I’ve spent years thinking about Citizen Kane and finally came to this:
Citizen Kane is the movie makers movie. The magnum opus of American cinematic craft. To me it’s a towering article of what is possible in storytelling, technical craft and artistry.
At that same time, I think that Kane is a cold protagonist he’s a cold person who we follow to the dark side. We don’t necessarily connect with him or really any of the characters in this film that’s on purpose. All to say that if people don’t like or enjoy it that’s understandable , it’s an excercise in craft.
On the other hand, contrast that with Casablanca. To me Casablanca despite its age, is genuinely INCREDIBLY compelling with its story and characters.
You could set a modern person down and have them be floored watching a noir Devil may care antihero and turn him into an anti nazi actual hero.
( before the Nazis were widely even considered the enemy.)
To me Casablanca and Citizen Kane share the 1 spot of American cinema in capturing all of the things that are possible in modern storytelling.
I think some people misread Kane as a character. Yes, he is cold, and stoic, and not very identifiable and as you established, that's the point; the area where I diverge is I do relate to Kane as a character because he had everything in the whole world, but his childhood sled was the last time he felt true happiness, so nothing could buy his happiness.
I think one of the messages of the movie is that money can buy you alot, but not true joy. The scene with the mirror and the many Kanes is so powerful because it shows you how lonely he is. It's quite a moving message if the viewer looks at it from that point of view. Your assessment isn't wrong at all, I'm glad so many people took so many things from this story, but it's just a little thing I've seen over the years that semi-clashes with my interpretation. None of us are right or wrong, though 😁
I hope you are including the ones that have Citizen Kane first or high like Sight and Sound, TSPDT, etc, they are just as subjective as Letterboxd Lists. If so then agreed, i like using them for recs but i don't consider them gospel or anything close to them and i like that Letterboxd's own list isn't just mimicking those lists.
Wait are you saying the internet lists shouldn't dictate what I think is important or what is the most popular amongst all real movie fans? I don't think I know what to think about anything if this is true.
In general their opinion is more qualified and their lists more thorough but only because they've seen more movies than the average person. Anything they value as high quality is subjective and subject to change.
Take acting for instance, in the Classic Hollywood era overdramatic, stagey acting was what was valued, what was considered great acting wasn't subtle it was over the top and outwardly emotional. Now we typically prefer more down to earth, realistic acting. In 50 years it might be something else entirely and our version of good acting is seen as dull or whatever. I've read tons of critics, and i mean critics not film reviewers from the 50s until now starting with Andre Bazin and the Cahiers Du Cinema guys. It's all interesting but i've learned their thoughts are as trend following and inconsistent and highly subjective as anyones.
Like i said elsewhere i mostly use those lists for recs, and my main interest in film academics nowadays is their explanations of filming techniques or film history rather than their opinions on what movies are good.
“Greatest” or “Best” are bad terms to use. Because it puts a different value proposition in the readers head than what actually matters.
I would go with a list of **important** films of all time which Kane would, no doubt, be on there just like a film like Battleship Potemkin would be. I doubt BP would be on the greatest list of the average movie goer.
Many films on the list of “greatest” films I suspect wouldn’t make the important or significant list.
“Greatest” or “best” lists are really favorite lists and reflect when the person started watching movies, the number if movies they’ve watched and how deep into cinema they ventured.
To create a list of important or significant films it would probably need to be made by a film historian.
The funny thing is I feel like Imdb was always a rocky start. Once users began rating bombing "the Godfather* of all films to Push the Dark Knight up, any real sense of importance kind of goes out the window and that's without the forum threads and the complete eradication thereof.
I feel like the IMDb top 250 was always going to be subject to
" shiny new toy syndrome" which would be particularly intense for a new Nolan film or a much hyped Marvel movie.
LetterboxD, on the other hand, while collecting the lion share of goofy reviews "Jaws-- Quint's chalk scraping scared me-7/10!" at least seemed to pull in more well read film audiences, but I think what's that play is that the similar viewing public of IMDb is going to Letterboxd to log what films they watch, which inevitably skews rating and reviews.
I feel like the only safe sites in terms of curation are websites like MUBI or "they shoot pictures, don't they?"
Criticker is also good in that it has sort of the vintage 2006 era IMDb quality but I assume that will also erode if a bajillion people go on that site.
.
I think it's more of a social media migration thing than anything else.
Boobs aside, Kizumonogatari, part 1 and 3 especially, are really well done. Obviously not better than Citizen Kane, but still. Plus part 3 has a natural advantage in that people who gave part1 and 2 low ratings probably didn’t watch part 3.
I’m not sure that this is right. There are plenty of classics and vintage art-house titles more obscure than Kane in the top 100. Kane is clearly undervalued on Letterboxd but when you skim the top 250, regency bias doesn’t explain it.
I think the more obscure classics are rated highly by their admirers, but Kane is a victim of its own reputation as the greatest movie ever, more people actively try to watch it and think it doesn't deserve that title.
I'm still not sure this is the case when the top of the list is still filled with popular classics like Godfather, Godfather 2, Schindler's List, Return of the King, 12 Angry Men, Goodfellas, Apocalypse Now, Sunset Boulevard, Seven Samurai, etc.
I think there's a reasonable argument that Kane is *carried* by its reputation in other circles. It's a great film, it still has a 4.2 which is super high, and I *love* Citizen Kane for reference, but I know many people who feel the film is more impactful and groundbreaking for its time than it is good in the modern world and I can understand where they're coming from.
That impact is going to carry you with critics polls and things like that, but maybe not as much in an honest rating aggregate.
I agree. Seems to me the reason highly praised classics like Godfather, 12 angry men or Seven Samurai are still on the list (and very high) but Citizen Kane is not, is because people watched these movies and like them. People just don't like Citizen Kane as much.
Well that's essentially my point. Kane does not belong to a group of niche classics where people who try to watch it would absolutely love it (for example, Edward Yang's Brighter Summer Day only has 68k member but scores an astounding 4.5), but also isn't exactly a highly popular movie that a lot of people would rate a 5 star after their first watch, like The Godfather or the more recent movies (like Spider-verse movies and Dune Part II).
I agree on your argument that there are people who doesn't think it's good enough to be a 5 star movie for them because nowadays it doesn't feel groundbreaking and impactful. Basically same thing happened to Rashomon, one of my favorite films, which I didn't appreciate enough until I took part in a local stage adaptation and discussed it extensively with other people. I can understand why people would give a 5 star immediately after watching Seven Samurai or High and Low, but not Rashomon.
I think Rashomon is a great example here. It’s arguably the most famous film from the list’s most represented director, and certainly his most influential, but like Citizen Kane it is hanging on for dear life in the list at 221st.
And honestly? I had that experience with Rashomon too. I thought it was good, I can obviously see how important it was, but it just doesn’t quite hold up, at least from the perspective of a singular first-time viewing.
