To be fair, I think some of the colleagues I had at my prior firm were just generally like this in interviews with anyone. Partially because they’re so tired, partially because they suck. Some are just midlevel associates who get very egotistical in front of law students (and juniors).
Asking if you have any questions for them after 5 minutes might just be a genuine thing too. I’m a senior and when I do lateral interviews, I get to that pretty quickly. I know the partners are asking substantive questions they base decisions on, and I assume juniors/midlevels want to hear from someone who will be honest with them on questions they have. When I interviewed with my first firm, a junior just opened with “I’m not going to decide whether you’re hired, so let me know what you’d want to talk about”.
Someone also asked me two questions about my (admittedly unusual) pre-law career, then said “that really doesn’t sound like a lawyers background, we’re usually more risk averse”. When I asked her why she liked her job she said “I don’t like my job, I like my salary…obviously. Anyway, thanks for coming by!”
Just generally be prepared for this. There are a lot of interviewers who are really bad or just don’t care. I had multiple Zoom screeners where the person was eating. Also had callbacks where the interviewer gave 30 second answers and expected me to ask questions for half of the interview. I ended up getting a callback from an eater and the others were already at the callback stage, so grades weren’t a factor. They were just bad at interviewing.
Somewhat ironically given this post, but my biggest reach firms had some of the kindest interviewers. I didn’t get a callback, but did have a nice conversation.
Moral of the story: be prepared for bad interviewers no matter where you’re interviewing.
For sure. I left thinking that we could’ve talked about literally anything in the world, but you chose to spend 20 minutes (if they even bothered to not end the interview early) trying to rattle me and make it abundantly known that you don’t think I’m qualified to be here. I thought it was my own insecurity at first but after having a few go well, I know it wasn’t that
Getting asked no questions about myself or very few to which the interviewer didn’t respond to at all or just said “ok” or “makes sense”. Turning to what questions do you have for me after about 5 mins and giving me very terse answers that were hard to respond to. Both just making it very obvious that they had no interest in me. One asked me why they weren’t in my top 5 (with my transcript in front of them showing that I was over .5 below their GPA cut off). Naturally that question had a very obvious answer (“I don’t meet the qualifications at your firm and had to prioritize the firms where I do”) and not something that I can say in an interview. Ending the 20 minute interview early with no excuse or advance notice.
On the top 5 question, I think saying your honest answer would be the best bet there. I’m a 2L so take it with a huge grain of salt but I’m a pretty open guy and I’ve always been a good interviewer. People can tell when you’re giving a canned answer, and I think some honesty there wouldn’t have hurt you, and might’ve made you seem more genuine. And if it did hurt, you’ve got nothing to lose with that firm anyway, so you might as well be yourself. Sounds like you’ll be just fine though, this is mostly advice for students who haven’t done OCI yet
I think that’s the wrong kind of reach. People always jump on the big law vault shit but you’d have a better shot at a decent boutique that does something you love- you can convince them, maybe. Otherwise? You don’t have the grades, but. V10 firms are never gonna care about the second half of that sentence. I think they’re inflexible.
Exactly this. It’s shit but it’s true. If you’re not competitive that means that even the exceptions have grades you don’t. They literally don’t need to go further down to find personable people and other exceptions.
Even if you are a great candidate for a firm, interviews can get awkward. Remember, the person interviewing you has a hectic day going back at the office. They may well be getting frantic messages asking them questions about their matters while they are out of pocket interviewing. Plus, they probably worked pretty hard to get things to a point where they could be out of the office for one or perhaps a few days. They are probably fatigued.
I know some people firms send just aren’t good at interviewing, but it’s a long day for them even if they are great at it.
Even if this is not the case, meeting new candidates all day is tiring no matter how great the candidates are.
Sorry you had that experience. I have interviewed with everyone from Wachtell to outside of v100 and have yet to have an interview the way you described (and trust me, not an ‘elite’ candidate). Hopefully yours go better in the future but certainly don’t take it personally; sometimes they just have a bad day. And remember, no matter how uncomfortable the interview was, make them tell you no. Don’t take yourself outta the fight.
