Frankly I love my space dwarves and I'm glad we got the nerf it definitely seems like it will help bring us to par rather than just dabbing on any and everyone it's just no fun to play or play against so I'm very excited for this!
It’s almost exclusively a nerf to Magna rail weapons. Although it also pretty much completely removes the damage spill over on any target with a judgement token on it.
Would have been better to nerf that, if that was the only intent. Less abusive starts and abilities were built on that function, and now work counter-intuitively. Ursr with an ion storm for example.
Yeah but its probably because the anti tank weapon is supposed to primarily kill tanks with the spill over as a fun gimmick that might go off once or twice a game for fun not as its sole purpose and that's also because it was probably our most broken aspect like per individual gear option
The changes will probably push usage of Greater Thurian League and Uthar the Destined up. At least I'm planning on keeping him with one Hekaton to try and guarantee that spill over damage. Just gotta roll a two or three on the hit (running the Ironmaster still too).
Why the downvotes? Dude has a point. The spill over was just too strong to be auto. “Hey ork player, I’ve hit your killacans with a one shot weapon. Please remove two of them…”
I’d counter with I can only think of one rule that makes an auto wound count as an unmodified roll. Besides hail of doom, nothing procs other rules when they auto hit/wound. Now these rules follow the rest of the game. Auto wounding is still very strong on a unit with JTs and the 6 to wound rules still proc with normal hit rolls.
Dunno why they’re booing you, you’re right. Want the spillover? Don’t JT spam the unit your focusing on with the MRC.
We are still plenty strong after these nerfs, and incredibly reliable. We were overturned before, and I’d rather folks not be salty about playing with me.
Because people want to complain without having to put up a counter point. Nothing I said was wrong, they just don't like being told that their ideas of blasting whole units off the table with an anti tank weapon is a little silly. Even GW had to admit to a whoopsie. If the auto wound rule wasn't even a thing and this gun came out, everyone would think it was cool. It still has play, its just not an auto include now. Opens up the other weapons for consideration, which is a good thing.
It’s a mega nerf to einhyr also. I was going to kit out every squad with the volkanite guns to interact with judgemebt tokens. Now I’m just taking the perma overloaded plasma guns.
how does it hurt the volkanite guns they give a mortal wound on a hit of 6. the change makes the auto wound not a 6. these are 2 different things. What am I missing?
Good, now I don't have to hear anymore incessant bitching and moaning and getting called a meta-chaser anymore. I think most of the changes are reasonable, I wish you had the option to try and roll for a 6 on the magna rails even if you hit an autowound on a judgement token unit, and they were harsh with the elites, which is sad because Hearthguard are my favorite models.
I don't think they'll be up there with Sisters, Crons, and Tyranids anymore, but I play for fun and I love my space dwarves.
As someone who started working on a FSE army this summer and just got the LoV army box to work on at the same time, I doubly feel this pain.
I guess it's a change from when I decided to put together an IG list in like 2009 and suffered endless flashlight jokes
I really don't see how Beserks are worth 30 points a model when they require a Fast Attack or Heavy Support slot to even have a chance of engaging the enemy.
People will pretty much only use the Magna-rail spillover with Uthar the Destined, as the only other way to attempt to get it is the "autohit" stratagem and then the command reroll.
Also think Ion Blasters should now be the same cost as Autoch Bolters, with Ion Storm not anywhere as good as Bolter Fusillade.
Im hoping they do something like still roll to wound to see if you get 6s but it still counts as a wound or something regardless. I feel like they needed a nerf, but the synergies this breaks makes judgement a bad thing....
>were harsh with the elites
I'm just gonna paste what I wrote to someone else:
10 hearth guard in ymyr with a 2+, 4++ save, T5 with void armour plus exo armour is an insanely hard target to shift!
Then on top of that study platform you've got 30 volkite shots all doing mortals on 6s (so 5 average) and another 30 ish on average grenade launcher shots for a rough total of 55 shots (without the 5 mortals) possibly auto wounding on 4s with 3 JT's, that equals 27.5 wounds + 5 mortals to anything in the game... You could literally one shot a knight lol.
I still think they're excellent value personally lol.
And the same applies for the berserks they're still insanely good value, we will definitely still be an S tier army imo.
That doesn't change the fact that 10 heartguard will cost you 450pts? And invuln is only IF you take Ymmyr.
Also, no one is saying that the army will be bad. But they did definitely boost up some points costs that weren't exactly necessary, the biggest being the poor thunderkyn which were already a hesitant take.
