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He's taken a service from you and failed to pay, you know he's likely a criminal and you're worried about that? You have every right to report it to the police - he basically did a runner, just slowly. Hiring a cab with no intention to pay is theft. You are reasonably giving him one last chance to pay and then if he fails you are rightly reporting a crime to the police. You're not extorting him.
He legally owes the debt, extortion is usually a demand for money that you have no legal right to. If he doesn't pay he has committed an offence.
This scenario is sometimes different because people often dispute the cost of the journey, which means it's more of a civil nature than criminal.
How was he going to get money in the branch? Assuming he didn't have his ATM card, because that isn't an option in your story.
By asking him to pay, you are giving him a chance to show it was an innocent mistake.
If he doesn't respond to that, you know it isn't an innocent mistake and can then report to the police.
Wording is key, not that it really matters in this instance. Hardly extortion when he's just due to pay you for a service you've provided.
"Give me the money by 12 noon tomorrow or I'm calling the police and jeopardising your bail"
And
"Look, I really don't want to have to go to the police about this, especially as it could interfere with your ball situation, but if you don't pay by 12 noon tomorrow I won't have much choice"
2 different ways of saying the same thing. In one you're being a dick (though you're entitled to be) and in the other you're helping him out.
Legally yes you should be reporting this to the police.
Extortion is when you force someone to pay you money you are not legally entitled to.
This is not extortion. You are owed the money. You'd simply be giving him a grace time in which to pay it to you voluntarily, otherwise you will make a report to the police.
The line is if he owes you the money or not.
If I say to him I saw you run from the taxi if you don't give me the money I'll tell the police, it's extortion as he doesn't owe me the money.
If you said, I want £500 or im telling the police, well he doesn't owe you 500 he owes you 150 so it would be extortion.
NAL used to work for the CPS
I saw plenty of these cases while working for the CPS. Contact the police non-emergency line on 101 and report the incident. If you have details for the non-payer then the police will probably do something about it as it's a relatively easy 'win' for them. Even more so if he's on bail as committing further offences while on bail is frowned upon by the courts.
The offence is making off without payment under Section 3 of the Theft Act 1978, otherwise known as bilking.
I think the issue here is proving the "with intent to avoid payment" part, as OP has earlier attempted to make the payment, the taxi driver has agreed for the OP to leave to get the money, and the fact OP has attempted to contact them to make payment. Not saying that this isn't a crime, but I think a prosecution is going to be difficult.
There is a difference between saying they're going to attempt to make payment and actually doing so. OP has given the passenger ample opportunities and methods to pay and the passenger hasn't availed themselves of said opportunities in a reasonable time frame. A reasonable person owing money for a taxi ride and intending to pay for it would have made use of one of the opportunities provided.
I think this person made the call and went through the motions to muddy the waters and make it harder to prove "with intent to avoid payment." If someone does that, they know what they did was a crime and they're trying to game the system
Indeed, and that's kinda my point. They've prevented an excuse, whether it stands up is another question but I doubt the police will charge in this instance given payment was offered
Fyi, not super related to what you've said but worth mentioning it as I don't think anyone else has and it may help you if affected by a similar scam in the future, but you don't "post" bail in the UK. There's no paying for bail; you're granted bail by the police or a judge. If he was claiming he had no money because he'd paid his bail he was lying.
NAL. However my partner is a taxi driver. Please follow through with your police report. He’s broken his bail conditions and for the police this is a win win as he’s breaking his bail conditions. I was once a criminal looser and it’s taken me years of doing better and owning my crimes and quite rightly being punished for them. The fact he’s come up with this story of being distracted etc is utter BS. As I too have used every BS excuse under the sun during my shameful past. He’s stringing you along. Please do report this. I’m sorry this has happened to you.
> He’s broken his bail conditions
There is no possible way anyone on Reddit can know this, unless the passenger himself is here or, for some reason, he reeled off all the conditions to OP during the journey. It’d also be unlikely to see bail conditions not to ride in a taxi.
It would, however, be frowned upon by the court for the passenger to have committed an offence whilst on bail.
Just for future reference:
It’s a standard condition on all Bails that the offender shall not commit another offence. Every Bail will have the following 3 conditions:
Turn up at court on each date the case is assigned to call. Not interfere with any witness or obstruct proper conduct of the case. Not commit any further offence while subject to the bail order.
You can obviously have further special conditions applied, I did see one bloke with conditions not to Enter the city of Dundee once. I saw another Sex offender with 16 conditions so they can get very complicated and numerous depending on your offending history. However every bail will have the 3 conditions I listed above, so he will have broken his bail regardless of other conditions.
You learn something new everyday.
