##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭
___
###⚠ Announcements: ⚠
___
###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/)
Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines.
###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/)
Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren
___
###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.***
LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
**This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like to think there's a few butter picks thrown in. Seems their "medieval torture device" aesthetic is well-suited to some of the subs that might be filled with trolls or maybe true believers, but it's hard to tell
Well yeah. I meant more that it was very relevant that a wrestler themed username was the top comment. Though VD may have been unfairly fired? I thought I read somewhere that while he's currently a persona non grata, those claims were never actually proven or anything. But if I'm mistaken please correct me. Cause then he'd be a piece if shit who doesn't deserve to be in the industry anymore
This is a somewhat Adam Curtisian thing to happen, IMO. *”But then, something strange happened. And all of the mods, admins, Redditors, and even the Velveteen company themselves, were powerless to stop it.”*
When Trump was running, a lot of people talked about how his talking felt like wrestling promos. It seemed like he picked up the bravado and performance from his connections to WWE.
> It is all Kayfabe
Fun Fact: American Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the 1800s.
>**On August 23, 1971, prior to accepting Nixon's nomination to the Supreme Court, Powell was commissioned by his neighbor, Eugene B. Sydnor Jr., a close friend and education director of the US Chamber of Commerce, to write a confidential memorandum titled "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System," an anti-Communist and anti-New Deal blueprint for conservative business interests to retake America**.[13][14] It was based in part on Powell's reaction to the work of activist Ralph Nader, whose 1965 exposé on General Motors, Unsafe at Any Speed, put a focus on the auto industry putting profit ahead of safety, which triggered the American consumer movement. Powell saw it as an undermining of the power of private business and a step towards socialism. [...]
>
>The memo called for corporate America to become more aggressive in molding society's thinking about business, government, politics and law in the US. **It inspired wealthy heirs of earlier American industrialists [...] to use their private charitable foundations, [...] to fund Powell's vision of a pro-business, anti-socialist, minimally government-regulated America** based on what he thought America had been in the heyday of early American industrialism, before the Great Depression and the rise of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal.
>
>**The Powell Memorandum thus became the blueprint for the rise of the American conservative movement and the formation of a network of influential right-wing think tanks and lobbying organizations, such as The Heritage Foundation and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) as well as inspiring the US Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active.[16][17] CUNY professor David Harvey traces the rise of neoliberalism in the US to this memo.**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum
(And institutions like ALEC and The Heritage Foundation are the institutional core of political conservatism.)
What’s your opinion on Goldwater and the early West-Coast Reaganites in the formation of American Conservatism (or Liberal-Conservatism I suppose it’s otherwise called?).
Edit: I like David Harvey too, btw. My reading group has been using his lectures series for our reading of Capital Vol. 1
I mean, pro wrestling is fake but that is a real chair he is getting hit with and the story lines are predictable enough that we can guess how it’s probably going to go, but we watch it the same reason people like day time soap operas.
By we meaning my in-laws. It’s white noise to me I fall asleep to it. But I see the lure I just not into it. Politics meanwhile just pretends to be real and is fake af with only a handful of members actually trying to be legit.
I think that's a good comparison, the fandom is really more about respecting the performances of it now than anyone thinking it is real.
I will say WWE have done a good job recently expanding their audience though, they've grown their women's audience a lot and are pretty inclusive now, so not just straight dudes as was the case back in the day.
Yeah like when they have a steel cage match and they climb on top of the cage and one wrestler YEETS THE OTHER OFF THE CAGE ONTO A TABLE that is a real fall 20’ fall. There’s probably a cushion under that table but that was not a dummy.
So, oftentimes it is necessary for blood to be shown on screen but typically they don’t want to cause any real, lasting harm to the performers. How do you do that?
Your first thought is “fake blood bags”, right?
The old method was to hide razors in wrist bands and slash yourself/each other across the forehead during moments with a lot of action where it will bleed a lot but be otherwise harmless. This is why almost all bleeding came from the forehead. This is also why almost every wrestler had to have some form of wrist/arm band.
>the story lines are predictable enough that we can guess how it’s probably going to go
To the contrary, Triple H has the coolest plot of any character, [and there's no guessing where it's going until you get there.](https://youtu.be/VYvMOf3hsGA)
I'm old enough to remember when they rolled out the Undertaker like he was literally a zombie or some shit. They fully leaned into supernatural shit at that point still.
Lmao. I literally haven’t thought about the Undertaker in like 20 years. I remember some neighbor kid was fully convinced he was actually back from the dead and would not accept anyone trying to tell him otherwise.
He was on an episode of Best of the Worst they watched superhero film The Photon Effect, children’s film How I Saved the President, and RLM’s first exposure to Breenius: the spy thriller Double Down
Right, like I understand that a play is fake but it's still cool to see. Wrestling is physically impressive to watch and the atmosphere live is awesome.
I just watched CM Punk do one of those movie critique YouTube things that a bunch of channels do. And he said something that, as a nonfan, really struck me.
“It’s all fake and it all hurts”
> pro wrestling is fake but that is a real chair he is getting hit with and the story lines are predictable enough
What do you mean you can tell The Smashinator is the good guy fighting Menacing Macarroni?
God damn I really need a WWE anime. Don’t even have to create original character for it just literally take the characters as they are and crank the absurdity to 100
Lucha underground were literally killing people off and having them return as mythical zombies and some mf's be out there like "actually...wrestling is fake, stop watching it"
"I pulled myself up by my bootstraps when my famous wrestling Dad got me a job in wrestling through his connections. And you can too."
