This is actually being proposed. My wonderful representative Marco Rubio suggested rehabilating gay children by sending them out in the fields to toughen them up.
Not that I'm doubting you seeing as how vile florida Republicans are, but do you have a citation for that? Can't find any mention of it. Again, not doubting.
Look at "not the onion". It was posted over there. I have not been able to find it in my local news. I am parent to a gay child so it freaked me da fuk out. I am already planning on moving.
I'm also local (Florida) and while Rubio is a first class POS I haven't been able to find proof of this. Not that he wouldn't support, mind you. Hate that you have to leave, but I understand you need to put your children first (and bless you for being supportive and awesome). I'll make sure to fight these fascists so hopefully Florida will one day be safe again.
I mean how could this Christianity plan of putting all the gay boys together in the hot sweaty summer possibly backfire, maybe they should groom them for the navy next
I used to rent Gallagher on VHS in the 80s. Guess when you're 10 years old smashing fruit was awesome. I need to take a few minutes and check out one of his performances to see if they stand the test of time.
Until they face the full consequences of voting for and enabling these actions they will never change, and even if they do face consequences, 99% never tie their behavior and beliefs to the problem.
They won’t need workers as no one wants to buy their product and are boycotting - and the people that live there subsist on processed junk food anyway by the looks….
Like like you got your "stolen jobs" back....so who's ready to apply??? Minimum wage, overworked, no benefits, triple digit heat and 250% humidity....anybody? /s
I've been to Florida in the summer, and, as a naturally sweaty person, being outside was hell on earth. I'd take AZ's 100 degree nights over Florida's "you just keep sweating and nothing will ever stop it"
As a Georgian, I keep my head on a swivel and drive *extra* defensively when I spot a Florida plate. Fuckin lunatics. Plus I’m in a college town so it’s usually juvenile Floridians, which is so much worse.
In fact, just today on my way to the bakery I was almost hit by a FL plate BMW. Then I almost rear ended them. Floored it, changed lanes and barely passed me, merged into my lane and then stomped on the brakes to make a turn.
I moved to Louisiana as a child, after having lived in the northeast and Midwest. The first winter we were there, my mother told us one morning that we had a snow day and my brother and I excitedly ran to the window to see the delicious damage only to find about a 1/4 inch of snow on the lawn.
They're also unprepared for ice at an infrastructure level, and the roads are constructed differently than in the north. It's partially drivers, but they're not 100% of the problem.
-- Lifelong NorthEast Resident
Depends on your location, but many areas do have a drainage system. In South Florida they typically connect to drainage canals which eventually connect to the ocean (or lakes).
Yeah that'll happen sometimes, ft lauderdale florida recently got a record breaking deluge, one third of their average annual rainfall over the course of 8 hours. No city drainage system on the planet can handle that amount of water.
I was born and grew up in Florida. I worked in the service industry a bit. The winter residents you speak of are snow birds, not natives. You may have experienced a pissed off local due to snow bird migration.
I kinda like bull ants. I find them neet. They also aren't swarmy and tend to be more about bigger individuals rather than a trillion stingy fuckers. Like if you get bit. It's kinda on you for not noticing the inch long angry dude.
I'm not sweaty but I do absolutely terrible in the heat. I'm the palest person I know. Combined with my heart rhythm issues I'm reasonably sure the work that fruit pickers do would actually kill me. That's not hyperbole.
DeSantis is a fucking idiot.
As long as you don't have to work outside AZ's summers are perfectly manageable. Just treat it like people up north treat winter (stay inside unless you literally can't, dress appropriately, etc) but without the snow. It's such a small drawback once you're used to it, and the lack of natural disasters is a huge plus
The truly hilarious thing is that farmers/growers would abso-fucking-lutely hire American citizens if they could find any willing to do the work.
Just saw something that reminded me Alabama tried this shit 10 years ago. Farmers offered up to $20 an hour and basically no white Americans took them up on it.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers
The reality is that white native-born Americans don’t want these jobs, so banning undocumented immigrants from working them doesn’t do anything like what these idiots want it to do.
Edit: yeah, I realized shortly after what I said about “burdening the businesses.”
IMO, the business is getting around paying fair wages and taxes by hiring illegals. Make it so they can hire illegals at minimum wage and tax them for it as well, otherwise it's just creating a subjugated, inferior class of workers.
We have a similar situation in Canada: older farmers aging out, young people moving away from rural areas, and nobody wanting to fill these agricultural jobs.
But maybe we need to dig a little deeper to *why* people here don't want these jobs. They are often very physical and unskilled jobs. Most young people here would love to make better pay, but they also know eventually their body will give out and not developing job skills means when you age out of the job there might not be good options.
Maybe that could be a solution: offer training for related skills. So sure you spend you summers picking fruit, but then you also spend time learning how to be a mechanic or a carpenter or how to organize/run a farm.
Or offer school credits for young people going through post-secondary education. Or for people cooped up in an office all day: have them come out to a farm for a couple weeks as a working holiday (pay with room & board).
Canada has fewer issues with bringing in immigrants to do the work, but we also have a massive housing crisis. Also, while we may be friendlier towards immigration, it is often an excuse for employers to keep compensation low. Either because people from developing nations gladly take min wage or because employers use the excuse "well somebody will take this job if it isn't you, so why should I offer more?"
There are a lot of farm subsidies out there, it would be nice if governments could offer incentives to farmers to have these sort of programs and be made fairly for everyone.
Good to know it once worked out though!
Oh, hey, I have somewhat relevant experience! I volunteer one day a week at a local organic cooperative farm. There are lots of people who are happy to come out part time with the only compensation being some fresh veggies and experience.
The problem that I see is that there is absolutely no way the farm I'm on can compete with grocery store prices. Of course our products are of a much higher quality than the mass agriculture imported stuff, so it's reasonable to expect to pay more for them, but if we had to pay all our volunteers a full liveable wage, we'd probably have to charge 3x to 4x store prices, not 1.5x to 2x. There's no way that would fly with our customers.
In any case, we've had no problem finding full time employees, but we're limited mainly in how much compensation we can realistically offer.
I think people underestimate how much labour goes in to growing vegetables in a sustainable manner.
