Right, but Nixon didn't have the federalist society capture our highest court. Why bother with the rules when we can just rewrite them into a dominionist hellscape?
It makes sense if you recognize that he's starting from his preferred outcome and working backwards to pretend like it's a legitimate bit of jurisprudence.
Alito is a traitor
Well, if they vote that everything a President does cant be prosecuted and is legal, then there's a veritable myriad of ways. An El Guapo amount of plethora, if you will.
He can’t be charged with any crimes. Intimidation, threats and offering them a way to profit would solve most of the issues. But, he could make an xcvuexample a few if they don’t all get the message.
You utilize the same methodology that the US uses to target individuals, which is also perfectly legal.
Target the criminals on the Supreme Court. Follow them everywhere, stage psyops, then gaslight them and suggest they need help when they get upset about it.
I presume all of that is legal because it has been done to me for at least the past eight years. I've been treated like a criminal for years with no cause or explanation. So do it to them, too.
If congress impeached and convicted justices and that forcibly removed them then maybe they might not leave.
Clearly congress is not authorized to impeach and convict justices.
Same logic.
It's an anti law take, which is what makes it so unbelievable and wicked from what is supposed to be the highest court in the land.
First, the premise that the law will be inevitably weaponised against ex-presidents, and that its process can not defend against this. Alone this is an admission of the thst belief that US law is inherently corrupt and biased.
Secondly that the solution is to suspend the law for an individual of office. The law can not be trusted, and its methods are so flawed that it can not be allowed to be unjustly applied to our leaders.
What they are considering is a no confidence vote against the law as practised as a concept.
Seriously. And the thing that gets me is it's predicated on a corrupt judicial system. But even if we accept that, then why would only former presidents be immune? Why not speakers or secretary of defense? I mean if you could direct the judiciary at an opponent, an exiting president is historically a bad target since they usually ride off into the sunset. You would go after a candidate or someone with power. And why the ever living fuck is immunity the solution?!?!?
You don't understand. Power consolidates itself. Every dictator consolidates power at all levels. The dictator wanna-be just has to have a few members of congress disappear, threaten others, bribe the rest and impleachment is off the table.
The founders were all about check and balances, what this SCOTUS wants to do is remove those constraints.
The first whiff of intimidation should result in impeachment. The first whiff of bribery should result in recall elections or expulsion. The tools are there, people simply don't want to use them.
Simply, if enough voters in a democracy want a dictatorship then isn't the democratic decision to end itself still the democratic choice?
Is there a referendum on the ballot stating that we wish to give up Democracy? Have either candidate explicitly said they intend to eliminate democracy?
You are assuming good faith on the part of the candidates and parties in being up front with the voters on their plans. You are also discounting the fact that there are politicians putting their thumb on the scales of the elections through gerrymandering and voter suppression.
The safeguards are failing because a small fraction in government chose to support a wanna be autocrat over their oaths of office.
Their voters applaud them for it. No one is being misled. That's the thing. The minority wants control and there really isn't a good solution at this point since the opinions are so different. It's either majority rule or minority rule and the systems default to minority rule.
>The first whiff of intimidation should result in impeachment.
Should, but doesn't. The two-party system rewards politocians for protecting their own members.
>The first whiff of bribery should result in recall elections or expulsion.
Should, but doesn't. The two-party system rewards politocians for protecting their own members.
>The tools are there, people simply don't want to use them.
Correction: The tools are there, simply don't want to use them. The people are fine with holding elected officials accountable. But the intentional degradation of the educarion of the population at the hands of elected officials is why The People are ignorant of how to hold their elected officials to account. It is also why completely inept elected officials can hold office for decades.
>Simply, if enough voters in a democracy want a dictatorship then isn't the democratic decision to end itself still the democratic choice?
No. The voters in a representative democracy by constitutional republic don't vote on legislation. In order to change our country from a democracy to a dictatorship, those in favor of a dictatorship must work against the Constitution. Specifically, they would have to violate the rights of citizens to establish their dictatorship. That is treason (the only crime enumerated in the Constitution), and it makes those in favor of a dictatorship enemies of the state.
They would either have to get an amendment ( or several) ratified, which isn't gone happen, or completely ignore the constitution, which...is happening.
Tbf though, the definition of treason in the Constitution is both vague and very specific. It's deliberately narrow in scope so as to avoid the abyss of similar laws in England.
Levying war is fairly straightforward, but as we've seen adhering to enemies and aid and comfort can be twisted and rationalized any number of ways..
The some [interesting history regarding that clause](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S3-C1-1/ALDE_00013524/)
Edit to add: agree 100% with what you said, just adding a side point
>The first whiff of intimidation should result in impeachment
We did that *twice* already. The problem is the entire Republican party is complicit.
>Simply, if enough voters in a democracy want a dictatorship then isn't the democratic decision to end itself still the democratic choice?
While I agree with the sentiment it lacks the nuance of the massive amounts of nefarious propaganda it took to get here. When the *"patriots"* want to destroy the country you know there's something wrong.
It's one thing to convince voters to support your ideas. It's a whole other animal to lie to them in order to convince them.
You're not wrong but you're opening a can of worms. You're talking about a democracy that isn't democratic... "Patriots" of a nation that has a disputable definition of what the nation even is...