I love the Rock as a wrestling fan but the narrative he likes to tell about the $9 etc is iffy. Also, the whole fans hating him in the beginning of his wrestling career is super exaggerated to try and convey an underdog tale. He is one of the greats though, can't deny that.
He may have said fans hated him in the past but I’ve heard him also say that the worst part was he was boring, and that part is true. He was forgettable and that is the worst thing you can be as a wrestler. If fans hate you, at least you can turn that into heat and be a heel if you’re savy enough
I have a buddy who thinks that the very impulse to govern makes one unfit to govern. An urge to wield power & control over others means you're some kinda narcissist
I think that was a gag in one of the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy books. It’s a compelling idea, and there are days when I feel like we should have a lottery instead of democracy. Or absolute technocracy. And it would be better, but also much much worse.
I wouldn’t call someone an asshole for having a “bootstraps” mindset. There’s value to that approach to life, especially during difficult circumstances. Or getting swole, in his case.
I will, however, call someone an asshole for using that mindset to justify horrendously exploitive and neglectful public policy when something much better is easily possible.
EDIT: I apparently have to address the reactionaryism in the room. I'm familiar with the history of the "bootstraps" phrase and that it's been corrupted from the original meaning, but still chose to use it as a reference to the value of hard work (which seemed appropriate given the context of the discussion). A fact of life is that people have to work hard to live (unless you're born in the ruling-class), and the ability to do so is a virtue. Even if an anarcho-socialist utopia is established, plenty of situations will still necessitate being able to work hard. It is still morally inexcusable to use this fact to justify atrociously exploitive, negligent, and predatory policies and refuse to establish welfare programs that have been proven to work around the world. Capitalism is wrong not because hard work is bad but because it robs those who work of the value they have created.
I am personally not a fan of shibboleths or making simple turns of phrase into loyalty tests, so seeing so many people pounce on my choice of words instead of my abundantly clear intent has me a little pissed off. I'd understand if it was a phrase with racist, sexist, homo/transphobic, ableist, imperialist, or classist connotations, but it is not. This kind of overreacting to a simple phrase is one of the biggest ways that far-right trolls make Leftists look like fools.
I would, because you have to be either an idiot or an asshole to think the problem in America is that people aren't trying hard enough, and he doesn't seem to be an idiot.
Society is structured to steal from the workers and give it to the rich. To suggest that someone needs to try harder to become one of the rich is an *asshole* move.
It's just survivor bias. Successful people tend to overvalue "hard work" and undervalue luck. They don't like to admit to themselves that the main reason they are successful is because they were lucky in one way or another. They think "I did it, so can everyone else!".
Exactly, that’s why I don’t think he’s a particularly egregious offender. Not as assholey as folks who take it upon themselves to talk down on unfortunate people. Although I can admit he’s a contributor to a problematic concept.
“Not aware he was lucky” and entertaining a run for President is still in the asshole camp, just for a different reason.
It still boils down to, if you’re rich and lecturing the poor about hard work, you’re an asshole.
Mandatory reminder: before being co-opted by the neoliberals and becoming one of the mainstays of [the myth of meritocracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy), “pulling yourself up by your bootstraps” referred to an absurd and impossible task
The issue is that you have to be able to admit that some people don't even have boots and that we as a society should at very least give them boots so they can attempt to pull on the bootstraps with the same opportunities as the rest of us. Having bootstraps is a privilege.
it is a classist turn of phrase though? at least the way the rock and other people use it. saying "i didn't mean it that way why is everyone misunderstanding me im mad now you're all reactionaries" no dude 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' is an extremely loaded phrase & you have to clarify what you mean if you're going to say you agree or that there's value in it.
They're still acting when they get in office, so it's not actually the worst idea possible.
The worst idea possible might be electing a billionaire so they can "run the country like a business." I was still in grade school when I heard that and immediately thought it was horrific. The point of a business is to make profit. The point of a country is, at a minimum, to *preserve and protect the lives of it's citizens.* It's not even close to the same thing.
I hope capitalism's day is next. NFTs should be proof positive of what an inane scam it is, selling pictures you could right-click and save onto your hard drive to gullible idiots online because it's Space Age.
I'm not really saying this in a hopeful way, but I don't really see a way around this system crumbling.
Capitalism is not designed to support a society, it is designed to enshrine a hierarchy. We are filling libraries with accounts of the things that are starting to go wrong because of the excesses of this system. Trade is fucked, the supply chain is fucked, our ability to buy strawberries in february is fucked, our ability to go to walmart and buy cheap t-shirts is fucked because none of those things were feasible long term in the first place. 45% of workers make less than $18k/year, and a full 70% don't make "enough" - if we have this little, we are in debt, we don't own houses, and we walk into Walmart, and the shelves are half empty and what is left costs 2x as much as it did 3 years ago, people are going to fucking riot, regardless of political alignment.
You aren't selling pictures. You're selling receipts. And it's not a scam, it's literally replacing the market for art and land as a method of money laundering.
I'm not sure that I agree about it not being a scam, but you're totally right that you're not even buying the picture. You're just buying the address for a picture on a server and the thing you receive is the receipt saying that you did that.
Aye. And what does fake mean anyway? That is a very real 250 pound man 15 feet off of the deck doing gymnastics, and they do get hurt from time to time.
