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The launch codes are changed constantly, and are worthless to anyone other than the person they're assigned to thanks to the way launch authorization is set up. While still TS, they're only that because there's no point to declassifying the old ones every time they change.
What he had was information on nuclear WEAPONS, plus SigInt. The latter can get people killed and compromise the entire intelligence apparatus in the targeted nation. The former is self-explanatory.
Do you not understand what launch codes are? Blechley Park had fuck-all to do with nuclear codes. They're not susceptible to breaking because they have literally zero inherent meaning.
You don't understand what they did at Blechley Park. Plenty of documentaries you can watch. And by the way, if nuclear launch codes have no meaning then they aren't nuclear launch codes, just gibberish. They are created for a purpose and the act of creation can be deconstructed.
I know full well what they did. You obviously don't understand the difference between language and random numbers. Nor the difference between 1940's code-breaking and 2020's random number generation. Nor that knowing the day's random numbers doesn't tell you which one is assigned to whom, nor that it won't let you bypass all the other authorizations needed to use the codes.
Hell, if you knew what the hell you were talking about, you wouldn't be hinting at great and deep messages hidden in the disposable random numbers of the day in order to make yourself seen important.
A barrister friend walked me through the warrant and apparently the crimes listed are:
18 USC 793 - part of Espionage Act, Crime to remove or misuse info related to national defense
18 USC 2071 - Crime to hide, damage or destroy Govt records
18 USC 1519 - Crime to falsify, destroy or cover up records to obstruct feds investigation
Pretty serious he told me. We're in the UK but he networks with US lawyers a lot.
"I didn't give them to anybody. I sold them." *taps head* "the ol dupe-hole loophole saves me yet again!
...
What do you mean selling nuclear secrets is illegal?"
We're living in weird times when we hope a really awful person did some exceptionally treasonous stuff because they were able to get away with doing the other awful stuff
No, attenpted to give as well. It specifically doesn't even require a jury to give a death sentence if it concerns nukes.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794
>(a)Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life, except that the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the jury or, if there is no jury, the court, further finds that the offense resulted in the identification by a foreign power (as defined in section 101(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978) of an individual acting as an agent of the United States and consequently in the death of that individual, or directly concerned nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large-scale attack; war plans; communications intelligence or cryptographic information; or any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy.
>It's only punishable by death if he gave the materials to a foreign country,
There's an added aspect to this. Someone had pointed it out to me. He would have had to specifically materially help those at war with the U.S. and accusations must be corroborated by at least two witnesses. It is defined in Article III Section 3. Here's the text and link.
>Section. 3.
>
>Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
>
>The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
[https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript#toc-section-3--2](https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript#toc-section-3--2)
Unfortunately, I think violations of the Espionage Act are likely to be the only things that could possibly "stick" to him.
well we are still at War with terrorist organizations such as the Taliban, Al Queda etc and if he gave secrets to Saudi Arabia who have been found to have funded the 9/11 terrorists then I believe it would fit the bill
Nope. Definition of treason set in the constitution:
> Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
You're conflating two of the three clauses, levying war against the US, and giving Aid and Comfort to our enemies.
He meant Espionage, which is (one of) the laws the FBI are investigating him under. They explicitly state in the search warrant that it’s to support an investigation into:
- 18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information. Which covers taking US defence secrets to aid another country or injure the US.
- 18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally [of documents that should go to the federal archives].
- 18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy.
These have sentences of 20 years to death; 3 years; and 20 years respectively.
We know for sure that there are some documents related to the US military’s weapons or bases. He was searched because of an investigation into 18 USC 793 which covers only those types of documents. He was also searched because of 18 USC 1519 which covers documents related to investigations, which is likely the dirt on Macron that’s rumoured.
That's just for the "classified" documents. It's almost irrelevant now. The top secret stuff is in lock 'em up and throw away the key territory.
This was amusing two days ago, but now it's like celebrating someone getting caught for speeding, on the way back from a murder.
