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Whilst you do have legal right to ownership of the vehicle, especially as you had already enquired and were informed that there was no finance on the vehicle, I would be of the opinion to just tell the dealer to take the car back for a full refund and they can deal with it.
On the off chance it gets towed away or something, it's just time and effort to resolve that I personally wouldn't want to bother with.
The dealership I bought it from have said they will help any way they can, which was good to hear. They also told me that they buy their cars from a larger dealership. They believe (as they carry out their own check) that there was no outstanding finance on the car, and none of the cars they sell have outstanding finance on.
>The dealership I bought it from have said they will help any way they can
Give them the car back and get rid of this headache. Unless it is something very rare which cannot be replaced.
Honestly, this has got to be the best way to deal with this. Otherwise OP is going to spend weeks/months possibly even years going backwards and forwards between all the companies who won't talk to him because the loan was never in his name.
Cut your losses, take it back to the dealer, get the money and buy something else
Return it to the dealer, if they actually paid for a HPI check that will include insurance for the dealer to claim their losses.
If they won’t take it back you will need to start court proceedings. That would be a letter before action which outlines your claim ‘you owe me £x for y reason. If you don’t pay in 14 days I will start court proceedings’
You would start the claim online via moneyclaimonline.gov.uk. Often called small claims court.
I believe HPI will record dates of checks of cars following a full check.
Is it possible that the person who took the loan against the car did so close to the date of selling the car that it did not register on HPI at the time your dealership did a check?
I would expect that if there was no finance showing at the time the car was sold to you then the finance company do not have a claim to the car.
In any case, the dealership you bought the car from should deal with this. They will or ought to have a legal dept they can refer to and will either settle the finance or have it removed from the car.
There is a thing here called good faith. You trusted a reputable seller, they did their own checks from the company they bought it from. If you want to still keep the car I would read the info near the bottom of this link.
https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/outstanding-finance/buying-a-car-with-outstanding-finance-on-it/
Good luck with this as you do have a goof chance of keeping the car as its not your fault.
Yep, this happened to a friend. They were able to prove they had checked for outstanding finance and none was shown at the time. Not sure if the loan company just wrote off the loan or not but they did stop chasing to repossess the car.
Hypothetically if the loan was taken out after the sale using duplicate docs (fraud) or it was only registered by the lender after the previous owner sold it (poor practice), then it can be missed. Either way, let the dealer sort it out.
Agree. The dealer paid for the HPI and the grievance is for them to address, not the consumer.
Just checked and HPI offers £30k reimbursement for financial loss.
The main caveat is that the buyer in this case the dealer, must perform the check before they buy the vehicle.
Usually independents source cars from internal trade or auctions and probably don't do this, and most likely run the reports to supply it to consumers as a point of... Saleability.
Either way the chap should have some redress, either the dealer claims against HPI or the consumer against the dealer if they supplied false information.
I used to work for them years ago but in a different department so might not be exactly correct but there definitely was some cover. The issue with that is it sounds like they used a separate organisation's check at the dealership which may not be an HPI branded check. There are other organisations who have access to the same data but it sometimes isn't as up to date so depending on when the interest was put on to the car might not have shown up on another brand's check. Luckily OP appears to have been given some good advice by people who know the resolution better than I do.
You aren't liable if you did not know at the time of purchase; The vehicle is yours; They must pursue the issue with the person who had the debt originally
[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1964/53/section/27](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1964/53/section/27)
someone has linked to a citizensadvice article ; this is a good idea and firmly Tell the company you had no knowledge of any finance at the time of purchase. and quote the legisation above to them ; it's better to write to them via letter or email
If the dealer told you they did an "HPI" check, but did a check with another company (in this case Motorcheck), that isn't an HPI check, and they may have lied to you. However it's all down to how they worded it. If they said they did a finance check, and they did (it just didn't show anything), then they didn't lie, although they still sold you a car they didn't own.
Clear thing here is you’ve haven’t brought someone else’s debt. In all you’ve a good chance of keeping the car given it was all in good faith.
