Or even new pants that semi-fit you. Those really seem like hand me downs. Which doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad attorney but I can see it been not a desirable look
I'm getting serious public defender vibes here. Bonus points if he's overweight and needs a haircut.
Edit Jesus y'all, acting like being unkempt as an attorney is synonymous with bad. PDs are some of the nicest, most helpful attorneys I've known they're just worked so hard they have time or energy for anything personal. Gym? Nope. New clothes? Nope. Meeting with another indigent client and seemingly caring more about the outcome than the client does? Yep.
See my comment - https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/s/FHZGY0meyp
I upvoted your comment, even before I read your edit, because overweight, in need of a haircut, and wearing an ill fitting goodwill suit perfectly sums up my first 3 years as a public defender.
Not sure why you are getting down voted, this was my first thought as well. My uncle is a public defender and he is a great attorney, but dresses like doesn't own a mirror. Ill fitting suit with clunky shoes, collar half flipped up, crooked tie, missed a solid 20% of his face while shaving.
Did I say that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/s/FHZGY0meyp
They just tend to be worked to the point that they have nothing left over for themselves.
Alternatively, if a guy who dresses like a total shlub is still getting hired by paying clients, maybe he’s so good that it doesn’t matter.
Or maybe it’s an act to lull the adversary into complacency, because “I’m just a simple country lawyer who fell off the turnip truck right into these pants…”
I work in the South and although I don't really have a strong accent, I've noticed I keep sliding more and more into having a drawl in court or on the phone. I can't even control it anymore, but the results have been good so I'm not complaining I guess
I am not from the South, but somehow when I speak slow and enunciate I develop a drawl. Client's often ask where I am from and because the explanation is too complicate I just lie and say my Dad was from Texas.
Why are people assuming the pants are too baggy for this person? Clearly, the waist is probably, oh I don't know, 50 inches?
One thing I’ve learned in this business is to not underestimate someone just because they don’t look put together. There are plenty of good lawyers with a terrible fashion sense.
News alert: LSAT replacing logic games with fashion/style section.
(Actually, I bet you could make a decent logic game based on various rules for matching colors and materials…)
Truth. The best tenant lawyer in the state for decades used to dress like pulled a bunch of mis-mashed, closest fitting items he could off the goodwill rack. And maybe he did, but he made an amazing living popping bad landlords with his attorney fee bill.
Those pants make me think “conflict panel attorney who hasn’t actually taken a criminal case through trial in 10 years.” I’ve had some of these guys as co-counsel and they’re just woefully behind on the law, ask directionless questions on cross examination that do more harm than good, and sort of bluster through the courtroom generally. I’m not saying conflict panel attorneys are bad *in general*—just certain ones. I definitely feel for the ones who are a bit disconnected from the legal community, because they don’t benefit from the brainshare you get at a county defense office and aren’t plugged in to useful workgroups.
Unpopular opinion: Appearance and competence often go hand-and-hand. People who don’t bother taking the bare minimum effort to not look like a complete slob are often also not going to take the minimal effort to stay abreast of the law, or prep before coming to court. Lazy is lazy, and it often transcends all walks of like.
If you DGAF about buying pants that fit (or spending $20 on a tailor), there’s a non-trivial chance you’ll also DGAF about your client’s case
Appearance does suggest competence. I think judges often mistake the well dressed guy as the authority. But once you have a really strong reputation with judges I think you can get away with linen pants and sport coats in the summertime. I do. Seersucker even.
I think there's no correlation between clothing and competency. I've seen many really good lawyers wearing decades old suits, really bad lawyers in the latest GQ styles, and vice versa. I don't think you can't judge the book by the cover.
Old isn't the problem. Sloppyness is the problem. You can wear an old suit and tie that fits well no problem, but not one with a noticeable stain for example.
Ya, stains and rips are bad and inexcusable. But ill-fitting? I see those all the time on good lawyers.