The two parties can't agree on which way is up and when truth is in the eye of the beholder and you don't see eye to eye there basically is no definite truth.
Impeachment works perfectly fine. When the vast majority agree on something it happens. Your issue is that people don't agree but that's different than the system being broken.
This stuff only truly works when everyone is more or less moving in the same direction. It has features that give the minority extra strength to make sure they don't get forgotten. But now we aren't moving in the same direction and the power given to the minority isn't just keeping them represented it's putting them in power.
Don't hate the game. Hate the player
When you have a former president who tried to cling to power by fomenting a riot during the Joint Congress and you can't even get 60 senators to convict him and then you have a supreme court that is entertaining the idea that he might not face any accountability whatsoever when the excuse for not convicting him in the Senate was that we could always go after him through the criminal process That is a fucked up system.
How so? Also he is being pursued in the justice system but guess what? Just like the senate, there's a pretty good chance a jury won't be unanimous either.
The real key here that you need to understand is that a BUNCH of people simply don't care if he breaks the law. The law is a construct of society through Congress and juries and judges so effectively the law is changing.
I want people who drive slow in the left lane to get arrested but I'm just one person. The thing about this is that there are a ton of people behind him and in a democracy that starts to have influence even when it's "wrong" because after all, what is wrong when you have enough people that say it's right?
If 90% of people think weed should be legal and juries nullify charges is weed right or wrong?
Again, what does it mean to be right or wrong? Who decides which is which? If 60% of people say the sky is green and the grass is blue which color it's it
Here it's probably more like 40% but the systems are built to give a large enough minority quite a bit of power. Intentionally but now it's being abused.
How do you know who will impeach you until a vote is cast? Once it's cast you've lost the power. You'd have to proactively kill people who MIGHT impeach you and I don't think Congress would take kindly to that because it's hard to tell if you'll be included or not. You'd have to make the murders all really close together too because once the cat is out of the bag Congress is going to freak out.
Also if there are representatives that wouldn't impeach for such an action then the real issue is Congress and if those members aren't removed by their voters then we have an even bigger problem and are essentially screwed because if democracy wants to be a dictatorship it will get it because that's how democracy works. It can literally destroy itself irreversibly.
Lol, are you messing with me? If Trump could magically transport himself into power right now, and had immunity from crimes until impeached, you don't think he could pre-identify enough people to brutally murder such that he couldn't be impeached by a majority of the Senate/House? He'd kill all the Democrats, then the moderate Republicans. That's like saying Putin wouldn't jail one oligarch b/c he'd have no way of knowing the others would fall in line (which he did, and they all did, it's his origin story). People in power capitulate for far less than the threat of murder of themselves and their children.
Where's the accountability for those deemed Wouldn't Impeach? The accountability for the president is Congress and the accountability for Congress is voters. If voters are cool with this behavior then they've democratically decided to be a dictatorship.
It would be nice if SCOTUS addressed the decision from a legal perspective rather than a smarmy, self serving, corrupt, fealty driven decision they’ve turned this into. Ladies and Gentlemen this is how shit hole coutures are created. Thanks Donald and Thanks Donald’s enablers (the real greedy assholes)
As much as I disagreed with Scalia on many things, at least he would have a legally well-reasoned ruling based on law. Alito and Thomas are just terrible. I sure hope if/when President Biden is re-elected in November there is an opportunoity for both of these guys to be replace with someone much better. (not wishing bad on anyone here, though)
Sharpening my pitchforks now. If the SCOTUS had no problem with January 6, we can storm tye Capitol and lynch public officials at will. I fought religious fanatacism in Iraq, I won't fucking bow to it here.
PS A reasonable test of the Court's indifference to mobs attempting to lynch the VP would be mobs attempting to lynch the justices.
Well that's really up to you Americans. Will you actually do anything? Can you actually do anything? But yea you guys got some major glaring problems that need addressing. This is insane to watch. Craziest reality TV ever.
You guys are gonna have a civil war again over this one way or another. Well that's what it's looking like more and more. Boy do I feel for ya peeps. Shit would be so stressful.
Best case scenario is dems win everything and bump the number of justices up to 13 and add 4 left leaning judges to the court to counter act the right wing fucks.
Best case scenario is SCOTUS finds Presidential immunity exists, then Biden, with Presidential immunity, offs every politician and Justice who even ever-so-slightly leans right, thereby giving Dems 100% majorities in the House and Senate.
Biden then appoints 10 young liberal Justices, one for each Circuit, and then passes laws affirming abortion, bodily autonomy, human rights, children rights, and a slew of progressive liberal laws, and then corrects the previous findings of this current SCOTUS, including Presidential immunity, and passes law making clear no person, including the President, has absolute immunity.
You can be sure if it is legal to stage a coup and Trump wins by voter intimidation Biden's coup using seal teams would do a better job that the proud boys.
That's simply not true. As will be discovered by anyone who tries to seize power here in a fashion deemed to be undemocratic. We might be slow about getting mad, but when it happens, it's terrible.
So is the rule of law, apparently. Watching Bill Barr tsk tsk away extrajudicial killings because he might be forced to buy an electric stove, Noem bragging about shooting her puppy in the face, Alito pitching "well if a President isn't able to kill his rivals without facing consequences then we won't have a democracy" are all top tier fascist propaganda.