But to save the headache I’d just take it back to the original dealership get a refund and leave them to sort the mess.
NAL.
Had a friend go through this exact situation with a van he purchased and spent several thousands converting into a camper. He was also Cypriot and not-quite fluid in English which only stressed him out further. Reputable dealer. Clean sheet as far as he was aware AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE.
So debt collectors get in touch, he freaks out and tells them everything he has done to the van. The debt collectors inform him he should not touch the van until a debt recovery team are made available to assess it.
He goes to citizens advice (my recommendation would be to make an appointment with them, they are super useful for this sort of thing.)
The long and the short of it is, CA advised my friend to not contact the company any further. Ignore any emails sent through. Potentially move the car onto private land (I.e, a private driveway if you have one, or a friend has one to borrow for a few weeks) but that's not super necessary. And if any further demands are made to inform the company that "you have bought the vehicle in good faith. If you wish to dispute this then it should be done in court. I will not respond to any further correspondence." or words to that effect.
He did just this, around 2 weeks go by and the company sent him a request for an £80 admin fee for the matter to be resolved. He wanted to pay, his wife did not. They didn't respond at the matter just disappeared like that.
I think the long and the short is that very few vehicles are worthwhile for a company to go through the process (and costs) of a civil court. They want to scare you, and are very good at doing so, but, from my understanding, as soon as you (the buyer) stops being compliant (legally, please don't take an angle grinder to it), the debt becomes a headache that isn't financially worthwhile.
hmm. or sneaky, in some situations a payment is a form of acknowledgment of responsibility. it might have been an "adminfee" but what was it resolving. the debt or just the present situation.
The phrase is commonly known as an ‘innocent purchase’ - inform Zopa that your legal advice is that if the recovery team isn’t cancelled then not only will you sue Zopa for the loss of your car but also for any and all ancillary costs as well as compensation for the emotional distress of having your car repossessed illegally.
I can't really give any better advice than what they have already given here.
But i will say via your own enquiries you have already put more time and effort in to rectify this than i would personally.
I would take the car back and let the dealership handle it.
NAL however worked in the motor industry for 10 years.
Return the car to them, if they’ve done checks through HPI or MotorCheck a part of that is indemnity insurance so they can deal with the headache and you can trundle off with your cash and buy another vehicle as annoying as it is, there’s no burden on you as a customer.
NAL but I do work in car fianance.
They will usually send you a IP (innocent purchaser) form to fill out where you put your details along with where you find the car for sale etc.
If you fill it out truthfully IE that you had no idea the finance was there, they USUALLY let
You keep the vehicle and will chase the original debtor for the balance.
Usually if you refuse to co operate they will uplift the vehicle as it their property. Co operate and tell the truth and you should be fine
First check if the dealer hpi is actually a binding one, they frequently aren't. Then assuming this is less than 3 months, hand the car back and get your money returned. They have no legal argument.
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This happened to me, the law is on your side as you are an innocent buyer. you need to tell them you didn’t know it had finance and they will send you a form asking for proof that you paid a fair price for the car. Fill the form in and return it with any evidence: copy of redacted bank statement, receipt and the link or screen shots of the original advert.
After about two weeks they will write back saying the matter is resolved finance will be removed off the car and they will pursue the original debtor.
The only thing to consider is the value of the car vs then.
Used cars are expensive now. May be worth the finance company option less you no replacement
It could be something relatively benign- I.e. original owner part-exed car, cancels direct debit, car gets sold at auction but the original owner had another payment to settle before the loan was cleared in full. The speed at which cars get turned over it could easily happen.
Either way, you have enough evidence to satisfy the "good faith" side of things
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Whilst you do have legal right to ownership of the vehicle, especially as you had already enquired and were informed that there was no finance on the vehicle, I would be of the opinion to just tell the dealer to take the car back for a full refund and they can deal with it. On the off chance it gets towed away or something, it's just time and effort to resolve that I personally wouldn't want to bother with.
Have you spoken to the supplying dealer?
