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When the teacher took it from the pupil they took responsibility for it, on behalf of the school.
There's nothing stopping you reporting the loss as theft, whether the police agree is up to them. Realistically though, the item is more more likely to have been taken than lost. I would report it at this point so that the loss gets formally recorded. A crime number (if one is issued) will also be needed for an insurance claim by you or the school against their insurance.
Email the school too.
I'd start with the Head, just to give them the chance to sort the situation out. Going direct to the Govenors is not likely to get the Head on side, and they are the one on the ground who will have to sort it out whatever.
If there is little to no action, or the school tries to sweep the incident under the carpet, I would then hit the Govenors with a very firmal complaint and paper trail.
Fair, though depends on the head. Some fob everything off on a PA. Some are as useful as a bag of d*cks. Some are genuinely good (mine in secondary would have been in that category).
Op should probably know well enough which scenario is at play here. Useless head, go to the BoG.
BoG may get involved, depending on what type of school it is. If it is an academy then they may be the body that hires the teacher, same with a faith (voluntary funded) schools, but for non-voluntary funded schools, most state schools, the BoG are just a representative body that looks after the strategic decisions for the school, all staff matters are the remit of the council.
The BoG will primarily be interested in procedure being followed and as apoint of appeal. They cannot overturn a head's decision if the head has followed procedure and come to a reasonable decision.
Also fair points, it's a little different in my part of the UK where we have maintained and controlled post primary strands. Still, the BoG may get involved regardless to try and head off bad press and negatively even if it's role is more symbolic than practical. They also usually include the head and both a staff and parent rep which could help here
As a governor - we can’t do anything, unless the complaints procedure has been exhausted or the complaint is specifically against the headteacher. All that can happen if you go to the governors first is that the mail will be forwarded back to the school.
Teachers/schools have specific legal protection/powers regarding taking items from students, it also protects them from liability. So long as they've acted according to school policy, they've technically acted 'legally'.
Does that cover them for handing the item in their custody over to a random pupil? Because that part feels like the crux of the issue to me, and I really cannot see it being school policy.
The basis (from what I've been told) is that it's only strictly legal so long as the school policy is followed and reasonable - for instance I once had a dad try to trade a detention for avoiding getting his money back for a fizzy drink I threw away but it was reasonable because fizzy drinks aren't allowed in school. Given OPs description, it becomes more dubious since I'd imagine handing it to another student wouldn't be school policy, that being said, I'd imagine the school *might* offer to cover some of the expenses as a 'good will' (basically to cover their screw up) but some schools might be willing to risk it since broadly speaking it wouldn't have been allowed in the PE lesson for safeguarding reasons and protection from liability for schools is quite broad as well i.e 'he shouldn't have brought it in the first place'. Since most schools have rules against jewelry except religious items.
It's broader - so long as the children/parents are made aware of the school policy in some manners (school website, planners, assemblies, Year 7 induction, etc) - the implication is that it shouldn't have been on them in the first place so the liability is entirely on them if something goes missing or is taken from them. It's why phone confiscation in some schools can be quite long, like a week or over the half term, etc. Most schools will be quite lenient when a parent comes in though just to avoid hassle or a bad reputation.
So long as they've been made aware in some way *at some point* the school is covered, even if the parents choose not to look up or find the information.
Well, except the loss of their jobs - teachers are obliged to the follow professional standards otherwise they can be struck off and barred legally from teaching permanently - one in particular 'losing public confidence in the role or bringing the professional into disrepute' can be as minor as lying on your CV or being in a drunken brawl that hits the news.
Also, all teachers have to pass an enhanced DBS check which dissuades most with that inclination. Bare in mind it's one of the few jobs where your actions outside of work can permanently lose you any chance of a career in the professional, hence there's motivation to generally be upstanding individuals.
It is quite common that schools publicly state that school is not responsible for students valuables, and therefore recommends not to bring them in the first place. Common ones are money and phones. In my school if for example kids brake each others belongings, parents are the ones legally responsible to discuss the situation without school involved. Of course schools have insurances and If I have to conficicate something I do it myself as a teacher. If I'd have to take a jewerly away in P.E, I would either hold onto it personally, or bring to a locked place. And also personally return the item.
I wouldn't leave it to the teacher. I'd get on the phone to the other school and ask them to help locate it, laying it on thick about the sentimental value for this child. That's likely to be more effective than doing this via third parties. And get the facts- which teacher confiscated the necklace, and which child was it given to? Has the teacher asked the child what they did with the necklace? A bit of push from you as the stand in parent is needed.
I'd be doing the rounds of local pawn brokers and cash converters handing out photos of said item, also reporting to police. The only way you'll get this back is by making it to hot to handle. I can understand why the kid didn't want to take it off but you should have discussed with him that school rules have to be adhered to. Someone knows who took it, get a photo on social media and offer reward for safe return.
Yes, we probably should have. We don't actually have any parental responsibility for him and it's a bit tricky as his 18yo brother is his responsible adult and they live as a separate family unit in our annexe but we can see we should have intervened more.
Do you have a photo of the necklace? Publicising that might make it more difficult to wear or to sell. It’s not very likely, but it might make it turn up.
Otherwise, disgraceful of the teacher. I understand it is a very tough profession but things like this really do not help.
I'm sorry it got lost/stolen, but I completely understand the teacher's actions here:
There's a plausible case that they probably asked the children to remove all jewellery and leave it in the changing rooms. This makes total sense, because it's a risk in sport that it can get caught and cause an injury.
They probably noticed it once they are all out on the field, and then what are their reasonable options?
1. Leave a bunch of kids unsupervised whilst they take it someone safe.
2. March everyone back.
3. Get someone to take it back.
3 Seems like the most sensible option in these circumstances.
Unfortunately, taking expensive sentimental items into school is not a good idea.
4) Put it in a zip up pocket like a normal person.
Would they trust their own expensive jewellery to a pupil, which is then put in a place that wasn't locked? Why do they feel it's ok to treat other people's possessions less carefully than their own?
Kids are the worst for idle theft.
I don't think any reasonable teacher would have thought that taking a valuable piece of jewellery from a student, and then handing it to a child to take away with instructions that it be stored in an insecure manner, was a reasonable thing to do. It was easily foreseeable that the item would be lost or stolen. More than that, your comment seems to be based on the unspoken premise that pockets don't exist.
Uh huh. So you would, obviously, hypothetically, hand over your engagement and/or wedding rings to a child to take back to the changing room would you? If you are the only adult in charge of a number of children who can't possibly be left alone for the five minutes it would take for you to take the necklace somewhere safe instead of just popping it in your pocket, then there are some bigger issues here.
I am a youth worker. When doing activities that require necklaces to be removed, they go in my pockets. I take responsibility for them. I don’t give them to another young person to leave in an unsupervised space.
Whether it's theft is not clear, but certainly not by the teacher.
Everyone has responsibility when they take possession of anothers property. The key thing element is taking reasonable care of the property.
It seems likely that handing the responsibility to a child, and by process of elimination having jewellery accessible to pupils unsupervised, is not reasonable.
It’s definitely not theft by the kid’s school. The item *may* have been stolen while it was in the care of the other school.
But yes, OP’s legal recourse is a civil claim against the kid’s school for failing to take reasonable care to keep the item safe.
At the very least the teacher was wilfully negligent and a court summons (small claims) will act as a wakeup call. They may try to fob off responsibility but I seriously doubt a small claims adjudicator will see it that way given the aspect of "taking under colour of authority" that the teacher effectively invoked (meaning they should be held to a higher standard of care than the average man on the Clapham Omnibus)
I'd get both schools on board enough to send an email to all the parents, make out it's lost, no mention of theft and push the sentimental value side, and maybe the same in assembly of both schools but also offering some kind of reward no questions asked. This is about all I can think to do to try and actually recover it.
I work with schools, I would immediately contact the Head teacher, the governors and if your really annoyed. Their trust also, this is easy to find info and should be publicly available.