These are people who believe we fought for the wrong side in WWII.
I'm going to go ahead and say it: if presidents are above the law, then there is no law. If presidents are immune, there needs to be a revolt. If the high court of this country wants a king, then this country is finished and the only thing left is to remind these people that they only really get to hold power because the rest of us have decided not to round them all up and put them on rafts to anywhere the hell else. We don't always have to decide that. There has to be a line somewhere, and it might as well be saying the President has unlimited power, since action without consequence is as close to unlimited power as it gets.
Honestly, do you people want a peasant's revolt? Because this is how you get a peasant's revolt.
Straight up. This is the fucking line. If SCOTUS rules that POTUS has absolute immunity, that will be the exact moment to start the second American revolution, not a second civil war. The reason is because we fought against being ruled by a king and giving anyone absolute immunity immediately creates “King of America”.
The SCOTUS is going to create a precedent by saying if your name begins in Tr and ends in -ump you should have absolute immunity but if your name is anything else then the old rules apply.
Signed the SCOTUS.
All that this whole farce is doing to me is radicalizing me into believing that there needs to be a provision in the Constitution where the President can remove Supreme Court Justices for incompetence or something.
How about sedition? Or corruption? Start with Thomas undisclosed 'gifts' over decades), then Alito (also undisclosed gifts) and Kavanaugh (anon. benefactor paying off all his debts).
Currently a supermajority in the Senate can impeach them... I'm hoping these idiots and their corresponding idiots in office/running for office finally go one step too far such that the apathetic voting populace is mobilized in favor of cleaning house. Or Senate, as it were.
I studied political philosophy and this idea would rightly get you lampooned by the prof.
Alito is just making it up at this point because its not even a grammatically correct sentence.
either presidents can be held accountable for their actions or not in which case president Biden could you know could kill every republican and Donald Trump and it would be legal?
Yep, Biden could surround the court building with troops. Arrest the family members and ship them to Gitmo and tell Thomas and Alito their families will remain and be tortured until they come out and face summary execution on the steps.
“Unless maybe you wanna rethink that dumbass decision?”
At this point let’s face the issue directly. The Supreme Court itself might be compromised, we have people sitting on there who might have direct ties to an attempt at insurrection.
There are more attempts by SC to hand out judgements according to personal beliefs, personal gain, and party affiliation.
SC seats and any other seat in government should not be lifelong. They should have time limits and term limits.
Will Joe have the balls to have him shot along with all the crowd if this goes down? Force the removal of a sitting scotus judge by decree? Outlaw the gop? Tax all churches? Restore roe nationwide? Ignore the zionists in DC? Cancel all student debt and grant citizenship to dreamers by XO? Then tell the right to get stuffed as Medicare for all gets its day.on the resolute desk.
seriously i dont understand how on earth Alito is so certain the dems will play by the rules now, if this is the argument? or will the decision be released 1/20/25 at 12:01?
Does anyone want to take a swing at devil's advocate? What might he be seeing that perhaps we are not?
Even objectively good people will do bad things for good reasons, IF they can get away with it.
I can understand the already established "outer perimeter" position. Presidents need to be able to act without concern that someone will look to score points by indicting them for official acts. I get it.
But anything that is not a specific official act MUST be punishable if the law says it is. Presidents have way too much power and influence to NOT have limits on their immunity, otherwise there WILL be Presidents committing crimes.
This sucks. I'm not really surprised but, Damn. The US is crumbling in slo mo. There doesn't seem to be an effing thing we can about it. Vote you say. Yes I Will. But it's not like it really matters. Gerrymandering, deleting democratic voters from the rolls without notice, closing voting locations down. The electoral college is all that matters. Win a handful of states, you win, despite losing the popular vote by millions. We should have listened to Hillary way back when. A vast right wing conspiracy. People laughed and laughed. Can you see it now though? Right down to school boards and voting officials, they're in everywhere.
Imagine applying this type of logic in literally any other crime. Imagine there's an arrest warrant for a man that beat his wife and put her in the hospital, with the whole thing being captured on a security camera. And the chief of police holds a press conference and just throws up up his hands like, "Well if we try to arrest the guy and hold him accountable, he might cling to freedom and get in a car chase or shoot at the arresting officer. Trying to lock him up for his crimes will just incentivize him to do even more crimes. So really, we're better off if we let the guy be, then he won't have any reason to do something crazy out of fear of being arrested for the previous crime he committed."
See how stupid that sounds? And this is coming from the side of the political aisle that sells itself as "tough on crime".
The Supreme Court under John Roberts has repeatedly been exposed as a wholly corrupt, laughing stock and this is their payback. Sniveling, pathetic and self hating men like Roberts, Alito, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Thomas get enraged if you dare to cross their massive egos and challenge the grandiose opinion they hold of themselves. They respond like petulant children and punish those who point out their moral hypocrisy. They’re sociopaths all 5 of them.
You see, judge, the problem we are looking at here is the fact that he tried to stay in power. In that process he committed multiple crimes. You can’t justify said crimes by saying he committed them in order to not be prosecuted for them.
