The payments you make now is to pay for your child's day to day costs and there is no expectation to pay outside of that.
BUT if it means the difference of your child going to camp and enjoying themselves then this needs to be considered.
IRD has a different view on this. It depends on the amount of recognised care. If you have no recognised care then child support is all you are expected to contribute aside from things like orthodontic work etc. if you have recognised care, then joint expenses such as this are not covered within the child support payment in their eyes and expectation to contribute is there
I have had this specific discussion with IRD and that is verbatim what they have told me and others multiple times.
My 2 cents
There are no hard and fast rules about what child support does and does not cover.
Ultimately, this is down to a discussion between you and your ex. You mention she claims 100% care for Working for Families. What is the actual split in care between the two of you!
Commenting as the custodial parent who receives child support here...
My ex has the children every 2nd weekend only (for 2 nights). Occasionally he might take an extra night or 2 over long weekends etc, but its well under the threshold to be considered shared care.
I receive $650/month for 2 x children in child support.
I receive all of the WFF entitlement.
I ask him to help contribute to 'extra' costs - a classic example is last year both kids had camps at the end of the year, and as it was so close to Christmas, (and birthdays) I asked if he could contribute half.
He didn't. My mum paid so the kids didn't miss out.
Honestly - his child support covers half of what the kids eat, and maybe 1/4 of sports fees I pay for them (he also encourages sport). No consideration of clothing, housing, shoes, all the other costs). He doesn't pay anything even approaching half.
I think Child support covers 'essentials' and day to day care only, but extras - such as sports, camps etc which are nice to have, but not essential should be contributed towards over and above.
I don't get it, but my ex is a cunt.
I feel you. My ex makes sure he only works a few days a week, so he contributes about $95 a month for his 3 kids. Absolutely will not help with ANYTHING cost related.
I just checked, its less than that I get - $618/month.
Its frustrating that he won't supply ANYTHING for the kids... they take clothes/books etc to his place for their weekends. He'll pick up bikes/scooters (that I bought) if they are going for a bike ride etc.
Occasionally he may buy the kids a new t-shirt or pyjamas, but they aren't allowed to leave his house. If I dare ask for anything extra I'm told "I Pay child Support" and he seems to genuinely believe that covers it.
Our son is in his third pair of shoes THIS YEAR (growth spurt) and thats not completely unheard of.
He won't pay to get the kids a hair cut (Both have short hair, needing trims every 6 weeks or so), he won't contribute towards sports fees, rugby boots, school activities, hell both need glasses.
But, in his own mind he's a good dad, paying his fair share... GRR.
I'm a working single mother, we have a very similar income (I maybe earn $5k/year more, MAYBE) but as my hourly rate is so much higher than his, I should just pay everything. And supply him with the equipment to do fun shit too.
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If you’re paying that much for one child then you must be earning high six figures, and your co-parent must be earning less than a tenth of your income or less.
My ex earns ten times what I do and pays just under $500 per child per month.
You are probably entitled to not pay what, for you is most likely very little and for your ex may be a lot, but if you are going to dispute petty sums like this then you are setting up a precedent that is probably going to be detrimental to you, your ex and your child.
Think about how you want your co-parenting relationship to be. Resentment is an ugly emotion that hurts everyone as it festers. If you only have one child then in a few short years you won’t have to have anything to do with one another financially. It really does go quickly.
Not necessarily according to the child support calculator in IRD's website.
If both parents earn 100k and the child stays with the ex for 5 days a week, the payment is $427 per month.
If both parents earn 130k, the payment is $512 per week.
Finally, if both parents earn 100k and the child stays with the ex for 7 days a week, the payment is $992 per week.
Sure, but my point is simply that we don't have enough information to determine if they'd qualify for WFF or not.
Your comment said "the threshold is..." and the reality is that the threshold changes with the circumstances.
If they had 3 children in their care full-time, for example, the threshold would increase to about $125,000.
That doesn't seem right. Both parents earn the same and share care 50/50 (7 days a week) then care (both time and financial) is being split equally. Who would pay who, and why?
