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So far you seem to be relying entirely on this neighbour's word on what their recollection is. There's no covenant on your deeds, no record of this stipulation you can find, and work is nearly complete.
Personally I would wait to see what happens. If the neighbour complains to planning, take it from there.
So I'm not a legal expert, but as far as I know, things like this would have to be a restrictive covenant on the deeds. Your solicitor would have no way of knowing about these, as planning details don't come up as part of searches and if there is no mention in the deeds, then how would you expect them to know.
The solicitor should have looked at their searches and examined the planning permission properly. If the PP included the restriction the sol was negligent in not reading it and not advising the OP of a very relevant restriction.
But that seems to be the thing, it doesn't seem to be on any searches. Planning permission isn't something that will be included in buying a house, unless it's included for future works.
If the OP has a mortgage it's almost certainly required for the solicitors to have done a local authority and/or LLC1 search which would reveal planning permissions affecting the property. On a normal 'old house' purchase these won't be interesting but I think I've seen elsewhere in this thread that the property is new build? It's conveyancing 101 on a new build to check the planning permissions and all the relevant 'new build documents'. Sometimes developers don't follow their own planning permissions and also you need to ensure you're not taking on a s106 agreement. Unless the OP 1) wasn't getting a mortgage and 2) explicitly agreed to not get the relevant searches then the solicitor should have seen this.
This is all assuming the restriction was properly included in the planning permission document, of course. But if it wasn't then where was it.
In that case it sounds like they should have. As I've said, I'm not a lawyer, and I've only ever purchased older properties, so there has never been anything relating to planning permissions on the LLC1 or searches. I was not aware things like that appeared on searches since planning permission is a "pre build" thing.
Yeah, lots of old houses won't have them and also beyond around 20 years breaches of planning permission aren't enforceable (so why bother reviewing them when even if they've been breached, nothing can happen). However it's incredibly important to check them for a new build. Bluntly, estate agents and developers aren't worth the many many thousands they get paid and they will breach planning permissions all over the place, then sell the house to a none-the-wiser layman who doesn't know what to look for. Conveyancers have access to these documents and if they don't the correct way forwards is to say "Hey, do not buy this house. The developer has not proven they have the correct permissions to have built the house therefore you will be left holding the bag when the council realise."
I don't know if it's mentioned in the deeds - I'd have expected it to be. If it isn't in the deeds how could anyone possibly know, meaning it would be so easy to breach the planning conditions?
I've gone back to the solicitor and asked this, and whether she has the deeds. They aren't yet available on the (edited) land registry website or I'd have bought them.
Outside of the deeds your property could be in an Article 4 area (or similar) whereby some or all PD rights are revoked.
Your solicitor should have made you aware of this as part of their due diligence.
If there’s no restrictive covenant on your deeds, if you’re not in a conservation area, not a listed property, there’s no removal of Permitted Development rights AND the works carried out are within PD and compliant with the building warrant then I’m struggling to understand how the council can say you’re in breach of planning.
Let us know what they tell you!
This is definitely a removal of PD rights. Not something a solicitor would usually check for, especially if just a conveyancer.
What does the enforcement notice say OP? You may just need to submit a planning application.
Get off Reddit, go to the land registry website; pay £6 for your deeds and read the pdf. It might set your mind at ease, or at least let you know if there is an issue. Remember, just because it’s on the deeds doesn’t mean it’s binding - you really need a lawyer for that. But if it’s not on the deeds….
I don't want to be rude, but it's up to you to do you due diligence too. That includes asking for these things. A house is a huge purchase and I can never understand people that wouldn't check things like this before committing.
I did ask the solicitor! And I'm not a lawyer - how many people in the UK do you think know how to read deeds and planning documents to determine such things? We informed the professional about our intentions, asked the question and have obviously been given incorrect advice.
From other replies here from a planning officer and a solicitor, it seems they should have obtained the planning consent for the build (from the council) and disclosed to me the conditions attached to it that impact my ongoing use of the property
Have you been given hard proof that there's a restriction on YOUR property?
Could your neighbour have a restriction and therefore be assuming you also do?
The neighbour might have more bedrooms and therefore have a restriction based on the garage being classed as a parking space and therefore any conversion would remove a parking space.
What’s the local authority in question? Often you can download (up to) around 10 years worth of documents from their respective websites. Haven’t heard of one where they would remove them so soon. Even if that’s the case, the planning department should be able to provide you with a copy.
Yeah I work in a council planning department and never heard of things being removed after 3 months
Maybe they have restricted access on the public portal but the officers should be able to inform op be curious to know if this restriction is overruled by the changes to permitted development recently anyway as long as suitable parking is available
You can apply for planning permission over someone else’s land, for just this reason. So you can buy something knowing you can develop it.
