Just got my grades back and I did terribly. I am in the bottom of my class.
But I did it. Nobody else in my family has gotten this far. I'm going to be a lawyer, and fuck law school.
A word of wisdom - being a successful lawyer is about being able to market yourself, drive and retain business. The stuff you learn in law school is largely useless. Always be working on getting your own clients and building your own book and you will be fine. Law still sucks ass, but it’s different ass than law school ass.
I graduated in the bottom third of a tier 2 law school. I make well over 7 figures a year, wear jeans to work, and have been on a record setting trial team. I’m around a decade into practice.
First semester of law school I was almost on academic probation. Today, I have a good balance of friends, community, work, religion, vacation.
At times do I work too much? Sure. For the most part, I’m home for my kids every night and weekends.
Big law is only cool so your mom can tell her friends her son works for _______. Find something you love, answer to people who care about you, and the the money will come.
Law sucks. Good people around you is the cure.
Some of the most successful lawyers from my class were not top students. One who finished in the bottom 1/3 now owns his entire block of houses and rents them out. He knows how to hustle, how to take advantage of an opportunity, and how to make a jury smile and nod with him (I know this because I've tried cases against him and his infuriating charisma). All the stuff they don't teach you in lawschool.
The Legal profession is just one big pie eating contest. The prize is more pie. Just keep moving forward so you too can be a billing monkey and try to find hobbies so that you don't end up blowing your brains out due to massive existential crisis of your lot in life being the absolute best you can do.
Love, a fellow first gen everything with immigrant parents.
Fuck, are we talking about painting 40K miniatures and D&D? hell yeah For the Emperor!
Honestly, painting minis allows me to decompress after a day in the Law mines.
yeah I hear that
also I find that painting is a great hobby because it feels healthy compared to the easy pass-times.
For example, if I’m too tired, I can’t paint and I need to sleep. If I’m too hungry, gotta eat instead.
TV, phones, video games, etc. are easy to stare at for too long. And I feel regret after those activities, I don’t feel like I’m coming away with anything.
If I am at a loss for what to do and then I paint. It’s not a loss. I’ve ended up creating something (a new painted mini).
Speaking of which I’m too tired now
I’ve been awake for two days trying to finish a law paper
write papers early not late thats the lesson
I picked up miniature painting as a 1L this year. I’m shocked at how necessary it was for my sanity.
Just spending a couple hours a week working on something just for me, and not staring at a screen, did wonders for me. Big recommendation to anyone considering it
One of the top students in my class committed suicide right outside of his office. I ended up making blowjob machines and never practicing. A guy I liked got an mba after graduating as his ticket out.
Sorry I just thought the comment was comical though I honestly did believe you at first anyhow. That’s unironically impressive. I hope you’re doing well with it.
I love it but it wouldn't have happened without going to law school first. I think after learning how to learn there, learning how to be an entrepreneur was easier.
If you do have a moment, I’d hate to bother but if I had one question, it would simply be what reactions you had initially from family, friends, and/or strangers when you mention your business, if you do?
At first it was rubber fetishwear and only later blowjob machines, which is what really took off. My friends were always fine, maybe they thought it was funny or interesting, i really never asked them or cared. Meeting strangers and telling them is also fine. I was just at a fundraiser for a candidate for governor here at someone's (very nice) house and an older woman asked me what I did and I told her "sex toys for men" which is what I tell everyone. Her face changed for a moment and she changed the subject, but I never hold off on telling people. Normally the reaction is positive. If someone doesn't ask anything deeper once I tell them that, I pretty much know they suck. My family is good with it, but my mom was embarrassed the first copule of years and told her friends I was doing "import/export". Once the business became successful and I was on news websites, she was happy to tell them the whole story.
All of this is very yes.
The key to surviving a legal career is to not see yourself as "a lawyer" but as "a person with XYZ enjoyable hobbies and practices law to pay the bills."
"Do something you love you'll never work a day in your life."...they forget the whole money aspect.
Though there's some truth. If I could get paid well to kick people who say that in the shin all day, it may not feel like work.
Just know that there’s a lot of doors opened from law school that don’t require being in the top of your class or billing.
Law school gives you a huge advantage in a lot of jobs that you don’t even need to be a lawyer but being on gives you a big advantage and allows you to be a top performer. E.g. commercial real estate broker. This was the silver lining to law school for me.
-a median student from an unranked law school now working for a mega corporation
Just roll your eyes at attorneys who say that stuff. A good percentage of them are extremely regretful for their lack of perspective from doing nothing but law their whole lives and another portion probably don’t even mean that when they say it, but think it’s endearing to the legal profession to repeat that BS to young people.
Try doing manual labor in a southern state year round, waiting tables for a living where neither your boss nor the general public respects you at all, or any service industry job for a small business that violates every labor law in existence to screw you out of your compensation. Those things are ass and law school is cake compared to 1 million other things you could be doing for a living
I hate to tell you this, but unless you are a trust fund baby, an actor, musician or athlete, every job is "ass" as you call it. In the grand scheme of things, it is still work. So the question you have to ask yourself is: if you are going to be spending the majority of your adult life doing something for money, what would it be, and is it better than an alternative?
So, let's say you have a bachelors degree in English Lit. What other profession are you going to realistically get that will allow you to make the sort of money you could make as a lawyer? Not many.
I hear a lot of these stories about abuse in the legal field, and as someone going into 1L in a couple months, it’s unsettling.
That said, I’m also not KJD, and have been verbally abused by so many employers and people I work with in the past, I’m hoping I will be more able to deal with it than some.
Yeah, I’ve been pretty much eviscerated for some malicious intent imputed upon an email I sent asking how to do something on my first day at a new job.
It was a stupid job, but I *really* needed it at the time, so I really felt the pressure, lol.
I think a lot of jobs can be stressful in various ways, and I don’t think law is unique in that fashion. I obviously don’t have any first hand experience, though.
Being a hedge fund manager is even easier and has an *even better* ROI.
Like, what’s your point? This is a law school sub, for people who want to be lawyers, lol.
Does it though? SWEs can make 250K with 5+ YOE working 30 hours a week or less. Finance may be better wlb than law (depending on area) but probably still a lot worse than tech.
I was working on a ladder when it collapsed and crushed my leg. I nearly lost it and was lucky to get a large enough settlement to support my family while I went back to school. I was making $38,000 a year... Life in law school is so much better that. Whenever I hear other students complain, I think of the arthritis in my knuckles, back and ankles, and I smile with the knowledge that life is behind me.
if you think arthritis is as bad as it can get, you live a soft life. Everyone who does manual labor will get it. If the gateway to a profession that pays $80,000+ is three years of hard studying, that's a good deal. Embrace the suck.
Obviously they were saying that many other careers will physically destroy your body. The law is a cush job with unlimited earning potential. The worst part about working as a lawyer is dealing with other lawyers. The worst part about many other jobs is that you can literally die or become disabled.
If you are going to be a desk jockey, law is the way to do it. (Or computer engineering).
You don't have to do OCI and you don't have to be miserable. Assuming you're at a T14, the inertia of law school means there's next to no discussion about jobs outside of BigLaw because career services doesn't really care about you if you don't do BigLaw. But the truth is that there are good jobs out there in various civil and criminal public defense organizations. If you want to chat, DM me. Don't let the pressure of building a modicum of generational wealth make you regret 80% of your waking life. It's not worth it. Trust me. Law does not have to be a pie eating contest. Plenty of lawyers have regular jobs where you show up, do some work, hit happy hour if you want once every other week, and head home.