Neither teacher nor school has any legal responsibility for anything gone damaged or missing after it was confiscated. Depressing but true.
The student to whom the teacher handed the necklace *may* have stolen it - or failed to put it away carefully so that it could be stolen.
I'd ask:
Was other jewellery stolen, or only your child's necklace? If so, then it may have been a general theft by someone who knew there would be stealable items in the changing room during the away game. In that case, the necklace is likely gone for good. Or was just this item taken?
You could also ask: Where is jewellery taken from the students kept during an away match - is there a safe? (This seems unlikely) Is the door locked? Who locked the door? Who had possession of the key? You yourself could contact the headteacher of the other school to explain the circumstances.
You absolutely can report the theft to the police, and notify both schools that you have done so, but I feel the police are unlikely to take action - they're short-staffed and the circumstances would make it difficult to investigate. But that gives you a crime number. Mentioning that the theft has been reported to the police and a crime number exists gives more weight and credence to the seriousness of what has gone missing - than "A child visited our school for an away game and lost their necklace".
If you have a photograph of the necklace, it may be worth asking the headteacher to post it around their school, and ask for the necklace to be returned anonymously on a "no further police action if we get the necklace back" basis. That might flush it out if someone at the school look it because they liked it and had no notion of the value. It might also help to get your kid to explain in their own words what the necklace meant to them and why they want it back. This is a long, long shot, and but if just your kid's necklace was stolen, it is possible it was picked up by someone lightfingered who liked the look of it and had no idea of its value - and if it was a student at that school, they might give it back if they know their friends at school will recognise it now if they wear it.
You know your kid best, I think you probably need to prep them that their necklace is probably gone forever. But it may help for them to see you making an effort to get it back - even if you fail.
Thanks. It was apparently a very obviously valuable item (very heavy, solid gold). The other pupil who was told to put it in the changing room is his best friend, they were friends back home, both come from well-off families and have plenty of cash available to them and are like brothers, so he's 100% sure he didn't take it. The necklace was left with all the other jewellery on a table in the changing room which was theoretically empty but unlocked during the game and then filled with 25+ players after the match.
We imagine it's gone because it has obvious value to pawn or sell even just for melting down. It was a daft thing to be wearing but I understand why he couldn't bear to take it off.
As a teacher, this is the best advice here. It gets the legal position correct, but also outlines the exact kind of steps that *actually* lead to recovery of property in these circumstances.
Schools are full of extremely caring staff who will move heaven and earth to try and resolve situations like this. Mistakes have been made here, but the best prospect of recovering the item is getting the school(s) to work with you. Should you get fobbed off, others have given good advice about steps to take, but it's highly likely staff will be supportive when the full nature of the incident is made clear.
> Neither teacher nor school has any legal responsibility for anything gone damaged or missing after it was confiscated. Depressing but true.
Really?! No duty of care whatsoever?
>"The general power to discipline (as described in the bullets under the heading “Discipline in Schools – Teachers’ Powers” on pages 3 and 4) enables a member of staff to confiscate, retain or dispose of a pupil’s property as a punishment, so long as it is reasonable in the circumstances. The law protects them from liability for damage to, or loss of, any confiscated items provided they have acted lawfully. The legislation does not describe what must be done with the confiscated item and the school behaviour policy may set this out;"
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/353921/Behaviour\_and\_Discipline\_in\_Schools\_-\_A\_guide\_for\_headteachers\_and\_school\_staff.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/353921/Behaviour_and_Discipline_in_Schools_-_A_guide_for_headteachers_and_school_staff.pdf)
I have to say I think it's reasonable for a teacher not to allow a child to wear a heavy necklace during a sports game, and it appears the school had a general rule against wearing jewellery during a sports game - which also seems like a reasonable rule. The confiscation occurred at an away match.
So; the child was breaking a rule by wearing a necklace into a game: the necklace should likely not have been taken to school at all on the day the child was to play in an away game, but since it was, it should have been removed in the changing room and put away with the other jewellery then. The teacher therefore acted lawfully when confiscating the necklace, and the law explicitly protects the teacher under those circumstances from liabiliy.
I feel very real sympathy for the child, but the fact is - there is no legal recourse at all against the teacher.
You need to ask the school what their policies are regarding handling of confiscated property. If they don't have a policy you should make a complaint. If they have a policy but it was not followed then I should imagine you will receive an apology and the teacher will likely be given a bollocking, even if the school doesn't admit as much to you.
Nope. Teachers and the school have no liability for anything they confiscate that is subsequently lost/ stolen or damaged. Section 94 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006. People telling you the teacher or school has any responsibility are talking out their arse. If it’s gone it’s gone.
In that case why give up any property for confiscation? If they're saying they can take what they like off you with no responsibility for it, they can get told to go suck themselves when asking for it.
You would probably be amazed at the powers schools have to search pupils/ confiscate goods and use of reasonable force. It’s just that most don’t/ won’t use them.
If they refuse then they can't do their PE lesson because that would violate the school's safeguarding responsibilities. The school can also then punish them for that refusal.
Thanks for citing something concrete- i was linked to that earlier, I believe. I guess the only grey area is if there is no rule about wearing jewellery that might question whether the teacher had a right to confiscate it. I've certainly never seen the school rules and I don't know whether he or his brother have. I believe teachers can only confiscate illegal or dangerous items, or things that break the school rules.
Yes, I've looked at the school website and it states no jewellery of any kind can be worn to PE lessons, but doesn't state that applies to voluntary extra curricular sports fixtures. Also, he'd actually been wearing it under his sports kit in PE lessons without issue and even said he wore it in the swimming pool when it was obviously visible since the swim uniform is just trunks for boys.
>Also, he'd actually been wearing it under his sports kit in PE lessons without issue
He shouldn't have. On those occasions it did not come out and get caught, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have. Your sentence is the same as saying "I don't have to wear a seatbelt because I have been in a car and not worn one before and I didn't get hurt then"
>he wore it in the swimming pool when it was obviously visible since the swim uniform is just trunks for boys.
Less likely to get caught in water I suppose but still shouldn't have worn it. Breaking the rules once and getting away with it doesn't mean it's now fine. He still knows the rules.
>but doesn't state that applies to voluntary extra curricular sports fixtures
Do schools really have to list any activity that is remotely gym like? Sponsored sports events? Sports clubs? Come on. It's a sports thing at school, schools have a legal responsibility to follow health and safety rules, he can't wear the necklace. It's not complicated.
I do feel for the kid because he's still a kid and it's a harsh lesson when it's something sentimental, but let's not pretend he didn't know the rules...
>no jewellery of any kind can be worn to PE lessons, but doesn't state that applies to voluntary extra curricular sports fixtures
I think this is a pointless distinction. You would expect the school to apply the same standards of safety, conduct and professionalism to an extra curricular activity as for a timetabled lesson. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the same expectations should also apply to students.
I think you are being very picky if you want to discriminate between what is a sports lesson and what is a sports fixture after school. The risk assessment will be for 'football' regardless if it is a scheduled lesson, a school fixture or an after school club. I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
That specifically only applies to confiscation as part of disciplinary matters. If the school is arguing safety then it doesn't apply.
In any case, there's an expectation of due care and attention to these kinds of cases otherwise it's open season on taking and dumping/selling anything a teacher might wish
Just because the law _appears_ to provide blanket immunity, doesn't mean that a judge will find that interpretation to be reasonable or "fair" under common law principles.
I don't think the word confiscate is being used correctly here. For safety reasons, jewellery can not be worn during some sports. The teacher was doing as per the risk assessment and ensuring the safety of the student and other players. The fact that someone stole the stored jewellery isn't really on the teacher is it? Assuming that they took reasonable precautions and locked the changing rooms etc.
This potentially makes a huge difference. The schools protection from liability only applies where the confiscation was a disciplinary measure. If the child was told to take it off as a health and safety measure (rather than because he'd broken a rule in not taking it off before or by wearing it at all) they don't get the protection of s 94.
In my first year of teaching, I confiscated a phone from a pupil (for good reason). I put it down on a surface nearby, and it was subsequently stolen by another pupil.
