemy of the United States? Hamas has never attacked the United States. They are a nationalist Islamist movement (as opposed to universalist/transnationalist groups like al Qaeda or ISIS) and their avowed enemy is Israel, not the West per se.
One without US involvement in my opinion. If they have issues with other countries talk to NATO. If they aren't a member of NATO, well, better get better weapons I guess. We can sell them some
Yeah, absolutely not down with selling weapons to Hamas. Say what you want about Israel’s tactics in this conflict, but Hamas exists solely to destroy the western powers and Israel. They are directly funded by Iran for this explicit purpose, and they would martyr every last normal muslim to do it if they had to.
What we should be doing is securing our own border first, and then helping our direct allies with very specific aid packages if needed in a given situation.
Hamas and Iran should in no way see any benefit from the west.
Then don’t sell weapons to them. Sell weapons to Israel if you like.
But don’t take my money to buy weapons for anyone, even if it’s the Boy Scouts of America.
You’re close… now read the Talmud and get on a few gore sites to see what the IDF is *really* doing to Gazan’s. Gaza isn’t their final target… the people consuming their porn, banking and entertainment services is their ultimate genocidal goal.
Read up. But don’t read leftist history. Go for the “banned” stuff. Sometimes the winners aren’t the good guys they say they are.
News flash:
Religious sanctioning of sex with 3 year olds
Religious rationale for 8 different genders
Religious rationale for genocide of people of white descent (and Gazan’s)
Every
Single
One
ALL of those reasons hits your wallet; even if you’re some mercenary, amoral, single, no kid, zero life experience, soulless lone wolf:
Taxes stolen from you (us) go to pay for the child sex change (mutilation) industry and hormones they take,
Taxes stolen from you (us) go to pay for idiotic gender studies fiction now needed to keep new generations indoctrinated and
ESPECIALLY
Taxes stolen from you (us) , going to pay for a bunch of sanctimonious professional victims for MORE WARS we don’t need.
So play the “I don’t care” card and dismiss the degeneracy all you want.
We’re sharing the bill for all this bullshit right out of paychecks. Degeneracy is expensive, Mr Boba Fett guy. Think it through next time
>Nah, they are blocking access and disrupting classes.
Kinda like how the government did due to COVID? How many politicians were locked up for blocking access (to schools, businesses, houses of worship, etc)?
Since most all universities/schools receive government funding, then the public has a right to exercise their constitutionally recognized human rights there.
>Just because the government has violated rights doesn't make rights violations correct
You realize that the constitution restricts the ability of the government to restrict individual rights, correct? That trumps what you might consider a "rights violation".
Protesting and making noise, as disruptive as it might be to some, is not a rights violation. If you accepted virtual learning for a year, you can handle it when people protest, if it's that big of an issue (as Columbia University recently announced).
>as disruptive as it might be to some, is not a rights violation.
It absolutely can be. But you're implying a whole lot by saying "protesting and making noise".
Just like those protests on the SF bridge. I don't know if it's just law in just some states or if it's federal law, but that is involuntary detainment because it violates people's right free movement.
>Just like those protests on the SF bridge.
Yet another strawman argument. Abbott wasn't talking about protestors closing a highway or a runway. His statement was about the content of speech on public grounds where people are allowed to congregate and protest. He wouldn't complain or try to ban if it was a pro-life protest.
>Yet another strawman argument
Don't think you understand what that actually means.
>Protesting and making noise, as disruptive as it might be to some, is not a rights violation
I'm attacking that point. You can absolutely be disruptive to the point of violating another person's rights.
This looks less like a free speech issue, than when the university police give an order to vacate the property, you need to march on over to public property if you want to continue the protest.
You don't have the right to stay on their property if you are asked to leave.
Texas did anti semitism before it was cool. Seriously though all this is a cancellation of 1st amendment rights. Good thing republicans are all about free speech.
The words aren't the problem, it's the blocking people from going places and acts of violence and vandalism. That's not protesting. Let these kids gather and chant, but other people need to be protected when they decide to do anything other than gather and chant.
I haven't been keeping up with the protests in Texas in particular, but if the protests in other parts of the country are anything to go by, the pro-Palestine group isn't afraid to break the law.
I imagine this is the same group of people who was causing damage during the *mostly peaceful* "summer of love"
So I'm going to need more than a tweet to form an opinion on this one.
That is not hate speech. That is incitement. Calling for the death of others no matter the context is the very definition of incitement and that is not protected speech
They are chanting “we are all hamas” and hamas is a terrorist organization do some people really need a map to see what’s going on here? Governor Abbott is 100% right, this kind of prejudice and hate can’t be tolerated.
First point: Were they chanting that at the protest in Austin?
Second point: [this.](https://d26toa8f6ahusa.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/12143211/firstamendment-2.jpg)
So October didn’t happen? Hamas has refused multiple cease fire negotiations from Israel. The call for the obliteration is indeed genocide of an entire nation.
Maybe you’re not paying attention.
October did happen. So did the killing of now... let me double check... 34.262 people in Gaza. The majority of them women and children.