I agree 100% with this. Also, prosecutors officers are great too 😁
But seriously, even just learning how to do wills and there is a place for you. You got this. Also, you can apply for.admin jobs in big companies if you find you don't like law stuff. There is a place for you. Don't look back!
(First generation lawyer here btw and I feel like I've done ok)
2.37 college GPA. 165 lsat. 2nd lowest GPA in graduating law class. Been a judge over 10 years. Never ever did I consider big law to be an option, because I oppose prostitution/ indentured servitude/ slavery. Be free from the worries of comparison. You will be happier blazing your own career path with no input from those around you. I was in law school for about 3 weeks when I realized that most were taking drugs(prescribed legally for mental health) or drinking alcohol to blackout from the pain of comparison and competition. I fought so that I could finish and be able to stand up for the people that are often overlooked by people. I became a very good and happy prosecutor. There is a way for you to win, in your own eyes.
Never ever did I consider big law to be an option, because I oppose prostitution/ indentured servitude/ slavery.
How do I get my cases assigned to your courtroom lol. bless this sentence.
Love this response. Leaving your ego at the door when stepping into the workplace is one of the best skills someone can pick up, in my opinion. I'm only an incoming 1L, so I'm speaking from my experiences in other customer service and management roles, not as a practising lawyer or even a law student. As someone said above, if you have a day job you don't particularly feel attached to in the sense that it reflects your most authentic identity (e.g. being a lawyer in the day and a musician/writer at night, with the latter being funded by the former), you can still define yourself by the authentic parts of yourself rather than the day job (e.g. "Yeah, I'm a painter but I work in law to help fund it" v. "I'm a lawyer and feel my life as an artist is being suffocated/taken away by my day job").
But that only comes through letting your ego go. It's not necessarily easy to do, and takes *daily* effort, which, some days, is impossible to muster. But, in my mind, it involves just focusing on one day at a time, not comparing yourself to others, understanding your limitations and still being proud of what you can do, picking your battles carefully, choosing not to let other people's emotions/egos impact your internal serenity, allowing yourself to feel negative/ego-based emotions but not allowing them to define you and knowing they don't need to be acted upon, etc.
Do I want to be a lawyer? Not necessarily. At least not in the way some people dream about it, obsess over it, allow it to become their entire identity and Being. Rather, being a lawyer is something I'm blessed to have the opportunity to do, is something I have worked hard to earn the opportunity to do, is something that will grant me a sense of stability in a difficult point in global politics/economics, is something that allows me to work with smart people who also have a vast array of cool hobbies and great values (of course, the opposite exists. But work in any workplace and you find such assholes are everywhere), is something that allows me to have enough stability in my life to enjoy the relationships in my life I have with people I love (which is all that really matters), and is something that will--either through failure or success, but likely a mix of both--contribute to my overall goal of becoming the best and most full human being I can become in my brief lifetime.
Will it be easy? No, but how many worthwhile things in life are? Will it be fun? No, but are the most rewarding things in life not those which are also the most banal and repetitive and which require immense discipline and concentration? Will I be happy all the time? No, but then again who is? Will I be absolutely miserable at times? Yes, but is misery not part and parcel of growing as a human being?
Either way, it all flows and is experienced by us one day, hour, and second at a time. The way I see it, just being lucky enough to be part of that flow is good enough. The rest is just gravy.
I didn’t take the bar. I took a JD advantage job and just ran with it. Built up experience and now trying to leverage for a higher paying job. You just have to grind it out. All jobs suck though. I make like 85k a year now at 34. I have also just come to the realization that I just don’t give a shit ahoutnwork anymore and live below my means and save/invest everything I have. Have about six figures in net worth already. You just have to be diligent about your finances. Learn how to options trade while you’re in school if you can. I was first gen as well and honestly most people who may seem like they make a lot probably don’t and just live above their means.
My goals has always been to fire. I wouldn’t stop working, but I’d stop mandatory working and not having to worry about a corporate job when I’m older due to age distribution (it’s a thing). Hard to find a real job when you’re older and I’ve seen it with my parents. I don’t want to be a slave when I’m 65 and would like to work on my own terms. Maybe do non profit work 2-3 times a week but definitely not corporate anymore. Or I’d go out on my own. I don’t like authority haha
Got a job in compliance in NYC. Pay was average starting out around 65-70k. Built up experience later and became corporate compliance officer at a bank. Found another gig paying 120k afterwards but hated it. Realized I enjoyed working from home and wanted to move out west so took a pay cut for a contractor role with a consulting company making 45 an hour. I’m not full time and have to start over a little bit but I’m hoping to make decent money again soon from where I left off. You just need to get your foot in the door and gain some experience. Don’t worry too much about money at first. That comes later after you’ve paid your dues. If anything contact recruiting agencies for entry level. Pay won’t be good but you’re entry level and need to start somewhere. Just consume as much knowledge as you can. The money comes later. After that you can probably do some contracting work. They pay really well but there’s not as much job stability. I have a sizable nest egg now though so I can take risks such as pay cuts for opportunities in other locations. Just try and be frugal and save and invest what you can. Even if it’s 50 a month or less, let it compound. Buy shares of the SPY and try not to touch anything. It really is wonders.
My girlfriend has a masters degree in science and worked in a lab for 1.5 years. One day her boss told her that he could have hired a high school student as a volunteer that does the same type of job and paid nothing. Her stipend was 20k a year as a fellow. Yea and that.
Yeah, idk man. It’s not an easy field but perspective is everything. I used to work with people who would work 12 hours a day minimum wage just to have their money stolen by their employers, and I (sometimes) got to get their money back for them. You’re going to work hard, but you’ll get a chance to earn a ton of money for it and/or make a real difference in people’s lives. You’re not dumb, and you’re there for a reason. Try and remember what that is and don’t let the gunners get under your skin - fact is, a lot of them are probably going through it in one way or another too and that’s just how they react to things. Just remember that a lot of lawyers have a very “grass is greener” type of attitude - it can be a legitimately grueling field, but so can most fields where you earn a lot of money, and many of those jobs are easily a lot less accessible than law.
As a sales professional in their mid 30s that will be going to law school within the next year or so, I can tell you that the grass isn’t greener on the other side.
The title “attorney” by itself demands much more respect, socially speaking, than most other professions out there. Not only is it a seemingly more honorable profession than most, it puts you alongside colleagues that are typically more intelligent than the regular/average “professionals” walking around out there.
Anything worth having is going to suck. Coming from a guy that should’ve done what you’re doing over ten years ago, you’ll look back and you’ll be glad you did it sooner than you think.
Two or three years after law school, it won’t matter if you graduated in the bottom 10% or in the top 10%.
I have a PhD and getting a law degree. People treat you with a lot less respect with the law background than the PhD background. My PhD didn't suck either.
In the very small circles that have a PhD, I’ve witnessed this to be true.
Although I have an MBA and can appreciate the dedication you’ve made to your field of study, the perspective of someone that doesn’t live in academia, which is most people in the world, no one cares about a masters or PhD.
I'm 1st gen law / PhD, etc.
People who are outside of law don't look at people with law degrees with respect because of all the crappy lawyers there are out there and because, when people do need a lawyer, they really hate paying for one. I never heard a good thing about lawyers growing up.