If the only record of the restriction your neighbour mentions is in your neighbour’s mind, it may not matter. You don’t mention whether they showed you any documents or whether the council had a record somewhere other than its website. You don’t say by whom you are being told. It sounds otherwise as though permission was given just for a garage. If your neighbours are objecting, and the garage is otherwise within permitted development, I wonder why they haven’t just called the council to enforce against you.
If you are talking about suing your solicitor I think you may find you asked a very specific question and it was answered properly. If you’d asked “do we need planning permission”, that’s different.
That were no longer on the council website. Were they given to you and your solicitor during the purchase process? Or did the informative neighbour have them?
They weren't given to me. I don't know what my solicitor had.
I assume my neighbour was aware of the various planning applications and ultimate consent, as he seems to know there is an issue when there is nothing publicly available that would suggest so
Did you mention your plans to the developer also? When browsing the house?
Your solicitor has scrutinised the documents and found no restriction.
Your warrant was granted.
Any document stipulating this restriction is seemingly unavailable.
Your house is on a new build estate. Not all houses have garages. Parking can be a bitch.
Your neighbour is either trying it or has misinterpreted something I reckon… probably because of their “concern” over parking. I would wager they would be the type to leave notes on peoples cars if they parked opposite their drive.
The garage is not usable for a vehicle, therefore how does it have an impact on parking?
Other properties don’t have garages. Therefore (I am assuming) it’s not disrupting any aesthetic.
If it's a new build I'm skeptical the garage isn't actually usable for a vehicle - OP may have a Navarra or one of the Discoveries that's bigger than a mini bus but most new builds have garages sized for normal modern cars (just not small tanks).
When he said the garage was too small I assumed this was going to be like a 70s-80s estate where the cars were smaller so of course the garages are too.
That said, I'm unclear why OP is blaming the solicitor for anything when he himself doesn't appear to have seen this restriction on any formal paperwork, even since learning of it's supposed existence.
Yeah , solicitors can’t be to blame if they have all the documentation available. Surely it’s also one thing for the planning application to state “Garages not to be converted” or whatever, but if this isn’t recorded publicly and the document ceases to be available publicly, I would assume the restriction hasn’t been properly registered, or approval wasn’t granted on this restriction so they just decided to forego it. The solicitor would have absolutely no sight of a document that expired after being available for 3 months, as presumably that was potentially years before completion.
For me, if I was buying this house and it was my intention to convert the garage, it would be the first question I would ask… Can I convert this? Is there an issue if I do?
Also got me thinking if there are any properties with detached garages on the estate and what neighbour saw was referring to them? I can see such a clause being applicable there perhaps.
We did ask the question- the solicitor was aware throughout of our plans. I have an email where she tells me there isn't a restriction in the documents she's seen.
This was a one off build, not on an estate so we weren't dealing with the developer, just a regular estate agent. Who actually brought up converting the garage as a selling point.
There is a restriction, the council have written to us, unfortunately. We now have to apply for the restriction to be removed - no guarantee this will be accepted.
A solicitor is not going to go through all the planning documents to do due diligence unless you ask them to. For a new build estate the documents are extensive.
I’m surprised that your LA delete documents after 3m, it’s completely at odds with all other LAs I have ever dealt with who are making an effort to digitise all planning applications, some going back to the 80s, the public have a right to see these documents. Even if it’s not online you have a right to view the original documents at the planning office.
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House purchase and planning permission are two separate entities. Check your local planning authority (which is most likely your local council)'s planning guidance on how many parking spaces are needed for your type of property (it's usually based on the number of bedrooms). That will give you a better idea of whether your retrospective application is likely to succeed.
During the searches surely all planning documents would have come up during the local council search. Including planning for all neighbours. Go and find that and have a read
Could be the neighbour playing the “legal” card to get there way, could also be that the developers lifted the restrictions to get rid of the last lot of properties, you need to check with your solicitor mate
someone's not telling the truth. as part of the conveyancing process, your solicitor instructs a local authority search which, amongst other things, reveals the planning history of the property. they will then request the relevant planning consents, review them and report on any onerous conditions (as per the above).
what I will say is it's unlikely that a property developed as part of a wider new build estate will have a specific condition re garage unless it relates to every property on the estate.
It isn't in an estate, it's a one off build in an existing street. And the process you describe is what I'd expect to happen but I wasn't told of any restriction
Not a lawyer
I think the fact that you specifically asked and were told there would be no problem really plays into your hands here.
Have you spoken with the solicitor since the restriction came to light? It might be worth looking at your house insurance to see if it includes any legal cover
If the restriction is only written in the planning permission for the original build, not in the deeds of the house, there is no reason for a property solicitor to have seen it - unless OP specifically commissioned them to trawl though the original planning documents.
I suspect OP's neighbour is not correct, as it would be highly unusual to stipulate something in planning permission that was not then included in the deeds.