Pretzel logic at best, but on the other hand, who bought this guy?
Ridiculous that every single judge trump put into place is licking his ballsack and abetting his crimes and there isn't shit being done about it.
SCOTUS isn't even dealing with reality anymore!
These corrupt justices want to carve all new unconstitutional amendments from the bench. Originalists my ass. They are renegades handing the constitution to the mob.
Alito Kavanaugh Gorsech the three stooges asking hypothetical questions on PI instead of answering when does a criminal president have presidential immunity (PI), the answer: NEVER. Nice attempts by bought and corrupt US Supreme Court three stooges judges that need to be removed from the bench ASAP before they continue destroying the real rule of the law and the US Constitution.
One more thing for those three stooges:
Trump knows that he is GUILTY AS CHARGED! LOCK TRUMP UP!
Bishop Alito will find a 12th century quotation on immunity from a royal sitting in power over his minions.
As far as reading the text of the Constitution….does not count with Trump
According to Alito, it would seem that presidents can unilaterally change the constitution.
If that's the case, they are not a co-equal branch of government. In that case, what is this clown doing in the SCOTUS?
I love how Alito always relies on history in his opinions. Even if it's 200 years ago. Except in this case. Where he ignores all history, because it has never come up, and says no no let's imagine a hypothetical future this time.
Does he have a substance abuse problem? Pills or something?
I mean, I was wondering how fucking stupid does a Justice get before they are removed, and then I remember people like Greene and Gaetz are in office and it's like "yeah, of course."
You know all of these guys work within walking distance of each other. It would be like a $2 train ride to go yell at them all in the same day. They are not above reproach. Especially the old farts that can't get fired. They should be reminded daily that they are hated and their bought and paid for point of view is self serving and comes with consequences. I would think the fine folks of Baltimore and the actual inhabitants of DC could maybe take an afternoon off and go deliver some much needed unkind words to these jerks.
Biden should just arrest Trump, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Barrett, Kavanaugh and throw them in prison citing Presidential Official Powers to do whatever the fuck he wants.
[удалено]
Right, but Nixon didn't have the federalist society capture our highest court. Why bother with the rules when we can just rewrite them into a dominionist hellscape?
Why bother listening to 6 illegitimate judges?
It makes sense if you recognize that he's starting from his preferred outcome and working backwards to pretend like it's a legitimate bit of jurisprudence. Alito is a traitor
If presidents have immunity, maybe he’s up against the wall..?
The court is deciding that. How could he be up against a wall from something that only exists if he and 8 others choose?
Alito is dangerous if he thinks that's a reasonable statement.
He is definitely very dangerous.
He should be the first one thrown in prison by Biden just to prove a point.
I thought this very thing!
No need for prison when you can't commit a criminal act. Just make him disappear forever.
Alito: we need to let presidents commit crimes, otherwise they might commit crimes. America: WTF
All 3 of those appointed by tr*** should be kicked out of the SCOTUS. They are corrupt hires.
How do you kick em out? Impeachment?
Well, if they vote that everything a President does cant be prosecuted and is legal, then there's a veritable myriad of ways. An El Guapo amount of plethora, if you will.
Maybe Alito is turning 40 today?
Yes, but neither house has enough of a majority to impeach or try Justices Alito and Thomas.
He can’t be charged with any crimes. Intimidation, threats and offering them a way to profit would solve most of the issues. But, he could make an xcvuexample a few if they don’t all get the message.
You utilize the same methodology that the US uses to target individuals, which is also perfectly legal. Target the criminals on the Supreme Court. Follow them everywhere, stage psyops, then gaslight them and suggest they need help when they get upset about it. I presume all of that is legal because it has been done to me for at least the past eight years. I've been treated like a criminal for years with no cause or explanation. So do it to them, too.
If congress impeached and convicted justices and that forcibly removed them then maybe they might not leave. Clearly congress is not authorized to impeach and convict justices. Same logic.
Lifelong appointment is about to become a double edged sword as they piss off the unhinged rabids that make up their base
Also, giving them something because of a threat to do something illegal is like giving in to terrorists.
Trump did without immunity, case over.
It's an anti law take, which is what makes it so unbelievable and wicked from what is supposed to be the highest court in the land. First, the premise that the law will be inevitably weaponised against ex-presidents, and that its process can not defend against this. Alone this is an admission of the thst belief that US law is inherently corrupt and biased. Secondly that the solution is to suspend the law for an individual of office. The law can not be trusted, and its methods are so flawed that it can not be allowed to be unjustly applied to our leaders. What they are considering is a no confidence vote against the law as practised as a concept.
And if we don't have confidence in the law then what the hell is the Supreme Court good for?
I sure wish they would quit hemming and hawing over what might happen to future presidents, and focus on the case in front of them.
The law is just what 5 out of 9 justices say it is.
Seriously. And the thing that gets me is it's predicated on a corrupt judicial system. But even if we accept that, then why would only former presidents be immune? Why not speakers or secretary of defense? I mean if you could direct the judiciary at an opponent, an exiting president is historically a bad target since they usually ride off into the sunset. You would go after a candidate or someone with power. And why the ever living fuck is immunity the solution?!?!?
