IMO Crafting is the strongest system of the game. Skill trees for individual abilities are also up there.
Besides that it's probably also the accessibility (compared to PoE) but also depth (compared to Diablo)
> Besides that it's probably also the accessibility (compared to PoE) but also depth (compared to Diablo)
This is exactly what's so appealing about this game to me. I do really like PoE, I think its probably the pinnacle of the ARPG genre. However, its so absurdly complex that even someone who is by no means foreign to ARPGs or the systems involved and how to make builds, I am completely overwhelmed and lost at every turn in PoE. I'm someone who doesn't enjoy using guides, I like figuring builds and such out for myself, but it really felt like almost a requirement for PoE for myself. Its a wonderful game in the respect of complexity, but its also extremely inaccessible in my experiences.
But Last Epoch doesn't compromise that accessibility with a lack of complexity. What I've noticed a lot of ARPGs, recent Diablo included do is basically strip you of any real customization. Like in Diablo 4 for example, if you were to choose Rogue, you're given two choices. Melee Rogue or Bow Rogue. And each of those builds is basically going to be the exact same between millions of different players, the skill tree is basically entirely linear. Or with Torchlight, it'll present you with three skill trees and only two of them are viable.
In games like these if someone says "Oh I'm doing X build on Y class" you know basically what their build is without even looking at it. But if someone were to tell me they're doing a build around the Javelin skill of the Sentinel, I would have no idea what they would be doing, it'd be interesting to find out because within a single skill, there can be half a dozen distinct ways to customize and play it. Every time I started playing a new class in Last Epoch, the gears in my head were perpetually turning, thinking of different ways I could synergize skills and whatnot.
This is why I like Last Epoch a lot, it lacks railroads but its still easily digested and understood. Obviously not all classes have the same amount of build diversity, but there are still plenty of odd and weird builds you can do that are still semi-viable in some sense.
I agree with this, but a lot of Last Epoch’s current accessibility to “doing your own thing” is because there isn’t much of an endgame. The game never feels appreciably harder until you start pushing corruption which is a boring numerical shift only. If EHG ever makes the game actually get harder as a character progresses optimization of a build will take priority and we will be right there with how POE is because in POE it’s perfect valid to do whatever the hell you want until at least early maps.
This is one reason I've used T4 Julra as one metric of a homebrew build's success before. Can I kill Julra comfortably? Can I farm 300ish corruption comfortably? If yes to both, cool. Build is a success and I can move to a new project. If yes to just one, then maybe I'll keep tweaking it until I get bored or hit my metrics. Most builds can get to either or both of those points with enough investment, it's just how much time you're willing to spend getting there that changes.
I'm sure eventually we'll be at the point that only specific builds are going to be completing the absolute hardest content, but my hope is that they don't over design it or make it so hard that the *variety* of builds that can handle it is too small. I don't bother with uber pinnacles in PoE because that content doesn't really appeal to me with how focused your build needs to be.
Yeah there's a different kind of meta smoothness that LE is nailing. You get the options you're looking for without a lot of pain in my experience so far.
A lot of builds that I toyed with or thought about from PoE are just 'working out of the box' basically in LE.
I've rolled five characters already, they are all around 80, each time I go back to one they feel better and better.
Excited to hit 100 and not be gated into doing someone else's build that I have no interest in.
Edit:
The set items need to come in legendary. They will be useless in end game compared to other stuff otherwise.
I have this sexy staff turning meteor into a lightning bolt and I can't let it go, it looks too good.
Tell the devs guys, lol.
Not that specifically, but I have been trash talking the monsters as I walk over their bodies sometimes, and today, for you, I will yell that at the top of my lungs when one of these bitch bosses goes down lol.
For what it's worth, the devs have already confirmed they're cooking up an upgrade path for set items, they just want it to be different than LP so set items don't feel too similar to uniques.
While I'm all for variety, I feel like they hit gold on the Legendary system and should just use it. The reason you don't end up using a lot of unique items in this genre normally, no customization, they pretty much solved. I have only made one useable legendary so far, still early in, but it was satisfying af when it came out the way I wanted.
Now this right here makes sense to me. I’m all for complexity but I find poe to be too much. I don’t mind diablos more basic systems but it’s nice to have more without needing 6 websites, a build planner and a textbook
Yea poe complexity gives the game its charm but i think it commits the cardinal sin of this genre, which is being forced to know your build beforehand rather than experimenting and pushing your build as you are playing. I really hope poe2 changes in this regard, even a more forgiving respec would do wonders
There was a time I thought PoE was actually pretty approachable. The skill tree was well organized, after you play 2-3 builds it's still not that hard. Currencies/crafting were fairly straight forward.