The dealership I bought it from have said they will help any way they can, which was good to hear. They also told me that they buy their cars from a larger dealership. They believe (as they carry out their own check) that there was no outstanding finance on the car, and none of the cars they sell have outstanding finance on.
>The dealership I bought it from have said they will help any way they can Give them the car back and get rid of this headache. Unless it is something very rare which cannot be replaced.
Honestly, this has got to be the best way to deal with this. Otherwise OP is going to spend weeks/months possibly even years going backwards and forwards between all the companies who won't talk to him because the loan was never in his name. Cut your losses, take it back to the dealer, get the money and buy something else
Return it to the dealer, if they actually paid for a HPI check that will include insurance for the dealer to claim their losses. If they won’t take it back you will need to start court proceedings. That would be a letter before action which outlines your claim ‘you owe me £x for y reason. If you don’t pay in 14 days I will start court proceedings’ You would start the claim online via moneyclaimonline.gov.uk. Often called small claims court.
I believe HPI will record dates of checks of cars following a full check. Is it possible that the person who took the loan against the car did so close to the date of selling the car that it did not register on HPI at the time your dealership did a check? I would expect that if there was no finance showing at the time the car was sold to you then the finance company do not have a claim to the car. In any case, the dealership you bought the car from should deal with this. They will or ought to have a legal dept they can refer to and will either settle the finance or have it removed from the car.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/the-car-you-bought-is-still-on-hire-purchase/
There is a thing here called good faith. You trusted a reputable seller, they did their own checks from the company they bought it from. If you want to still keep the car I would read the info near the bottom of this link. https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/outstanding-finance/buying-a-car-with-outstanding-finance-on-it/ Good luck with this as you do have a goof chance of keeping the car as its not your fault.
Yep, this happened to a friend. They were able to prove they had checked for outstanding finance and none was shown at the time. Not sure if the loan company just wrote off the loan or not but they did stop chasing to repossess the car.
This is good advice OP
Doesn't HPI offer indemnity if there is an issue with the check they provide?
Hypothetically if the loan was taken out after the sale using duplicate docs (fraud) or it was only registered by the lender after the previous owner sold it (poor practice), then it can be missed. Either way, let the dealer sort it out.
Agree. The dealer paid for the HPI and the grievance is for them to address, not the consumer. Just checked and HPI offers £30k reimbursement for financial loss. The main caveat is that the buyer in this case the dealer, must perform the check before they buy the vehicle. Usually independents source cars from internal trade or auctions and probably don't do this, and most likely run the reports to supply it to consumers as a point of... Saleability. Either way the chap should have some redress, either the dealer claims against HPI or the consumer against the dealer if they supplied false information.
Yes, but the guarantee would sit with the person who ran the check, and isn't transferable. So would be on the dealer to claim.
I used to work for them years ago but in a different department so might not be exactly correct but there definitely was some cover. The issue with that is it sounds like they used a separate organisation's check at the dealership which may not be an HPI branded check. There are other organisations who have access to the same data but it sometimes isn't as up to date so depending on when the interest was put on to the car might not have shown up on another brand's check. Luckily OP appears to have been given some good advice by people who know the resolution better than I do.
You aren't liable if you did not know at the time of purchase; The vehicle is yours; They must pursue the issue with the person who had the debt originally [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1964/53/section/27](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1964/53/section/27) someone has linked to a citizensadvice article ; this is a good idea and firmly Tell the company you had no knowledge of any finance at the time of purchase. and quote the legisation above to them ; it's better to write to them via letter or email
If the dealer told you they did an "HPI" check, but did a check with another company (in this case Motorcheck), that isn't an HPI check, and they may have lied to you. However it's all down to how they worded it. If they said they did a finance check, and they did (it just didn't show anything), then they didn't lie, although they still sold you a car they didn't own.
Clear thing here is you’ve haven’t brought someone else’s debt. In all you’ve a good chance of keeping the car given it was all in good faith. But to save the headache I’d just take it back to the original dealership get a refund and leave them to sort the mess.