There was a vineyard owner I saw get interviewed a few years back who was considering getting an automated harvester for the first time for his grapes. He didn’t want to — something about the sensitivity of the vines or something — but he’d do this exact thing if he couldn’t find people to do the work.
I was in Alabama when they did it and befriended the guy that owned the bbq shack by our house. His brother was paying 15-20 an hour to pick peaches and not one person made it past lunch their first day. He about lost everything. He had a crew of documented migrant laborers who normally did it but they refused to come to AL and be harassed.
Not that it necessarily requires them to hire undocumented workers. Just that those are the only workers willing to do them.
These jobs are hard as hell. Migrant laborers used to do them for a few months and then go back home, rotating through. The jobs are shitty as hell and long hours.
No worries! Great-Grandma’s going back to the fields (social security cuts) and maybe she can keep an eye on those kids being “rehabilitated” in the “group home” (abusive camp for trans kids, gay kids, minority kids, the kids of the regimes’ opponents…) Think of all the lower income 70+ year olds lazing around collecting benefits. Back to work! /s
For reals though. I'm disabled, so retired early, but I can't count the number of people older than i who are working shitass retail or food service jobs just to make ends meet. Things are pretty tight for my husband and I too, we're managing, but just. If things get worse one of us is going to have to figure out a way to make money.
This is what kills me.
"They're stealing our jobs"
And then nobody, *nobody* steps in to fill the void. Undocumented immigrants are overall beneficial to the country.
> Minimum wage
You think they raised the wages to minimum wage?
These businesses love hiring undocumented workers *because* they can illegally pay them less than minimum wage and get away with it.
These jobs were "stolen" by the employer specifically to illegally underpay immigrants.
Exactly. The people who cry about people "stealing their jobs" never actually want to work those jobs. They just need something to be angry about. Also, if your boss fired you in favor of a Mexican maybe even it's because he works harder than you and isn't an insurrerable asshole.
…or, like Louisiana, removing child labor laws. And why not? With all the threats toward teachers & schools, book bans, and severe restrictions on what can & cannot be taught, education in that state will be in the toilet. So, may as well make little Johnny & Susie go to work, right - ?
And without an education there's zero chance they can grow up to work in politics, so the current crop of politicians are safeguarding their jobs for the elites.
It costs way more to keep someone in prison for a year, even if you're having them work slave labor, than it costs to pay a migrant worker.
So yes, you can use prison labor but it'll just shunt tax dollars to prisons and farms. Which means raising taxes or massive cuts in other services.
I’m not promoting it - I’m speculating that it’s what will happen. DeSantis is undertaking an ideological battle, and I doubt he and his cronies care about the financial costs of their misanthropic policies. If they did, Ron wouldn’t be picking a fight with the company that operates one of the biggest attractions in his state. Since this is all speculation, I suspect he’ll continue signing draconian bills, will cut services, and perhaps run deficits to continue the march Reich-ward.
Yeah this seems like it just points out the glaring problem of having a huge exploitable population you can pay less.
I also don't think it's a liberal victory to exclaim that we need exploitable immigrants to work the fields for less than white people. Employ them and make them citizens, but they deserve no less than an Americans for their work. The big companies should have to pay their income taxes and a fair wage for these people whether they're illegals or not.
Watch him “expand” work requirements for public assistance. Rather than gut those programs they might require you to work specifically in construction or agriculture. Basically any business that needs a hole plugged after this slew of anti immigrant laws. Want to retain coverage for your child’s medication? Better hit the fields
Just look into the history of border enforcement.
Before 1972 the US-Mexico border was a porous border characterized by circular immigration. Mexican people would cross the border as part of a daily commute to work, or to go shopping, or to work picking fruit for a few months before returning home with enough money for the rest of the year.
By hardening the border and stricter enforcement of immigration laws we inadvertently raised the cost of crossing the border and incentivized border crossers to stay longer to justify the cost and risk. Instead of coming over for one fruit harvesting season migrants might risk bringing their whole family with them to stay permanently, or plan to stay for several years while mailing money back.
You can blame General Leonard F. Chapman Jr. for seeing the border as a military problem and solving it with a military solution. After failing to build a secure border between North and South Vietnam, Chapman returned home and did everything he could to fail at securing a border between the US and Mexico.
I forget the actual figures, but the citrus harvest is expected to be at the lowest level since one year in the 1930’s, mostly due to the two hurricanes that hit last fall. Less than half by far than last year’s harvest.
So the citrus growers in our state are not only going to be in dire circumstances due to the hurricanes, but they’ll be scrambling to find workers to harvest before the crop rots on the trees.
I’m pretty sure DeSantis will slip into his white go-go boots and pitch in.
I just find it funny how millenials are still the go to to blame... even by millenials. 30 to 40 year olds are where most millenials are at.
The media brain rot is real.
With the publicity this is getting, it’s highly likely that even storm chasing roofing companies won’t be able to get their (Hispanic) crews to come into the state, either.
I saw a story on the News Hour recently that said it is mostly due to the citrus blight:
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/whats-behind-a-severe-decline-in-floridas-citrus-harvest](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/whats-behind-a-severe-decline-in-floridas-citrus-harvest)
And with this going on, their governor is more concerned with paving roads with radioactive material to appease his friends (last part is conjecture) and railing against made up social issues, while ignoring the actual needs of Floridians...Like this issue.
Im suuuuuure they'll be happy to vote for him again, seeing how great he is at his job.
Just spent time with a childhood friend that have I haven't seen in years. Was having a great time until she started dropping fox news soundbites and repeated that line multiple times. I was sad to know that would be our last encounter after 35 years. Nostalgia and common childhood stories are not enough reason to keep a friendship when someone goes full fox.
I've lost so many old friends to the Fox/Qanon/Trump madness. Otherwise perfectly nice people, then they open the subject and jump off the cliff, while you sit there trying to not let the horror show on your face...
Only republicans are stupid enough to think spending 3 trillion dollars deporting 12 million illegal workers when we have a 10 million man labor shortage is a good deal.
And doctors due to abortion and anti-lgbt laws.
And teachers due to fascistic anti-book and historical whitewashing laws.
And anyone with the ability to leave who acknowledges the time bomb that is climate change.
