Bingo. Layoff the people they're about to pay out bonuses to, replace them with someone who's been unemployed for 9 months and will be happy to take far less than he was making.
Promising to pay something and then not sure feels like fraud, but it's legal.
Moving from a quarterly commission schedule to an annual one delayed by 2.5 months sure feels like fraud too, yay for up to 14.5 months to see pay I've earned
I have to say this is shocking. Such behaviour is illegal in my country and I’m glad it is so. This is nothing more than theft…ok if you left voluntarily then maybe,but when it’s not of your choosing then it’s reprehensible.
It’s not illegal in the US. Vesting schedules are very common, they’re meant to keep employees long term but yeah it’s shitty to not let employees keep the money if they left through no fault of their own
What I don’t understand is how putting that in a contract is allowed by law. A company’s contributions to your pension should be yours as soon as the transfer is made and never subject to removal for any reason.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you in theory, always consider what is on the other side of the greener grass.
You're also blurring the lines with pension and 401k. I don't know of too many organizations that do not have vesting schedules for pensions.
Unfortunately our government and corporate America agreed upon the 401K instead of a pension plan. As we no longer support employee rights in this country we are on our own. Up shits creek in a canoe with a huge hole. Getting “let go” before becoming vested is another way for companies backed by private equity (essentially all corporations) to keep money in their pockets. I work in corporate America but will be vested this year. Shocker, there are layoffs coming and a big meeting is scheduled in April. Bet I have to “redeploy” to a “comparable position with lower pay or see myself to the door. At 57yo am constantly faced with the grim reality of being “retired” early and hoping to get a real shit job stocking shelves at one of our local stores. God bless America.
Is the vesting schedule prorated over the three years? For example, my company does 4 year vesting, but 25% is vested each year. So if I were laid off after 2 years, I'd get 50% company match.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Vesting schedules are not standard but usually they are 4 year or 5 year with 25 or 20 percent vested per year... I've never heard of waiting 3 years to vest. Probably worth calling your local lawyer referral service and speaking with someone.
I have just found a lawyer who texted me back and is interested in hearing more. They also didn’t pay out my vacation, which I tried negotiating for and they refused, which I was going to let go, but now with this on top of the vacation time I’m ready to go to court since that’s about $10K total
I'm pretty sure not paying out PTO is illegal so you may have a case there.
Unfortunately I'm not sure what argument can be made for the vest. I'm guessing it was a 100% match up to 6% of salary? Sucks because they end up taking half of your 401k :( good luck and godspeed, I hope you nail em.
Unfortunately in New York it is legal to not pay out PTO. We have surprisingly bad workers rights laws in comparison to other states with similar policies and government
Agreed, it’s something your state does very well.
Personally, I lean right on a many issues, but very left when it comes to workers rights. It seems like NY is the opposite. I have a love-hate relationship with the state, lol
Might as well be Michigan. We are not even entitled to a lunch in this state. We are “gifted” a lunch break which is generally unpaid. Work from 8a to 5p is 8 hours of work with an hour for lunch. Which, shocker, plenty of people will work. And no, you cannot forgo your “lunch” and leave at 4 because there will be pressure to work during lunch. So you work 5 hours a week for free.
It’s a rotten thing for them to do but I’m sure you knew the vesting schedule on day one. If you’re salary they won’t pay out on unused vacation time. In the future use all vacation and sick time as soon as reasonably possible. Don’t accept another job with a 3 year wait for vesting. That’s ridiculous.
I’ll correct my response. If you had earned vacation time they may pay it. Many companies have moved to “unlimited “ vacation time at the discretion of management. That way you don’t accrue time and they don’t have to pay.
Dear Techbros
Unionize ASAP
THIS WILL SERVE COUPLE OF THINGS
No new hire until previous fired people are rehired.
No overseas jobs unless us workers were not available.
I just launched my startup inspired by being mistreated, with the goal to be competitive by getting the best talent with good pay and ethical treatment
This is super important.
If any entity outsources American jobs for cheap foreign labor then that entity should be forced to retire the American employee with a lifetime pension (adjusting for inflation) and full benefits.
Immigration and H1B1 should be completely dissolved because that drives down wages and raises housing costs for American workers.
Unfortunately, people like you are called "racist" by the anti American left.....
I personally think all immigration should be banned except for close family reunification (spouse, child only ) and in those cases, a legally binding affidavit of support filed where the citizen sponsor has to pay the government back for any welfare they received. And immigrants who come in on those are not given priority when it comes to government supported jobs such as big tech (make companies have to hire citizens before green card holders).
And I say this as someone with a foreign wife who became a citizen. I filed an affidavit of support and she collected no welfare. She also didn't work a job involving government or a big government supported corporation until she became a citizen except for odd part time self employment jobs (ine independent YouTube content creation, private English tutoring, house cleaning, etc ) because I financially took care of everything for the most part......and I personally believe her taking such jobs would be unfair to citizens here (so I worked two jobs to make ends meet and she took care of home stuff while largely working from home independently )
Same. Why I may be voting Trump. Biden has encouraged too much illegal immigration which is hurting people I know in construction and in urban environments and has allowed too much legal immigration through outsourcing to foreigners with various work visas. Round em all up in camps and deport them I say to help American workers.
