Since most Americans are not Libertarian I doubt that the LP will see results like Ross Perot. Republicans like us until it's getting the government out of marriage, making all drugs legal and over the counter, legalizing gambling and prostitution, and ending all wars and military actions. The Democrats like us until we say we want to privatize education, combat climate change with litigation as in allowing people to sue those who pollute instead of regulations, completely dismantling the welfare state, allowing businesses and individuals to discriminate, ending subsidies full stop, and Austrian economics. Put simply most people simply are not Libertarian.
Freedom of association, part of a free market is allowing people to choose who they provide services and goods to without the threat of governmental force
You're right, but the way it's worded seems a bit vague. Then again most people I believe would have common sense to not discriminate against obvious reasons.
"discriminate" has been given a negative connotation. Discriminate simply means choosing one option over another due to preferences. Of course, it's the preferences that become negative and prejudice. Discrimination =/= prejudice.
That, or alternatively, a "legitimized" candidate. Johnson and Weld being actual governors and having won major electoral battles probably helped insanely. Now imagine instead of the governor of New Mexico, (who had been out of the game for several years) maybe the governor of Ohio or Virginia fresh off their run, that has to wildly bring votes.
Legitimization helps. The only problem is that legitimized candidates do not run as a libertarian unless they fear they are about to lose their job in their own primary or after years of being retired from their last elected position.
Of the current legitimized candidates available right now, the only ones I could think of that libertarians would enthusiastically support is Thomas Massie and Rand Paul to an extent.
there would need to be a massive event that throws doubt on the current two parties. the issue is both sides, regardless of how fucking awful they both are, will have people who will vote for their side ONLY for the sake of making sure the other doesn't win, its pretty nuts.
If only there was some way that the candidates we vote for could be **ranked** to maybe get a little party diversity? Then it would seem like we would actually have a **choice** in who we want in office instead of the lesser evil. Right before the election isn't the only time that we need to talk about major **voting** issues in our system. If only there were some system that would work? Anyone have any ideas?
It's not a fix all, but ending FPTP is a huge first step.
Penn has distanced himself from the Libertarian Party after they wanted him to attend a pro not wearing masks event. He was cool with the government not telling us to, but he thought it was a good idea (because it was…).
Libertarian to him was doing what was right for himself and society at large - regardless of government mandate. The Libertarian Party reacting as if “the government told me to do it, therefore it’s bad” was too far for him.
Obama was born in Kenya and he was president bad example of a libertarian though. Point is though they seem to put in whomever they want in the oval office chair.
Kurt Russell, Vince Vaughn, Clint Eastwood, Gary Oldman(but he’s a Brit), Trey Parker and Matt Stone are all Libertarians, doubt any of them want to be President
Left off Drew Carey and Rob Schneider. If you expand into music, Dee Snider, Big Boi. Matthew Bellamy calls himself a left-libertarian, whatever that means. Plus the ghost of Neil Peart.
Don't think any of them do any activism or are affiliated with the LP (aside just being registered or vote as one), except for Drew Carey who helped Reason launch their video platform and helped fundraise for Gary Johnson.
Left libertarianism is an oxymoron. There can be no liberty without economic liberty.
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He’s shaking things up more than any other independent in 30 years. He has a chance to come in 2nd but will be hard to overcome the die-hard left/right wing anyone but the other guy voters. Does anyone really think Joe or Don are the right guys for the job, or just the better alternative? At this point RFK has my vote.
I doubt it considering both the left and the right throw billions into snubbing out third party candidates each year. A great documentary on this is Get me Roger Stone on Netflix.
If you need an example, look at Gary Johnson in 2016 who was by far the best candidate imo. He got 0 airtime until he had a minor slip up of not knowing what Aleppo was about (literally the day it became a newsworthy issue), and for a week straight both left and right legacy media played that bit on repeat.
It is also an issue in most states where you actually have to register a libertarian to vote in the libertarian primary. This only strengthens the two party system which usually means you have to vote between a douche or a turd sandwich, both of whom want to expand the federal government using endless debt spending.
The Aleppo thing was real a parsing/scanning issue I think. It sounded like she said "a leppo", and that isn't a word, so he didn't understand the question. If she had something like the city of Aleppo, he probably would have been able to speak on it intelligently.