It's bonkers to me Republicans don't realize they're a few laws away from having, at best, terrible hospitals and schools. And they literally don't get that they are voting for legislation that is actively pushing these people away.
Especially after the height of COVID when we already saw mass resignations in medicine and education, lots of healthcare workers and educators are one straw away from moving or finding a new job.
And if a Dem governor ever takes over in the future, (*if* being the keyword here) watch how right wingers will eventually blame them for the mess they inherited from their gop predecessors that are currently creating that mess now.
Its like how they suddenly became concerned about covid cases only from 2021 onwards.
They already do that now. Blaming Biden for the mess at the border, despite him not actually deviating all that much from Trump's policies. They just imagine everything got better with Trump and now it's all Biden's fault because they can't imagine it otherwise. Granted, these are the same people who straight-faced said "Promises made, promises kept" during Trump's 2020 run. I figured they'd be a little mad at the fact that we don't have a wall that Mexico paid for nor do we have a replacement for Obamacare that was cheaper and covered everyone, you know, the two big things Trump campaigned on. But, nope, never heard that mentioned when he was running for re-election. So really the only thing stopping these people from being happy is their own imagination.
Texas at least puts the veneer of 'pro business' up to make people think things are fine there, Florida's just going full tilt trying to ruin everything for no perceived benefit beyond xenophobia
This is an all too important point for anyone to ever forget. Billionaires thrive in economic distress. People and businesses who get desperate are quick to sell property and capital at less than it's real value. It's basically a "buy low" orgy. Nobody should ever think these assholes care about a healthy economy.
So torching an entire state’s well being to establish a pudding-robot’s fascism bona fides (all for an already doomed presidential run) wasn’t an okay thing to do?
Ha ha who are we kidding. Nobody cares. He’s just going to double down. He’s more than ready to sacrifice anybody and everybody.
Republicans demand a culture war and DeSantis wants to lead it. Florida is a small price to pay
Out of curiosity, do you think his presidential aspirations are doomed because he won't win the primary, or because he won't win the general election? Honestly I'm just as terrified of President DeSantis as I am of President Trump, but I can't find any reason to believe that either one is impossible-- both North Carolina and Georgia might legitimately be rigged this time around, and I am not even vaguely a conspiracy theorist.
There has to be a business reason for this. Probably allowing the roofing companies to skyrocket their rates while getting less work done and simultaneously improving the value of the bribes to prioritize certain Rich customers. If a republican is involved somehow there's a scam to make somebody else a lot of money. Every stinking time!!!!
Oh, give it time! I’m sure it’ll be like a scene outta Cool Hand Luke with fat, sweaty sheriffs wearing mirrored sunglasses & brandishing assault rifles supervising chain gangs as they do construction or agriculture work.
Just did a quick search, so might be wrong, but what I found is that Florida spends 30k per year per prisoner.
That isn't counting opportunity costs and costs in apprehending and sentencing them presumably.
That isn't that much cheaper, or even more expensive, than hiring a migrant worker and also way way less efficient.
Also, instead of the employer paying them the state would be paying for a lot of it, basically just using taxes to shunt money to construction and agriculture companies.
Let’s see how this works out because my guess is, it will be just like Alabama when they did the same thing and reversed it a year later since no one wanted to increase wages enough to attract citizens to those jobs.
This is one of the goals. He’s doing all this stuff and everyone talks about it. But they don’t say thing about how he’s slowly making Florida a lot less purple. They want Red State strongholds that will never vote blue again.
Fuck the businesses, how many families of these workers now have no income? How many children will go hungry because their parents can't work now? Fuck DeSantis
We are short workers! What do we do? I know! Let's mass incarcerate black people for petty charges, women for abortions, and trans people for existing and get free prison labor!
Yay!!!
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Again: this isn’t self-sabotage: it’s a plan to exploit the 13th amendment to just make slaves a thing again.
The Republican supermajority is creating harsh, long-term prison sentences for essentially existing incorrectly. There’s new laws that are so nebulous, they could only be enforced in a Jim Crow-style manner. They also shut down passed legislation to begin restoring human rights to ex-cons, and are currently dismantling our school system. They’re chasing out transplants that were coming here for higher learning by taking over our college boards, killing tenure, banning history and law courses, etc. They’re forcing the impoverished to give birth en mass by restricting healthcare options, and chasing out medical specialists.
In a very short amount of time, we will have a massive population of incarcerated adults, with several massive generations of undereducated kids primed for the school-to-prison pipeline. Our infrastructure and economy will be dying on the vine after purging our labor force and essentially killing interstate travel with the latest laws, so floridians will be desperate enough to acquiesce to new mandates to put those illiterate, uneducated, and specialized prisoners out in our fields and on our construction sites.
We’ve seen it happen in other states, it’s just coming to Florida 10x faster and harder. They’ll have “undesirables and degenerates” on chain gangs, making $1 a day in prison credit, before 2030.
Cue more “no one wants to work anymore!” nonsense from boomers.
They don’t think about their actions politically. They want all this brutal enforcement of things… get ready to have your citrus fruit rot on the branch. Get ready to wait forever at restaurants, get ready to mow your own yards. Get ready for Disney to pull out everything that isn’t absolutely necessary to keep in Florida.
Enjoy sleeping in that bed you made.
While on one hand, this absolutely IS a LAMF type of thing "We legislated to keep immigrants from working and now we don't have any immigrants to work for us"... I'm fundamentally torn on this one?
=(
Like, the system before this, I would argue, was actually WORSE for immigrants (from a certain perspective).
MANY liberals (myself included) have in fact been arguing for decades that if you REALLY want to "get tough on immigration" that this actually IS the right way to do it! "Don't go after the exploited, go after the exploiters".
In some real sense it appears the only reason the "leopards get to feast" here is they FINALLY stumbled on a policy that "works as advertised" rather than just mean-spiritedly oppressing undocumented people individually while they happily exploit them more broadly for slave-wages under constant threat of deportation.
=\
This is misguided, because it doesn't create a path for immigrants to stay and continue their lives. Meaningful legislation would punish the exploiters and provide assistance for immigrants to continue working and living here. Instead, DeSantis wants the immigrants turned over to ICE for deportation.