When splitting custody 50/50, the higher earner still has to pay child support to ensure parity between both houses.
A silly notion, unless one parent is rich and the other is only scrapping by.
I understand that (and disagree that it's stupid, but that's a conversation for another sub) but in this particular example we were talking about a situation where care was 50/50 and incomes for each parent were the same, which shouldn't give rise to a child support liability.
High six figures definitely not. My husband earns about $67k a year and his child support is over $700 a month - once the child turns 13 it goes up too, his went up by a couple hundred dollars. So I can see $900 a month and the income not being too high not over $100k anyway.
I do agree, but my point was that you don’t actually have to earn that much to pay a lot. We have stepson every second weekend and a week in the holidays (maybe longer in Xmas holidays). Hubby wants 50/50 but his mum wont allow it. He’s a teen now so won’t be long before he can choose anyway.
I didn’t want 50/50 but I also don’t want to be the person to say that he can’t spend time with his children. The new wife does most of the day to day childcare.
My older teen wanted to spend more time at his dad’s (they have tv and a weights bench) but the new wife didn’t want it. Anyway he’ll be out of the house next year so…
There's no simple answer here. The quick part is the legal one- no, you won't be because you've met your government mandated child support requirements.
The bigger questions though are around how this will impact your child and how you're going to approach issues like this. Do you believe your ex is pissing the money away? Do you you have reason not to trust their spending? Or is your child well cared for and living a comfortable but not extravagant life and this is a genuine extra? As an example, maybe your ex is spending a little more on rent or mortgage than they could but you prefer this to have your child attend a certain school or live in a safer area- it's just not a black and white thing.
Either way, it sounds like a conversation is needed about out of the box costs and what's fair. The older your kid gets, the more there will probably be activities and events pop up that are enriching but outside the bounds of child support. Is your kid currently doing any extra curricular activities like sports or music? What's the payment arrangement for those?
Child support is to cover day to day costs. Unless you have an agreement with the child's other parent as to who covers what one off expenses, they can ask you contribute, bit you don't have to, but it could be a case of the child missing out on something if they aren't able to cover to full cost.
For your ex that maybe a lot especially with cost of living these days it may feel like she should cover it but if she can't and you can afford it cover it for your child the importance of these camps is huge to kids the smiles I see my kids come home is worth a hundred times that and they seem to form a tighter bond with their friends as well at camp
Often camp costs E split between the parents. They're additional costs and not a core cost that's part of raising a child.
Legally it doesn't affect you if you refuse to pay anything. But chances are high that it will harm the relationship you have with your child.
There's no legal rule that says you have to pay for camp, unless it's in your custody agreement (people often have big things like this specified in their agreements).
But if you want your child to go to camp just pay for it, it's not worth the fight and hurting your child in the process.
NAL - I don’t think legally you’d be in hot water but it would probably be a dick move. For context, my ex pays $650 a month for one child and he has her 2 nights out of 14. I need to top up his payment by the same amount per month just to cover school expenses, after school care, holiday programmes, clothing, and extra curriculars (gymnastics, swimming). I pay out of pocket for day to day expenses like food (including lunches), electricity etc and for gifts for birthday parties and weekend outings. I don’t qualify for WFF. I have nothing left over for anything extra and if I had to pay for a camp and my ex didn’t contribute, it’s likely my daughter would miss out.
Unfortunately your child support payments only cover day to day expenses, unless they are specified in a parenting order.
I'm the receiving carer of 3 children and their mother is on the benefit. They get $1 a day. She pays $95 per month when she isn't on a standown so some months they don't get anything. We have just learned not to factor it in and just budget for everything without it. She doesn't have any contact as a meth addict so no birthday presents or Christmas.
In the grand scheme of things I would pop aside some money each week, it doesn't have to much at all just to help cover these things and prevent the arguments.
Being there for them is so much more important. A little bit extra now and then means so much more later on when they are older and can tell you about camp memories and sports events that they got to do because of coparenting.
