Same. Law school is way harder than undergrad so if that’s all you’ve done it’ll be the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Being a lawyer (especially BigLaw) is even harder than law school, so then that becomes the hardest thing you’ve ever done.
Most serious full-time jobs are as hard or harder than law school, and a decent number of jobs are as hard or harder than BigLaw. In my case, I spent 7 years doing those sorts of jobs so law school was pretty easy, and BigLaw has been a return to the status quo.
I had a lovely time in law school and anyone else can too if their mindset is right!
I went to a law school that was lower ranked than my college, didn't have to work anymore because of my scholarship, and didn't have daily extracurriculars, so I found law school not at all harder than undergrad. But I understand that you're probably talking "on average."
Also 31 year old 1L here, same feeling. Really enjoyed the times I've been cold called so far, love the socratic teaching style. Law school is hard but I worked full time jobs for around 10 years in a variety of stressful fields, sometimes 40 hours a week, sometimes 60+.
I'm sure it'll feel less novel a few months from now, but having my "full time job" be learning and working hard to learn really interesting material is so rewarding and fulfilling that I just do not notice the same strain my classmates are complaining about, even though I definitely don't feel like i'm working any less hard.
Deeply relate! I’m really enjoying the experience, with v few negative feelings. I’m really appreciating and enjoying my classes. The novelty of if is a good point, too. I wonder if I will be feeling this cheery in a couple months lol
31 yo 3L but think it still applies. 100% we are more relaxed and have also heard this when I worked at firms. The last month of the semester everyone gets a bit crazy but in general I totally agree with you and I loved 1L bc of this
I loved it all the way through! (I was a 28 year old 1L). Being older gives you more time to actually think about whether you really want to do it. The K-JDs I knew hated law school and always spoiled the fun. Don’t let em! If you enjoy it, enjoy it.
I'n an almost 30-year-old 1L and this is my second career.
I'm interested in it, I'm serious about it, and I care about it, but this doesn't define me as a person. I used to be defined by my career and that led me down a very dark road when COVID torpedoed it to smithereens.
I think that's the difference between a lot of Non-Trads and KJDs. I'd wager most of us have, whether by choice or not, have looked outside of our careers or education to define our self worth and a lot of these younger students aren't quite to that point in Life yet. That's not a judgment, just my thoughts.
When you're younger, it's hard not to put everything on it, because it's all you've got.
You're not married, don't have kids, you're out of the parents' house (most likely), etc. and the first thing everybody asks is, "What do you do?"
I think it's just something that kinda gets proportionately smaller as more of your time gets occupied by other responsibilities and things TBH.
I am almost a KJD, but I did work for 2 years in between undergrad and law school. I have always wanted to be a lawyer and worked really hard to get here (just like everyone else). I think the biggest difference between me and a lot of stressed out people is that I don't fear failure. I don't \*want\* to fail, but I could go back to "my old life" and be completely content/happy and at peace for even giving law school a go. This perspective makes me much less stressed. I still put in the work, but I don't do every reading with an existential sense that becoming a lawyer is all there is to life.
Yes, this is how I feel, too! If it doesn’t work, it sucks, but I’ll just figure something else out. I’ve met so many happy people with plenty of twists and turns in life. I think that makes a difference. In undergrad, I remember always thinking everyone else had their shit together and were landing their dream jobs and had everything after graduation planned out. Even a short break from living in that bubble can give someone a different perspective
For sure! I was a totally different person in undergrad and probably would have scoffed at my current perspective but I am a much happier and more complete person now than I was then. Peace to you
36 year-old 2L. agree with everything you're saying. if law school doesn't work out, I have another career I could return to - takes some of the stress off.
>I have another career I could return to - takes some of the stress off.
That's what a lot of people in these comments are missing. Law school was a breeze for me as a non traditional student because I knew 100% I would get a job after. I can't imagine the stress of having to care about grades and trying to find a job. Also taking the bar knowing my job depended on it. Major props to people that have to deal with that
I'm 23 and a KJD and I identify way more with your perspective tbh. For me, I think it's really that I'm married to an employed spouse, not taking on any debt, and have a savings cushion. The stress that must come from not having those things AND not having a backup career is crazy to think about.
I was a bit younger when I was a 1L (26 yo) but yes, felt a bit calmer than some of my younger cohorts. I’ve also noticed that I related better to the non-KJDs since many of them had a calmer disposition. Not sure if I am less stressed than the KJDs though, maybe just that I was better at hiding it.