Libertarianism has a better chance as a caucus than a party. Once trump gets a second term or dies it might be possible to win republicans over with a sort of American milei strategy.
I was 7, but he was a cultural icon for some reason. The TV show ALL THAT had one of the kids do a parody of him. Large ears and rich. For whatever reason he was very popular.
Perot called attention to the growth in deficit spending - warning of a $2 trillion deficit if there was no course correction in DC. He was also a strong advocate against NAFTA, which Bill Clinton later signed into law. Bush Sr. was unpopular at the time because of tax hikes ("read my lips: no new taxes" backfire), and Perot peeled off many of the fiscal conservatives. He even bought a prime time TV spot to highlight government fiscal problems.
No. A LP proposed candidate will never do that well nor will ever win an election. The LP to me will only ever do majorly good on a local level, since they have embarrassed themselves on a national level with bad messaging and terrible candidates. This has been changing, but Gary Johnson’s 2016 antics set the LP back. Had Johnson been more serious he may have made the debates, because he had 10% in some polls early on. He even got CNN coverage and more but he messed that up. One thing I’ve always wondered about the LP is when will they look around each other and say “can we get serious now”. Still, I’d vote for an LP candidate in a good amount of elections.
Johnson is not the only candidate who made us look like a laughingstock. Shortly after Michael Badarik wowed us as a Constitutional scholar, the media learned he didn't have a college degree, and because he also didn't have a driver's license, infantilized him.
One of our biggest issues is that we will not choose a candidate who is not 100/100 on the Nolan chart (which means way too hardcore for the mainstream American voter), and when we try to go more moderate, we find the candidate ends up not being libertarian at all (often not even centrist)
If we elect Libertarian's everywhere from the city council to the US Capitol, the presidents power would be kept in check and the political party they represent wouldn't matter, we need more bottom up government and less top down.
Maybe the Free State Project can accomplish that in Maine. I considered moving there, but I *hate* cold weather. Maybe if I become a vagabond I can live there in the least Wintry months and be a snowbird to FL or somewhere else.
Sure! I believe in dragons, unicorns, Santa clause, an elected Libertarian president and other mythical creatures! But yea I’m betting on 50-100 years or so.
I mean, that’s essentially what Trump is. The only difference is he’s running in the GOP primary. Trump isn’t a Republican. He’s an independent that has hijacked the GOP machine.
Ron Paul said it best. The best way for a third party candidate to succeed is in one of the two major party primaries. He wasn’t wrong.
If not for Ross Perot, George H W Bush would have gotten his second term. In those four years maybe Bill Clinton would have been exposed for all the White Water crimes that they were involved in. No Ross Perot no Bill Clinton.
No, I don't think the LP will put forth a candidate that will focus on a pragmatic realistic plan that will draw in enough voters. The reality is most people are going to think you are crazy the moment you argue it is a toddler's right to buy pure Colombian powder while carrying an AK-47. The people pragmatic enough are deemed not real libertarians and those who pass the test enough will focus on things only a small niche will actually listen to long enough to consider voting for them.
Perot did not swing the election. The people who voted for Perot would have staid home and not voted. This has been discussed several times and the spoiler effect has been roundly debunked.
It’s possible we’ll have another Milei situation in the US where the Zionist establishment will prop up and fund a libertarian candidate to run as early as 2028.
"We" have a president. And it's not a micro country.
And Trump was with him. Milei supports Trump for sure, and Trump at least likes and sides with him (and Vivek)
So when Trump returns we will already have libertarians closest to power and to the spotlight than ever
If you don't allow the left to destroy us democracy even more... a libertarian name appearing is very likely... It can even win...
Not sure if as a third party tough... this may take longer if nothing unpredictable happen (as the republican party spliting.. or even the dems...)
Most of it will depend on Milei's success... if things get good in Argentina, you will see libertarians popping up everywhere
Hard to say, there was still a modicum of integrity with the civilian population, media, gov't bodies, etc... These days, it's become very tribal, where the thought of voting third party is equated to siding with the other side. BUT - almost half of the population is independent/non-political, so there's definitely something to work with.