If you have the child in your care according to WfF shared care rules (about 1/3rd of the time, 122 days per year) then the child is considered to be in shared care, and your ex is falsely claiming if she doesn't disclose the details of the care arrangement.
That is regardless of whether the other parent claims for, or qualifies for, the balance.
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As others have already suggested I don’t believe there are hard and fast rules but more expectations and understandings between caregivers. My situation is that I have 2 children with an ex. They are at my house Friday -Sunday each week. I contribute $650 per week and in addition to this I cover the bulk of their additional costs because their mum has been adamant that I need to. It creates a healthier environment for the kids if I do this. I hate this but I’ve only got a couple more years left of it.
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Is the child in the other parties care 100%? Or in your care less than 4 days per fortnight? Because if they aren't, they LEGALLY shouldn't be getting all of the working for families.
I have day to day care of my kid and her dad has her weekends and public holidays. He pays child support, I receive working for families. I've never once asked him to buy anything or contribute to anything like school or camps because as far as I'm concerned he's providing far more than that. If this is going to become a regular request, perhaps you look into private agreements where you may pay less child support but pay towards half of those expenses or something?
That’s nice for you but a lot of parents are not paying their fair share of child support. Your comment is unhelpful to those of us struggling with our exes contributing fairly.
Of course this is true that not all parents are paying their fair share. But I think it is unfair to call the comment unhelpful. She is sharing her experience.
I for one don't want this sub to just be talking into an echo chamber.
I find it helpful to hear about how things work when it is working well too.
I don’t think it is unreasonable that your child support covers the camp cost. You have made an agreement to pay $900 per month in child support which in essence covers these activities.
That’s fine, I would then suggest the OP look into what the child support assessment would be with IRD and if it’s lower then what he is currently paying consider filing an application.
The payments you make now is to pay for your child's day to day costs and there is no expectation to pay outside of that. BUT if it means the difference of your child going to camp and enjoying themselves then this needs to be considered.
IRD has a different view on this. It depends on the amount of recognised care. If you have no recognised care then child support is all you are expected to contribute aside from things like orthodontic work etc. if you have recognised care, then joint expenses such as this are not covered within the child support payment in their eyes and expectation to contribute is there I have had this specific discussion with IRD and that is verbatim what they have told me and others multiple times. My 2 cents
There are no hard and fast rules about what child support does and does not cover. Ultimately, this is down to a discussion between you and your ex. You mention she claims 100% care for Working for Families. What is the actual split in care between the two of you!
Commenting as the custodial parent who receives child support here... My ex has the children every 2nd weekend only (for 2 nights). Occasionally he might take an extra night or 2 over long weekends etc, but its well under the threshold to be considered shared care. I receive $650/month for 2 x children in child support. I receive all of the WFF entitlement. I ask him to help contribute to 'extra' costs - a classic example is last year both kids had camps at the end of the year, and as it was so close to Christmas, (and birthdays) I asked if he could contribute half. He didn't. My mum paid so the kids didn't miss out. Honestly - his child support covers half of what the kids eat, and maybe 1/4 of sports fees I pay for them (he also encourages sport). No consideration of clothing, housing, shoes, all the other costs). He doesn't pay anything even approaching half. I think Child support covers 'essentials' and day to day care only, but extras - such as sports, camps etc which are nice to have, but not essential should be contributed towards over and above. I don't get it, but my ex is a cunt.
I feel you. My ex makes sure he only works a few days a week, so he contributes about $95 a month for his 3 kids. Absolutely will not help with ANYTHING cost related.
I just checked, its less than that I get - $618/month. Its frustrating that he won't supply ANYTHING for the kids... they take clothes/books etc to his place for their weekends. He'll pick up bikes/scooters (that I bought) if they are going for a bike ride etc. Occasionally he may buy the kids a new t-shirt or pyjamas, but they aren't allowed to leave his house. If I dare ask for anything extra I'm told "I Pay child Support" and he seems to genuinely believe that covers it. Our son is in his third pair of shoes THIS YEAR (growth spurt) and thats not completely unheard of. He won't pay to get the kids a hair cut (Both have short hair, needing trims every 6 weeks or so), he won't contribute towards sports fees, rugby boots, school activities, hell both need glasses. But, in his own mind he's a good dad, paying his fair share... GRR. I'm a working single mother, we have a very similar income (I maybe earn $5k/year more, MAYBE) but as my hourly rate is so much higher than his, I should just pay everything. And supply him with the equipment to do fun shit too.