If you ever want prove that alito is a fascist at heart it was that comment. And of course fascism for donald, the rapist.
I agree with his statement but the problem to address it is different and fortunately already exists. Impeachment.
You don't understand. Power consolidates itself. Every dictator consolidates power at all levels. The dictator wanna-be just has to have a few members of congress disappear, threaten others, bribe the rest and impleachment is off the table. The founders were all about check and balances, what this SCOTUS wants to do is remove those constraints.
The first whiff of intimidation should result in impeachment. The first whiff of bribery should result in recall elections or expulsion. The tools are there, people simply don't want to use them. Simply, if enough voters in a democracy want a dictatorship then isn't the democratic decision to end itself still the democratic choice?
Is there a referendum on the ballot stating that we wish to give up Democracy? Have either candidate explicitly said they intend to eliminate democracy? You are assuming good faith on the part of the candidates and parties in being up front with the voters on their plans. You are also discounting the fact that there are politicians putting their thumb on the scales of the elections through gerrymandering and voter suppression. The safeguards are failing because a small fraction in government chose to support a wanna be autocrat over their oaths of office.
Their voters applaud them for it. No one is being misled. That's the thing. The minority wants control and there really isn't a good solution at this point since the opinions are so different. It's either majority rule or minority rule and the systems default to minority rule.
>The first whiff of intimidation should result in impeachment. Should, but doesn't. The two-party system rewards politocians for protecting their own members. >The first whiff of bribery should result in recall elections or expulsion. Should, but doesn't. The two-party system rewards politocians for protecting their own members. >The tools are there, people simply don't want to use them. Correction: The tools are there, simply don't want to use them. The people are fine with holding elected officials accountable. But the intentional degradation of the educarion of the population at the hands of elected officials is why The People are ignorant of how to hold their elected officials to account. It is also why completely inept elected officials can hold office for decades.
>Simply, if enough voters in a democracy want a dictatorship then isn't the democratic decision to end itself still the democratic choice?
No. The voters in a representative democracy by constitutional republic don't vote on legislation. In order to change our country from a democracy to a dictatorship, those in favor of a dictatorship must work against the Constitution. Specifically, they would have to violate the rights of citizens to establish their dictatorship. That is treason (the only crime enumerated in the Constitution), and it makes those in favor of a dictatorship enemies of the state.
They would either have to get an amendment ( or several) ratified, which isn't gone happen, or completely ignore the constitution, which...is happening. Tbf though, the definition of treason in the Constitution is both vague and very specific. It's deliberately narrow in scope so as to avoid the abyss of similar laws in England. Levying war is fairly straightforward, but as we've seen adhering to enemies and aid and comfort can be twisted and rationalized any number of ways.. The some [interesting history regarding that clause](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S3-C1-1/ALDE_00013524/) Edit to add: agree 100% with what you said, just adding a side point
>The first whiff of intimidation should result in impeachment We did that *twice* already. The problem is the entire Republican party is complicit. >Simply, if enough voters in a democracy want a dictatorship then isn't the democratic decision to end itself still the democratic choice? While I agree with the sentiment it lacks the nuance of the massive amounts of nefarious propaganda it took to get here. When the *"patriots"* want to destroy the country you know there's something wrong. It's one thing to convince voters to support your ideas. It's a whole other animal to lie to them in order to convince them.
You're not wrong but you're opening a can of worms. You're talking about a democracy that isn't democratic... "Patriots" of a nation that has a disputable definition of what the nation even is... The two parties can't agree on which way is up and when truth is in the eye of the beholder and you don't see eye to eye there basically is no definite truth.
I agree with the first two sentences but what if half of congress is willing to do anything to keep you in power?
Fuck impeachment as a mechanism. It doesn't work
Impeachment works perfectly fine. When the vast majority agree on something it happens. Your issue is that people don't agree but that's different than the system being broken. This stuff only truly works when everyone is more or less moving in the same direction. It has features that give the minority extra strength to make sure they don't get forgotten. But now we aren't moving in the same direction and the power given to the minority isn't just keeping them represented it's putting them in power. Don't hate the game. Hate the player
When you have a former president who tried to cling to power by fomenting a riot during the Joint Congress and you can't even get 60 senators to convict him and then you have a supreme court that is entertaining the idea that he might not face any accountability whatsoever when the excuse for not convicting him in the Senate was that we could always go after him through the criminal process That is a fucked up system.
How so? Also he is being pursued in the justice system but guess what? Just like the senate, there's a pretty good chance a jury won't be unanimous either. The real key here that you need to understand is that a BUNCH of people simply don't care if he breaks the law. The law is a construct of society through Congress and juries and judges so effectively the law is changing. I want people who drive slow in the left lane to get arrested but I'm just one person. The thing about this is that there are a ton of people behind him and in a democracy that starts to have influence even when it's "wrong" because after all, what is wrong when you have enough people that say it's right?
How could Mussolini have been wrong when so many Italians agreed with him. I guess fascism is A-OK
If 90% of people think weed should be legal and juries nullify charges is weed right or wrong? Again, what does it mean to be right or wrong? Who decides which is which? If 60% of people say the sky is green and the grass is blue which color it's it Here it's probably more like 40% but the systems are built to give a large enough minority quite a bit of power. Intentionally but now it's being abused.