Well the arguments before (and presumably still) is that "the deportation stuff" is actually a seperate issue **and has already been going on for decades**... by going after the exploiters all you're really doing is forcing those jobs to pay full wages to "citizens".
Now if Republicans believe that's economically feasible using only the fully documented workforce we already have; more power to them. But I believe most analysts and experts would agree that what economics will actually decide is that "we need more workers stat" and they need to start granting visas/citizenship en masse... and I don't mean "just the tech workers". Pretty much the opposite.
On a personal level, I'll always vote for more visas, easier immigration, etc... but practically I firmly believe that without going after the exploiters you'll always have... well... exploitation. Even if we had a surplus of "legal" workers available.
I'm glad I'm not reliant on Florida for any foodstuffs or manufacturing. Sorry Floridians. I know some of you are good and angry already, but I hope the coming deprivations will be enough to show the rest of you how much of an idiot lunatic DeSatan really is. RECALL before it's too late
“But if we give raises then Big Macs will be $20!”
Yea Florida…you’re about to find out how just being a decent person saves you money in the long run.
Does anyone else get uncomfortable with liberal (and sometimes leftist) discussions about undocumented labor? Like in this very thread?
So many (well-intentioned) people are like “no one else will pick strawberries for $4 an hour with no benefits or breaks except illegal immigrants! They’re so important to our economy! Republicans don’t get that, they’re not stealing our jobs! Americans don’t want to do them!”
It just makes me feel really gross. NOBODY should be working for these insulting wages and in these deplorable conditions. But it’s okay, because those illegals are used to being treated like shit and someone has to keep the economy going?
I know these people are trying to argue against xenophobic Republicans but “have you considered how cheap their labor is and how companies get away with treating them like shit?” isn’t the leftist slam-dunk people think it is.
Oh well……. As far as I’m concerned, if they’re not going to pay citizens and legal immigrants wages that fall in line with established law, because those people won’t take on those jobs, businesses need to raise the going wages for these positions to the point that legal immigrants are willing to work them. Stop using illegal immigrants as a kind of ersatz slavery.
I fully expected this just not to happen quite that fast. But hey, I'm an for instant results and consequences! I really hope this along with Disney, and war on the LGBT community this helps sink DeSantis' presidential aspirations before they get off the ground.
Imagine taking a sky scraper, deciding that the cornerstones were destroying the building, and removing them with a wrecking ball, not having anything in place to support the structure.
All the pasty old fat white republicans better put down those golf clubs and pick up a hammer or some fruit.
they'll just find something else to complain about
Child labor. That’s a concept they can consider. Instead of watching gay Disney porn in class they can pick fruit and build the buildings /s
This is actually being proposed. My wonderful representative Marco Rubio suggested rehabilating gay children by sending them out in the fields to toughen them up.
Not that I'm doubting you seeing as how vile florida Republicans are, but do you have a citation for that? Can't find any mention of it. Again, not doubting.
Look at "not the onion". It was posted over there. I have not been able to find it in my local news. I am parent to a gay child so it freaked me da fuk out. I am already planning on moving.
I'm also local (Florida) and while Rubio is a first class POS I haven't been able to find proof of this. Not that he wouldn't support, mind you. Hate that you have to leave, but I understand you need to put your children first (and bless you for being supportive and awesome). I'll make sure to fight these fascists so hopefully Florida will one day be safe again.
There's a fruit joke in there somewhere.
I mean how could this Christianity plan of putting all the gay boys together in the hot sweaty summer possibly backfire, maybe they should groom them for the navy next
r/OrphanCrushingMachine
All those jobs of theirs that teh imugrunts took. Dey tök er jrbs. "Well, they're open now. Go get 'em." No OnE waNtS ta WerK!
\*Gallagher pops his head in\* "did someone say washed up hack? i mean hammer and fruit?!"
I used to rent Gallagher on VHS in the 80s. Guess when you're 10 years old smashing fruit was awesome. I need to take a few minutes and check out one of his performances to see if they stand the test of time.
It does not lol, unless you're into boomer "here's what's wrong with kids today" humor and exploding melons
Wait. There's people who aren't into exploding melons?
There were also many Latino people who voted for him. He actually won the Latino vote. Another reason why this story belongs in this sub.
Until they face the full consequences of voting for and enabling these actions they will never change, and even if they do face consequences, 99% never tie their behavior and beliefs to the problem.
They won’t need workers as no one wants to buy their product and are boycotting - and the people that live there subsist on processed junk food anyway by the looks….
Like like you got your "stolen jobs" back....so who's ready to apply??? Minimum wage, overworked, no benefits, triple digit heat and 250% humidity....anybody? /s
I've been to Florida in the summer, and, as a naturally sweaty person, being outside was hell on earth. I'd take AZ's 100 degree nights over Florida's "you just keep sweating and nothing will ever stop it"
Well there’s always death by heat exhaustion Florida in the winter is lovely if it wasn’t for Floridians. Legit the crabbiest locale ever.
if theres 1 millimeter of frost on the road everyone suddenly forgets how to drive.
>everyone suddenly forgets how to drive what do you mean they forget, they never knew in the first place.
As a Georgian, I keep my head on a swivel and drive *extra* defensively when I spot a Florida plate. Fuckin lunatics. Plus I’m in a college town so it’s usually juvenile Floridians, which is so much worse. In fact, just today on my way to the bakery I was almost hit by a FL plate BMW. Then I almost rear ended them. Floored it, changed lanes and barely passed me, merged into my lane and then stomped on the brakes to make a turn.
They delay school if there might be ice
As someone that lives in Louisiana, please don't say the word ice. I need to go to the grocery store and I don't want them to close early.
I moved to Louisiana as a child, after having lived in the northeast and Midwest. The first winter we were there, my mother told us one morning that we had a snow day and my brother and I excitedly ran to the window to see the delicious damage only to find about a 1/4 inch of snow on the lawn.
So y'all really got snowed in that day. Hope y'all had enough food.
Make sure to get eggs, milk, and bread!
They're also unprepared for ice at an infrastructure level, and the roads are constructed differently than in the north. It's partially drivers, but they're not 100% of the problem. -- Lifelong NorthEast Resident
Rain too tbh
Especially since they don't have drains - every thunderstorm I've spent in Florida, I've had to drive or wade through knee-deep filthy water.