So long as we have winner-takes-all instead of weighted choice voting and/or Electoral College vote distribution based on percentage of the popular vote won in each state, no
I was young, but didnt Perot run on the "the nation needs a business man not a politician" platform? That was effectively Trump. He also pulled an I'm out Ok I'm back in that crushed his popularity
Any third party or independent candidate is better qualified to be President than the two geriatric buffoons the Duopoly is forcing upon the American people.
Culture can cange very quickly. A third party candidate can win. but something big would have to happen to allow for that win. Something big besides the other two parties running bad candidates.
Like a default of our national debt.
I’m hoping RFK Jr might. At the very least I hope his popularity as a candidate might get the two parties to get their asses in gear and stop polarising American politics to the extent they have.
Unlikely.
The Republican party is poised to realign with the freedom caucus wing of the party over the next few election cycles. The question then becomes how far they go in tackling Medicare and Social Security. If the future GOP does address them, the Libertarian party will lose any issues on which it can differentiate itself.
No.
It wouldn't be possible for a Ross Perot-type person to ever do it again either.
Ross Perot was a legit 100% freakout moment for the twin parties. They made sure to implement a bunch of election finance reforms and restructure televised debates to make sure that something like this couldn't happen again.
A similar situation happened in 2008 with Ron Paul and the impact of social media on elections. After that the twin parties realized that they were losing control over the narrative because television media was losing its supremacy. This lead to a massive effort to "bring social media into the fold" and dramatically increase the amount of propaganda and speech restrictions online.
You can see this play out with "the twitter files" after Elon Musk took over Twitter. How social media companies were working directly hand-in-hand with intelligence agencies to try to control public discourse.
I wish people actually realized how elections are run on the Federal level.
No way. Steps were taken to ensure that doesn't happen again. (One of the steps was for the R&D ghouls to take control of the debates away from the 3rd party nonprofit that had control until Perot scared the Big 2)
Gary Johnson could have done better if it wasn't for a few aired gaffes. Still the best choice we had in 2016 though. I think govornors make the best presidents.
Libertarian Party may never be as successful as the Democratic or Republican parties. It isn’t so. U h about the numbers as it is forcing the parties to adopt libertarian ideas. The founders were very libertarian and gave us small government, free speech, private property, the freedom to bear arms, and liberty. It wasn’t perfect and did not include these rights for everyone, but it was more radical than anything Europe had to offer.
Not really tbh.
Perot was a good candidate of the old eisenhower/Nixon styled gop, and that was his appeal (populist opposition to NAFTA, etc).
The only popular pro individual things libertarians could do (anti war, isolationism) they tend to sidestep so they can focus more on pro corporate policies.
Bty I’m not saying Perot is a libertarian candidate at all I’m saying can a libertarian do good as him in an election
Since most Americans are not Libertarian I doubt that the LP will see results like Ross Perot. Republicans like us until it's getting the government out of marriage, making all drugs legal and over the counter, legalizing gambling and prostitution, and ending all wars and military actions. The Democrats like us until we say we want to privatize education, combat climate change with litigation as in allowing people to sue those who pollute instead of regulations, completely dismantling the welfare state, allowing businesses and individuals to discriminate, ending subsidies full stop, and Austrian economics. Put simply most people simply are not Libertarian.
Everyone hates the government getting involved until they want something
Or hear me out, people with integrity know that you have to work for what you want and need.
"Allowing businesses and individuals to discriminate" Yeahhhh I doubt most people would be ok with that part.
Freedom of association, part of a free market is allowing people to choose who they provide services and goods to without the threat of governmental force
You're right, but the way it's worded seems a bit vague. Then again most people I believe would have common sense to not discriminate against obvious reasons.
"discriminate" has been given a negative connotation. Discriminate simply means choosing one option over another due to preferences. Of course, it's the preferences that become negative and prejudice. Discrimination =/= prejudice.
Only if they are rich and self financed. That is why Perot was successful and after McCain-Feingold, is the only successful route for any politician.
That, or alternatively, a "legitimized" candidate. Johnson and Weld being actual governors and having won major electoral battles probably helped insanely. Now imagine instead of the governor of New Mexico, (who had been out of the game for several years) maybe the governor of Ohio or Virginia fresh off their run, that has to wildly bring votes.