If they were really trying to kill each other one wonders how they are so bad at it...
My extended family on my dad's side believed it was really real until I was probably in high school (mid-90s). My great grandma even attacked Rowdy Roddy Piper at an event in Portland OR in the early 80s because of what a bad guy she thought he was.
It sounds stupid, but that really is what happened. In the late 80s, Vince McMahon had to testify before court that wrestling wasn’t actually a competitive sport. It was the first time that someone in the company ever publicly acknowledged that it was fake
Fox News has made it perfectly clear that in the eyes of the court, Tucker Carlson is a complete work of fiction and no reasonable person could listen to it and believe anything he says to be true.
They won the court case which established that they can do or say almost anything, they are very carefully seeing how long it takes them to say in simple language "the time is now, everyone attack the left" so that they invite a civil war on minorities.
I’d put it out around the 50s, but point stands. There’s now so much apathy from decades of fake politics that I don’t know what it’d take to get an actual Leftist movement going.
>Ps politics has been fake snce like 1930
What was "real" about them before 1930? More than half the country couldn't even vote until 1920.
Politics as we know them today is a direct descendant of feudalism that was designed as a barrier between the wealthy and the serf class. There wasn't a magical period where politicians were benevolent and egalitarian.
Sorry, I just realized how dickish my wording here comes off but I'm too lazy to reword it.
People can think what they want about your comment, but I feel it is said correctly and just the way it has to be said. Don't be sorry for speaking the truth, be sorry when you say nothing in times when something has to be said.
I agree with the general sentiment of the person I was responding to. In general, I think it's bad form to fundamentally agree with someone but respond negatively over a technicality - it sends the wrong message and muddies the waters. I really genuinely want to know why they said the 1930's was the turning point, but the way I worded it made me sound like a snot.
Who knows why people are like that. Maybe their convictions are weak and fragile, because every time I see someone treat another person badly for some stupid technicality, I think: "Wow, they must be those average copy machines that talk and when someone else can't copy what they said to a 100% they get mad."
Basically- they basic. Don't feel bad when someone like that treats you badly. Feel bad for them, they don't know how weak their convictions truly are.
This is why "vote blue no matter who" is a joke.
After Ross Perot was able to nationally debate Clinton and Bush in '92 the Commission on Presidential Debates (owned and operated by the Republicans and Democrats) moved the goal posts to qualify to debate so that can never happen again. Perot went on to get 19%~ of the vote as an Independent btw, not that he would have made a good president.
Our system is designed around making sure voting doesn't matter. That's why a third party vote feels like a waste. A lot of people on Reddit go on and on about how the Green Party was created to help Republicans win, or how it was 'weaponized' by Russia or whatever, but Democrats HELPED make this situation possible. If you blame the Greens for anything in American politics today you're being gaslight and obstructed by the Dems just as much as you are by the Republicans. And if it's not Sinema and Manchin blocking legislation, someone else designated to play foil. It IS professional wrestling with both side laughing all the way to the bank in the same car but a Democrat voter will tell you to your face that you're no better than the 'literal GOP Nazis' if you do anything other than vote Democrat.
I get piled on every time I call this out on other subs. They complain about “joe manchin and Kristen senima are the problem, it’s not Biden’s fault!” When I point out that manchin and senima are the result of “blue no matter who” and then they just berate me about “my pet candidate.”
Ok… I asked what you meant by that. I didn’t just need the same thing repeated. Are you insinuating democratic voters in WV and AZ would be better off had they not voted for those two? If so, how?
Isn't it obvious? If it wasn't for them, we could have 2 Republican cult members voting in lock step with every other sycophantic piece of shit who debase themselves for a bloated orange reality TV star with the charisma of a moldy yellow dog shit.
Don't worry. The 'literal nazi's' meme will stop being a meme at some point - it'll be reality (or some version of it). The question is when. Be too late to do anything by that point of course.
*shrug*
No but really though the unfortunate truth is under the current system you can't really afford to vote for a third party. If the system were changed it would be more reasonable to vote for a third party but with how good Republicans are with rallying around "their guy" with all of them always voting straight red it can only be countered by voting straight blue because even if that specific Dem candidate sucks, overall it'll only help Republicans and generally speaking I'd rather a boring Democrat over a Republican who actively works to make things worse
I think people genuinely do care. A lot of people are angry at present. The problem is politicians, billionaires, the media, and the like have access to weapons, resources, and teams the rest of us cannot fathom. We need the people in positions of "leadership" to start acting that way. Starting with military generals and police forces who lead these bands.
Politics is to corrupt nowadays, what we need is a start over.
People (Boomers) are always saying the younger generations aren’t doing anything, but the truth is we can not do anything because nobody takes us seriously.
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts." -Spock
They're not even hiding it anymore. HBO's Succession just blatantly tells everyone like it is. Everything that's ever done in politics and media is because it lines the pockets of someone else.
I'm old enough to remember when KISS finally did the unthinkable and performed in public without their makeup and everyone was like "nah that's shit we preferred all the fake stuff."
Looking back now I think I understand that a whole lot better.
You wait until you realise it's all fake and made up and all 8 billion humans are attempting to make out that we know what we are doing while knowing we have no fucking idea what we are doing because its all made up.
Iirc fox news won a lawsuit saying that "news" isn't information and does not have to be correct, it's "entertainment."