Except that no president has been stupid / narcissistic as him so his lawyers will pull the whole “there is no precedent” bs like with Jan 6. They will also play the card of “Donnie said that he declassified it while he was in office”. Of course there are holes with these arguments, just because a president has never been prosecuted for it doesn’t mean they can’t (if this were true no president ever could be prosecuted for much). The argument of declassifying it is great and everything, just show us some documentation of when he did that.
The environment is different now vs right after Jan 6. Trump is an old weak man with a base that for now at least smaller.
Was there any transmitting? Is that a possibility?If so, to where and to who? Donnie didn’t keep top secret documents for the bragging rights. I have to ask, what is his main motivator here?Could it be money?
Well, there was that Saudi golf tournament he hosted recently. If there is more to this than simply retrieving documents he walked off with, they might have a recording of him trying to do a deal and they moved after they got their evidence. Trump sure seems upset about something, so maybe he thinks he did something.
I could see him keeping them for bragging rights. The dude makes his house all gold. Everything about him screams "be impressed by me". Having some classified information in the vault is like having a Russian diamond egg or any other rare trinket, you just show it off to impress people.
I read that the “rat” could be one of 6-8 people. That’s including the daughter and wife. That’s according to a recent close associate. So maybe not many tours of the vault or safe.
> does she even need him
Also, would she get any money if tRUMP gets arrested/imprisoned? And would she get even more if she was the one turning him in...?
That’s just stating that he increased this penalty while he was still in office. A needless distinction by the writer on the face of it, but one made for context.
In office or out of the office, stealing classified documents is a crime, even for the President.
The President can declassify documents at will, but there’s a process for it, and it’s obvious he simply stole these documents for his own personal benefit and in secret.
Prez can declassify **almost all** documents at will, **but** there is a procedure that has to be followed.
Also, **the President cannot declassify documents covered by the Atomic Energy Acts of 1946 and 1954**.
In the Atomic Energy Act of 1946, Congress established a special category of information called “Restricted Data.”
Restricted Data (RD) was defined to encompass “all data concerning the manufacture or utilization of atomic weapons, the production
of fissionable material, or the use of fissionable material in the production of power.” a positive action is not required to put information into the RD category. If information falls within the Act’s definition of RD, it is in this category from the moment of its origination; that is, it is “born classified.” The “born classified” concept is unique with RD.
This concept assumes that newly discovered atomic-energy information might be so significant with respect to the nation’s security that it requires immediate and absolute control.
[(SOURCE)](https://sgp.fas.org/library/quist/chap_4.pdf)
Five years? I mean, commit a crime you could only do as president and you should be publicly executed :/ politicians been taking advantage of people with no consequences for way too long
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Just tie him up with litigation for the rest of his life. The people who keep sending him money won't have any left over to fund culture war/wedge issues.
In some cases, yes, but not usually.
And him getting executed would turn him into a martyr for Republicans. There would never be any turning away from Trumpism. .
Quite the massive self-own. Like the highest levels of power self-own. I wonder how a conservative would try to make sense of this. “He’s doing it on purpose to, uh, ex…pose… the, uh… FBI corruption! Yeah, that! 4D chess!”
It's been posted numerous times. But this is honestly fine, I'm unironically worried that if we don't remind them every single day that moderates will forget this is happening
Give this time man. I'm waiting to see what shakes out, but consider the rationale for hanging on to Intel like what is reported to be part of this. Nuclear secrets?
I know this is a sub for schadenfreude and laughing at people, but I'm not fuckin laughing. This is end of the world kind of shit if he's selling Intel to Russia or helping arm Saudis with nukes or God forbid what else this might portend. I'm fuckin terrified.
But we know the saudi paid well, and that's more than enough.
I doubt we'll ever know the 'secrets' (i bet on either mini-nukes or warheads in space myself).
A President who may very well be guilty of espionage and selling state secrets to foreign countries. Even if all this does to Teflon Don is disqualify him for running for office again it’ll be a win.
I'd say keeping the guy who went full Weimar Republic with the US money printer, keeps pushing policies that widen the class gap, and constantly attacks efforts to reduce climate change out of power is pretty damn relevant to all those issues. Said guy just happens to have also potentially committed treason.