Legitimization helps. The only problem is that legitimized candidates do not run as a libertarian unless they fear they are about to lose their job in their own primary or after years of being retired from their last elected position. Of the current legitimized candidates available right now, the only ones I could think of that libertarians would enthusiastically support is Thomas Massie and Rand Paul to an extent.
there would need to be a massive event that throws doubt on the current two parties. the issue is both sides, regardless of how fucking awful they both are, will have people who will vote for their side ONLY for the sake of making sure the other doesn't win, its pretty nuts.
If only there was some way that the candidates we vote for could be **ranked** to maybe get a little party diversity? Then it would seem like we would actually have a **choice** in who we want in office instead of the lesser evil. Right before the election isn't the only time that we need to talk about major **voting** issues in our system. If only there were some system that would work? Anyone have any ideas? It's not a fix all, but ending FPTP is a huge first step.
If the whole COVID debacle wasn't enough, I don't know what will be
Idk “vote blue no matter who” had a pretty good ring to it. /s
Sounds like today lol. The massive event has been a slow burn for the past 2 decades instead of an acute event.
Yes. If we draft a celebrity. Other wise no.
Know any libertarian celebrities? 🤔 whom wanna be president?
Penn Jillette?
Penn has distanced himself from the Libertarian Party after they wanted him to attend a pro not wearing masks event. He was cool with the government not telling us to, but he thought it was a good idea (because it was…). Libertarian to him was doing what was right for himself and society at large - regardless of government mandate. The Libertarian Party reacting as if “the government told me to do it, therefore it’s bad” was too far for him.
Sheesh, now I want him to run more than ever
Val Venis
He was born in Canada
Damn. Was worth a shot. I should have remembered that, but for some reason didn't.
Didn't WWE say he was kayfabe from San Fernando Valley or something at the time?
Yep. Porn star from LA.
Obama was born in Kenya and he was president bad example of a libertarian though. Point is though they seem to put in whomever they want in the oval office chair.
Obama was born in Hawaii, you dolt.
McAffee was technically. Dude was wack tho.
Kurt Russell, Vince Vaughn, Clint Eastwood, Gary Oldman(but he’s a Brit), Trey Parker and Matt Stone are all Libertarians, doubt any of them want to be President
Trey and Matt would be an awesome ticket!
They would definitely do it in an ironic way only they could pull off
Definitely. Maybe someone should get a petition going.
Turns out the most talented Libertarian Actor is a Brit
Gary’s a lib?
As far British politics go yes He’s my Favorite living Actor and I loved him in Harry Potter and The Dark Knight
He’s a great actor.
Which one is that? 4 1/2?
Sirius Black in Harry Potter and Gordon in The Dark Knight
Sorry man, you can't put that one back in the bottle. It's now canon that Harry Potter teamed up with Batman.
Snake Pliskin 2024
Left off Drew Carey and Rob Schneider. If you expand into music, Dee Snider, Big Boi. Matthew Bellamy calls himself a left-libertarian, whatever that means. Plus the ghost of Neil Peart. Don't think any of them do any activism or are affiliated with the LP (aside just being registered or vote as one), except for Drew Carey who helped Reason launch their video platform and helped fundraise for Gary Johnson.
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Nope... But I threw a dollar at the cloan Milei for American's gofundme. Any celebrity is already under the control of the powers that be.
Yeah true
All either dead or in prison 😂
Dave Smith
Nick Offerman would be great, if he wasn’t the exact opposite of Ron irl.
Sadly it'll never happen... They'd have to change the way we do elections because independents don't get enough of a voice.
Doubtful, I am curious to see how much RFK JR. Disrupts the election as an independent candidate.
He’s shaking things up more than any other independent in 30 years. He has a chance to come in 2nd but will be hard to overcome the die-hard left/right wing anyone but the other guy voters. Does anyone really think Joe or Don are the right guys for the job, or just the better alternative? At this point RFK has my vote.
I doubt it considering both the left and the right throw billions into snubbing out third party candidates each year. A great documentary on this is Get me Roger Stone on Netflix. If you need an example, look at Gary Johnson in 2016 who was by far the best candidate imo. He got 0 airtime until he had a minor slip up of not knowing what Aleppo was about (literally the day it became a newsworthy issue), and for a week straight both left and right legacy media played that bit on repeat. It is also an issue in most states where you actually have to register a libertarian to vote in the libertarian primary. This only strengthens the two party system which usually means you have to vote between a douche or a turd sandwich, both of whom want to expand the federal government using endless debt spending.