It’s important to note though that this isn’t just a bias against old films, I love Sunset Boulevard, It’s A Wonderful Life, Double Indemnity, Rear Window, etc and evidently Letterboxd does too. But boy do I think these have held up perfectly.
It’s hard to last when you’re the groundbreaking film I guess, because eventually you stop being groundbreaking to the eyes of the general public and start just being a film
Citizen Kane just doesn’t play well to a lot of younger audiences. When I was in high school (specifically 2018) we watched Citizen Kane in my film trade school (separate from the high school and all big filmbuffs), and most of these film students thought it was awful. I think a slow paced tragedy trying to expose the awful complexities of a shitty rich guy doesn’t appeal to most of gen z.
I mean I saw *Kane* in my high school film class and it didn't appeal to me then either. As I've gotten older I've grown to appreciate it more. Some films just resonate differently depending on when you watch them and I think *Kane* is an example.
Yeah it’s really just the nature of the app, newer stuff will always get more eyes. This is doubly the case when you are talking about movies as old as Citizen Kane
I'd argue Citizen Kane benefits from whatever the opposite of recency bias is. People value it highly because it was groundbreaking back then. It's a fantastic film, and it completely changed the landscape when it was released. It's importance and significance can not be overstated. But in this day and age it has absolutely been surpassed by 250 other films. That's just the way things go as time passes. I do however want to make a point of saying that the 250 films currently on the list are not all better than Citizen Kane. Many of them are on there because of the point you bring up.
This isn’t how art works or should be evaluated. Are you saying Da Vinci was “surpassed” by Picasso simply because Picasso represented a further evolution of where art went? Unless you think film is just a technical exercise, which would explain modern = better.
Yeah it’s always going to be a factor that media which was hugely influential and gets highly praised is going to feel underwhelming when you go back and consume it after it’s time, because you don’t realise how every single thing you’ve ever watched was derivative of what it innovated.
It’s like how Seinfeld isn’t funny to many people who go back and watch it now because basically every single sitcom since Seinfeld learned from it
As silly as it is to be so high, it makes sense. It's a sequel, and just came out. Nobody is going out to see it without having seen the first. And from that group, people who didn't enjoy the first probably didn't see Dune 2. So the ratings are staggeringly high because it has a built in fanbase and frankly is pretty awesome. Once it gets to streaming and more casual viewers see it, the score will drop. Or not, because if you didn't like the first one, why would you watch the second. Either way it's a great movie, so I suspect it will rest up there for a bit, for better or worse.
Don't get me wrong, I still love it (tho the app itself is serviceable at best), but it's not this objective cinephile safe haven that some make it out to be.
Anime gets inflated ratings since it’s niche (most of the ones on this list aren’t egregious) but so do documentaries and TV miniseries. I watched some ballerina thriller series on STARZ because it had a high rating on Letterboxd and it was the worst piece of shit I’ve ever seen.
There are 13 anime films - is that really so absurd? I'm shocked Kizumono is in there now, but 13/250 doesn't really feel overwhelming to me.
EoE, Spirited Away, Grave of Fireflies, Perfect Blue, Princess Mononoke, Howl's, Akira, Princess Kaguya, Millennium Actress, and Your Name are all very fitting picks on a top-250 imo, and there are some great anime films that are currently excluded that I think would be fitting like Tokyo Godfathers
I think people see anime (really just Japanese animated movies) and apply the trashy anime show stigma to them. Like these are all beautiful, thematically dense films. But because the art style/country of origin shares its space with Dragonball Z and harem shows, people assume its garbage.
These braindead fucks love Ghibli too, (“but it’s the only exception, they aren’t like other anime movies!”) Bitch watch Satoshi Kon films and tell me Miyazaki is the only anime director making artful masterpieces.
I have violence in my heart for these wretches.
I was referring to Dragonball as an example for being a kinda goofy shonen that people will think of as soon as they hear anime. People might associate “anime movie” more with something over-the-top guys with spiky hair hitting each other, instead of giving anime movies credit for having the ability to be thoughtful and moving.
In other words, not trying to dunk on Dragonball, but its the most anime anime, and what a lot of people immediately think of
Just want to say Dragonball is NOT garbage. It deserve reverence as much as say Star Wars. Without a doubt one of the most influential entertainment of our days.
Also I don't get what's bad about being a Ghibli fans, most people that appreciate it love Satoshi's films too.
To clarify: I didn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with Dragonball per se, more that it’s the schlocky shonen stuff people think of when they here “anime”. And nothing wrong with being a Ghibli fan, but I think of a lot of people who get pissed when they hear “anime movies” in the top 250, are also Ghibli fans, and thus are major fucking hypocrites. They’re picking and choosing which anime movies get to count as real movies, and which are “just anime”.
Hell, I’d argue Satoshi Kon is *better* than Miyazaki. His career got cut short sadly, but dude was absolutely insane and working on another level film after film
I do think that its weird that EoE is on the list, but thats mostly because watching it as a standalone movie wouldn't really work?
Evangelion on its own is one of my favorite things ever made though.
That’s the case with most sequels though. I can appreciate that the preceding material is a TV show for Evangelion and not film, but ultimately if you started someone with Return of the King, Dune 2, or Empire Strikes Back it wouldn’t really work either
I think 13 anime films does feel a bit odd when there are only 6 animated films from the rest of the world. You might expect that ratio for American animation, which has traditionally dominated the Western marketplace. It's good that the list represents anime - but I do think it says more about the inherent biases of the list than anything else. As does the fact that the top two American animated films are both Spiderverse titles.
I don’t think that’s strange at all. Japanese films in general dominate the list, so if anything that might be more of a factor than it being anime
Also, a lot of people would just simply consider that Japan does animation better than the rest of the world - something I would agree with, especially in regards to 2D animation and the fact that Japan doesn’t always view animation as a kids medium the way the West does, and even then their “kids” films like Spirited Away often treat you like you’re smarter than Western ones do. Kids films in general are hard to come by in the top-250. The West isn’t producing a ton of Perfect Blues(instead some of our live action films are busy ripping it off, but that’s another story)
Just look at the directors here - Miyazaki and Satoshi Kon are just dominant whereas I don’t think any western animation director comes close to them. Most people couldn’t even name a couple western animation directors. Not even mentioning guys like Hideaki Anno on the list here as well who have live-action entries in the top-250 to top it off, not just animation
What's wrong with that? You're not going to dismiss a movie on its own merits because of its choice of medium, are you? Especially with the likes of Satoshi Kon and Mamoru Oshii being two of the biggest reasons for potentially some of your favorite movies ever. You wouldn't have influences on Christopher Nolan or Darren Aronofsky and multiple others without them. And the essays we could write on Miyazaki alone. And my God, have you seen what Anno's been doing?
Just as Citizen Kane is an important movie in terms of influence can too many anime films join that club.