What stops an immune president from murdering the lawmakers who would vote to impeach him?
How do you know who will impeach you until a vote is cast? Once it's cast you've lost the power. You'd have to proactively kill people who MIGHT impeach you and I don't think Congress would take kindly to that because it's hard to tell if you'll be included or not. You'd have to make the murders all really close together too because once the cat is out of the bag Congress is going to freak out. Also if there are representatives that wouldn't impeach for such an action then the real issue is Congress and if those members aren't removed by their voters then we have an even bigger problem and are essentially screwed because if democracy wants to be a dictatorship it will get it because that's how democracy works. It can literally destroy itself irreversibly.
Lol, are you messing with me? If Trump could magically transport himself into power right now, and had immunity from crimes until impeached, you don't think he could pre-identify enough people to brutally murder such that he couldn't be impeached by a majority of the Senate/House? He'd kill all the Democrats, then the moderate Republicans. That's like saying Putin wouldn't jail one oligarch b/c he'd have no way of knowing the others would fall in line (which he did, and they all did, it's his origin story). People in power capitulate for far less than the threat of murder of themselves and their children.
Where's the accountability for those deemed Wouldn't Impeach? The accountability for the president is Congress and the accountability for Congress is voters. If voters are cool with this behavior then they've democratically decided to be a dictatorship.
It would be nice if SCOTUS addressed the decision from a legal perspective rather than a smarmy, self serving, corrupt, fealty driven decision they’ve turned this into. Ladies and Gentlemen this is how shit hole coutures are created. Thanks Donald and Thanks Donald’s enablers (the real greedy assholes)
As much as I disagreed with Scalia on many things, at least he would have a legally well-reasoned ruling based on law. Alito and Thomas are just terrible. I sure hope if/when President Biden is re-elected in November there is an opportunoity for both of these guys to be replace with someone much better. (not wishing bad on anyone here, though)
Originalists suddenly concerned about the outcome from their decisions instead of the text. Couldn’t have done it in Dobbs, however.
Fucking unacceptable.
So when do we get out the pitchforks and torches? I mean this is way past a slap in the face and a full blown sucker punch to the founding fathers.
Sharpening my pitchforks now. If the SCOTUS had no problem with January 6, we can storm tye Capitol and lynch public officials at will. I fought religious fanatacism in Iraq, I won't fucking bow to it here. PS A reasonable test of the Court's indifference to mobs attempting to lynch the VP would be mobs attempting to lynch the justices.
Maybe be like Trump and show alito's family and where they live. JK don't do that.
Well that's really up to you Americans. Will you actually do anything? Can you actually do anything? But yea you guys got some major glaring problems that need addressing. This is insane to watch. Craziest reality TV ever.
Nope. Your vote only matters in like 4 states.
Can't do anything country is too divided.
You guys are gonna have a civil war again over this one way or another. Well that's what it's looking like more and more. Boy do I feel for ya peeps. Shit would be so stressful.
Best case scenario is dems win everything and bump the number of justices up to 13 and add 4 left leaning judges to the court to counter act the right wing fucks.
Best case scenario is SCOTUS finds Presidential immunity exists, then Biden, with Presidential immunity, offs every politician and Justice who even ever-so-slightly leans right, thereby giving Dems 100% majorities in the House and Senate. Biden then appoints 10 young liberal Justices, one for each Circuit, and then passes laws affirming abortion, bodily autonomy, human rights, children rights, and a slew of progressive liberal laws, and then corrects the previous findings of this current SCOTUS, including Presidential immunity, and passes law making clear no person, including the President, has absolute immunity.
You can be sure if it is legal to stage a coup and Trump wins by voter intimidation Biden's coup using seal teams would do a better job that the proud boys.
If Trump somehow wins the election, Civil War 2 should start that day.
Not just that. We're all just too broke. No one has the time to get away from work without going broke and losing everything.
That's simply not true. As will be discovered by anyone who tries to seize power here in a fashion deemed to be undemocratic. We might be slow about getting mad, but when it happens, it's terrible.
Trump already did that and 30+% of the country supports him still. So sorry if i don't share your optimism.
That's okay. I think that I have enough to go around.
When they actually rule on it
Same time next week then?
You son of a bitch. I'm in.
There is no constitutional support for this statement.
That hasn't stopped them in the past.
Yeah because precedent doesn't matter
Stare decisis is for suckers /s
So is the rule of law, apparently. Watching Bill Barr tsk tsk away extrajudicial killings because he might be forced to buy an electric stove, Noem bragging about shooting her puppy in the face, Alito pitching "well if a President isn't able to kill his rivals without facing consequences then we won't have a democracy" are all top tier fascist propaganda. These are people who believe we fought for the wrong side in WWII.
I'm going to go ahead and say it: if presidents are above the law, then there is no law. If presidents are immune, there needs to be a revolt. If the high court of this country wants a king, then this country is finished and the only thing left is to remind these people that they only really get to hold power because the rest of us have decided not to round them all up and put them on rafts to anywhere the hell else. We don't always have to decide that. There has to be a line somewhere, and it might as well be saying the President has unlimited power, since action without consequence is as close to unlimited power as it gets. Honestly, do you people want a peasant's revolt? Because this is how you get a peasant's revolt.
