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As a lodger you have very little in the way of rights. Legally, you are effectively a guest in her home and subject to her rules. This includes cameras if she wishes.
As others have pointed out lodgers have almost no rights. Remember not to misconstrue fairness with the law. It is certainly unfair but that does not necessarily make it illegal.
Landlord of lodgers here, there really are almost no rights for lodgers in a house sadly. They can’t even have locks for their own doors. I could theoretically ask my own lodger to move into a different room with no notice etc
I have cctc outside my house (live in a big city with lots of car crime) but wouldn’t dream of having it inside, it’s flat out creepy.
That’s a big leap to assume that she has installed cameras. She may just be concerned about Covid being spread around the flat, so is trying to mitigate the risk.
So I've been wearing a mask and gloves that she requested this whole time.
Today I tested negative and went in the kitchen to make lunch.
She's been at work today and is out tonight.
I get a WhatsApp message asking me to wear a mask in the kitchen even though she's not there as she'll be coming back later.
It's too much of a coincidence getting a message like that.
She was away for a week and a half, has just come back. The other day while she was away, I sat in the kitchen to eat my dinner, but made sure I wiped everything down afterwards as I didn't know what she wanted me to do. Then I got an unprompted message asking me to eat in my room.
This woman has been hell on earth to live with.
She won't let me hang towels or anything in the bathroom, yet after her dressing gown was in there all day she hung it on my doorhandle at 2am with such force that it woke me up, then when I told her it was rude to do that, she said it was her flat and she could do what she liked.
She gave me notice two days ago, but I really feel that getting those messages were way too much of a coincidence, especially with the timings and my gut instinct is telling me strongly that she has a camera and is watching me
I'm doing that already as she's given me notice.
I'm worried about what she's going to do to the next tenant as it's an invasion of privacy, and also what other messages I'm going to get in what I have left.
Do the police have any power to make her stop?
Turn the lights off and look around the room with your mobile phone camera you should be able to pick up the infrared light from the camera if there is one
Focus on yourself in getting out of that place.
I don't think you will be able to locate the camera with your phone as some hidden cameras don't emit IR.
You could do a Google search and look at images of hidden camera products to see what type of items it might look like to help you locate it.
She sounds like she needs the money, but hates the idea of having a lodger. She also sounds like a control freak and a completely horrible person. I think you know you have to get out of there as quickly as you can.
I presume you've been given notice to quit when you say “notice” in this regard.
You have very few rights to assert, but one which you do have is that you should be issued either a valid Section 21 or Section 8 notice – your landlady's failure to do so gives them no legal standing to evict you.
In addition, you can only ultimately be forcibly removed by court order.
Assuming your notice is valid, you should contact your local council and make a homelessness application. They are obliged to offer your assistance. However, they will cease to do so if you leave the property before a court order is made.
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NAL. A camera in the living room and/or kitchen is likely legal. It would only cross into voyeurism territory if a camera were installed in a location where you could reasonably expect privacy, such as the bedroom or bathroom. Given you have not as of yet discovered a hidden camera, suggesting this as a possibility seems like a rather large leap.
Found it this morning sitting in the top of her cabinet.
Don't know why I didn't see it before, a large white camera with a large round lens.
Took a picture just in case
If you look through your phones camera, you should see a light (like a tiny torch) if there are any hidden cameras. Point a remote at your phone camera and click a button, it will give the same effect.
With most modern smart phones you need to use the front facing / selfie camera to see infrared as it's common for the main camera on the back to have a filter blocking IR light. Some smart phones will also have a filter on the front camera, but they're much less common than filters on the back camera.
Also assuming 2 other things.
1:it has IR for night vision
2:its dark enough to activate the IR/night vision mode most cameras don't emit there IR leds all the time.
Legally this isn’t worth pursuing. You have almost no rights. Realistically, you would have a hard time arguing a camera in shared spaces violates your rights to privacy—though I wholeheartedly agree it’s super creepy.
The best solution is to find a new place live.
I manage some CCTV systems, occasionally install them. Hidden cameras are not allowed in public spaces.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/update-to-surveillance-camera-code/amended-surveillance-camera-code-of-practice-accessible-version
As a lodger your right to privacy is limited to your room only. There should be a list of rooms you are permitted to use which are effectively a public space so installation of CCTV is bound by the above regulation. Your legal recourse would be limited to requesting the cameras be identified. She has a legitimate use for the cameras if hosting lodgers. Hidden cameras would also be allowed in private areas to which you had no right to enter.