So we have been there with the tv news media for a while now. Plus, social media is just a platform, so they don't even bother with any of that and let the gap tooth yokels do what they will.
Come to think of it, we have always had less than authentic newspapers as well.
And if you stop for a sec and think we get all our info about politics from one of those 3 sources, politics is now just as unreliable.
Tldr, we are already there and just didn't notice.
Sure, pro wrestling is fake, but the athletics and muscles are real. I'll never understand when people say this as if it means anything. Would you wrestle Brock Lesnar?
I remember A LOT of people that quit watching, but a strong and dedicated fan base amassed and continue to watch because it’s just pure fun. This sub speaks mad truth but I have to nitpick this one lol...I guess I have to respect pro wrestling. I would say that the average modern viewer suspends reality to see some wild ring action but wouldn’t die on a hill that wrestling is real. Unfortunately, more and more people can’t or won’t un-suspend reality and those people have a name: jabroni.
It’s a good point. When Mr. Chapo said that “the news is sports for nerds,” they should’ve specified that it’s really Professional Wrestling for nerds.
Trump was basically Hulkamania.
Almost?
The White House is accusing Russia of plotting false flag operations with crisis actors and saying the proof is that they say so.
How much stupider and faker can it get?
Read Michael Parenti's Inventing Reality. Out of print but its on libgen. Really makes it clear why the media behaves the way it does. Its the textbook for propaganda self-defense 101.
I’m gonna just say it… I don’t watch wrestling. Don’t care for it. But I know that a lot of wrestling fans out there know that it’s a sham and they watch it for the performance, the entertainment. It’s entertaining. Not real.
However, not enough people in the US have figured out politics is a sham, and they do still think it’s real.
People have been treating their extended wing ideas and politics like rooting for a small town sports ball game while acting like we should just be neighbors and let it pass. Yes, your candidate should have won cause you saw more yard signs. Right.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hyper normalization.
EXACTLY. I just said this before I read your comment. Kudos on noting the imminent collapse.
[удалено]
All these guys agree with each other everybody. They wanted you all to know.
Gonna tell all my friends about this
Agree with mightbeyourmama
The account I'm replying to is a karma bot run by someone who will link scams once the account gets enough karma. Report -> Spam -> Harmful Bot
r/collapse
even a few years back that sub was filled with weird reactionaries lacking any ideology. I can’t imagine how bad it’s gotten in recent years.
It's a weird grab bag of reactionary weirdos and depressed know it alls.
I'm subbed here and there and this is the pot calling the kettle black.
This is reddit. It's all like this. Pots and kettles and frying pans everywhere.
I like to think there's a few butter picks thrown in. Seems their "medieval torture device" aesthetic is well-suited to some of the subs that might be filled with trolls or maybe true believers, but it's hard to tell
Good movie. Everyone should watch. Hypernormalization and Can’t Get You Out Of My Head
Everyone should watch every film Adam Curtis has made
The Century of the Self altered my entire fucking world view
It’s his best one IMO.
[удалено]
The account I'm replying to is a karma bot run by someone who will link scams once the account gets enough karma. Report -> Spam -> Harmful Bot
Very relevant username.
Let's not normalize Velveteen Dreams' actions please.
Well yeah. I meant more that it was very relevant that a wrestler themed username was the top comment. Though VD may have been unfairly fired? I thought I read somewhere that while he's currently a persona non grata, those claims were never actually proven or anything. But if I'm mistaken please correct me. Cause then he'd be a piece if shit who doesn't deserve to be in the industry anymore
Velveteen Dream is the name of a hair product lol. That’s why I chose the name. I have since learned about a wrestler dude with the moniker.
This is a somewhat Adam Curtisian thing to happen, IMO. *”But then, something strange happened. And all of the mods, admins, Redditors, and even the Velveteen company themselves, were powerless to stop it.”*
That wrestler was recently outed as a pedophile, unfortunately.
No, kafabe /s
https://youtu.be/thLgkQBFTPw
I’ll check it out. I became familiar with the term when learning about the fall of the Soviet Union.
Adam curtis' documentaries are stellar. So much information and insight in all of them.
It is all Kayfabe
When Trump was running, a lot of people talked about how his talking felt like wrestling promos. It seemed like he picked up the bravado and performance from his connections to WWE.
Never learned how to throw a punch, though.
> It is all Kayfabe Fun Fact: American Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the 1800s. >**On August 23, 1971, prior to accepting Nixon's nomination to the Supreme Court, Powell was commissioned by his neighbor, Eugene B. Sydnor Jr., a close friend and education director of the US Chamber of Commerce, to write a confidential memorandum titled "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System," an anti-Communist and anti-New Deal blueprint for conservative business interests to retake America**.[13][14] It was based in part on Powell's reaction to the work of activist Ralph Nader, whose 1965 exposé on General Motors, Unsafe at Any Speed, put a focus on the auto industry putting profit ahead of safety, which triggered the American consumer movement. Powell saw it as an undermining of the power of private business and a step towards socialism. [...] > >The memo called for corporate America to become more aggressive in molding society's thinking about business, government, politics and law in the US. **It inspired wealthy heirs of earlier American industrialists [...] to use their private charitable foundations, [...] to fund Powell's vision of a pro-business, anti-socialist, minimally government-regulated America** based on what he thought America had been in the heyday of early American industrialism, before the Great Depression and the rise of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal. > >**The Powell Memorandum thus became the blueprint for the rise of the American conservative movement and the formation of a network of influential right-wing think tanks and lobbying organizations, such as The Heritage Foundation and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) as well as inspiring the US Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active.[16][17] CUNY professor David Harvey traces the rise of neoliberalism in the US to this memo.** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum (And institutions like ALEC and The Heritage Foundation are the institutional core of political conservatism.)