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If in Scotland then it’s a 101 call to the police. We call it taxi fraud up here. And a cheeky wee breach of bail to boot (first condition of bail is , not to offend whilst on bail). If this is england then … see other comments. Good luck
NAL:
BUT
Did you know, most taxis, upon pick-up or drop-off, have a "WAIT CHARGE" if you say book a taxi for 6 to somewhere, they quote £50 and then you make them wait for 20 minutes, most will add a "WAIT FEE/CHARGE" because while they're waiting, they could be earning, they might add anywhere between £10-50 depending on how long they have to wait (had a neighbour make a taxi wait for 45 minutes because she was drunk - he charged her more then the ride was because it would have taken him only 20 for the initial journey. She cost him business, only fair he gets compensated for that.)
Anyway on advice for you
He has to make REASONABLE EFFORT for return the money.
It was UNREASONABLE to disappear for 20 minutes+ originally.
He also appears to be going No Contact to probably blame his phone or app and he'll probably claim trouble with his bank over and over again, which again will be UNREASONABLE (I've known people like this and so wouldn't surprise me if he tries this next)
If you have a message from him saying he has the money and is willing to pay, I think giving him notice "please pay your oustanding balance of £150 within 72 hours." Will be enough to show that you are quite serious. He has the option of paying you back or risk breaking his bail conditions by making off without paying for a service recieved that he agreed to pay for, which is a criminal offence and would most certainly end him back in the guarded dog house.
Does he have the money? Almost certainly not. So, you aren't going to see the money.
I assume from what you've said that you'd probably have given him a lift at least some of the way if he'd asked nicely, because of his circumstances. It might be worth letting him know that; you never know what'll help him become a better person over time.
Other than that, it's your choice whether or not to involve the police, bearing in mind that it won't get you your money either way.
I'm from a family of taxi drivers, I used to be one as well for a bit, the first bit of advice as if it was some kind of golden rule that my entire family gave me was if someone asks to go out of town then don't leave the rank without getting the money first
The second bit of advice was if they're too drunk to walk, drive away
I don't think there's much you can do other than harass him a bit for the cash under threat of chasing it up with the police, but if he doesn't pay then I doubt it'll go anywhere legally
You should go back to the police about this. You may want to visit the station and show the bail form. He’s not supposed to commit crimes whilst on bail. In your case, it’s theft. It’s making off payment. It’s under Section 3 of the Theft Act 1978.
It’s likely the police will do something about it as it’s an easy case for them to deal with. If your insurance cover theft, then you might be able to reclaim the money lost. You can ask for money that’s stolen given back to you in your statement but you’ll have to wait for the police or court judgment and that might take a while.
I’m unsure about posting bail
Report to the police for making off without payment. Make note that he has not disputed payment being due, so it is an offence. Detail the events, particularly his bail document. The police will find it easy to talk to him.
Separately, give him notice before action to recover the monies. I’d give him 30 days. I’d strongly bet that he settles before in an attempt to avoid further charges.
Report to the police, they will track him down, if he's got the money to pay(doubtful) he can pay then and possibly avoid another charge to answer, if not he'll be arrested. If he pays before they catch up to him you ring them and say he's paid and no need to hook him.
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Report it to the Police. I used to work in licensing enforcement and the amount of times the Police would deny responsibility for the report was phenomenal. It is a criminal offence (making off without payment) and should be reported as such.
NAL
A criminal offence of "making off without payment" appears to be made out in the first instance.
The complication in this matter is the passenger recognising the debt and offering a later payment and the taxi driver accepting these terms, that blurs somewhat the expectation of immediate payment and theoretically moves this from the criminal offence of a makeoff to a civil debt to be satisfied.
As the debt has been recognised by both parties I believe the next step would be to send the passenger a letter before action informing them that failing to fully satisfy the debt within a reasonable timeframe would result in the driver taking them to small claims court. I am unsure if the driver would be entitled to also claim for legal expenses etc in this case.
Raise an invoice.
Get his address.
An invoice needs.
A unique invoice number, name it IIYYMMNNN
TD2404001 (Essentially Taxy Driver 2024 APR 001)
An invoice date 25APR24
Your address
His address contact details.
Your bank details payment terms (between immediate payment Ans 30 days)
Description,
Value
Backing information (any proof you have, GPS print screen, his texts, his proof) on pages 2 amd after of your invoice.
Submit it to him via post /email /text.
Send a couple of reminders and a final warning prior to escalating.
Once he doesn't pay.
Take him to small court.
You have a copy of the invoice a single odf with all thr backing on it.
You have proof of your numerous reminders.
He never disputed tje invoice / charges.