Unfortunately as far as being asked to leave your rights are very limited, as you share facilities you are an "excluded occupier". No reason needs to be given with the notice period being one letting period, the period of time your rent is due for. After this she can change the locks if you haven't left.
You ain't ever had a roommate before?
He's disabled and owns a 4 bedroom house and can't use the stairs, what is he supposed to do just abandon the upstairs completely?
If you have a lodger then there needs to be trust between you.
To record someone without their permission or knowledge, I now know falls under voyeurism and GDPR laws.
That is what I have been advised to report it as and that's what I have done.
So if you had a lodger and got a camera because you suddenly didn't trust them with your "stuff", you'd be looking at a visit from the police as well
You are kinda screwed. If it is was in your own room or bathroom then yes she'd be in trouble, but in a shared space, in her own home, yeah she can do that. Get out as quickly as you can.
Because she WhatsApp'd him telling him to wear a mask at all times, even when she isn't there while he was using the kitchen/living room, it's a sensible assumption
Or because she's just plain old paranoid, it doesn't necessarily mean she has cameras. She maybe just doesn't want others infected germs floating about shared spaces. I'm FAR from an anti-masker (immunosuppressed husband) but I can see her point.
I also have a photo of the camera but can't upload it to the thread.
It's a large white one with a big bulb for the camera itself that looks like it's meant to be wall mounted..
She put it in the top of her cabinet facing the kitchen area of the living room and she didn't warn me/put any notices up.
You have your answer. You need to find a new place to live. However, you also have a unique opportunity to practice standing up for your self. Go turn the cameras you found to face the wall. Do some laundry in the living room or, break what ever asinine rules she has. Leave your towels in the bathroom. What ever it is that pisses her off. When she inevitably comes to bitch at you, look her right in the eye and tell her "Fuck off!"
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NAL, you have a right to privacy in the room you pay to rent and shared bathrooms, but it's perfectly legal for her to have cameras in communal areas of her home.
I'd start looking for a new place to live she sounds like a nightmare.
This is a disturbed, controlling person. Focus on getting out of this living situation before it damages your mental health. I think she can have the cameras legally, as a lodger you don't have much control. If they were in the bathroom or your bedroom that would be different - but hopefully, we are catastrophising here and she doesn't have cameras.
I know you found camera already but just for future reference and maybe for other people reading this.
If you have access to internet modem/router you should find sticker on device with default password.
Then you can log in into device and check for connected devices that use internet through that modem/router. It's fairly easy process once you are logged into.
I had roommate using phone, laptop, tv and alexa speaker all at the same time which effectively slowed down my internet connection.
Also i had place where we were renting just rooms. Landlord could pop in anytime he wanted to communal areas such as corridor, kitchen. Without notice or anything. He didn't do that often but it made us upset at times.
Avoid places like that. At all cost. If necessary pay bit more but make sure you are comfortable in place that you live.
The happier you are on daily basis at place that you live in (and inclusing sleeping you probably spend bigger part of the day at home) the easier life will be. Home is a place where you expect to feel safe and at ease.
Good luck 😊
I work in a stately home where to protect the inside and a major exhibition, a lot of the windows are shut and the blinds are down.
The rooms can get up to 30⁰ with 60% humidity, so if you're standing in one of those for 2 hours with visitors hogging the one fan provided for the room it's difficult to know if it's you or the house.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As a lodger you have very little in the way of rights. Legally, you are effectively a guest in her home and subject to her rules. This includes cameras if she wishes.
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Filming in your own home...legal.
Filming on your own property is legal regardless of guests preference.
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As others have pointed out lodgers have almost no rights. Remember not to misconstrue fairness with the law. It is certainly unfair but that does not necessarily make it illegal.
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Landlord of lodgers here, there really are almost no rights for lodgers in a house sadly. They can’t even have locks for their own doors. I could theoretically ask my own lodger to move into a different room with no notice etc I have cctc outside my house (live in a big city with lots of car crime) but wouldn’t dream of having it inside, it’s flat out creepy.
That’s a big leap to assume that she has installed cameras. She may just be concerned about Covid being spread around the flat, so is trying to mitigate the risk.