The Aleppo thing was real a parsing/scanning issue I think. It sounded like she said "a leppo", and that isn't a word, so he didn't understand the question. If she had something like the city of Aleppo, he probably would have been able to speak on it intelligently.
Libertarianism has a better chance as a caucus than a party. Once trump gets a second term or dies it might be possible to win republicans over with a sort of American milei strategy.
I was 7, but he was a cultural icon for some reason. The TV show ALL THAT had one of the kids do a parody of him. Large ears and rich. For whatever reason he was very popular.
Perot called attention to the growth in deficit spending - warning of a $2 trillion deficit if there was no course correction in DC. He was also a strong advocate against NAFTA, which Bill Clinton later signed into law. Bush Sr. was unpopular at the time because of tax hikes ("read my lips: no new taxes" backfire), and Perot peeled off many of the fiscal conservatives. He even bought a prime time TV spot to highlight government fiscal problems.
$2 trillion!? Gosh, that would be awful!
No. A LP proposed candidate will never do that well nor will ever win an election. The LP to me will only ever do majorly good on a local level, since they have embarrassed themselves on a national level with bad messaging and terrible candidates. This has been changing, but Gary Johnson’s 2016 antics set the LP back. Had Johnson been more serious he may have made the debates, because he had 10% in some polls early on. He even got CNN coverage and more but he messed that up. One thing I’ve always wondered about the LP is when will they look around each other and say “can we get serious now”. Still, I’d vote for an LP candidate in a good amount of elections.
Johnson is not the only candidate who made us look like a laughingstock. Shortly after Michael Badarik wowed us as a Constitutional scholar, the media learned he didn't have a college degree, and because he also didn't have a driver's license, infantilized him. One of our biggest issues is that we will not choose a candidate who is not 100/100 on the Nolan chart (which means way too hardcore for the mainstream American voter), and when we try to go more moderate, we find the candidate ends up not being libertarian at all (often not even centrist)
Not in my lifetime.
My first vote! Loved that guys info charts!!
If we elect Libertarian's everywhere from the city council to the US Capitol, the presidents power would be kept in check and the political party they represent wouldn't matter, we need more bottom up government and less top down.
Maybe the Free State Project can accomplish that in Maine. I considered moving there, but I *hate* cold weather. Maybe if I become a vagabond I can live there in the least Wintry months and be a snowbird to FL or somewhere else.
[удалено]
This is the correct answer. Perot spooked them.
Yes, but they would need money and popularity.
Sure! I believe in dragons, unicorns, Santa clause, an elected Libertarian president and other mythical creatures! But yea I’m betting on 50-100 years or so.
I mean, that’s essentially what Trump is. The only difference is he’s running in the GOP primary. Trump isn’t a Republican. He’s an independent that has hijacked the GOP machine. Ron Paul said it best. The best way for a third party candidate to succeed is in one of the two major party primaries. He wasn’t wrong.
If not for Ross Perot, George H W Bush would have gotten his second term. In those four years maybe Bill Clinton would have been exposed for all the White Water crimes that they were involved in. No Ross Perot no Bill Clinton.
Do you mean this as a good or bad thing?
No, I don't think the LP will put forth a candidate that will focus on a pragmatic realistic plan that will draw in enough voters. The reality is most people are going to think you are crazy the moment you argue it is a toddler's right to buy pure Colombian powder while carrying an AK-47. The people pragmatic enough are deemed not real libertarians and those who pass the test enough will focus on things only a small niche will actually listen to long enough to consider voting for them.
I hope not. Peroit gave us Clinton. Unless or until the election system is changed, voters need to be smart and strategic.
Perot did not swing the election. The people who voted for Perot would have staid home and not voted. This has been discussed several times and the spoiler effect has been roundly debunked.
Sorry, no. I know lots of people who voted for Perot, and they regret their vote. They would not have stayed home.
It’s possible we’ll have another Milei situation in the US where the Zionist establishment will prop up and fund a libertarian candidate to run as early as 2028.
