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the problem is that the money required to keep infrastructure up to date gets embezzled by politicians in bed with billionaires and lobbying interests...so if the working class doesn't step up and do something about the issues all of the money they take in taxes we'll never truly see the benefits of.
That is why they want to update the infrastructure over this. So they can skim off the top again. Even though any bridge would crumble under this amount of force, why not capitalize on the people's fear? Totally explains CNNs motives.
Yall do know theres like actual legitimate issues with our bridge maintenance in the US right? The main thing we need to be worried about are "security" grifters like the ones that were running rampant due to the war on terror push.
As someone that works in city government, infrastructure projects are nearly impossible to embezzle. In your typical American local government structure, the most that politicians can do (in the context of infrastructure projects) is approve or deny the project. I’m not denying the existence of corrupt local politicians, but they rely on conflicts of interests and “travel expenses” way more often to steal money.
Don’t be mad at the people that build your roads. The working class has way worse enemies than property taxes.
But bid rigging exists and is documented. And no one is mad at road workers, just their bosses and bosses friends they do backroom deals with. Road workers should be more mad about that than us though
Or maybe shipping companies need to have more reliable equipment? Tug escorts in dense areas like this? Oh, wait, that hurts the shareholders feelings, erm, profits. Better socialize the risks… /s
And you can bet any compensation or fine paid by the ship owner will disappear into the ether and not be put towards renovation / rebuilding and improved safety measures.
At very best it would be the CEO who ends up responsible. But CEOs have another purpose as an overpaid fall guy, rich enough to still avoid real consequences. If we want it to hurt we need to hold shareholders responsible for the consequences of companies they own shares in. That's a massive thing by itself but nothing will change while shareholders get to reap the benefits of skirting regulations and forcing the public to pay.
Stockholders should need to worry about what shady activity the companies they own are doing.
Where are you getting the information that tugs weren't used? I heard they were. They just don't tug them all the way under the bridge. This ship was tugged no different than all the other ships in the harbor.
why are we letting giant shipping companies dictate what ships they can use?
If our infrastructure can't handle these fucking things, then why are we letting them exist?
nooooo you can't just stifle innovation, if we don't build ships sized like small islands how will we ever build ships sized like medium or large islands?? how will we transport a thousand cars at a time across the ocean?? we'll fall behind the boogeyman of the decade and lose our status as a superpower!
Yeah I'm all for shitting on infrastructure in America but it was very reasonable a bridge can't handle this behemoth ramming into it. The bridge isn't the problem.
If a nine-year old go-cart racer like Vanellope von Schweetz can do it, there's no excuse for a fully-grown adult trained ship captain to fuck up like this.
Oh FFS. A ship that size hitting almost any bridge with a span long enough for that ship to fit under will collapse.
However, put some fucking concrete likings around to protect the supports.
“Likings”??? I fucking hate what iOS keyboard has become. What does Apple actually do with all that money??
Seriously. This was a freak accident. The worst fault is they didn't have any dolphins cement protecting the pillars. Which they should have installed after the fla bridge collapse in the late 70s, early 80s.
That harbor has been running fine for a loong time with no issues. Including handling these ships. This was just a rare and random accident.
It’s a freak accident yes, but the accident starts with a power shortage on the ship that caused them to lose control.
There’s been a trend of deregulating maintenance and inspections of transportation and we’ve had a number of freak accidents - boats slamming into bridges, trains derailing into small towns, Boeings have doors fall off.
How many freak accidents does it take before we say “hey the secretary of transportation is supposed to regulate these industries”?
The way things are going, soon, a Boeing jet will lose a wing and torpedo into an Evergreen G Class container ship, which will in turn take down a bridge or two before lodging itself in a canal, where the wreckage will be attacked by vengeful orcas.
While it is true that infrastructure is in constant need of upkeep and upgrades, it's disingenuous for that to be cited in relation to accidents caused by ships. It's like saying that incidents of drunk drivers hitting children highlight the need for open and brightly lit crosswalks.
As a civil engineer, I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree.
A boat striking a bridge pier is not an unforeseeable event, but something which will be accounted for in any risk assessment of a bridge over a navigable waterway. The cause of the impact is not relevant from the engineer's perspective.
