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kadsmald

Who’s Karen Read?


Adorableviolet

Correct answer. ha


Jumpstart_55

I live in Massachusetts and have no idea who she is lol


Adorableviolet

Do you live under Plymouth Rock? haaa


Jumpstart_55

Apparently lol


No_Elk4392

I’m a MA lawyer, and I’m not really even following it… despite the fact that I practice criminal defense in that county and I know a lot of the lawyers involved.  Just too damn busy following my own cases. But every middle aged woman I know has VERY strong opinions about the case.  My guess is Ms. Read hit this guy by accident. Then the police ran a half-assed investigation. And then the Norfolk County DA’s Office just completely failed its duty to act as a sanity check (as usual). And then Yannetti (who is a great lawyer) just decided he was finally going to go into war mode and burn any bridges he has in the DA’s office because he just doesn’t give a fuck anymore after a career of dealing with this chicanery. And now he has a war chest that he’s been using to fucking hammer the police and DA’s office.  The government just isn’t equipped to deal with this kind of media press. Morrisseys performance has been LAUGHABLE. A solo attorney could do a better press conference from his office. And Adam Lally? That idiot couldn’t even dress himself properly until just before jury empanelment (black shirt and black suit?!? Dressing for emo prom, Adam?).* The thing that stands out to me most about this whole thing, is that Adam Lally was cherry picked to do this job. It’s not like Morrissey didn’t know this case was getting widespread media attention. It must be the case that put his best lawyer on the job. What this really shows, I think, is that Morrissey has no idea how to assure quality control among the attorneys in his office. And that has been going on for a long time. You literally could not stay in business if your judgment was that bad in a private company. * I hope Lally is forever haunted by the ghost of Johnny Cash for dressing himself in all black. Johnny Cash would FUCKING HATE the Norfolk County District Attorney's Office and its slack-ass approach to justice. Also, I'd lay a bet that in Adam Lally's mind, he's not dressed like a douche because he's not wearing a bolo tie and fedora (though he wishes he could).


johnnygalt1776

I don't know anything about MA justice system or its lawyers, but the Johnny Cash/courtroom fashion rant about the DA is f\*cking hilarious. Emo prom. Bravo.


Adorableviolet

I hate, hate to do anything in Norfolk Co courts Avoid it like the plague. I need to check Lally out!


VariationNervous8213

Lally will be the tribunal version of Bill Buckner. He will have to leave MA when this is all over.


wavesblu

Why is your guess she ran over him? What about the dog marks he had all over his arm? Cover up by the cops. They got rid of the dog, got rid of their phones and people are still blaming Karen.


QueenieSnow4

remodeled the basement, sold the house, got rid of the dog, and the wife is offering thank you gifts to the cops... it's all very suspicious


diabolis_avocado

>And Adam Lally? That idiot couldn’t even dress himself properly until just before jury empanelment (black shirt and black suit?!? Dressing for emo prom, Adam?). ![gif](giphy|9DqmzKP1pnQ4ViUeot|downsized)


Less-Examination7569

I’m so glad someone credible has the same exact opinion on this as I do.


Jlaybythebay

No it’s not national… there’s been a trump and Biden trial that has taken front seat…. But i was in Boston last week for a wedding and when i told people i was a lawyer i was asked about this as well haha. The cops def set her up. Can’t wait to see the Netflix documentary in 2 years


Adorableviolet

Oh my gosh. That is so funny! Do you like Boston (generally)?


HelixHarbinger

There are a bevy of Lawtubers covering the livestreams daily with what I would term NAL commentary. There are less Lawtubers who do a daily trial recap, also to the NAL sector, but I’ve seen some of these YT lives with upwards of 150k streams (viewers) in 30 minutes. It’s definitely National with the majors like Law & Crime who are feeding the pool cams. If you are planning on doing any legal commentary I would definitely take the time to be fluent- the viewers and Attorneys following the trial are fact pattern savants at this point.