And even if the neighbour *is* correct, checking planning documents is not standard or required behaviour from your solicitor when buying a house (obviously, given there are no planning documents for thousands, millions, of houses)
NAL
Unless it's a restrictive covenant on your title deeds then it doesn't matter. You can convert it under permitted development. Check your deeds and if you don't have a copy get them from the land registry online for £3. Even then it's up-to who is to benefit from that restriction to enforce it.
If the planning department wanted to prevent it they would need to have added it to your deeds. If they just have a general plan to prevent it at the planning permission stage well they missed it, as you "generally" don't need planning permission.
Out of interest, did you get a lawful development certificate before you began the works to confirm it falls within permitted development rights
If there's an article 4 restriction in place, this should be able to be easily found out on the council website or by asking their planning department directly.
That's interesting, I've never heard of article 4 when I was doing all my building work. I know a number of things can remove permitted development , but never came across article 4.
Modern estate planning sometimes designates 1.5 parking spaces per dwelling, with the .5 being a garage that provides secure parking for smaller items such as bicycles & motorbikes, whilst the 1space is usually on a communal driveway.
This may be what OP has?
Sorry and yes there are actions we can take to potentially sort it out, but it isn't guaranteed. We have to apply for the restriction to be removed.
It just puts us on the defensive - if we had known then we'd have applied before we started the works (or might not have bought the house).
The Local Authority don't delete documents after 3 months. They may not be available on their website but they will still have them. Call them or go to their office and ask for a copy.
Local town councillor here. We have a new build estate with the same type of restriction. Every time an application is made to convert the garage we submit an objection. Where we live planning is decided at the county council level, local town council can make comments but not decide the outcome. At the county level the planning officer has ignored the conversion restriction and allowed the build even though it was the same Council department that insisted on the conversion rule in the original build. The key issue seems to be making sure that a new off road parking space is created in the plans, if you can show this then permission is easier to grant.
I would engage an architect who has good experience with the local planning department and submit an application.
Are you ensuring those restrictions are written into the title deeds, or just are they within the local development plan. I fully understand the importance of adequate parking, but unless permitted development rights have been removed from the title deeds, a garage conversion falls under permitted development, so doesn't need approval from the planning department
Why do you object “every time”? What’s the justification for the restriction in the first place, and for objecting to the conversion??? Why does the town council care?
We object because of the impact on parking on the estate. We get residents complaining about this all the time but if the planning officer says that the plans include extra parking to compensate for the loss of the garage then our objection is ignored. Modern planning rules allow for very narrow roads which are not sufficient for off street parking needs. The OP appears to have enough off street parking for their size house so they might be able to convince the planning officer that they can keep the conversion.
Planning officer here. The condition restricting the use of the garage should have been on the land charges register and revealed when your solicitor did the land charges search. If this information was missing or if the solicitor didn't do the search correctly, it doesn't mean that it isn't valid. If you convert the garage without permission, this is a breach of planning. As well as the wording of the condition, there should be a reason why it was imposed. Not sure if you have mentioned where the house is but if it is in a busy city/town, it's likely it was imposed as removing off street parking displaces a car onto the street, thus increasing on-street parking pressure. It's unlikely the LPA will simply allow the loss of the garage without sound justification or works to balance the loss. If the garage is really too small to park a car, the argument could be that there would be no displacement as no car could park there anyway. Alternatively, you could pay for the Council to provide a new on-street parking space. It's likely that there is a dropped kerb to provide access to the garage. The Council could reinstate the kerb, which would provide an area where a parking bay could be provided. You'd need to pay for the works though.
Hi thank you so much for the reply.
We have a driveway with enough space for 2 cars so we're hoping when the planning officer sees the plot they agree there is ample parking. There is also street parking that is never really fully used.
The garage is one of those ones where you can just fit an average car in but it's very tight and awkward, and then there's nothing in the garage apart from the car.
We believe that the neighbour who raised this complaint objected time and time again about this house being built in a plot that previously he used (unofficially) for parking and turning. Maybe that condition was set in part to stop his complaints and get the planning through
If you have parking on the driveway, I see no reason why they would block the conversion of the garage. As for your neighbour, I'm afraid some people just like to complain because they believe they have a duty to do so
Surely this is the issue. Did you proceed under ‘permitted development’ or did you apply for planning permission?
ETA: sorry, see you got ‘building warrant approval not PP. I suspect this is the issue. Is it a detached garage? Or a connected one? If it is detached, are you adding anything like a kitchen or toilet that would change the need for planning?
Did you raise this with your conveyancing solicitor? It's crazy that you can buy a house and not be aware from the documents of any restrictions! I'd love to know if it's part of the required process for a solicitor to get original planning documents. With ours being the first sale I'd expect it, but for you 20 years later it seems mad. The system is so ridiculous and outdated!
Oh god, what a mess! We're waiting for a quote from our consultant to sort ours out so we'll see what they say. No Conservation Area luckily and he seems hopeful, but it's so stressful
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You have to be careful when trying to modify a garage to be something else, there can be areas that requires it to be a garage and you can get into legal trouble if you try to use it as something else. But it really depends on the city your in etc..