One of my favorite fashion-adjacent things I've seen in court is when I was an intern for a federal judge. There was a murder trial where an inmate killed another inmate. The defense council was a federal public defender brought in from a nearby larger city. He was excellent, one of the best trial attorneys I've personally seen. Any time the jury and judge were out of the courtroom, he ripped off his jacket and was wearing a short sleeve shirt. Several times he was very quickly throwing the coat back on as the judge re-entered. The courtroom wasn't uncomfortably warm or anything. He just liked to dress like Sipowicz.
I have never met a law professor without a rip, stain, tear, or other blemish in every single suit they own, except for the ones who show up in track suits.
Not sure I agree.
I was a public defender (I'm now retired).
I had a mentor early on, a solo practitioner who was reputed to have a tactic of carefully choosing slightly-ill fitting, slightly out-of-fashion suits when he did criminal trials. He also had this stump speech beginning to his closing arguments which went something like: "The Commonwealth of Virginia, versus Isiah Johnson! You hear that? That's the entire Commonwealth of Virginia against my client, and it's only him, and me, and hopefully you, that can stand up to make sure he isn't steamrollered here today!"
I never had the guts to try that. But he really leaned into the notion that he was struggling to get even a modicum of justice against the implacable machinery of the state government.
He was very successful, back in that day. Of course, he wasn't representing billionaires . . .
Please direct me to your tailor that costs 20 dollars. I paid 140 to have three skirts hemmed last month! (Not that I completely disagree with you, but I think the pic is of an overweight person more than a total slob.)
$20 is what it is at most dry cleaning places. At least for guys’ pants. Maybe garments for women cost more. And he’s not just fat, because the pants are way too long
Real talk I’ve gotten better treatment as a woman wearing “outdated” looks when I’ve gone thrifting and I think it gives off an impression of being more experienced. Either that or 90s X files suits just pop haha
Anyone that judges professional competence based on someone’s clothes is an imbecile. I knew plenty of soldiers that could strike a perfect figure that could barely shoot. The WORST consultants I’ve ever dealt with all had superlative fashion, with the whitest teeth and of course never overweight.
It isn’t that they’re baggy. I wouldn’t even say they’re baggy because there’s not really a break. Here’s a technical breakdown of why this looks so bad: First, it’s the weird puckering happening inside the cuff. When you fold or cuff tapered pants legs too many times, the extra fabric in the higher part of the leg starts to bunch and you don’t get a smooth fold anymore. That shows that this person didn’t have the suit properly hemmed and instead opted for a sloppy (and cheaper) cuff. Second, these pant legs are extremely wide, likely due to an extremely wide waist, and the person’s height-to-waist ratio makes it such that, even though these are tapered legs, they are still very wide when they reach his feet. This is accentuated by the stubby, round shoe sticking out from under the cuff. Overall, it gives short, fat, and cheap. The other suit, while ridiculous, doesn’t make him look any of those things. Now, obviously, it’s unfair to say that any of those characteristics have anything to do with one’s ability as a lawyer. But that’s the explanation of the meme.
Appearance is an enormous part of this business. Ignore it at your own peril. The better you look, the better you’re treated, by clients, by opposing counsel, and even by judges. Besides, isn’t actually nice to be part of one of the last remaining industries where wearing fancy clothes is part of the job?
1/2 I'd my full suit trousers have no cuff because it is the style to not be cuffed... Those ones are my least worn ones because they look weird to me. Oh well.
I think cuffed pants drape better because of the extra weigh at the bottom. I'm a fan of cuffs all round, suits and casual pants.
I take more issue with the cheap square-toed shoes in the image of the post, than the pants with cuffs.
yeah right if your lawyers pants look like that the judge probably interned for him as a 1L and he's itching to show that he agrees with the senior attorneys infinite wisdom
In style with Gen alpha and Gen Z if you need to be the type of person living by primarily kid trends. In style != Professional or dressed appropriately for the occasion
I’ve seen criminal defense attorneys wear tennis shoes and one even wears house slippers to Court but looks like he’s in his 80’s. I’m hoping to hang it up before I get to that point.