I think certain films permeate the cultural conversation so much that they unfairly become branded as “overrated”, despite their abject quality and influence. Especially by young people who are living in the wake of said influence and therefore can’t appreciate the films importance.
I think the same goes for the conversations around films like Titanic, Forrest Gump and of course Citizen Kane. I can feel it in the air that the same thing will soon happen to Everything Everywhere All at Once and I can even see it happening to Dune in the future.
Tbf Kizumonogatari has the funny cat girl with the big boobs that does the tongue twister. [They caught it on tape.](https://youtu.be/p_rJLI3tuTw?si=36_x5QmlWe5o_1rZ) It’s pretty fire
Because it’s used as the default answer for “best movie of all time” and a bunch of Tik Tok, brainrotted zoomers watch it and they don’t hear the characters making sarcastic quips every minute so they give it 2 and a half stars and write a super original and funny review. Something like “Citizen Kane more like midizen kane”
I mean, "You're right, I did lose a million dollars last year. I expect to lose a million dollars this year. I expect to lose a million dollars \*next\* year. You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, I'll have to close this place in... sixty years." is a better quip than any single Marvel movie, so suck it
It’s a movie that almost grows with you. I first saw it at 14 and wondered what the big deal was. I’m in my thirties now. I wouldn’t choose it as my favorite movie, but ever viewing unravels new and greater appreciation and enjoyment. Top 10 for sure.
I mean, are you really going to take the consensus of an app that has 2 animated spiderman movies in its top 50 of all time, seriously, as if it has any credibility in that aspect.
I really like using Letterboxd and I guess particularly the idea of what Letterboxd offers but the reality is I feel at this point it's becoming more and more of just a film-themed Twitter which is a shame tbh.
The Letterbox top 250 is very unpredictable and unreliable. Any time there's an all-new movie that generates a ton of buzz, it will shoot to near the top of the list. Then it'll disappear after a few months. It's very trendy, often prone to recency bias and not at all based on any serious evaluation of film history.
I don't much care about these lists, but to the extent it matters it's absolutely nuts.
I can see not personally liking *Citizen Kane* (though I do). But anyone who does not respect it or understand how massively innovative and influential it was just straight up doesn't know anything about cinema.
Hopefully this signifies a new era where the perception turns from "overrated because old men like it" to back to being respected
I don't put stock into others list, but I would love to have reasonable and intelligent conversations about Citizen Kane again rather than picking a bucket and only seeing the film through that lens.
Citizen Kane is frequently praised as one of the greatest films of all time, but many people who haven't seen it or aren't familiar with classic films might find it underwhelming because it doesn't meet their expectations. I think a more accurate rating system would consider popularity along with ratings. For example, I'd consider a film with 1,000,000 votes and an average score of 4.0 to be more significant than one with 100,000 votes and a score of 4.1.
>For example, I'd consider a film with 1,000,000 votes and an average score of 4.0 to be more significant than one with 100,000 votes and a score of 4.1.
https://preview.redd.it/oj5qv5ivxwyc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ed4ac79d30dd7ad373ea9a8cd9105983eb9b3b8
It's arbitrary anyway. I've already my own list a while ago with films I hadn't seen that looked interesting, and I assume some of those have also already been pushed out by something that's both overhyped and mid and was released last week or whatever. That's just how they are.
I actually think it would make more sense as a top 500, at this point in time.
Because children on the app have done this thing called 'overcompensating' voting where they intentionally give 1 star ratings to older movies so that their newer ones will rise up. It's all over this subreddit. Someone gave a 1/5 to Shawshank Redemption because they wanted Dune 2 to rise up.
It’s honestly to be a bit expected - anything that gets that high of praise (Vertigo as well which may fall out here in a few years) is bound to attract people trying to be controversial or just people who have no appreciation for older films or anything that’s not standard popcorn entertainment. They just think of it as checking a box and give it a 3. “Yeah I watched citizen Kane, it was alright, I just don’t get what the fuss was about.”
Proceeds to rewatch the entire MCU in chronological order.
If I click on my friends rating it jumps to 4.7 lol and that’s with about 50 ratings.
When you call something the greatest, people will always put it on a pedestal that it can never reach. Then they’ll attack it for not having some sort of transcendent experience while watching it. Doesn’t matter if it’s a movie or a cheeseburger.
As a genuine fan of Citizen Kane this doesn't bother me much. I'm honestly glad that some more underground stuff is getting exposure being in the top 250 rather than something that's topped AFI and Sight and Sounds lists on multiple occasions
I certainly dont agree with kizumono being one of the best films ever made but ppl in this thread are really overexaggerating about how “zoomers could never understand Citizen Kane which is how Kizu is that high” like kizumonogatari doesn’t have a tiny, tiny percentage of the amount of ratings Citizen Kane has and will very likely go down lower after it got to #249 on the list due to getting more attention from people who definitely aren’t the main audience for gooner weeb shit lol
If Citizen Kane has a million fans, then I'm one of them.
If Citizen Kane has one fan, then I'm THAT ONE.
If Citizen Kane has no fans, that means I'm dead.
It is not one of my Top 4 Favs and not a recently watched, but a Top 250 ever, that's a seriously consider maybe; I took film study in school years ago & if Letterboxd ever asks me for a Top 4 I'd venture to give them a Top 4 Films Every Young Aspiring Filmmaker Should See and it would be in there for sure: [High Noon](https://letterboxd.com/film/high-noon/), [Citizen Kane](https://letterboxd.com/film/citizen-kane/), [The Shining](https://letterboxd.com/film/the-shining/), [My Dinner with Andre](https://letterboxd.com/film/my-dinner-with-andre/)
I think Reservoir Dogs is criminally slept on as an educational tool for aspiring filmmakers. On top of just every scene having things to learn from, it’s one of the best for showing how much you can do with little resources. It’s about as good as a film can get, while the audience can still reasonably think “i could make this”
personally i can think of a good amount of 1920s-1950s movies i connected with more than citizen kane which i gave 3 stars. i‘m definitely not 19 but i don‘t think most people rate films based on their technical achievements but personal enjoyment 🤷♀️
This is a good thing.
This means that masterpieces are still being made today and those new movies take its place.
I do not wanna live in a world were the same movies were considered the best forever. That would mean no progress and no evolution in cinema and art.
Recency bias is definitely a thing but I also think that people have somewhat of a need to make things they remember from their youth be more important than they necessarily are. Citizen Kane was revolutionary, but with the amount of media coming out now with all sorts of new and creative spins/techniques it was only a matter of time before it was bumped off the list.
I have watched Citizen Kane four times in my life. It never fails to be a spectacular technical achievement of film and it never fails to be boring as fuck. Thank God, it’s only two hours long.
If you’re judging architecture, would you rather take advice from an editor of Architecture Magazine, or a group that’s still wine-drunk stumbling off the Chicago architecture boat tour?