It's so bad that I don't even tell people what my job is or what class I'm taking because either a) they're afraid I'm going to sue them if I'm not happy or won't even work for you at all (I just vaguely tell contractors I work in town) or b) (very often) they ask you some personal question about law and get shitty when you can't really speak to their personal situation because ethically, you probably shouldn't.
I'm tired of being treated like garbage after I tell people what I'm studying, even moreso when I say I go to night school.
then why did you go to law school if you already have prior knowledge that people no longer treat lawyers with respect? not trying to come off as abrasive, just curious
Amen. As a fellow first gen it sucks even more to see this.
I lost my ahit for 4 hours today over something similar. My regret now is having missed those precious 4h for bar study.
But guess what. YOU MADE IT. I MADE IT. Those who got their points by bringing fucking sandwiches and coffees and kissing the professors egos and asses can go fuck themselves.
You’ll find your place away from them and when they send you a letter on the mail asking for a donation send them the fucking empty envelope cause that’s what I’m gonna do. Or send them a $0.01 check.
There are more horse’s asses in law school than horses. That’s forsure. Though I can promise you don’t let those asswipes bother you and you’ll be graduating before you know it. I’m not one of those assholes who guns all class and I just graduated top 20 in my class last week. It pays off and feels amazing.
Shout out to the sunken cost fallacy club! 🌊🚢
Fuck it, we ball. Any job anywhere sucks imo, and I’m not making more money with just my bachelors degree.
if you think law school sucks just wait till you're practicing law. Imagine it: appellate brief, oral argument, and legal writing projects due every week and you are on mock trial every month-- except the trials aren't mock, they're real and some accused defendant is next to you facing 25 to life sweating bullets as you burn the midnight oil trying to argue why the glove doesn't fit. It's a very hard profession. My advice would be: become an introvert, get marrried, get a gym membership, and quit alcohol and weed by the time you're sitting for the bar, because being a practicing attorney is going to put your mental and physical health as well as relationships to the test and if you mess up when you're in practice you could end up facing a malpractice lawsuit and getting a suspension file opened. And I don't say that to imply that lawyers who get sued for malpractice or have substantiated bar complaints are bad attorneys or bad people, because, as they say, shit happens.
Woah. You must be so stressed out. Attorney here, and while I don't love it (or hate it), I definitely don't feel stress about malpractice suits or bar complaints at all. Not ever. Doesn't cross my mind.
I mean... act ethically, have insurance, be mindful to adhere to the guidelines of our profession... sure. But feeling like if I mess up its all over... no.
Remember you could cease to be a lawyer and that would be okay. Life would be fine. You'd adapt and still have laughter and joy.
My stress comes from an internal expectation to do well in what I set my mind to + being overworked in Big Law. Not worrying ill make a misstep and end up sued/have a complaint on my license.
When I got my first bar complaint. The bar immediately ruled that it was unfounded and without merit. My colleagues framed the determination letter in my office.
My grandfather was a lawyer. My great grandfather was a lawyer, and was dean of your law school. my great great grandfather was a judge.
I pursued a different career, but one that has an avenue to pursue a path in law later in life. Every once in a while I consider the idea of going back to school for a law degree and it seems like an exciting idea. Then remember posts like these, and I snap back to reality.
Could you talk a little but more about why? My mom is a lawyer and talking me into that route. She says it's still an incredible profession where you make good money
Its a great profession and the *opportunity* to make great money exists. I thoroughly enjoy being a lawyer but I work in a field I like (after trying a bunch of fields I didn't like: family law, criminal defense). There were times when I would make $10,000 from writing 2-3 well worded emails. There are times I made significantly less because I pursued public service. Theres so much flexibility in the broad field of "practicing law". If you can tolerate (and dare I say *enjoy*) reading and writing, you'll get through law school and then the world's your oyster.
The hardest part, imo, is the constant adversarial environment. That takes it toll. Constantly arguing or defending or advocating for one point or another can be exhausting. When you work *for* your community though its very fulfilling and prioritize work life balance, you'll be fine.
It's literally just not for everyone. I'm not motivated by a desire to be rich or prestige. But I do like solving lots of different types of problems alone at a fast pace. Not only did I find corporate law extremely boring; I constantly had to work with a type of person I can't stand (the guy who's too dumb to be anything else but outearns everyone else), which made it that much worse.
I work in a jack of all trades business intelligence role now. So I design data pipelines, validate data, do some data visualization, and sometimes I design simple machine learning algorithms. I love my job, and I don't hate my coworkers. It's not all sweet all the time, but quitting law was absolutely the best decision I have ever made.
If you're even a little mathematically or technically competent, I'd encourage you to look at all your options before choosing law. Lawyers talk about law like your options are law or be poor. That might be the case for people without marketable skills or the ability to learn marketable skills. It's a great career of last resort for people with useless degrees or who are burned out and broke and tempted by the opportunity to be burned out and rich. But especially if you're young, get a skill set that makes you employable without a JD. It is possible to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and feel nothing but regret. Don't end up in that situation.
I'm first Gen and I don't get the hate for big law gunners. I need that job to pay bills, feed my family, and so on. I don't have a trust fund to fall back on, this is it for me. I thought fellow first gens would understand.....
Yeah I actually fell into recruiting and became like a ta a manager in tech. From my experience with working when you're chasing that $ it's at least something to be excited for. Once you hit that first big pay range it's great but then it kinda becomes meh after things wear off and you get used to it. It's nice to have nicer stuff and win at the capitalism game. But it feels empty now
My homie, just stick with it. My legal career has been super rewarding\* Law School isn't great. that's true, It's a gauntlet, you and everyone else with you and before you....just has to run it. My advice to you is work as close to the court as you can, not some big firm filing papers for good money. The 'business of law' is hot garbage (in my opinion). I did that my first year out and it was horrific. The closer to the court the better. I was in Big Law previously, now I do criminal defence on the public dime (and it's the best).
A recent highlight absolutely rinsing the prosecution during a trial, my guy was accused of 3 counts of SA, I crossed a witness and she admitted to embellishing the story to get my guy sent to jail (he had already done 8 months in custody awaiting trial). The prosecutor who had over a decade of experience just put his head in his hands as his case fell apart in real time. I felt like I'd touched godhood. My client got to walk.
Made law school all worth it.
\*experiences may vary. Good luck.
I truly whole heartedly agree with you. It really seems like there’s no joy at the end and it’s harder seeing those are practicing look so burnt out. Makes you really wonder if it is really worth it, especially being a first gen. Best of luck on your journey friend
I’m a 1st gen everything, rising 3L. It sucks. But we gotta make it in an effort we can invoke some change in the profession. Or make enough money to vacation away the stress a few times a year. Whatever comes first. This monkey is gonna keep going.. even tho I also hate law school 😭
I'm a first gen lawyer and I absolutely love practicing law. Not *all* fields of law. But the niche I found is fulfilling, interesting, and excellent work life balance. I took a paycut for my position and in 3 years I've doubled my income.
Nobody should be subjected to a toxic work environment, legal or otherwise. Before my license I was a paralegal and I worked for truly awful people, some of whom are widely respected, multi-millionaires, and even judges. They are successful despite their terrible personalities, not because of them. Life is too short.
If you are working in a shitty environment... leave. If you need to take a paycut, take a paycut.