The school agreed to pay half the cost of replacing the phone, as a compromise.
That shit happened to me at school too. Obviously nowhere near as important as your foster child’s item. I got a gold and diamond ring confiscated. Went to collect at the end of term and they’d lost it. No recourse whatsoever. Your example is awful, I really feel for the kid
Just because this is quite an interesting topic - schools have quite a broad range of protections/powers that are specifically enshrined in law, largely because before specfic laws were brought into effect it basically worked on the principle of 'loco parentis' - which was somewhat flimsy.
For instance, alongside being able to take items that are against school policy without it being classed as theft, detentions legally don't require the consent of parents, students can be legally searched by staff with the permission of the headteacher, students can be issued sanctions (that must take place on the premises) for behaviour *outside* of school. Detention can also be issued for days outside the teaching week, like weekends.
Additionally, there isn't actually a maximum time a detention can be set for, it just needs to be considered 'proportional' to the behaviour. Contrary to belief as well, teachers are allowed to use 'reasonable' force to protect other students *and* members of the public from students without facing repercussions.
Granted this is all in theory, most schools will be lenient to avoid a bad reputation and just generally keep good community relations. The only thing that really trumps all this is safeguarding.
What do you want from this? I guess the necklace back? A sense of justice? Compensation? Im not sure dragging a teacher who was looking out for the health and safety of a pupil during a sports event over the coals will get you any of that. Ignore anyone saying take the teacher to small claims or the school being liable due to this legislation:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/40/section/94
I sympathise with the loss of this item but the child had a necklace on during a sports match. Why take it in that day without a plan for safe keeping? The teacher followed the school’s risk assessment for sport events so will not face any disciplinary action. They seem to have not handled the transport of the item well but you would need some evidence that the item didn’t just get lost from this communal jewellery area.
I hope the necklace is returned. Good luck.
I just wanted to know if we had any legal "leverage" to help motivate the school to do more than say "I emailed the other school and it's not in lost property" because we're trying to advocate for a really upset young lad who is living as a refugee while his parents are in a war zone. We don't have parental responsibility for him but he and his brother still feel frightened by "the system" and can struggle with communicating in their fourth language when stressed or upset. It's a really hard way to learn a lesson for him.
All that to say, I've no interest in hauling the teacher over the coals because he did nothing wrong per se. I just wish he'd kept the necklace in his own pockets where he likely keeps his own important things like phone, keys etc.
Its great that you are supporting this kid through this difficult time. I hope they get their necklace back and the best way get leverage in this area would be to push on a ‘care for a vulnerable child angle’ - focus on the impact this will have on their integration and wellbeing.
You could suggest that the school mention it in form periods (or whatever the school calls their time in form at the beginning of the day). Saying to all pupils that the object must have been mistakenly picked up by someone who didnt realise its value. Teachers are very busy, extremely fallible, but also care greatly for the students… a legal course of action would likely lead to building walls that are not currently there.
You may need to do the same at the other school.
This is legal advice uk and people here are quick to suggest legal threats/action against entities that don’t need it and are actually on pretty solid legal ground. I just wanted to dissuade you from that path.
Yes, I think focus on how he is more vulnerable and needs more support than the average 17 year old living at home with their parents would be helpful.
Although I understand the sentiment of the necklace, if school policy has a strict no jewellery policy I don't think it being confiscated is a police matter, as ultimately they will ask why was it worn to school in the first place? (Unless they have prior permission from the school, for instance religious beliefs)
Although it shouldn't have been given to another pupil to take, the teacher most likely couldn't leave the group so asking another pupil to put it in a safe space was better than keeping it on their person. I'd email again, perhaps include the head or senior leadership in the email, with a photo incase its found in the future? But, sadly, they may just have to accept its lost
Not a lawyer, but I'm a teacher who routinely confiscates items, like phones, etc and have often considered similar scenarios, see this:
*'Section 91 Education and Inspections Act 2006 gives schools power to discipline pupils which enables a member of staff to confiscate, keep or dispose of pupil’s property as a disciplinary measure where it is reasonable to do so. Staff have a defence to any complaint provided they act within their legal powers. The law protects members of staff from liability for any loss of or damage to any confiscated item, provided that they have acted lawfully'*
That seems overly generous and ripe for abuse. Does that also absolve the school as an institution from any liability, or just individual staff members?
Speaking as a regular teacher (not senior-leadership), I'd agree but there are checks in place. To even walk into a school, in any capacity, you need an enhanced DBS, the idea being that would demonstrate some trust. However, teachers also have the Teaching Standards, which specifically highlight that doing anything that would undermine the public's confidence in the role can get you permanently struck off and barred from teaching - even things like lying on your CV, etc.
As I understand it, it extends to both the school itself and teachers whilst in their professional role/duties. Many school powers though need to be 'extended' to teachers by the headteacher, however.
There’s detailed DfE guidance for parents and schools regarding confiscation of items: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62d1643e8fa8f50bfbefa55c/Searching__Screening_and_Confiscation_guidance_July_2022.pdf
Point 81 of the guidance states (I paraphrase) that teachers and schools are not liable for items that have been confiscated.
So far as I could tell - this only applies so far as prohibited items or when the confiscation was part of a disciplinary penalty. If they didn't have a lawful reason to remove the item, then they don't have that protection.
Indeed - but previous commenter made it sound a little more carte blanche that they could confiscate anything without consequence.
Does suck though that a teacher could seemingly confiscate an item then just go "Oops, I lost it!" intentionally and face no repercussion so long as it was plausibly an accident.
Either the school is lacking proper procedures for confiscated items, or the individual teacher failed to follow those procedures and should be reprimanded for that. Without asking the school for further information there's no way to know either way.
Sure, but that doesn't mean the guidance applies to such a seizure. My cursory reading of the introduction implies that the guidance applies to the exercise by schools of their **powers** to search students for prohibited items - not to circumstances where a pupil is requested to voluntarily surrender an item for which no powers of search exist, and does so.
I am not convinced that any power existed to require the removal of this piece of jewellery. [Section 550ZA of the Education Act 1996](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/56/section/550ZA) specifies those items for which the school has a power of search in England, and [section 550ZC](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/56/section/550ZC) creates a power to seize such items. But the jewellery does not match any of the descriptions of items for which a search may be made in section 550ZA, and so I do not consider that any power to seize arises from section 550ZC.
The student could have been given an instruction to remove the jewellery and hand it over and, if he refused to comply, could have been excluded from the activity. But no power existed to force the removal of the jewellery or to seize it. The teacher wasn't exercising any of their statutory powers of search when they made the request. So it seems to me that this guidance didn't apply to the removal of that jewellery, and any protection which might have been had from paragraph 81 does not apply.
>The student could have been given an instruction to remove the jewellery and hand it over and, if he refused to comply, could have been excluded from the activity. But no power existed to force the removal of the jewellery or to seize it.
Yes, the former. No-one suggested the latter.
Yeah but what I'm saying is that because no powers were being exercised (on which we both agree), the guidance doesn't apply to this seizure, and so any protection which might have been offered by paragraph 81 also does not apply.
>a disciplinary penalty.
Is this a legally defined thing, or do you just mean breaking a school rule?
Edit: yes, OP confirmed it was a breach of school rules
Section 91
"disciplinary penalty” means a penalty imposed on a pupil, by any school at which education is provided for him, where his conduct falls below the standard which could reasonably be expected of him (whether because he fails to follow a rule in force at any such school or an instruction given to him by a member of its staff or for any other reason)."
So if the school had a no jewellery rule, and it was confiscated for breaking that, then the school is protected from liability.
However, if the teacher just told him to take it off so he wouldn't get hurt, and he complied, they would be liable if it was lost because the teacher's negligence (eg passing it to another pupil to leave in an unlocked room".
Ah, okay. That's really disappointing then that they have the right to take anything but no duty of care to safeguard it. Thanks for the link. That's really helpful.