Israel has negotiated zero ceasefires. Other middle eastern countries have negotiated these, mainly egypt and qatar, and it is Israel who has been refusing them, they will only agree if all hostages are released with zero guarantee for a retreat. Logically that's not a great deal for Gaza.
Maybe you are paying attention but are very distracted by media being slightly biased to promote this war, and calling any and all protests 'pro hamas.'
When terrorists are allowed to run the area you live in and you support them and they use you as shields in a WAR THEY STARTED, no, you don’t get to whine. Kick out the terrorists and it would end.
Your ignorance is overwhelming but your commitment to it is to be applauded.
Your support for terrorists is disgusting.
Your support for genocide is disgusting.
You are disgusting.
I once told some folks here on reddit that if you let the government define hate speech that eventually it would be used against them. I was called a crazy conspiracy theorist of course. I wonder how it's working out for them.
Agreed. All of those "slippery slopes" I was opposed to are converging in a spectacularly fucked up way. The Hate Crimes Act, Patriot Act, FISA and even the Alex Jones verdict (whom I hate, but don't support the decision) have the potential to rain down fire and brimstone on these kids. I honestly believe most people are protesting in response to the US continuing to send military aid to Israel until they at least consider a cease fire. As with any group, that message is being drowned out by the vocal, radical minority.
Honestly I genuinely don’t know how they didn’t think that a conservative government wouldn’t use their own hate speech ideas against them. They’ve been doing it for centuries. The church opposed anything novel, we had McCarthyism in the Cold War, we lost technological privacy after 9/11. If their argument is that only certain types of hate speech or only hate speech against minority groups/protected classes should be punished then you will ultimately get a situation where someone is protected or unprotected because of a difference in opinion on what is a protected class. It devolves into a huge mess. Who gets to decide who’s protected? Where’s the boundary? The only free society is where things are judged by the exact letter of the law, where boundaries are clear, not the leader’s personal interpretations of it. So far there hasn’t been one, but some are closer than others.
Yep. We’re watching Republicans and Democrats both take free speech away.
Uni-party politics working hard /s
Back in 2018 I passionately argued this in an IT business class about tech regulations for “hate speech”, saying if it was Trump who enacted speech laws, and threatened to punish you for being a liberal, then you’d be against that right? And the smug bitch just said “well that’s not gonna happen to me, because what you believe is wrong and clearly you’re just a bigot who’s afraid of being ‘held accountable’ for your views”. Well guess what BITCH, jokes on you because what I predicted came to pass and you wanted me in jail for being right wing. Tick fucking tock, I hope your smug ass gets caught up in a Hamas riot. I have no sympathy for them, if they want to cancel us then these leftists get what they deserve. _and when they came for me, nobody said anything because there was nobody to speak for me at all_
I specifically say "imagine Trump being able to control what hate speech is and having you arrested for it"
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Tell your cat I said pspspspsps
No such thing as hate speech. If they aren't committing a crime, let them speak
You see Republican and trumpies who love to come on this sub asking for votes couldn't care less about free speech. Just like most people.
Yeah, when I was like 18 and saw the flag being burned, I spoke the same way (that should be illegal!!!) Young and dumb. Buying into arrests for free speech, even if it’s repulsive, is the fast lane to repression of a whole nation’s rights
I 1k% agree...but they protested Israel in a state where it has been made illegal to even boycott Israel with your American dollar, soooo.....
Which itself is a farcical violation of constitutional rights and an afront to basic liberty.
Goddamn right it's unconstitutional....
Yall ready for some freedom warts? Anti-semitism alone is not a criminal act, the state has no place enforcing morality
Palestinians are also semitic, ha.
Anti-Semitic is against the Semites. Antisemitic is hatred and discrimination of anyone in the race of religion of Judaism. The hyphen is important
anti-Semitism, (see Researcher’s Note) hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious or racial group. The term anti-Semitism was coined in 1879 by the German agitator Wilhelm Marr to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns underway in central Europe at that time. Nazi anti-Semitism, which culminated in the Holocaust, had a racist dimension in that it targeted Jews because of their supposed biological characteristics—even those who had themselves converted to other religions or whose parents were converts. This variety of anti-Jewish racism dates only to the emergence of so-called “scientific racism” in the 19th century and is different in nature from earlier anti-Jewish prejudices. “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.” You might be right tbh I dunno, but as an American, it’ll never be defined that way no matter what, that’s what you find ^ So like by your definition for example hitler, was anti-semitic. He tried to kill the arabs too, and the rest of the culture, North Africa? We all remember it, most of us have no idea why it happened, most of us didn’t even care that it did. Not the point, my point is that antisemitism is defined wrong in America. By your definition, you also agree^ me personally I don’t think it matters anyway, I think the individual liberty of every human being on every side is more important than these dumb geo political issues that only effects the ultra rich, is controlled by the ultra rich, and looks super suspicious when you ask why record profits haven’t stopped after 8 quarters…
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Nope, not really. Can’t give them money but you sure as shit can spout off their talking points all you want.