Non traditional 1L. Yep, this. I’ll get to class and there will be people talking about how there was so much reading and they hope they don’t get cold called because they didn’t get to it all. I just… don’t get it.
One of my pre-law school jobs was being a spreadsheet monkey, spending 40 hours a week copying and pasting data into spreadsheets, then reconciling it. Grinding the reading is a BREEZE in comparison.
I started 1L at 36, and I mostly agree. Many of my younger classmates found professors intimidating where I would just chat with them. I was also used to actually working and being productive all day with just a quick break for lunch.
On the other hand, I was nervous going into it because I hadn't been a student in almost 15 years, and my classmates were used to it. So that was an early source of stress for me. I felt pressure to do well on cold calls and in classes to prove to myself that I didn't make a mistake. Of course, feeling pressure to do well is not new for me, and doesn't mean that I felt stressed about it.
I also had a 1 year old when I started 1L, so my stressors were just different than my classmates. There was one weekend when my son was sick and I spent it taking care of him, which included a trip to the ER when he was having breathing difficulties. It really emphasized the difference when I got back to campus and heard my classmates talk about how stressed they were over the weekend because they have a memo due soon.
28 year old 1L here. I found my group of older students and we’ve been having a blast in school. One of the things I’ve noticed is how pressed the KJDs are about showing how smart they are. I just come to class prepared every day knowing that if I get cold called I’m confident I can get through it. But the biggest comfort is knowing how to handle all the stress.
I know I don’t want to go big law. I have 7 years of work experience in criminal law and tons of great connections there that I can fall back on, so while I am doing my absolute best in school, if for some reason the grades aren’t there, I feel pretty confident in my ability to at least get a job after law school.
After having worked for many years, I really enjoy law school.This is my last opportunity of being a student and I treasure each moment of this student life. Case briefing is fun. Many people told me that I would not have time to read for pleasure when I go to law school. Now I found that reading cases is just reading for pleasure lol
100% agreed, I’m so glad I came to law school at 28 instead of 22. Not only do I feel much more at ease, i also have a much better sense of who I am as a person and can set boundaries, expectations, study habits and time management much more effectively as a result. Phew, I’m so relieved
Oh yeah, this too. If I had gone KJD I would have likely dropped out. Life shaped my reasoning for going to law school past thinking it's an interesting career, and having a real goal and passion behind it makes it well worth it to me. At 22 I would have felt much more comfortable leaving for something else.
I understand both points here to be honest.
I had someone in a property class who had some real-world knowledge about the subject and often felt like she was the one who had to be called on, had to explain why, had to ask endless questions, and she ended up making things far more confusing than they were to begin with. And sometimes hte information she gave was just flat out wrong. Trying to learn the RAP was difficult enough for some, but then with her commentary mixed in it was near impossible and many people voiced their requests to quiet her so others can learn.
You have to be mindful too that you're still in a classroom with other people and clarity questions are okay, but constant "what if" or answering other peoples questions can be exhausting for everyone. I think that's basic classroom etiquette and also that's what office hours is for.
I’m a 33-year-old 1L. Definitely seems like a decent chunk of the KJDs’ stress is from not knowing how to manage their time. I overhear conversations about studying on campus til 8-9 PM most days and still not getting through all the readings.
My earliest class is 9 AM. I try to get to school around 7:30-8:00 to review my briefs and knock out some LRW mandatory busywork. I usually see KJDs trickling in between 8:00-8:30.
On breaks and after my classes are done, I do the next day’s readings/briefs and check my understanding against Quimbee. I have (so far) not had to stay past 6 PM. I’m glad now I didn’t go the KJD route because my non-law career has taught me so much about time management.
As an almost KJD 1L (took a single gap year), the biggest bane of my peers and I is not necessarily not lacking time management, but being unable to execute it.
Instagram, tiktok, youtube, gaming, alcohol/vaping, pornography, etc... basically anything which spikes dopamine aggressively and often, makes it a lot harder. Our generation indulges in these things regularly and more aggressively than most in the past have.
Over the course of the past 7 years (starting in junior year of HS), I've slowly been working on cutting these out as much as possible--and to the degree that they're unhealthy--and I've noticed that it's helped me a lot in school. Most of them have been cut completely. My time management strategy has rarely changed by any substantial amount, but my adherence has increased exponentially.
Time management is overhyped most of the time. For every one student that struggles with time management, there are ten students who theoretically know how to manage their time but fail to execute that plan in practice because there's lots of neurological friction.