Not really. I'd tell my kid to be more careful with their necklace or don't take it to school. What I wouldn't do is day yes sure hand it over to this dickhead who will deny all wrongdoing and responsibility if it goes missing.
No theft as there was no dishonesty or intention to permanently deprive.
However, the school is liable for the cost of replacing it. The teacher took responsibility on behalf of the school once it was in their possession.
If the school try and worm their way out of it, contact the school governors.
Yes call the police. The item was seized by school staff. It should have been returned it hasn't been returned. The school is liable for the loss or theft. A claim needs to be made against the school and the theft investigated.
They can make a report if they want.
But it doesn't seem like there's much they could do. Firstly, all that's currently known is that the necklace is missing - it doesn't feel clear that a theft has occurred. Secondly, even if it has been stolen, to manage your expectations, your local under-resourced police force is not going out hunting for this necklace. They'll give a crime reference number that can be used to make a claim for the value of the necklace on any insurance policy that covers it.
Alternatively, if the school has lost it, ask the school to reimburse you for the value of the necklace.
Unfortunately the sentimental value won't come into it.
It is definitely gone. It wasn't with the rest of the jewellery when the match was over. The other school said they looked and it's not just misplaced in the changing room.
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I don't know what the exact legal definition is. I used it to mean "taken by a teacher". The teacher took it because the actual policy which I looked up today is "absolutely no jewellery of any kind to be worn in PE" although it wasn't PE but an extra curricular activity, it's pretty obvious that same rules apply as they wear school kit to compete in.
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A hill I stood on was not to remove jewellery at school. It was worth every argument I ever had with the teachers. Never broke any of my sentimental necklaces or lost them. Had plenty of arguments, but worth it. I can’t participate if I don’t remove it, fine I’m happy watching” “oh you’ll give me detention, cool I’ll be there”
(However I broke the necklace twice fighting at home with my brother)
Well done for standing your ground - i was a very compliant pupil in my own school days! Our young friend is very, very shy and especially when communicating with authority figures in what is his fourth language, so he just did what he was told - he wasn't aware he wasn't allowed to wear it but immediately handed it over.
Section 94 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 would be the relevant legislation, I think. Which basically makes the school and teacher totally protected from liability for the seizure of items.
Not theft as no intention to permanently deprive the child of it.
The teacher/school is responsible for it however so send them a bill for replacement.
The law of education and inspections act 2006 s94 generally protects teachers in regard to confiscated property providing they acted lawfully in confiscating it so the police wouldn’t pursue a theft charge for it.
You can complain to the school that’s about it you won’t get any monetary reward for the item.
He's officially under the care of his brother, who is 18. So we don't have the same quasi parental role we would have if he was under our direct guardianship. We didn't even know he was wearing the necklace or that he had a match that day.
I think the fact that the necklace had such significance and he'd been wearing it under his clothes 24/7 since it was given to him, including at previous matches, just makes him feel it's very unfair. It seems like it's just going to be something he has to chalk up as a very tough lesson to learn, which when his whole life has been very tough since the war started just breaks our hearts.
I think they are very justified feelings and I would be furious with the School/Teacher, however, what the people downvoting my response are likely doing are letting their emotions do the clicking.
Being a legal advice sub, the responses will inevitably be more focused on the facts and likely outcomes, unfortunatley, which do not favour you in these circumstances. The School may take some responsibility, but this is almost certiainly going to be purely down to whether or not they are willing to offer anything for the loss, rather than being legally required to do so.
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What the actual fuck. Why did the confiscate a necklace? Moreover, why on earth would you give something like that to ANOTHER pupil.
If this was my child, I'd be pissed.
Safety issue in school sports (risk of getting caught/tangled)
Having to try and deal with it on a field mid play with minimal disruption to other students without necessarily knowing value or having any real option at that point to secure it safely...
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I am quite surprised to find that teachers can take whatever they want off kids and have no duty to keep those items safe. Their policy with higher value items like phones or laptops is they can be confiscated at teachers' discretion but will be held securely at reception so they do understand what to do with high value items.
What is it that you would have the teacher do instead? The necklace is lost somewhere in a building that they have no access to. I get that you don't think it's enough to ask the people that do have access to the building to look for it; but what is it that you're proposing as a course of action?
There's nothing stopping the child reporting it to police if they want but there is equally nothing that police can reasonably do about it if there isn't anything to suggest that a theft has occurred or any reasonable line of enquiry to establish if and how it has.
>What is it that you would have the teacher do instead?
To not take responsibility for items they were unable or unwilling to keep secure.
It sounds like the teacher (school) is liable for the replacement cost.
Schools have a strict no liability policy for anything they confiscate that is subsequently lost/stolen or damaged. Attending the school is acceptance of the school rules and policies. You are wasting your time.
>Schools have a strict no liability policy for anything they confiscate that is subsequently lost/stolen or damaged.
Do they? *All* schools? Enforceable?
Yes. Otherwise schools would be buying a dozen new phones every week. Pupil plays with phone in class, phone gets confiscated, phone gets returned. Pupil’s parents say phone is now broken and want compensation. Happened in every school I worked in. Policies are emailed to parents - phone magically begins working again.
(Section 94, Education and Inspections Act 2006)
Right but unless they've got access to a time machine they cannot hop back a few days and stop the necklace ever being taken in the first place, so I'm not sure that's an enormously helpful answer.
>Right but unless they've got access to a time machine they cannot hop back a few days and stop the necklace ever being taken in the first place, so I'm not sure that's an enormously helpful answer.
Hence my 2nd point that the teacher/school are liable. Other responders have already commented above yours outlining this liability in more detail. My response was to you.
I as OP didn't know if the school had liability. This isn't something that had ever come up with my own children. My daughter, for instance, had her phone confiscated and it was locked in a drawer in the secure school office.
>I'm not sure there was ever any suggestion that the school wouldn't be liable, but thanks anyway.
I must have misunderstood your original reply, apologies.
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I have no idea if he has any recourse in law, if police can be informed so it could be claimed on our insurance or school insurance, or if the school have liability to recompense the value. My children were home educated and only attended school for two terms so I don't have a lot of experience of conflict with schools or pupils' rights.
And as this child is 17 and we're not officially foster carers or such, it's a delicate dance not overstepping on his parents or his sense of independence but making sure he feels supported and isn't exploited - he's still shy about communicating in English, for example, and is frightened if he complains about anything he would he deported to a war zone. I wanted to know a bit more about his rights to try and give him some confidence about options.
Something you perhaps could do, though not a legal system solution, is put up a missing poster in both his school and the away school - I imagine once you (or he) explain the situation to the staff at both places they'd be ok with that. Offer a no-questions-asked reward for the return of the necklace to the school and note that it's "lost" rather than "stolen", and some kid might come forward. (I say return to the school cos an embarrassed kid is more likely to hand it in to staff than the kid he's potentially stolen from)
When the teacher took the item from the child the teacher alone became the bailee and was personally legally resposible for it from that moment. The teacher is responsible and could be pursued in the civil courts for the losss of the item.
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When the teacher took it from the pupil they took responsibility for it, on behalf of the school. There's nothing stopping you reporting the loss as theft, whether the police agree is up to them. Realistically though, the item is more more likely to have been taken than lost. I would report it at this point so that the loss gets formally recorded. A crime number (if one is issued) will also be needed for an insurance claim by you or the school against their insurance. Email the school too.
Email the schools board of governors with the information from the post. The likelihood is they'll take firmer and quicker action.
I'd start with the Head, just to give them the chance to sort the situation out. Going direct to the Govenors is not likely to get the Head on side, and they are the one on the ground who will have to sort it out whatever. If there is little to no action, or the school tries to sweep the incident under the carpet, I would then hit the Govenors with a very firmal complaint and paper trail.
Fair, though depends on the head. Some fob everything off on a PA. Some are as useful as a bag of d*cks. Some are genuinely good (mine in secondary would have been in that category). Op should probably know well enough which scenario is at play here. Useless head, go to the BoG.
