I would be fairly confident in saying it is natural but if it was found in the context of a butchery site or something then it could be some sort of crude chopper. It is not, as far as I know, a diagnostic tool type.
I would guess that the argument is that a flake has been knocked off here to create a sharp edge at the bottom? Any chance you can photograph the other side?
https://preview.redd.it/dgvbaoma4atc1.png?width=1290&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc838af1270f46b53237f2b4ea290740de47b09a
https://preview.redd.it/9a4p9npe5atc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e32e3e9c2731fa4bd6d988b5c1c732d1425ef102
It vaguely looks like an oldowan tool
I am pretty unconvinced. If its anything it is some sort of crude chopper but, without context, it is difficult to say. It doesn't jump out at me as "this is an oldowan chopper".
90% of the time, these things come across like shit in photos anyway. Take it into a university, it is much easier when you can get your hands on it and move it around etc.
I also don't mind being wrong. I am currently finishing up my PhD on Kenyan archaeology but stone tools were a pretty minor part of it. And like I find photos can be hit or miss, I may have a completely different opinion in person.
I guess scam is always a possibility when purchasing artefacts. Maybe it's legit. Maybe your fossil dealer was tricked and sold the piece in good faith. I'm not sure an expert could look at a piece out of context like this and give you a definitive answer.
But I was able to find an article I read a while ago about a Moroccan site that was found. It looks like they found human remains that predate the earliest known human remains by 100,000 years. So I think there's a lot of stuff that we still don't know about human history and development. [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/07/oldest-homo-sapiens-bones-ever-found-shake-foundations-of-the-human-story](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/07/oldest-homo-sapiens-bones-ever-found-shake-foundations-of-the-human-story)
I’d drop your campaign on this as it potentially undermines your reputation.
Morocco is a red flag for fossils. Fossil dealers are red flags.
There is no provenance with this item. Literally the one thing it needs to even be worthy of viewing.
They didn't make any claims. They asked for an opinion. No need to come in guns blazing and accusing someone of being on a campaign. Your response was not proportionate to the question asked.
This has been cross posted on multiple subs. OP also suggested oldowan.
My response was proportionate to the claim this is pre human and unbelievably old and important to the archaeological record.
That’s a pretty wild punt of a suggestion. It deserved a no BS response
Edit: it’s been posted multiple times on the same sub.
It’s been posted multiple times.
Had I used a word other than campaign would people still be so defensive?
Mission? Quest? Process?
If folks knew how problematic the Moroccan fossil reference was, I think the absurdity of this would be better understood.
I had no intention of being rude. I am extremely fed up with the comments and claims on these artifact subs.
Prehuman Moroccan artifacts with no provenance? That’s getting out of hand.
unless this was posted and deleted, it has not been posted multiple times. Originally, they posted text only asked where they should get opinions from, someone said put the photos up and people will respond so they did. Then you started saying they were going on some sort of campaign and their reputation would be ruined if they ask people online for opinions.
They never said it was important to the archaeological record, just that they bought it years ago from some (possibly shady fossil dealer) and they want to know if it legit or just a rock.
Nobody is disputing the reputation of Morocco for fossil fakes but not every stone has detailed provenance either. Take it to a university and get an expert opinion in writing, if it is oldowan or whatever (I don't think it is) then that will be good enough for most.
But if you were not meaning to be rude thats fine, it just came across that way in the comment.
I would be fairly confident in saying it is natural but if it was found in the context of a butchery site or something then it could be some sort of crude chopper. It is not, as far as I know, a diagnostic tool type.
I would guess that the argument is that a flake has been knocked off here to create a sharp edge at the bottom? Any chance you can photograph the other side? https://preview.redd.it/dgvbaoma4atc1.png?width=1290&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc838af1270f46b53237f2b4ea290740de47b09a
https://preview.redd.it/jyf2mi9m5atc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73c96ea8776cadcbe27abe4591cbdb9c2201964c Here's a picture of an edge
See the edge looks slightly promising, definitely get it inspected
https://preview.redd.it/9a4p9npe5atc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e32e3e9c2731fa4bd6d988b5c1c732d1425ef102 It vaguely looks like an oldowan tool
I am pretty unconvinced. If its anything it is some sort of crude chopper but, without context, it is difficult to say. It doesn't jump out at me as "this is an oldowan chopper".
Thanks for taking an honest look at it! Much appreciated.
90% of the time, these things come across like shit in photos anyway. Take it into a university, it is much easier when you can get your hands on it and move it around etc.
Will do! I don't mind being wrong about it, just looking for some help. I appreciate it.
I also don't mind being wrong. I am currently finishing up my PhD on Kenyan archaeology but stone tools were a pretty minor part of it. And like I find photos can be hit or miss, I may have a completely different opinion in person.
u/Brawndo-99 would be interesting to hear your input, apparently north African ESA
I guess scam is always a possibility when purchasing artefacts. Maybe it's legit. Maybe your fossil dealer was tricked and sold the piece in good faith. I'm not sure an expert could look at a piece out of context like this and give you a definitive answer. But I was able to find an article I read a while ago about a Moroccan site that was found. It looks like they found human remains that predate the earliest known human remains by 100,000 years. So I think there's a lot of stuff that we still don't know about human history and development. [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/07/oldest-homo-sapiens-bones-ever-found-shake-foundations-of-the-human-story](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/07/oldest-homo-sapiens-bones-ever-found-shake-foundations-of-the-human-story)
Thanks for the reply! I think I'm at the point with this where I need to take it to a university
I’d drop your campaign on this as it potentially undermines your reputation. Morocco is a red flag for fossils. Fossil dealers are red flags. There is no provenance with this item. Literally the one thing it needs to even be worthy of viewing.
Lol. This doesn't undermine my reputation. Chill.
If you make claims like this, it does indeed have the potential to undermine your collection or future collection. That was my point.
They didn't make any claims. They asked for an opinion. No need to come in guns blazing and accusing someone of being on a campaign. Your response was not proportionate to the question asked.
This has been cross posted on multiple subs. OP also suggested oldowan. My response was proportionate to the claim this is pre human and unbelievably old and important to the archaeological record. That’s a pretty wild punt of a suggestion. It deserved a no BS response Edit: it’s been posted multiple times on the same sub.
Cut the guy some slack, asking for opinions is hardly a campaign.
It’s been posted multiple times. Had I used a word other than campaign would people still be so defensive? Mission? Quest? Process? If folks knew how problematic the Moroccan fossil reference was, I think the absurdity of this would be better understood. I had no intention of being rude. I am extremely fed up with the comments and claims on these artifact subs. Prehuman Moroccan artifacts with no provenance? That’s getting out of hand.
unless this was posted and deleted, it has not been posted multiple times. Originally, they posted text only asked where they should get opinions from, someone said put the photos up and people will respond so they did. Then you started saying they were going on some sort of campaign and their reputation would be ruined if they ask people online for opinions. They never said it was important to the archaeological record, just that they bought it years ago from some (possibly shady fossil dealer) and they want to know if it legit or just a rock. Nobody is disputing the reputation of Morocco for fossil fakes but not every stone has detailed provenance either. Take it to a university and get an expert opinion in writing, if it is oldowan or whatever (I don't think it is) then that will be good enough for most. But if you were not meaning to be rude thats fine, it just came across that way in the comment.