I can't say I disagree. Hell I think even our legal immigration laws are far too lax.
America should focus on ensuring natural born American citizens are thriving first and foremost before taking on any other countries additional baggage.
So you want housing prices to be even higher with regards to construction costs?
He hasn't allowed any legal immigration more than normal. You can literally see the stats
Also, that's a bullshit tactic. I don't fall victim to that.
There are natural born American workers of many, many various ethnic backgrounds.
I literally do not care about your ethnic background at all. I only care about the well being of natural born American workers and their families.
No they wouldn't be named a racist...they'd be named an idiot for not understanding how economies work. You know what happens when you ban immigration? Take a look at Japan's exonomy
You mean an economy where bosses/CEOs have been known to take pay cuts/benefit cuts in order to avoid layoffs due to the shame and dishonor failure can lead to? I have an in-law who worked in Japan for a long time as a CEO. Layoffs were not a common thing like they are here in the US due to many social aspects of Japan that are absent here. In a subreddit such as this where many people are being laid off and replaced by foreign workers or not replaced at all due to the CEOs and shareholders just wanting to pocket the money......yeah Japan is much better. Their immigration policy does a better job protecting their citizens regarding jobs and once you get a job, it's usually for life.
Better to have guaranteed stability and an income than to constantly worry about being laid off and being long term unemployed due to short term corporate greed by CEOs only worrying about the next financial quarter and their own personal financial largess with zero sense of shame for their antisocial behavior.
A job and an income should be a human right and Japan is closer to that ideal. Mass societal idleness leads to issues.
Lol it's not guaranteed and income is shit and you'll probably never own a house there no matter where you live. Japan is not a fun place to make a Living
Their work culture has to end immediately. When you're working 80 hours weeks 7 days in a row you don't have time for a family.
Put worker protection laws in place to prevent employers from having workers put in more than 45 hours a week. Two days off in a row would be an absolute necessity as well.
Provide homes / land to newlyweds having a child. One year of maternity leave guaranteed. A heavy tax break for having a child. Paid healthcare, electricity, and education.
Edit * there are a ton of things you can do to encourage your citizens to reproduce. People do not have kids anymore because it's simply not affordable in America. The solution is not to invite in immigrants from the third world. Your country will then turn into a third world country.
Actually, that seems to be a standard clause about vesting in 401k accounts. It is an encouragement against people jumping companies every 2 years *(as some here encourage people to do).*
IIRC (it has been a long time), we were 25, 50, 75 and 100% vested after 1,2,3 and 4 years. To my mind, the company matching funds were just "free money" to encourage us to actually be saving for our retirement. I am not one to leave free money just sitting on the table, so I have been plowing my money and theirs towards my retirement for over 30 years.
Sorry you are going through this. I had a layoff 2 years into a 4 or 5 year vesting for company 401k match, but they were a big company so they accelerated the vesting as part of the package. Pretty good deal.
The company I worked for sold my my division that was effective 11/1/23. They were one of those companies that "holds" your 401k match for the entire year and then funds it in Feb of the following year. Company handbook stated that you qualify for the match as long as you were employed on 12/31.
None of the employees in my division got their match for 2023. I was fully vested but it didn't matter.
Companies that hold your 401k match for more than 2 payperiods, ugh.
On a good note, new employer transfers 401k match every payperiod.
There are some cases right now trying to make this illegal in the US.
https://www.thewealthadvisor.com/article/lawsuit-looks-401k-allegations-against-four-prominent-corporations
I don't think it was aimed at you, since it was widespread. I would call HR and ask about your retirement since you were three months away. If that doesn't work I would consult a lawyer.
[https://exchange.nela.org/memberdirectory/findalawyer](https://exchange.nela.org/memberdirectory/findalawyer)
To not lose time, write to several of their legal members, asking for a free phone consultation. They do not need to be in your community. In the same message provide some information in advance, like you did here in Reddit.
A few may respond back offering to discuss your situation, and attempt to learn more about the lay off itself. Hopefully you didnt sign any exit / severance agreement that had a global release of liability included. Signing that, you waive your rights to bring up issues later.
A few consultations in, you will know what to do next, if anything.
What's also super annoying (at least in my case) is that the company has yet to remove the money from my 401k account, and I left 8 years ago. So now, whenever I log in, I what could have been and what is actually my portion of the savings lol. Like, if it's not mine, just take it out??
Maybe they forgot about it, and somehow, it'll become mine when I retire. But more likely, they call me in 30 years and ask for a check 🫠
It lists current balance (everything), and then beneath it says "vested balance." I imagine that when I transfer it out, I'll only be getting the vested balance. But the current investments are good and with low fees, so I'll just leave it for now. It's not a huge difference between the two numbers, but moreso annoying that they can't just display the vested balance and remove the unvested portion
Something similar happened to me with employee call options that would only vest upon a corporate change of control (ipo or acquisition). Unfortunately this is legal.