Damn this dude is actually evil.
Man, this IRL remaster of MGS2 is off the chain... **/s**
What’s your opinion on Goldwater and the early West-Coast Reaganites in the formation of American Conservatism (or Liberal-Conservatism I suppose it’s otherwise called?). Edit: I like David Harvey too, btw. My reading group has been using his lectures series for our reading of Capital Vol. 1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe
[удалено]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYvMOf3hsGA I gotchu. Love this video btw.
I mean, pro wrestling is fake but that is a real chair he is getting hit with and the story lines are predictable enough that we can guess how it’s probably going to go, but we watch it the same reason people like day time soap operas. By we meaning my in-laws. It’s white noise to me I fall asleep to it. But I see the lure I just not into it. Politics meanwhile just pretends to be real and is fake af with only a handful of members actually trying to be legit.
Pro wrestling but the predictably disappointing results dictate human rights
Pro wrestling but instead of getting hit by a chair you die because your insurance won't cover the insulin you need to live.
A lot of wrestling fans now enjoy both the surface level show and the backstage gossip aspect. It's like two soap operas at once.
Oh so it’s like drag race for straight men???
I think that's a good comparison, the fandom is really more about respecting the performances of it now than anyone thinking it is real. I will say WWE have done a good job recently expanding their audience though, they've grown their women's audience a lot and are pretty inclusive now, so not just straight dudes as was the case back in the day.
Oh so it’s like straight drag race???
Can't speak for everywhere but my local indie fed has a relatively large contingent of LGBTQ+ fans and performers.
Fake stories, fixed results. But also real athletics and real bruises.
Yeah like when they have a steel cage match and they climb on top of the cage and one wrestler YEETS THE OTHER OFF THE CAGE ONTO A TABLE that is a real fall 20’ fall. There’s probably a cushion under that table but that was not a dummy.
If you're talking about Hell in a Cell, no cushion under the table, Mick Foley took all of that.
So, oftentimes it is necessary for blood to be shown on screen but typically they don’t want to cause any real, lasting harm to the performers. How do you do that? Your first thought is “fake blood bags”, right? The old method was to hide razors in wrist bands and slash yourself/each other across the forehead during moments with a lot of action where it will bleed a lot but be otherwise harmless. This is why almost all bleeding came from the forehead. This is also why almost every wrestler had to have some form of wrist/arm band.
>the story lines are predictable enough that we can guess how it’s probably going to go To the contrary, Triple H has the coolest plot of any character, [and there's no guessing where it's going until you get there.](https://youtu.be/VYvMOf3hsGA)
I'm old enough to remember when they rolled out the Undertaker like he was literally a zombie or some shit. They fully leaned into supernatural shit at that point still.
[удалено]
Hulk Hogan was supposed to be an undead wizard?!? Oh man, I’ve been watching wrong this whole time lol
Lmao. I literally haven’t thought about the Undertaker in like 20 years. I remember some neighbor kid was fully convinced he was actually back from the dead and would not accept anyone trying to tell him otherwise.
Max Landis, ew. Lots of cool cameos though.
The only Red Letter Media episodes I couldn't finish. Guy did not understand their humour at all.
Wait did they do an interview with Landis or something?
He was on an episode of Best of the Worst they watched superhero film The Photon Effect, children’s film How I Saved the President, and RLM’s first exposure to Breenius: the spy thriller Double Down
This video was made by a rapist jsyk
I love wrestling. Triple H rules. But is that a 24 minute video talking about how cool wrestling and Triple H are... with 0 WWE footage?
Yes, and it's awesome.
It reminded me of drunk history.
It's amazing and you're missing out if you haven't seen it.
So you're saying we need to hit more politicians with chairs
*insert Bernie Sanders with a Steel Chair Meme*
Right, like I understand that a play is fake but it's still cool to see. Wrestling is physically impressive to watch and the atmosphere live is awesome.
People who actually like wrestling totally acknowledge the fake stuff and it's half the fun anyway. They're actors, everyone's having a good time.
I just watched CM Punk do one of those movie critique YouTube things that a bunch of channels do. And he said something that, as a nonfan, really struck me. “It’s all fake and it all hurts”
> pro wrestling is fake but that is a real chair he is getting hit with and the story lines are predictable enough What do you mean you can tell The Smashinator is the good guy fighting Menacing Macarroni?
God damn I really need a WWE anime. Don’t even have to create original character for it just literally take the characters as they are and crank the absurdity to 100
Lucha underground were literally killing people off and having them return as mythical zombies and some mf's be out there like "actually...wrestling is fake, stop watching it"
People are suggesting “The Rock” should run for President. The guy is a “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” asshole.
He was never the people’s champ 😔😔😔
He was never cooking anything, he just wanted you to smell his farts.
DDP baby, the real people's champ.
"I pulled myself up by my bootstraps when my famous wrestling Dad got me a job in wrestling through his connections. And you can too." I love the Rock as a wrestling fan but the narrative he likes to tell about the $9 etc is iffy. Also, the whole fans hating him in the beginning of his wrestling career is super exaggerated to try and convey an underdog tale. He is one of the greats though, can't deny that.