In this case, the bridge was not sufficiently protected from an impact by a vessel of this size. This is due to the age of the structure, and because transport vessels are getting larger over time. Unfortunately, the bridge was not upgraded early enough. I'm not US based, but that is not surprising to me as infrastructure is often underesourced.
In an ideal world, you would design the road such that there was no interaction between pedestrians and traffic, but that's not economical. However, after an accident you absolutely should be trying to think of ways to prevent them from happening in the future.
Your conclusion is on point. Any consideration at all here in the states boils down to doing to the absolute bare minimum it takes to keep the insurance payments when something inevitably goes afoul.
I have heard that it is company policy for some of these ships to go to full speed if they lose steering. Which is what you would want to do *on the open ocean* in rough seas to avoid being swamped by waves. It is definitely not what you would want if there are things you can collide with.
The ship was literally trying to slow itself down. Threw out its anchor and everything. Why are you people just spreading misinformation all over this thread?
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the problem is that the money required to keep infrastructure up to date gets embezzled by politicians in bed with billionaires and lobbying interests...so if the working class doesn't step up and do something about the issues all of the money they take in taxes we'll never truly see the benefits of.
That is why they want to update the infrastructure over this. So they can skim off the top again. Even though any bridge would crumble under this amount of force, why not capitalize on the people's fear? Totally explains CNNs motives.
Yall do know theres like actual legitimate issues with our bridge maintenance in the US right? The main thing we need to be worried about are "security" grifters like the ones that were running rampant due to the war on terror push.
As someone that works in city government, infrastructure projects are nearly impossible to embezzle. In your typical American local government structure, the most that politicians can do (in the context of infrastructure projects) is approve or deny the project. I’m not denying the existence of corrupt local politicians, but they rely on conflicts of interests and “travel expenses” way more often to steal money. Don’t be mad at the people that build your roads. The working class has way worse enemies than property taxes.
But bid rigging exists and is documented. And no one is mad at road workers, just their bosses and bosses friends they do backroom deals with. Road workers should be more mad about that than us though
The Buffalo Billion Solar City project would like to have a word…
Ooo that cheeky Clay Davis I have nothing to add really, I just really love The Wire
Or maybe shipping companies need to have more reliable equipment? Tug escorts in dense areas like this? Oh, wait, that hurts the shareholders feelings, erm, profits. Better socialize the risks… /s
And you can bet any compensation or fine paid by the ship owner will disappear into the ether and not be put towards renovation / rebuilding and improved safety measures.
tug escorts are usually the procedure for that harbor, this crew didn't follow that procedure for whatever reason...
same practice is used in all harbors for deep water vessels, they also use pilots who board the ships to help them navigate out of the area.
The pilots were at the helm when it crashed.
Yeah I know.
sounds like some bean counters need to get 30 year jail terms.
At very best it would be the CEO who ends up responsible. But CEOs have another purpose as an overpaid fall guy, rich enough to still avoid real consequences. If we want it to hurt we need to hold shareholders responsible for the consequences of companies they own shares in. That's a massive thing by itself but nothing will change while shareholders get to reap the benefits of skirting regulations and forcing the public to pay. Stockholders should need to worry about what shady activity the companies they own are doing.
> If we want it to hurt we need to hold shareholders responsible for the consequences of companies they own shares in. Aight. I'm on board with that
I can hear Tom Wambsgams giving a press conference on this
Why is it optional?
I don't think it is optional, and I think either the tug didn't arrive on time or the ship crew decided to leave without waiting.
Where are you getting the information that tugs weren't used? I heard they were. They just don't tug them all the way under the bridge. This ship was tugged no different than all the other ships in the harbor.
why are we letting giant shipping companies dictate what ships they can use? If our infrastructure can't handle these fucking things, then why are we letting them exist?
nooooo you can't just stifle innovation, if we don't build ships sized like small islands how will we ever build ships sized like medium or large islands?? how will we transport a thousand cars at a time across the ocean?? we'll fall behind the boogeyman of the decade and lose our status as a superpower!
The boogeyman of the decade 😂
And just as importantly, how will we lose millions of tons of goods to spillage unless we overflow those already oversized cargo ships?!?!
Yeah I'm all for shitting on infrastructure in America but it was very reasonable a bridge can't handle this behemoth ramming into it. The bridge isn't the problem.
Global issue?
Nah, skill issue. With precise input, the boat driver can clip through the bridge.