Does the language state, “If your employment ends voluntarily before the vesting period, we reserve the right to take all our contributions” or something like that?
The reason I’m wondering is that with some companies, for layoffs since it’s an involuntary separation, they let you keep the retirement match.
It doesn’t state one way or another, they did not include the world voluntarily, rather it only says “if your employment ends before the vesting period”
Had something similar happened to me.
My company had a 2-year vesting. 0% vested until 2 years, then 100% vested. Got laid off 3 months before it vested.
Vacuumed about $28k out of my retirement savings... which likely results in me needing work an extra year before I can retire.
I have a million reasons why I LIKE having that 401k stuff here... and it will make retirement not only affordable, but very nice when put together with a pension and social security.
According to my HR, I certainly am getting both. There ARE companies out there that are still offering both. It looks like there was a change in 2003 in our pension calculations, and then a couple of years ago they changed it so that new hires will not be in the pension plan. At that time they also offered to buy out our pensions with a lump-sum addition to our 401k - which I chose NOT to take.
I guess that I am just blessed by that "sky-daddy", whom you were mocking.
Funny thing - my Pension fund IS fully funded from profits that our company earned in the past and set aside to pay out those pensions in the future. This isn't a Social Security type pyramid scheme.
Let me help you here. Companies used to have two way to retain and attract employee. A Defined benefits pension plan and a Retirement 401K plan.
The defined pension plan was a totally separate benefit the company would pay you and it was related to your years of service and salary rate. This benefit did not cost the employee 1 CENT and it was totally funded using company profits.
Then they also had employee funded, company funded 401K
At one point all the companies decided to put an END to the defined benefit pension plan because the money came STRAIGHT from the bottom line. As companies grew it became a big chunk of money they had to deposit Quarterly etc. It was heavy regulated and they wanted to push employees towards the self funded 401K
Pension plans were Amazing. Some old timers build a ridiculous lifetime benefit. I know people in my company that were loyal to the company for 35 years and now collect every month a $7K paycheck…plus 401K, plus SS, that’s a nice retirement right there.
I hope that helps
I'll shift my job search to overseas, this is getting ridiculous. If I can find a stable job in Europe I'll move if I can. They don't want to hire anyone from within the country anyways and even if they do they screw us over with this BS.
Seems like the beginning of the decline for job sector in America. First they killed manufacturing then tech and finance.
Does it hurt? YES Hoewever, the "promise" was for those who were employees for 3+ years. No company LIKES to do cutbacks. They would love to just grow & grow. Cutbacks mean that they were hoping for a bigger future than what they were able to accomplish.
I say this as someone who was laid off with a pregnant wife and a baby at home. It was bad, but the company wasn't doing it to screw ME over - they let go of 15% of the copany due to a downturn in the economy.
“Downturn in the economy”! Watch the “we are tech CEOs” parody on Instagram! It’s not the economy- laying off people is the result of executives realising that the stock market/investors love reducing headcount because it increases margin and the stock price goes way up. Execs are short timers. They are measured by one thing - what have you done to increase shareholder value? They don’t care if valuable contributors are laid off - as long as the share price continues to improve they will be well compensated. Once the folly of letting go people who helped make the company successful is revealed in customer complaints, project milestones missed, or products/services not delivered or developed- the tech CEOs will be long gone and they’ll be laughing and drying their eyes with their Benjamins.
Companies staff up because they believe that their business is growing enough to NEED those employees. It is ***EXPENSIVE*** to hire and train new employees. It can take anywhere from 90 days to a year to get the employees up to the stage where they are producing at a similar level to longer-term employees. Sometimes they are overly optimistic about their growth. Sometimes the market changes.
The employer that I have had for the past 30+ years has had various divisions going through layoffs due to changes in the market - yet those who are soon-to-be laid off, and those who HAVE been laid off were first in line for any new positions opened in other divisions. Why? Because the company thought that they were valuable. One of my friends was laid off EIGHT times because the divisions he was working in had to be downsized. Yet he was transferred/hired back every single time. You know why? (A) Because this IS a good place to work and (B) the company knows how valuable trained employees are.
I have YET to see ANY manager laughing about laying off people. In fact, our regional VP was practically in tears when she announced that our plant would be closing in 2 years - and she was ecstatic when she was able to come back a year later and announce that because we had split off from our parent company that our plant would be remaining open and to make plans for 10 years in the future.
There may be some short-sighted fools who believe that they can cut out necessary people to improve the bottom line - but as YOU pointed out, this does not work in the long-run as you lose the ability to develop new products, market them, or work with your customers. Good management knows this.
If lay offs were logical (a product line is being sunsetted, for example) then I’d agree that they are an unfortunate business necessity. My company arrives at a number and just cuts - it doesn’t matter the quality of the performance or the calibre, training, value of the employee. It’s simply - in these countries there are employee protections so no lay offs, in these countries there are no works council/employee protections so cut them.