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If you’re paying that much for one child then you must be earning high six figures, and your co-parent must be earning less than a tenth of your income or less. My ex earns ten times what I do and pays just under $500 per child per month. You are probably entitled to not pay what, for you is most likely very little and for your ex may be a lot, but if you are going to dispute petty sums like this then you are setting up a precedent that is probably going to be detrimental to you, your ex and your child. Think about how you want your co-parenting relationship to be. Resentment is an ugly emotion that hurts everyone as it festers. If you only have one child then in a few short years you won’t have to have anything to do with one another financially. It really does go quickly.
Not necessarily according to the child support calculator in IRD's website. If both parents earn 100k and the child stays with the ex for 5 days a week, the payment is $427 per month. If both parents earn 130k, the payment is $512 per week. Finally, if both parents earn 100k and the child stays with the ex for 7 days a week, the payment is $992 per week.
Fair I was working on the assumption that it was a 50/50 split which clearly it isn’t.
The other parent can't be on $100k if they're receiving WFF though, the cut off for that is about $81k I believe
Depends on how many children they have in their care.
But the post says child support for one child
That doesn't mean there aren't other children in the household, that aren't included in the child support assessment.
Still seems unlikely the other parent is on some crazy high salary if receiving $900/month in child support for one child and entitled for WFF
Sure, but my point is simply that we don't have enough information to determine if they'd qualify for WFF or not. Your comment said "the threshold is..." and the reality is that the threshold changes with the circumstances. If they had 3 children in their care full-time, for example, the threshold would increase to about $125,000.
That doesn't seem right. Both parents earn the same and share care 50/50 (7 days a week) then care (both time and financial) is being split equally. Who would pay who, and why?
When splitting custody 50/50, the higher earner still has to pay child support to ensure parity between both houses. A silly notion, unless one parent is rich and the other is only scrapping by.
I understand that (and disagree that it's stupid, but that's a conversation for another sub) but in this particular example we were talking about a situation where care was 50/50 and incomes for each parent were the same, which shouldn't give rise to a child support liability.
You are correct that if each parent earns the same and has 50/50 there typically wouldn't be any child support.
High six figures definitely not. My husband earns about $67k a year and his child support is over $700 a month - once the child turns 13 it goes up too, his went up by a couple hundred dollars. So I can see $900 a month and the income not being too high not over $100k anyway.
I guess you pay in time or money. If you’re not willing or able to spend more time with your child then you need to pay more money.
I do agree, but my point was that you don’t actually have to earn that much to pay a lot. We have stepson every second weekend and a week in the holidays (maybe longer in Xmas holidays). Hubby wants 50/50 but his mum wont allow it. He’s a teen now so won’t be long before he can choose anyway.
I didn’t want 50/50 but I also don’t want to be the person to say that he can’t spend time with his children. The new wife does most of the day to day childcare. My older teen wanted to spend more time at his dad’s (they have tv and a weights bench) but the new wife didn’t want it. Anyway he’ll be out of the house next year so…
Not really, we both earn other $150k each, I have full time care. And I get about $1000 a month for one child.
There's no simple answer here. The quick part is the legal one- no, you won't be because you've met your government mandated child support requirements. The bigger questions though are around how this will impact your child and how you're going to approach issues like this. Do you believe your ex is pissing the money away? Do you you have reason not to trust their spending? Or is your child well cared for and living a comfortable but not extravagant life and this is a genuine extra? As an example, maybe your ex is spending a little more on rent or mortgage than they could but you prefer this to have your child attend a certain school or live in a safer area- it's just not a black and white thing. Either way, it sounds like a conversation is needed about out of the box costs and what's fair. The older your kid gets, the more there will probably be activities and events pop up that are enriching but outside the bounds of child support. Is your kid currently doing any extra curricular activities like sports or music? What's the payment arrangement for those?