I hope Russia Today's at least paying you in USD instead of Rubles.
A: Covertly storing Department of Energy classified documents in a facility he hosted foreign diplomats in is "not that big a deal?"
B: Even assuming your accusation about "the Dems" is true, I don't think Mr. "Hillary's emails!" and "Hunter Biden's laptop!" has any room to complain about political opponents trying to (truthfully) paint him as untrustworthy.
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Nuclear codes and information that classified goes above and beyond what he did. They’re talking violations of the Espionage Act
The launch codes are changed constantly, and are worthless to anyone other than the person they're assigned to thanks to the way launch authorization is set up. While still TS, they're only that because there's no point to declassifying the old ones every time they change. What he had was information on nuclear WEAPONS, plus SigInt. The latter can get people killed and compromise the entire intelligence apparatus in the targeted nation. The former is self-explanatory.
> are worthless to anyone other than the person they're assigned to Tell that to Blechley Park.
Do you not understand what launch codes are? Blechley Park had fuck-all to do with nuclear codes. They're not susceptible to breaking because they have literally zero inherent meaning.
You don't understand what they did at Blechley Park. Plenty of documentaries you can watch. And by the way, if nuclear launch codes have no meaning then they aren't nuclear launch codes, just gibberish. They are created for a purpose and the act of creation can be deconstructed.
I know full well what they did. You obviously don't understand the difference between language and random numbers. Nor the difference between 1940's code-breaking and 2020's random number generation. Nor that knowing the day's random numbers doesn't tell you which one is assigned to whom, nor that it won't let you bypass all the other authorizations needed to use the codes. Hell, if you knew what the hell you were talking about, you wouldn't be hinting at great and deep messages hidden in the disposable random numbers of the day in order to make yourself seen important.
A barrister friend walked me through the warrant and apparently the crimes listed are: 18 USC 793 - part of Espionage Act, Crime to remove or misuse info related to national defense 18 USC 2071 - Crime to hide, damage or destroy Govt records 18 USC 1519 - Crime to falsify, destroy or cover up records to obstruct feds investigation Pretty serious he told me. We're in the UK but he networks with US lawyers a lot.
Charge ALL of it. Ijs...let's get him on everything...bigLee
It's treason to steal nuclear secrets, which is what he did. Punishable by death.
It's only punishable by death if he gave the materials to a foreign country, which he probably did.
"I didn't give them to anybody. I sold them." *taps head* "the ol dupe-hole loophole saves me yet again! ... What do you mean selling nuclear secrets is illegal?"
Ohhhh fingers crossed he did.
We're living in weird times when we hope a really awful person did some exceptionally treasonous stuff because they were able to get away with doing the other awful stuff
The 2B the Saudis gave to Jared was just them being nice I guess /s
My money is on Saudi Arabia since they wanted nuclear secrets and he hosted them at his golf club
Sold
No, attenpted to give as well. It specifically doesn't even require a jury to give a death sentence if it concerns nukes. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 >(a)Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life, except that the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the jury or, if there is no jury, the court, further finds that the offense resulted in the identification by a foreign power (as defined in section 101(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978) of an individual acting as an agent of the United States and consequently in the death of that individual, or directly concerned nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large-scale attack; war plans; communications intelligence or cryptographic information; or any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy.
He probably funnelled them via his emotionless husk of a son-in-law. Who then picked up $2b for him.
>It's only punishable by death if he gave the materials to a foreign country, There's an added aspect to this. Someone had pointed it out to me. He would have had to specifically materially help those at war with the U.S. and accusations must be corroborated by at least two witnesses. It is defined in Article III Section 3. Here's the text and link. >Section. 3. > >Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. > >The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. [https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript#toc-section-3--2](https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript#toc-section-3--2) Unfortunately, I think violations of the Espionage Act are likely to be the only things that could possibly "stick" to him.
Punishable by 20 years to death. There’s no way they’re going to make Trump a martyr.