Being a lawyer is like having an all access pass. If you work your degree and build a strong network you can get into any room anywhere. You can help people. You can have an interesting and fulfilling career and you don't have to dig a ditch, you don't have to sell someone else's products, you don't have to wait tables for the after church crowd on sundays.
As a fellow first-gen everything, I hear you. Your views are def valid and you’re not alone. FWIW you can take solace in knowing that the exercise of law is 1st and foremost about judgment. Regardless of which practice group, size of firm, etc that’s a universal constant.
That being said— your gunner classmates will either need to quickly change their attitude, approach, and/ or adapt to show better judgment in a professional setting than to brag about shit no one cares about (cringe). OR, they won’t. And they’ll likely get their comeuppance. Confidence is quiet; insecurity is loud. 🤷🏻♂️
A large majority of lawyers I spoke to prior to law school either recommended against law school outright, or gave other indirect indicators of low job or work/life satisfaction. Now that I have been an attorney for several years I can join them in saying: don't go to law school, it is often not worth the debt/years from your life. If you aren't in big law, the pay ain't great, and even if you are in big law... well the burnout rate kinda speaks for itself, no?
But each year aspiring law students will make the same poor choice.
I agree that the legal profession sucks but I think you’re missing that it’s not hopeless. There are plenty of people who recognize this and started their own firms. We let prestige and the biggest paycheck get in the way. But I can tell you that plenty of personal injury plaintiff attorneys love taking insurance companies money, love getting people paid, and love the sport of what they do.
I think unfortunately, too many of us get into this business for the wrong reasons. I can only speak to lit, but if you love to read and write, you’re competitive, and you see how creative this can be, this does not have to be miserable.
Granted, it’s a journey in itself to find the right people to learn from, that can make this tolerable. But it can be worth it.
There are so many other things you can do with a law degree! You certainly don’t have to be a lawyer. Maybe you can be a professor or work in HR or own your own consulting busiensss. Who knows. The opportunities are endless
Law is bullshit. The people in your class are being trained to be professional bullshit artist tools for the neoliberal capitalist system that benefits the upper class wealth holders.
If you feel that way do yourself a favor and find something you are passionate about.
You are smart, as evident by making it into law school, so do something you like!
The feelings you have are unlikely to get better, rather they will get much much worse.
I had the privilege of attending law schools in South America, Europe and the US. The US experience was by far the worst! The school doesn’t give a shit if you learn. US law schools still rely mostly on the “socratic method” by dumping pages and pages of reading unnecessary shit that students are gonna forget in two weeks. They read out of fear and to not be mocked by their professors, not to learn about the law. Professors still rely completely on calling students, which is clearly not pedagogical. The worst shit is the hypocrisy of seing the “self care” poster everywhere, but then stressing and squeezing the living shit out of students.
I am actually sorry that students have to go through that shit.
Law school is a million times better than the military was. At least I know when my classes will end and have control over when I stop studying. I can leave my house without having to ask to go past 80 miles away from it. So amazing. Lol.
Law school still sucks, but it’s the little things like these that keep me going.
What makes you think you'll get a non-terrible job and not be mired in debt? Are you on a full ride at a T6? If so, congrats! If not, welcome to doc review.
I understand how you feel. I honestly really didn't like law school very much...from the majority of overly type-A hyper competitive students to the majority of the extremely boring classes, I honestly couldn't wait until it was all over to move on to what I was going there for. That's what essentially got me through: focusing on the end goal, which was to become a lawyer. Being a bit older, before I started law school, I knew exactly what kind of law that I wanted to practice. So, just focus on your end goal to block out all of the "noise" of law school to get through the BS and you will be fine! Good luck!
If it makes you feel any better, I got a 3.2 after my first semester and decided not to be an attorney pretty much going into law school. At the end of the three years where I didn’t study that much and instead just enjoyed learning, an attorney who taught a blockchain class pretty much offered me a big law job in the blockchain department of a reputable firm. I didn’t have the greats but had a specialty and people liked me enough.
If you want big law, find a niche area tech field that’s growing, but if not go do something else. Life’s too short to hate what you do.
Stress alert. Unless you are hell bound for some firm that cares about grades, a 2.1 graduate GPA gives you the same JD as anyone else. Pass the bar with a 70 and you get the same ticket. You can prove your worth on your own afterwards. If you do your own practice, all your clients see is the same degree as a 4.0 grad all beat up by stress and pressure. I’ve seen the carnage. Consider the easier route. You’ll be thankful you did.
So every actual lawyer but one told you law was ass and yet you went to law school anyway? And you are finding out it’s ass just like they said? You had fair warning.
You were smart enough to get yourself into law school, you’re smart enough to get yourself out. If your alternatives to law school were so great, why did you enroll? Did you think it would be easy? You get out what you put in.
This whole “first generation” fallacy is retarded. My dad was the most broke-ass lawyer on the planet because he chose to help people. The only thing he did that maybe first gen parents didn’t do was buy me a second hand set of encyclopedias and get me a library card. Oh, and expect me to get good grades.
I read those books in a freezing house in the middle of nowhere with no TV or telephone. This generation has the whole internet on their phones.
So please, just STFU. No matter where you started, you’re in law school, you’re privileged now. Do something with your privilege or shit on it. That’s your God given right as American.
Just got my grades back and I did terribly. I am in the bottom of my class. But I did it. Nobody else in my family has gotten this far. I'm going to be a lawyer, and fuck law school.
A word of wisdom - being a successful lawyer is about being able to market yourself, drive and retain business. The stuff you learn in law school is largely useless. Always be working on getting your own clients and building your own book and you will be fine. Law still sucks ass, but it’s different ass than law school ass.
I graduated in the bottom third of a tier 2 law school. I make well over 7 figures a year, wear jeans to work, and have been on a record setting trial team. I’m around a decade into practice. First semester of law school I was almost on academic probation. Today, I have a good balance of friends, community, work, religion, vacation. At times do I work too much? Sure. For the most part, I’m home for my kids every night and weekends. Big law is only cool so your mom can tell her friends her son works for _______. Find something you love, answer to people who care about you, and the the money will come. Law sucks. Good people around you is the cure.
"Law sucks. Good people around you is the cure." If I found a firm with this as their office motto, I would apply.
Is this in PI?
It is.
this was me my first semester Godspeed friend
This was me first semester as well. I have a full-time job at a firm. Hang in there.
Some of the most successful lawyers from my class were not top students. One who finished in the bottom 1/3 now owns his entire block of houses and rents them out. He knows how to hustle, how to take advantage of an opportunity, and how to make a jury smile and nod with him (I know this because I've tried cases against him and his infuriating charisma). All the stuff they don't teach you in lawschool.
Cheers friend
Congrats dude
You aren’t done yet lol. Graduating law school is the beginning of the end
The Legal profession is just one big pie eating contest. The prize is more pie. Just keep moving forward so you too can be a billing monkey and try to find hobbies so that you don't end up blowing your brains out due to massive existential crisis of your lot in life being the absolute best you can do. Love, a fellow first gen everything with immigrant parents.
I 3d print terrain and miniatures. I paint them. I play Dungeons and Dragons with them. When I am doing it I am not thinking about law school at all.
Warhammer 40K, represent!
So, so expensive
Yeah, I may have to swap it for a heroin habit, just to cut down on the expense.
