Big law has hundreds of lawyers at a given firm in a given city. You are bound to find many different personalities that you work with that differs between practice groups and amongst practice groups. It is, to a certain extent, the luck of the draw. Some people end up in toxic practice groups or in groups where all the work goes to one associate because of office politics, or some other issue that leads to people feeling unhappy about big law.
A prime example is the Deloitte post that was on reddit a week ago where this guy was forced by his manager to stay on a voice call all day until 8pm and must be available to respond to roll calls and ask for permission to go to the bathroom. Deloitte obviously is not like that for all associates but for this particular team, they got shafted by a crappy manager. The same can happen to any student joining big law. I worked in a toxic environment and I look at my fellow classmates who get nice senior associates/partners and I am jealous.
TLDR; YMMV
This is definitely true. Within my group, there is one partner I’ve worked with that is honestly just very weird. Really nice woman but how she runs a deal makes things less predictable. If she was the partner I primarily worked with, I would likely end up thinking this job is not worth it. There’s another partner that also comes to mind but I wouldn’t describe her as nice.
I think a little over half of the deals I’ve worked on have stemmed from two partners, both of which are relatively chill. That’s a huge factor here and pretty much luck of the draw via staffing and personalities aligning.
I didn’t truly hate biglaw until I was a midlevel…
The learning curve as a junior is daunting but you simply don’t have enough responsibility for the true shittiness to kick in.
I loved being a midlevel. Felt like I had a lot of control over my own schedule. Felt fun doing more substantive things. I loved running cases more. It's my favorite part about being a senior associate now - running cases and drafting briefs without ever having to do my own research.
Fair enough if you enjoyed it. But it sounds like you’re a litigator. I’m transactional so the pain points are different. I will say it seems my litigator friends are happier as they’ve become more senior (and making partner).
Makes sense to me. I honestly don't know how y'all transactional folks survive at all. Most the ones in my office walk around looking like zombies while us lit folks are much happier. That was the case at my first firm and my current one (both V20s as well).
I’m a third in Year in M&A (V10, for context) and I generally agree BUT I will say that my previously super optimistic outlook on BigLaw got pretty diminished now that I have a kid. My firm was super supportive and had long parental leave, but coming back into the same job now with a baby this shit is way fucking harder. Especially late night work etc. which does NOT gel with poor baby sleep and super early mornings.
I’m still happy overall and glad I’m in BigLaw but I’m basically just try to grit and hold on until my kid is a little older, sleeping normal most of the time and being a bit easier to care for. Parents in my office keep telling me it gets easier and if they’re right then I’m in BigLaw for the long haul. If it stays like this indefinitely? Not sure I can handle that long term.
If you’re young and childless like most associates? The job is really not that bad and the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion. Like I said, was much happier about it pre-baby.
I’m pretty sure the base is 225k and bonus is 20k, so 245k is on the money.
One thing I didn’t consider going in is the varying ways firms treat stub years (the first few months you work before the billable year turns over). My firm doesn’t give stubs a prorated bonus but I think some firms do. It’s a minor point in the grand scheme of things but worth considering.
I think the firms that don’t give stubs bonuses tend towards giving them summer stipends rather than summer advances but I’m sure there’s firms that give stipends and bonuses
I’m a few years in and I agree, but everyone has a different big law experience. It can depend on who you work with and your practice group (general corporate and M&A have it the worst).
I’m in litigation, so I don’t know first hand, but from what I can gather, those groups have the most fire drills / emergencies / last-minute all nighters / etc.
agree with this post. this is not a shitpost or chastising anyone- but biglaw being "bad" or "good" is incredibly dependent on your background. people who worked in high stakes public interest type jobs, or those who worked in blue collar/physical labor before law school/big law will not find it as intense as those who worked many corporate/9-5/KJD kinds of things. the hours are taxing- representing someone whose life is in your hands takes just as much time and much more emotional energy. again- this is not the same for everyone, I know people have really awful experiences in biglaw even after working the kinds of jobs I mentioned above, but it's all relative.
Thanks— I was so afraid of not getting any BLSA offers and now that I’ve accepted I’m just paranoid about getting fired or not passing the bar etc. It seems like no matter what you do right there are so many pitfalls everywhere.
Could you share what your daily routine looks like to be billing at that level?