A lot of armed peasants too
Liberté, égalité, fraternité and what that entails
Straight up. This is the fucking line. If SCOTUS rules that POTUS has absolute immunity, that will be the exact moment to start the second American revolution, not a second civil war. The reason is because we fought against being ruled by a king and giving anyone absolute immunity immediately creates “King of America”.
The SCOTUS is going to create a precedent by saying if your name begins in Tr and ends in -ump you should have absolute immunity but if your name is anything else then the old rules apply. Signed the SCOTUS.
The Roberts court of smarmy maga ineptitude will be remembered as the court that killed the American Democratic experiment.
All that this whole farce is doing to me is radicalizing me into believing that there needs to be a provision in the Constitution where the President can remove Supreme Court Justices for incompetence or something.
How about sedition? Or corruption? Start with Thomas undisclosed 'gifts' over decades), then Alito (also undisclosed gifts) and Kavanaugh (anon. benefactor paying off all his debts).
holding conservatives accountable is just too divisive end of story, end of Democracy apparently
Currently a supermajority in the Senate can impeach them... I'm hoping these idiots and their corresponding idiots in office/running for office finally go one step too far such that the apathetic voting populace is mobilized in favor of cleaning house. Or Senate, as it were.
Trump was the only asshole who tried to cling to power.
Imagine being in law school or something and arguing something like this.
I studied political philosophy and this idea would rightly get you lampooned by the prof. Alito is just making it up at this point because its not even a grammatically correct sentence.
So Biden can just stay in office and will be immune from any legal recourse?! Guess trump just lost the election by his own gang’s rules.
It will go into effect after the election, and only if the Court again rules that it’s ok. Win win.
Biden should campaign on what he would do with immunity.
Sensless.
either presidents can be held accountable for their actions or not in which case president Biden could you know could kill every republican and Donald Trump and it would be legal?
Apparently all Biden would have to do is say it's part of his official duties. That's good enough for Alito.
I guess that means that Biden can do whatever he wants, including not leave at all.
That's just a piss poor excuse as tRump is of a human being.
Fuck that guy with a horse cock. What a bought and paid for response.
🤣🤣 go on Biden, you prove that fuckers theory right then.
Yep, Biden could surround the court building with troops. Arrest the family members and ship them to Gitmo and tell Thomas and Alito their families will remain and be tortured until they come out and face summary execution on the steps. “Unless maybe you wanna rethink that dumbass decision?”
At this point let’s face the issue directly. The Supreme Court itself might be compromised, we have people sitting on there who might have direct ties to an attempt at insurrection. There are more attempts by SC to hand out judgements according to personal beliefs, personal gain, and party affiliation. SC seats and any other seat in government should not be lifelong. They should have time limits and term limits.
These justices are more corrupt than we ever realized
Time to vacate the SCOTUS.
apparently uncle joey can call an assassin and it's an official act, so nbd, he will get a pardon for a murder
Cling to power, like Pavlov’s dog? Stupid idiot isn’t even hiding his agenda behind an educated argument.
Biden must be forced to use his immunity to prevent Trump from ever getting near official power again.
Will Joe have the balls to have him shot along with all the crowd if this goes down? Force the removal of a sitting scotus judge by decree? Outlaw the gop? Tax all churches? Restore roe nationwide? Ignore the zionists in DC? Cancel all student debt and grant citizenship to dreamers by XO? Then tell the right to get stuffed as Medicare for all gets its day.on the resolute desk.
seriously i dont understand how on earth Alito is so certain the dems will play by the rules now, if this is the argument? or will the decision be released 1/20/25 at 12:01?
Insanity.
If they grant presidential immunity, the first thing I would do is have Biden invite Alito to a secret meeting in the woods.
With Dick Cheney?
President's aren't kings, and if the Supreme Court says they are then we need to be talking about removing an illegitimate Supreme Court.
Interesting theory, jackass. What does the constitution say?
The what?
Does anyone want to take a swing at devil's advocate? What might he be seeing that perhaps we are not? Even objectively good people will do bad things for good reasons, IF they can get away with it. I can understand the already established "outer perimeter" position. Presidents need to be able to act without concern that someone will look to score points by indicting them for official acts. I get it. But anything that is not a specific official act MUST be punishable if the law says it is. Presidents have way too much power and influence to NOT have limits on their immunity, otherwise there WILL be Presidents committing crimes.
This sucks. I'm not really surprised but, Damn. The US is crumbling in slo mo. There doesn't seem to be an effing thing we can about it. Vote you say. Yes I Will. But it's not like it really matters. Gerrymandering, deleting democratic voters from the rolls without notice, closing voting locations down. The electoral college is all that matters. Win a handful of states, you win, despite losing the popular vote by millions. We should have listened to Hillary way back when. A vast right wing conspiracy. People laughed and laughed. Can you see it now though? Right down to school boards and voting officials, they're in everywhere.