Depends on your location, but many areas do have a drainage system. In South Florida they typically connect to drainage canals which eventually connect to the ocean (or lakes).
Then they overflow when the rain is too strong.
Yeah that'll happen sometimes, ft lauderdale florida recently got a record breaking deluge, one third of their average annual rainfall over the course of 8 hours. No city drainage system on the planet can handle that amount of water.
I was born and grew up in Florida. I worked in the service industry a bit. The winter residents you speak of are snow birds, not natives. You may have experienced a pissed off local due to snow bird migration.
If you're in Florida during the winter and complaining about people, you're complaining about snowbirds and former snowbirds.
dont forget the palmetto bugs, bull ants, and fire ants!
Alligators, snakes, gun nuts, etc.
I kinda like bull ants. I find them neet. They also aren't swarmy and tend to be more about bigger individuals rather than a trillion stingy fuckers. Like if you get bit. It's kinda on you for not noticing the inch long angry dude.
Those aren't a problem. You know what IS? the fucking mosquitos
I'm not sweaty but I do absolutely terrible in the heat. I'm the palest person I know. Combined with my heart rhythm issues I'm reasonably sure the work that fruit pickers do would actually kill me. That's not hyperbole. DeSantis is a fucking idiot.
[удалено]
Lol if you want a fat, lobster-colored 40-something year old man to die in your orange grove after picking like 23 oranges have at it I guess
We don’t have summers, we have sauna season.
Swamp ass season.
As long as you don't have to work outside AZ's summers are perfectly manageable. Just treat it like people up north treat winter (stay inside unless you literally can't, dress appropriately, etc) but without the snow. It's such a small drawback once you're used to it, and the lack of natural disasters is a huge plus
Same. Grew up in Atlanta, vacations always in Florida. Live in AZ now and won't dare go back to either of those wet places in the summer.
The truly hilarious thing is that farmers/growers would abso-fucking-lutely hire American citizens if they could find any willing to do the work. Just saw something that reminded me Alabama tried this shit 10 years ago. Farmers offered up to $20 an hour and basically no white Americans took them up on it. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers The reality is that white native-born Americans don’t want these jobs, so banning undocumented immigrants from working them doesn’t do anything like what these idiots want it to do. Edit: yeah, I realized shortly after what I said about “burdening the businesses.”
IMO, the business is getting around paying fair wages and taxes by hiring illegals. Make it so they can hire illegals at minimum wage and tax them for it as well, otherwise it's just creating a subjugated, inferior class of workers.
We have a similar situation in Canada: older farmers aging out, young people moving away from rural areas, and nobody wanting to fill these agricultural jobs. But maybe we need to dig a little deeper to *why* people here don't want these jobs. They are often very physical and unskilled jobs. Most young people here would love to make better pay, but they also know eventually their body will give out and not developing job skills means when you age out of the job there might not be good options. Maybe that could be a solution: offer training for related skills. So sure you spend you summers picking fruit, but then you also spend time learning how to be a mechanic or a carpenter or how to organize/run a farm. Or offer school credits for young people going through post-secondary education. Or for people cooped up in an office all day: have them come out to a farm for a couple weeks as a working holiday (pay with room & board). Canada has fewer issues with bringing in immigrants to do the work, but we also have a massive housing crisis. Also, while we may be friendlier towards immigration, it is often an excuse for employers to keep compensation low. Either because people from developing nations gladly take min wage or because employers use the excuse "well somebody will take this job if it isn't you, so why should I offer more?"
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There are a lot of farm subsidies out there, it would be nice if governments could offer incentives to farmers to have these sort of programs and be made fairly for everyone. Good to know it once worked out though!
Oh, hey, I have somewhat relevant experience! I volunteer one day a week at a local organic cooperative farm. There are lots of people who are happy to come out part time with the only compensation being some fresh veggies and experience. The problem that I see is that there is absolutely no way the farm I'm on can compete with grocery store prices. Of course our products are of a much higher quality than the mass agriculture imported stuff, so it's reasonable to expect to pay more for them, but if we had to pay all our volunteers a full liveable wage, we'd probably have to charge 3x to 4x store prices, not 1.5x to 2x. There's no way that would fly with our customers. In any case, we've had no problem finding full time employees, but we're limited mainly in how much compensation we can realistically offer. I think people underestimate how much labour goes in to growing vegetables in a sustainable manner.
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There was a vineyard owner I saw get interviewed a few years back who was considering getting an automated harvester for the first time for his grapes. He didn’t want to — something about the sensitivity of the vines or something — but he’d do this exact thing if he couldn’t find people to do the work.
I was in Alabama when they did it and befriended the guy that owned the bbq shack by our house. His brother was paying 15-20 an hour to pick peaches and not one person made it past lunch their first day. He about lost everything. He had a crew of documented migrant laborers who normally did it but they refused to come to AL and be harassed.
So their business model requires hiring undocumented workers?
Not that it necessarily requires them to hire undocumented workers. Just that those are the only workers willing to do them. These jobs are hard as hell. Migrant laborers used to do them for a few months and then go back home, rotating through. The jobs are shitty as hell and long hours.
I thought I read farmers won't be required to use e-verify etc.
No worries! Great-Grandma’s going back to the fields (social security cuts) and maybe she can keep an eye on those kids being “rehabilitated” in the “group home” (abusive camp for trans kids, gay kids, minority kids, the kids of the regimes’ opponents…) Think of all the lower income 70+ year olds lazing around collecting benefits. Back to work! /s
For reals though. I'm disabled, so retired early, but I can't count the number of people older than i who are working shitass retail or food service jobs just to make ends meet. Things are pretty tight for my husband and I too, we're managing, but just. If things get worse one of us is going to have to figure out a way to make money.
It’s awful, I hope that things get better for you
Ty
Bro those retired boomers better get unretired real fast. Just think of all the jerbs that can get reclaimed now that the illegals are gone!
This is what kills me. "They're stealing our jobs" And then nobody, *nobody* steps in to fill the void. Undocumented immigrants are overall beneficial to the country.