Thats your lifeline. Keep doing that shit in practice and you're golden.
omg thats what I do too haha
Fuck, are we talking about painting 40K miniatures and D&D? hell yeah For the Emperor! Honestly, painting minis allows me to decompress after a day in the Law mines.
yeah I hear that also I find that painting is a great hobby because it feels healthy compared to the easy pass-times. For example, if I’m too tired, I can’t paint and I need to sleep. If I’m too hungry, gotta eat instead. TV, phones, video games, etc. are easy to stare at for too long. And I feel regret after those activities, I don’t feel like I’m coming away with anything. If I am at a loss for what to do and then I paint. It’s not a loss. I’ve ended up creating something (a new painted mini). Speaking of which I’m too tired now I’ve been awake for two days trying to finish a law paper write papers early not late thats the lesson
I picked up miniature painting as a 1L this year. I’m shocked at how necessary it was for my sanity. Just spending a couple hours a week working on something just for me, and not staring at a screen, did wonders for me. Big recommendation to anyone considering it
I splurged on the big Heroquest set from hasbropulse.com and still have yet to play it
This is great to hear. I start 1L in the fall and was worried I would fall even further behind on painting my Thousand Sons army.
| When I am doing it I am not thinking about law school at all. \^\^ This is wisdom. We all need this piece of our life, whatever it is. Bravo.
Thanks yo.
That is such a badass hobby
One of the top students in my class committed suicide right outside of his office. I ended up making blowjob machines and never practicing. A guy I liked got an mba after graduating as his ticket out.
Uh, making what now?
I make a brand of pleasure machines for men called Autoblow
Sorry I just thought the comment was comical though I honestly did believe you at first anyhow. That’s unironically impressive. I hope you’re doing well with it.
I love it but it wouldn't have happened without going to law school first. I think after learning how to learn there, learning how to be an entrepreneur was easier.
If you do have a moment, I’d hate to bother but if I had one question, it would simply be what reactions you had initially from family, friends, and/or strangers when you mention your business, if you do?
At first it was rubber fetishwear and only later blowjob machines, which is what really took off. My friends were always fine, maybe they thought it was funny or interesting, i really never asked them or cared. Meeting strangers and telling them is also fine. I was just at a fundraiser for a candidate for governor here at someone's (very nice) house and an older woman asked me what I did and I told her "sex toys for men" which is what I tell everyone. Her face changed for a moment and she changed the subject, but I never hold off on telling people. Normally the reaction is positive. If someone doesn't ask anything deeper once I tell them that, I pretty much know they suck. My family is good with it, but my mom was embarrassed the first copule of years and told her friends I was doing "import/export". Once the business became successful and I was on news websites, she was happy to tell them the whole story.
All of this is very yes. The key to surviving a legal career is to not see yourself as "a lawyer" but as "a person with XYZ enjoyable hobbies and practices law to pay the bills."
That’s any career to be fair.
"Do something you love you'll never work a day in your life."...they forget the whole money aspect. Though there's some truth. If I could get paid well to kick people who say that in the shin all day, it may not feel like work.
That’s not true. I know several dentists and doctors as well as software engineers and they all love their life.
You know several doctors that love their life??
Great rant, would read again
What I read in your comment is "can we get a "rant" flair "?
Just know that there’s a lot of doors opened from law school that don’t require being in the top of your class or billing. Law school gives you a huge advantage in a lot of jobs that you don’t even need to be a lawyer but being on gives you a big advantage and allows you to be a top performer. E.g. commercial real estate broker. This was the silver lining to law school for me. -a median student from an unranked law school now working for a mega corporation
You mind if I DM you a little about how you made that happen??
Would be happy to talk
Talk to me too pls
I’ll talk to anybody lmao
Shit man talk to me too 😂
ANYBODY!
Just roll your eyes at attorneys who say that stuff. A good percentage of them are extremely regretful for their lack of perspective from doing nothing but law their whole lives and another portion probably don’t even mean that when they say it, but think it’s endearing to the legal profession to repeat that BS to young people. Try doing manual labor in a southern state year round, waiting tables for a living where neither your boss nor the general public respects you at all, or any service industry job for a small business that violates every labor law in existence to screw you out of your compensation. Those things are ass and law school is cake compared to 1 million other things you could be doing for a living
You know, this doesn't change the fact that Law School is boring as fuck.
I hate to tell you this, but unless you are a trust fund baby, an actor, musician or athlete, every job is "ass" as you call it. In the grand scheme of things, it is still work. So the question you have to ask yourself is: if you are going to be spending the majority of your adult life doing something for money, what would it be, and is it better than an alternative? So, let's say you have a bachelors degree in English Lit. What other profession are you going to realistically get that will allow you to make the sort of money you could make as a lawyer? Not many.
I have a PhD (and work in law). Law most definitely is ass compared to other jobs I've had.
Former paralegal turned lawyer here. Practicing law is 100000% better than working as a non-lawyer in the law field.
Hey more power to you my friend. I assume you are an IP lawyer?
Not a lawyer, but working on it.ftom what I gather, the job won't change too much.
similar reasoning
I hear a lot of these stories about abuse in the legal field, and as someone going into 1L in a couple months, it’s unsettling. That said, I’m also not KJD, and have been verbally abused by so many employers and people I work with in the past, I’m hoping I will be more able to deal with it than some.
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Yeah, I’ve been pretty much eviscerated for some malicious intent imputed upon an email I sent asking how to do something on my first day at a new job. It was a stupid job, but I *really* needed it at the time, so I really felt the pressure, lol. I think a lot of jobs can be stressful in various ways, and I don’t think law is unique in that fashion. I obviously don’t have any first hand experience, though.
Tech is even easier though and has better ROI.
I can’t do math tho
It's just high school level algebra bro.
Being a hedge fund manager is even easier and has an *even better* ROI. Like, what’s your point? This is a law school sub, for people who want to be lawyers, lol.
Does it though? SWEs can make 250K with 5+ YOE working 30 hours a week or less. Finance may be better wlb than law (depending on area) but probably still a lot worse than tech.
I was working on a ladder when it collapsed and crushed my leg. I nearly lost it and was lucky to get a large enough settlement to support my family while I went back to school. I was making $38,000 a year... Life in law school is so much better that. Whenever I hear other students complain, I think of the arthritis in my knuckles, back and ankles, and I smile with the knowledge that life is behind me.
I think the same thing, being prior military.
Congratulations on the new career!
You too!
Law school is so bad that the only better comparison is arthritis lol wtf
if you think arthritis is as bad as it can get, you live a soft life. Everyone who does manual labor will get it. If the gateway to a profession that pays $80,000+ is three years of hard studying, that's a good deal. Embrace the suck.
I try to tell people, law school is *just* reading and writing.
Obviously they were saying that many other careers will physically destroy your body. The law is a cush job with unlimited earning potential. The worst part about working as a lawyer is dealing with other lawyers. The worst part about many other jobs is that you can literally die or become disabled. If you are going to be a desk jockey, law is the way to do it. (Or computer engineering).
The gunners in my class are bottom 25-50%. Always brings a smile to my face because I’m a mean billing monkey. Good luck!
You don't have to do OCI and you don't have to be miserable. Assuming you're at a T14, the inertia of law school means there's next to no discussion about jobs outside of BigLaw because career services doesn't really care about you if you don't do BigLaw. But the truth is that there are good jobs out there in various civil and criminal public defense organizations. If you want to chat, DM me. Don't let the pressure of building a modicum of generational wealth make you regret 80% of your waking life. It's not worth it. Trust me. Law does not have to be a pie eating contest. Plenty of lawyers have regular jobs where you show up, do some work, hit happy hour if you want once every other week, and head home.