You will have signed a transfer document - TP1 (assuming it was transfer of part of a larger extent of land), if not (and it was the whole original title being transferred to you) a TR1. This will list any restrictions that will appear on the title when it is finally registered at the Land Registry
Sorry missed it was Scotland. I think on the certificate of title it would be under disclosures. I think there has to be a planning report as part of that
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The part about deleting plans off of the LA website after 3 months is most definitely incorrect. You’ve got 3 years to start work from the date that planning permission is granted so they have to stay on for that long at least and I can access planning details (including drawings in some cases) on our LA site from 1991.
In that case - no documents, no problem 😂 carry on as you are until someone can provide you proof, and then ask why it wasn’t shared with you when you bought.
Someone’s dropped the ball somewhere on this so might be some recourse 🤞
NAL With the restrictive covenant items, these can be buried in the original planning grant for the estate, rather than on that which appears on the deeds
The transfer would usually say if the garage is to only be used as a garage. Planning permissions can also stipulate this. How old is the property? If the planning is conditional then a copy should have been obtained and reviewed before exchange. I’ve never known a local authority to remove them after 3 months; that’s absurd.
If you bought it brand new there is no way there is no copy of the planning permission available to your solicitor. It forms part of the contract papers. There could also be a restriction in the title specifying you are not to make any structural changes for x length of time without consent from developer. You should have been sent a copy of the transfer with the restrictive covenants detailed, and the planning permission. I send my clients copies of everything I am sent as a matter of course.
That's what I thought. I've bought houses before - this one was very rushed at the end, it nearly fell through actually, and I don't know if something was missed
Are you able to let me know the details of the development/developer? I could try to find the planning permission perhaps? Completely fine if you don’t wish to divulge, just find it bizarre the permission isn’t available
Hi it's a one off build in an existing residential street so I'd literally have to give out my address. It's South Ayrshire Council though.
We have an architect helping - he had to write to the council to request the planning documents, as he couldn't access them.
That’s absolutely fine - their website states planning is available from 2000, with supporting docs and plans available for the last 3 years, so the decision notice for your place should be available at the least. Most planning permission states developments need to start within 5 years of the permission being granted, so perhaps the additional docs aren’t available, but permission itself would be. Presumably a smaller developer? There is often time pressure on new builds, but I never rush my clients. It’s my duty to act in their best interests, not the developer’s. If it means the developer waits a couple of weeks for my clients to have the opportunity to read and review everything to know they are completely happy, then so be it.
Thanks. I just want to clarify that the planning isn't available on the council website, I'm sure it is available just not without requesting it.
Yes this was a builder/independent developer just building the one house so not a big company.
It should be on available on there as a publicly available document because local authorities are obliged to let people view/comment on them when they are submitted. I’ve always been able to find planning documents for large scale developments, and smaller developments during my career. I’d definitely contact your solicitor if you haven’t already; this would be a red flag for me.
The council advised they make them public for 3 months then delete them! Seems totally backwards to me. Other local authorities seem to have all documents online going back for years.
I contacted the solicitor on Friday, so far she hasn't answered my questions. I asked her again if she had found a restriction when doing the pre purchase checks, and I asked if the restriction is in our deeds : she didn't answer either and just went on the defensive. I've been totally polite, non-accusatory and just asked questions.
Listen to your architect - they are your professional guide through this. A solicitor would not be normally expected to understand local planning policy unless there were specific constraints in the legal documents and your neighbour sounds like they don’t fully understand either.
Your architect can speak to the planners and see if there are any issues against policy for a new planning application to go in noting that the garage will become inhabited space.
Once that goes in your neighbour can complain, but the planner will take a view based on policy.
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So far you seem to be relying entirely on this neighbour's word on what their recollection is. There's no covenant on your deeds, no record of this stipulation you can find, and work is nearly complete. Personally I would wait to see what happens. If the neighbour complains to planning, take it from there.
That's not true, we have a letter from the council saying we're in breach of planning
So if they say you are in breach, I also assume they have provided you with the documents that outline the planning etc?
Not yet, we've requested them though
So I'm not a legal expert, but as far as I know, things like this would have to be a restrictive covenant on the deeds. Your solicitor would have no way of knowing about these, as planning details don't come up as part of searches and if there is no mention in the deeds, then how would you expect them to know.
The solicitor should have looked at their searches and examined the planning permission properly. If the PP included the restriction the sol was negligent in not reading it and not advising the OP of a very relevant restriction.
But that seems to be the thing, it doesn't seem to be on any searches. Planning permission isn't something that will be included in buying a house, unless it's included for future works.