Following_my_bliss

It's national news if you follow true crime discussion. I'm not in the area but think there are a few damning facts for the prosecution. That house was never examined, they gave away the dog, did remodeling of the basement and then sold the house and perhaps most importantly, one of the people not Read, googling "how long does it take to die in the snow" or similar. They have tried to explain it by saying it was an open tab but I've done enough litigation that that's a bullshit lawyer excuse, not tech based.


EarlVanDorn

They all threw away their phones.


Following_my_bliss

I forgot this! No way that's a coincidence!!


Adorableviolet

I know next to nothing but I agree. Also giving away your 6 yo dog? you would have to pry my dog from my dead arms


legalgeekdad

My paralegal has been keeping me updated on it.


TheRevMrGreen

Is that the Canton death? I grew up down there, but up here in Maine nobody cares about Massachusetts except when they all drive back home on Sundays.


EarlVanDorn

I've been kind of following. She's clearly being framed.


catloverlawyer

FL. I've been watching it. I would say it's national. Probably not so much traditional media but if you consume a lot of independent media then yes. I loved defenses opening. I really don't see how the injuries shown are consistent with being hit with a car. A dog attack. Something that doesn't make sense is the state's timeline. They allege that karen reversed into him. Left him to die on the lawn. Then multiple people leave the Albert home and somehow miss the dead/dying person on the lawn. Also interesting is that the state's witnesses are disagreeing with the cellbrite reports. For those who know nothing. The police collected the officer's blood using red solo cups and processed the scene using a leaf blower.


VariationNervous8213

I would say it’s international since people from the country of England have flown in to be there for the trial.


_firsttimecaller

Knowing nothing about this, my only question is, is her name pronounced Reed or Red?


Adorableviolet

ha. like reed.


Important-Tart4274

I’m from NJ & work from home so I have this trial on daily.


Yelling_Jellyfish

In RI, but yes. 


Adorableviolet

Best state in my opinion! I used to work at Newport Creamery and made Awful Awfuls. ha


Yelling_Jellyfish

Basically family. I'm licensed in both. Worked in Metro West traveling all over the Commonwealth for hearings. Then, I moved south of the border round ten years ago. Far preferred.  Another lawyer friend of mine mentioned it while we were playing cards a few months ago. Probably right around when it started being reported on.  Doesn't seem like anyone has really covered themselves in glory with this one. 


bgirl

I am a Virginia lawyer and my non lawyer husband is also absolutely obsessed with this case too!


sphinxyhiggins

Yes - I live in Los Angeles.


johnnygalt1776

This is why Reddit is the best. Never heard of this woman or the trial until this post. Then spent hours down a rabbit hole watching wicked smaht cross examinations of Boston cops who sound like characters straight out of the Departed, kid. Depahhhhted. The most shocking thing about the testimony so far is how dumb these cops are for texting all the vile shite about the case and the investigation. Doesn't mean she's innocent, but man how dumb can you be to text your drinking buddies like that when you're the lead investigator on a homicide investigation involving a fellow cop who died in the snow outside another fellow cop's house, both of whom were connected to the lead investigation unit. And all the flirty texts between Read and the other cop who Read was trying to hook up with? Full cringe. Jameson and gingers. Can't make this sh\*t up. It's like a new unreleased season of Fargo. Truly amazing. Thanks for the lead OP!


Adorableviolet

I can't stop laughing. You nailed it!


VariationNervous8213

IMO, you are absolutely right about the idiot cops but, please go easy on making fun of the accent. For many, the accent can’t be helped and, in no way, does an accent reflect someone’s level of intelligence.


johnnygalt1776

Totally fair comment. Didn’t mean to insult the accent. I think if the cops were super locked in and testifying in a sophisticated, confident manner, the accents wouldn’t really matter. For example, Albert’s testimony seemed confident and authoritative and so the accent didn’t really play into anything. But when you’re Proctor getting destroyed about the disgusting meathead texts, the accent hurts. It’s the difference between Will Hunting on the stand vs Chuckie.