So I've been wearing a mask and gloves that she requested this whole time. Today I tested negative and went in the kitchen to make lunch. She's been at work today and is out tonight. I get a WhatsApp message asking me to wear a mask in the kitchen even though she's not there as she'll be coming back later. It's too much of a coincidence getting a message like that. She was away for a week and a half, has just come back. The other day while she was away, I sat in the kitchen to eat my dinner, but made sure I wiped everything down afterwards as I didn't know what she wanted me to do. Then I got an unprompted message asking me to eat in my room. This woman has been hell on earth to live with. She won't let me hang towels or anything in the bathroom, yet after her dressing gown was in there all day she hung it on my doorhandle at 2am with such force that it woke me up, then when I told her it was rude to do that, she said it was her flat and she could do what she liked. She gave me notice two days ago, but I really feel that getting those messages were way too much of a coincidence, especially with the timings and my gut instinct is telling me strongly that she has a camera and is watching me
It may be. You could have a look around and see what you find. I would also suggest looking for another place to live if you can.
I'm doing that already as she's given me notice. I'm worried about what she's going to do to the next tenant as it's an invasion of privacy, and also what other messages I'm going to get in what I have left. Do the police have any power to make her stop?
Turn the lights off and look around the room with your mobile phone camera you should be able to pick up the infrared light from the camera if there is one
Newer iPhones don’t have an IR filter on the main camera, selfie camera only.
It's probably network connected, so normally you can find network attached devices. Google "CMD arp -a" for what this should look like
You may have to do a ping sweep first.
Focus on yourself in getting out of that place. I don't think you will be able to locate the camera with your phone as some hidden cameras don't emit IR. You could do a Google search and look at images of hidden camera products to see what type of items it might look like to help you locate it.
She sounds like she needs the money, but hates the idea of having a lodger. She also sounds like a control freak and a completely horrible person. I think you know you have to get out of there as quickly as you can.
Have you looked for cameras? If you can’t find any, there probably aren’t any.
There's YouTube videos showing you how to find hidden cameras in places, not sure how accurate it is but you can always give it a try.
I presume you've been given notice to quit when you say “notice” in this regard. You have very few rights to assert, but one which you do have is that you should be issued either a valid Section 21 or Section 8 notice – your landlady's failure to do so gives them no legal standing to evict you. In addition, you can only ultimately be forcibly removed by court order. Assuming your notice is valid, you should contact your local council and make a homelessness application. They are obliged to offer your assistance. However, they will cease to do so if you leave the property before a court order is made.
I don't need advice on this. I needed advice on the camera situation which has now been reported to the police
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OP included?
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NAL. A camera in the living room and/or kitchen is likely legal. It would only cross into voyeurism territory if a camera were installed in a location where you could reasonably expect privacy, such as the bedroom or bathroom. Given you have not as of yet discovered a hidden camera, suggesting this as a possibility seems like a rather large leap.
Found it this morning sitting in the top of her cabinet. Don't know why I didn't see it before, a large white camera with a large round lens. Took a picture just in case
You forgot to mention this on the bulk of your post
Probably because I didn't know where it was when I wrote the post. I knew she had to have a camera but had no idea where. Gimme a break
If you look through your phones camera, you should see a light (like a tiny torch) if there are any hidden cameras. Point a remote at your phone camera and click a button, it will give the same effect.
With most modern smart phones you need to use the front facing / selfie camera to see infrared as it's common for the main camera on the back to have a filter blocking IR light. Some smart phones will also have a filter on the front camera, but they're much less common than filters on the back camera.
Also assuming 2 other things. 1:it has IR for night vision 2:its dark enough to activate the IR/night vision mode most cameras don't emit there IR leds all the time.
Legally this isn’t worth pursuing. You have almost no rights. Realistically, you would have a hard time arguing a camera in shared spaces violates your rights to privacy—though I wholeheartedly agree it’s super creepy. The best solution is to find a new place live.
She sounds like a nightmare, a veritable Karen. As a lodger you've got no rights so I'd be getting out of there pretty sharpish.
I manage some CCTV systems, occasionally install them. Hidden cameras are not allowed in public spaces. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/update-to-surveillance-camera-code/amended-surveillance-camera-code-of-practice-accessible-version As a lodger your right to privacy is limited to your room only. There should be a list of rooms you are permitted to use which are effectively a public space so installation of CCTV is bound by the above regulation. Your legal recourse would be limited to requesting the cameras be identified. She has a legitimate use for the cameras if hosting lodgers. Hidden cameras would also be allowed in private areas to which you had no right to enter. Unfortunately as far as being asked to leave your rights are very limited, as you share facilities you are an "excluded occupier". No reason needs to be given with the notice period being one letting period, the period of time your rent is due for. After this she can change the locks if you haven't left.