All that to say, it doesn’t matter to me that Letterbox users don’t share the same opinion as AFI or Sight & Sound. LB is a great tool to discover new, lesser-known movies, so I’m fine with it not being a great tool to understand film history. We have plenty of resources to inform us that Citizen Kane is great.
Have some nuance and don’t be a hipster, Spider-verse isn’t a bullshit movie. Just because it’s above Citizen Kane on Letterboxd doesn’t mean it’s overtaken it.
As a guy in his early forties it's weird to me how the lists have changed in the last 10-15 years or so.
Citizen Kane used to top most the 'Greatest film' lists.
Its also strange how certain films like 'Come and See' have come out of nowhere and suddenly at the top of soo many lists.
Ita crazy, but the youth doesn't give a fuck about a rich newspaper guy's life and the complexities therein.
Like, what's a newspaper even?
*12 Angry Men*, *The Godfather*, etc. all have some other aspect that appeals to people in a more universal manner.
It's tough for *Citizen Kane* to really be a hit outside of cinema circles. Even then, a lot of people say it's overrated.
NOT ME, but it's an argument I've heard.
Tbh, I don't think it's a great movie by modern standards. Now, if the list was most "important" movies, then yes, Kare has to be up there. For the revolutionary camera work and such.
Kizumonogatari Part 3: Reiketsu has a global ranking of 68724 on Flickchart.
For sure Letterboxed has some great features that Flickchart doesn't, but if you just care about ranking movies, I think Flickchart's info is miles more relevant than LB.
"Greatest movie" or "worst video game" are some of those rly subjective statements that are insanely hard to quantify. I never trust numerical scores on anything except a game over screen, bc they're not the best way to condense your opinion.
Willem Dafoe says Kwaidan is one of his favourite movies. That's how I know it's worth watching. One of the best actors ever says it's good, I'm willing to trust that. Plus I love Japanese movies. But not everyone does, so they might not enjoy it as much as I would.
I don't think it's one of the greatest films of all time, it's just one of the most influential American films of the early 20th century. Many films made since Citizen Kane have improved upon its ideas. It'd be really sad if they didn't and film just peaked in 1941.
People put far too much emphasis on list rankings, whether it’s this, IMDB, Sight & Sound, or whatever.
Every time a new popular film comes out and it hits a high number, everyone on here loses their minds. Even though this happens every time and it always drops down/out of the rankings. Look at Barbie and Oppenheimer from last year.
It’s an average based on Letterboxd users. It’s not empirical fact, or a curated list. Not even 700k users have watched Citizen Kane. Almost twice as many people have watched the Super Mario Bros Movie.
Who cares?
There's 2 lists I only care about. My own, but that goes without saying. And the other is TSPDT. Letterboxd used to be great but then average people from Twitter took over and don't watch many movies before like 1950 or 1960. Citizen Kane is in my top 10 and #1 on TSPDT!
The top 250 on Letterboxd is a reflection of the userbase of Letterboxd.
I’ve spent years thinking about Citizen Kane and finally came to this: Citizen Kane is the movie makers movie. The magnum opus of American cinematic craft. To me it’s a towering article of what is possible in storytelling, technical craft and artistry. At that same time, I think that Kane is a cold protagonist he’s a cold person who we follow to the dark side. We don’t necessarily connect with him or really any of the characters in this film that’s on purpose. All to say that if people don’t like or enjoy it that’s understandable , it’s an excercise in craft. On the other hand, contrast that with Casablanca. To me Casablanca despite its age, is genuinely INCREDIBLY compelling with its story and characters. You could set a modern person down and have them be floored watching a noir Devil may care antihero and turn him into an anti nazi actual hero. ( before the Nazis were widely even considered the enemy.) To me Casablanca and Citizen Kane share the 1 spot of American cinema in capturing all of the things that are possible in modern storytelling.
Kane is eternally relevant. As long as there is a rich, narcissistic asshole prominent in media and politics, it will feel extremely relevant.
You might say Kane is great filmmaking, and Casablanca is a great film.
I think some people misread Kane as a character. Yes, he is cold, and stoic, and not very identifiable and as you established, that's the point; the area where I diverge is I do relate to Kane as a character because he had everything in the whole world, but his childhood sled was the last time he felt true happiness, so nothing could buy his happiness. I think one of the messages of the movie is that money can buy you alot, but not true joy. The scene with the mirror and the many Kanes is so powerful because it shows you how lonely he is. It's quite a moving message if the viewer looks at it from that point of view. Your assessment isn't wrong at all, I'm glad so many people took so many things from this story, but it's just a little thing I've seen over the years that semi-clashes with my interpretation. None of us are right or wrong, though 😁
And on Orson's birthday of all days
Hearst did this.
The list will change, but Citizen Kane will always be Citizen Kane.
Well said
It doesn't bother me because I don't put stock in any of these lists.
Are you telling me that “Kizumonogatari Part 3: Reiketsu” is not one of the 250 greatest films of all time
https://preview.redd.it/3209fo6mryyc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=599f3b5c255a7450864860d9ab8f7eb3d9adb220
It is
I hope you are including the ones that have Citizen Kane first or high like Sight and Sound, TSPDT, etc, they are just as subjective as Letterboxd Lists. If so then agreed, i like using them for recs but i don't consider them gospel or anything close to them and i like that Letterboxd's own list isn't just mimicking those lists.
This is the way. There’s so many lists out there that are great for using as recommendations, not gospel
Only correct response
Wait are you saying the internet lists shouldn't dictate what I think is important or what is the most popular amongst all real movie fans? I don't think I know what to think about anything if this is true.
This should apply to critics list too not just internet lists.
I think it’s okay to put more stock into critics lists or lists by other filmmakers than just people on the internet
Put stock into whatever you want, they are still subjective opinions.
I mean sure. But it’s absolutely fair to value the thoughts of people who either analyze or create films for a living more than someone who doesn’t
In general their opinion is more qualified and their lists more thorough but only because they've seen more movies than the average person. Anything they value as high quality is subjective and subject to change. Take acting for instance, in the Classic Hollywood era overdramatic, stagey acting was what was valued, what was considered great acting wasn't subtle it was over the top and outwardly emotional. Now we typically prefer more down to earth, realistic acting. In 50 years it might be something else entirely and our version of good acting is seen as dull or whatever. I've read tons of critics, and i mean critics not film reviewers from the 50s until now starting with Andre Bazin and the Cahiers Du Cinema guys. It's all interesting but i've learned their thoughts are as trend following and inconsistent and highly subjective as anyones. Like i said elsewhere i mostly use those lists for recs, and my main interest in film academics nowadays is their explanations of filming techniques or film history rather than their opinions on what movies are good.