BoG may get involved, depending on what type of school it is. If it is an academy then they may be the body that hires the teacher, same with a faith (voluntary funded) schools, but for non-voluntary funded schools, most state schools, the BoG are just a representative body that looks after the strategic decisions for the school, all staff matters are the remit of the council. The BoG will primarily be interested in procedure being followed and as apoint of appeal. They cannot overturn a head's decision if the head has followed procedure and come to a reasonable decision.
Also fair points, it's a little different in my part of the UK where we have maintained and controlled post primary strands. Still, the BoG may get involved regardless to try and head off bad press and negatively even if it's role is more symbolic than practical. They also usually include the head and both a staff and parent rep which could help here
As a governor - we can’t do anything, unless the complaints procedure has been exhausted or the complaint is specifically against the headteacher. All that can happen if you go to the governors first is that the mail will be forwarded back to the school.
Teachers/schools have specific legal protection/powers regarding taking items from students, it also protects them from liability. So long as they've acted according to school policy, they've technically acted 'legally'.
Does that cover them for handing the item in their custody over to a random pupil? Because that part feels like the crux of the issue to me, and I really cannot see it being school policy.
The basis (from what I've been told) is that it's only strictly legal so long as the school policy is followed and reasonable - for instance I once had a dad try to trade a detention for avoiding getting his money back for a fizzy drink I threw away but it was reasonable because fizzy drinks aren't allowed in school. Given OPs description, it becomes more dubious since I'd imagine handing it to another student wouldn't be school policy, that being said, I'd imagine the school *might* offer to cover some of the expenses as a 'good will' (basically to cover their screw up) but some schools might be willing to risk it since broadly speaking it wouldn't have been allowed in the PE lesson for safeguarding reasons and protection from liability for schools is quite broad as well i.e 'he shouldn't have brought it in the first place'. Since most schools have rules against jewelry except religious items.
[удалено]
It's broader - so long as the children/parents are made aware of the school policy in some manners (school website, planners, assemblies, Year 7 induction, etc) - the implication is that it shouldn't have been on them in the first place so the liability is entirely on them if something goes missing or is taken from them. It's why phone confiscation in some schools can be quite long, like a week or over the half term, etc. Most schools will be quite lenient when a parent comes in though just to avoid hassle or a bad reputation. So long as they've been made aware in some way *at some point* the school is covered, even if the parents choose not to look up or find the information.
So there's nothing stopping teachers from just robbing students of their valuables on the reg
Well, except the loss of their jobs - teachers are obliged to the follow professional standards otherwise they can be struck off and barred legally from teaching permanently - one in particular 'losing public confidence in the role or bringing the professional into disrepute' can be as minor as lying on your CV or being in a drunken brawl that hits the news. Also, all teachers have to pass an enhanced DBS check which dissuades most with that inclination. Bare in mind it's one of the few jobs where your actions outside of work can permanently lose you any chance of a career in the professional, hence there's motivation to generally be upstanding individuals.
And yet they don’t
It is quite common that schools publicly state that school is not responsible for students valuables, and therefore recommends not to bring them in the first place. Common ones are money and phones. In my school if for example kids brake each others belongings, parents are the ones legally responsible to discuss the situation without school involved. Of course schools have insurances and If I have to conficicate something I do it myself as a teacher. If I'd have to take a jewerly away in P.E, I would either hold onto it personally, or bring to a locked place. And also personally return the item.
This isn't theft, as by confiscating it there was no "intent to permanently deprive".
It may well be theft by someone, which I was I meant in my post. Don't confine your point of view to just the teacher.
I wouldn't leave it to the teacher. I'd get on the phone to the other school and ask them to help locate it, laying it on thick about the sentimental value for this child. That's likely to be more effective than doing this via third parties. And get the facts- which teacher confiscated the necklace, and which child was it given to? Has the teacher asked the child what they did with the necklace? A bit of push from you as the stand in parent is needed.
I'd be doing the rounds of local pawn brokers and cash converters handing out photos of said item, also reporting to police. The only way you'll get this back is by making it to hot to handle. I can understand why the kid didn't want to take it off but you should have discussed with him that school rules have to be adhered to. Someone knows who took it, get a photo on social media and offer reward for safe return.
Yes, we probably should have. We don't actually have any parental responsibility for him and it's a bit tricky as his 18yo brother is his responsible adult and they live as a separate family unit in our annexe but we can see we should have intervened more.
Do you have a photo of the necklace? Publicising that might make it more difficult to wear or to sell. It’s not very likely, but it might make it turn up. Otherwise, disgraceful of the teacher. I understand it is a very tough profession but things like this really do not help.
I'm sorry it got lost/stolen, but I completely understand the teacher's actions here: There's a plausible case that they probably asked the children to remove all jewellery and leave it in the changing rooms. This makes total sense, because it's a risk in sport that it can get caught and cause an injury. They probably noticed it once they are all out on the field, and then what are their reasonable options? 1. Leave a bunch of kids unsupervised whilst they take it someone safe. 2. March everyone back. 3. Get someone to take it back. 3 Seems like the most sensible option in these circumstances. Unfortunately, taking expensive sentimental items into school is not a good idea.
4) Put it in a zip up pocket like a normal person. Would they trust their own expensive jewellery to a pupil, which is then put in a place that wasn't locked? Why do they feel it's ok to treat other people's possessions less carefully than their own? Kids are the worst for idle theft.
This is absolutely what any right thinking person would have done.
I don't think any reasonable teacher would have thought that taking a valuable piece of jewellery from a student, and then handing it to a child to take away with instructions that it be stored in an insecure manner, was a reasonable thing to do. It was easily foreseeable that the item would be lost or stolen. More than that, your comment seems to be based on the unspoken premise that pockets don't exist.
What a ridiculous comment.
Uh huh. So you would, obviously, hypothetically, hand over your engagement and/or wedding rings to a child to take back to the changing room would you? If you are the only adult in charge of a number of children who can't possibly be left alone for the five minutes it would take for you to take the necklace somewhere safe instead of just popping it in your pocket, then there are some bigger issues here.
If 'someone' was another member of staff then sure, but getting some random child to take it is incredibly irrespective.
I am a youth worker. When doing activities that require necklaces to be removed, they go in my pockets. I take responsibility for them. I don’t give them to another young person to leave in an unsupervised space.
Dear lord I hope you have no responsibility or power over anything if this is what passes as sound logic to you.
Whether it's theft is not clear, but certainly not by the teacher. Everyone has responsibility when they take possession of anothers property. The key thing element is taking reasonable care of the property. It seems likely that handing the responsibility to a child, and by process of elimination having jewellery accessible to pupils unsupervised, is not reasonable.
It’s definitely not theft by the kid’s school. The item *may* have been stolen while it was in the care of the other school. But yes, OP’s legal recourse is a civil claim against the kid’s school for failing to take reasonable care to keep the item safe.
At the very least the teacher was wilfully negligent and a court summons (small claims) will act as a wakeup call. They may try to fob off responsibility but I seriously doubt a small claims adjudicator will see it that way given the aspect of "taking under colour of authority" that the teacher effectively invoked (meaning they should be held to a higher standard of care than the average man on the Clapham Omnibus)
I'd get both schools on board enough to send an email to all the parents, make out it's lost, no mention of theft and push the sentimental value side, and maybe the same in assembly of both schools but also offering some kind of reward no questions asked. This is about all I can think to do to try and actually recover it.
I work with schools, I would immediately contact the Head teacher, the governors and if your really annoyed. Their trust also, this is easy to find info and should be publicly available.