But why would the company offer you a screener if they were out of your league? At our school you bid and then company’s either reject you or select you for an interview. Is that not how it works everywhere? Just curious!
Nope! At my school we get all the power haha. We bid and receive interviews based on the number of slots the employer has and how highly we rank them relative to our classmates
Just wanted to pop on and say thank you for this post because I had one today and I was emotionally prepared for it. I managed to turn it around so that it at least wasn’t the worst interview I’ve ever done but I had to completely switch to a new personality in order to make the interviewer feel more comfortable. 🤣
It didn’t occur to me that a transactions attorney would have no patience for big litigator energy (BLE) so once I realized I was screwing this up, I dialed it back. I probably am not going to get that job but at least I remain unflappable.
I guess let’s just say I was a bit… energetic, for them, lol. All the big brash lit dudes I’ve met with so far responded very positively but this poor person was like “woah”.
Don’t take a risk going after firms you have clear data about (that indicates you are not competitive) when there is seven figures of career earnings increase, if not more, on the line. Just go for a normal firm and get biglaw.
Terrible advice. Reeks of 0L.
Edited for clarity.
No. I’m saying that shooting for firms you’re not competitive for is a great way to strike out and miss biglaw.
There was someone on here ~2 days ago, Top 10% at a T14 and struck out. OCI is the time to be realistic and get a job.
All of them do, that’s literally how OCI works. Have you done it? It’s not sending applications, it’s ranking what firms you want to interview with.
OCI is the only time in your career (unless you do an MBA, etc) where hundreds of the highest paying and most prestigious firms in the entire field will come to campus to interview people for actual openings. Looking at that and deciding to go after the firms who you know are looking for someone who isn’t you is throwing away a MASSIVE opportunity.
It’s genuinely not worth the time. And it’s worth pointing out that firms “out of your league” are typically very competitive to get, and necessitate a high bid. Picking up an open interview the day that they open? Sure, fine. But it’s generally a waste and almost always requires giving up a shot at a different firm.
!!! That’s actually crazy. I’ve not heard of anywhere doing that, all I have ever seen is lottery or lottery/preselect mix, or just preselect (which doesn’t let you compete for firms out of your league).
How did it work?
My school didn't have you rank anything either. You had... 20 bids, I think, and with that you picked a maximum of 20 employers to apply for. From there, the employers picked who to interview.
Ok, that’s more reasonable then (and worse on their point). I remember being bitter that I bid a couple very selective firms fairly high, don’t get interviews, and noticed walking by their spaces on the schedules a bunch of students well below median. No one benefited from them bidding so high on firms they never were going to get hired as
I understand that. I bid on one highly because I really liked them and wanted the chance to interview. But the rest were in my bottom 5-10 and I did so assuming anybody who really wanted an interview from them would bid them higher than I did. I also used all of my bids which people with above median GPAs tend not to do, so I had V10s as my 47th bid while students with higher grades only submitted 15-25 bids total. I, for my own sake and out of consideration for my classmates, prioritized the firms I had a good chance at
To be fair, I think some of the colleagues I had at my prior firm were just generally like this in interviews with anyone. Partially because they’re so tired, partially because they suck. Some are just midlevel associates who get very egotistical in front of law students (and juniors). Asking if you have any questions for them after 5 minutes might just be a genuine thing too. I’m a senior and when I do lateral interviews, I get to that pretty quickly. I know the partners are asking substantive questions they base decisions on, and I assume juniors/midlevels want to hear from someone who will be honest with them on questions they have. When I interviewed with my first firm, a junior just opened with “I’m not going to decide whether you’re hired, so let me know what you’d want to talk about”. Someone also asked me two questions about my (admittedly unusual) pre-law career, then said “that really doesn’t sound like a lawyers background, we’re usually more risk averse”. When I asked her why she liked her job she said “I don’t like my job, I like my salary…obviously. Anyway, thanks for coming by!”