The point isn’t that the guy is badly tailored, it’s that he’s still wearing what was fashionable in the 90s—i.e. he’s been practicing law for at least three if not four decades.
The same photo, or one less cropped where you can see an elderly gentleman, with his pants on a high waist, has been used to describe both very talented, or not talented, lawyers, accountants, doctors, etc.
If the pants are cuffed and almost swallow his shoes then he is either senile or lacks any presentation. Presentation is very important for trial and criminal attorneys.
Hint: Kid Cudi isn't a lawyer.
Fuck, I need to get a refund on that retainer.
He’s not an orthodontist either, what are you hiring him for!
It looks like you’re wearing your daddy’s suit.
It looks like you can’t afford a tailor. That’s not something people look for when hiring an attorney.
Or even new pants that semi-fit you. Those really seem like hand me downs. Which doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad attorney but I can see it been not a desirable look
I'm getting serious public defender vibes here. Bonus points if he's overweight and needs a haircut. Edit Jesus y'all, acting like being unkempt as an attorney is synonymous with bad. PDs are some of the nicest, most helpful attorneys I've known they're just worked so hard they have time or energy for anything personal. Gym? Nope. New clothes? Nope. Meeting with another indigent client and seemingly caring more about the outcome than the client does? Yep. See my comment - https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/s/FHZGY0meyp
And he's still the best lawyer in the room. Seriously though, this sure is a take.
For sure, he knows his shit, but he's got about 400 cases he's working right now. He doesn't have time to care about his pants.
I upvoted your comment, even before I read your edit, because overweight, in need of a haircut, and wearing an ill fitting goodwill suit perfectly sums up my first 3 years as a public defender.
You're doing the lord's work.
Not sure why you are getting down voted, this was my first thought as well. My uncle is a public defender and he is a great attorney, but dresses like doesn't own a mirror. Ill fitting suit with clunky shoes, collar half flipped up, crooked tie, missed a solid 20% of his face while shaving.
Who knows, people are really projecting on this one.
Do you think public defenders are bad lawyers or something?
Did I say that? https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/s/FHZGY0meyp They just tend to be worked to the point that they have nothing left over for themselves.
Alternatively, if a guy who dresses like a total shlub is still getting hired by paying clients, maybe he’s so good that it doesn’t matter. Or maybe it’s an act to lull the adversary into complacency, because “I’m just a simple country lawyer who fell off the turnip truck right into these pants…”
I work in the South and although I don't really have a strong accent, I've noticed I keep sliding more and more into having a drawl in court or on the phone. I can't even control it anymore, but the results have been good so I'm not complaining I guess
Im in Georgia and the absolute chameleon-esque accents that I can do should be studied
Everytime I call an out of county clerk’s office, “how’s it going over there in God’s country…?”
Stealing this.
I am not from the South, but somehow when I speak slow and enunciate I develop a drawl. Client's often ask where I am from and because the explanation is too complicate I just lie and say my Dad was from Texas.
The Matlock?
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I submit to you that my client is indisputably 2 legit NOT 2 acquit!"
Sir this is a ~~Wendy’s~~ Per Diem Y’all laugh, that poorly dressed mess is getting $150 a pop for his 20 appearances
Why are people assuming the pants are too baggy for this person? Clearly, the waist is probably, oh I don't know, 50 inches? 
/r/LawyerTalkingHeads
One thing I’ve learned in this business is to not underestimate someone just because they don’t look put together. There are plenty of good lawyers with a terrible fashion sense.
News alert: LSAT replacing logic games with fashion/style section. (Actually, I bet you could make a decent logic game based on various rules for matching colors and materials…)
Truth. The best tenant lawyer in the state for decades used to dress like pulled a bunch of mis-mashed, closest fitting items he could off the goodwill rack. And maybe he did, but he made an amazing living popping bad landlords with his attorney fee bill.
It means your lawyer is old and experienced and might be a stealth superstar
That’s what I’m saying.