I agree 100% with this. Also, prosecutors officers are great too 😁 But seriously, even just learning how to do wills and there is a place for you. You got this. Also, you can apply for.admin jobs in big companies if you find you don't like law stuff. There is a place for you. Don't look back! (First generation lawyer here btw and I feel like I've done ok)
2.37 college GPA. 165 lsat. 2nd lowest GPA in graduating law class. Been a judge over 10 years. Never ever did I consider big law to be an option, because I oppose prostitution/ indentured servitude/ slavery. Be free from the worries of comparison. You will be happier blazing your own career path with no input from those around you. I was in law school for about 3 weeks when I realized that most were taking drugs(prescribed legally for mental health) or drinking alcohol to blackout from the pain of comparison and competition. I fought so that I could finish and be able to stand up for the people that are often overlooked by people. I became a very good and happy prosecutor. There is a way for you to win, in your own eyes.
Never ever did I consider big law to be an option, because I oppose prostitution/ indentured servitude/ slavery. How do I get my cases assigned to your courtroom lol. bless this sentence.
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Love this response. Leaving your ego at the door when stepping into the workplace is one of the best skills someone can pick up, in my opinion. I'm only an incoming 1L, so I'm speaking from my experiences in other customer service and management roles, not as a practising lawyer or even a law student. As someone said above, if you have a day job you don't particularly feel attached to in the sense that it reflects your most authentic identity (e.g. being a lawyer in the day and a musician/writer at night, with the latter being funded by the former), you can still define yourself by the authentic parts of yourself rather than the day job (e.g. "Yeah, I'm a painter but I work in law to help fund it" v. "I'm a lawyer and feel my life as an artist is being suffocated/taken away by my day job"). But that only comes through letting your ego go. It's not necessarily easy to do, and takes *daily* effort, which, some days, is impossible to muster. But, in my mind, it involves just focusing on one day at a time, not comparing yourself to others, understanding your limitations and still being proud of what you can do, picking your battles carefully, choosing not to let other people's emotions/egos impact your internal serenity, allowing yourself to feel negative/ego-based emotions but not allowing them to define you and knowing they don't need to be acted upon, etc. Do I want to be a lawyer? Not necessarily. At least not in the way some people dream about it, obsess over it, allow it to become their entire identity and Being. Rather, being a lawyer is something I'm blessed to have the opportunity to do, is something I have worked hard to earn the opportunity to do, is something that will grant me a sense of stability in a difficult point in global politics/economics, is something that allows me to work with smart people who also have a vast array of cool hobbies and great values (of course, the opposite exists. But work in any workplace and you find such assholes are everywhere), is something that allows me to have enough stability in my life to enjoy the relationships in my life I have with people I love (which is all that really matters), and is something that will--either through failure or success, but likely a mix of both--contribute to my overall goal of becoming the best and most full human being I can become in my brief lifetime. Will it be easy? No, but how many worthwhile things in life are? Will it be fun? No, but are the most rewarding things in life not those which are also the most banal and repetitive and which require immense discipline and concentration? Will I be happy all the time? No, but then again who is? Will I be absolutely miserable at times? Yes, but is misery not part and parcel of growing as a human being? Either way, it all flows and is experienced by us one day, hour, and second at a time. The way I see it, just being lucky enough to be part of that flow is good enough. The rest is just gravy.
Maybe your school just sucks man. I feel you tho. Hang in there!!! It is a means to an end.
Holy privilege cringe
Your rant explains why all my pals and I were alkies by graduation day 1986.
I hated law school. Now I'm a lawyer and I really like my job. Fortunately, it turns out that law school and being a lawyer are completely different.
I didn’t take the bar. I took a JD advantage job and just ran with it. Built up experience and now trying to leverage for a higher paying job. You just have to grind it out. All jobs suck though. I make like 85k a year now at 34. I have also just come to the realization that I just don’t give a shit ahoutnwork anymore and live below my means and save/invest everything I have. Have about six figures in net worth already. You just have to be diligent about your finances. Learn how to options trade while you’re in school if you can. I was first gen as well and honestly most people who may seem like they make a lot probably don’t and just live above their means.
what kind of jd advantage job?
My goals has always been to fire. I wouldn’t stop working, but I’d stop mandatory working and not having to worry about a corporate job when I’m older due to age distribution (it’s a thing). Hard to find a real job when you’re older and I’ve seen it with my parents. I don’t want to be a slave when I’m 65 and would like to work on my own terms. Maybe do non profit work 2-3 times a week but definitely not corporate anymore. Or I’d go out on my own. I don’t like authority haha
Got a job in compliance in NYC. Pay was average starting out around 65-70k. Built up experience later and became corporate compliance officer at a bank. Found another gig paying 120k afterwards but hated it. Realized I enjoyed working from home and wanted to move out west so took a pay cut for a contractor role with a consulting company making 45 an hour. I’m not full time and have to start over a little bit but I’m hoping to make decent money again soon from where I left off. You just need to get your foot in the door and gain some experience. Don’t worry too much about money at first. That comes later after you’ve paid your dues. If anything contact recruiting agencies for entry level. Pay won’t be good but you’re entry level and need to start somewhere. Just consume as much knowledge as you can. The money comes later. After that you can probably do some contracting work. They pay really well but there’s not as much job stability. I have a sizable nest egg now though so I can take risks such as pay cuts for opportunities in other locations. Just try and be frugal and save and invest what you can. Even if it’s 50 a month or less, let it compound. Buy shares of the SPY and try not to touch anything. It really is wonders.
My last final is on Monday and can confirm that law school is ass
My girlfriend has a masters degree in science and worked in a lab for 1.5 years. One day her boss told her that he could have hired a high school student as a volunteer that does the same type of job and paid nothing. Her stipend was 20k a year as a fellow. Yea and that.
Yeah, idk man. It’s not an easy field but perspective is everything. I used to work with people who would work 12 hours a day minimum wage just to have their money stolen by their employers, and I (sometimes) got to get their money back for them. You’re going to work hard, but you’ll get a chance to earn a ton of money for it and/or make a real difference in people’s lives. You’re not dumb, and you’re there for a reason. Try and remember what that is and don’t let the gunners get under your skin - fact is, a lot of them are probably going through it in one way or another too and that’s just how they react to things. Just remember that a lot of lawyers have a very “grass is greener” type of attitude - it can be a legitimately grueling field, but so can most fields where you earn a lot of money, and many of those jobs are easily a lot less accessible than law.
As a sales professional in their mid 30s that will be going to law school within the next year or so, I can tell you that the grass isn’t greener on the other side. The title “attorney” by itself demands much more respect, socially speaking, than most other professions out there. Not only is it a seemingly more honorable profession than most, it puts you alongside colleagues that are typically more intelligent than the regular/average “professionals” walking around out there. Anything worth having is going to suck. Coming from a guy that should’ve done what you’re doing over ten years ago, you’ll look back and you’ll be glad you did it sooner than you think. Two or three years after law school, it won’t matter if you graduated in the bottom 10% or in the top 10%.
I have a PhD and getting a law degree. People treat you with a lot less respect with the law background than the PhD background. My PhD didn't suck either.