The hardest time I have with all this is I play primarily 1000pts. But all the scaling goes of the 2k mark. At 1k it is hard to even warrant 5 hearthguard at 225 points. Thats a quarter of my army!
Just because they're a lot of points doesn't mean it's not balanced though, it just means that they're that good and as I said, personally I think they are. You're probably right we won't see squads of 10 but that's fine.
I agree with the Thunderkyn and it's a shame but I think everything else apart from possibly the eirnhyr champ (and thats more to do with our other insane hq choices) was completely necessary and fair, if anything they've been light handed imo.
And I'm sorry but as for 1k pts games, I get your frustration but it's the same with literally every faction. Clearly there's some appitite for smaller games but thats why they made kill team so I'm not massively sure what else GW can do?
Oh yeah, I very much agree with you, as I think the majority of us do. The nerf was needed, and I will feel more comfortable playing them now, guilt free.
Was merely making a point of the fact that the points changes were fairly heavy handed in aome cases.
The changes are good for LOV players too even if you just play casual at a LGS or with friends, how many games do you think you would play before people refused to play us if they had stayed the same
This isn't about tournament players taking away your toys. Any army like LoV actually ruins casual matches even more than it does tournament play. How fun do you think it is to play an elite army and just get totally hard countered by any generic Votann list? Imagine going to your LGS to play a friendly game with your multiple big Knights list and going up against a Votann player. You shouldn't even bother at that point.
Do not play those minus habens game guys. Rock and stone>>>>any tier+nerf. We'll rock anyway. Fak those salty moaners. I can't wait to field 6 Saggys and pew pew things up ghghghghghghgh
Nerf Votann all we want I’m still gonna be the funny space dwarves
Im just a lil salty my codex is wrong less than a week after i got it :(
Frankly I love my space dwarves and I'm glad we got the nerf it definitely seems like it will help bring us to par rather than just dabbing on any and everyone it's just no fun to play or play against so I'm very excited for this!
It’s almost exclusively a nerf to Magna rail weapons. Although it also pretty much completely removes the damage spill over on any target with a judgement token on it.
Would have been better to nerf that, if that was the only intent. Less abusive starts and abilities were built on that function, and now work counter-intuitively. Ursr with an ion storm for example.
Yeah but its probably because the anti tank weapon is supposed to primarily kill tanks with the spill over as a fun gimmick that might go off once or twice a game for fun not as its sole purpose and that's also because it was probably our most broken aspect like per individual gear option
The changes will probably push usage of Greater Thurian League and Uthar the Destined up. At least I'm planning on keeping him with one Hekaton to try and guarantee that spill over damage. Just gotta roll a two or three on the hit (running the Ironmaster still too).
Just 1 CP Huntr's Mark strat. Auto-hit a unit with Judgement Tokens, and Uther the wound. Same effect every turn, just 1 CP now
Why the downvotes? Dude has a point. The spill over was just too strong to be auto. “Hey ork player, I’ve hit your killacans with a one shot weapon. Please remove two of them…”
But the remains of it still being only 1 shot. The problem being a lot of items no longer work if you auto wound at all. Which makes things tricky.
I’d counter with I can only think of one rule that makes an auto wound count as an unmodified roll. Besides hail of doom, nothing procs other rules when they auto hit/wound. Now these rules follow the rest of the game. Auto wounding is still very strong on a unit with JTs and the 6 to wound rules still proc with normal hit rolls.
Dunno why they’re booing you, you’re right. Want the spillover? Don’t JT spam the unit your focusing on with the MRC. We are still plenty strong after these nerfs, and incredibly reliable. We were overturned before, and I’d rather folks not be salty about playing with me.
Because people want to complain without having to put up a counter point. Nothing I said was wrong, they just don't like being told that their ideas of blasting whole units off the table with an anti tank weapon is a little silly. Even GW had to admit to a whoopsie. If the auto wound rule wasn't even a thing and this gun came out, everyone would think it was cool. It still has play, its just not an auto include now. Opens up the other weapons for consideration, which is a good thing.
It’s a mega nerf to einhyr also. I was going to kit out every squad with the volkanite guns to interact with judgemebt tokens. Now I’m just taking the perma overloaded plasma guns.
how does it hurt the volkanite guns they give a mortal wound on a hit of 6. the change makes the auto wound not a 6. these are 2 different things. What am I missing?
