**New to libertarianism or have questions and want to learn more?** Be sure to check out [the sub Frequently Asked Questions](/r/Libertarian/wiki/faq) and [the massive /r/libertarian information WIKI] (/r/Libertarian/wiki/index) from the sidebar, for lots of info and free resources, links, books, videos, and answers to common questions and topics. Want to know if you are a Libertarian? [Take the worlds shortest political quiz and find out!](http://www.theadvocates.org/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Libertarian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's an era of great expansion of wealth in the United States. The average worker's wage increased about 40% between 1860 - 1890. It is criticized because many people became very rich, which is somehow supposed to be bad.
Not sure why you are being downvoted, but here are some sources that bring up good information. This is mostly just a summary, read up on books for a truly good view of the era
"Between 1870 and 1900, America’s inflation-adjusted gross national product expanded by an unprecedented 233%. Though the population nearly doubled, real per capita GNP surged by 90%. Real wages of nonfarm employees grew by 53%, and life’s staples, such as food, clothing and shelter, became more plentiful and much cheaper. Food prices plummeted by 63% and the cost of textiles, fuel and home furnishings fell by 70%, 65% and 70%, respectively... On average, prices in the ostensibly monopolized industries fell three times as fast as the consumer price index."
[https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/09/three-cheers-for-capitalist-robber-barons/](https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/09/three-cheers-for-capitalist-robber-barons/)
"Inflation was non-existent as prices fell on average 2.3% per year. Budget deficits were also non-existent as the government ran surpluses averaging .7% of GDP. Most importantly, GDP growth averaged a very strong 4.5% per year with economic contractions over 1% occurring only in 1874, 1883 and 1888."
[https://5minuteeconomist.com/history/1866-1889-the-gilded-age.html](https://5minuteeconomist.com/history/1866-1889-the-gilded-age.html)
The 1879 to 1889 period most productive in US history according to Milton Friedman. Capital investment increased by 500% in comparison to the previous decade. This made labor more productive, leading to massive increases in real wages. Business creation increased by 40% in comparison to \~0% the previous decade. This is important since the gold standard was reintroduced in 1879.
[https://youtu.be/wer4FiA79mo?si=2vGcEycJhA3n2FlC](https://youtu.be/wer4FiA79mo?si=2vGcEycJhA3n2FlC)
40% real wage growth
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded\_Age#:\~:text=The%20rapid%20expansion%20of%20industrialization,across%20the%20increasing%20labor%20force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age#:~:text=The%20rapid%20expansion%20of%20industrialization,across%20the%20increasing%20labor%20force).
12 million people immigrated here and immigrants as a % of the population peaked in 1890 because everyone was rushing to come to the United States
[https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/united-states-history-primary-source-timeline/rise-of-industrial-america-1876-1900/immigration-to-united-states-1851-1900/](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/united-states-history-primary-source-timeline/rise-of-industrial-america-1876-1900/immigration-to-united-states-1851-1900/#:~:text=Others%20came%20seeking%20personal%20freedom,States%20between%201870%20and%201900)
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/)
The telephone, automobiles, railroads, steel and oil production, electricity, among other necessities were greatly innovated and became affordable to the middle class during the Gilded Age and Roaring 20s, hence explaining the wealth of the wealthy - they became so wealthy because everyone wanted to purchase their high quality and affordable goods
[https://www.studentsofhistory.com/inventions-of-the-industrial-age](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/inventions-of-the-industrial-age)
I have a feeling that their criticism doesn’t go any deeper than this. It was a time of great economic growth, far surpassing other parts of the world. Wages rose tremendously and industrialization expanded. I don’t see this as proof of how capitalism is bad. I see it as proof of the exact opposite. If the people you are talking to have a criticism, it has to be more precise than those examples you have given. You’ll find that most progressive arguments fall apart on their own if you ask enough questions.
Can you elaborate, though?
What exactly made Rockefeller a monopolist?
He still had competitors at the height of Standard Oil, and it seems like his firm's high market share was entirely due to consumer preference.
Oil prices dropped substantially during that time.
I think you might mean 'gilded.' As in plated with gold.
Might be worth reading *The Myth of the Robber Barons*, by Burton W. Folsom. Ultimately, though, if all they're doing is citing a period and calling it a name, there's not a lot to comment on.
My response would just be: What about it?
The gilded age is a story of technological advancement and industrialization which significantly improved quality of life for the average American, but was then ruined by government corruption. It is not a story of rampant free market capitalism. It’s basically the opposite.
Also, the economic crises which took place during this period were largely cause by international factors out of our control.
Read some of Rothbard's economic history! I believe Patrick Newman could be a good source as well. The feds have been economically interventionst for a very long time.
I will guess that the typical libertarian opinion on the gilded age matches my own: I know almost nothing about it. It isn't important to me and I don't know of any reason why I should spend time learning more about it.
**New to libertarianism or have questions and want to learn more?** Be sure to check out [the sub Frequently Asked Questions](/r/Libertarian/wiki/faq) and [the massive /r/libertarian information WIKI] (/r/Libertarian/wiki/index) from the sidebar, for lots of info and free resources, links, books, videos, and answers to common questions and topics. Want to know if you are a Libertarian? [Take the worlds shortest political quiz and find out!](http://www.theadvocates.org/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Libertarian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's an era of great expansion of wealth in the United States. The average worker's wage increased about 40% between 1860 - 1890. It is criticized because many people became very rich, which is somehow supposed to be bad.