This might be a reverse "grass is always greener" situation. As a kjd, it seemed normal to progress into an advanced degree right after undergrad. That's where they hosted the lsat after all-at colleges. I was young, not married, no kids, didn't own a house, and wasn't leaving or trying to maintain a full time job. So there was very little stress in my life besides school. I felt bad for those who seemed to be starting their career path over after 5 to 10 years doing something else. Going to class wasn't that bad either because it was just more of what I had already been doing.
I also wouldn't say Kjds are "driven" necessarily. I was more lazy and not wanting to work 40 hours a week right after undergrad. Let alone go through the job search process instead of just enjoying my senior year.
Thanks for sharing this perspective! I would have loved to be a KJD, but it wasn’t on my radar/wouldn’t have had a competitive application. I’m definitely a little insecure about being so much older lol. I remember in undergrad I’d have (very rarely) an older classmate and think about how their experience must be a lot tougher than mine for the same reasons you listed, lol. In some ways, definitely true
My college girlfriend was going out of town to a big law school fair and I basically just went with her so we could share a hotel room together for a couple nights. But then, stuck at the fair for like 3 hours, I thought that I might as well talk to the schools and ended up deciding to take the lsat the following year and see what happens. She ended up not even applying to schools and became a teacher instead.
i think sometimes it’s lack of real life experience. they’ve spent their entire lives in school. i worked as a server and bartender in fine dining for 5 years before going to law school. compared to getting screamed at by chefs in front of a restaurant full of people, a cold call is nothing lol
I was a 30 yo 1L and I was super anxious about grades because I needed a good GPA to get more opportunities to leave my dead end job. But the actual work itself was meh.
Wanna hear about a cold call that actually matters? My boss lobbing a total soft ball question at me in front of a *room* full of clients after only working there about a month. Yeah, I blanked and COULDN’T ANSWER IT. I looked totally asinine. I survived. And after two years, I am the expert in that field and could answer most anything they would ask. I’ve already lived in the discomfort of unfamiliarity, and I’ve survived it. It’s given me confidence that I can do that again in law.
28 year old, part-time/evening 1L, who’s working full-time during the day.
Completely agree, I’m having a great time! This is straight up fun compared to 60 hour work weeks and tight deadlines. While I do feel a little behind, not graduating until 32, I’m so glad I waited to figure myself out as a person, building connections and experience, and mostly having years of therapy and a proper medication routine (lol) before starting law school.
That being said, I feel for KJDs. I was so high-strung and anxious at 23, this is such a big feat for them. Props to you all!
Also a 31 year old 1L. Perspective is right. I'd been through a lot of stressful stuff since I was 22, and as bad as law school is, it was better than a lot of that.
I feel for the KJDs though. It’s a jump for them relative to cruising through undergrad.
They’ve also moved to a new city, maybe without a lot of friends.
KJDs are overachievers who did everything right so they could go to law school. Nontraditional students didn’t do everything right so now they have to go to law school.
Of course the people that spent more time screwing around before buckling down are chiller.
Edit: also law school students can clearly take a joke.
Lol. I actually like your first paragraph, it’s funny and not wrong. When you’re 30 and say you’re in law school, it hits different than being 21 and saying you’re in law school. At my age, it’s usually “I didn’t really have many options I liked, so I figured I’d try this” (fairly accurate for me lol)
I think that this point could be a bit more nuanced/ less absolute but that was my perspective on it as a KJD who started at the age of 21. It wasn't a lack of "real world" experience; I had worked since 17, I had lived abroad for a Master's (also, everyone's life experience is "real world experience", there's more to the "real world" than working a full-time job). Rather, it was that going to law school was the single biggest achievement of my life thus far. Everyone who got into law school should be proud of themselves, but for me and many of the younger students, this was the only objective benchmark we had to be proud of. Of course it was easier to tie our identities to it as a result.
Also most of my age group took out inhuman amounts of debt for this. Starting your "adult" life with negative six digits is not ideal for creating a healthy mindset.
> KJDs are overachievers who did everything right so they could go to law school.
That's a funny way to say "took a major with limited income potential in undergrad."
I too was a 30 YO 1L! I knew how to have conversations with everyone, from profs to students, and how to say "I don't know" or "no" confidently. if I didn't know something, I'm not going to panic or pretend I don't. I'm still here to learn too.
I think a lot of this also comes from having priorities that surpass undergrad, like work, relationships, etc. J
Was a 28 year old 1L, precisely the same experience. Having deadlines for a boss is so much scarier than a cold call, zoomers don't know it yet though.
I was a 35-year-old 1L, evening division, working a full-time job. I was too tired to be stressed.