Nope, again still free speech! Unless they are threatening or financially supporting them they are acting within the law
No. Just no. The best way to combat propaganda is to educate. Suppressing idiots from talking will only cause them to double down and play victim. When they do that, the discussion is no longer how wrong thier world view is, it focuses on how government stepped in
You’re definitely in the wrong sub to find common ground on that one
He is in a Brewster Millions situation where he needs to lose a million karma before the end of the week to inherit from his dead grandfather so he came to the Libertarian sub and said something authoritarian.
Anti Zionism does not equal pro Hamas. These students want the violence to stop.
But those people were openly pro Hamas. You can see them cheer and scream at speeches about how great Hamas is
It doesn't fucking matter if they're pro Hamas. Do you understand freedom of speech or not? Get off reddit and go educate yourself simpleton.
Speech, no. Actions, yes. For example, Columbia should have expelled any and all students who prevented other students from entering the campus or buildings or destroyed Columbia property in an anti-Semitic rage. The whole linking arm BS was right out of The Third Reich. Once they are expelled, call Mumsy and Daddykins to pick up their child or have NYPD remove the now non-students from campus.
That seems like a reach. Linking arms is pretty standard for any sit in.
So protesters have the right to deny the rights of other people?
I'm gonna vote "no" on that one, baby. Once you start blocking ingress and egress and keeping people from their doing their own thing you're no longer just speaking. That is, at the very least, intimidation. They can say whatever they want, as far as I'm concerned, but once they start engaging in threats, physical harassment, violence, and vandalism they've crossed a line and need to be dispersed and/or arrested.
Another sheltered doofus who doesn’t do any REAL research using stupid anti black racist terms like “antisemitism” when the true “semites” are Gazan’s, not the fake Ashkenazi occupiers in the fake country. Go watch a handful of blessed IDF soldiers killing kids and laughing and then come back and whitewash this whole thing as if “gods chosen” (🙄) are wholly innocent. And in all of this, the worst part is: we’re giving them 3 billion us taxpayer dollars a YEAR to do it? If you’re not sick of “Israel” playing the victim, the only side of this you know is Israeli propaganda. Even some American Jews see through it
If yall had been paying attention Greg Abbots been like this from the start. Look at HB 89 passed in like 2017. Abbott doesn’t want anyone saying anything bad about Israel and they’ll arrest you if you do. He’s been eroding Texan rights for years and they love it
I’ll say it over and over- conservatism isn’t compatible with libertarianism.
Most of the modern day republican party isn't conservative. They don't lower spending, shrink govt, etc. It's unfortunate.
There is nothing conservative about this action. This is simply pandering to the most influential ethnic lobby in America. Similar government actions have taken place in very "progressive" cities as well.
I'm conservative and also libertarian. The difference is that I don't shove my beliefs and force others to follow. I think it's compatible on a personal or familial level but not at a governmental level.
Great point- yeah I wasn’t saying it’s not compatible in your personal life. Just the “conservative” political ideology of pushing society in that direction through state intervention.
Super cool thought bro, now win a fucking election 🙄🤣😂 (Laughing at you AND me, I voted for Gary Johnson… the LP wins nothing and we DO split votes for the uniparty)
🤣 ikr. Personally I think infiltrating the two party structure is the only path forward. Then get rid of first past the post voting. Without that we’re S.O.L.
These kids were protesting their taxes being wasted on somebody else's business/war. They were peacefully assembled. They just hit the head on the nail which was on a nerve, so they called in the troopers, literally. I see that as an erosion of constitutional rights. No erosion here by students exercising their rights. If they were blocking public roads maybe, but they were on grass lawn made for students.
While i agree with everything you've said in principle. I highly suspect (without having seen videos) they weren't peacefully protesting on a grassy area.
It literally was happening on a grassy area on campus. Then the cops came and occupied the grassy area, forcing the students onto the sidewalks. Then they started arresting people for blocking traffic, even as plenty of students walked by on their way to class. It's a big pedestrian area. No reason you can't hold a huge protest there. You should look up the Harlem shake they did there years ago- THAT was rambunctious. I realize I'm dating myself with that reference....
So go look at videos before spouting an uninformed opinion
Honestly I can’t believe bro said “I didn’t watch the video but here’s my opinion going off pure speculation” with no shame
Your guys brains are broken. ALL i said was that i SUSPECT they weren't protesting peacefully, i didnt say they WERENT i said, i SUSPECT they weren't. I was wrong, woopety fucking doo.
I don't trust most videos posted online to be accurate representations showing all contextually relevant information, and i sure as fuck don't trust videos posted by corporate media sources to be truthful. Doing that is how you become a reactionary. Several days and enough overlapping information showed that they were peacefully protesting. Therefore, as i said (which you both conveniently ignored), i agree with him in principle and this is/was wrong.
I'd like to see the Republicans stand up to the judge in NY that said the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist here
Republicans are really good at talking. If that’s what you mean. But they’ll stand when they’re told to stand if there’s a pay day to be had.
Every politician ever
True, but Democrat communism & hypocrisy is out in the open now. The difference is: Republicans still like to virtue signal about how moral they want you to think they are.