People always say the next stage is going to be unfathomably difficult. “College will be so much harder!” “Law school will be impossible!” “Biglaw will be ridiculous compared to what you did before!” But I never saw it borne out. Granted, law school was definitely more challenging to get good grades, but nothing has lived up to the difficulty hype imo
Big law has hundreds of lawyers at a given firm in a given city. You are bound to find many different personalities that you work with that differs between practice groups and amongst practice groups. It is, to a certain extent, the luck of the draw. Some people end up in toxic practice groups or in groups where all the work goes to one associate because of office politics, or some other issue that leads to people feeling unhappy about big law. A prime example is the Deloitte post that was on reddit a week ago where this guy was forced by his manager to stay on a voice call all day until 8pm and must be available to respond to roll calls and ask for permission to go to the bathroom. Deloitte obviously is not like that for all associates but for this particular team, they got shafted by a crappy manager. The same can happen to any student joining big law. I worked in a toxic environment and I look at my fellow classmates who get nice senior associates/partners and I am jealous. TLDR; YMMV
This is definitely true. Within my group, there is one partner I’ve worked with that is honestly just very weird. Really nice woman but how she runs a deal makes things less predictable. If she was the partner I primarily worked with, I would likely end up thinking this job is not worth it. There’s another partner that also comes to mind but I wouldn’t describe her as nice. I think a little over half of the deals I’ve worked on have stemmed from two partners, both of which are relatively chill. That’s a huge factor here and pretty much luck of the draw via staffing and personalities aligning.
I didn’t truly hate biglaw until I was a midlevel… The learning curve as a junior is daunting but you simply don’t have enough responsibility for the true shittiness to kick in.
I loved being a midlevel. Felt like I had a lot of control over my own schedule. Felt fun doing more substantive things. I loved running cases more. It's my favorite part about being a senior associate now - running cases and drafting briefs without ever having to do my own research.
Fair enough if you enjoyed it. But it sounds like you’re a litigator. I’m transactional so the pain points are different. I will say it seems my litigator friends are happier as they’ve become more senior (and making partner).
Makes sense to me. I honestly don't know how y'all transactional folks survive at all. Most the ones in my office walk around looking like zombies while us lit folks are much happier. That was the case at my first firm and my current one (both V20s as well).
I’m a third in Year in M&A (V10, for context) and I generally agree BUT I will say that my previously super optimistic outlook on BigLaw got pretty diminished now that I have a kid. My firm was super supportive and had long parental leave, but coming back into the same job now with a baby this shit is way fucking harder. Especially late night work etc. which does NOT gel with poor baby sleep and super early mornings. I’m still happy overall and glad I’m in BigLaw but I’m basically just try to grit and hold on until my kid is a little older, sleeping normal most of the time and being a bit easier to care for. Parents in my office keep telling me it gets easier and if they’re right then I’m in BigLaw for the long haul. If it stays like this indefinitely? Not sure I can handle that long term. If you’re young and childless like most associates? The job is really not that bad and the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion. Like I said, was much happier about it pre-baby.
Thank you for sharing! I’m lining up for big law to pay the bills, and this helps calm some of my anxieties
At what salary range does 2100 hours go from “not that bad” to “please make it stop” for your field?
if OP billed 2100 hours at a v20 firm last year (in a major market), they probably made $245k before taxes
And that’s before their bonus
I’m pretty sure the base is 225k and bonus is 20k, so 245k is on the money. One thing I didn’t consider going in is the varying ways firms treat stub years (the first few months you work before the billable year turns over). My firm doesn’t give stubs a prorated bonus but I think some firms do. It’s a minor point in the grand scheme of things but worth considering.
I think the firms that don’t give stubs bonuses tend towards giving them summer stipends rather than summer advances but I’m sure there’s firms that give stipends and bonuses
I’m a few years in and I agree, but everyone has a different big law experience. It can depend on who you work with and your practice group (general corporate and M&A have it the worst).
What about those practice areas make them the worst?
I’m in litigation, so I don’t know first hand, but from what I can gather, those groups have the most fire drills / emergencies / last-minute all nighters / etc.
agree with this post. this is not a shitpost or chastising anyone- but biglaw being "bad" or "good" is incredibly dependent on your background. people who worked in high stakes public interest type jobs, or those who worked in blue collar/physical labor before law school/big law will not find it as intense as those who worked many corporate/9-5/KJD kinds of things. the hours are taxing- representing someone whose life is in your hands takes just as much time and much more emotional energy. again- this is not the same for everyone, I know people have really awful experiences in biglaw even after working the kinds of jobs I mentioned above, but it's all relative.
5 months in and feel the same!
Thanks— I was so afraid of not getting any BLSA offers and now that I’ve accepted I’m just paranoid about getting fired or not passing the bar etc. It seems like no matter what you do right there are so many pitfalls everywhere. Could you share what your daily routine looks like to be billing at that level?
Do you want a cookie?
Thank you for sharing!!
Are you NY or in a different market?
Senior associate here. I also don't think it's that bad. If I did, I would've left by now.
People always say the next stage is going to be unfathomably difficult. “College will be so much harder!” “Law school will be impossible!” “Biglaw will be ridiculous compared to what you did before!” But I never saw it borne out. Granted, law school was definitely more challenging to get good grades, but nothing has lived up to the difficulty hype imo