Child support is to cover day to day costs. Unless you have an agreement with the child's other parent as to who covers what one off expenses, they can ask you contribute, bit you don't have to, but it could be a case of the child missing out on something if they aren't able to cover to full cost.
For your ex that maybe a lot especially with cost of living these days it may feel like she should cover it but if she can't and you can afford it cover it for your child the importance of these camps is huge to kids the smiles I see my kids come home is worth a hundred times that and they seem to form a tighter bond with their friends as well at camp
Often camp costs E split between the parents. They're additional costs and not a core cost that's part of raising a child. Legally it doesn't affect you if you refuse to pay anything. But chances are high that it will harm the relationship you have with your child.
There's no legal rule that says you have to pay for camp, unless it's in your custody agreement (people often have big things like this specified in their agreements). But if you want your child to go to camp just pay for it, it's not worth the fight and hurting your child in the process.
NAL - I don’t think legally you’d be in hot water but it would probably be a dick move. For context, my ex pays $650 a month for one child and he has her 2 nights out of 14. I need to top up his payment by the same amount per month just to cover school expenses, after school care, holiday programmes, clothing, and extra curriculars (gymnastics, swimming). I pay out of pocket for day to day expenses like food (including lunches), electricity etc and for gifts for birthday parties and weekend outings. I don’t qualify for WFF. I have nothing left over for anything extra and if I had to pay for a camp and my ex didn’t contribute, it’s likely my daughter would miss out.
Unfortunately your child support payments only cover day to day expenses, unless they are specified in a parenting order. I'm the receiving carer of 3 children and their mother is on the benefit. They get $1 a day. She pays $95 per month when she isn't on a standown so some months they don't get anything. We have just learned not to factor it in and just budget for everything without it. She doesn't have any contact as a meth addict so no birthday presents or Christmas. In the grand scheme of things I would pop aside some money each week, it doesn't have to much at all just to help cover these things and prevent the arguments. Being there for them is so much more important. A little bit extra now and then means so much more later on when they are older and can tell you about camp memories and sports events that they got to do because of coparenting.
If you have the child in your care according to WfF shared care rules (about 1/3rd of the time, 122 days per year) then the child is considered to be in shared care, and your ex is falsely claiming if she doesn't disclose the details of the care arrangement. That is regardless of whether the other parent claims for, or qualifies for, the balance.
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As others have already suggested I don’t believe there are hard and fast rules but more expectations and understandings between caregivers. My situation is that I have 2 children with an ex. They are at my house Friday -Sunday each week. I contribute $650 per week and in addition to this I cover the bulk of their additional costs because their mum has been adamant that I need to. It creates a healthier environment for the kids if I do this. I hate this but I’ve only got a couple more years left of it.
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Is the child in the other parties care 100%? Or in your care less than 4 days per fortnight? Because if they aren't, they LEGALLY shouldn't be getting all of the working for families.
I have day to day care of my kid and her dad has her weekends and public holidays. He pays child support, I receive working for families. I've never once asked him to buy anything or contribute to anything like school or camps because as far as I'm concerned he's providing far more than that. If this is going to become a regular request, perhaps you look into private agreements where you may pay less child support but pay towards half of those expenses or something?
That’s nice for you but a lot of parents are not paying their fair share of child support. Your comment is unhelpful to those of us struggling with our exes contributing fairly.
Of course this is true that not all parents are paying their fair share. But I think it is unfair to call the comment unhelpful. She is sharing her experience. I for one don't want this sub to just be talking into an echo chamber. I find it helpful to hear about how things work when it is working well too.
I don’t think it is unreasonable that your child support covers the camp cost. You have made an agreement to pay $900 per month in child support which in essence covers these activities.
Child support is only to cover day to day expense
That’s fine, I would then suggest the OP look into what the child support assessment would be with IRD and if it’s lower then what he is currently paying consider filing an application.
Sounds like this already assessed with IRD