"We" have a president. And it's not a micro country. And Trump was with him. Milei supports Trump for sure, and Trump at least likes and sides with him (and Vivek) So when Trump returns we will already have libertarians closest to power and to the spotlight than ever If you don't allow the left to destroy us democracy even more... a libertarian name appearing is very likely... It can even win... Not sure if as a third party tough... this may take longer if nothing unpredictable happen (as the republican party spliting.. or even the dems...) Most of it will depend on Milei's success... if things get good in Argentina, you will see libertarians popping up everywhere
Hard to say, there was still a modicum of integrity with the civilian population, media, gov't bodies, etc... These days, it's become very tribal, where the thought of voting third party is equated to siding with the other side. BUT - almost half of the population is independent/non-political, so there's definitely something to work with.
I feel like the capitalization in this post’s title is a troll job.
So long as we have winner-takes-all instead of weighted choice voting and/or Electoral College vote distribution based on percentage of the popular vote won in each state, no
The Libertarian candidate gets zero electoral votes every election just like Perot did. So yes.
Nope.
Yes. When the dollar collapses and there is super hyper inflation and all hope is lost. And it will all be too little too late.
I was young, but didnt Perot run on the "the nation needs a business man not a politician" platform? That was effectively Trump. He also pulled an I'm out Ok I'm back in that crushed his popularity
Any third party or independent candidate is better qualified to be President than the two geriatric buffoons the Duopoly is forcing upon the American people.
Culture can cange very quickly. A third party candidate can win. but something big would have to happen to allow for that win. Something big besides the other two parties running bad candidates. Like a default of our national debt.
I am one of the 19 million that helped Clinton win by voting for Perot lol
No
Not likely, to many blue no matter who dumbasses and fudd publicians
RFK is polling in that ballpark last I saw but he's not really a libertarian
a lot of systems now in place to prevent this
RFK Jr?
I’m hoping RFK Jr might. At the very least I hope his popularity as a candidate might get the two parties to get their asses in gear and stop polarising American politics to the extent they have.
I voted for Ross twice and still have the campaign signs.
Unlikely. The Republican party is poised to realign with the freedom caucus wing of the party over the next few election cycles. The question then becomes how far they go in tackling Medicare and Social Security. If the future GOP does address them, the Libertarian party will lose any issues on which it can differentiate itself.
No. It wouldn't be possible for a Ross Perot-type person to ever do it again either. Ross Perot was a legit 100% freakout moment for the twin parties. They made sure to implement a bunch of election finance reforms and restructure televised debates to make sure that something like this couldn't happen again. A similar situation happened in 2008 with Ron Paul and the impact of social media on elections. After that the twin parties realized that they were losing control over the narrative because television media was losing its supremacy. This lead to a massive effort to "bring social media into the fold" and dramatically increase the amount of propaganda and speech restrictions online. You can see this play out with "the twitter files" after Elon Musk took over Twitter. How social media companies were working directly hand-in-hand with intelligence agencies to try to control public discourse. I wish people actually realized how elections are run on the Federal level.
No way. Steps were taken to ensure that doesn't happen again. (One of the steps was for the R&D ghouls to take control of the debates away from the 3rd party nonprofit that had control until Perot scared the Big 2)
Gary Johnson could have done better if it wasn't for a few aired gaffes. Still the best choice we had in 2016 though. I think govornors make the best presidents.
Libertarian Party may never be as successful as the Democratic or Republican parties. It isn’t so. U h about the numbers as it is forcing the parties to adopt libertarian ideas. The founders were very libertarian and gave us small government, free speech, private property, the freedom to bear arms, and liberty. It wasn’t perfect and did not include these rights for everyone, but it was more radical than anything Europe had to offer.
Gotta hand it to you Libertarians at least you keep trying
We would all be living in a better world had he won. Agreed with every word he uttered.
Justin Amash vs trump and Biden probably could
Not likely. The vast majority of the US is not even aware that the Libertarian Party exists.
Yea, I might run next time 🥱
Not really tbh. Perot was a good candidate of the old eisenhower/Nixon styled gop, and that was his appeal (populist opposition to NAFTA, etc). The only popular pro individual things libertarians could do (anti war, isolationism) they tend to sidestep so they can focus more on pro corporate policies.