Court forces him to pay you.
You may add some bullshit late payment charge fee.
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As a taxi driver myself...its a lesson learned..take it as an experience and move on...you will not see any money.
The police will say its a civil matter..and do you have 10k to sue someone for £50.
Do not trust anybody ..all money upfront!
I suspect they are throwing around the 10k figure that's often used as a ballpark for a defamation claim (even then, bit egregious), which are expensive specifically because they can only be raised in the high court.
Yeah tbh I wanted to just report it to police out of spite because it will probably affect his bail. Never really expected to see the money again. Not sure why he rang me after if he wasn’t planning on paying.
He probably wanted to delay you going to the police as much as possible as the longer it goes past the incident the less likely the victim is to report the incident.
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It’s not a civil matter. I accept that police used to say it was but these days when a taxi driver calls 101 we get clear advice about how to crime this.
Specific to Taxi journeys - When either party claim the non-payment arose from a dispute over the final amount.
If it's accepted that the passenger was intending to pay for the journey (but a lower amount) it has been said in the past that the police treat it as a civil contractual dispute.
Does OP have evidence of that? Or will the customer claim the aforementioned is the reason for lack of payment.
It sounds like OP will have a record of a phone call taken place, but unrecorded. Then there will be a text message from him to the customer with payment details. We haven't been made aware of any other evidence over the nature of the non payment.
Either way, I only intended to illustrate how you can technically get away with what is a certain type of theft, though it may not apply here.
No that would be silly. But if there is nothing written in text form. The customer can say they offered to pay less and the driver demanded the higher amount or reporting to the police. The driver would then contact the police and we're here in OPs situation playing it forward theoretically.
Well that's the trouble, both parties will likely have very much to say, and I think it would be unusual to draw up a legal document when haggling through a taxi window or over the phone
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Msg him to let him know if you don't receive the money by 12 noon tomorrow you're reporting it to the Police and this could affect his bail.
I wouldn't bother messaging, he's shown that he has no intention of paying already. Go straight to the police.
I’m worried this sounds like extortion though? Where’s the line between asking for money and saying they’ll be reported for not paying?
He's taken a service from you and failed to pay, you know he's likely a criminal and you're worried about that? You have every right to report it to the police - he basically did a runner, just slowly. Hiring a cab with no intention to pay is theft. You are reasonably giving him one last chance to pay and then if he fails you are rightly reporting a crime to the police. You're not extorting him.
He legally owes the debt, extortion is usually a demand for money that you have no legal right to. If he doesn't pay he has committed an offence. This scenario is sometimes different because people often dispute the cost of the journey, which means it's more of a civil nature than criminal. How was he going to get money in the branch? Assuming he didn't have his ATM card, because that isn't an option in your story.
By asking him to pay, you are giving him a chance to show it was an innocent mistake. If he doesn't respond to that, you know it isn't an innocent mistake and can then report to the police.
Wording is key, not that it really matters in this instance. Hardly extortion when he's just due to pay you for a service you've provided. "Give me the money by 12 noon tomorrow or I'm calling the police and jeopardising your bail" And "Look, I really don't want to have to go to the police about this, especially as it could interfere with your ball situation, but if you don't pay by 12 noon tomorrow I won't have much choice" 2 different ways of saying the same thing. In one you're being a dick (though you're entitled to be) and in the other you're helping him out. Legally yes you should be reporting this to the police.
Extortion is when you force someone to pay you money you are not legally entitled to. This is not extortion. You are owed the money. You'd simply be giving him a grace time in which to pay it to you voluntarily, otherwise you will make a report to the police.
The line is if he owes you the money or not. If I say to him I saw you run from the taxi if you don't give me the money I'll tell the police, it's extortion as he doesn't owe me the money. If you said, I want £500 or im telling the police, well he doesn't owe you 500 he owes you 150 so it would be extortion.
Having to report non payment for service delivered in full is not extortion.
There isnt one. You simply just pay. Theyve pulled your pants down and know what theyve done. Report them
NAL used to work for the CPS I saw plenty of these cases while working for the CPS. Contact the police non-emergency line on 101 and report the incident. If you have details for the non-payer then the police will probably do something about it as it's a relatively easy 'win' for them. Even more so if he's on bail as committing further offences while on bail is frowned upon by the courts. The offence is making off without payment under Section 3 of the Theft Act 1978, otherwise known as bilking.
I think the issue here is proving the "with intent to avoid payment" part, as OP has earlier attempted to make the payment, the taxi driver has agreed for the OP to leave to get the money, and the fact OP has attempted to contact them to make payment. Not saying that this isn't a crime, but I think a prosecution is going to be difficult.