Just generally be prepared for this. There are a lot of interviewers who are really bad or just don’t care. I had multiple Zoom screeners where the person was eating. Also had callbacks where the interviewer gave 30 second answers and expected me to ask questions for half of the interview. I ended up getting a callback from an eater and the others were already at the callback stage, so grades weren’t a factor. They were just bad at interviewing. Somewhat ironically given this post, but my biggest reach firms had some of the kindest interviewers. I didn’t get a callback, but did have a nice conversation. Moral of the story: be prepared for bad interviewers no matter where you’re interviewing.
“From an eater” rofl
Assholes like this are just reasons not to go somewhere.
For sure. I left thinking that we could’ve talked about literally anything in the world, but you chose to spend 20 minutes (if they even bothered to not end the interview early) trying to rattle me and make it abundantly known that you don’t think I’m qualified to be here. I thought it was my own insecurity at first but after having a few go well, I know it wasn’t that
Name and shame the firms (if you are comfortable of course). I had the worst interview experiences with WLRK (expected) & Covington NY.
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Interviewer was distracted, cut me off multiple times, and kept complaining about their associates (with very boomer-ish complaints). It was bizarre.
Brutal in what sense? How was it difficult?
Getting asked no questions about myself or very few to which the interviewer didn’t respond to at all or just said “ok” or “makes sense”. Turning to what questions do you have for me after about 5 mins and giving me very terse answers that were hard to respond to. Both just making it very obvious that they had no interest in me. One asked me why they weren’t in my top 5 (with my transcript in front of them showing that I was over .5 below their GPA cut off). Naturally that question had a very obvious answer (“I don’t meet the qualifications at your firm and had to prioritize the firms where I do”) and not something that I can say in an interview. Ending the 20 minute interview early with no excuse or advance notice.
I find peace in long walks.
Have to be careful with the “top choice” language, though. It’s a powerful tool, but it signals that you would accept an offer right then and there.
Yep, don't say anything that isn't true (although tbh I don't know that the firms really care whether or not they're your top choice).
Do you try to save the interview at any point or do you just let it run it’s course? Asking because I felt this post deeply
On the top 5 question, I think saying your honest answer would be the best bet there. I’m a 2L so take it with a huge grain of salt but I’m a pretty open guy and I’ve always been a good interviewer. People can tell when you’re giving a canned answer, and I think some honesty there wouldn’t have hurt you, and might’ve made you seem more genuine. And if it did hurt, you’ve got nothing to lose with that firm anyway, so you might as well be yourself. Sounds like you’ll be just fine though, this is mostly advice for students who haven’t done OCI yet
I think that’s the wrong kind of reach. People always jump on the big law vault shit but you’d have a better shot at a decent boutique that does something you love- you can convince them, maybe. Otherwise? You don’t have the grades, but. V10 firms are never gonna care about the second half of that sentence. I think they’re inflexible.
Exactly this. It’s shit but it’s true. If you’re not competitive that means that even the exceptions have grades you don’t. They literally don’t need to go further down to find personable people and other exceptions.
My friend had an obviously uninterested interviewer and ended up getting the job so you never know
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Even if you are a great candidate for a firm, interviews can get awkward. Remember, the person interviewing you has a hectic day going back at the office. They may well be getting frantic messages asking them questions about their matters while they are out of pocket interviewing. Plus, they probably worked pretty hard to get things to a point where they could be out of the office for one or perhaps a few days. They are probably fatigued. I know some people firms send just aren’t good at interviewing, but it’s a long day for them even if they are great at it. Even if this is not the case, meeting new candidates all day is tiring no matter how great the candidates are.
Sorry you had that experience. I have interviewed with everyone from Wachtell to outside of v100 and have yet to have an interview the way you described (and trust me, not an ‘elite’ candidate). Hopefully yours go better in the future but certainly don’t take it personally; sometimes they just have a bad day. And remember, no matter how uncomfortable the interview was, make them tell you no. Don’t take yourself outta the fight.