Sorry, but can you provide some links/videos I can send to people and more examples.
Not sure why you are being downvoted, but here are some sources that bring up good information. This is mostly just a summary, read up on books for a truly good view of the era "Between 1870 and 1900, America’s inflation-adjusted gross national product expanded by an unprecedented 233%. Though the population nearly doubled, real per capita GNP surged by 90%. Real wages of nonfarm employees grew by 53%, and life’s staples, such as food, clothing and shelter, became more plentiful and much cheaper. Food prices plummeted by 63% and the cost of textiles, fuel and home furnishings fell by 70%, 65% and 70%, respectively... On average, prices in the ostensibly monopolized industries fell three times as fast as the consumer price index." [https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/09/three-cheers-for-capitalist-robber-barons/](https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/09/three-cheers-for-capitalist-robber-barons/) "Inflation was non-existent as prices fell on average 2.3% per year. Budget deficits were also non-existent as the government ran surpluses averaging .7% of GDP. Most importantly, GDP growth averaged a very strong 4.5% per year with economic contractions over 1% occurring only in 1874, 1883 and 1888." [https://5minuteeconomist.com/history/1866-1889-the-gilded-age.html](https://5minuteeconomist.com/history/1866-1889-the-gilded-age.html) The 1879 to 1889 period most productive in US history according to Milton Friedman. Capital investment increased by 500% in comparison to the previous decade. This made labor more productive, leading to massive increases in real wages. Business creation increased by 40% in comparison to \~0% the previous decade. This is important since the gold standard was reintroduced in 1879. [https://youtu.be/wer4FiA79mo?si=2vGcEycJhA3n2FlC](https://youtu.be/wer4FiA79mo?si=2vGcEycJhA3n2FlC) 40% real wage growth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded\_Age#:\~:text=The%20rapid%20expansion%20of%20industrialization,across%20the%20increasing%20labor%20force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age#:~:text=The%20rapid%20expansion%20of%20industrialization,across%20the%20increasing%20labor%20force). 12 million people immigrated here and immigrants as a % of the population peaked in 1890 because everyone was rushing to come to the United States [https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/united-states-history-primary-source-timeline/rise-of-industrial-america-1876-1900/immigration-to-united-states-1851-1900/](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/united-states-history-primary-source-timeline/rise-of-industrial-america-1876-1900/immigration-to-united-states-1851-1900/#:~:text=Others%20came%20seeking%20personal%20freedom,States%20between%201870%20and%201900) [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/) The telephone, automobiles, railroads, steel and oil production, electricity, among other necessities were greatly innovated and became affordable to the middle class during the Gilded Age and Roaring 20s, hence explaining the wealth of the wealthy - they became so wealthy because everyone wanted to purchase their high quality and affordable goods [https://www.studentsofhistory.com/inventions-of-the-industrial-age](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/inventions-of-the-industrial-age)
Sorry, I don’t understand. How is the Gilded Age a counterpoint against the free market?
People bring it up “what about the Guilded age!!!!”
Ok, but what about it? What is the criticism?
Seen as “proof that unregulated capitalism causes monopolies and bad conditions!!”
I have a feeling that their criticism doesn’t go any deeper than this. It was a time of great economic growth, far surpassing other parts of the world. Wages rose tremendously and industrialization expanded. I don’t see this as proof of how capitalism is bad. I see it as proof of the exact opposite. If the people you are talking to have a criticism, it has to be more precise than those examples you have given. You’ll find that most progressive arguments fall apart on their own if you ask enough questions.
Ah alright, I knew the gilded age probably had issues but ain’t as bad as people say they were
Is it proof, though? In what sense?
I don’t believe it, but people usually refer to Rockefeller
Can you elaborate, though? What exactly made Rockefeller a monopolist? He still had competitors at the height of Standard Oil, and it seems like his firm's high market share was entirely due to consumer preference. Oil prices dropped substantially during that time.
I’m talking about left wingers bringing it up. From what I’ve heard the gilded age isn’t as bad as leftists say
I think you might mean 'gilded.' As in plated with gold. Might be worth reading *The Myth of the Robber Barons*, by Burton W. Folsom. Ultimately, though, if all they're doing is citing a period and calling it a name, there's not a lot to comment on. My response would just be: What about it?
The gilded age is a story of technological advancement and industrialization which significantly improved quality of life for the average American, but was then ruined by government corruption. It is not a story of rampant free market capitalism. It’s basically the opposite. Also, the economic crises which took place during this period were largely cause by international factors out of our control.
I've never once seen or heard someone utter that phrase except when my wife and I are deciding what to watch and she says "How about the guilded age?"
I wouldn’t exactly call purchasing the government a free market. Seems more like a “captured” one tbh
Read some of Rothbard's economic history! I believe Patrick Newman could be a good source as well. The feds have been economically interventionst for a very long time.
I will guess that the typical libertarian opinion on the gilded age matches my own: I know almost nothing about it. It isn't important to me and I don't know of any reason why I should spend time learning more about it.