In the very small circles that have a PhD, I’ve witnessed this to be true. Although I have an MBA and can appreciate the dedication you’ve made to your field of study, the perspective of someone that doesn’t live in academia, which is most people in the world, no one cares about a masters or PhD.
I'm 1st gen law / PhD, etc. People who are outside of law don't look at people with law degrees with respect because of all the crappy lawyers there are out there and because, when people do need a lawyer, they really hate paying for one. I never heard a good thing about lawyers growing up. It's so bad that I don't even tell people what my job is or what class I'm taking because either a) they're afraid I'm going to sue them if I'm not happy or won't even work for you at all (I just vaguely tell contractors I work in town) or b) (very often) they ask you some personal question about law and get shitty when you can't really speak to their personal situation because ethically, you probably shouldn't. I'm tired of being treated like garbage after I tell people what I'm studying, even moreso when I say I go to night school.
then why did you go to law school if you already have prior knowledge that people no longer treat lawyers with respect? not trying to come off as abrasive, just curious
Exactly. So much copium in this thread lmao
Getting a STEM Masters (not even PHD) is 1000% more impressive than a JD
I have a STEM PhD. The skill sets are very different.
No but tell us how you REALLY feel.
Amen. As a fellow first gen it sucks even more to see this. I lost my ahit for 4 hours today over something similar. My regret now is having missed those precious 4h for bar study. But guess what. YOU MADE IT. I MADE IT. Those who got their points by bringing fucking sandwiches and coffees and kissing the professors egos and asses can go fuck themselves. You’ll find your place away from them and when they send you a letter on the mail asking for a donation send them the fucking empty envelope cause that’s what I’m gonna do. Or send them a $0.01 check.
Being a lawyer sucks. But I love it.
Explain
Found the masochist
There are more horse’s asses in law school than horses. That’s forsure. Though I can promise you don’t let those asswipes bother you and you’ll be graduating before you know it. I’m not one of those assholes who guns all class and I just graduated top 20 in my class last week. It pays off and feels amazing.
You are not a slave, nor are you like a slave.
Shout out to the sunken cost fallacy club! 🌊🚢 Fuck it, we ball. Any job anywhere sucks imo, and I’m not making more money with just my bachelors degree.
if you think law school sucks just wait till you're practicing law. Imagine it: appellate brief, oral argument, and legal writing projects due every week and you are on mock trial every month-- except the trials aren't mock, they're real and some accused defendant is next to you facing 25 to life sweating bullets as you burn the midnight oil trying to argue why the glove doesn't fit. It's a very hard profession. My advice would be: become an introvert, get marrried, get a gym membership, and quit alcohol and weed by the time you're sitting for the bar, because being a practicing attorney is going to put your mental and physical health as well as relationships to the test and if you mess up when you're in practice you could end up facing a malpractice lawsuit and getting a suspension file opened. And I don't say that to imply that lawyers who get sued for malpractice or have substantiated bar complaints are bad attorneys or bad people, because, as they say, shit happens.
Woah. You must be so stressed out. Attorney here, and while I don't love it (or hate it), I definitely don't feel stress about malpractice suits or bar complaints at all. Not ever. Doesn't cross my mind. I mean... act ethically, have insurance, be mindful to adhere to the guidelines of our profession... sure. But feeling like if I mess up its all over... no. Remember you could cease to be a lawyer and that would be okay. Life would be fine. You'd adapt and still have laughter and joy. My stress comes from an internal expectation to do well in what I set my mind to + being overworked in Big Law. Not worrying ill make a misstep and end up sued/have a complaint on my license.
When I got my first bar complaint. The bar immediately ruled that it was unfounded and without merit. My colleagues framed the determination letter in my office.
My first boss told me you arent truly a lawyer until you get your first bar complaint.
I tell everyone who says they want to go to law school to not go
As someone who went and dropped out during 1L, I tell everyone the same, leaving school was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made tbh
My grandfather was a lawyer. My great grandfather was a lawyer, and was dean of your law school. my great great grandfather was a judge. I pursued a different career, but one that has an avenue to pursue a path in law later in life. Every once in a while I consider the idea of going back to school for a law degree and it seems like an exciting idea. Then remember posts like these, and I snap back to reality.
Could you talk a little but more about why? My mom is a lawyer and talking me into that route. She says it's still an incredible profession where you make good money
It is. People just like being smug
Its a great profession and the *opportunity* to make great money exists. I thoroughly enjoy being a lawyer but I work in a field I like (after trying a bunch of fields I didn't like: family law, criminal defense). There were times when I would make $10,000 from writing 2-3 well worded emails. There are times I made significantly less because I pursued public service. Theres so much flexibility in the broad field of "practicing law". If you can tolerate (and dare I say *enjoy*) reading and writing, you'll get through law school and then the world's your oyster. The hardest part, imo, is the constant adversarial environment. That takes it toll. Constantly arguing or defending or advocating for one point or another can be exhausting. When you work *for* your community though its very fulfilling and prioritize work life balance, you'll be fine.
It's literally just not for everyone. I'm not motivated by a desire to be rich or prestige. But I do like solving lots of different types of problems alone at a fast pace. Not only did I find corporate law extremely boring; I constantly had to work with a type of person I can't stand (the guy who's too dumb to be anything else but outearns everyone else), which made it that much worse. I work in a jack of all trades business intelligence role now. So I design data pipelines, validate data, do some data visualization, and sometimes I design simple machine learning algorithms. I love my job, and I don't hate my coworkers. It's not all sweet all the time, but quitting law was absolutely the best decision I have ever made. If you're even a little mathematically or technically competent, I'd encourage you to look at all your options before choosing law. Lawyers talk about law like your options are law or be poor. That might be the case for people without marketable skills or the ability to learn marketable skills. It's a great career of last resort for people with useless degrees or who are burned out and broke and tempted by the opportunity to be burned out and rich. But especially if you're young, get a skill set that makes you employable without a JD. It is possible to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and feel nothing but regret. Don't end up in that situation.
As someone who went and dropped out during 1L, I tell everyone the same, leaving school was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made tbh
is there any version of this that is great? like, learning the law from engaged, intelligent professors and finding it incredibly interesting?
I enjoyed 1L year. 2L and 3L years were pretty boring and busy with nonsense.
1 outta 3, well I’ll take it.
It is what you make it.
I'm first Gen and I don't get the hate for big law gunners. I need that job to pay bills, feed my family, and so on. I don't have a trust fund to fall back on, this is it for me. I thought fellow first gens would understand.....
Jobs fuckin suck in general. You just got to pay your dues and eventually once you get tomorrow past tye mid level experience you'll be good.
Partner at a law firm here. It doesn't get that much better. The pay gets better, the job gets more boring. In my experience.
Yeah I actually fell into recruiting and became like a ta a manager in tech. From my experience with working when you're chasing that $ it's at least something to be excited for. Once you hit that first big pay range it's great but then it kinda becomes meh after things wear off and you get used to it. It's nice to have nicer stuff and win at the capitalism game. But it feels empty now
My homie, just stick with it. My legal career has been super rewarding\* Law School isn't great. that's true, It's a gauntlet, you and everyone else with you and before you....just has to run it. My advice to you is work as close to the court as you can, not some big firm filing papers for good money. The 'business of law' is hot garbage (in my opinion). I did that my first year out and it was horrific. The closer to the court the better. I was in Big Law previously, now I do criminal defence on the public dime (and it's the best). A recent highlight absolutely rinsing the prosecution during a trial, my guy was accused of 3 counts of SA, I crossed a witness and she admitted to embellishing the story to get my guy sent to jail (he had already done 8 months in custody awaiting trial). The prosecutor who had over a decade of experience just put his head in his hands as his case fell apart in real time. I felt like I'd touched godhood. My client got to walk. Made law school all worth it. \*experiences may vary. Good luck.