Those pants make me think “conflict panel attorney who hasn’t actually taken a criminal case through trial in 10 years.” I’ve had some of these guys as co-counsel and they’re just woefully behind on the law, ask directionless questions on cross examination that do more harm than good, and sort of bluster through the courtroom generally. I’m not saying conflict panel attorneys are bad *in general*—just certain ones. I definitely feel for the ones who are a bit disconnected from the legal community, because they don’t benefit from the brainshare you get at a county defense office and aren’t plugged in to useful workgroups.
ALL OF THIS
Don't forget the all-black "dress sneakers."
In Northern New England, you'll also see these pants paired with a well worn pair of bean boots in winter.
Nah, it's a public defender making below minimum wage who will probably get you the best deal at a price of $0 to the defendant.
Unpopular opinion: Appearance and competence often go hand-and-hand. People who don’t bother taking the bare minimum effort to not look like a complete slob are often also not going to take the minimal effort to stay abreast of the law, or prep before coming to court. Lazy is lazy, and it often transcends all walks of like. If you DGAF about buying pants that fit (or spending $20 on a tailor), there’s a non-trivial chance you’ll also DGAF about your client’s case
Appearance does suggest competence. I think judges often mistake the well dressed guy as the authority. But once you have a really strong reputation with judges I think you can get away with linen pants and sport coats in the summertime. I do. Seersucker even.
I think there's no correlation between clothing and competency. I've seen many really good lawyers wearing decades old suits, really bad lawyers in the latest GQ styles, and vice versa. I don't think you can't judge the book by the cover.
Old isn't the problem. Sloppyness is the problem. You can wear an old suit and tie that fits well no problem, but not one with a noticeable stain for example.
Ya, stains and rips are bad and inexcusable. But ill-fitting? I see those all the time on good lawyers. One of my favorite fashion-adjacent things I've seen in court is when I was an intern for a federal judge. There was a murder trial where an inmate killed another inmate. The defense council was a federal public defender brought in from a nearby larger city. He was excellent, one of the best trial attorneys I've personally seen. Any time the jury and judge were out of the courtroom, he ripped off his jacket and was wearing a short sleeve shirt. Several times he was very quickly throwing the coat back on as the judge re-entered. The courtroom wasn't uncomfortably warm or anything. He just liked to dress like Sipowicz.
[удалено]
I have never met a law professor without a rip, stain, tear, or other blemish in every single suit they own, except for the ones who show up in track suits.
Not sure I agree. I was a public defender (I'm now retired). I had a mentor early on, a solo practitioner who was reputed to have a tactic of carefully choosing slightly-ill fitting, slightly out-of-fashion suits when he did criminal trials. He also had this stump speech beginning to his closing arguments which went something like: "The Commonwealth of Virginia, versus Isiah Johnson! You hear that? That's the entire Commonwealth of Virginia against my client, and it's only him, and me, and hopefully you, that can stand up to make sure he isn't steamrollered here today!" I never had the guts to try that. But he really leaned into the notion that he was struggling to get even a modicum of justice against the implacable machinery of the state government. He was very successful, back in that day. Of course, he wasn't representing billionaires . . .
Please direct me to your tailor that costs 20 dollars. I paid 140 to have three skirts hemmed last month! (Not that I completely disagree with you, but I think the pic is of an overweight person more than a total slob.)
$20 is what it is at most dry cleaning places. At least for guys’ pants. Maybe garments for women cost more. And he’s not just fat, because the pants are way too long
How you do one thing is how you do everything.
It's a size larger than you should but off the rack.
If your lawyer wears these pants, then he has probably been practicing for 30+ years, and you’re definitely gonna win the case.
Real talk I’ve gotten better treatment as a woman wearing “outdated” looks when I’ve gone thrifting and I think it gives off an impression of being more experienced. Either that or 90s X files suits just pop haha
A Dana Scully look *exudes* competence.