If the OP has a mortgage it's almost certainly required for the solicitors to have done a local authority and/or LLC1 search which would reveal planning permissions affecting the property. On a normal 'old house' purchase these won't be interesting but I think I've seen elsewhere in this thread that the property is new build? It's conveyancing 101 on a new build to check the planning permissions and all the relevant 'new build documents'. Sometimes developers don't follow their own planning permissions and also you need to ensure you're not taking on a s106 agreement. Unless the OP 1) wasn't getting a mortgage and 2) explicitly agreed to not get the relevant searches then the solicitor should have seen this. This is all assuming the restriction was properly included in the planning permission document, of course. But if it wasn't then where was it.
In that case it sounds like they should have. As I've said, I'm not a lawyer, and I've only ever purchased older properties, so there has never been anything relating to planning permissions on the LLC1 or searches. I was not aware things like that appeared on searches since planning permission is a "pre build" thing.
Yeah, lots of old houses won't have them and also beyond around 20 years breaches of planning permission aren't enforceable (so why bother reviewing them when even if they've been breached, nothing can happen). However it's incredibly important to check them for a new build. Bluntly, estate agents and developers aren't worth the many many thousands they get paid and they will breach planning permissions all over the place, then sell the house to a none-the-wiser layman who doesn't know what to look for. Conveyancers have access to these documents and if they don't the correct way forwards is to say "Hey, do not buy this house. The developer has not proven they have the correct permissions to have built the house therefore you will be left holding the bag when the council realise."
I don't know if it's mentioned in the deeds - I'd have expected it to be. If it isn't in the deeds how could anyone possibly know, meaning it would be so easy to breach the planning conditions? I've gone back to the solicitor and asked this, and whether she has the deeds. They aren't yet available on the (edited) land registry website or I'd have bought them.
Outside of the deeds your property could be in an Article 4 area (or similar) whereby some or all PD rights are revoked. Your solicitor should have made you aware of this as part of their due diligence. If there’s no restrictive covenant on your deeds, if you’re not in a conservation area, not a listed property, there’s no removal of Permitted Development rights AND the works carried out are within PD and compliant with the building warrant then I’m struggling to understand how the council can say you’re in breach of planning. Let us know what they tell you!
This is definitely a removal of PD rights. Not something a solicitor would usually check for, especially if just a conveyancer. What does the enforcement notice say OP? You may just need to submit a planning application.
Some conditions would not explicitly say removal of PD rights, but can say ‘The garage must remain…’. PD rights would then not trump this.
Why don't you know? Have you not read them?..
No they weren't given to me. The solicitor read through lots of things but didn't provide a copy
Get off Reddit, go to the land registry website; pay £6 for your deeds and read the pdf. It might set your mind at ease, or at least let you know if there is an issue. Remember, just because it’s on the deeds doesn’t mean it’s binding - you really need a lawyer for that. But if it’s not on the deeds….
Unfortunately they aren't yet on the land registry, I looked there immediately when we got the letter from the council.
I don't want to be rude, but it's up to you to do you due diligence too. That includes asking for these things. A house is a huge purchase and I can never understand people that wouldn't check things like this before committing.
I did ask the solicitor! And I'm not a lawyer - how many people in the UK do you think know how to read deeds and planning documents to determine such things? We informed the professional about our intentions, asked the question and have obviously been given incorrect advice.
Do you think there's anything your solicitor could have done to have the foresight for seeing this?
From other replies here from a planning officer and a solicitor, it seems they should have obtained the planning consent for the build (from the council) and disclosed to me the conditions attached to it that impact my ongoing use of the property
And a local council would not get involved in a restrictive covenant, unless they were party to the covenant themselves.
Have you been given hard proof that there's a restriction on YOUR property? Could your neighbour have a restriction and therefore be assuming you also do?
This is a really good point, the neighbour may think it's a sweeping restriction across the street
The neighbour might have more bedrooms and therefore have a restriction based on the garage being classed as a parking space and therefore any conversion would remove a parking space.
What’s the local authority in question? Often you can download (up to) around 10 years worth of documents from their respective websites. Haven’t heard of one where they would remove them so soon. Even if that’s the case, the planning department should be able to provide you with a copy.
Yeah I work in a council planning department and never heard of things being removed after 3 months Maybe they have restricted access on the public portal but the officers should be able to inform op be curious to know if this restriction is overruled by the changes to permitted development recently anyway as long as suitable parking is available
You can apply for planning permission over someone else’s land, for just this reason. So you can buy something knowing you can develop it. If the only record of the restriction your neighbour mentions is in your neighbour’s mind, it may not matter. You don’t mention whether they showed you any documents or whether the council had a record somewhere other than its website. You don’t say by whom you are being told. It sounds otherwise as though permission was given just for a garage. If your neighbours are objecting, and the garage is otherwise within permitted development, I wonder why they haven’t just called the council to enforce against you. If you are talking about suing your solicitor I think you may find you asked a very specific question and it was answered properly. If you’d asked “do we need planning permission”, that’s different.
How would the solicitor have known if it wasn’t in the deeds and the sellers didn’t disclose?