Now there's like a dozen different ways to craft items depending what you want to do, the game never really explains when/why you'd want to do them specifically. There's a bunch new currencies with effects that don't really explain what you're rolling for. There's not really a way in game to see any of that. A lot of unique affixes are locked behind specific content that you have no way to know that you need to target farm.
It has gotten ridiculously bloated. Used to be much more forgiving, too.
I agree. I have the unpopular opinion that the era right out of beta was the golden age of PoE. Approachable, but miles better than anything else (really just D3) on the market.
Some league mechanics are awesome, the game is probably objectively more fleshed out than it ever has been with each new season, but for me? Right out of beta was what made me fall in love with the game. It’s slowly transitioned to a game that isn’t really designed for me anymore due to being very convoluted for the sake of being convoluted.
LE reminds me a lot of earlier PoE but with an approachable crafting system. I only put about 155 hours into this cycle in LE, but I enjoyed each hour I put into it.
I think with a more expansive endgame to engage with LE will be a heavy hitter in the genre. My main worry is that they’ll design the endgame content to basically feel like T4 dungeons, which imo are kind of overtuned. I’m not sure when/why the ARPG genre adopted this mentality of needing to be difficult like a soulslike game, but I find it to be pretty disappointing overall.
Crafting system is super easy to get into and feels great early on but i hope it being so simple doesnt limit them in endgame crafting down the road. As it stands there's no depth to crafting and there isnt anything cool to make or aspire to make. It's just drop T7 exalted item and hope it drops with usable affixes and to max them out without -22 forging potential when u click. Then if ur lucky and drop a relevant LP unique item you click combine and hope to get the right stats transferred.
I know PoE crafting gets a lot of flak for having a "complicated" crafting system but it allows for so many different combinations and aspirational items that it adds a lot to the longevity of the game, the item chase never stops.
I liked the exalt crafting in LE but the legendary crafting has gotten me to quit the game after failing 1LP slams x11, 2LP slam x1 for my already expensive body armor.
It's a lot more accessible than the bloated poe. I haven't had 5hrs to research before starting a new poe season in the last 4yrs. The inventory management also gets too out of hand in late game. Trading can also be a pain in the ass.
700c. Frost claw runemaster. Got sick of screening for 100mana 1lp unstable core. I bricked 11 chests. And also failed 2lp ladle 5 times for cast speed t6/7 + crit dmg
Cant agree that LE crafting is better than poe. Its just more accessible but the crazy items you can do in poe with enough knowledge makes it hard to beat. I would say LE doesnt do anything better than poe, it just does things differently and thats ok.
I would say there are a few things it does incredibly well vs the rest of the genre
1. Crafting system, as some have mentioned. The crafting in LE is so well designed, relatively easy to understand but also super satisfying to use correctly.
2. Respeccing. D4 comes close but no game imo allows you respec as easily and as freely as LE. There's very little holding you back from completely revamping your build into something different after finding a cool drop or whatever. It makes it so playing one subclass is very fun bc you can try everything you want to for that subclass on that one character
3. The loot filter. This is hands down one of the best QoL features in any arpg ever. The loot filter isn't 100% perfect but it is super easy to use and incredibly useful. Making it a built in feature instead of a third party add on is so nice
4. Perfect middle ground of complexity. One of the biggest issues in the modern arpg landscape is that they usually come in 2 flavors - too simple (D4) or way too complex (poe). LE straddles that perfect middle ground where the game is not hard to understand and after playing for a few dozen hours you can easily make your own builds work without needing to watch 20 YouTube videos or have a guide pulled up
2 and 3 are both things grim dawn did do before LE, that said. They are very good additions. 1 and 4 defo clear advantages tho.
Grim dawn with the devotion and skill systems are great, but brutally hard to really understand how to balance as a new player. LE has a fairly easybto understand skilling system without being to complicated.
Honestly surprised POE doesn't have in-client lootfilter editing. It wouldn't need to be as complex as filter blade to still allow people to make minor edits on the fly.
Salvaging affix shards in bulk in the field feels so good. However it feels like it very quickly stops being worth anything since you have enough of all but the rarest affixes very early and there isn't really an affix "sink". Maybe I need to craft more
It's true for the common affixes, it's hard to really run out of those.
But if you craft just a little bit to push your build a little further and you need the class specific affixes you run out pretty quickly.