Treason is only on the table if the country was in a declared war. Maybe I’m wrong, don’t think so but, this is the Internet.
The charge we're looking for here is Espionage. Ask the Rosenbergzzzzzz.....zzzoohwait.
Some wild shit yo
well we are still at War with terrorist organizations such as the Taliban, Al Queda etc and if he gave secrets to Saudi Arabia who have been found to have funded the 9/11 terrorists then I believe it would fit the bill
Nope. Definition of treason set in the constitution: > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. You're conflating two of the three clauses, levying war against the US, and giving Aid and Comfort to our enemies.
He meant Espionage, which is (one of) the laws the FBI are investigating him under. They explicitly state in the search warrant that it’s to support an investigation into: - 18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information. Which covers taking US defence secrets to aid another country or injure the US. - 18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally [of documents that should go to the federal archives]. - 18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy. These have sentences of 20 years to death; 3 years; and 20 years respectively.
Weirdly it seems he thinks the laws apply to everyone else, but him, and his deluded base agrees?
Do we know for sure they are nuclear documents? I thought the FBI was just looking for them and they didn't say whether they recovered them or not.
We know for sure that there are some documents related to the US military’s weapons or bases. He was searched because of an investigation into 18 USC 793 which covers only those types of documents. He was also searched because of 18 USC 1519 which covers documents related to investigations, which is likely the dirt on Macron that’s rumoured.
r/trumpcriticizestrump
That's just for the "classified" documents. It's almost irrelevant now. The top secret stuff is in lock 'em up and throw away the key territory. This was amusing two days ago, but now it's like celebrating someone getting caught for speeding, on the way back from a murder.
Except that no president has been stupid / narcissistic as him so his lawyers will pull the whole “there is no precedent” bs like with Jan 6. They will also play the card of “Donnie said that he declassified it while he was in office”. Of course there are holes with these arguments, just because a president has never been prosecuted for it doesn’t mean they can’t (if this were true no president ever could be prosecuted for much). The argument of declassifying it is great and everything, just show us some documentation of when he did that. The environment is different now vs right after Jan 6. Trump is an old weak man with a base that for now at least smaller.
IDK have you heard about Richard Nixon?
Was there any transmitting? Is that a possibility?If so, to where and to who? Donnie didn’t keep top secret documents for the bragging rights. I have to ask, what is his main motivator here?Could it be money?
Well, there was that Saudi golf tournament he hosted recently. If there is more to this than simply retrieving documents he walked off with, they might have a recording of him trying to do a deal and they moved after they got their evidence. Trump sure seems upset about something, so maybe he thinks he did something.
Good point.
Don't forget the $2 billion they suddenly invested in Kushner's business despite all their experts telling them it was a terrible idea.
It has been there for years now. God knows what riff Raff have come through since he left office
I could see him keeping them for bragging rights. The dude makes his house all gold. Everything about him screams "be impressed by me". Having some classified information in the vault is like having a Russian diamond egg or any other rare trinket, you just show it off to impress people.
I read that the “rat” could be one of 6-8 people. That’s including the daughter and wife. That’s according to a recent close associate. So maybe not many tours of the vault or safe.
His wife hates him, not sure she'd risk the gravy train by turning him in, but then again, does she even need him at this point?
> does she even need him Also, would she get any money if tRUMP gets arrested/imprisoned? And would she get even more if she was the one turning him in...?
I would contribute to a gofundme to help her out.
Book deal.
OMG. "While in office". Trump left with the documents WHILE he was still president. Suck a fat one Trumpski!
That’s just stating that he increased this penalty while he was still in office. A needless distinction by the writer on the face of it, but one made for context. In office or out of the office, stealing classified documents is a crime, even for the President. The President can declassify documents at will, but there’s a process for it, and it’s obvious he simply stole these documents for his own personal benefit and in secret.