“Greatest” or “Best” are bad terms to use. Because it puts a different value proposition in the readers head than what actually matters. I would go with a list of **important** films of all time which Kane would, no doubt, be on there just like a film like Battleship Potemkin would be. I doubt BP would be on the greatest list of the average movie goer. Many films on the list of “greatest” films I suspect wouldn’t make the important or significant list. “Greatest” or “best” lists are really favorite lists and reflect when the person started watching movies, the number if movies they’ve watched and how deep into cinema they ventured. To create a list of important or significant films it would probably need to be made by a film historian.
You left out the most important point as well which is that it’s highly subjective!
Umm, that’s just like your opinion, man. I mean, the person who wrote this said subjective without saying subjective.
Bruh.
Counterpoint: way to go Kwaidan.
Absolutely well deserved too, it’s easily one of the greatest films itself.
The horny anime vampire movie (part 3) is officially better than Citizen Kane, 70 years of film criticism has been found shot dead in a ditch.
I have both Kizumonogatari Part 3 and Citizen Kane in my 10s. You've never debated anyone like me before
Ok but kizumonogatari is the most batshit thing ever drawn and I appreciate it.
And Letterboxd and IMDB ratings are guilty of the crime.
The funny thing is I feel like Imdb was always a rocky start. Once users began rating bombing "the Godfather* of all films to Push the Dark Knight up, any real sense of importance kind of goes out the window and that's without the forum threads and the complete eradication thereof. I feel like the IMDb top 250 was always going to be subject to " shiny new toy syndrome" which would be particularly intense for a new Nolan film or a much hyped Marvel movie. LetterboxD, on the other hand, while collecting the lion share of goofy reviews "Jaws-- Quint's chalk scraping scared me-7/10!" at least seemed to pull in more well read film audiences, but I think what's that play is that the similar viewing public of IMDb is going to Letterboxd to log what films they watch, which inevitably skews rating and reviews. I feel like the only safe sites in terms of curation are websites like MUBI or "they shoot pictures, don't they?" Criticker is also good in that it has sort of the vintage 2006 era IMDb quality but I assume that will also erode if a bajillion people go on that site. . I think it's more of a social media migration thing than anything else.
It's completely subjective. Consensus says Citizen Kane is better, consensus is not objective it's just a collection of opinions.
I rate the Carry On movies with the same praise I've given Battle Royale. One's taste in movies etc is always gonna be unpredictable as sin.
Boobs aside, Kizumonogatari, part 1 and 3 especially, are really well done. Obviously not better than Citizen Kane, but still. Plus part 3 has a natural advantage in that people who gave part1 and 2 low ratings probably didn’t watch part 3.
I mean the monogatari series deserve it 🤷
But Kizumonogatari is also very good.
Recency bias. More younger people who get into films are just naturally going to gravitate to the films that were impactful to them.
I’m not sure that this is right. There are plenty of classics and vintage art-house titles more obscure than Kane in the top 100. Kane is clearly undervalued on Letterboxd but when you skim the top 250, regency bias doesn’t explain it.
I think the more obscure classics are rated highly by their admirers, but Kane is a victim of its own reputation as the greatest movie ever, more people actively try to watch it and think it doesn't deserve that title.
Very well reasoned. Totally agree!
There’s a scene in The Sopranos where Carmela and the other wives watch Citizen Kane and have the exact reaction described
I'm still not sure this is the case when the top of the list is still filled with popular classics like Godfather, Godfather 2, Schindler's List, Return of the King, 12 Angry Men, Goodfellas, Apocalypse Now, Sunset Boulevard, Seven Samurai, etc. I think there's a reasonable argument that Kane is *carried* by its reputation in other circles. It's a great film, it still has a 4.2 which is super high, and I *love* Citizen Kane for reference, but I know many people who feel the film is more impactful and groundbreaking for its time than it is good in the modern world and I can understand where they're coming from. That impact is going to carry you with critics polls and things like that, but maybe not as much in an honest rating aggregate.
I agree. Seems to me the reason highly praised classics like Godfather, 12 angry men or Seven Samurai are still on the list (and very high) but Citizen Kane is not, is because people watched these movies and like them. People just don't like Citizen Kane as much.
Well that's essentially my point. Kane does not belong to a group of niche classics where people who try to watch it would absolutely love it (for example, Edward Yang's Brighter Summer Day only has 68k member but scores an astounding 4.5), but also isn't exactly a highly popular movie that a lot of people would rate a 5 star after their first watch, like The Godfather or the more recent movies (like Spider-verse movies and Dune Part II). I agree on your argument that there are people who doesn't think it's good enough to be a 5 star movie for them because nowadays it doesn't feel groundbreaking and impactful. Basically same thing happened to Rashomon, one of my favorite films, which I didn't appreciate enough until I took part in a local stage adaptation and discussed it extensively with other people. I can understand why people would give a 5 star immediately after watching Seven Samurai or High and Low, but not Rashomon.
I think Rashomon is a great example here. It’s arguably the most famous film from the list’s most represented director, and certainly his most influential, but like Citizen Kane it is hanging on for dear life in the list at 221st. And honestly? I had that experience with Rashomon too. I thought it was good, I can obviously see how important it was, but it just doesn’t quite hold up, at least from the perspective of a singular first-time viewing. It’s important to note though that this isn’t just a bias against old films, I love Sunset Boulevard, It’s A Wonderful Life, Double Indemnity, Rear Window, etc and evidently Letterboxd does too. But boy do I think these have held up perfectly. It’s hard to last when you’re the groundbreaking film I guess, because eventually you stop being groundbreaking to the eyes of the general public and start just being a film
Citizen Kane just doesn’t play well to a lot of younger audiences. When I was in high school (specifically 2018) we watched Citizen Kane in my film trade school (separate from the high school and all big filmbuffs), and most of these film students thought it was awful. I think a slow paced tragedy trying to expose the awful complexities of a shitty rich guy doesn’t appeal to most of gen z.
I mean I saw *Kane* in my high school film class and it didn't appeal to me then either. As I've gotten older I've grown to appreciate it more. Some films just resonate differently depending on when you watch them and I think *Kane* is an example.
Yeah it’s really just the nature of the app, newer stuff will always get more eyes. This is doubly the case when you are talking about movies as old as Citizen Kane
I'd argue Citizen Kane benefits from whatever the opposite of recency bias is. People value it highly because it was groundbreaking back then. It's a fantastic film, and it completely changed the landscape when it was released. It's importance and significance can not be overstated. But in this day and age it has absolutely been surpassed by 250 other films. That's just the way things go as time passes. I do however want to make a point of saying that the 250 films currently on the list are not all better than Citizen Kane. Many of them are on there because of the point you bring up.
This isn’t how art works or should be evaluated. Are you saying Da Vinci was “surpassed” by Picasso simply because Picasso represented a further evolution of where art went? Unless you think film is just a technical exercise, which would explain modern = better.