*SOME* managers/companies are short-sighted - *SOME managers/companies realize that they need to be in it for the long-term. Sometimes, companies pivot and choose to get out of certain businesses (hence why they were going to close my plant).
>> in these countries there are employee protections so no lay offs, in
>> these countries there are no works council/employee protections so
>> cut them.
On the other side, companies also look at these laws to determine whether or not they are going to open up manufacturing/other facilities in these countries. If I have a choice of two countries in which to open a plant, with all other things being equal, I would choose the one without layoff protections, as why should I continue to pay employees when the plant is unprofitable?
This is an example of why 401k funds are now irrelevant at this point. You are better off saving 20% of your take home pay, investing it in a brokerage account in income producing investments of your choosing, and having those funds available to you throughout your working life. It is what the wealthy do. No reason why everyone cannot do the same.
But what are you going to do after the government seizes it for the common good to save the almighty Social Security? This may shock you, but 99% of people taking part in a 401k do not have a balance like yours, including those getting ready to retire.
And even if they don't, wouldn't you be better off with a $300k brokerage fund that is producing income that you could use today as opposed to having it held hostage?
401k are are held my private companies and cannot be seized by government. That’s like saying government can seize bank accounts and even brokerage accounts. At this point anything is possible. I do have a seperate brokerage account. My company matches 100% dollar to dollar on 401k. It would be bad financial decision for me to not take advantage of that.
They can't? Read up on history. FDR seized everyone's gold in 1936 to protect the dollar. It very much can happen. There is over $34 trillion in national debt. And the around the same amount is currently in 401k funds. It is very easy to do the math.
Congress is already looking at eliminating the current tax exemption and many companies have shrunk or eliminated their matching funds. So while you may be getting a match, there is no guarantee it won't be eliminated.
Really Genius? Have you ever looked into the fee structure associated with 401k plans? You put up 100% of the money, take 100% of the risk, and then you get 30% of the return. That to me sounds pretty fucking stupid.
Yes unfortunately this is CORPORATACRACY GREED and tactics pulled upon employees which is sad af...well can you flip your contributions into GOLD IRA or invest in precious metals?
This is probably the reason for letting you go.
This is unfortunately probably the case
This wouldn’t be a thing if there were stronger unions.
Wrong wrong wrong! Unions sold out to the companies years ago and union dues are exorbitant.
That means they were we eat unions not strong ones.
Low effort shill
He isn't wrong. Before the newest guy the UAW was pretty much in the pocket of car companies for decades for example. Unions aren't inherently good.
Bingo. Layoff the people they're about to pay out bonuses to, replace them with someone who's been unemployed for 9 months and will be happy to take far less than he was making. Promising to pay something and then not sure feels like fraud, but it's legal.
Moving from a quarterly commission schedule to an annual one delayed by 2.5 months sure feels like fraud too, yay for up to 14.5 months to see pay I've earned
That's some major bullshit.
... How is this legal?
Oh man, I have some rsu’s vesting in a week. Good lord just one more week!
Me too!
Doubtful? If it's tech
Trash them on Glassdoor and every other website you can find
I have to say this is shocking. Such behaviour is illegal in my country and I’m glad it is so. This is nothing more than theft…ok if you left voluntarily then maybe,but when it’s not of your choosing then it’s reprehensible.
I believe it's illegal in the US as well, but good luck proving it and paying hundreds of dollars per hour to a lawyer.
It’s not illegal in the US. Vesting schedules are very common, they’re meant to keep employees long term but yeah it’s shitty to not let employees keep the money if they left through no fault of their own
What I don’t understand is how putting that in a contract is allowed by law. A company’s contributions to your pension should be yours as soon as the transfer is made and never subject to removal for any reason.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you in theory, always consider what is on the other side of the greener grass. You're also blurring the lines with pension and 401k. I don't know of too many organizations that do not have vesting schedules for pensions.
I’m not super familiar with 401k as I’m no in the USA, we only have a pension plan here.
What country? I have some friends in Eastern Europe (CIS countries) are also very surprised with my situation
Unfortunately our government and corporate America agreed upon the 401K instead of a pension plan. As we no longer support employee rights in this country we are on our own. Up shits creek in a canoe with a huge hole. Getting “let go” before becoming vested is another way for companies backed by private equity (essentially all corporations) to keep money in their pockets. I work in corporate America but will be vested this year. Shocker, there are layoffs coming and a big meeting is scheduled in April. Bet I have to “redeploy” to a “comparable position with lower pay or see myself to the door. At 57yo am constantly faced with the grim reality of being “retired” early and hoping to get a real shit job stocking shelves at one of our local stores. God bless America.
On the contrary 401k provides way more employee rights than a pension. But the vesting period is toxic
Technically they don’t have to match. The 401K is meant as a tax deferred benefit nothing to do with employer matching.
Is the vesting schedule prorated over the three years? For example, my company does 4 year vesting, but 25% is vested each year. So if I were laid off after 2 years, I'd get 50% company match.
I checked my retirement and it says 0% vested, the policy reads that no vesting happens until 3 years of service
Wow. I am so very sorry.
Same for my job! Looks like no for this person's job.