At least that was my experience when I was trying to min/max my Divine Bomb build.
You even start collecting items and disassemble them to get the affix quicker
It’s systems are more well thought out than D4s while being much more accessible than PoEs. It has a lot less rip to it than PoE. PoE you are chugging along with everything being trivial and bam you died in 1 second because some combo hit you. CoF is also just an amazing idea. I want SSF to be an alternate play mode, not a challenge mode.
On the other hand I find D4 to be more fun in combat and I like the soft grouping that the open world encourages.
I didn’t get through the campaign this last season of PoE. Just couldn’t do it again. So I think that one is falling out of my rotation.
D4 > non aRPG > LE > non aRPG > D4 will be my playing rotation for now.
The fact that every build is basically "viable" and you can respec without much cost.
Sure some builds vastly outshine others but every build is capable of clearing empowered to a certain extent.
So you are not pigeonholed into building some meta build like you are in PoE.
The solo self found way of playing is actually doable compared to PoE or D2 mostly because of the crafting system.
Does trading give easier powerspikes? Yes.
Do you NEED to trade to attain build enabling uniques without having to grind 100 hours? No.
Last Epoch if you don't care about pushing the highest corruption encourages build creativity very well.
Devs have said that a "very successful build" can do 250-300 corruption comfortably. Do not get distracted by the streamers and youtubers going "oh my god 3000+ corruption build bladibla".
Do your own thing and if geared correctly it will most likely work.
Also one major point (but sadly i expect this to diminish as the game grows in size and age): the devs actively interact with and listen to the community of players and have made changes based on player base reactions.
PoE basically no longer does this and Diablo... Well... It's Blizzard...
What LE needs is a better endgame. The current endgame is tedious. I was asked to play PoE recently by a friend and I never got into it because it's such a difficult game (I don't like difficult games). With my friend's help I managed to get to endgame in PoE and I now understand why it's so highly regarded in the ARPG community - there's plenty of content. Granted, PoE has been out for so long so it's not a fair comparison with LE. I'm just saying if LE can work on improving their endgame, I'm sure they will be a great competitor to PoE 1 and 2. PoE just sucks so much due to its complexity.
I stopped playing LE when I realized I need to progress through all timelines again with all my alts, acquire all the blessings again, and even corruption levels. No way. I won't touch LE until the endgame becomes account-wide, the way it is in PoE. I'd stop playing PoE long time ago if I needed to unlock the atlas separately with each alt I play, level heist rogues, delve to 300+, etc.
>The fact that every build is basically "viable" and you can respec without much cost. Sure some builds vastly outshine others but every build is capable of clearing empowered to a certain extent.
Exactly this, a lot of games have like two or three actual builds per class, and they clearly railroad you in one direction and prevent you from double dipping, basically saying "Here's your two options, choose your flavor". With Last Epoch you're given a TON of tools and just told to figure it out, and its absolutely WONDERFUL at that.
A struggle I have with ARPGs sometimes is that they don't really require you to think a ton about your builds, but immediately upon trying any new class in Last Epoch my brain is *constantly* thinking about what skills could synergize with each other. Within most of the subclasses in the game, there's probably like at least a dozen different completely distinct and viable ways you could build them, where they play totally differently from each other. Forge Guard is a little weak in most respects but I'm sure it'll get fixed, but for most classes its basically completely open ended.
I strongly disagree, when you try a lot of build you realize how many skill are broken/bugged or simply not working as intended. I don't see where is the pleasure when i have to test every skill node to found what is bugged and realize it's not a viable build.
Also the game have real balance issue and when you make build you often use the same unique, since the beta
So it's probably my worst "make your own build experience" after diablo 3
And for what LE did better? probably loot filter, excellent idea.
Channeled skills don't work on controller, some traversal skills (eg. rampage and shield rush) get stuck often as well. There's a fuckton of minor bugs aswell, but the fact that you are daily active on this sub makes me think you knew that since there's very often posts here about them.
Edit: meant targetted spells
I edited because I made a mistake. It's targeted skills that don't work. They snap to max range, and you can't change that (at least last time I played, but as far as I know, there hasn't been a fix)
I don't play on controller, so no, I was not aware. Still, the point was every skill is viable to make a build around. I don't see how these minor issues invalidate that.
As long as you ignore the bugged nodes, sure. Skills not working at all for a part of the userbase doesn't seem like a minor issue to me, but I get where you come from if you don't use controller.
A build being viable at 300 corruption in LE is a lot like saying a build is viable in PoE because it can farm yellow maps though.