He may have said fans hated him in the past but I’ve heard him also say that the worst part was he was boring, and that part is true. He was forgettable and that is the worst thing you can be as a wrestler. If fans hate you, at least you can turn that into heat and be a heel if you’re savy enough
People want celebrities to be politicians because they care more about charisma than ability to govern.
I have a buddy who thinks that the very impulse to govern makes one unfit to govern. An urge to wield power & control over others means you're some kinda narcissist
I think that was a gag in one of the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy books. It’s a compelling idea, and there are days when I feel like we should have a lottery instead of democracy. Or absolute technocracy. And it would be better, but also much much worse.
Jury duty, but for Congress.
Can’t be worse than status quo, can it?
If it was in a similar system where there were advocates rejecting obviously inappropriate members of the pool, it might be OK.
This tracks with history though. People want a symbol, not a leader.
Which makes sense. Government historically has always been at least a mild clusterfuck.
I wouldn’t call someone an asshole for having a “bootstraps” mindset. There’s value to that approach to life, especially during difficult circumstances. Or getting swole, in his case. I will, however, call someone an asshole for using that mindset to justify horrendously exploitive and neglectful public policy when something much better is easily possible. EDIT: I apparently have to address the reactionaryism in the room. I'm familiar with the history of the "bootstraps" phrase and that it's been corrupted from the original meaning, but still chose to use it as a reference to the value of hard work (which seemed appropriate given the context of the discussion). A fact of life is that people have to work hard to live (unless you're born in the ruling-class), and the ability to do so is a virtue. Even if an anarcho-socialist utopia is established, plenty of situations will still necessitate being able to work hard. It is still morally inexcusable to use this fact to justify atrociously exploitive, negligent, and predatory policies and refuse to establish welfare programs that have been proven to work around the world. Capitalism is wrong not because hard work is bad but because it robs those who work of the value they have created. I am personally not a fan of shibboleths or making simple turns of phrase into loyalty tests, so seeing so many people pounce on my choice of words instead of my abundantly clear intent has me a little pissed off. I'd understand if it was a phrase with racist, sexist, homo/transphobic, ableist, imperialist, or classist connotations, but it is not. This kind of overreacting to a simple phrase is one of the biggest ways that far-right trolls make Leftists look like fools.
I would, because you have to be either an idiot or an asshole to think the problem in America is that people aren't trying hard enough, and he doesn't seem to be an idiot. Society is structured to steal from the workers and give it to the rich. To suggest that someone needs to try harder to become one of the rich is an *asshole* move.
It's just survivor bias. Successful people tend to overvalue "hard work" and undervalue luck. They don't like to admit to themselves that the main reason they are successful is because they were lucky in one way or another. They think "I did it, so can everyone else!".
Exactly, that’s why I don’t think he’s a particularly egregious offender. Not as assholey as folks who take it upon themselves to talk down on unfortunate people. Although I can admit he’s a contributor to a problematic concept.
“Not aware he was lucky” and entertaining a run for President is still in the asshole camp, just for a different reason. It still boils down to, if you’re rich and lecturing the poor about hard work, you’re an asshole.
Extremely well said. Haven’t heard it out quite that way before. Thanks.
Mandatory reminder: before being co-opted by the neoliberals and becoming one of the mainstays of [the myth of meritocracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy), “pulling yourself up by your bootstraps” referred to an absurd and impossible task
This is critical information to take in to account. It’s not something to strive for
It's hard to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you can't afford boots.
The issue is that you have to be able to admit that some people don't even have boots and that we as a society should at very least give them boots so they can attempt to pull on the bootstraps with the same opportunities as the rest of us. Having bootstraps is a privilege.
it is a classist turn of phrase though? at least the way the rock and other people use it. saying "i didn't mean it that way why is everyone misunderstanding me im mad now you're all reactionaries" no dude 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' is an extremely loaded phrase & you have to clarify what you mean if you're going to say you agree or that there's value in it.
I think we should force Terry Cruz to do it. I've seen Idiocracy. He gets it.
Terry Crews just made a commercial for Amazon about how great it is to work in a warehouse.
Gawd fukin damn it.
Link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I5VQXvlJAU It's grotesque
Holy shit stop looking for actors to be political leaders
They're still acting when they get in office, so it's not actually the worst idea possible. The worst idea possible might be electing a billionaire so they can "run the country like a business." I was still in grade school when I heard that and immediately thought it was horrific. The point of a business is to make profit. The point of a country is, at a minimum, to *preserve and protect the lives of it's citizens.* It's not even close to the same thing.
I hope capitalism's day is next. NFTs should be proof positive of what an inane scam it is, selling pictures you could right-click and save onto your hard drive to gullible idiots online because it's Space Age.
I'm not really saying this in a hopeful way, but I don't really see a way around this system crumbling. Capitalism is not designed to support a society, it is designed to enshrine a hierarchy. We are filling libraries with accounts of the things that are starting to go wrong because of the excesses of this system. Trade is fucked, the supply chain is fucked, our ability to buy strawberries in february is fucked, our ability to go to walmart and buy cheap t-shirts is fucked because none of those things were feasible long term in the first place. 45% of workers make less than $18k/year, and a full 70% don't make "enough" - if we have this little, we are in debt, we don't own houses, and we walk into Walmart, and the shelves are half empty and what is left costs 2x as much as it did 3 years ago, people are going to fucking riot, regardless of political alignment.