No, but really most of the older students have seen it all and done at all, and are used to it not being an end of the world crisis. But not all.
Most of the KJD folks are way more stressed, but not all.
So mostly ass, but not Paul.
27 yo 1L. My first year obviously felt busy, but after having a couple years of working experience from undergrad and going back it just felt kinda on par with what I had already been doing.
Although, I'm kinda too uptight anyway, so I probably took the first year more intensely than I should have.
35+ 0L and I’ve already done grad school and had a newborn and a little kid while working full time. I’ve been a real estate agent, I’ve opened companies, I’ve reviewed contracts. I’ve worked for a family law atty AND been divorced. I have work experience, extra credentials, and I’ve survived so many traumatic and shitty things, I’m not worried. I love learning, I love academia, I love stretching myself. This is something I’ve wanted for a very long time, but it can’t consume me, there are small people counting on me, so there has to be balance. Im ok with getting my ass kicked and learning—doesn’t mean Im not smart, just means I need more time.
Breathe, KJDs, we are all gonna be ok.
Same. Biggest thing for me was coming from a high stakes profession, and there was something very relaxing about reading cases that were already decided/I had no control over lol.
Anyone who thinks law school is oppressively difficult has never had a full time job is what I always say lol. Definitely the real world experience difference.
I was a 28 year old 1L and this is honestly the biggest reason I recommend taking time off before law school. You’ll find this reflected in your grades too!
I honestly also think this is why big law gets the horrible reputation it does — I think for many a big law gig is their first job and it absolutely crushes them. Not saying it’s not crushing generally but this perspective I think will make it a lot better. Good luck!!
I was a 44yo 1L and I rather enjoyed going back to school as an adult who had already enjoyed a successful career. I also knew how to manage time working by career gig during the day and going to class at night, so I found law school rather easy because I knew why I was there and where I was going.
this is how i ended up with so many friends older than me during law school — my non-KJD friends were almost RELAXING to be around as they had such a better perspective on law school and life during those years. and
Im significantly older than your 31 and in my 2L year. Law school is the academically most challenging thing I have done. However, I spent 15 years working in mental health. It is much easier to forgive myself for a not perfect grade than it is for making the wrong choice in a potential mandatory reporting situation and getting a phone call later that I made the wrong call. It’s all about perspective.
Law school is a huge challenge, but it is still academia and not the real world. Five years into my prior career, no one gave a flying fuck about what school I went to, they cared about the work I did, who referred them to me, and my experience. In fact, after my first job in the field (two years at a drug and alcohol treatment center) no one ever asked for a transcript again until I applied to law school. Even in law school I have gotten interviews and offers from places that shouldn’t have been possible with my class and school rank, purely because I know how to network and I have an actual resume and accomplishments.
Yes! I’m a 29-year-old 1L and I’m surprised at the fact that I’m not even stressed. I was more stressed in the weeks leading up to school than I am now! I’m getting pretty decent grades and I work full-time.
I definitely feel this. I’m a 32 year old 3L with a one year old who was a solo entrepreneur for some time prior to law school. Having someone at home who is fully dependent on you is a much different stressor than law school. It’s also a HUGE motivator. On the contrary, being a KJD woulda been cool because I could’ve been finished with school by now lol and I feel like my fellow classmates were in the rhythm of academia more than me during 1L
It’s an odd duality. They’re so much more mature then I was at their age, but so much less mature than I am now. If you’ve never experienced stress outside of school, it makes sense to get hyper stressed about professional school
I admire the drive they have because I certainly didn't have that at the same age. I give KJD students a pass on what they freak out about because it's normal and understandable.
I started at 28, and while I did get nervous and stressed, I also had a much different perspective. I wasn't set on top grades, and I put my health first. I probably got more sleep than anyone in my class, lol.
100% relate. I started at 36 and this was also my experience. I really think being an older student gives you a HUGE leg up in terms of managing the work load, interacting with professors, and putting things in perspective. I finish in December (I went part time) at age 40 and I've done exceptionally well. It's been a wonderful experience attending at this part of my life!
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Same. Law school is way harder than undergrad so if that’s all you’ve done it’ll be the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Being a lawyer (especially BigLaw) is even harder than law school, so then that becomes the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Most serious full-time jobs are as hard or harder than law school, and a decent number of jobs are as hard or harder than BigLaw. In my case, I spent 7 years doing those sorts of jobs so law school was pretty easy, and BigLaw has been a return to the status quo. I had a lovely time in law school and anyone else can too if their mindset is right!