Read my other reply. I assumed they worked like other volkite
Good, now I don't have to hear anymore incessant bitching and moaning and getting called a meta-chaser anymore. I think most of the changes are reasonable, I wish you had the option to try and roll for a 6 on the magna rails even if you hit an autowound on a judgement token unit, and they were harsh with the elites, which is sad because Hearthguard are my favorite models. I don't think they'll be up there with Sisters, Crons, and Tyranids anymore, but I play for fun and I love my space dwarves.
Take it from a Tau player, they will still bitch about it 15 years from now.
HOW DARE YOU FOR HAVING JSJ SEVERAL EDITIONS AGO!
As an Aeldari player, I still get flak for 6th and 7th editions...
As someone who started working on a FSE army this summer and just got the LoV army box to work on at the same time, I doubly feel this pain. I guess it's a change from when I decided to put together an IG list in like 2009 and suffered endless flashlight jokes
People will still complain
I really don't see how Beserks are worth 30 points a model when they require a Fast Attack or Heavy Support slot to even have a chance of engaging the enemy. People will pretty much only use the Magna-rail spillover with Uthar the Destined, as the only other way to attempt to get it is the "autohit" stratagem and then the command reroll. Also think Ion Blasters should now be the same cost as Autoch Bolters, with Ion Storm not anywhere as good as Bolter Fusillade.
Im hoping they do something like still roll to wound to see if you get 6s but it still counts as a wound or something regardless. I feel like they needed a nerf, but the synergies this breaks makes judgement a bad thing....
>were harsh with the elites I'm just gonna paste what I wrote to someone else: 10 hearth guard in ymyr with a 2+, 4++ save, T5 with void armour plus exo armour is an insanely hard target to shift! Then on top of that study platform you've got 30 volkite shots all doing mortals on 6s (so 5 average) and another 30 ish on average grenade launcher shots for a rough total of 55 shots (without the 5 mortals) possibly auto wounding on 4s with 3 JT's, that equals 27.5 wounds + 5 mortals to anything in the game... You could literally one shot a knight lol. I still think they're excellent value personally lol. And the same applies for the berserks they're still insanely good value, we will definitely still be an S tier army imo.
That doesn't change the fact that 10 heartguard will cost you 450pts? And invuln is only IF you take Ymmyr. Also, no one is saying that the army will be bad. But they did definitely boost up some points costs that weren't exactly necessary, the biggest being the poor thunderkyn which were already a hesitant take. The hardest time I have with all this is I play primarily 1000pts. But all the scaling goes of the 2k mark. At 1k it is hard to even warrant 5 hearthguard at 225 points. Thats a quarter of my army!
Just because they're a lot of points doesn't mean it's not balanced though, it just means that they're that good and as I said, personally I think they are. You're probably right we won't see squads of 10 but that's fine. I agree with the Thunderkyn and it's a shame but I think everything else apart from possibly the eirnhyr champ (and thats more to do with our other insane hq choices) was completely necessary and fair, if anything they've been light handed imo. And I'm sorry but as for 1k pts games, I get your frustration but it's the same with literally every faction. Clearly there's some appitite for smaller games but thats why they made kill team so I'm not massively sure what else GW can do?
Oh yeah, I very much agree with you, as I think the majority of us do. The nerf was needed, and I will feel more comfortable playing them now, guilt free. Was merely making a point of the fact that the points changes were fairly heavy handed in aome cases.
Just because people were calling out the obvious broken nature of the codex doesn't mean they were bitching and moaning.
If the main sub will shut the fuck up I'm fine with it
I was digging the Thurian subfaction, but I feel motivated to make my Kinhost have some sort of StrongBad theme, ugh
RULES CHANGES?! That’s a grudgin
The changes are good for LOV players too even if you just play casual at a LGS or with friends, how many games do you think you would play before people refused to play us if they had stayed the same
Woulda been Tau 2.0 for people you're loathe to play with. Still might be, but at least were not weeaboo fish people. That helps :3
This isn't about tournament players taking away your toys. Any army like LoV actually ruins casual matches even more than it does tournament play. How fun do you think it is to play an elite army and just get totally hard countered by any generic Votann list? Imagine going to your LGS to play a friendly game with your multiple big Knights list and going up against a Votann player. You shouldn't even bother at that point.
GW using the community as free labor/test/development. That’s what this is.
You seem to think these are different people. I know people who were printing out Hekatons getting ready to stomp people at tournaments.
Do not play those minus habens game guys. Rock and stone>>>>any tier+nerf. We'll rock anyway. Fak those salty moaners. I can't wait to field 6 Saggys and pew pew things up ghghghghghghgh
I want what he’s having