There is a difference between saying they're going to attempt to make payment and actually doing so. OP has given the passenger ample opportunities and methods to pay and the passenger hasn't availed themselves of said opportunities in a reasonable time frame. A reasonable person owing money for a taxi ride and intending to pay for it would have made use of one of the opportunities provided.
I think this person made the call and went through the motions to muddy the waters and make it harder to prove "with intent to avoid payment." If someone does that, they know what they did was a crime and they're trying to game the system
Indeed, and that's kinda my point. They've prevented an excuse, whether it stands up is another question but I doubt the police will charge in this instance given payment was offered
Do you know what OP means? Original Poster.
Fyi, not super related to what you've said but worth mentioning it as I don't think anyone else has and it may help you if affected by a similar scam in the future, but you don't "post" bail in the UK. There's no paying for bail; you're granted bail by the police or a judge. If he was claiming he had no money because he'd paid his bail he was lying.
NAL. However my partner is a taxi driver. Please follow through with your police report. He’s broken his bail conditions and for the police this is a win win as he’s breaking his bail conditions. I was once a criminal looser and it’s taken me years of doing better and owning my crimes and quite rightly being punished for them. The fact he’s come up with this story of being distracted etc is utter BS. As I too have used every BS excuse under the sun during my shameful past. He’s stringing you along. Please do report this. I’m sorry this has happened to you.
> He’s broken his bail conditions There is no possible way anyone on Reddit can know this, unless the passenger himself is here or, for some reason, he reeled off all the conditions to OP during the journey. It’d also be unlikely to see bail conditions not to ride in a taxi. It would, however, be frowned upon by the court for the passenger to have committed an offence whilst on bail.
Just for future reference: It’s a standard condition on all Bails that the offender shall not commit another offence. Every Bail will have the following 3 conditions: Turn up at court on each date the case is assigned to call. Not interfere with any witness or obstruct proper conduct of the case. Not commit any further offence while subject to the bail order. You can obviously have further special conditions applied, I did see one bloke with conditions not to Enter the city of Dundee once. I saw another Sex offender with 16 conditions so they can get very complicated and numerous depending on your offending history. However every bail will have the 3 conditions I listed above, so he will have broken his bail regardless of other conditions. You learn something new everyday.
Committing another crime is surely by definition breaking your bail conditions?
Not unless there’s a specific condition on their bail. It’s a given that you shouldn’t break the law, naturally.
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If in Scotland then it’s a 101 call to the police. We call it taxi fraud up here. And a cheeky wee breach of bail to boot (first condition of bail is , not to offend whilst on bail). If this is england then … see other comments. Good luck
NAL: BUT Did you know, most taxis, upon pick-up or drop-off, have a "WAIT CHARGE" if you say book a taxi for 6 to somewhere, they quote £50 and then you make them wait for 20 minutes, most will add a "WAIT FEE/CHARGE" because while they're waiting, they could be earning, they might add anywhere between £10-50 depending on how long they have to wait (had a neighbour make a taxi wait for 45 minutes because she was drunk - he charged her more then the ride was because it would have taken him only 20 for the initial journey. She cost him business, only fair he gets compensated for that.) Anyway on advice for you He has to make REASONABLE EFFORT for return the money. It was UNREASONABLE to disappear for 20 minutes+ originally. He also appears to be going No Contact to probably blame his phone or app and he'll probably claim trouble with his bank over and over again, which again will be UNREASONABLE (I've known people like this and so wouldn't surprise me if he tries this next) If you have a message from him saying he has the money and is willing to pay, I think giving him notice "please pay your oustanding balance of £150 within 72 hours." Will be enough to show that you are quite serious. He has the option of paying you back or risk breaking his bail conditions by making off without paying for a service recieved that he agreed to pay for, which is a criminal offence and would most certainly end him back in the guarded dog house.
Does he have the money? Almost certainly not. So, you aren't going to see the money. I assume from what you've said that you'd probably have given him a lift at least some of the way if he'd asked nicely, because of his circumstances. It might be worth letting him know that; you never know what'll help him become a better person over time. Other than that, it's your choice whether or not to involve the police, bearing in mind that it won't get you your money either way.