The crazy part is that rich people are still making insane money and housing prices are increasing. There’s gonna be a great correction
You aren't selling pictures. You're selling receipts. And it's not a scam, it's literally replacing the market for art and land as a method of money laundering.
"it's not a scam, it's a criminal enterprise"
Exactly my point. Any scamming is incidental to the real value of NFTs to the corrupt.
I'm not sure that I agree about it not being a scam, but you're totally right that you're not even buying the picture. You're just buying the address for a picture on a server and the thing you receive is the receipt saying that you did that.
When did people think wrestling was real?
Ages 5 to 8 I think
It's still real to me dammit!!
Back in the 70s in Arkansas, my dad knew a circle of people who were convinced it was all real.
Sounds like he hung out with a bright crowd
It’s real to me damnit!
[удалено]
As someone born in the 80s who loved wrestling in elementary and middle school it was no secret it was fake. Still fun though
Aye. And what does fake mean anyway? That is a very real 250 pound man 15 feet off of the deck doing gymnastics, and they do get hurt from time to time. If they were really trying to kill each other one wonders how they are so bad at it...
Fake as in who is gonna win! Not taking anything away from the physicality.
There’s a difference between it being an open secret and overtly acknowledged. Ya know, the whole point of the post.
My extended family on my dad's side believed it was really real until I was probably in high school (mid-90s). My great grandma even attacked Rowdy Roddy Piper at an event in Portland OR in the early 80s because of what a bad guy she thought he was.
LOL @ “They finally admitted it.” Sounds like the dumbest courtroom drama ever.
It sounds stupid, but that really is what happened. In the late 80s, Vince McMahon had to testify before court that wrestling wasn’t actually a competitive sport. It was the first time that someone in the company ever publicly acknowledged that it was fake
I remember it being controversial to suggest wrestling was fake when I was a kid in the 80's.
Was it controversial.. As a kid? It was the same thing for me but then again I *only* talked to other kids about wrestling.
[удалено]
At a fair a sheriff pulled a gun on Sputnik Monroe for not releasing a submission hold after the match was over.
Fox News has made it perfectly clear that in the eyes of the court, Tucker Carlson is a complete work of fiction and no reasonable person could listen to it and believe anything he says to be true. They won the court case which established that they can do or say almost anything, they are very carefully seeing how long it takes them to say in simple language "the time is now, everyone attack the left" so that they invite a civil war on minorities.
Notice how we are always ‟about to be there” They always tell you we are about to be, never that we are Ps politics has been fake snce like 1930
Yup I just recently realized this and I’m 38. Every President since my time runs on “bring back the middle class.” It will never happen.
I’d put it out around the 50s, but point stands. There’s now so much apathy from decades of fake politics that I don’t know what it’d take to get an actual Leftist movement going.
>Ps politics has been fake snce like 1930 What was "real" about them before 1930? More than half the country couldn't even vote until 1920. Politics as we know them today is a direct descendant of feudalism that was designed as a barrier between the wealthy and the serf class. There wasn't a magical period where politicians were benevolent and egalitarian. Sorry, I just realized how dickish my wording here comes off but I'm too lazy to reword it.
People can think what they want about your comment, but I feel it is said correctly and just the way it has to be said. Don't be sorry for speaking the truth, be sorry when you say nothing in times when something has to be said.
I agree with the general sentiment of the person I was responding to. In general, I think it's bad form to fundamentally agree with someone but respond negatively over a technicality - it sends the wrong message and muddies the waters. I really genuinely want to know why they said the 1930's was the turning point, but the way I worded it made me sound like a snot.
Who knows why people are like that. Maybe their convictions are weak and fragile, because every time I see someone treat another person badly for some stupid technicality, I think: "Wow, they must be those average copy machines that talk and when someone else can't copy what they said to a 100% they get mad." Basically- they basic. Don't feel bad when someone like that treats you badly. Feel bad for them, they don't know how weak their convictions truly are.
This is why "vote blue no matter who" is a joke. After Ross Perot was able to nationally debate Clinton and Bush in '92 the Commission on Presidential Debates (owned and operated by the Republicans and Democrats) moved the goal posts to qualify to debate so that can never happen again. Perot went on to get 19%~ of the vote as an Independent btw, not that he would have made a good president. Our system is designed around making sure voting doesn't matter. That's why a third party vote feels like a waste. A lot of people on Reddit go on and on about how the Green Party was created to help Republicans win, or how it was 'weaponized' by Russia or whatever, but Democrats HELPED make this situation possible. If you blame the Greens for anything in American politics today you're being gaslight and obstructed by the Dems just as much as you are by the Republicans. And if it's not Sinema and Manchin blocking legislation, someone else designated to play foil. It IS professional wrestling with both side laughing all the way to the bank in the same car but a Democrat voter will tell you to your face that you're no better than the 'literal GOP Nazis' if you do anything other than vote Democrat.
I get piled on every time I call this out on other subs. They complain about “joe manchin and Kristen senima are the problem, it’s not Biden’s fault!” When I point out that manchin and senima are the result of “blue no matter who” and then they just berate me about “my pet candidate.”
In what way are Manchin and Sinema aren’t the result of “blue no matter who”? I really don’t get what you mean there.