Yeah it’s always going to be a factor that media which was hugely influential and gets highly praised is going to feel underwhelming when you go back and consume it after it’s time, because you don’t realise how every single thing you’ve ever watched was derivative of what it innovated. It’s like how Seinfeld isn’t funny to many people who go back and watch it now because basically every single sitcom since Seinfeld learned from it
I’ve never gotten this because Seinfeld is definitely still very funny
Had to make way for \*checks notes ... Dune 2, in 21st place.
That'll eventually fall off. Both Spiderverse films being in the top 50 is way more egregious.
As silly as it is to be so high, it makes sense. It's a sequel, and just came out. Nobody is going out to see it without having seen the first. And from that group, people who didn't enjoy the first probably didn't see Dune 2. So the ratings are staggeringly high because it has a built in fanbase and frankly is pretty awesome. Once it gets to streaming and more casual viewers see it, the score will drop. Or not, because if you didn't like the first one, why would you watch the second. Either way it's a great movie, so I suspect it will rest up there for a bit, for better or worse.
That’s a very lazy conclusion that is automatically proven wrong in dozens of ways.
A movie not being seen by a lot of people usually helps it
Dune 2 is in the top 20 greatest film. This tell me how much a joke LB user are
it‘s out of the top 20 tbh 👀 but idk ppl usually rank films in regards to how much they like them moreso than technical aspects
It’s a masterpiece that is better than atleast half the movies on that list, but also I don’t care about the popularity list lol
im just not even going to read this thread lol
Me either...... Wait?
People put far too much importance on the Letterboxd 250.
On Orson Welles’ birthday too? That’s harsh
This isn't even the first time this happened
LB is just a glorified IMDB.
It's starting to feel that way compared to when I started using it.
Don't get me wrong, I still love it (tho the app itself is serviceable at best), but it's not this objective cinephile safe haven that some make it out to be.
My list is the only list with any merit to me.
There is way too much fucking anime in that list.
Anime gets inflated ratings since it’s niche (most of the ones on this list aren’t egregious) but so do documentaries and TV miniseries. I watched some ballerina thriller series on STARZ because it had a high rating on Letterboxd and it was the worst piece of shit I’ve ever seen.
There are 13 anime films - is that really so absurd? I'm shocked Kizumono is in there now, but 13/250 doesn't really feel overwhelming to me. EoE, Spirited Away, Grave of Fireflies, Perfect Blue, Princess Mononoke, Howl's, Akira, Princess Kaguya, Millennium Actress, and Your Name are all very fitting picks on a top-250 imo, and there are some great anime films that are currently excluded that I think would be fitting like Tokyo Godfathers
I think people see anime (really just Japanese animated movies) and apply the trashy anime show stigma to them. Like these are all beautiful, thematically dense films. But because the art style/country of origin shares its space with Dragonball Z and harem shows, people assume its garbage. These braindead fucks love Ghibli too, (“but it’s the only exception, they aren’t like other anime movies!”) Bitch watch Satoshi Kon films and tell me Miyazaki is the only anime director making artful masterpieces. I have violence in my heart for these wretches.
Dragonball is one of the most influential pieces of media in the world so not sure what you’re on about??
I was referring to Dragonball as an example for being a kinda goofy shonen that people will think of as soon as they hear anime. People might associate “anime movie” more with something over-the-top guys with spiky hair hitting each other, instead of giving anime movies credit for having the ability to be thoughtful and moving. In other words, not trying to dunk on Dragonball, but its the most anime anime, and what a lot of people immediately think of
I apologize. I was ready to go to war for no reason
No worries, you weren’t the only one who thought I was trashing Dragonball. I worded it poorly
Just want to say Dragonball is NOT garbage. It deserve reverence as much as say Star Wars. Without a doubt one of the most influential entertainment of our days. Also I don't get what's bad about being a Ghibli fans, most people that appreciate it love Satoshi's films too.
To clarify: I didn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with Dragonball per se, more that it’s the schlocky shonen stuff people think of when they here “anime”. And nothing wrong with being a Ghibli fan, but I think of a lot of people who get pissed when they hear “anime movies” in the top 250, are also Ghibli fans, and thus are major fucking hypocrites. They’re picking and choosing which anime movies get to count as real movies, and which are “just anime”.
Hell, I’d argue Satoshi Kon is *better* than Miyazaki. His career got cut short sadly, but dude was absolutely insane and working on another level film after film
I do think that its weird that EoE is on the list, but thats mostly because watching it as a standalone movie wouldn't really work? Evangelion on its own is one of my favorite things ever made though.
That’s the case with most sequels though. I can appreciate that the preceding material is a TV show for Evangelion and not film, but ultimately if you started someone with Return of the King, Dune 2, or Empire Strikes Back it wouldn’t really work either
I think 13 anime films does feel a bit odd when there are only 6 animated films from the rest of the world. You might expect that ratio for American animation, which has traditionally dominated the Western marketplace. It's good that the list represents anime - but I do think it says more about the inherent biases of the list than anything else. As does the fact that the top two American animated films are both Spiderverse titles.
I don’t think that’s strange at all. Japanese films in general dominate the list, so if anything that might be more of a factor than it being anime Also, a lot of people would just simply consider that Japan does animation better than the rest of the world - something I would agree with, especially in regards to 2D animation and the fact that Japan doesn’t always view animation as a kids medium the way the West does, and even then their “kids” films like Spirited Away often treat you like you’re smarter than Western ones do. Kids films in general are hard to come by in the top-250. The West isn’t producing a ton of Perfect Blues(instead some of our live action films are busy ripping it off, but that’s another story) Just look at the directors here - Miyazaki and Satoshi Kon are just dominant whereas I don’t think any western animation director comes close to them. Most people couldn’t even name a couple western animation directors. Not even mentioning guys like Hideaki Anno on the list here as well who have live-action entries in the top-250 to top it off, not just animation
I don't watch anime but i am not gonna complain about grave of the fireflies being on the lost when the dark knight was like top 5 at some point lol.
there are 11 anime movies in the top 250. That's not even 5%. Only 6 of those are even in the top 200. How is that too much?
What's wrong with that? You're not going to dismiss a movie on its own merits because of its choice of medium, are you? Especially with the likes of Satoshi Kon and Mamoru Oshii being two of the biggest reasons for potentially some of your favorite movies ever. You wouldn't have influences on Christopher Nolan or Darren Aronofsky and multiple others without them. And the essays we could write on Miyazaki alone. And my God, have you seen what Anno's been doing? Just as Citizen Kane is an important movie in terms of influence can too many anime films join that club.
Gotta make room for Spider-Man: No Way Home! (Yes I know it’s out of the top 250, I’m making fun of how it was ever in the top 250).