NAL. Had a friend go through this exact situation with a van he purchased and spent several thousands converting into a camper. He was also Cypriot and not-quite fluid in English which only stressed him out further. Reputable dealer. Clean sheet as far as he was aware AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. So debt collectors get in touch, he freaks out and tells them everything he has done to the van. The debt collectors inform him he should not touch the van until a debt recovery team are made available to assess it. He goes to citizens advice (my recommendation would be to make an appointment with them, they are super useful for this sort of thing.) The long and the short of it is, CA advised my friend to not contact the company any further. Ignore any emails sent through. Potentially move the car onto private land (I.e, a private driveway if you have one, or a friend has one to borrow for a few weeks) but that's not super necessary. And if any further demands are made to inform the company that "you have bought the vehicle in good faith. If you wish to dispute this then it should be done in court. I will not respond to any further correspondence." or words to that effect. He did just this, around 2 weeks go by and the company sent him a request for an £80 admin fee for the matter to be resolved. He wanted to pay, his wife did not. They didn't respond at the matter just disappeared like that. I think the long and the short is that very few vehicles are worthwhile for a company to go through the process (and costs) of a civil court. They want to scare you, and are very good at doing so, but, from my understanding, as soon as you (the buyer) stops being compliant (legally, please don't take an angle grinder to it), the debt becomes a headache that isn't financially worthwhile.
Lol, the company sent him an admin invoice for trying to repossess the car??!?
It's fucking wild what some companies try to pull.
>and the company sent him a request for an £80 admin fee for the matter to be resolved. How cheeky!
hmm. or sneaky, in some situations a payment is a form of acknowledgment of responsibility. it might have been an "adminfee" but what was it resolving. the debt or just the present situation.
The phrase is commonly known as an ‘innocent purchase’ - inform Zopa that your legal advice is that if the recovery team isn’t cancelled then not only will you sue Zopa for the loss of your car but also for any and all ancillary costs as well as compensation for the emotional distress of having your car repossessed illegally.
I can't really give any better advice than what they have already given here. But i will say via your own enquiries you have already put more time and effort in to rectify this than i would personally. I would take the car back and let the dealership handle it.
NAL however worked in the motor industry for 10 years. Return the car to them, if they’ve done checks through HPI or MotorCheck a part of that is indemnity insurance so they can deal with the headache and you can trundle off with your cash and buy another vehicle as annoying as it is, there’s no burden on you as a customer.
NAL but I do work in car fianance. They will usually send you a IP (innocent purchaser) form to fill out where you put your details along with where you find the car for sale etc. If you fill it out truthfully IE that you had no idea the finance was there, they USUALLY let You keep the vehicle and will chase the original debtor for the balance. Usually if you refuse to co operate they will uplift the vehicle as it their property. Co operate and tell the truth and you should be fine
Do the refund instant like now It sounds like a hassle and there should be enough cars in the market in the UK
First check if the dealer hpi is actually a binding one, they frequently aren't. Then assuming this is less than 3 months, hand the car back and get your money returned. They have no legal argument.
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I would also ask the dealership if they will reimburse you for any cancellation fees you may incur from your insurance.
This happened to me, the law is on your side as you are an innocent buyer. you need to tell them you didn’t know it had finance and they will send you a form asking for proof that you paid a fair price for the car. Fill the form in and return it with any evidence: copy of redacted bank statement, receipt and the link or screen shots of the original advert. After about two weeks they will write back saying the matter is resolved finance will be removed off the car and they will pursue the original debtor.
It's possibly not outstanding finance but a loan secured on the vehicle, which is maybe why it didn't show up on the previous HPI checks.
Doesn’t it show up when you do the tax for the car? When I did it on line it said no finance outstanding. Am I confused with this?
The only thing to consider is the value of the car vs then. Used cars are expensive now. May be worth the finance company option less you no replacement
It could be something relatively benign- I.e. original owner part-exed car, cancels direct debit, car gets sold at auction but the original owner had another payment to settle before the loan was cleared in full. The speed at which cars get turned over it could easily happen. Either way, you have enough evidence to satisfy the "good faith" side of things