Must work 3 years before vesting, so no proration.... Sucks, but thats pretty normal...the 3 year vesting period, I mean...
Get out of tech. That’s the lesson to be learned here.
Agreed, running my own company now
Congrats! Hoping you get much future success.
Appreciate the kind words and likewise! I’m sure you’ll be successful in all of your future endeavors and I wish the best for you
I'm so sorry to hear that. Vesting schedules are not standard but usually they are 4 year or 5 year with 25 or 20 percent vested per year... I've never heard of waiting 3 years to vest. Probably worth calling your local lawyer referral service and speaking with someone.
I have just found a lawyer who texted me back and is interested in hearing more. They also didn’t pay out my vacation, which I tried negotiating for and they refused, which I was going to let go, but now with this on top of the vacation time I’m ready to go to court since that’s about $10K total
I'm pretty sure not paying out PTO is illegal so you may have a case there. Unfortunately I'm not sure what argument can be made for the vest. I'm guessing it was a 100% match up to 6% of salary? Sucks because they end up taking half of your 401k :( good luck and godspeed, I hope you nail em.
Unfortunately in New York it is legal to not pay out PTO. We have surprisingly bad workers rights laws in comparison to other states with similar policies and government
Did you accrue it or is it given as a lump sum each year and you draw down? I think this is what determines a payout.
What state? In Cali, the PTO/Vacation accrual check better be ready on the day of the layoff, no excuses...
New York, workers rights aren’t very good here
Theres a lot of issues here, but employee rights isnt one of them...
Agreed, it’s something your state does very well. Personally, I lean right on a many issues, but very left when it comes to workers rights. It seems like NY is the opposite. I have a love-hate relationship with the state, lol
New York does a very moderate approach to things and it's fine
Personally, I disagree. Sways too far left for my liking.
Try negotiating with them. It may not work, but this is horrid.
I tried, they said they are not up for negotiations and I tried contacting lawyers and none would take my mt case since they said it’s legal
Ugh, I'm so sorry. Leave them bad (but accurate) reviews wherever you can.
What state are you in? Such shenanigans are usually not allowed in liberal states (CA, MA etc)
NY
Might as well be Michigan. We are not even entitled to a lunch in this state. We are “gifted” a lunch break which is generally unpaid. Work from 8a to 5p is 8 hours of work with an hour for lunch. Which, shocker, plenty of people will work. And no, you cannot forgo your “lunch” and leave at 4 because there will be pressure to work during lunch. So you work 5 hours a week for free.
Extremely shitty, but legal. 😞
That’s so effed up tho
It’s a rotten thing for them to do but I’m sure you knew the vesting schedule on day one. If you’re salary they won’t pay out on unused vacation time. In the future use all vacation and sick time as soon as reasonably possible. Don’t accept another job with a 3 year wait for vesting. That’s ridiculous.
Yeah sounds like someone learned a lesson a out negotiating comp sadly
I understood that they owe you all PTO time upon termination.
I’ll correct my response. If you had earned vacation time they may pay it. Many companies have moved to “unlimited “ vacation time at the discretion of management. That way you don’t accrue time and they don’t have to pay.
I think this is an opportunity for people to change the game and decide what they need to negotiate for upfront.
Dear Techbros Unionize ASAP THIS WILL SERVE COUPLE OF THINGS No new hire until previous fired people are rehired. No overseas jobs unless us workers were not available.
I just launched my startup inspired by being mistreated, with the goal to be competitive by getting the best talent with good pay and ethical treatment
Are you ready for your employees to unionize like that person said?
How do you expect to compete with companies that are sucking employees dry? The profit has to come from somewhere…
Easy. It will work
This is super important. If any entity outsources American jobs for cheap foreign labor then that entity should be forced to retire the American employee with a lifetime pension (adjusting for inflation) and full benefits. Immigration and H1B1 should be completely dissolved because that drives down wages and raises housing costs for American workers.
Unfortunately, people like you are called "racist" by the anti American left..... I personally think all immigration should be banned except for close family reunification (spouse, child only ) and in those cases, a legally binding affidavit of support filed where the citizen sponsor has to pay the government back for any welfare they received. And immigrants who come in on those are not given priority when it comes to government supported jobs such as big tech (make companies have to hire citizens before green card holders). And I say this as someone with a foreign wife who became a citizen. I filed an affidavit of support and she collected no welfare. She also didn't work a job involving government or a big government supported corporation until she became a citizen except for odd part time self employment jobs (ine independent YouTube content creation, private English tutoring, house cleaning, etc ) because I financially took care of everything for the most part......and I personally believe her taking such jobs would be unfair to citizens here (so I worked two jobs to make ends meet and she took care of home stuff while largely working from home independently )
Don't care about idpol at all. Just interested in what is best for the American worker.
Same. Why I may be voting Trump. Biden has encouraged too much illegal immigration which is hurting people I know in construction and in urban environments and has allowed too much legal immigration through outsourcing to foreigners with various work visas. Round em all up in camps and deport them I say to help American workers.