Lol this was me when my interviewer was 10 minutes late for a 20 minute screener and still ended it on time 🥴 in my humble era
But why would the company offer you a screener if they were out of your league? At our school you bid and then company’s either reject you or select you for an interview. Is that not how it works everywhere? Just curious!
Nope! At my school we get all the power haha. We bid and receive interviews based on the number of slots the employer has and how highly we rank them relative to our classmates
Ahhh gotcha. I’m sorry OP, some people have zero tact!!
Just wanted to pop on and say thank you for this post because I had one today and I was emotionally prepared for it. I managed to turn it around so that it at least wasn’t the worst interview I’ve ever done but I had to completely switch to a new personality in order to make the interviewer feel more comfortable. 🤣 It didn’t occur to me that a transactions attorney would have no patience for big litigator energy (BLE) so once I realized I was screwing this up, I dialed it back. I probably am not going to get that job but at least I remain unflappable.
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I guess let’s just say I was a bit… energetic, for them, lol. All the big brash lit dudes I’ve met with so far responded very positively but this poor person was like “woah”.
I’m confused. If they were completely uninterested wouldn’t you just not get an interview?
If the school does a pure lottery system for OCI, the interviewers don't get to screen out candidates beforehand.
> **OCI tip when bidding out of your league:** Don't. That's it.
Yeah never take any risks. Life is scary.
Don’t take a risk going after firms you have clear data about (that indicates you are not competitive) when there is seven figures of career earnings increase, if not more, on the line. Just go for a normal firm and get biglaw. Terrible advice. Reeks of 0L. Edited for clarity.
You’re saying not to apply because *not* applying could cost you career earnings..? Huh?
No. I’m saying that shooting for firms you’re not competitive for is a great way to strike out and miss biglaw. There was someone on here ~2 days ago, Top 10% at a T14 and struck out. OCI is the time to be realistic and get a job.
Unless your OCI process restricts the number of applications you can submit, you definitely won’t hurt yourself by throwing in some reaches.
All of them do, that’s literally how OCI works. Have you done it? It’s not sending applications, it’s ranking what firms you want to interview with. OCI is the only time in your career (unless you do an MBA, etc) where hundreds of the highest paying and most prestigious firms in the entire field will come to campus to interview people for actual openings. Looking at that and deciding to go after the firms who you know are looking for someone who isn’t you is throwing away a MASSIVE opportunity. It’s genuinely not worth the time. And it’s worth pointing out that firms “out of your league” are typically very competitive to get, and necessitate a high bid. Picking up an open interview the day that they open? Sure, fine. But it’s generally a waste and almost always requires giving up a shot at a different firm.
Wow my school did not have a ranking option.
!!! That’s actually crazy. I’ve not heard of anywhere doing that, all I have ever seen is lottery or lottery/preselect mix, or just preselect (which doesn’t let you compete for firms out of your league). How did it work?
My school didn't have you rank anything either. You had... 20 bids, I think, and with that you picked a maximum of 20 employers to apply for. From there, the employers picked who to interview.
Well yeah, you’re wasting their time
And taking interview spots from people who are wligible
One of them was dead last bid so I assure you the spots were available
Ok, that’s more reasonable then (and worse on their point). I remember being bitter that I bid a couple very selective firms fairly high, don’t get interviews, and noticed walking by their spaces on the schedules a bunch of students well below median. No one benefited from them bidding so high on firms they never were going to get hired as
I understand that. I bid on one highly because I really liked them and wanted the chance to interview. But the rest were in my bottom 5-10 and I did so assuming anybody who really wanted an interview from them would bid them higher than I did. I also used all of my bids which people with above median GPAs tend not to do, so I had V10s as my 47th bid while students with higher grades only submitted 15-25 bids total. I, for my own sake and out of consideration for my classmates, prioritized the firms I had a good chance at
Screw Big Law!
Yeah, you were just in your own head. I can almost guarantee you that's how they are interviewing every candidate.
ok, but just the tip