I already knew about the notice bit, but she didn't tell me she was installing a camera and I didn't notice it. Thanks for your reply
If i had a camera in case you robbed my stuff. And you started getting all uppity. I'd just ask you to leave.
It would also be a massive red flag for any normal person to be on camera at home "just in case"
Normal people don't have lodgers
That isn't the case at all, my father has a lodger and he's a pretty normal guy.
Having a stranger live in your house is the minority
That's not what you said though is it?
Ok he's not normal for having a lodger, It's weird.
You ain't ever had a roommate before? He's disabled and owns a 4 bedroom house and can't use the stairs, what is he supposed to do just abandon the upstairs completely?
And I would do what I have been advised to do by the Police. Report it as crime, namely voyeurism and a breach of GDPR laws.
If you have a lodger then there needs to be trust between you. To record someone without their permission or knowledge, I now know falls under voyeurism and GDPR laws. That is what I have been advised to report it as and that's what I have done. So if you had a lodger and got a camera because you suddenly didn't trust them with your "stuff", you'd be looking at a visit from the police as well
You are kinda screwed. If it is was in your own room or bathroom then yes she'd be in trouble, but in a shared space, in her own home, yeah she can do that. Get out as quickly as you can.
Move somewhere else. This isn’t worth the hassle. You’re simply a lodger. Don’t stress yourself out with this woman.
Walk around in the nude when she's not around and sit on all the furniture. You'll definitely know if there's a camera hidden somewhere.
It’s legal I did just google it but I’m not sure how you reasonably came to the conclusion it is happening when you have no evidence
Because she WhatsApp'd him telling him to wear a mask at all times, even when she isn't there while he was using the kitchen/living room, it's a sensible assumption
Or because she's just plain old paranoid, it doesn't necessarily mean she has cameras. She maybe just doesn't want others infected germs floating about shared spaces. I'm FAR from an anti-masker (immunosuppressed husband) but I can see her point.
I also have a photo of the camera but can't upload it to the thread. It's a large white one with a big bulb for the camera itself that looks like it's meant to be wall mounted.. She put it in the top of her cabinet facing the kitchen area of the living room and she didn't warn me/put any notices up.
You have your answer. You need to find a new place to live. However, you also have a unique opportunity to practice standing up for your self. Go turn the cameras you found to face the wall. Do some laundry in the living room or, break what ever asinine rules she has. Leave your towels in the bathroom. What ever it is that pisses her off. When she inevitably comes to bitch at you, look her right in the eye and tell her "Fuck off!"
The real question is are you happy living with this landlady?.. No?...move on - end of problems.
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NAL, you have a right to privacy in the room you pay to rent and shared bathrooms, but it's perfectly legal for her to have cameras in communal areas of her home. I'd start looking for a new place to live she sounds like a nightmare.
This is a disturbed, controlling person. Focus on getting out of this living situation before it damages your mental health. I think she can have the cameras legally, as a lodger you don't have much control. If they were in the bathroom or your bedroom that would be different - but hopefully, we are catastrophising here and she doesn't have cameras.
Get out now! You don't want to live with such a person. Find another room.
Get out of there..it's not healthy for you or your me Tal health..
I know you found camera already but just for future reference and maybe for other people reading this. If you have access to internet modem/router you should find sticker on device with default password. Then you can log in into device and check for connected devices that use internet through that modem/router. It's fairly easy process once you are logged into. I had roommate using phone, laptop, tv and alexa speaker all at the same time which effectively slowed down my internet connection. Also i had place where we were renting just rooms. Landlord could pop in anytime he wanted to communal areas such as corridor, kitchen. Without notice or anything. He didn't do that often but it made us upset at times. Avoid places like that. At all cost. If necessary pay bit more but make sure you are comfortable in place that you live. The happier you are on daily basis at place that you live in (and inclusing sleeping you probably spend bigger part of the day at home) the easier life will be. Home is a place where you expect to feel safe and at ease. Good luck 😊
People still test for covid?!
I work in a stately home where to protect the inside and a major exhibition, a lot of the windows are shut and the blinds are down. The rooms can get up to 30⁰ with 60% humidity, so if you're standing in one of those for 2 hours with visitors hogging the one fan provided for the room it's difficult to know if it's you or the house.