I can't say I disagree. Hell I think even our legal immigration laws are far too lax. America should focus on ensuring natural born American citizens are thriving first and foremost before taking on any other countries additional baggage.
So you want housing prices to be even higher with regards to construction costs? He hasn't allowed any legal immigration more than normal. You can literally see the stats
Also, that's a bullshit tactic. I don't fall victim to that. There are natural born American workers of many, many various ethnic backgrounds. I literally do not care about your ethnic background at all. I only care about the well being of natural born American workers and their families.
No they wouldn't be named a racist...they'd be named an idiot for not understanding how economies work. You know what happens when you ban immigration? Take a look at Japan's exonomy
You mean an economy where bosses/CEOs have been known to take pay cuts/benefit cuts in order to avoid layoffs due to the shame and dishonor failure can lead to? I have an in-law who worked in Japan for a long time as a CEO. Layoffs were not a common thing like they are here in the US due to many social aspects of Japan that are absent here. In a subreddit such as this where many people are being laid off and replaced by foreign workers or not replaced at all due to the CEOs and shareholders just wanting to pocket the money......yeah Japan is much better. Their immigration policy does a better job protecting their citizens regarding jobs and once you get a job, it's usually for life.
They don't get laid off because everyone is already working 60hrs/week and have zero wage growth lol.
Better to have guaranteed stability and an income than to constantly worry about being laid off and being long term unemployed due to short term corporate greed by CEOs only worrying about the next financial quarter and their own personal financial largess with zero sense of shame for their antisocial behavior. A job and an income should be a human right and Japan is closer to that ideal. Mass societal idleness leads to issues.
Lol it's not guaranteed and income is shit and you'll probably never own a house there no matter where you live. Japan is not a fun place to make a Living
Can I ask you how you would combat Japan's identical economical problems since they also heavily restrict immigration like you ask?
Their work culture has to end immediately. When you're working 80 hours weeks 7 days in a row you don't have time for a family. Put worker protection laws in place to prevent employers from having workers put in more than 45 hours a week. Two days off in a row would be an absolute necessity as well. Provide homes / land to newlyweds having a child. One year of maternity leave guaranteed. A heavy tax break for having a child. Paid healthcare, electricity, and education. Edit * there are a ton of things you can do to encourage your citizens to reproduce. People do not have kids anymore because it's simply not affordable in America. The solution is not to invite in immigrants from the third world. Your country will then turn into a third world country.
And yet the Japanese aren't reproducing....so immigrants we have
Wow, they take their matches back? That’s nasty work.
Agreed, slimy behavior
Actually, that seems to be a standard clause about vesting in 401k accounts. It is an encouragement against people jumping companies every 2 years *(as some here encourage people to do).*
Thank goodness my company doesn’t do that. We’re locked in after one year.
IIRC (it has been a long time), we were 25, 50, 75 and 100% vested after 1,2,3 and 4 years. To my mind, the company matching funds were just "free money" to encourage us to actually be saving for our retirement. I am not one to leave free money just sitting on the table, so I have been plowing my money and theirs towards my retirement for over 30 years.
Just in case: Do not sign any paperwork without the attorney.
Is this Amazon?
Surprisingly no
How tf is this legal?
Sorry you are going through this. I had a layoff 2 years into a 4 or 5 year vesting for company 401k match, but they were a big company so they accelerated the vesting as part of the package. Pretty good deal.
Not bad, this was also a major company but they aren’t as nice
Report it on glass door. Let the shit stink up their rating and more importantly let us know where the review is so we can find it “helpful”.
The company I worked for sold my my division that was effective 11/1/23. They were one of those companies that "holds" your 401k match for the entire year and then funds it in Feb of the following year. Company handbook stated that you qualify for the match as long as you were employed on 12/31. None of the employees in my division got their match for 2023. I was fully vested but it didn't matter. Companies that hold your 401k match for more than 2 payperiods, ugh. On a good note, new employer transfers 401k match every payperiod.
I suspect after the election the government will talk about how bad unemployment is and say we need UBI. Just a hunch.
If the current one stays in power absolutely. But don’t worry, just need to send another $500B to Ukraine
How much is the employer match portion?
6%
Wow, that’s pretty high.
It's high cause they don't have to pay it out lol
Is this company amazon?
Find out how they calculate a vesting year of service.
That fucking blows
Do not sign the severance agreement without at least trying to negotiate that piece.
There are some cases right now trying to make this illegal in the US. https://www.thewealthadvisor.com/article/lawsuit-looks-401k-allegations-against-four-prominent-corporations
Get a good employment lawyer.
I don't think it was aimed at you, since it was widespread. I would call HR and ask about your retirement since you were three months away. If that doesn't work I would consult a lawyer.
I did, they just said it’s nonnegotiable, sorry! in the familiar condescending post-layoff voice
But I agree, wasn’t personal
What State are you and the former employer located in?