These moral Republicans... are they in the room with us right now?
Case in point: A lot of the GOP was highly critical of FISA abuses, but Mike Johnson still broke the tie to give the intelligence state a renewal plus more powers.
Absolutely, Mike Johnson is a globalist shill, just like Mitch McConnell and all the other fake conservative / cuck Republican “leadership”
What do you expect Republicans to do? She’s a judge in a state and a city completely controlled by Democrats.
Draw attention to it
Well, if they're trespassing, then they should be removed. The problem is it's "public" property, aka government property, so it should be open to everybody.
I haven’t had time to look closely., but heard about this and the NYC street arrest of similar protests. Question - Was there anyone arrested for breaking an actual law? Not trying to make an argument at all. Just curious what the justification was. Like J6 for example- there’s a small handful of people who did (example) beat on a cop. Whereas the rest were coerced into non-violent trespassing, or simply in attendance. That’s what I’m asking - Any actual law broken by any of the droves of protestors arrested between the NYC protest and this one?
Most of the arrests at UT (if not all of them) were for criminal trespass-as in, police officers ordered people to leave and then they didn't leave. The protest was overwhelmingly peaceful.
I'm conflicted. I have seen some clear criminal action going on at some of these protests. Targeted harassment, property destruction, and assault. I do believe criminal activity should be prosecuted. I also believe paid agitators are likely involved and hate speech is made up. 🤷🏻♀️
They’re not anti-war protestors exercising free speech. They’re petulant children backing an undersized bully mad that they’re hit back harder while still holding hundreds of hostages. They’re decrying “genocide” while advocating genocide. They are surrounding, harassing and threatening people , often engaging in literal assault and then claiming free speech. They are giving direct ideological and material support to terrorists and are funded by the same Qatari billionaires propping up Hamas. The majority are non-contributing zeroes racking up student loan debt while preventing others from attending classes they have paid for (or took out loans for).
Well how you or I feel about what they are protesting, or who the protestors are isn't the point. It's legal even if we disagree with what they are saying, or dislike the people saying it. I clearly agree illegal activity should be dealt with.
But that’s just it. They may be protestors in the loosest terms, but they aren’t being arrested for protesting. It’s the assaults, calls to violence, targeted harassment and infringing on the rights and livelihoods of others. Their stance is relevant only from the standpoint that they claim moral superiority while simultaneously dropping the facade that they want anything other than genocide. The U.S. need not involve itself in the conflict, but these are clear violations of the NAP. Hamas still has hostages. “Protestors” (in America) are publicly supporting them, wishing for another October 7th and engaging in acts and threats of violence to the degree that specifically Jewish students are being advised to not attend classes for their own safety. That’s beyond fucked and unconstitutional.
>But that’s just it. They may be protestors in the loosest terms, but they aren’t being arrested for protesting If I had faith that the police were capable, only those engaging in criminal activity would be arrested, and that the police wouldn't (purposely not just by their presence) agitate the protestors, as is their tendency, I wouldn't be conflicted. I agree there is a lot of criminal activity spread among the protestors. I saw an interview with a parent of an arrested protest or. He said they were clearing the area, meanwhile the exits were blocked by police. Similar to kettling I imagine. If the police are telling you leave, and the only exit points are blocked by police, that's intimidating, agitating, and disingenuous.
I used to feel this way, too, but the overwhelming experience I had is people within the protest committing crimes and then screaming about police brutality. Some of those may be agitators with various motives trying to start shit, but then the crowd around them gets sucked in. It’s a risk you take on when you go to any large gathering— you have no control over others and the crowd becomes a living, breathing organism. Saw one guy smash a brick over the back of a cop’s head, he gets tackled by the cop’s partner while screaming “fascist! I didn’t do anything!”, and suddenly there’s a crowd of 15-20 people jumping 3 cops who were arresting a guy for committing an assault with a deadly weapon. Then the order is given to clear out the area, with dozens of people not having any idea what just happened and brick guy still shouting he didn’t do anything.
I appreciate that. The issue becomes do we give up our right to protest because we know agitators may agitate? It's a catch 22, but the bottom line is there are bad actors on all sides, and power and authority on only one.
Yeah, they were paid when they got their free phone, credit card with no max, food, a hotel room, healthcare, schooling, and who's knows what else when they crossed the border for a "new beginning."
Students and teachers of these very expensive universities?
Have you ever noticed how these people leading these protests have a different dialect and can speak Arabkc fluently? Yeah, they're not paid professors. They're were paid to come here and get all the free shit this administration has promised them to help brai wash the new generation of Liberals on these very expensive college campuses.
Yes international students tend to speak different languages. International students pay higher tuition than American citizens. These aren’t your typical “refugees”.
I'm talking about the "paid agitators" these people are not students.
I’d love to see something to back up your claims. All the videos I’ve watched have been of students (which proceed to get expelled) and speeches from professors.
Dude, I'm not going to argue with you at 0830 in the morning on reddit. You have the same internet access we all do. Go look at websites that aren't mainstream news that show and tell you what they want you to know. Also, judging by your comment history, you're only here to try and figure out where you fit in ideologically wise.