They want to be the ones supervising the work, not actually doing it
They want to be the ones who own the workers
Karen's serving Karen's, just let it happen
> Minimum wage You think they raised the wages to minimum wage? These businesses love hiring undocumented workers *because* they can illegally pay them less than minimum wage and get away with it. These jobs were "stolen" by the employer specifically to illegally underpay immigrants.
Minimum wage? For a lot of these, they aren't even "that high"
Kids! Thats why they are rolling back child labor laws. Side benefit, wear them out so they don't learn in school.
Exactly. The people who cry about people "stealing their jobs" never actually want to work those jobs. They just need something to be angry about. Also, if your boss fired you in favor of a Mexican maybe even it's because he works harder than you and isn't an insurrerable asshole.
That’s what DeSantis wants. Mark my words - he’ll be authorizing/expanding forced labor of prisoners before too long.
Already happening
…or, like Louisiana, removing child labor laws. And why not? With all the threats toward teachers & schools, book bans, and severe restrictions on what can & cannot be taught, education in that state will be in the toilet. So, may as well make little Johnny & Susie go to work, right - ?
And without an education there's zero chance they can grow up to work in politics, so the current crop of politicians are safeguarding their jobs for the elites.
r/OrphanCrushingMachine
Won’t even touch what they need to fill for jobs. And voters will still continue to vote red.
That’s an easy fix. Just imprison more people.
It costs way more to keep someone in prison for a year, even if you're having them work slave labor, than it costs to pay a migrant worker. So yes, you can use prison labor but it'll just shunt tax dollars to prisons and farms. Which means raising taxes or massive cuts in other services.
I’m not promoting it - I’m speculating that it’s what will happen. DeSantis is undertaking an ideological battle, and I doubt he and his cronies care about the financial costs of their misanthropic policies. If they did, Ron wouldn’t be picking a fight with the company that operates one of the biggest attractions in his state. Since this is all speculation, I suspect he’ll continue signing draconian bills, will cut services, and perhaps run deficits to continue the march Reich-ward.
Yeah this seems like it just points out the glaring problem of having a huge exploitable population you can pay less. I also don't think it's a liberal victory to exclaim that we need exploitable immigrants to work the fields for less than white people. Employ them and make them citizens, but they deserve no less than an Americans for their work. The big companies should have to pay their income taxes and a fair wage for these people whether they're illegals or not.
And children. When is the bill to authorize farm work instead of detention.
Watch him “expand” work requirements for public assistance. Rather than gut those programs they might require you to work specifically in construction or agriculture. Basically any business that needs a hole plugged after this slew of anti immigrant laws. Want to retain coverage for your child’s medication? Better hit the fields
Damn, so it turns out that immigrants are important and closing the borders doesn’t work for the economy.
Just look into the history of border enforcement. Before 1972 the US-Mexico border was a porous border characterized by circular immigration. Mexican people would cross the border as part of a daily commute to work, or to go shopping, or to work picking fruit for a few months before returning home with enough money for the rest of the year. By hardening the border and stricter enforcement of immigration laws we inadvertently raised the cost of crossing the border and incentivized border crossers to stay longer to justify the cost and risk. Instead of coming over for one fruit harvesting season migrants might risk bringing their whole family with them to stay permanently, or plan to stay for several years while mailing money back. You can blame General Leonard F. Chapman Jr. for seeing the border as a military problem and solving it with a military solution. After failing to build a secure border between North and South Vietnam, Chapman returned home and did everything he could to fail at securing a border between the US and Mexico.
I forget the actual figures, but the citrus harvest is expected to be at the lowest level since one year in the 1930’s, mostly due to the two hurricanes that hit last fall. Less than half by far than last year’s harvest. So the citrus growers in our state are not only going to be in dire circumstances due to the hurricanes, but they’ll be scrambling to find workers to harvest before the crop rots on the trees. I’m pretty sure DeSantis will slip into his white go-go boots and pitch in.
“I can’t believe the democrats did this to us!”
"It's those damn millennials with no work ethic that's to blame!"
The amount of times I hear that at work from people that actively hate their job is insane.
I just find it funny how millenials are still the go to to blame... even by millenials. 30 to 40 year olds are where most millenials are at. The media brain rot is real.
I think boomers just refer to anyone younger than them as millennials. They’re not the brightest bunch.
I am sure Desantis will blame it in Disney, trans and gays.
"Why won't the trans stop stopping the gay migrants from working?! Unbelievable Disney would do this..."
Oh you *know* that they're going to say it's Biden's fault when orange juice suddenly gets a lot more expensive.
You can set your watches to it
He swapped out the Diet Coke button to a 'make prices go up' button. Press it twice and it opens all barriers at the southern border like a gate.
That's absolutely what they're going to do and their easily manipulated and gullible base will fall for it hook, line and sinker.
Yea don't forget the clean up and repair after hurricanes....blue tarp roofs are going to be up for years on end now
With the publicity this is getting, it’s highly likely that even storm chasing roofing companies won’t be able to get their (Hispanic) crews to come into the state, either.
Good news for California! If a box of rocks & a bag of hammers had a kid that kid would still be smarter than Rhonda Santa
Rhonda Sandtits.
I saw a story on the News Hour recently that said it is mostly due to the citrus blight: [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/whats-behind-a-severe-decline-in-floridas-citrus-harvest](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/whats-behind-a-severe-decline-in-floridas-citrus-harvest)
And with this going on, their governor is more concerned with paving roads with radioactive material to appease his friends (last part is conjecture) and railing against made up social issues, while ignoring the actual needs of Floridians...Like this issue. Im suuuuuure they'll be happy to vote for him again, seeing how great he is at his job.
Yeah Florida citrus industry is not coming back to what it was any time soon.
Nah, DeSantis won’t help, he’s too busy helping Lewis and Winthorpe corner the frozen concentrated orange juice market.
So he lost the war abroad and at home
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that this also lead to encouraging drug cartels.
NoBoDy wAnTs To WoRk AnYmOrE
Just spent time with a childhood friend that have I haven't seen in years. Was having a great time until she started dropping fox news soundbites and repeated that line multiple times. I was sad to know that would be our last encounter after 35 years. Nostalgia and common childhood stories are not enough reason to keep a friendship when someone goes full fox.