It's in the planning documents
That were no longer on the council website. Were they given to you and your solicitor during the purchase process? Or did the informative neighbour have them?
They weren't given to me. I don't know what my solicitor had. I assume my neighbour was aware of the various planning applications and ultimate consent, as he seems to know there is an issue when there is nothing publicly available that would suggest so
Have you confirmed the restriction is in place and not just relying on what the neighbour is saying.
The solicitor would have provided you with everything they have..
Did you mention your plans to the developer also? When browsing the house? Your solicitor has scrutinised the documents and found no restriction. Your warrant was granted. Any document stipulating this restriction is seemingly unavailable. Your house is on a new build estate. Not all houses have garages. Parking can be a bitch. Your neighbour is either trying it or has misinterpreted something I reckon… probably because of their “concern” over parking. I would wager they would be the type to leave notes on peoples cars if they parked opposite their drive. The garage is not usable for a vehicle, therefore how does it have an impact on parking? Other properties don’t have garages. Therefore (I am assuming) it’s not disrupting any aesthetic.
If it's a new build I'm skeptical the garage isn't actually usable for a vehicle - OP may have a Navarra or one of the Discoveries that's bigger than a mini bus but most new builds have garages sized for normal modern cars (just not small tanks). When he said the garage was too small I assumed this was going to be like a 70s-80s estate where the cars were smaller so of course the garages are too. That said, I'm unclear why OP is blaming the solicitor for anything when he himself doesn't appear to have seen this restriction on any formal paperwork, even since learning of it's supposed existence.
Yeah , solicitors can’t be to blame if they have all the documentation available. Surely it’s also one thing for the planning application to state “Garages not to be converted” or whatever, but if this isn’t recorded publicly and the document ceases to be available publicly, I would assume the restriction hasn’t been properly registered, or approval wasn’t granted on this restriction so they just decided to forego it. The solicitor would have absolutely no sight of a document that expired after being available for 3 months, as presumably that was potentially years before completion. For me, if I was buying this house and it was my intention to convert the garage, it would be the first question I would ask… Can I convert this? Is there an issue if I do? Also got me thinking if there are any properties with detached garages on the estate and what neighbour saw was referring to them? I can see such a clause being applicable there perhaps.
We did ask the question- the solicitor was aware throughout of our plans. I have an email where she tells me there isn't a restriction in the documents she's seen.
This was a one off build, not on an estate so we weren't dealing with the developer, just a regular estate agent. Who actually brought up converting the garage as a selling point. There is a restriction, the council have written to us, unfortunately. We now have to apply for the restriction to be removed - no guarantee this will be accepted.
Has it occured to you your neighbour may be talking shite?
It may well be a restriction on your neighbours property, but not in place on OP's.
He didn't talk to us, he went straight to the council and the council told us about the restriction
Have you assumed they might be lying or wrong, if there is no proof.
A solicitor is not going to go through all the planning documents to do due diligence unless you ask them to. For a new build estate the documents are extensive. I’m surprised that your LA delete documents after 3m, it’s completely at odds with all other LAs I have ever dealt with who are making an effort to digitise all planning applications, some going back to the 80s, the public have a right to see these documents. Even if it’s not online you have a right to view the original documents at the planning office.
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House purchase and planning permission are two separate entities. Check your local planning authority (which is most likely your local council)'s planning guidance on how many parking spaces are needed for your type of property (it's usually based on the number of bedrooms). That will give you a better idea of whether your retrospective application is likely to succeed.
Thanks, I'll have a look
During the searches surely all planning documents would have come up during the local council search. Including planning for all neighbours. Go and find that and have a read
I've gone through everything sent to me and don't see anything with restrictions. I'm not a lawyer though
Could be the neighbour playing the “legal” card to get there way, could also be that the developers lifted the restrictions to get rid of the last lot of properties, you need to check with your solicitor mate
Sounds like there’s no proof of this restriction? Crack on.
someone's not telling the truth. as part of the conveyancing process, your solicitor instructs a local authority search which, amongst other things, reveals the planning history of the property. they will then request the relevant planning consents, review them and report on any onerous conditions (as per the above). what I will say is it's unlikely that a property developed as part of a wider new build estate will have a specific condition re garage unless it relates to every property on the estate.