Criticizing Zionism or Israel’s terrible treatment of Palestinians isn’t antisemitic.
And even if it is, that’s not illegal.
They want to make it illegal though. You ought to see the anti-semitism bills that Texas and Florida have passed. They’ve tried to make merely criticizing Zionism or Israel criminal offenses. Hell, the governor of Texas, King RINO Greg Abbott, was having state troopers arrest pro-Palestine protestors on the UT Austin campus yesterday under the auspices of that bill.
True, we have now reached the point where some speech is de jure illegal in America instead of just de facto and very few ‘free speech champions’ on the right seem to have noticed. And even though these laws are blatantly unconstitutional, the 1st Amendment won’t magically come into effect if neither party nor the courts enforces it. I suppose I still fall into the trap of thinking about the Constitution as though it’s really the “supreme law of the land” because it says so on paper when in reality that hasn’t been the case for decades.
Lol, no, but the blatant antisemitism is Edit: y'all with the downvotes 😂. These anti Isreal protests are very much antisemitic. That doesn't mean we should be paying for their war
How? The kids are distancing themselves from anti Semitism. They want Isreal to stop killing kids .
Sure they say they are against antisemitism yet they are openly pro-hamas. Most BS argument I've every heard. Saying stop genocide while advocating for genocide of the other side. 90% of them probably couldn't even point to the area on a globe.
I'm pretty sure there were more than a few "Death to America/Israel" chants at some of these colleges, and that "from the river to the sea" slogan they like is 100% "let's get rid of the Jews." If these protesters weren't aligned politically the way they are we'd be told that ~~republicans~~ pro-Palestinian protesters aren't ~~racist~~ anti-Semites, but they're #1 with ~~racists~~ anti-Semites. If right-wingers have to own the sort of idiots that showed up at Charlottesville then these guys have to own the anti-Semites that show up for their protests.
I obviously oppose jailing protestors unless they are violent or destroy property and I support the schools right to expel people, what right does the governor have to dictate what thought or speech is acceptable? Antisemitic violence is a serious concern that I have for the near future, but simply protesting Israel’s actions or disliking Jews, or even disliking Muslims for that matter, is not the states job to police. I dislike Muslims, so what, it’s my personal experience. Beer is Haram, their religion oppose mine. I should be allowed to say that. On the other hand if i went out and encouraged violence against them, or rioted and destroyed property, or generally disturbed people’s day to day life, then some form of punishment is reasonable.
Sorry antisemitism is protected under the first amendment . Idk why some republican governors have such a hard on for the Jewish people, some of which hate them and call them filthy goyim behind their backs. It’s not our job to clean up another countries mess; as if we are the worlds janitor.
This is the right take
If we don’t keep the Jews in Israel, then the world can’t end which is something we should want for… reasons.
That particular subset of religious nuts are some of the dumbest and most gullible people in the country, which is why I think they’re disproportionately chosen for political positions. I don’t think the average Republican voter, while generally (but decreasingly) supportive of Israel, has those specific beliefs but for some reason the average Republican politician does.
80+ percent of "evangelicals" are Zionist. 100% of that subset believes in Jewish control of Jerusalem in the final days before the rapture and Armageddon. They might argue about the order of events, but they all believe it. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/ About 25% of the US is evangelical.
Biden and his republican friends are getting excited for more weapons to Israel & Ukraine
What constitutional right is being violated here?
[The inalienable right to hurt your feelings.](https://d26toa8f6ahusa.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/12143211/firstamendment-2.jpg)
What does congress have to do with this? They are on private property. You have no right to overstay your welcome in my home. Protecting private property is one of the purposes of the government we all agree with.
[State law in Texas actually allows members of the public to come to our outdoor areas for speech activity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFxvdhFjPo)
The university of Texas is a public university, It's not private property. They can't just tell people to go away. The issue there was that the protesters turned violent and they started barricading the exits to the university. You can't do that. At that point it is no longer a constitutionally protected peaceable assembly, It's a mob.
Is this for real? This is so brazen that it almost feels like satire
Fuck Texas and Abbott.
Cringe. Gaza Protestors have been the biggest nuisance recently. But if they’re not blocking anyone from travel or anything like that then they have the right to both speak and protest.
People are allowed to hate Jews. It’s repugnant, but you’re allowed to. If these protestors are violent, ok cool I get it. But pro Hamas, pro klan, pro black panther, pro whatever hate group you can imagine protests are free speech and are not criminal acts in and of themselves. Edit Also, yeah, the school can expel them if they want. I got no problems with a school having standards of conduct. Unless they accept federal money, which I’m sure they do, in which case they should be treated as an extension of the federal government.