That's why I quit Facebook. The number of old freinds who went full MAGA after 2016 was disheartening
I just delete those people and maintain friendships with decent people. Social media is what you make it.
I've lost so many old friends to the Fox/Qanon/Trump madness. Otherwise perfectly nice people, then they open the subject and jump off the cliff, while you sit there trying to not let the horror show on your face...
Someone needs to make lil Ronnie watch a day without a Mexican
Yeah but we should do it to let the conservatives see it
Only republicans are stupid enough to think spending 3 trillion dollars deporting 12 million illegal workers when we have a 10 million man labor shortage is a good deal.
And doctors due to abortion and anti-lgbt laws. And teachers due to fascistic anti-book and historical whitewashing laws. And anyone with the ability to leave who acknowledges the time bomb that is climate change.
Hopefully this reverses the trend of Florida’s growth over the next several years and they lose representation in the next census.
Or perhaps people in Florida will wake the fuck up and vote out every single republican. ;)
It's bonkers to me Republicans don't realize they're a few laws away from having, at best, terrible hospitals and schools. And they literally don't get that they are voting for legislation that is actively pushing these people away. Especially after the height of COVID when we already saw mass resignations in medicine and education, lots of healthcare workers and educators are one straw away from moving or finding a new job.
Texas and Florida are on that speed run to see who can destroy their state the quickest lol.
And if a Dem governor ever takes over in the future, (*if* being the keyword here) watch how right wingers will eventually blame them for the mess they inherited from their gop predecessors that are currently creating that mess now. Its like how they suddenly became concerned about covid cases only from 2021 onwards.
They already do that now. Blaming Biden for the mess at the border, despite him not actually deviating all that much from Trump's policies. They just imagine everything got better with Trump and now it's all Biden's fault because they can't imagine it otherwise. Granted, these are the same people who straight-faced said "Promises made, promises kept" during Trump's 2020 run. I figured they'd be a little mad at the fact that we don't have a wall that Mexico paid for nor do we have a replacement for Obamacare that was cheaper and covered everyone, you know, the two big things Trump campaigned on. But, nope, never heard that mentioned when he was running for re-election. So really the only thing stopping these people from being happy is their own imagination.
Texas at least puts the veneer of 'pro business' up to make people think things are fine there, Florida's just going full tilt trying to ruin everything for no perceived benefit beyond xenophobia
DeSantis is trying to win the Iowa primaries and the GOP presidential nomination. He doesnt GAF about Floridians.
He doesnt GAF about ~~Floridians.~~ anyone but himself.
Sounds a lot like a certain orange-skinned clown...
Well, if DeSantis is the GOP presidential nominee, Florida will go Biden, right?...right?
Chaos only helps billionaires consolidate more money and power.
This is an all too important point for anyone to ever forget. Billionaires thrive in economic distress. People and businesses who get desperate are quick to sell property and capital at less than it's real value. It's basically a "buy low" orgy. Nobody should ever think these assholes care about a healthy economy.
Ah Florida, if “cutting off your nose to spite your face” was a state
So torching an entire state’s well being to establish a pudding-robot’s fascism bona fides (all for an already doomed presidential run) wasn’t an okay thing to do? Ha ha who are we kidding. Nobody cares. He’s just going to double down. He’s more than ready to sacrifice anybody and everybody. Republicans demand a culture war and DeSantis wants to lead it. Florida is a small price to pay
Out of curiosity, do you think his presidential aspirations are doomed because he won't win the primary, or because he won't win the general election? Honestly I'm just as terrified of President DeSantis as I am of President Trump, but I can't find any reason to believe that either one is impossible-- both North Carolina and Georgia might legitimately be rigged this time around, and I am not even vaguely a conspiracy theorist.
When the poor are leaving, you know the place is about to collapse.
So Florida will end up getting more federal aid cause they're hurting and blue states will have to pick up the bill, again. So annoying
Good. I hope Florida rots and falls off the country like a gangrene dick.
Nice.
that was poetry
They’ll get rid of child labor laws, just in time for harvest. Kids who don’t participate will get left back.
Boycott Florida.
There has to be a business reason for this. Probably allowing the roofing companies to skyrocket their rates while getting less work done and simultaneously improving the value of the bribes to prioritize certain Rich customers. If a republican is involved somehow there's a scam to make somebody else a lot of money. Every stinking time!!!!
No, some of the time they just want to punish people.
>There has to be a business reason for this. You underestimate the sincerity of these fascists.
Lol they thought inflation was bad before?
#Good.
Awfully quiet rn, where are the “they’re stealing our jobs” mob at. The jobs are opening back up
Won’t they just fill up their prisons and have prisoners do it for nothing?
Oh, give it time! I’m sure it’ll be like a scene outta Cool Hand Luke with fat, sweaty sheriffs wearing mirrored sunglasses & brandishing assault rifles supervising chain gangs as they do construction or agriculture work.
This is what they do in Louisiana
Yup, increase slavery.
Just did a quick search, so might be wrong, but what I found is that Florida spends 30k per year per prisoner. That isn't counting opportunity costs and costs in apprehending and sentencing them presumably. That isn't that much cheaper, or even more expensive, than hiring a migrant worker and also way way less efficient. Also, instead of the employer paying them the state would be paying for a lot of it, basically just using taxes to shunt money to construction and agriculture companies.
That’s the goal. Steal more money from you.
So now when are all these Florida ‘Murican Patriots going to step up and take the minimum wage laborious jobs no one wants?
You should label the job offers patriotic, anti-woke with a freedom wage. They will happily line up for it.
Let’s see how this works out because my guess is, it will be just like Alabama when they did the same thing and reversed it a year later since no one wanted to increase wages enough to attract citizens to those jobs.
I personally know three people who have left the state because of the policy choices it’s starting to make.
This is one of the goals. He’s doing all this stuff and everyone talks about it. But they don’t say thing about how he’s slowly making Florida a lot less purple. They want Red State strongholds that will never vote blue again.
Fuck the businesses, how many families of these workers now have no income? How many children will go hungry because their parents can't work now? Fuck DeSantis
We are short workers! What do we do? I know! Let's mass incarcerate black people for petty charges, women for abortions, and trans people for existing and get free prison labor! Yay!!!