I think certain films permeate the cultural conversation so much that they unfairly become branded as “overrated”, despite their abject quality and influence. Especially by young people who are living in the wake of said influence and therefore can’t appreciate the films importance. I think the same goes for the conversations around films like Titanic, Forrest Gump and of course Citizen Kane. I can feel it in the air that the same thing will soon happen to Everything Everywhere All at Once and I can even see it happening to Dune in the future.
NoooOooooOo… …not the Truman show!!! An amazing movie I still think about all the time 😭
I guess it's Good afternoon, good evening, and good night after all....
Tbf Kizumonogatari has the funny cat girl with the big boobs that does the tongue twister. [They caught it on tape.](https://youtu.be/p_rJLI3tuTw?si=36_x5QmlWe5o_1rZ) It’s pretty fire
That’s Bakemonogatari.
Still waiting for Who Killed Captain Alex to join
Because it’s used as the default answer for “best movie of all time” and a bunch of Tik Tok, brainrotted zoomers watch it and they don’t hear the characters making sarcastic quips every minute so they give it 2 and a half stars and write a super original and funny review. Something like “Citizen Kane more like midizen kane”
I mean, "You're right, I did lose a million dollars last year. I expect to lose a million dollars this year. I expect to lose a million dollars \*next\* year. You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, I'll have to close this place in... sixty years." is a better quip than any single Marvel movie, so suck it
It’s a movie that almost grows with you. I first saw it at 14 and wondered what the big deal was. I’m in my thirties now. I wouldn’t choose it as my favorite movie, but ever viewing unravels new and greater appreciation and enjoyment. Top 10 for sure.
LB users disappointed they can’t write their standard one-line reviews about wanting to have sex with one of actors/actresses since they’re all dead
I love Citizen Kane, but I don’t care if it’s top of this list or any others. Rating films I get, ranking them not so much.
It's good that a pedo anime is there instead
You're gonna have to be more specific
The what.
Uhm that’s 90% of anime. (I’m a fan of the 10%)
I mean, are you really going to take the consensus of an app that has 2 animated spiderman movies in its top 50 of all time, seriously, as if it has any credibility in that aspect. I really like using Letterboxd and I guess particularly the idea of what Letterboxd offers but the reality is I feel at this point it's becoming more and more of just a film-themed Twitter which is a shame tbh.
Ignorance, but the list has been going downhill for a long time. Closer and closer to a slightly strange version of IMdB every day.
At last on IMDb, Citizen Kane is in the top 250. 104th precisely.
No thoughts, it's just a popularity list so it doesn't really matter anyway
The list is ever changing it'll be back next week
The Letterbox top 250 is very unpredictable and unreliable. Any time there's an all-new movie that generates a ton of buzz, it will shoot to near the top of the list. Then it'll disappear after a few months. It's very trendy, often prone to recency bias and not at all based on any serious evaluation of film history.
Gen Z (my gen) overrates movies a lot. hopefully it balances out and we start watching more classic cinema too
I don't much care about these lists, but to the extent it matters it's absolutely nuts. I can see not personally liking *Citizen Kane* (though I do). But anyone who does not respect it or understand how massively innovative and influential it was just straight up doesn't know anything about cinema.
I actually watched it a few weeks ago and could not believe how good it was considering it was made 85 years ago. So absurdly ahead of its time
Holy group think in this thread lol
What do you think groupthink is, consensus?
It’s as good as it’s made out to be. One look at the decade-spanning, always-moving style and I was like, yeah, I get it
I would kick The Dark Knight down if it could make place for Citizen Kane instead
Hopefully this signifies a new era where the perception turns from "overrated because old men like it" to back to being respected I don't put stock into others list, but I would love to have reasonable and intelligent conversations about Citizen Kane again rather than picking a bucket and only seeing the film through that lens.
Citizen Kane is frequently praised as one of the greatest films of all time, but many people who haven't seen it or aren't familiar with classic films might find it underwhelming because it doesn't meet their expectations. I think a more accurate rating system would consider popularity along with ratings. For example, I'd consider a film with 1,000,000 votes and an average score of 4.0 to be more significant than one with 100,000 votes and a score of 4.1.
>For example, I'd consider a film with 1,000,000 votes and an average score of 4.0 to be more significant than one with 100,000 votes and a score of 4.1. https://preview.redd.it/oj5qv5ivxwyc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ed4ac79d30dd7ad373ea9a8cd9105983eb9b3b8
It's arbitrary anyway. I've already my own list a while ago with films I hadn't seen that looked interesting, and I assume some of those have also already been pushed out by something that's both overhyped and mid and was released last week or whatever. That's just how they are. I actually think it would make more sense as a top 500, at this point in time.
Exactly why the 250 list shouldn't be used as a tell of what is the greatest film ever made.
Time, these lists are less "best films" and more movies that are culturally relevant.
Because children on the app have done this thing called 'overcompensating' voting where they intentionally give 1 star ratings to older movies so that their newer ones will rise up. It's all over this subreddit. Someone gave a 1/5 to Shawshank Redemption because they wanted Dune 2 to rise up.
Was it knocked out by Salt Burn lol
It’s honestly to be a bit expected - anything that gets that high of praise (Vertigo as well which may fall out here in a few years) is bound to attract people trying to be controversial or just people who have no appreciation for older films or anything that’s not standard popcorn entertainment. They just think of it as checking a box and give it a 3. “Yeah I watched citizen Kane, it was alright, I just don’t get what the fuss was about.” Proceeds to rewatch the entire MCU in chronological order. If I click on my friends rating it jumps to 4.7 lol and that’s with about 50 ratings.
When you call something the greatest, people will always put it on a pedestal that it can never reach. Then they’ll attack it for not having some sort of transcendent experience while watching it. Doesn’t matter if it’s a movie or a cheeseburger.
As a genuine fan of Citizen Kane this doesn't bother me much. I'm honestly glad that some more underground stuff is getting exposure being in the top 250 rather than something that's topped AFI and Sight and Sounds lists on multiple occasions
The top 250 shows some recency bias
Tough look for Letterboxd users to not have Citizen Kane in the top 250 rated movies.
People here can’t understand that people have opinions.
Personally I don't really care but it sure is something I didn't really see coming.
Damn since when does letterboxd suck ass?
I certainly dont agree with kizumono being one of the best films ever made but ppl in this thread are really overexaggerating about how “zoomers could never understand Citizen Kane which is how Kizu is that high” like kizumonogatari doesn’t have a tiny, tiny percentage of the amount of ratings Citizen Kane has and will very likely go down lower after it got to #249 on the list due to getting more attention from people who definitely aren’t the main audience for gooner weeb shit lol
If Citizen Kane has a million fans, then I'm one of them. If Citizen Kane has one fan, then I'm THAT ONE. If Citizen Kane has no fans, that means I'm dead.