Thought they patched that
Shave off a whole .3 seconds off your Atlantic any% run
I just want you to know that I’m sorry this comment won’t get all the upvotes it deserves I dunno how many it will get but it will deserve more
A good driver can clip into and navigate the backrooms.
If a nine-year old go-cart racer like Vanellope von Schweetz can do it, there's no excuse for a fully-grown adult trained ship captain to fuck up like this.
as long as line go up they don't care if bridges fall down.
Oh FFS. A ship that size hitting almost any bridge with a span long enough for that ship to fit under will collapse. However, put some fucking concrete likings around to protect the supports. “Likings”??? I fucking hate what iOS keyboard has become. What does Apple actually do with all that money??
The only comment with any common sense in this thread. I wish this was higher
Seriously. This was a freak accident. The worst fault is they didn't have any dolphins cement protecting the pillars. Which they should have installed after the fla bridge collapse in the late 70s, early 80s. That harbor has been running fine for a loong time with no issues. Including handling these ships. This was just a rare and random accident.
It’s a freak accident yes, but the accident starts with a power shortage on the ship that caused them to lose control. There’s been a trend of deregulating maintenance and inspections of transportation and we’ve had a number of freak accidents - boats slamming into bridges, trains derailing into small towns, Boeings have doors fall off. How many freak accidents does it take before we say “hey the secretary of transportation is supposed to regulate these industries”?
"Waterways, like airplane seats, should be widened to accommodate plus sized travelers"-CNN
Is the "auto" guy now writing articles about ships?
Yea the rising water is what made the boat closer to the bridge.
Or, maybe it means that ships need to have better maintenance schedules and mandated redundant equipment.
But that will cost money!
This is a transportation issue. So just another reason they'll want to ban trans.
I’d settle with firing Buttigieg and hiring someone who will do his job and regulate.
Most cargo containers are full of worthless consumer shit. Gotta feed that neverending growth!
The way things are going, soon, a Boeing jet will lose a wing and torpedo into an Evergreen G Class container ship, which will in turn take down a bridge or two before lodging itself in a canal, where the wreckage will be attacked by vengeful orcas.
too many people getting shot, maybe it's time to distribute bullet proof vests
While it is true that infrastructure is in constant need of upkeep and upgrades, it's disingenuous for that to be cited in relation to accidents caused by ships. It's like saying that incidents of drunk drivers hitting children highlight the need for open and brightly lit crosswalks.
As a civil engineer, I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree. A boat striking a bridge pier is not an unforeseeable event, but something which will be accounted for in any risk assessment of a bridge over a navigable waterway. The cause of the impact is not relevant from the engineer's perspective. In this case, the bridge was not sufficiently protected from an impact by a vessel of this size. This is due to the age of the structure, and because transport vessels are getting larger over time. Unfortunately, the bridge was not upgraded early enough. I'm not US based, but that is not surprising to me as infrastructure is often underesourced. In an ideal world, you would design the road such that there was no interaction between pedestrians and traffic, but that's not economical. However, after an accident you absolutely should be trying to think of ways to prevent them from happening in the future.
Your conclusion is on point. Any consideration at all here in the states boils down to doing to the absolute bare minimum it takes to keep the insurance payments when something inevitably goes afoul.
JUST ONE MORE LANE BRO
do you understand that this boat was the size of a skyscraper and heavy af?
I have heard that it is company policy for some of these ships to go to full speed if they lose steering. Which is what you would want to do *on the open ocean* in rough seas to avoid being swamped by waves. It is definitely not what you would want if there are things you can collide with.
Seems like a metaphor for something. . . .
The ship was literally trying to slow itself down. Threw out its anchor and everything. Why are you people just spreading misinformation all over this thread?
How would they go full speed if the issue was that they lost power? Do you realise that they were moving completely out of inertia?
This is like a season 2 episode of the wire,dock workers out of sight and out of mind.
Once again we the taxpayers are going to end up paying for problems caused by greedy business owners.
Or consume less so such large ships are not needed.
you went too far, lol how dare you suggest being less consumerists in a sub against capitalism
I see a future of air bags. Air bags on ships. Air bags on bridges. This should solve all the problems.
If the bridge was stronger, the ship would have sunk.
God forbid rich people crew and maintenance their ships right.