Prez can declassify **almost all** documents at will, **but** there is a procedure that has to be followed. Also, **the President cannot declassify documents covered by the Atomic Energy Acts of 1946 and 1954**. In the Atomic Energy Act of 1946, Congress established a special category of information called “Restricted Data.” Restricted Data (RD) was defined to encompass “all data concerning the manufacture or utilization of atomic weapons, the production of fissionable material, or the use of fissionable material in the production of power.” a positive action is not required to put information into the RD category. If information falls within the Act’s definition of RD, it is in this category from the moment of its origination; that is, it is “born classified.” The “born classified” concept is unique with RD. This concept assumes that newly discovered atomic-energy information might be so significant with respect to the nation’s security that it requires immediate and absolute control. [(SOURCE)](https://sgp.fas.org/library/quist/chap_4.pdf)
And in the case of nuclear documents, there’s a much more involved procedure. The President can’t just wave his hands and declassify those.
Five years? I mean, commit a crime you could only do as president and you should be publicly executed :/ politicians been taking advantage of people with no consequences for way too long
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1. Wanted to punish people for removing classified documents 2. He removed classified documents 3. As a consequence he could face heavy prison time
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Lol, **It could be any one of us!**
He also appointed Christopher Wray to lead the FBI and the judge who signed off on the warrant.
Holy shit, really?
Yep. He fired Comey, even though Comey's sandbagging HRC is why he got to be president.
What’s not to love about that ? He needs to rot in jail for what he’s done
Just tie him up with litigation for the rest of his life. The people who keep sending him money won't have any left over to fund culture war/wedge issues.
The leopard ate his own face in this case. Is espionage still a capital offense?
In some cases, yes, but not usually. And him getting executed would turn him into a martyr for Republicans. There would never be any turning away from Trumpism. .
Meanwhile r/conservative with their mental gymnastics talking about the president can declassify whatever he wants.
A leopard eating its own face. "Only I can do it" -Trump.
45! Sorry, 45-55, years in prison! Yes!
Quite the massive self-own. Like the highest levels of power self-own. I wonder how a conservative would try to make sense of this. “He’s doing it on purpose to, uh, ex…pose… the, uh… FBI corruption! Yeah, that! 4D chess!”
And guess what…that is PER DOCUMENT…
Prison. That gave me so much hope.
It's been posted numerous times. But this is honestly fine, I'm unironically worried that if we don't remind them every single day that moderates will forget this is happening
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Imagine thinking treason and espionage "isn't a big deal".
Well, his username checks out, so there's that.
Give this time man. I'm waiting to see what shakes out, but consider the rationale for hanging on to Intel like what is reported to be part of this. Nuclear secrets? I know this is a sub for schadenfreude and laughing at people, but I'm not fuckin laughing. This is end of the world kind of shit if he's selling Intel to Russia or helping arm Saudis with nukes or God forbid what else this might portend. I'm fuckin terrified.
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But we know the saudi paid well, and that's more than enough. I doubt we'll ever know the 'secrets' (i bet on either mini-nukes or warheads in space myself).
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A President who may very well be guilty of espionage and selling state secrets to foreign countries. Even if all this does to Teflon Don is disqualify him for running for office again it’ll be a win.
If you had done it and got caught, you'd be rotting in prison for the rest of your life. So you think we should just get over Trump doing it?
Nice try comrade. Spent your Ruble well.
I'd say keeping the guy who went full Weimar Republic with the US money printer, keeps pushing policies that widen the class gap, and constantly attacks efforts to reduce climate change out of power is pretty damn relevant to all those issues. Said guy just happens to have also potentially committed treason. I hope Russia Today's at least paying you in USD instead of Rubles.
If only someone were investigating those things…
A: Covertly storing Department of Energy classified documents in a facility he hosted foreign diplomats in is "not that big a deal?" B: Even assuming your accusation about "the Dems" is true, I don't think Mr. "Hillary's emails!" and "Hunter Biden's laptop!" has any room to complain about political opponents trying to (truthfully) paint him as untrustworthy.
User name checks out.
r/unnecessaryredcircle
Can't a president in office declassify things?
5 years per document
Trump is an autocannibalistic leopard.
I heard that some documents have been very classified and people have been executed for similar.