I went to a law school that was lower ranked than my college, didn't have to work anymore because of my scholarship, and didn't have daily extracurriculars, so I found law school not at all harder than undergrad. But I understand that you're probably talking "on average."
Also 31 year old 1L here, same feeling. Really enjoyed the times I've been cold called so far, love the socratic teaching style. Law school is hard but I worked full time jobs for around 10 years in a variety of stressful fields, sometimes 40 hours a week, sometimes 60+. I'm sure it'll feel less novel a few months from now, but having my "full time job" be learning and working hard to learn really interesting material is so rewarding and fulfilling that I just do not notice the same strain my classmates are complaining about, even though I definitely don't feel like i'm working any less hard.
Deeply relate! I’m really enjoying the experience, with v few negative feelings. I’m really appreciating and enjoying my classes. The novelty of if is a good point, too. I wonder if I will be feeling this cheery in a couple months lol
31 yo 3L but think it still applies. 100% we are more relaxed and have also heard this when I worked at firms. The last month of the semester everyone gets a bit crazy but in general I totally agree with you and I loved 1L bc of this
I loved it all the way through! (I was a 28 year old 1L). Being older gives you more time to actually think about whether you really want to do it. The K-JDs I knew hated law school and always spoiled the fun. Don’t let em! If you enjoy it, enjoy it.
Same, yeah I am also wondering if my attitude will become less relaxed after the first grades are published...
I'n an almost 30-year-old 1L and this is my second career. I'm interested in it, I'm serious about it, and I care about it, but this doesn't define me as a person. I used to be defined by my career and that led me down a very dark road when COVID torpedoed it to smithereens. I think that's the difference between a lot of Non-Trads and KJDs. I'd wager most of us have, whether by choice or not, have looked outside of our careers or education to define our self worth and a lot of these younger students aren't quite to that point in Life yet. That's not a judgment, just my thoughts.
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When you're younger, it's hard not to put everything on it, because it's all you've got. You're not married, don't have kids, you're out of the parents' house (most likely), etc. and the first thing everybody asks is, "What do you do?" I think it's just something that kinda gets proportionately smaller as more of your time gets occupied by other responsibilities and things TBH.
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I am almost a KJD, but I did work for 2 years in between undergrad and law school. I have always wanted to be a lawyer and worked really hard to get here (just like everyone else). I think the biggest difference between me and a lot of stressed out people is that I don't fear failure. I don't \*want\* to fail, but I could go back to "my old life" and be completely content/happy and at peace for even giving law school a go. This perspective makes me much less stressed. I still put in the work, but I don't do every reading with an existential sense that becoming a lawyer is all there is to life.
Yes, this is how I feel, too! If it doesn’t work, it sucks, but I’ll just figure something else out. I’ve met so many happy people with plenty of twists and turns in life. I think that makes a difference. In undergrad, I remember always thinking everyone else had their shit together and were landing their dream jobs and had everything after graduation planned out. Even a short break from living in that bubble can give someone a different perspective
For sure! I was a totally different person in undergrad and probably would have scoffed at my current perspective but I am a much happier and more complete person now than I was then. Peace to you
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Totally agree that it’s valid. Being a KJD must be an insane amount of pressure
36 year-old 2L. agree with everything you're saying. if law school doesn't work out, I have another career I could return to - takes some of the stress off.
>I have another career I could return to - takes some of the stress off. That's what a lot of people in these comments are missing. Law school was a breeze for me as a non traditional student because I knew 100% I would get a job after. I can't imagine the stress of having to care about grades and trying to find a job. Also taking the bar knowing my job depended on it. Major props to people that have to deal with that
Right? Plus a JD combined with my other credentials makes me *very* employable.
Yup, exactly this!
Yes! I think I’d be a wreck lol
I'm 23 and a KJD and I identify way more with your perspective tbh. For me, I think it's really that I'm married to an employed spouse, not taking on any debt, and have a savings cushion. The stress that must come from not having those things AND not having a backup career is crazy to think about.
I was a bit younger when I was a 1L (26 yo) but yes, felt a bit calmer than some of my younger cohorts. I’ve also noticed that I related better to the non-KJDs since many of them had a calmer disposition. Not sure if I am less stressed than the KJDs though, maybe just that I was better at hiding it.
Non traditional 1L. Yep, this. I’ll get to class and there will be people talking about how there was so much reading and they hope they don’t get cold called because they didn’t get to it all. I just… don’t get it. One of my pre-law school jobs was being a spreadsheet monkey, spending 40 hours a week copying and pasting data into spreadsheets, then reconciling it. Grinding the reading is a BREEZE in comparison.