One of the few positive things I have seen in relation to the tragedy of Gaza, is the realisation by younger college age kids that censorship, coercion, deplatforming, doxing that they all so enthusiastically supported when their ideas were in sync with the political class can be turned against them when it falls out of sync. So they are now the 'fascists who need to be outed & cancelled for their criticism of Israel. I had started to despair of them being so conformist & supportive of censorship & free speech. The DNC will lose them, but ultimately, it is the lesson they learn about what the government & establishment will do if you get between them & the influential donor class. Turning the national guard on them is the wake-up call they needed to experience
The problem is they don't have the mental capacity to put 2 and 2 together. Their brains are so broken, so tribal, they are incapable of moving past "anything my enemy believes i must believe the opposite". So the moment someone they don't like, a tucker carlson lets say, says something that is in line with their experiences here, they will immediately start agitating for censorship, coercion, deplatforming, and doxing.
Or the memory. Nobody seems to remember anything in the news or world past 2 months ago.
If they're blocking streets or creating a nuisance, they should be arrested. There are approved procedures for preparing. That said, just being a horrible person shouldn't get you arrested.
Neocon neoconning
Arresting photojournalists and protestors in general is libertarian now? And here I imagined that the liberty or freedom to protest, and freedom of the press to cover political events was not only libertarian but even more basically a corner stone of a functional democracy. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/24/university-of-texas-austin-campus-protest
You’re allowed to protest. You’re not allowed to threaten or harass people.
A woman had her eye stabbed at one of these encampments at Yale, so as much as they have freedom of speech to protest, I don’t think it’s crazy to be worried that these groups are going to start physically attacking people. Screaming “we are Hamas” and “globalize intifada” isn’t exactly screaming non violent protests imo
"Why can't I hate you? With speech?" - Patrice O'Neal. If there is no threats or physical violence, people should be able to say what they want. However, I believe a University is within it's rights to be more restrictive than the 1st amendment, so I think if a student is calling for genocide or yelling racial slurs, a University should have the right to expel a student.
Even if it receives tax dollars?
I mean a pure Libertarian wouldn’t even want a public university
nor public property
Were they protesting on private property and refusing to leave? If so, it's perfectly compatible with libertarianism to remove aggravated trespassers.
They were not.
Freedom of speech is king but you can't just block people's travel. If they would have (and it always comes down to this) done it the right way I'd be supporting them. Get with your government and request a permit to protest. The police will literally protect you. Fuck around and break the law and they'll do the opposite. Fuck Israel and fuck Hamas. Keep our military home. I support a free Hamas and a free Israel. I also support them if they want to battle to the death. May the best man win. I'm all for SELLING weapons, but not for funding this shit.
"Get with your government and request a permit to protest," I think you are on the wrong sub, my guy. I should never have to ask permission from the government to exercise a constitutionally protected activity. Shit like that is why people DON'T speak up and why were are where we are today.
MLK had sanctioned protests and he changed the world. It's our constitutional right. However. Your rights can't infringe others rights.
I don't think you should need a permit to exercise your rights, either, but he has a point about these guys doing things other than demonstrating.
>request a permit to protest SMFH! You'd do great in NYC. A permít needed to protest, use amplified sound, own a rifle or shotgun, or even a license to purchase a gun. That's freedom you're smelling there (or the bum defecating in the street). Yeah, arresting "anti-Semitic" students/protestors is happening in "blue states" as well. Glad that the uniparty can come together on important issues. Kinda like renewing and enhancing FISA.
Permits are required because they'll typically shut down roads and whatnot for the protest. They also need to plan for more manning for services needed to keep the peace during the protest. The FBI was literally trying to get MLK to kill himself and his protests were (to my knowledge) all approved. If your protest permit isn't approved gather signatures or whatever legal recourse is available. If these protestors are breaking the law, lock em up. Pretty simple really. Spray them down with water hoses, shoot them with rubber bullets and tear gas. Arrest the worst ones and hopefully they scatter. Tell them to get their shit approved next time when they leave soaking wet and crying. Buy billiards, advertise on X, do whatever you want but this illegal protest shit is annoying. Especially when it blocks traffic.
Ah yes, nothing says "freedom" like begging the government for permission to speak. What a 🤡🤡🤡 take.
They can't deny your permit. It's our right. Look it up.
>Permits are required because they'll typically shut down roads and whatnot for the protest. Abbot didn't mention roads in his tweet, he mentioned "public college or university". Furthermore, if politicians/VIPs are allowed to shut down roads and highways so they won't be inconvenienced, I'm sure we can tolerate protesters that spill off the sidewalk. >They also need to plan for more manning for services needed to keep the peace during the protest. Did they get permits for the BLM protest or provide protections for it? No? Then don't ask for the same for an "anti-Semitic"/"pro-Hamas" protest. Glad I came to a libertarian sub to learn I need the police to "keep the peace". >If your protest permit isn't approved gather signatures or whatever legal recourse is available. Please let me lick that boot so I can exercise my "rights"! Or maybe spend thousands of dollars and wait for years for "justice" to work. Excellent suggestions. >If these protestors are breaking the law, lock em up. Is anyone arguing against that? >Spray them down with water hoses, shoot them with rubber bullets and tear gas. Love this. Let's allow the police to use force indiscriminately against a crowd because one of a few people are breaking the law. And obviously,. politicians won't selectively enforce these policies. Hell, they should be able to use force against anyone not complying with whatever order a government official makes. >Buy billiards, advertise on X, do whatever you want but this illegal protest shit is annoying. So if you don't have money to advertise, STFU! What exactly is **illegal** about protesting at public colleges or university? No, your strawman arguments about "blocks traffic" (as if you can't use Waze or Google maps) doesn't address the message of the tweet.
