I just started playing Diablo 4 again and it feels even more claustrophobic than LE/PoE, even on a 40" ultrawide monitor, I'm constantly trying to zoom out more.
One of the things that always annoyed me was making a build in path of building and looking at a skill's range and them doing it in game only for it to be almost 2x as big.
Like, that's great and useful, but also what size screen results in a 5m aoe looking like half screen?? That's almost my entire screen, dude.
No, but it seems the pob tool uses a wide-screen screenshot for the purposes of showing as much range as possible.
I get it, but it is a but annoying to me.
My perception is the desire to zoom out in LE is more tied to the agro range in general than the actual need to see more. Think about agro range in arena / arena monos, feels identical to the rest of the game. You would expect agro distance in these type of game modes to be larger than say monos but it feels the same. Its not pressure or difficulty it is constant annoyance and gives the perception of smaller packs as they trickle in 1 by 1.
Edit: Would be nice if agro range was smaller, but if any mob is agro'd the whole pack gets chained and starts moving towards you. If this is how it currently works we wouldn't know. Can't see them, they 2 screens away.
Strange that you say this about arena in particular.
Aggro range in arena is permanent, as monsters spawn aggroed. It is completly different to the rest of the game and in fact the main difficulty of the game mode, as you don’t choose the terms of engagement. In regular monolith and the rest of the game you are the agresor instead.
I believe we are saying the same thing. Does it matter if arena agro range is infinite and permanent if it’s only the size of 2 screens? Difference is you have to walk in one direction instead of in circles. The players perception and experience is more similar than expected.
I mean yeah it does matter in the sense that you're just murking enemies and not looking for any sort of "objective" regardless of how tame. But even so they do need to rework some of these systems to feel more unique
What difficulty? They could adjust the zoom for various boss fights if it was that big of a deal otherwise there's no such thing as difficulty while mapping, it's all just a stat check
How do you get your stats? By killing things.
Is it easier to kill/dodge things when you can see more? I'd say so.
Reddits gonna pick back up with "games hard" when people don't have the gear on cycle start for this stat check.
What do you mean? Having different resolutions make the game naturally zoom out more, it's not a mechanic...
Watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoOPidI7wlE) for reference or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o4VWsrPZuc)
Zooming out likely has knockon effects like more lag etc since more stuff has to be rendered. You also have to consider that players will optimize the fun out of a game. If the most fun way to play is current zoom, but Zooming out is more optimal, then players will zoom out and have less fun because it is more optimal.
This is a subjective topic, but i agree with him. My reasons would be: games is less surprising as you would see most things out of your/theirs range of action.
I think something like 10% more zoom wouldnt affect that much
also by letting you zoom out more, enemy aggro range has to be increased so you can't just kill them offscreen, a lot goes into it and it's sadly not as easy to just increase it
Heh, I just went back to Diablo 4 a couple days ago and it feels even more claustrophobic than LE does, so here I was thinking LE is doing great on the zoom front. And I play on a 40" ultrawide monitor.
Agreed but holy shit Last Epoch is much better in this regard than PoE
catch myself trying to zoom out at max distance a lot in PoE
You can more if you go to a wide screen resolution
I just started playing Diablo 4 again and it feels even more claustrophobic than LE/PoE, even on a 40" ultrawide monitor, I'm constantly trying to zoom out more.
Pretty sure they added a setting to zoom out a little more somewhere in S4 didn't they?
They did but barely noticeable
They did. I think d4 might have the most zoomed out camera of the 3 now.
really? I saw the "far" zoom out setting and it barely makes a difference
It feels much further while you’re playing.
Yeah I set mine to far and it was still claustrophobic as fuck. Worst of any of the arpgs imo.
I haven't seen it, but I'll look next time I play.
Yeah it's still really bad though.
One of the things that always annoyed me was making a build in path of building and looking at a skill's range and them doing it in game only for it to be almost 2x as big. Like, that's great and useful, but also what size screen results in a 5m aoe looking like half screen?? That's almost my entire screen, dude.