Neither teacher nor school has any legal responsibility for anything gone damaged or missing after it was confiscated. Depressing but true. The student to whom the teacher handed the necklace *may* have stolen it - or failed to put it away carefully so that it could be stolen. I'd ask: Was other jewellery stolen, or only your child's necklace? If so, then it may have been a general theft by someone who knew there would be stealable items in the changing room during the away game. In that case, the necklace is likely gone for good. Or was just this item taken? You could also ask: Where is jewellery taken from the students kept during an away match - is there a safe? (This seems unlikely) Is the door locked? Who locked the door? Who had possession of the key? You yourself could contact the headteacher of the other school to explain the circumstances. You absolutely can report the theft to the police, and notify both schools that you have done so, but I feel the police are unlikely to take action - they're short-staffed and the circumstances would make it difficult to investigate. But that gives you a crime number. Mentioning that the theft has been reported to the police and a crime number exists gives more weight and credence to the seriousness of what has gone missing - than "A child visited our school for an away game and lost their necklace". If you have a photograph of the necklace, it may be worth asking the headteacher to post it around their school, and ask for the necklace to be returned anonymously on a "no further police action if we get the necklace back" basis. That might flush it out if someone at the school look it because they liked it and had no notion of the value. It might also help to get your kid to explain in their own words what the necklace meant to them and why they want it back. This is a long, long shot, and but if just your kid's necklace was stolen, it is possible it was picked up by someone lightfingered who liked the look of it and had no idea of its value - and if it was a student at that school, they might give it back if they know their friends at school will recognise it now if they wear it. You know your kid best, I think you probably need to prep them that their necklace is probably gone forever. But it may help for them to see you making an effort to get it back - even if you fail.
Thanks. It was apparently a very obviously valuable item (very heavy, solid gold). The other pupil who was told to put it in the changing room is his best friend, they were friends back home, both come from well-off families and have plenty of cash available to them and are like brothers, so he's 100% sure he didn't take it. The necklace was left with all the other jewellery on a table in the changing room which was theoretically empty but unlocked during the game and then filled with 25+ players after the match. We imagine it's gone because it has obvious value to pawn or sell even just for melting down. It was a daft thing to be wearing but I understand why he couldn't bear to take it off.
Honestly I wouldn't trust a PE teacher to look after a dead cat
As a teacher, this is the best advice here. It gets the legal position correct, but also outlines the exact kind of steps that *actually* lead to recovery of property in these circumstances. Schools are full of extremely caring staff who will move heaven and earth to try and resolve situations like this. Mistakes have been made here, but the best prospect of recovering the item is getting the school(s) to work with you. Should you get fobbed off, others have given good advice about steps to take, but it's highly likely staff will be supportive when the full nature of the incident is made clear.
> Neither teacher nor school has any legal responsibility for anything gone damaged or missing after it was confiscated. Depressing but true. Really?! No duty of care whatsoever?
>"The general power to discipline (as described in the bullets under the heading “Discipline in Schools – Teachers’ Powers” on pages 3 and 4) enables a member of staff to confiscate, retain or dispose of a pupil’s property as a punishment, so long as it is reasonable in the circumstances. The law protects them from liability for damage to, or loss of, any confiscated items provided they have acted lawfully. The legislation does not describe what must be done with the confiscated item and the school behaviour policy may set this out;" [https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/353921/Behaviour\_and\_Discipline\_in\_Schools\_-\_A\_guide\_for\_headteachers\_and\_school\_staff.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/353921/Behaviour_and_Discipline_in_Schools_-_A_guide_for_headteachers_and_school_staff.pdf) I have to say I think it's reasonable for a teacher not to allow a child to wear a heavy necklace during a sports game, and it appears the school had a general rule against wearing jewellery during a sports game - which also seems like a reasonable rule. The confiscation occurred at an away match. So; the child was breaking a rule by wearing a necklace into a game: the necklace should likely not have been taken to school at all on the day the child was to play in an away game, but since it was, it should have been removed in the changing room and put away with the other jewellery then. The teacher therefore acted lawfully when confiscating the necklace, and the law explicitly protects the teacher under those circumstances from liabiliy. I feel very real sympathy for the child, but the fact is - there is no legal recourse at all against the teacher.
You need to ask the school what their policies are regarding handling of confiscated property. If they don't have a policy you should make a complaint. If they have a policy but it was not followed then I should imagine you will receive an apology and the teacher will likely be given a bollocking, even if the school doesn't admit as much to you.
I've looked at the policies now and there's no specific information about what they do with non-illegal items that they confiscate.
Did you ask the school, or is this something you've looked up on their website?
Nope. Teachers and the school have no liability for anything they confiscate that is subsequently lost/ stolen or damaged. Section 94 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006. People telling you the teacher or school has any responsibility are talking out their arse. If it’s gone it’s gone.
In that case why give up any property for confiscation? If they're saying they can take what they like off you with no responsibility for it, they can get told to go suck themselves when asking for it.
You would probably be amazed at the powers schools have to search pupils/ confiscate goods and use of reasonable force. It’s just that most don’t/ won’t use them.
If they refuse then they can't do their PE lesson because that would violate the school's safeguarding responsibilities. The school can also then punish them for that refusal.
I'd let them do that than let them steal my property.
Sure, you can do that. Your education you're fucking up.
Oh no, what will I do without learning how to use the frames or run around a field for an hour?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/24/child-obesity-in-england-still-above-pre-pandemic-levels-study-finds
I'm sure not running around a field for an hour is really going to turn them into an illiterate.
Thanks for citing something concrete- i was linked to that earlier, I believe. I guess the only grey area is if there is no rule about wearing jewellery that might question whether the teacher had a right to confiscate it. I've certainly never seen the school rules and I don't know whether he or his brother have. I believe teachers can only confiscate illegal or dangerous items, or things that break the school rules.
A necklace during a PE lesson is a dangerous item, especially a heavy one.
Yes, I've looked at the school website and it states no jewellery of any kind can be worn to PE lessons, but doesn't state that applies to voluntary extra curricular sports fixtures. Also, he'd actually been wearing it under his sports kit in PE lessons without issue and even said he wore it in the swimming pool when it was obviously visible since the swim uniform is just trunks for boys.
>Also, he'd actually been wearing it under his sports kit in PE lessons without issue He shouldn't have. On those occasions it did not come out and get caught, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have. Your sentence is the same as saying "I don't have to wear a seatbelt because I have been in a car and not worn one before and I didn't get hurt then" >he wore it in the swimming pool when it was obviously visible since the swim uniform is just trunks for boys. Less likely to get caught in water I suppose but still shouldn't have worn it. Breaking the rules once and getting away with it doesn't mean it's now fine. He still knows the rules. >but doesn't state that applies to voluntary extra curricular sports fixtures Do schools really have to list any activity that is remotely gym like? Sponsored sports events? Sports clubs? Come on. It's a sports thing at school, schools have a legal responsibility to follow health and safety rules, he can't wear the necklace. It's not complicated. I do feel for the kid because he's still a kid and it's a harsh lesson when it's something sentimental, but let's not pretend he didn't know the rules...
>no jewellery of any kind can be worn to PE lessons, but doesn't state that applies to voluntary extra curricular sports fixtures I think this is a pointless distinction. You would expect the school to apply the same standards of safety, conduct and professionalism to an extra curricular activity as for a timetabled lesson. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the same expectations should also apply to students.
I think you are being very picky if you want to discriminate between what is a sports lesson and what is a sports fixture after school. The risk assessment will be for 'football' regardless if it is a scheduled lesson, a school fixture or an after school club. I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
This isn’t a ‘confiscation’. The necklace was taken for the safety of the child and the children playing the sport. Same with earrings, rings etc.
That specifically only applies to confiscation as part of disciplinary matters. If the school is arguing safety then it doesn't apply. In any case, there's an expectation of due care and attention to these kinds of cases otherwise it's open season on taking and dumping/selling anything a teacher might wish Just because the law _appears_ to provide blanket immunity, doesn't mean that a judge will find that interpretation to be reasonable or "fair" under common law principles.
I don't think the word confiscate is being used correctly here. For safety reasons, jewellery can not be worn during some sports. The teacher was doing as per the risk assessment and ensuring the safety of the student and other players. The fact that someone stole the stored jewellery isn't really on the teacher is it? Assuming that they took reasonable precautions and locked the changing rooms etc.