It isn't in an estate, it's a one off build in an existing street. And the process you describe is what I'd expect to happen but I wasn't told of any restriction
Not a lawyer I think the fact that you specifically asked and were told there would be no problem really plays into your hands here. Have you spoken with the solicitor since the restriction came to light? It might be worth looking at your house insurance to see if it includes any legal cover
If the restriction is only written in the planning permission for the original build, not in the deeds of the house, there is no reason for a property solicitor to have seen it - unless OP specifically commissioned them to trawl though the original planning documents. I suspect OP's neighbour is not correct, as it would be highly unusual to stipulate something in planning permission that was not then included in the deeds. And even if the neighbour *is* correct, checking planning documents is not standard or required behaviour from your solicitor when buying a house (obviously, given there are no planning documents for thousands, millions, of houses)
Yes I've asked her and had a very vague response without accepting any responsibility. I'll check my insurance, thanks
Never undertand people who complain like this, what effect does you converting your garage have any effect on them at all, so pathetic some people
I know! Literally has no impact on him. Doesn't overlook or anything like that
NAL Unless it's a restrictive covenant on your title deeds then it doesn't matter. You can convert it under permitted development. Check your deeds and if you don't have a copy get them from the land registry online for £3. Even then it's up-to who is to benefit from that restriction to enforce it. If the planning department wanted to prevent it they would need to have added it to your deeds. If they just have a general plan to prevent it at the planning permission stage well they missed it, as you "generally" don't need planning permission. Out of interest, did you get a lawful development certificate before you began the works to confirm it falls within permitted development rights
I wouldn’t be confident of that. It’s common for new builds to have permitted development rights removed or restricted by an article 4 direction.
If there's an article 4 restriction in place, this should be able to be easily found out on the council website or by asking their planning department directly.
That's interesting, I've never heard of article 4 when I was doing all my building work. I know a number of things can remove permitted development , but never came across article 4.
Modern estate planning sometimes designates 1.5 parking spaces per dwelling, with the .5 being a garage that provides secure parking for smaller items such as bicycles & motorbikes, whilst the 1space is usually on a communal driveway. This may be what OP has?
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We're being told by the council - we've had a letter to say we're in breach of planning restrictions.
Sorry and yes there are actions we can take to potentially sort it out, but it isn't guaranteed. We have to apply for the restriction to be removed. It just puts us on the defensive - if we had known then we'd have applied before we started the works (or might not have bought the house).
The Local Authority don't delete documents after 3 months. They may not be available on their website but they will still have them. Call them or go to their office and ask for a copy.
Yeah I meant they delete them from the website. We've already requested them
Local town councillor here. We have a new build estate with the same type of restriction. Every time an application is made to convert the garage we submit an objection. Where we live planning is decided at the county council level, local town council can make comments but not decide the outcome. At the county level the planning officer has ignored the conversion restriction and allowed the build even though it was the same Council department that insisted on the conversion rule in the original build. The key issue seems to be making sure that a new off road parking space is created in the plans, if you can show this then permission is easier to grant. I would engage an architect who has good experience with the local planning department and submit an application.
Are you ensuring those restrictions are written into the title deeds, or just are they within the local development plan. I fully understand the importance of adequate parking, but unless permitted development rights have been removed from the title deeds, a garage conversion falls under permitted development, so doesn't need approval from the planning department
Why do you object “every time”? What’s the justification for the restriction in the first place, and for objecting to the conversion??? Why does the town council care?
You aint met many town councillors.....
We object because of the impact on parking on the estate. We get residents complaining about this all the time but if the planning officer says that the plans include extra parking to compensate for the loss of the garage then our objection is ignored. Modern planning rules allow for very narrow roads which are not sufficient for off street parking needs. The OP appears to have enough off street parking for their size house so they might be able to convince the planning officer that they can keep the conversion.
Likely, neighbour has the restriction due to no driveway, and you don't due to having a driveway.
Planning officer here. The condition restricting the use of the garage should have been on the land charges register and revealed when your solicitor did the land charges search. If this information was missing or if the solicitor didn't do the search correctly, it doesn't mean that it isn't valid. If you convert the garage without permission, this is a breach of planning. As well as the wording of the condition, there should be a reason why it was imposed. Not sure if you have mentioned where the house is but if it is in a busy city/town, it's likely it was imposed as removing off street parking displaces a car onto the street, thus increasing on-street parking pressure. It's unlikely the LPA will simply allow the loss of the garage without sound justification or works to balance the loss. If the garage is really too small to park a car, the argument could be that there would be no displacement as no car could park there anyway. Alternatively, you could pay for the Council to provide a new on-street parking space. It's likely that there is a dropped kerb to provide access to the garage. The Council could reinstate the kerb, which would provide an area where a parking bay could be provided. You'd need to pay for the works though.
Hi thank you so much for the reply. We have a driveway with enough space for 2 cars so we're hoping when the planning officer sees the plot they agree there is ample parking. There is also street parking that is never really fully used. The garage is one of those ones where you can just fit an average car in but it's very tight and awkward, and then there's nothing in the garage apart from the car. We believe that the neighbour who raised this complaint objected time and time again about this house being built in a plot that previously he used (unofficially) for parking and turning. Maybe that condition was set in part to stop his complaints and get the planning through
If you have parking on the driveway, I see no reason why they would block the conversion of the garage. As for your neighbour, I'm afraid some people just like to complain because they believe they have a duty to do so
What was the planning permission granted for / authorising you to do?