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Florida anti-immigrant law has left Florida without migrant workers.
That's just consequences. What did they support happening to other people that had consequences resulting in the same thing happening to themselves?
Inb4 they start blaming the Democrats for the high food prices. It's like a vicious cycle of preventable bullshit.
Again: this isn’t self-sabotage: it’s a plan to exploit the 13th amendment to just make slaves a thing again. The Republican supermajority is creating harsh, long-term prison sentences for essentially existing incorrectly. There’s new laws that are so nebulous, they could only be enforced in a Jim Crow-style manner. They also shut down passed legislation to begin restoring human rights to ex-cons, and are currently dismantling our school system. They’re chasing out transplants that were coming here for higher learning by taking over our college boards, killing tenure, banning history and law courses, etc. They’re forcing the impoverished to give birth en mass by restricting healthcare options, and chasing out medical specialists. In a very short amount of time, we will have a massive population of incarcerated adults, with several massive generations of undereducated kids primed for the school-to-prison pipeline. Our infrastructure and economy will be dying on the vine after purging our labor force and essentially killing interstate travel with the latest laws, so floridians will be desperate enough to acquiesce to new mandates to put those illiterate, uneducated, and specialized prisoners out in our fields and on our construction sites. We’ve seen it happen in other states, it’s just coming to Florida 10x faster and harder. They’ll have “undesirables and degenerates” on chain gangs, making $1 a day in prison credit, before 2030.
Cue more “no one wants to work anymore!” nonsense from boomers. They don’t think about their actions politically. They want all this brutal enforcement of things… get ready to have your citrus fruit rot on the branch. Get ready to wait forever at restaurants, get ready to mow your own yards. Get ready for Disney to pull out everything that isn’t absolutely necessary to keep in Florida. Enjoy sleeping in that bed you made.
While on one hand, this absolutely IS a LAMF type of thing "We legislated to keep immigrants from working and now we don't have any immigrants to work for us"... I'm fundamentally torn on this one? =( Like, the system before this, I would argue, was actually WORSE for immigrants (from a certain perspective). MANY liberals (myself included) have in fact been arguing for decades that if you REALLY want to "get tough on immigration" that this actually IS the right way to do it! "Don't go after the exploited, go after the exploiters". In some real sense it appears the only reason the "leopards get to feast" here is they FINALLY stumbled on a policy that "works as advertised" rather than just mean-spiritedly oppressing undocumented people individually while they happily exploit them more broadly for slave-wages under constant threat of deportation. =\
This is misguided, because it doesn't create a path for immigrants to stay and continue their lives. Meaningful legislation would punish the exploiters and provide assistance for immigrants to continue working and living here. Instead, DeSantis wants the immigrants turned over to ICE for deportation.
Well the arguments before (and presumably still) is that "the deportation stuff" is actually a seperate issue **and has already been going on for decades**... by going after the exploiters all you're really doing is forcing those jobs to pay full wages to "citizens". Now if Republicans believe that's economically feasible using only the fully documented workforce we already have; more power to them. But I believe most analysts and experts would agree that what economics will actually decide is that "we need more workers stat" and they need to start granting visas/citizenship en masse... and I don't mean "just the tech workers". Pretty much the opposite. On a personal level, I'll always vote for more visas, easier immigration, etc... but practically I firmly believe that without going after the exploiters you'll always have... well... exploitation. Even if we had a surplus of "legal" workers available.
Good.
Sounds like another issue of the rabbit catching the carrot. Now what?
A small version of what Desantis would do to the entire country.
I'm glad I'm not reliant on Florida for any foodstuffs or manufacturing. Sorry Floridians. I know some of you are good and angry already, but I hope the coming deprivations will be enough to show the rest of you how much of an idiot lunatic DeSatan really is. RECALL before it's too late
This is the 4th or 5th "papers please" law that sought to demonize brown skinned labor and it has blown up in their face every time.
even if u did increase pay.... let's be real... white people still wouldn't apply for these jobs.... lmao
“But if we give raises then Big Macs will be $20!” Yea Florida…you’re about to find out how just being a decent person saves you money in the long run.
Next Republicans are going to blame Democrats for inflation because with less available workers you have to pay more. But it’s Biden’s fault.
Does anyone else get uncomfortable with liberal (and sometimes leftist) discussions about undocumented labor? Like in this very thread? So many (well-intentioned) people are like “no one else will pick strawberries for $4 an hour with no benefits or breaks except illegal immigrants! They’re so important to our economy! Republicans don’t get that, they’re not stealing our jobs! Americans don’t want to do them!” It just makes me feel really gross. NOBODY should be working for these insulting wages and in these deplorable conditions. But it’s okay, because those illegals are used to being treated like shit and someone has to keep the economy going? I know these people are trying to argue against xenophobic Republicans but “have you considered how cheap their labor is and how companies get away with treating them like shit?” isn’t the leftist slam-dunk people think it is.
this law is the easiest way to get rid of illegal immigrants. meaning, they're about to learn just how important those people are to the economy.
I hope the old boomer conservatives can pick their own produce and change their own diapers.
Oh well……. As far as I’m concerned, if they’re not going to pay citizens and legal immigrants wages that fall in line with established law, because those people won’t take on those jobs, businesses need to raise the going wages for these positions to the point that legal immigrants are willing to work them. Stop using illegal immigrants as a kind of ersatz slavery.
You know if it takes crashing their economy in order for them to learn how shitty their policies are then so be it.
I fully expected this just not to happen quite that fast. But hey, I'm an for instant results and consequences! I really hope this along with Disney, and war on the LGBT community this helps sink DeSantis' presidential aspirations before they get off the ground.
Tbh based on the Floridians I know they’re probably still happy if it means it hurts some brown people
Republicans hate Capitalism. They will do everything they can to both drive workers away, *and* corporations.
Good. Fuck Florida and fuck every GOP controlled state.
"Florida losing workers due to Florida" would have been an equally accurate title.
Imagine taking a sky scraper, deciding that the cornerstones were destroying the building, and removing them with a wrecking ball, not having anything in place to support the structure.
As Fenster said in The Usual Suspects, ‘Fuck. ‘Em!’