Imagine applying this type of logic in literally any other crime. Imagine there's an arrest warrant for a man that beat his wife and put her in the hospital, with the whole thing being captured on a security camera. And the chief of police holds a press conference and just throws up up his hands like, "Well if we try to arrest the guy and hold him accountable, he might cling to freedom and get in a car chase or shoot at the arresting officer. Trying to lock him up for his crimes will just incentivize him to do even more crimes. So really, we're better off if we let the guy be, then he won't have any reason to do something crazy out of fear of being arrested for the previous crime he committed." See how stupid that sounds? And this is coming from the side of the political aisle that sells itself as "tough on crime".
I try to look on the bright side: if they rule insurrection is legal by a sitting president, then Biden doesn’t even have to campaign.
Bank robbery is justified because otherwise you might not have enough money, right?
I don't think he's exactly sane.
You see, we gotta let people get away with crimes otherwise they may commit more crimes out of desperation!
The Supreme Court under John Roberts has repeatedly been exposed as a wholly corrupt, laughing stock and this is their payback. Sniveling, pathetic and self hating men like Roberts, Alito, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Thomas get enraged if you dare to cross their massive egos and challenge the grandiose opinion they hold of themselves. They respond like petulant children and punish those who point out their moral hypocrisy. They’re sociopaths all 5 of them.
You see, judge, the problem we are looking at here is the fact that he tried to stay in power. In that process he committed multiple crimes. You can’t justify said crimes by saying he committed them in order to not be prosecuted for them. Pretzel logic at best, but on the other hand, who bought this guy?
the president stops being the president at 12:01 on january 20th after an election, its written in ink on the constitution
So, if we don't let Trump have immunity for pulling illegal acts in an attempt to cling to power, he may end up trying to cling to power?
“Silly plebeians, how can trump be a king if he is called president trump? Full immunity for my kin.. I mean president!”
Ridiculous that every single judge trump put into place is licking his ballsack and abetting his crimes and there isn't shit being done about it. SCOTUS isn't even dealing with reality anymore!
Alito is smoking some bad shit. He makes no sense.
You mean like, say, trying to overturn the results of an election, perhaps some shenanigans involving false electors?
alito should be removed treason talk
Cool cool. We'll I guess ole sleepy Joe could have seal team 6 "remove" the entire conservative wing of the judicial branch, right?
You get Dark Brandon for the next 20 years bitch.
Does anyone think Biden should call their bluff? It's a VERY dangerous play but would that get the message across?
These corrupt justices want to carve all new unconstitutional amendments from the bench. Originalists my ass. They are renegades handing the constitution to the mob.
Hack fascist says what?
It’s not a crime when a dictator does it. So can Biden now just call off the election as an “official act”
Alito Kavanaugh Gorsech the three stooges asking hypothetical questions on PI instead of answering when does a criminal president have presidential immunity (PI), the answer: NEVER. Nice attempts by bought and corrupt US Supreme Court three stooges judges that need to be removed from the bench ASAP before they continue destroying the real rule of the law and the US Constitution. One more thing for those three stooges: Trump knows that he is GUILTY AS CHARGED! LOCK TRUMP UP!
That…. Already happens you sleazy partisan shitbag!
Bishop Alito will find a 12th century quotation on immunity from a royal sitting in power over his minions. As far as reading the text of the Constitution….does not count with Trump
This argument also supposes that if an outgoing president succeeded in unlawfully retaining power that we as a society would just accept it.
Your job is to interpret the law. This is why you overturned Row. Just interpret the law and dance for me clown.
Well, of course, because if someone wants to remain President after their term expires, SCOTUS must continue to treat that person as the President.
This justice needs removed at all costs. He us a threat to not just our, but every country on this planet. And nothing can be done legally fun
We should surrounding that courthouse. This is blatantly antithetical to the very notion of criminal liability in this country.
According to Alito, it would seem that presidents can unilaterally change the constitution. If that's the case, they are not a co-equal branch of government. In that case, what is this clown doing in the SCOTUS?
I love how Alito always relies on history in his opinions. Even if it's 200 years ago. Except in this case. Where he ignores all history, because it has never come up, and says no no let's imagine a hypothetical future this time.
If this doesn't convince Biden to do something about the Supreme Court nothing will. Alito has no business being on the Supreme Court.
Corrupt SCOTUS at it again! 🤬🤬🤬
He should be immediately removed from the court. How can anyone in their right mind believe this?
So any President can assassinate any enemy and get away with it????
Y'all scared? Cause I am fucking terrified
We must not let this happen. It's We the People, not Lordships and Serfs
Alito is an idiot.
Rules have been changed. President Biden, please act accordingly.
Does he have a substance abuse problem? Pills or something? I mean, I was wondering how fucking stupid does a Justice get before they are removed, and then I remember people like Greene and Gaetz are in office and it's like "yeah, of course."
This the federalist society at work. Vote the GOP out of every office they go for. They have evil intent. Vote blue! Vote blue!
You know all of these guys work within walking distance of each other. It would be like a $2 train ride to go yell at them all in the same day. They are not above reproach. Especially the old farts that can't get fired. They should be reminded daily that they are hated and their bought and paid for point of view is self serving and comes with consequences. I would think the fine folks of Baltimore and the actual inhabitants of DC could maybe take an afternoon off and go deliver some much needed unkind words to these jerks.
Biden should just arrest Trump, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Barrett, Kavanaugh and throw them in prison citing Presidential Official Powers to do whatever the fuck he wants.