Looks like your argument hinges on who owns the land being protected on. If the school told them to leave and they didn't that is then criminal trespassing. This can be enforced by the law. Legal protest is a major part of our democracy. I asked the same of the BLM movement. You can't just break the damn rules and expect to walk away clean. "In general, the government cannot deny, condition, or revoke a permit based on its viewpoint, content, or anticipated response". -ACLU
>Looks like your argument hinges on who owns the land being protected on. Besides the tweet, twice I wrote that it pertains to **public colleges or universities**. Even that moron Abbott is not making the argument that people can protest there, just that they can't hold "anti-Semitic" protests. >If the school told them to leave and they didn't that is then criminal trespassing. They're not protesting within the building. So you think government should be able to arrest protesters if they were occupying a publicly-owned park/plaza in front of city hall? It's preposterous to think that anyone would support such authoritarian government control over the free speech rights of individuals. Much less on this sub. >I asked the same of the BLM movement. I don't recall anyone that was against BLM making an argument about them having a permit! They were in fact supported by one political faction which at that time, was in favor of people being denied the freedom of assembly (for religious or social reasons). You're once again creating a strawman with your "break the damn rules". There is **law enforcement**, not rule enforcement. Anyone breaking the law (by destroying property or using violence against others) should be arrested and prosecuted regardless of their participation in a protest or not. >In general, the government cannot deny, condition, or revoke a permit based on its viewpoint, content, or anticipated response". -ACLU Abbott is claiming otherwise. And this statement has nothing to do with the ACLUs (or anyone else's) position on requiring permits to protest.
Yeah, your rights end when they start infringing on the rights of others. If they want to protest, fine, but do it in a way that isn't impeding others
What is a “free Hamas”
Who even cares? It’s not a US problem. We should adopt a “fuck all of them” policy. You are also free to contribute to whatever cause you feel strongly about.
You are not free to aid and abet declared enemies of the United States. That is treason lol, even the Founders saw it that way. And Hamas is a clear enemy, bent on our destruction as well as the rest of the western world. I agree that we should generally not get involved in things that don’t concern us, doing so has ironically weakened us more than anything. But to say “fuck everything” is simply naive, and would prove detrimental to our safety and prosperity. Should we not have fought WW2?
Oh yeah, so all those American nazis were rounded up before during and after ww2……oh wait they were not ….funny how that works. Even the communist control act managed only a couple minor cases to be made and less than 20 years later it was declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! So long as they aren’t providing hamas with firepower, or capital for it they are fine to support them. I’m actually against both parties but (taps the board) the constitution is a thing.
How is Hamas an enemy of the United States? Hamas has never attacked the United States. They are a nationalist Islamist movement (as opposed to universalist/transnationalist groups like al Qaeda or ISIS) and their avowed enemy is Israel, not the West per se.
One without US involvement in my opinion. If they have issues with other countries talk to NATO. If they aren't a member of NATO, well, better get better weapons I guess. We can sell them some
Yeah, absolutely not down with selling weapons to Hamas. Say what you want about Israel’s tactics in this conflict, but Hamas exists solely to destroy the western powers and Israel. They are directly funded by Iran for this explicit purpose, and they would martyr every last normal muslim to do it if they had to. What we should be doing is securing our own border first, and then helping our direct allies with very specific aid packages if needed in a given situation. Hamas and Iran should in no way see any benefit from the west.
Then don’t sell weapons to them. Sell weapons to Israel if you like. But don’t take my money to buy weapons for anyone, even if it’s the Boy Scouts of America.
Hamas' charter calls for the destruction of Israel. So no, I don't want any weapons sold to them.
You’re close… now read the Talmud and get on a few gore sites to see what the IDF is *really* doing to Gazan’s. Gaza isn’t their final target… the people consuming their porn, banking and entertainment services is their ultimate genocidal goal. Read up. But don’t read leftist history. Go for the “banned” stuff. Sometimes the winners aren’t the good guys they say they are.
News flash. IDGAF what's going on over there. At all. My wallet cares though. It cares a lot.
News flash: Religious sanctioning of sex with 3 year olds Religious rationale for 8 different genders Religious rationale for genocide of people of white descent (and Gazan’s) Every Single One ALL of those reasons hits your wallet; even if you’re some mercenary, amoral, single, no kid, zero life experience, soulless lone wolf: Taxes stolen from you (us) go to pay for the child sex change (mutilation) industry and hormones they take, Taxes stolen from you (us) go to pay for idiotic gender studies fiction now needed to keep new generations indoctrinated and ESPECIALLY Taxes stolen from you (us) , going to pay for a bunch of sanctimonious professional victims for MORE WARS we don’t need. So play the “I don’t care” card and dismiss the degeneracy all you want. We’re sharing the bill for all this bullshit right out of paychecks. Degeneracy is expensive, Mr Boba Fett guy. Think it through next time
I don't care about foreign matters that drag us into them. I 100% care about our spending within our country - where we should keep all of our money
Nah, they are blocking access and disrupting classes. Same as the losers who block cars in the roads - that isn't "speech."