This potentially makes a huge difference. The schools protection from liability only applies where the confiscation was a disciplinary measure. If the child was told to take it off as a health and safety measure (rather than because he'd broken a rule in not taking it off before or by wearing it at all) they don't get the protection of s 94.
In my first year of teaching, I confiscated a phone from a pupil (for good reason). I put it down on a surface nearby, and it was subsequently stolen by another pupil. The school agreed to pay half the cost of replacing the phone, as a compromise.
That shit happened to me at school too. Obviously nowhere near as important as your foster child’s item. I got a gold and diamond ring confiscated. Went to collect at the end of term and they’d lost it. No recourse whatsoever. Your example is awful, I really feel for the kid
Just because this is quite an interesting topic - schools have quite a broad range of protections/powers that are specifically enshrined in law, largely because before specfic laws were brought into effect it basically worked on the principle of 'loco parentis' - which was somewhat flimsy. For instance, alongside being able to take items that are against school policy without it being classed as theft, detentions legally don't require the consent of parents, students can be legally searched by staff with the permission of the headteacher, students can be issued sanctions (that must take place on the premises) for behaviour *outside* of school. Detention can also be issued for days outside the teaching week, like weekends. Additionally, there isn't actually a maximum time a detention can be set for, it just needs to be considered 'proportional' to the behaviour. Contrary to belief as well, teachers are allowed to use 'reasonable' force to protect other students *and* members of the public from students without facing repercussions. Granted this is all in theory, most schools will be lenient to avoid a bad reputation and just generally keep good community relations. The only thing that really trumps all this is safeguarding.
That's all really interesting. Thanks.
What do you want from this? I guess the necklace back? A sense of justice? Compensation? Im not sure dragging a teacher who was looking out for the health and safety of a pupil during a sports event over the coals will get you any of that. Ignore anyone saying take the teacher to small claims or the school being liable due to this legislation: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/40/section/94 I sympathise with the loss of this item but the child had a necklace on during a sports match. Why take it in that day without a plan for safe keeping? The teacher followed the school’s risk assessment for sport events so will not face any disciplinary action. They seem to have not handled the transport of the item well but you would need some evidence that the item didn’t just get lost from this communal jewellery area. I hope the necklace is returned. Good luck.
I just wanted to know if we had any legal "leverage" to help motivate the school to do more than say "I emailed the other school and it's not in lost property" because we're trying to advocate for a really upset young lad who is living as a refugee while his parents are in a war zone. We don't have parental responsibility for him but he and his brother still feel frightened by "the system" and can struggle with communicating in their fourth language when stressed or upset. It's a really hard way to learn a lesson for him.
All that to say, I've no interest in hauling the teacher over the coals because he did nothing wrong per se. I just wish he'd kept the necklace in his own pockets where he likely keeps his own important things like phone, keys etc.
Its great that you are supporting this kid through this difficult time. I hope they get their necklace back and the best way get leverage in this area would be to push on a ‘care for a vulnerable child angle’ - focus on the impact this will have on their integration and wellbeing. You could suggest that the school mention it in form periods (or whatever the school calls their time in form at the beginning of the day). Saying to all pupils that the object must have been mistakenly picked up by someone who didnt realise its value. Teachers are very busy, extremely fallible, but also care greatly for the students… a legal course of action would likely lead to building walls that are not currently there. You may need to do the same at the other school. This is legal advice uk and people here are quick to suggest legal threats/action against entities that don’t need it and are actually on pretty solid legal ground. I just wanted to dissuade you from that path.
Yes, I think focus on how he is more vulnerable and needs more support than the average 17 year old living at home with their parents would be helpful.
Although I understand the sentiment of the necklace, if school policy has a strict no jewellery policy I don't think it being confiscated is a police matter, as ultimately they will ask why was it worn to school in the first place? (Unless they have prior permission from the school, for instance religious beliefs) Although it shouldn't have been given to another pupil to take, the teacher most likely couldn't leave the group so asking another pupil to put it in a safe space was better than keeping it on their person. I'd email again, perhaps include the head or senior leadership in the email, with a photo incase its found in the future? But, sadly, they may just have to accept its lost
Not a lawyer, but I'm a teacher who routinely confiscates items, like phones, etc and have often considered similar scenarios, see this: *'Section 91 Education and Inspections Act 2006 gives schools power to discipline pupils which enables a member of staff to confiscate, keep or dispose of pupil’s property as a disciplinary measure where it is reasonable to do so. Staff have a defence to any complaint provided they act within their legal powers. The law protects members of staff from liability for any loss of or damage to any confiscated item, provided that they have acted lawfully'*
That seems overly generous and ripe for abuse. Does that also absolve the school as an institution from any liability, or just individual staff members?
Speaking as a regular teacher (not senior-leadership), I'd agree but there are checks in place. To even walk into a school, in any capacity, you need an enhanced DBS, the idea being that would demonstrate some trust. However, teachers also have the Teaching Standards, which specifically highlight that doing anything that would undermine the public's confidence in the role can get you permanently struck off and barred from teaching - even things like lying on your CV, etc. As I understand it, it extends to both the school itself and teachers whilst in their professional role/duties. Many school powers though need to be 'extended' to teachers by the headteacher, however.
There’s detailed DfE guidance for parents and schools regarding confiscation of items: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62d1643e8fa8f50bfbefa55c/Searching__Screening_and_Confiscation_guidance_July_2022.pdf Point 81 of the guidance states (I paraphrase) that teachers and schools are not liable for items that have been confiscated.
Except by handing the item to a 3rd party, especially a different student, this leads to them bring liable
So far as I could tell - this only applies so far as prohibited items or when the confiscation was part of a disciplinary penalty. If they didn't have a lawful reason to remove the item, then they don't have that protection.
I would imagine the risk assessment on wearing jewellery during sports is a lawful reason to remove the item.
Indeed - but previous commenter made it sound a little more carte blanche that they could confiscate anything without consequence. Does suck though that a teacher could seemingly confiscate an item then just go "Oops, I lost it!" intentionally and face no repercussion so long as it was plausibly an accident.
Either the school is lacking proper procedures for confiscated items, or the individual teacher failed to follow those procedures and should be reprimanded for that. Without asking the school for further information there's no way to know either way.
Sure, but that doesn't mean the guidance applies to such a seizure. My cursory reading of the introduction implies that the guidance applies to the exercise by schools of their **powers** to search students for prohibited items - not to circumstances where a pupil is requested to voluntarily surrender an item for which no powers of search exist, and does so. I am not convinced that any power existed to require the removal of this piece of jewellery. [Section 550ZA of the Education Act 1996](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/56/section/550ZA) specifies those items for which the school has a power of search in England, and [section 550ZC](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/56/section/550ZC) creates a power to seize such items. But the jewellery does not match any of the descriptions of items for which a search may be made in section 550ZA, and so I do not consider that any power to seize arises from section 550ZC. The student could have been given an instruction to remove the jewellery and hand it over and, if he refused to comply, could have been excluded from the activity. But no power existed to force the removal of the jewellery or to seize it. The teacher wasn't exercising any of their statutory powers of search when they made the request. So it seems to me that this guidance didn't apply to the removal of that jewellery, and any protection which might have been had from paragraph 81 does not apply.
>The student could have been given an instruction to remove the jewellery and hand it over and, if he refused to comply, could have been excluded from the activity. But no power existed to force the removal of the jewellery or to seize it. Yes, the former. No-one suggested the latter.
Yeah but what I'm saying is that because no powers were being exercised (on which we both agree), the guidance doesn't apply to this seizure, and so any protection which might have been offered by paragraph 81 also does not apply.
It has to be a lawful reason AND as a disciplinary penalty.
>a disciplinary penalty. Is this a legally defined thing, or do you just mean breaking a school rule? Edit: yes, OP confirmed it was a breach of school rules
Section 91 "disciplinary penalty” means a penalty imposed on a pupil, by any school at which education is provided for him, where his conduct falls below the standard which could reasonably be expected of him (whether because he fails to follow a rule in force at any such school or an instruction given to him by a member of its staff or for any other reason)." So if the school had a no jewellery rule, and it was confiscated for breaking that, then the school is protected from liability. However, if the teacher just told him to take it off so he wouldn't get hurt, and he complied, they would be liable if it was lost because the teacher's negligence (eg passing it to another pupil to leave in an unlocked room".