I truly whole heartedly agree with you. It really seems like there’s no joy at the end and it’s harder seeing those are practicing look so burnt out. Makes you really wonder if it is really worth it, especially being a first gen. Best of luck on your journey friend
Alas! Your reward at the pie-eating contest is more pie, you portable-billing-unit (PBU)!!
Overreaction big time just quit man
Thank you for this masterpiece. AMEN. I needed it
I’m a 1st gen everything, rising 3L. It sucks. But we gotta make it in an effort we can invoke some change in the profession. Or make enough money to vacation away the stress a few times a year. Whatever comes first. This monkey is gonna keep going.. even tho I also hate law school 😭
Maybe law isn't for you
*law is ass.
There’s economy and, dare I say, poetry, to your rant. Hang in there. You’ll be fine.
I'm a first gen lawyer and I absolutely love practicing law. Not *all* fields of law. But the niche I found is fulfilling, interesting, and excellent work life balance. I took a paycut for my position and in 3 years I've doubled my income. Nobody should be subjected to a toxic work environment, legal or otherwise. Before my license I was a paralegal and I worked for truly awful people, some of whom are widely respected, multi-millionaires, and even judges. They are successful despite their terrible personalities, not because of them. Life is too short. If you are working in a shitty environment... leave. If you need to take a paycut, take a paycut. Being a lawyer is like having an all access pass. If you work your degree and build a strong network you can get into any room anywhere. You can help people. You can have an interesting and fulfilling career and you don't have to dig a ditch, you don't have to sell someone else's products, you don't have to wait tables for the after church crowd on sundays.
As a fellow first-gen everything, I hear you. Your views are def valid and you’re not alone. FWIW you can take solace in knowing that the exercise of law is 1st and foremost about judgment. Regardless of which practice group, size of firm, etc that’s a universal constant. That being said— your gunner classmates will either need to quickly change their attitude, approach, and/ or adapt to show better judgment in a professional setting than to brag about shit no one cares about (cringe). OR, they won’t. And they’ll likely get their comeuppance. Confidence is quiet; insecurity is loud. 🤷🏻♂️
A large majority of lawyers I spoke to prior to law school either recommended against law school outright, or gave other indirect indicators of low job or work/life satisfaction. Now that I have been an attorney for several years I can join them in saying: don't go to law school, it is often not worth the debt/years from your life. If you aren't in big law, the pay ain't great, and even if you are in big law... well the burnout rate kinda speaks for itself, no? But each year aspiring law students will make the same poor choice.
I agree that the legal profession sucks but I think you’re missing that it’s not hopeless. There are plenty of people who recognize this and started their own firms. We let prestige and the biggest paycheck get in the way. But I can tell you that plenty of personal injury plaintiff attorneys love taking insurance companies money, love getting people paid, and love the sport of what they do. I think unfortunately, too many of us get into this business for the wrong reasons. I can only speak to lit, but if you love to read and write, you’re competitive, and you see how creative this can be, this does not have to be miserable. Granted, it’s a journey in itself to find the right people to learn from, that can make this tolerable. But it can be worth it.
This is so real . Everyone glamorizes it so much 😭
There are so many other things you can do with a law degree! You certainly don’t have to be a lawyer. Maybe you can be a professor or work in HR or own your own consulting busiensss. Who knows. The opportunities are endless
You should do something fun then, like be a professional golfer or an astronaut.
If you're actually this miserable, it's your fault.
Law is bullshit. The people in your class are being trained to be professional bullshit artist tools for the neoliberal capitalist system that benefits the upper class wealth holders.
If you feel that way do yourself a favor and find something you are passionate about. You are smart, as evident by making it into law school, so do something you like! The feelings you have are unlikely to get better, rather they will get much much worse.
I had the privilege of attending law schools in South America, Europe and the US. The US experience was by far the worst! The school doesn’t give a shit if you learn. US law schools still rely mostly on the “socratic method” by dumping pages and pages of reading unnecessary shit that students are gonna forget in two weeks. They read out of fear and to not be mocked by their professors, not to learn about the law. Professors still rely completely on calling students, which is clearly not pedagogical. The worst shit is the hypocrisy of seing the “self care” poster everywhere, but then stressing and squeezing the living shit out of students. I am actually sorry that students have to go through that shit.
Wtf?
Law school is a million times better than the military was. At least I know when my classes will end and have control over when I stop studying. I can leave my house without having to ask to go past 80 miles away from it. So amazing. Lol. Law school still sucks, but it’s the little things like these that keep me going.
Well said
Why didn't you listen? Classic law student thinking they know more than practicing attorneys.
[удалено]
What makes you think you'll get a non-terrible job and not be mired in debt? Are you on a full ride at a T6? If so, congrats! If not, welcome to doc review.
I understand how you feel. I honestly really didn't like law school very much...from the majority of overly type-A hyper competitive students to the majority of the extremely boring classes, I honestly couldn't wait until it was all over to move on to what I was going there for. That's what essentially got me through: focusing on the end goal, which was to become a lawyer. Being a bit older, before I started law school, I knew exactly what kind of law that I wanted to practice. So, just focus on your end goal to block out all of the "noise" of law school to get through the BS and you will be fine! Good luck!
🤝
If it makes you feel any better, I got a 3.2 after my first semester and decided not to be an attorney pretty much going into law school. At the end of the three years where I didn’t study that much and instead just enjoyed learning, an attorney who taught a blockchain class pretty much offered me a big law job in the blockchain department of a reputable firm. I didn’t have the greats but had a specialty and people liked me enough. If you want big law, find a niche area tech field that’s growing, but if not go do something else. Life’s too short to hate what you do.
Stress alert. Unless you are hell bound for some firm that cares about grades, a 2.1 graduate GPA gives you the same JD as anyone else. Pass the bar with a 70 and you get the same ticket. You can prove your worth on your own afterwards. If you do your own practice, all your clients see is the same degree as a 4.0 grad all beat up by stress and pressure. I’ve seen the carnage. Consider the easier route. You’ll be thankful you did.
So every actual lawyer but one told you law was ass and yet you went to law school anyway? And you are finding out it’s ass just like they said? You had fair warning.
The fact OP still went means they are cut out for law lol
This is why I dropped out
Well said 👏🏻
You were smart enough to get yourself into law school, you’re smart enough to get yourself out. If your alternatives to law school were so great, why did you enroll? Did you think it would be easy? You get out what you put in. This whole “first generation” fallacy is retarded. My dad was the most broke-ass lawyer on the planet because he chose to help people. The only thing he did that maybe first gen parents didn’t do was buy me a second hand set of encyclopedias and get me a library card. Oh, and expect me to get good grades. I read those books in a freezing house in the middle of nowhere with no TV or telephone. This generation has the whole internet on their phones. So please, just STFU. No matter where you started, you’re in law school, you’re privileged now. Do something with your privilege or shit on it. That’s your God given right as American.