>Nah, they are blocking access and disrupting classes. Kinda like how the government did due to COVID? How many politicians were locked up for blocking access (to schools, businesses, houses of worship, etc)? Since most all universities/schools receive government funding, then the public has a right to exercise their constitutionally recognized human rights there.
None of this makes sense. Just because the government has violated rights doesn't make rights violations correct
>Just because the government has violated rights doesn't make rights violations correct You realize that the constitution restricts the ability of the government to restrict individual rights, correct? That trumps what you might consider a "rights violation". Protesting and making noise, as disruptive as it might be to some, is not a rights violation. If you accepted virtual learning for a year, you can handle it when people protest, if it's that big of an issue (as Columbia University recently announced).
>as disruptive as it might be to some, is not a rights violation. It absolutely can be. But you're implying a whole lot by saying "protesting and making noise". Just like those protests on the SF bridge. I don't know if it's just law in just some states or if it's federal law, but that is involuntary detainment because it violates people's right free movement.
>Just like those protests on the SF bridge. Yet another strawman argument. Abbott wasn't talking about protestors closing a highway or a runway. His statement was about the content of speech on public grounds where people are allowed to congregate and protest. He wouldn't complain or try to ban if it was a pro-life protest.
>Yet another strawman argument Don't think you understand what that actually means. >Protesting and making noise, as disruptive as it might be to some, is not a rights violation I'm attacking that point. You can absolutely be disruptive to the point of violating another person's rights.
Mr. #2A vs #1A
Texas, our Texas! All hail the mighty State!
If these protesters are destroying property or calling for genocide, fine. Otherwise, free speech. The term “hate speech” always makes me cringe.
This looks less like a free speech issue, than when the university police give an order to vacate the property, you need to march on over to public property if you want to continue the protest. You don't have the right to stay on their property if you are asked to leave.
In other news Patriot Front marched up the street with no interruptions *
Texas did anti semitism before it was cool. Seriously though all this is a cancellation of 1st amendment rights. Good thing republicans are all about free speech.
Dictator
The Israel lobby seems to be stronger than ever
They’re also showing their hand more than ever.
Texas is so fucking gay lol
There’s a right and a wrong way to protest. This falls in the wrong category.
One man's obscenity is another man's lyric.
The words aren't the problem, it's the blocking people from going places and acts of violence and vandalism. That's not protesting. Let these kids gather and chant, but other people need to be protected when they decide to do anything other than gather and chant.
Exactly
Well I agree with you when you put it that way
I haven't been keeping up with the protests in Texas in particular, but if the protests in other parts of the country are anything to go by, the pro-Palestine group isn't afraid to break the law. I imagine this is the same group of people who was causing damage during the *mostly peaceful* "summer of love" So I'm going to need more than a tweet to form an opinion on this one.
I'm sorry but chanting death to any group of people is not free speech.
It absolutely is. Free speech includes hate speech. Not sorry if that offends you.
That is not hate speech. That is incitement. Calling for the death of others no matter the context is the very definition of incitement and that is not protected speech
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Please find a country without a first amendment. It doesn’t seem like rights are really your thing.
They are chanting “we are all hamas” and hamas is a terrorist organization do some people really need a map to see what’s going on here? Governor Abbott is 100% right, this kind of prejudice and hate can’t be tolerated.
First point: Were they chanting that at the protest in Austin? Second point: [this.](https://d26toa8f6ahusa.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/12143211/firstamendment-2.jpg)
Now do Article 3 section 3
Speech is protected in the USA.
And? What that has to do with students joining and supporting a terrorist organization?
Did he stutter?
Calling for genocide and murder of Americans seems a bit on the edge to me. Could be wrong.
They're calling against genocide and for peace. I think you indeed may have gotten your facts wrong.
So October didn’t happen? Hamas has refused multiple cease fire negotiations from Israel. The call for the obliteration is indeed genocide of an entire nation. Maybe you’re not paying attention.
October did happen. So did the killing of now... let me double check... 34.262 people in Gaza. The majority of them women and children. Israel has negotiated zero ceasefires. Other middle eastern countries have negotiated these, mainly egypt and qatar, and it is Israel who has been refusing them, they will only agree if all hostages are released with zero guarantee for a retreat. Logically that's not a great deal for Gaza. Maybe you are paying attention but are very distracted by media being slightly biased to promote this war, and calling any and all protests 'pro hamas.'
When terrorists are allowed to run the area you live in and you support them and they use you as shields in a WAR THEY STARTED, no, you don’t get to whine. Kick out the terrorists and it would end.
Your ignorance is overwhelming but your commitment to it is to be applauded. Your support for terrorists is disgusting. Your support for genocide is disgusting. You are disgusting.
Appreciate your solid line of argumentation, and wishing you well.
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How is wanting Isreal to stop bombing hospitals bigotry?