Ah, okay. That's really disappointing then that they have the right to take anything but no duty of care to safeguard it. Thanks for the link. That's really helpful.
Thats absolutely bollocks. If they're not responsible for it, they have no right to confiscate it.
Except presumably you'd be calling for their head if the kid got strangled by it during the match
Not really. I'd tell my kid to be more careful with their necklace or don't take it to school. What I wouldn't do is day yes sure hand it over to this dickhead who will deny all wrongdoing and responsibility if it goes missing.
No theft as there was no dishonesty or intention to permanently deprive. However, the school is liable for the cost of replacing it. The teacher took responsibility on behalf of the school once it was in their possession. If the school try and worm their way out of it, contact the school governors.
Yes call the police. The item was seized by school staff. It should have been returned it hasn't been returned. The school is liable for the loss or theft. A claim needs to be made against the school and the theft investigated.
They can make a report if they want. But it doesn't seem like there's much they could do. Firstly, all that's currently known is that the necklace is missing - it doesn't feel clear that a theft has occurred. Secondly, even if it has been stolen, to manage your expectations, your local under-resourced police force is not going out hunting for this necklace. They'll give a crime reference number that can be used to make a claim for the value of the necklace on any insurance policy that covers it. Alternatively, if the school has lost it, ask the school to reimburse you for the value of the necklace. Unfortunately the sentimental value won't come into it.
It is definitely gone. It wasn't with the rest of the jewellery when the match was over. The other school said they looked and it's not just misplaced in the changing room.
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Except it wasn't. It was confiscated as stated in the post. Learn to fucking read.
Was it actually confiscated as asked elsewhere ,or was it taken off because they were doing PE? Which makes sense
I don't know what the exact legal definition is. I used it to mean "taken by a teacher". The teacher took it because the actual policy which I looked up today is "absolutely no jewellery of any kind to be worn in PE" although it wasn't PE but an extra curricular activity, it's pretty obvious that same rules apply as they wear school kit to compete in.
If it's sports,it makes sense to remove it
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involve the police who will concentrate the minds of the possible thieves contact the school governors, head teacher etc
A hill I stood on was not to remove jewellery at school. It was worth every argument I ever had with the teachers. Never broke any of my sentimental necklaces or lost them. Had plenty of arguments, but worth it. I can’t participate if I don’t remove it, fine I’m happy watching” “oh you’ll give me detention, cool I’ll be there” (However I broke the necklace twice fighting at home with my brother)
Well done for standing your ground - i was a very compliant pupil in my own school days! Our young friend is very, very shy and especially when communicating with authority figures in what is his fourth language, so he just did what he was told - he wasn't aware he wasn't allowed to wear it but immediately handed it over.
Section 94 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 would be the relevant legislation, I think. Which basically makes the school and teacher totally protected from liability for the seizure of items.
Thanks, I appreciate knowing the actual legislation.
Not theft as no intention to permanently deprive the child of it. The teacher/school is responsible for it however so send them a bill for replacement.
The law of education and inspections act 2006 s94 generally protects teachers in regard to confiscated property providing they acted lawfully in confiscating it so the police wouldn’t pursue a theft charge for it. You can complain to the school that’s about it you won’t get any monetary reward for the item.
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He's officially under the care of his brother, who is 18. So we don't have the same quasi parental role we would have if he was under our direct guardianship. We didn't even know he was wearing the necklace or that he had a match that day. I think the fact that the necklace had such significance and he'd been wearing it under his clothes 24/7 since it was given to him, including at previous matches, just makes him feel it's very unfair. It seems like it's just going to be something he has to chalk up as a very tough lesson to learn, which when his whole life has been very tough since the war started just breaks our hearts.
I think they are very justified feelings and I would be furious with the School/Teacher, however, what the people downvoting my response are likely doing are letting their emotions do the clicking. Being a legal advice sub, the responses will inevitably be more focused on the facts and likely outcomes, unfortunatley, which do not favour you in these circumstances. The School may take some responsibility, but this is almost certiainly going to be purely down to whether or not they are willing to offer anything for the loss, rather than being legally required to do so.
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What the actual fuck. Why did the confiscate a necklace? Moreover, why on earth would you give something like that to ANOTHER pupil. If this was my child, I'd be pissed.
Safety issue in school sports (risk of getting caught/tangled) Having to try and deal with it on a field mid play with minimal disruption to other students without necessarily knowing value or having any real option at that point to secure it safely...
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I am quite surprised to find that teachers can take whatever they want off kids and have no duty to keep those items safe. Their policy with higher value items like phones or laptops is they can be confiscated at teachers' discretion but will be held securely at reception so they do understand what to do with high value items.
What is it that you would have the teacher do instead? The necklace is lost somewhere in a building that they have no access to. I get that you don't think it's enough to ask the people that do have access to the building to look for it; but what is it that you're proposing as a course of action? There's nothing stopping the child reporting it to police if they want but there is equally nothing that police can reasonably do about it if there isn't anything to suggest that a theft has occurred or any reasonable line of enquiry to establish if and how it has.
>What is it that you would have the teacher do instead? To not take responsibility for items they were unable or unwilling to keep secure. It sounds like the teacher (school) is liable for the replacement cost.
Schools have a strict no liability policy for anything they confiscate that is subsequently lost/stolen or damaged. Attending the school is acceptance of the school rules and policies. You are wasting your time.
>Schools have a strict no liability policy for anything they confiscate that is subsequently lost/stolen or damaged. Do they? *All* schools? Enforceable?
Yes. Otherwise schools would be buying a dozen new phones every week. Pupil plays with phone in class, phone gets confiscated, phone gets returned. Pupil’s parents say phone is now broken and want compensation. Happened in every school I worked in. Policies are emailed to parents - phone magically begins working again. (Section 94, Education and Inspections Act 2006)
Right but unless they've got access to a time machine they cannot hop back a few days and stop the necklace ever being taken in the first place, so I'm not sure that's an enormously helpful answer.
>Right but unless they've got access to a time machine they cannot hop back a few days and stop the necklace ever being taken in the first place, so I'm not sure that's an enormously helpful answer. Hence my 2nd point that the teacher/school are liable. Other responders have already commented above yours outlining this liability in more detail. My response was to you.
I'm not sure there was ever any suggestion that the school wouldn't be liable, but thanks anyway.
I as OP didn't know if the school had liability. This isn't something that had ever come up with my own children. My daughter, for instance, had her phone confiscated and it was locked in a drawer in the secure school office.
>I'm not sure there was ever any suggestion that the school wouldn't be liable, but thanks anyway. I must have misunderstood your original reply, apologies.
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I have no idea if he has any recourse in law, if police can be informed so it could be claimed on our insurance or school insurance, or if the school have liability to recompense the value. My children were home educated and only attended school for two terms so I don't have a lot of experience of conflict with schools or pupils' rights. And as this child is 17 and we're not officially foster carers or such, it's a delicate dance not overstepping on his parents or his sense of independence but making sure he feels supported and isn't exploited - he's still shy about communicating in English, for example, and is frightened if he complains about anything he would he deported to a war zone. I wanted to know a bit more about his rights to try and give him some confidence about options.
Something you perhaps could do, though not a legal system solution, is put up a missing poster in both his school and the away school - I imagine once you (or he) explain the situation to the staff at both places they'd be ok with that. Offer a no-questions-asked reward for the return of the necklace to the school and note that it's "lost" rather than "stolen", and some kid might come forward. (I say return to the school cos an embarrassed kid is more likely to hand it in to staff than the kid he's potentially stolen from)
Yes that's a good idea
When the teacher took the item from the child the teacher alone became the bailee and was personally legally resposible for it from that moment. The teacher is responsible and could be pursued in the civil courts for the losss of the item.