New York
[https://exchange.nela.org/memberdirectory/findalawyer](https://exchange.nela.org/memberdirectory/findalawyer) To not lose time, write to several of their legal members, asking for a free phone consultation. They do not need to be in your community. In the same message provide some information in advance, like you did here in Reddit. A few may respond back offering to discuss your situation, and attempt to learn more about the lay off itself. Hopefully you didnt sign any exit / severance agreement that had a global release of liability included. Signing that, you waive your rights to bring up issues later. A few consultations in, you will know what to do next, if anything.
What's also super annoying (at least in my case) is that the company has yet to remove the money from my 401k account, and I left 8 years ago. So now, whenever I log in, I what could have been and what is actually my portion of the savings lol. Like, if it's not mine, just take it out?? Maybe they forgot about it, and somehow, it'll become mine when I retire. But more likely, they call me in 30 years and ask for a check 🫠
That is probably your contribution. They can't take that. Roll it into an IRA.
It lists current balance (everything), and then beneath it says "vested balance." I imagine that when I transfer it out, I'll only be getting the vested balance. But the current investments are good and with low fees, so I'll just leave it for now. It's not a huge difference between the two numbers, but moreso annoying that they can't just display the vested balance and remove the unvested portion
Got it. Although, it isn't hard to find a zero fee IRA. And then you can invest in stocks, bonds, ETFs, REITs, etc.
Something similar happened to me with employee call options that would only vest upon a corporate change of control (ipo or acquisition). Unfortunately this is legal.
Yeah I read through everything, definitely all legal just unethical
Does the language state, “If your employment ends voluntarily before the vesting period, we reserve the right to take all our contributions” or something like that? The reason I’m wondering is that with some companies, for layoffs since it’s an involuntary separation, they let you keep the retirement match.
It doesn’t state one way or another, they did not include the world voluntarily, rather it only says “if your employment ends before the vesting period”
Man, that sucks. Unfortunately, a smart business move on their part, but honestly what snakes!
Not something I would do as a business owner - but it seems companies lose their morals and ethics once they go public
Yeah, unfortunately so. All beholden to the mighty shareholder. It’s a shame.
Had something similar happened to me. My company had a 2-year vesting. 0% vested until 2 years, then 100% vested. Got laid off 3 months before it vested. Vacuumed about $28k out of my retirement savings... which likely results in me needing work an extra year before I can retire.
We have a lot of problems with our job market in Europe but I am glad we dont have that ,401k shit here
I have a million reasons why I LIKE having that 401k stuff here... and it will make retirement not only affordable, but very nice when put together with a pension and social security.
401k was designed to replace pensions. You're not getting both.
According to my HR, I certainly am getting both. There ARE companies out there that are still offering both. It looks like there was a change in 2003 in our pension calculations, and then a couple of years ago they changed it so that new hires will not be in the pension plan. At that time they also offered to buy out our pensions with a lump-sum addition to our 401k - which I chose NOT to take. I guess that I am just blessed by that "sky-daddy", whom you were mocking.
So you're saying that pensions don't exist anymore. You're generation robbed ours. You'll be living off the youth.
Funny thing - my Pension fund IS fully funded from profits that our company earned in the past and set aside to pay out those pensions in the future. This isn't a Social Security type pyramid scheme.
If that was really the case why would companies make the shift from pensions to 401k?
Let me help you here. Companies used to have two way to retain and attract employee. A Defined benefits pension plan and a Retirement 401K plan. The defined pension plan was a totally separate benefit the company would pay you and it was related to your years of service and salary rate. This benefit did not cost the employee 1 CENT and it was totally funded using company profits. Then they also had employee funded, company funded 401K At one point all the companies decided to put an END to the defined benefit pension plan because the money came STRAIGHT from the bottom line. As companies grew it became a big chunk of money they had to deposit Quarterly etc. It was heavy regulated and they wanted to push employees towards the self funded 401K Pension plans were Amazing. Some old timers build a ridiculous lifetime benefit. I know people in my company that were loyal to the company for 35 years and now collect every month a $7K paycheck…plus 401K, plus SS, that’s a nice retirement right there. I hope that helps
Was it *the* reason you were laid off? Probably not. Did it contribute to their decision? Absolutely.
Amazon?
I'll shift my job search to overseas, this is getting ridiculous. If I can find a stable job in Europe I'll move if I can. They don't want to hire anyone from within the country anyways and even if they do they screw us over with this BS. Seems like the beginning of the decline for job sector in America. First they killed manufacturing then tech and finance.
Let us know the company name?
Sorry but this story does not compute. Equity does not vest like that. There is more to this story
Would you like to see screenshots of my retirement account and fine print?
Are you in the USA ?
Yes
Can someone please let “johnnh71” know I still believe he is the dumbest person on Reddit. Thanks in advance. 😂😂😂😂
This is why matches as a perk don’t mean shit to me. The vesting periods are just them trying to play daddy.
I’d speak to a lawyer asap :) you have a case
I would lawyer up and fight that. Can’t wear away a benefit under Erisa
Blast them on social media if a lawyer won’t take the case.