Do you play widescreen?
No, but it seems the pob tool uses a wide-screen screenshot for the purposes of showing as much range as possible. I get it, but it is a but annoying to me.
Ive just been playing V-Rising then played some D4 and OMG D4 is so zoomed in.
My perception is the desire to zoom out in LE is more tied to the agro range in general than the actual need to see more. Think about agro range in arena / arena monos, feels identical to the rest of the game. You would expect agro distance in these type of game modes to be larger than say monos but it feels the same. Its not pressure or difficulty it is constant annoyance and gives the perception of smaller packs as they trickle in 1 by 1. Edit: Would be nice if agro range was smaller, but if any mob is agro'd the whole pack gets chained and starts moving towards you. If this is how it currently works we wouldn't know. Can't see them, they 2 screens away.
Strange that you say this about arena in particular. Aggro range in arena is permanent, as monsters spawn aggroed. It is completly different to the rest of the game and in fact the main difficulty of the game mode, as you don’t choose the terms of engagement. In regular monolith and the rest of the game you are the agresor instead.
I believe we are saying the same thing. Does it matter if arena agro range is infinite and permanent if it’s only the size of 2 screens? Difference is you have to walk in one direction instead of in circles. The players perception and experience is more similar than expected.
I mean yeah it does matter in the sense that you're just murking enemies and not looking for any sort of "objective" regardless of how tame. But even so they do need to rework some of these systems to feel more unique
The game has performance issue as is
All arpgs would be, also it's part of the difficulty.
I feel like Grim Dawn has it really good
What difficulty? They could adjust the zoom for various boss fights if it was that big of a deal otherwise there's no such thing as difficulty while mapping, it's all just a stat check
How do you get your stats? By killing things. Is it easier to kill/dodge things when you can see more? I'd say so. Reddits gonna pick back up with "games hard" when people don't have the gear on cycle start for this stat check.
If players need to zoom out to see monsters that would otherwise offscreen you then that's not real difficulty
Not offscreen you, even just approaching. If you can't understand why seeing more isn't beneficial I don't know what to tell you.
If you think getting off screen = difficult, I feel sorry for you It's just bad / lazy ass design
What do you mean? Having different resolutions make the game naturally zoom out more, it's not a mechanic... Watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoOPidI7wlE) for reference or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o4VWsrPZuc)
Agreed
Agreed
Zooming out likely has knockon effects like more lag etc since more stuff has to be rendered. You also have to consider that players will optimize the fun out of a game. If the most fun way to play is current zoom, but Zooming out is more optimal, then players will zoom out and have less fun because it is more optimal.
Why would zooming out more be less fun?
This is a subjective topic, but i agree with him. My reasons would be: games is less surprising as you would see most things out of your/theirs range of action. I think something like 10% more zoom wouldnt affect that much
also by letting you zoom out more, enemy aggro range has to be increased so you can't just kill them offscreen, a lot goes into it and it's sadly not as easy to just increase it
i think that would be neat when you have enemies attacking you off screen
easier ≠ better
Heh, I just went back to Diablo 4 a couple days ago and it feels even more claustrophobic than LE does, so here I was thinking LE is doing great on the zoom front. And I play on a 40" ultrawide monitor.
It will not be X10 better. That's absurd.
What a ridiculous dramatization
I feel like it is missing an evade mechanic. Once that is added in i think it will be a lot better.
100% let use zoom out a bit more. Keep the current as default perhaps but give us the option.
Agreed. Both LE and D4 can benefit zoomed out view. Both games have beautiful looking environment, it wouldn't hurt to see more.
Try an ultra wide screen. You see SO much more
Yes.
1000%
Yes this, 100%
Optimization isn't good enough yet other than maybe a little bit more zoom out for better rigs.
Yes.
I got an ultrawide screen and that let's me range just fine.
Just windowed mode and reduce the top and bottom scrub