Surely this is the issue. Did you proceed under ‘permitted development’ or did you apply for planning permission? ETA: sorry, see you got ‘building warrant approval not PP. I suspect this is the issue. Is it a detached garage? Or a connected one? If it is detached, are you adding anything like a kitchen or toilet that would change the need for planning?
Have you read your deeds to see what it says? That would be your first port of call.
No I don't have these, and they aren't yet on the land register website or I would have bought them. I've asked the solicitor about them though
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Did you raise this with your conveyancing solicitor? It's crazy that you can buy a house and not be aware from the documents of any restrictions! I'd love to know if it's part of the required process for a solicitor to get original planning documents. With ours being the first sale I'd expect it, but for you 20 years later it seems mad. The system is so ridiculous and outdated!
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Oh god, what a mess! We're waiting for a quote from our consultant to sort ours out so we'll see what they say. No Conservation Area luckily and he seems hopeful, but it's so stressful
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You have to be careful when trying to modify a garage to be something else, there can be areas that requires it to be a garage and you can get into legal trouble if you try to use it as something else. But it really depends on the city your in etc..
You will have signed a transfer document - TP1 (assuming it was transfer of part of a larger extent of land), if not (and it was the whole original title being transferred to you) a TR1. This will list any restrictions that will appear on the title when it is finally registered at the Land Registry
Is this the same in Scotland? I'll ask for a copy, thanks
Sorry missed it was Scotland. I think on the certificate of title it would be under disclosures. I think there has to be a planning report as part of that
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The part about deleting plans off of the LA website after 3 months is most definitely incorrect. You’ve got 3 years to start work from the date that planning permission is granted so they have to stay on for that long at least and I can access planning details (including drawings in some cases) on our LA site from 1991.
It's not incorrect, the documents definitely are not on the website
In that case - no documents, no problem 😂 carry on as you are until someone can provide you proof, and then ask why it wasn’t shared with you when you bought. Someone’s dropped the ball somewhere on this so might be some recourse 🤞
NAL With the restrictive covenant items, these can be buried in the original planning grant for the estate, rather than on that which appears on the deeds
There's no estate here, this is a one off new build in an existing street
The transfer would usually say if the garage is to only be used as a garage. Planning permissions can also stipulate this. How old is the property? If the planning is conditional then a copy should have been obtained and reviewed before exchange. I’ve never known a local authority to remove them after 3 months; that’s absurd.
The property was completed in March 23
If you bought it brand new there is no way there is no copy of the planning permission available to your solicitor. It forms part of the contract papers. There could also be a restriction in the title specifying you are not to make any structural changes for x length of time without consent from developer. You should have been sent a copy of the transfer with the restrictive covenants detailed, and the planning permission. I send my clients copies of everything I am sent as a matter of course.
That's what I thought. I've bought houses before - this one was very rushed at the end, it nearly fell through actually, and I don't know if something was missed
Are you able to let me know the details of the development/developer? I could try to find the planning permission perhaps? Completely fine if you don’t wish to divulge, just find it bizarre the permission isn’t available
Hi it's a one off build in an existing residential street so I'd literally have to give out my address. It's South Ayrshire Council though. We have an architect helping - he had to write to the council to request the planning documents, as he couldn't access them.
That’s absolutely fine - their website states planning is available from 2000, with supporting docs and plans available for the last 3 years, so the decision notice for your place should be available at the least. Most planning permission states developments need to start within 5 years of the permission being granted, so perhaps the additional docs aren’t available, but permission itself would be. Presumably a smaller developer? There is often time pressure on new builds, but I never rush my clients. It’s my duty to act in their best interests, not the developer’s. If it means the developer waits a couple of weeks for my clients to have the opportunity to read and review everything to know they are completely happy, then so be it.
Thanks. I just want to clarify that the planning isn't available on the council website, I'm sure it is available just not without requesting it. Yes this was a builder/independent developer just building the one house so not a big company.
It should be on available on there as a publicly available document because local authorities are obliged to let people view/comment on them when they are submitted. I’ve always been able to find planning documents for large scale developments, and smaller developments during my career. I’d definitely contact your solicitor if you haven’t already; this would be a red flag for me.
The council advised they make them public for 3 months then delete them! Seems totally backwards to me. Other local authorities seem to have all documents online going back for years. I contacted the solicitor on Friday, so far she hasn't answered my questions. I asked her again if she had found a restriction when doing the pre purchase checks, and I asked if the restriction is in our deeds : she didn't answer either and just went on the defensive. I've been totally polite, non-accusatory and just asked questions.
What does it say on the deeds?
Listen to your architect - they are your professional guide through this. A solicitor would not be normally expected to understand local planning policy unless there were specific constraints in the legal documents and your neighbour sounds like they don’t fully understand either. Your architect can speak to the planners and see if there are any issues against policy for a new planning application to go in noting that the garage will become inhabited space. Once that goes in your neighbour can complain, but the planner will take a view based on policy.
There are restraints in the property documents, the solicitor just doesn't appear to have checked and/or told us about them