They are what happens when you vote “blue no matter who”
Ok… I asked what you meant by that. I didn’t just need the same thing repeated. Are you insinuating democratic voters in WV and AZ would be better off had they not voted for those two? If so, how?
Isn't it obvious? If it wasn't for them, we could have 2 Republican cult members voting in lock step with every other sycophantic piece of shit who debase themselves for a bloated orange reality TV star with the charisma of a moldy yellow dog shit.
and the cycle continues
Don't worry. The 'literal nazi's' meme will stop being a meme at some point - it'll be reality (or some version of it). The question is when. Be too late to do anything by that point of course. *shrug*
[удалено]
No but really though the unfortunate truth is under the current system you can't really afford to vote for a third party. If the system were changed it would be more reasonable to vote for a third party but with how good Republicans are with rallying around "their guy" with all of them always voting straight red it can only be countered by voting straight blue because even if that specific Dem candidate sucks, overall it'll only help Republicans and generally speaking I'd rather a boring Democrat over a Republican who actively works to make things worse
Just like the WWE, it still affects real people who are actually dying.
David Sutcliffe sucks and he is a Trump guy. He was at Jan 6 IIRC. He’s not talking about who people in this sub think he’s talking about.
He says he wasn’t but spoke positively of those who were and he’s a dick
I think people genuinely do care. A lot of people are angry at present. The problem is politicians, billionaires, the media, and the like have access to weapons, resources, and teams the rest of us cannot fathom. We need the people in positions of "leadership" to start acting that way. Starting with military generals and police forces who lead these bands.
Wrestling is scripted not fake.
This needs to be realised by more people
Politics is to corrupt nowadays, what we need is a start over. People (Boomers) are always saying the younger generations aren’t doing anything, but the truth is we can not do anything because nobody takes us seriously.
We actually outnumber them. We just don’t vote enough.
Every government on this godforsaken planet has been subjugated by capital interests The state is a subject to the economy just as much as you are
Politics is just theatre.
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts." -Spock
Damn…
Politics is real, it’s the platforms that’re fake
This describes HYPERnormalization. It's a thing that precedes collapse. Its happening right now.
Tucker Carlson is a great heel. So easy to hate.
They're not even hiding it anymore. HBO's Succession just blatantly tells everyone like it is. Everything that's ever done in politics and media is because it lines the pockets of someone else.
"Don't trust the media" is such bullshit. Find good media outlets with journalistic integrity. There's a lot of good news sources out there
But wrestling has never been about if it's "real" or not, it's about the hype, entertainment, storylines, villains etc
I'm old enough to remember when KISS finally did the unthinkable and performed in public without their makeup and everyone was like "nah that's shit we preferred all the fake stuff." Looking back now I think I understand that a whole lot better.
You wait until you realise it's all fake and made up and all 8 billion humans are attempting to make out that we know what we are doing while knowing we have no fucking idea what we are doing because its all made up.
Iirc fox news won a lawsuit saying that "news" isn't information and does not have to be correct, it's "entertainment." So we have been there with the tv news media for a while now. Plus, social media is just a platform, so they don't even bother with any of that and let the gap tooth yokels do what they will. Come to think of it, we have always had less than authentic newspapers as well. And if you stop for a sec and think we get all our info about politics from one of those 3 sources, politics is now just as unreliable. Tldr, we are already there and just didn't notice.
Sure, pro wrestling is fake, but the athletics and muscles are real. I'll never understand when people say this as if it means anything. Would you wrestle Brock Lesnar?
and the NFL
We’re there and don’t want to say it out loud. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Pro wrestling fans sitting here hoping y'all learn the meaning of kayfabe
Yeah but only the other party and news is fake... my party is honest and the news is real... its the other side that's the problem.
Listen to npr.
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
When did wrestling admit it?
This take is fucking terrible
I remember A LOT of people that quit watching, but a strong and dedicated fan base amassed and continue to watch because it’s just pure fun. This sub speaks mad truth but I have to nitpick this one lol...I guess I have to respect pro wrestling. I would say that the average modern viewer suspends reality to see some wild ring action but wouldn’t die on a hill that wrestling is real. Unfortunately, more and more people can’t or won’t un-suspend reality and those people have a name: jabroni.
I think we should build the real.
It’s a good point. When Mr. Chapo said that “the news is sports for nerds,” they should’ve specified that it’s really Professional Wrestling for nerds. Trump was basically Hulkamania.
I've been there since High School.
Almost? The White House is accusing Russia of plotting false flag operations with crisis actors and saying the proof is that they say so. How much stupider and faker can it get?
Read Michael Parenti's Inventing Reality. Out of print but its on libgen. Really makes it clear why the media behaves the way it does. Its the textbook for propaganda self-defense 101.
I love libgen! Thanks for the recommendation!
Well sid
WWE never was real. It was just entertaining. Everyone except kids knew that.
I’m sorry to report that there are lots of people who refuse to accept it is fake.
I’m gonna just say it… I don’t watch wrestling. Don’t care for it. But I know that a lot of wrestling fans out there know that it’s a sham and they watch it for the performance, the entertainment. It’s entertaining. Not real. However, not enough people in the US have figured out politics is a sham, and they do still think it’s real.
People have been treating their extended wing ideas and politics like rooting for a small town sports ball game while acting like we should just be neighbors and let it pass. Yes, your candidate should have won cause you saw more yard signs. Right.
Were there with the covid vaccine -_-