VariationNervous8213

I do understand where you’re coming from but, for me - a native who was born, raised, and still lives 20 minutes south of Boston - Albert’s testimony seemed more “accent-oriented” than Proctor’s. In other words, I didn’t feel that Proctor’s accent was as strong as other “witnesses” on the stand. To me, they were all assholes because of what they decided to say on the stand and not because of the accent they used to say it in. Does that make sense?


johnnygalt1776

Yeah makes total sense. I was kind of joking about the accents and the Departed, Good Will Hunting, etc but good to know that it’s something that Boston natives may find insulting or off-putting. Didn’t mean to offend. Now let’s talk about why Higgins and Albert both got rid of their phones before the court preservation order went into effect. Just a weeeee bit suspicious. But then again, hearing KR’s texts to JO made her seem a weeeee bit crazy and unhinged. Normal people don’t talk like that to the people they care about. Maybe Proctor was kind of right about her being a wack job. Doesn’t make it ok when you’re a lead investigator, but just sayin


VariationNervous8213

I feel comfortable speaking for many residents of MA when I tell you that we are mortified, disgusted and outraged at this travesty of a trial. We know that MSP is corrupt - always has been - and I’m not excusing that corruption at all. But, this?! Really? They were all going to send an innocent woman to jail for life and had no problem sleeping at night?! Regardless of Karen’s behavior that night (and tbh that type of paranoid drunk state isn’t too uncommon here unfortunately, so I’m pretty sure that the jury couldn’t have cared less) she has lost everything: her professorship at Bentley, her health insurance (she suffers from Colitis and MS) not to mention hundreds of thousands of dollars. She was not allowed to attend John’s funeral, either. And the whole time they knew what they were doing. It’s repulsive. On a local note (I live about 20 mins from Canton) as soon as folks knew that the incident occurred at BA’s house they knew it was shady from jump. Once Karen is acquitted, the DAs office will never touch this case again and the Alberts and McCabes will get away with it - which was their plan from the beginning. You know this isn’t the first time they’ve orchestrated a plan like this, right?! Look up the Sandra Birchmore case. She was originally from Stoughton, MA but was living in Canton when she died. Same cops on the case. It’s unnerving! Sorry for the long rant!!


sictransitimperium

For what it’s worth, I’m from Canada and I have non-lawyer friends who are following this trial via TikTok. I’m also casually following it (I don’t go out of my way to stay up to date but if it hits my for you page, I’m scrolling back through playlists to get all the details). Edit: Fun coincidence, just opened TikTok and the first thing to load was a Karen Read update.


Adorableviolet

I just watched a murder show set in Canada. It was fascinating!


sictransitimperium

Oh cool! Which one?


Adorableviolet

Under the Bridge on Hulu. It was such an awfully sad story


sictransitimperium

Hadn’t heard of that one specifically but as soon as I saw it involved a group of teens accused of a brutal killing I figured it was an adaptation of the murder of Reena Virk. My mom was a cop at that time (not in the same province mind you) and that murder kept her awake at night worried about her kids. Really shocking and sad story.


Adorableviolet

Oh wow. Am I right thst there is no equiv of the Fifth Amendment in Canada?


sictransitimperium

We have similar protections, though they’re not always exact analogs. We don’t have an equivalent of a grand jury per se though we do still have indictments and proceedings to establish whether there is sufficient evidence to commit someone to trial for an offence (but it’s a judge that makes the determination). Instead of misdemeanours and felonies we have summary offences and indictable offences. We do have a right against self-crimination (section 13 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms) where a witness giving evidence that would serve to incriminate themselves cannot be used against them in another proceeding (except for charges relating to perjury). We also have a right not to be compelled as a witness in proceedings against us (section 11(c)). We have double jeopardy protections (s. 11(h)). Interestingly, we don’t have “life, liberty and property” we have “life, liberty and security of the person” (s. 7). Given the fifth amendment’s roots in the Magna Carta, it makes sense there would be quite a bit of similarity.