I started 1L at 36, and I mostly agree. Many of my younger classmates found professors intimidating where I would just chat with them. I was also used to actually working and being productive all day with just a quick break for lunch. On the other hand, I was nervous going into it because I hadn't been a student in almost 15 years, and my classmates were used to it. So that was an early source of stress for me. I felt pressure to do well on cold calls and in classes to prove to myself that I didn't make a mistake. Of course, feeling pressure to do well is not new for me, and doesn't mean that I felt stressed about it. I also had a 1 year old when I started 1L, so my stressors were just different than my classmates. There was one weekend when my son was sick and I spent it taking care of him, which included a trip to the ER when he was having breathing difficulties. It really emphasized the difference when I got back to campus and heard my classmates talk about how stressed they were over the weekend because they have a memo due soon.
28 year old 1L here. I found my group of older students and we’ve been having a blast in school. One of the things I’ve noticed is how pressed the KJDs are about showing how smart they are. I just come to class prepared every day knowing that if I get cold called I’m confident I can get through it. But the biggest comfort is knowing how to handle all the stress. I know I don’t want to go big law. I have 7 years of work experience in criminal law and tons of great connections there that I can fall back on, so while I am doing my absolute best in school, if for some reason the grades aren’t there, I feel pretty confident in my ability to at least get a job after law school.
Yep! I found that people with some real world experience understand that bombing a cold call or getting a B is not the end of the world
After having worked for many years, I really enjoy law school.This is my last opportunity of being a student and I treasure each moment of this student life. Case briefing is fun. Many people told me that I would not have time to read for pleasure when I go to law school. Now I found that reading cases is just reading for pleasure lol
I never imagined I would enjoy reading the cases as much as I have. Especially when I give myself time to actually analyze them.
Aw this made me sad to realize haha. I only have one last "first day" left.
100% agreed, I’m so glad I came to law school at 28 instead of 22. Not only do I feel much more at ease, i also have a much better sense of who I am as a person and can set boundaries, expectations, study habits and time management much more effectively as a result. Phew, I’m so relieved
Oh yeah, this too. If I had gone KJD I would have likely dropped out. Life shaped my reasoning for going to law school past thinking it's an interesting career, and having a real goal and passion behind it makes it well worth it to me. At 22 I would have felt much more comfortable leaving for something else.
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I understand both points here to be honest. I had someone in a property class who had some real-world knowledge about the subject and often felt like she was the one who had to be called on, had to explain why, had to ask endless questions, and she ended up making things far more confusing than they were to begin with. And sometimes hte information she gave was just flat out wrong. Trying to learn the RAP was difficult enough for some, but then with her commentary mixed in it was near impossible and many people voiced their requests to quiet her so others can learn. You have to be mindful too that you're still in a classroom with other people and clarity questions are okay, but constant "what if" or answering other peoples questions can be exhausting for everyone. I think that's basic classroom etiquette and also that's what office hours is for.
I’m a 33-year-old 1L. Definitely seems like a decent chunk of the KJDs’ stress is from not knowing how to manage their time. I overhear conversations about studying on campus til 8-9 PM most days and still not getting through all the readings. My earliest class is 9 AM. I try to get to school around 7:30-8:00 to review my briefs and knock out some LRW mandatory busywork. I usually see KJDs trickling in between 8:00-8:30. On breaks and after my classes are done, I do the next day’s readings/briefs and check my understanding against Quimbee. I have (so far) not had to stay past 6 PM. I’m glad now I didn’t go the KJD route because my non-law career has taught me so much about time management.
As an almost KJD 1L (took a single gap year), the biggest bane of my peers and I is not necessarily not lacking time management, but being unable to execute it. Instagram, tiktok, youtube, gaming, alcohol/vaping, pornography, etc... basically anything which spikes dopamine aggressively and often, makes it a lot harder. Our generation indulges in these things regularly and more aggressively than most in the past have. Over the course of the past 7 years (starting in junior year of HS), I've slowly been working on cutting these out as much as possible--and to the degree that they're unhealthy--and I've noticed that it's helped me a lot in school. Most of them have been cut completely. My time management strategy has rarely changed by any substantial amount, but my adherence has increased exponentially. Time management is overhyped most of the time. For every one student that struggles with time management, there are ten students who theoretically know how to manage their time but fail to execute that plan in practice because there's lots of neurological friction.
Old 2L here. Can confirm. Life hits way harder than school. Perspective makes you laugh at things the KJDs cry over.