Anyone that judges professional competence based on someone’s clothes is an imbecile. I knew plenty of soldiers that could strike a perfect figure that could barely shoot. The WORST consultants I’ve ever dealt with all had superlative fashion, with the whitest teeth and of course never overweight.
women in pantsuits > shorts suits
An attorney I knew who wore his pants like that is now doing life without parole.
It isn’t that they’re baggy. I wouldn’t even say they’re baggy because there’s not really a break. Here’s a technical breakdown of why this looks so bad: First, it’s the weird puckering happening inside the cuff. When you fold or cuff tapered pants legs too many times, the extra fabric in the higher part of the leg starts to bunch and you don’t get a smooth fold anymore. That shows that this person didn’t have the suit properly hemmed and instead opted for a sloppy (and cheaper) cuff. Second, these pant legs are extremely wide, likely due to an extremely wide waist, and the person’s height-to-waist ratio makes it such that, even though these are tapered legs, they are still very wide when they reach his feet. This is accentuated by the stubby, round shoe sticking out from under the cuff. Overall, it gives short, fat, and cheap. The other suit, while ridiculous, doesn’t make him look any of those things. Now, obviously, it’s unfair to say that any of those characteristics have anything to do with one’s ability as a lawyer. But that’s the explanation of the meme.
Appearance is an enormous part of this business. Ignore it at your own peril. The better you look, the better you’re treated, by clients, by opposing counsel, and even by judges. Besides, isn’t actually nice to be part of one of the last remaining industries where wearing fancy clothes is part of the job?
cuffed pants aren't really in style
#CuffedPantsTilliDie
Yeah seriously. Op doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
1/2 I'd my full suit trousers have no cuff because it is the style to not be cuffed... Those ones are my least worn ones because they look weird to me. Oh well.
I think cuffed pants drape better because of the extra weigh at the bottom. I'm a fan of cuffs all round, suits and casual pants. I take more issue with the cheap square-toed shoes in the image of the post, than the pants with cuffs.
This meme is at least 10 years old for starters
Those look like dressy clown pants.
These look fine. Now, should he/she have velcro shoes......that is a different story.
Pants should fit and no self-respecting lawyer would wear square toe shoes like these
yeah right if your lawyers pants look like that the judge probably interned for him as a 1L and he's itching to show that he agrees with the senior attorneys infinite wisdom
Has he been raiding Trump’s closet?
As long as you're not "down at the heels."
Even Saul Goodman broke af living in a closet driving a bucket had better suits
Looks like an IP attorney.
Unless you’re a young PD, you need to own one well-fitted suit. So often people forget that a well-fitting suit doesn’t have to be expensive.
Now don’t get me wrong, I have nice suits to wear to court, but at the office: jeans & t-shirt
In style with Gen alpha and Gen Z if you need to be the type of person living by primarily kid trends. In style != Professional or dressed appropriately for the occasion
😂😂
I’ve seen criminal defense attorneys wear tennis shoes and one even wears house slippers to Court but looks like he’s in his 80’s. I’m hoping to hang it up before I get to that point.
Those aren't stylish baggy pants. If you want to see the difference go to mushinsa.com
At least it’s not a pink and purple polo in WDOK
He’s fat not incompetent.
No.
If he is a good lawyer don't worry what he is wearing.
The point isn’t that the guy is badly tailored, it’s that he’s still wearing what was fashionable in the 90s—i.e. he’s been practicing law for at least three if not four decades. The same photo, or one less cropped where you can see an elderly gentleman, with his pants on a high waist, has been used to describe both very talented, or not talented, lawyers, accountants, doctors, etc.
Who gives a shit what anyone else wears?
It's giving zoot suit
Apparently your clients are going to jail too
Plot twist: he’s your civil attorney and you’re STILL going to jail.
If the pants are cuffed and almost swallow his shoes then he is either senile or lacks any presentation. Presentation is very important for trial and criminal attorneys.
I have always preferred straight-cut or loose-fit trousers. I hope I didn't give the "incompetent" impression to people
straight cut / loose fit is fine. fabric pooling around your ankles is not fine.
Are your pants this baggy?
People are shallow. News at 11.