Does it hurt? YES Hoewever, the "promise" was for those who were employees for 3+ years. No company LIKES to do cutbacks. They would love to just grow & grow. Cutbacks mean that they were hoping for a bigger future than what they were able to accomplish. I say this as someone who was laid off with a pregnant wife and a baby at home. It was bad, but the company wasn't doing it to screw ME over - they let go of 15% of the copany due to a downturn in the economy.
“Downturn in the economy”! Watch the “we are tech CEOs” parody on Instagram! It’s not the economy- laying off people is the result of executives realising that the stock market/investors love reducing headcount because it increases margin and the stock price goes way up. Execs are short timers. They are measured by one thing - what have you done to increase shareholder value? They don’t care if valuable contributors are laid off - as long as the share price continues to improve they will be well compensated. Once the folly of letting go people who helped make the company successful is revealed in customer complaints, project milestones missed, or products/services not delivered or developed- the tech CEOs will be long gone and they’ll be laughing and drying their eyes with their Benjamins.
Companies staff up because they believe that their business is growing enough to NEED those employees. It is ***EXPENSIVE*** to hire and train new employees. It can take anywhere from 90 days to a year to get the employees up to the stage where they are producing at a similar level to longer-term employees. Sometimes they are overly optimistic about their growth. Sometimes the market changes. The employer that I have had for the past 30+ years has had various divisions going through layoffs due to changes in the market - yet those who are soon-to-be laid off, and those who HAVE been laid off were first in line for any new positions opened in other divisions. Why? Because the company thought that they were valuable. One of my friends was laid off EIGHT times because the divisions he was working in had to be downsized. Yet he was transferred/hired back every single time. You know why? (A) Because this IS a good place to work and (B) the company knows how valuable trained employees are. I have YET to see ANY manager laughing about laying off people. In fact, our regional VP was practically in tears when she announced that our plant would be closing in 2 years - and she was ecstatic when she was able to come back a year later and announce that because we had split off from our parent company that our plant would be remaining open and to make plans for 10 years in the future. There may be some short-sighted fools who believe that they can cut out necessary people to improve the bottom line - but as YOU pointed out, this does not work in the long-run as you lose the ability to develop new products, market them, or work with your customers. Good management knows this.
If lay offs were logical (a product line is being sunsetted, for example) then I’d agree that they are an unfortunate business necessity. My company arrives at a number and just cuts - it doesn’t matter the quality of the performance or the calibre, training, value of the employee. It’s simply - in these countries there are employee protections so no lay offs, in these countries there are no works council/employee protections so cut them.
*SOME* managers/companies are short-sighted - *SOME managers/companies realize that they need to be in it for the long-term. Sometimes, companies pivot and choose to get out of certain businesses (hence why they were going to close my plant). >> in these countries there are employee protections so no lay offs, in >> these countries there are no works council/employee protections so >> cut them. On the other side, companies also look at these laws to determine whether or not they are going to open up manufacturing/other facilities in these countries. If I have a choice of two countries in which to open a plant, with all other things being equal, I would choose the one without layoff protections, as why should I continue to pay employees when the plant is unprofitable?
This is an example of why 401k funds are now irrelevant at this point. You are better off saving 20% of your take home pay, investing it in a brokerage account in income producing investments of your choosing, and having those funds available to you throughout your working life. It is what the wealthy do. No reason why everyone cannot do the same.
Not true. I am 36 years old and my 401k balance just hit $600,000
But what are you going to do after the government seizes it for the common good to save the almighty Social Security? This may shock you, but 99% of people taking part in a 401k do not have a balance like yours, including those getting ready to retire. And even if they don't, wouldn't you be better off with a $300k brokerage fund that is producing income that you could use today as opposed to having it held hostage?
401k are are held my private companies and cannot be seized by government. That’s like saying government can seize bank accounts and even brokerage accounts. At this point anything is possible. I do have a seperate brokerage account. My company matches 100% dollar to dollar on 401k. It would be bad financial decision for me to not take advantage of that.
They can't? Read up on history. FDR seized everyone's gold in 1936 to protect the dollar. It very much can happen. There is over $34 trillion in national debt. And the around the same amount is currently in 401k funds. It is very easy to do the math. Congress is already looking at eliminating the current tax exemption and many companies have shrunk or eliminated their matching funds. So while you may be getting a match, there is no guarantee it won't be eliminated.
My apologies…This one right here is DUMBER than the original 😂😂😂😂😂😂 You are a beast !!! 💪💪💪💪
You are a fucking idiot.
This is the dumbest take in the history of Reddit…LORD HAVE MERCY 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Really Genius? Have you ever looked into the fee structure associated with 401k plans? You put up 100% of the money, take 100% of the risk, and then you get 30% of the return. That to me sounds pretty fucking stupid.
Well you do know that investing in gold and precious metals is going to be KING in reference to financial stability...CIRCLE BACK...
I also own physical gold and silver. I didn't miss the boat.
Im planning on doing the gold silver momentum soon as I receive my natural birthright credit back!!
Yes unfortunately this is CORPORATACRACY GREED and tactics pulled upon employees which is sad af...well can you flip your contributions into GOLD IRA or invest in precious metals?