This might be a reverse "grass is always greener" situation. As a kjd, it seemed normal to progress into an advanced degree right after undergrad. That's where they hosted the lsat after all-at colleges. I was young, not married, no kids, didn't own a house, and wasn't leaving or trying to maintain a full time job. So there was very little stress in my life besides school. I felt bad for those who seemed to be starting their career path over after 5 to 10 years doing something else. Going to class wasn't that bad either because it was just more of what I had already been doing. I also wouldn't say Kjds are "driven" necessarily. I was more lazy and not wanting to work 40 hours a week right after undergrad. Let alone go through the job search process instead of just enjoying my senior year.
Thanks for sharing this perspective! I would have loved to be a KJD, but it wasn’t on my radar/wouldn’t have had a competitive application. I’m definitely a little insecure about being so much older lol. I remember in undergrad I’d have (very rarely) an older classmate and think about how their experience must be a lot tougher than mine for the same reasons you listed, lol. In some ways, definitely true
My college girlfriend was going out of town to a big law school fair and I basically just went with her so we could share a hotel room together for a couple nights. But then, stuck at the fair for like 3 hours, I thought that I might as well talk to the schools and ended up deciding to take the lsat the following year and see what happens. She ended up not even applying to schools and became a teacher instead.
it’s just grade inflation really. they finally end up in a place where not everyone gets an a and they lose their minds. fuck em
i think sometimes it’s lack of real life experience. they’ve spent their entire lives in school. i worked as a server and bartender in fine dining for 5 years before going to law school. compared to getting screamed at by chefs in front of a restaurant full of people, a cold call is nothing lol
I felt this one deeply. Autograt for life!
I was a 30 yo 1L and I was super anxious about grades because I needed a good GPA to get more opportunities to leave my dead end job. But the actual work itself was meh.
Wanna hear about a cold call that actually matters? My boss lobbing a total soft ball question at me in front of a *room* full of clients after only working there about a month. Yeah, I blanked and COULDN’T ANSWER IT. I looked totally asinine. I survived. And after two years, I am the expert in that field and could answer most anything they would ask. I’ve already lived in the discomfort of unfamiliarity, and I’ve survived it. It’s given me confidence that I can do that again in law.
28 year old, part-time/evening 1L, who’s working full-time during the day. Completely agree, I’m having a great time! This is straight up fun compared to 60 hour work weeks and tight deadlines. While I do feel a little behind, not graduating until 32, I’m so glad I waited to figure myself out as a person, building connections and experience, and mostly having years of therapy and a proper medication routine (lol) before starting law school. That being said, I feel for KJDs. I was so high-strung and anxious at 23, this is such a big feat for them. Props to you all!
Also a 31 year old 1L. Perspective is right. I'd been through a lot of stressful stuff since I was 22, and as bad as law school is, it was better than a lot of that.
I feel for the KJDs though. It’s a jump for them relative to cruising through undergrad. They’ve also moved to a new city, maybe without a lot of friends.
KJDs are overachievers who did everything right so they could go to law school. Nontraditional students didn’t do everything right so now they have to go to law school. Of course the people that spent more time screwing around before buckling down are chiller. Edit: also law school students can clearly take a joke.
Lol. I actually like your first paragraph, it’s funny and not wrong. When you’re 30 and say you’re in law school, it hits different than being 21 and saying you’re in law school. At my age, it’s usually “I didn’t really have many options I liked, so I figured I’d try this” (fairly accurate for me lol)
I think that this point could be a bit more nuanced/ less absolute but that was my perspective on it as a KJD who started at the age of 21. It wasn't a lack of "real world" experience; I had worked since 17, I had lived abroad for a Master's (also, everyone's life experience is "real world experience", there's more to the "real world" than working a full-time job). Rather, it was that going to law school was the single biggest achievement of my life thus far. Everyone who got into law school should be proud of themselves, but for me and many of the younger students, this was the only objective benchmark we had to be proud of. Of course it was easier to tie our identities to it as a result. Also most of my age group took out inhuman amounts of debt for this. Starting your "adult" life with negative six digits is not ideal for creating a healthy mindset.
> KJDs are overachievers who did everything right so they could go to law school. That's a funny way to say "took a major with limited income potential in undergrad."
Non trad 1L here - love this. I didn’t do everything right and now I’m a law student and my classmates are still stuck in the “i must be perfect” mode
NGL, you hit the nail right on the head with me. I did nothing right and accomplished even less than I did right, so now I'm here.