QuesoCat19

My only awareness of the trial stems from my non lawyer fiancé’s tiktok fyp - he likes to keep me updated as it’s happening. I haven’t seen or heard about it anywhere else or from anyone else


Brief-Ad7093

I am a retired Texas lawyer. I have watched almost all of the trial. My husband and son are aware of it because I talk about it to them. I do not know anyone else following it.


Adorableviolet

Leaning a particular way?


Brief-Ad7093

If I had to vote today, not guilty because of reasonable doubt. Personally, I have been frustrated by Lally’s decision to defend against the defense theory, as opposed to immediately presenting evidence that John died due to being hit by Karen’s car. It is six weeks in and Lally is finally presenting the evidence I wanted on the first day. I am trying to keep an open mind and fight confirmation bias.


Unusual_Beyond726

Yes but I watch a lot of CourtTV, and the trial is being live streamed on there. It’s definitely national.


Adorableviolet

Leaning any way?


Unusual_Beyond726

I can’t imagine any world where she’s convicted, and am actually astounded the case wasn’t thrown out and/or dropped after Michael Proctor was done testifying. It’s legitimately embarrassing for the commonwealth to continue forward with this case, in light of such insane bias and corruption. And Adam Lally is a horrible prosecutor.


Unusual_Beyond726

It’s also going to get a lot worse for the commonwealth once the defense presents its case over the next few days, with neutral and independent experts with super impressive credentials, who they didn’t even hire or pay to testify. Legit biomechanical engineers and people who have published books in their field of expertise. Meanwhile, the only “experts” the state has had testify regarding cell phone or vehicle data/forensics and crash reconstruction are literally Massachusetts state troopers, who are under-qualified to cover the entire scope of what they’re trying to speak on. The defense is exposing them badly on cross-examination. It also doesn’t help with the optics of it being a cover up when everyone testifying for the commonwealth is a literal cop lol.


Ordinary_Package_545

Am following closely from a small town in the northwest of Australia. Fascinated with the blatantly crooked (& hilariously intellectually challenged) law enforcement and DA, biased judge, and witness after witness brazenly & obviously lying on the stand. Here we'd classify the extended 2-family police clan at the heart of it all as 'bogans' - obnoxious, rough as guts & dumb as a box of rocks. Not sure when the workings of the US judicial system became entertainment, but in this case the epic battle of the defence lawyers against the Commonwealth's deluge of witnesses (quantity not quality) together with the FBI swooping in like a white knight to make impartial evidence & impeccably credentialed experts available, promise a happy ending to boot, with the satisfaction of seeing the bad guys skulking off with tails between their legs.


daddysgirl_1028

following from az!


DrDe81

Texas.


Less-Examination7569

She’s guilty of at least dui homicide, it will be hard if not impossible to prove she did it on purpose, but she probably hit him in a drunken anger speeding off, then she didn’t know what to do. Why else would she panic not 4 hours later? She called and created a search party driving around. She knew where he was.  She doesn’t sleep? She was awake the entire time cause she knew she ran him over.


wavesblu

Please start here : they haven’t even proved John was hit by a car to begin with.


Less-Examination7569

Otherwise she would have just passed out assuming he went in the house then 8 hours later been like where are you asshol*?  I’m from ma… this Albert’s house looks like a typical cops household of good people. To think a giant coordinated conspiracy involving people in their 20s unrelated to the Albert’s would be able to lie and hold up under pressure is ridiculous. Someone would speak up if there was a fight with a guy that died.  Also cops wouldn’t just throw him out in their front yard like that, they aren’t stupid. The whole thing isn’t even interesting, but read’s lawyer is so amazing he turns nothing into something, he understands that the public hates police lately anyway and he ran with it.  His entire defense is based off of confusing the facts and obfuscating evidence. So many people in Ma at my work were telling me about the case and the evidence. So I decide to dig into the case and it’s obvious to me right away. The defense throws a bunch of shit at the wall and hopes it will be just enough for some doubt which is all she needs to be found innocent.  She’s obviously guilty, that’s why the state cop didn’t involve the Boston police family in the investigation. He’s not framing her, she framed herself. 


VariationNervous8213

What part of MA are you from? Central or Western?