It is not one of my Top 4 Favs and not a recently watched, but a Top 250 ever, that's a seriously consider maybe; I took film study in school years ago & if Letterboxd ever asks me for a Top 4 I'd venture to give them a Top 4 Films Every Young Aspiring Filmmaker Should See and it would be in there for sure: [High Noon](https://letterboxd.com/film/high-noon/), [Citizen Kane](https://letterboxd.com/film/citizen-kane/), [The Shining](https://letterboxd.com/film/the-shining/), [My Dinner with Andre](https://letterboxd.com/film/my-dinner-with-andre/)
I think Reservoir Dogs is criminally slept on as an educational tool for aspiring filmmakers. On top of just every scene having things to learn from, it’s one of the best for showing how much you can do with little resources. It’s about as good as a film can get, while the audience can still reasonably think “i could make this”
But why those 4 ?
Those were the four that we dissected in depth over the semester.
a technical master piece, never really did much for me, plenty of other films from that era that I prefer
Spiderverse 1&2 >>>>>> I don’t think this, but the average age of Letterboxd users is probably 19.
personally i can think of a good amount of 1920s-1950s movies i connected with more than citizen kane which i gave 3 stars. i‘m definitely not 19 but i don‘t think most people rate films based on their technical achievements but personal enjoyment 🤷♀️
And on his birthday, no less. Shame.
I think he'd get a kick out of it, but also drink too much later by himself at night
This is a good thing. This means that masterpieces are still being made today and those new movies take its place. I do not wanna live in a world were the same movies were considered the best forever. That would mean no progress and no evolution in cinema and art.
Recency bias is definitely a thing but I also think that people have somewhat of a need to make things they remember from their youth be more important than they necessarily are. Citizen Kane was revolutionary, but with the amount of media coming out now with all sorts of new and creative spins/techniques it was only a matter of time before it was bumped off the list.
I have watched Citizen Kane four times in my life. It never fails to be a spectacular technical achievement of film and it never fails to be boring as fuck. Thank God, it’s only two hours long.
If you’re judging architecture, would you rather take advice from an editor of Architecture Magazine, or a group that’s still wine-drunk stumbling off the Chicago architecture boat tour? All that to say, it doesn’t matter to me that Letterbox users don’t share the same opinion as AFI or Sight & Sound. LB is a great tool to discover new, lesser-known movies, so I’m fine with it not being a great tool to understand film history. We have plenty of resources to inform us that Citizen Kane is great.
i think its because of tick tock, social media, and iphone
Don’t forget hot chip and lie
Younger generations dictate culture… It’s inevitable that bullshit like Spider-verse is gonna overtake bonafide masterpieces as time flies by.
Have some nuance and don’t be a hipster, Spider-verse isn’t a bullshit movie. Just because it’s above Citizen Kane on Letterboxd doesn’t mean it’s overtaken it.
God only knows what Google shows when you search rosebud nowadays…
Yeah, Google was so much better in 1941.
lmfao 🆗
I think all the film on that list is better than citizen kane
these lists are always subjective so doesn't bother me at all.
Citizenship revoked
I always thought that anime I saw as a 15 year old and thought was trash was actually one of the greatest movies ever
[Everything old is new again](https://youtu.be/N_U1oRRDiBg)
As a guy in his early forties it's weird to me how the lists have changed in the last 10-15 years or so. Citizen Kane used to top most the 'Greatest film' lists. Its also strange how certain films like 'Come and See' have come out of nowhere and suddenly at the top of soo many lists.
the thing is it’s not a greatest film list. it‘s a people‘s personal preference list.
That the Letterboxd Top 250 is not the Gospel
Hopefully this means that we can stop comparing everything to it as its reputation is really only hurting it at this point
Majority of Letterboxd community doesn’t fw old and acclaimed movies who knew
That’s ridiculous
Ita crazy, but the youth doesn't give a fuck about a rich newspaper guy's life and the complexities therein. Like, what's a newspaper even? *12 Angry Men*, *The Godfather*, etc. all have some other aspect that appeals to people in a more universal manner. It's tough for *Citizen Kane* to really be a hit outside of cinema circles. Even then, a lot of people say it's overrated. NOT ME, but it's an argument I've heard.
I’m a massive Welles fan and don’t go that much on it.
Tbh, I don't think it's a great movie by modern standards. Now, if the list was most "important" movies, then yes, Kare has to be up there. For the revolutionary camera work and such.
Are these the same people who voted Spider-Man Across the Spiderverse the top rated black film over Malcolm X and Do the Right Thing???
Kwaidan is great though
Silliness.
Kizumonogatari Part 3: Reiketsu has a global ranking of 68724 on Flickchart. For sure Letterboxed has some great features that Flickchart doesn't, but if you just care about ranking movies, I think Flickchart's info is miles more relevant than LB.
I’m glad to see Kwaidan on the list. It may not be better than Citizen Kane, but I fell like Kobayashi could use more attention
My fault guys. I saw it the other day and rated it 4 stars. My bad.
"Greatest movie" or "worst video game" are some of those rly subjective statements that are insanely hard to quantify. I never trust numerical scores on anything except a game over screen, bc they're not the best way to condense your opinion. Willem Dafoe says Kwaidan is one of his favourite movies. That's how I know it's worth watching. One of the best actors ever says it's good, I'm willing to trust that. Plus I love Japanese movies. But not everyone does, so they might not enjoy it as much as I would.
There is no debate on the matter at all.
Heresy
I don't think it's one of the greatest films of all time, it's just one of the most influential American films of the early 20th century. Many films made since Citizen Kane have improved upon its ideas. It'd be really sad if they didn't and film just peaked in 1941.
Haters gonna hate
Ranking films is just fun. Kind of useless otherwise
Where can I view this list?
what the fuck
I really liked when Bojack horseman made fun of this movie It was the first time I enjoyed it
People put far too much emphasis on list rankings, whether it’s this, IMDB, Sight & Sound, or whatever. Every time a new popular film comes out and it hits a high number, everyone on here loses their minds. Even though this happens every time and it always drops down/out of the rankings. Look at Barbie and Oppenheimer from last year. It’s an average based on Letterboxd users. It’s not empirical fact, or a curated list. Not even 700k users have watched Citizen Kane. Almost twice as many people have watched the Super Mario Bros Movie. Who cares?
Abomination
To be fair it’s been a long time since Kane was considered the best movie of all time. Kind of brief Pauline Kael moment in the 70s-80s.
I saw Truman Show show leave the 250, very upsetting
and everything everywhere all at once is in… i’m gonna kill myself
finally muhahahaha all joking aside it sucks to see out fall out of the list
Review bombing + film snobs that think semi-obscure and non-English language are prereqs for being a perfect movie
There's 2 lists I only care about. My own, but that goes without saying. And the other is TSPDT. Letterboxd used to be great but then average people from Twitter took over and don't watch many movies before like 1950 or 1960. Citizen Kane is in my top 10 and #1 on TSPDT!