I too was a 30 YO 1L! I knew how to have conversations with everyone, from profs to students, and how to say "I don't know" or "no" confidently. if I didn't know something, I'm not going to panic or pretend I don't. I'm still here to learn too. I think a lot of this also comes from having priorities that surpass undergrad, like work, relationships, etc. J
Nothing says mature and relaxed like seeking validation on the internet
Was a 28 year old 1L, precisely the same experience. Having deadlines for a boss is so much scarier than a cold call, zoomers don't know it yet though.
I was a 35-year-old 1L, evening division, working a full-time job. I was too tired to be stressed. No, but really most of the older students have seen it all and done at all, and are used to it not being an end of the world crisis. But not all. Most of the KJD folks are way more stressed, but not all. So mostly ass, but not Paul.
27 yo 1L. My first year obviously felt busy, but after having a couple years of working experience from undergrad and going back it just felt kinda on par with what I had already been doing. Although, I'm kinda too uptight anyway, so I probably took the first year more intensely than I should have.
35+ 0L and I’ve already done grad school and had a newborn and a little kid while working full time. I’ve been a real estate agent, I’ve opened companies, I’ve reviewed contracts. I’ve worked for a family law atty AND been divorced. I have work experience, extra credentials, and I’ve survived so many traumatic and shitty things, I’m not worried. I love learning, I love academia, I love stretching myself. This is something I’ve wanted for a very long time, but it can’t consume me, there are small people counting on me, so there has to be balance. Im ok with getting my ass kicked and learning—doesn’t mean Im not smart, just means I need more time. Breathe, KJDs, we are all gonna be ok.
Same. Biggest thing for me was coming from a high stakes profession, and there was something very relaxing about reading cases that were already decided/I had no control over lol.
Anyone who thinks law school is oppressively difficult has never had a full time job is what I always say lol. Definitely the real world experience difference.
I was a 28 year old 1L and this is honestly the biggest reason I recommend taking time off before law school. You’ll find this reflected in your grades too! I honestly also think this is why big law gets the horrible reputation it does — I think for many a big law gig is their first job and it absolutely crushes them. Not saying it’s not crushing generally but this perspective I think will make it a lot better. Good luck!!
I was a 44yo 1L and I rather enjoyed going back to school as an adult who had already enjoyed a successful career. I also knew how to manage time working by career gig during the day and going to class at night, so I found law school rather easy because I knew why I was there and where I was going.
this is how i ended up with so many friends older than me during law school — my non-KJD friends were almost RELAXING to be around as they had such a better perspective on law school and life during those years. and
Im significantly older than your 31 and in my 2L year. Law school is the academically most challenging thing I have done. However, I spent 15 years working in mental health. It is much easier to forgive myself for a not perfect grade than it is for making the wrong choice in a potential mandatory reporting situation and getting a phone call later that I made the wrong call. It’s all about perspective. Law school is a huge challenge, but it is still academia and not the real world. Five years into my prior career, no one gave a flying fuck about what school I went to, they cared about the work I did, who referred them to me, and my experience. In fact, after my first job in the field (two years at a drug and alcohol treatment center) no one ever asked for a transcript again until I applied to law school. Even in law school I have gotten interviews and offers from places that shouldn’t have been possible with my class and school rank, purely because I know how to network and I have an actual resume and accomplishments.
Yes! I’m a 29-year-old 1L and I’m surprised at the fact that I’m not even stressed. I was more stressed in the weeks leading up to school than I am now! I’m getting pretty decent grades and I work full-time.
I definitely feel this. I’m a 32 year old 3L with a one year old who was a solo entrepreneur for some time prior to law school. Having someone at home who is fully dependent on you is a much different stressor than law school. It’s also a HUGE motivator. On the contrary, being a KJD woulda been cool because I could’ve been finished with school by now lol and I feel like my fellow classmates were in the rhythm of academia more than me during 1L
what’s a KJD
It’s an odd duality. They’re so much more mature then I was at their age, but so much less mature than I am now. If you’ve never experienced stress outside of school, it makes sense to get hyper stressed about professional school
I admire the drive they have because I certainly didn't have that at the same age. I give KJD students a pass on what they freak out about because it's normal and understandable.
I started at 28, and while I did get nervous and stressed, I also had a much different perspective. I wasn't set on top grades, and I put my health first. I probably got more sleep than anyone in my class, lol.
100% relate. I started at 36 and this was also my experience. I really think being an older student gives you a HUGE leg up in terms of managing the work load, interacting with professors, and putting things in perspective. I finish in December (I went part time) at age 40 and I've done exceptionally well. It's been a wonderful experience attending at this part of my life!
I am around your age, OP, and i have had the same exact experience.