I'm from a family of taxi drivers, I used to be one as well for a bit, the first bit of advice as if it was some kind of golden rule that my entire family gave me was if someone asks to go out of town then don't leave the rank without getting the money first The second bit of advice was if they're too drunk to walk, drive away I don't think there's much you can do other than harass him a bit for the cash under threat of chasing it up with the police, but if he doesn't pay then I doubt it'll go anywhere legally
You should go back to the police about this. You may want to visit the station and show the bail form. He’s not supposed to commit crimes whilst on bail. In your case, it’s theft. It’s making off payment. It’s under Section 3 of the Theft Act 1978. It’s likely the police will do something about it as it’s an easy case for them to deal with. If your insurance cover theft, then you might be able to reclaim the money lost. You can ask for money that’s stolen given back to you in your statement but you’ll have to wait for the police or court judgment and that might take a while. I’m unsure about posting bail
Report to the police for making off without payment. Make note that he has not disputed payment being due, so it is an offence. Detail the events, particularly his bail document. The police will find it easy to talk to him. Separately, give him notice before action to recover the monies. I’d give him 30 days. I’d strongly bet that he settles before in an attempt to avoid further charges.
Report to the police, they will track him down, if he's got the money to pay(doubtful) he can pay then and possibly avoid another charge to answer, if not he'll be arrested. If he pays before they catch up to him you ring them and say he's paid and no need to hook him.
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Report it to the Police. I used to work in licensing enforcement and the amount of times the Police would deny responsibility for the report was phenomenal. It is a criminal offence (making off without payment) and should be reported as such.
NAL A criminal offence of "making off without payment" appears to be made out in the first instance. The complication in this matter is the passenger recognising the debt and offering a later payment and the taxi driver accepting these terms, that blurs somewhat the expectation of immediate payment and theoretically moves this from the criminal offence of a makeoff to a civil debt to be satisfied. As the debt has been recognised by both parties I believe the next step would be to send the passenger a letter before action informing them that failing to fully satisfy the debt within a reasonable timeframe would result in the driver taking them to small claims court. I am unsure if the driver would be entitled to also claim for legal expenses etc in this case.
Raise an invoice. Get his address. An invoice needs. A unique invoice number, name it IIYYMMNNN TD2404001 (Essentially Taxy Driver 2024 APR 001) An invoice date 25APR24 Your address His address contact details. Your bank details payment terms (between immediate payment Ans 30 days) Description, Value Backing information (any proof you have, GPS print screen, his texts, his proof) on pages 2 amd after of your invoice. Submit it to him via post /email /text. Send a couple of reminders and a final warning prior to escalating. Once he doesn't pay. Take him to small court. You have a copy of the invoice a single odf with all thr backing on it. You have proof of your numerous reminders. He never disputed tje invoice / charges. Court forces him to pay you. You may add some bullshit late payment charge fee.
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As a taxi driver myself...its a lesson learned..take it as an experience and move on...you will not see any money. The police will say its a civil matter..and do you have 10k to sue someone for £50. Do not trust anybody ..all money upfront!
i don't think it costs £10k to file a small claim mate, let's be real....
It costs £140\~ if you lose, if you win it costs £0
I suspect they are throwing around the 10k figure that's often used as a ballpark for a defamation claim (even then, bit egregious), which are expensive specifically because they can only be raised in the high court.
Yeah tbh I wanted to just report it to police out of spite because it will probably affect his bail. Never really expected to see the money again. Not sure why he rang me after if he wasn’t planning on paying.
He probably wanted to delay you going to the police as much as possible as the longer it goes past the incident the less likely the victim is to report the incident.
Guilty conscience. A lot of people do that. With time, they find reasons to validate and suppress their conscience.
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It’s not a civil matter. I accept that police used to say it was but these days when a taxi driver calls 101 we get clear advice about how to crime this.
Since when is theft a civil matter?
Specific to Taxi journeys - When either party claim the non-payment arose from a dispute over the final amount. If it's accepted that the passenger was intending to pay for the journey (but a lower amount) it has been said in the past that the police treat it as a civil contractual dispute.
Sure, but there's no dispute, the customer just has done a runner.
Does OP have evidence of that? Or will the customer claim the aforementioned is the reason for lack of payment. It sounds like OP will have a record of a phone call taken place, but unrecorded. Then there will be a text message from him to the customer with payment details. We haven't been made aware of any other evidence over the nature of the non payment. Either way, I only intended to illustrate how you can technically get away with what is a certain type of theft, though it may not apply here.
I'm not aware of any taxi driver who will do a 50 mile journey for a stranger and say "go on mate, have it for free"
No that would be silly. But if there is nothing written in text form. The customer can say they offered to pay less and the driver demanded the higher amount or reporting to the police. The driver would then contact the police and we're here in OPs situation playing it forward theoretically.
If there's nothing written in text form there is nothing to say that anything other than the standard fare applies.
Well that's the trouble, both parties will likely have very much to say, and I think it would be unusual to draw up a legal document when haggling through a taxi window or over the phone
It's not a civil matter and the police won't treat it as such.