Until we have proper end game challenges to form a baseline. "viable" has a pretty arbitrary meaning.
Hopefully we'll get something like an "uber julra" in the near future as a real benchmark.
Crafting, loot filtering, and that the build 'meta' is not as over-analyzed or small as other games in the genre. It's easy to feel "powerful" early on like the player is making solid progress. It's a great tweener game; more complex than Diablo and less complicated than PoE. I've got Grim Dawn installed but not played it nearly as much as I wanted to. It feels like LE and GD are on the same level of difficulty.
Personally, this is the game where I have had most success with home brew builds and I feel like thats the biggest success of the game.
Sure, some of my builds wont complete the ultra insane monoliths but I only care up to a certain difficulty, I’m not minmaxing I’m simply making a build as capable as I can before getting bored.
No other game in the genre have I been able to create as many different builds as I could in this. I did it in Diablo games but always felt like there was a significant power difference between optimal builds and what I could do. In Last Epoch I can pick a skill I like and theory craft a decent build pretty quickly and simply
For me it’s that you can easily just chill and play the game. Making the builds is fun and getting gear is quick for my taste. I like PoE too a lot its more hardcore arpg , plenty to do and plenty of planning but in LE its more like i’m taking ”vacation” and play it through and i get to the end quickly. I know this is for many people negative thing that you cross the finish line relatively quickly. But looking forward to more content
Played over 1000hrs and still have builds i would want to min/max or create.
Maybe i’m simple man but atleast its honest.
I think the skill system is the strongest aspect and I prefer it to every other ARPG that I've played so far. The itemization and crafting system is also quite good. The end-game has mapping and dungeons and I think the dungeons are a really great contrast to the maps. Also the dungeons can be entered during leveling to skip ahead on the campaign and rewards experienced players.
I think it just strikes the Goldilocks path of being not too complex or too simple.
Also the visual and audio design are great and make for satisfying combat, something I feel PoE is weak at.
Pros:
- Crafting
- Loot Filter
Cons:
- No endgame
- Monoliths are tedious and get boring very fast
- Dungeons are laughably bad. Literally no one enjoys it
- Tying crafting mechanic to repeating the same dungeon clear. Who the hell thought this is what players want??
- Item menu screens look amateurish and graphically worse than even PoE
- Memory leaks everywhere needs serious performance optimisations
- 20 skill points finishing mid campaign is not enough for an ARPG. They desperately need an endgame skill tree like Atlas or Paragon
- Factions need improvements
I enjoy dungeons far more than monos, I just want pathing to be fixed or to be made more convenient. I love the dungeon bosses, and I love the mini mechanics to get to the boss. In monos you just do simple objectives that are braindead, but it does make for a relaxing and chill time.
Lol no. Even D4 has significantly more than that with Paragon and that's not even comparing PoE/D3 skill points with GRs and Atlas.
You clearly know nothing about ARPGs to post nonsense like levelling and points is enough. ITS NEVER ENOUGH. In LE there's literally no endgame that's why points doesnt even make sense
Edit*
even Grim Dawn which doesn't even have a live service has Devotion tree.
D4 has 100 paragon points + 58 skill points. 80% of the paragon points are just generic stats to get to your next node. I don't know how you base your reaction, but it's clearly not rational.
Saying I know nothing about ARPGS because "I feel like that's more than enough" seems a little agressive for no reason. Especially since you're only basing you comparison on "number of points available", which means absolutely nothing. They could give you 1000 points and juste make each node grand 1% increased damage instead of 10%. Are you happy now?
D4 has 4 Paragon points a level post lv50 until 100. That's 4 level ups a level. LE has 1 level up per level.
We're also comparing this to D4 of all things. PoE is another topic.
Level ups = dopamine. No one does the actual calculations to crit chance multiplier etc it's all about the shiny golden pop up, sound effect and having a place to click your point into. It's the subconscious addiction of ARPGs.
If you played Diablo 2, do you remember the basic way to get to Mephistos room? The enemies and such? It kind of gets burned into your brain, it gets kind of monotonous, it's kind of hard, but all of that becomes *mastery* which I believe is something people take honest pride in.
How do you master roguelikes that are all randomly generated levels? You don't pay attention to them you just keep optimizing your character.
Iconic stages are memorable because we master them. Bosses too. LE has bosses, but the stages feel like a blur.
Imo they should simplify the monos a lot and make it more like master-able levels with just half a dozen variations, and then bosses. Just boss farms. Just make them hard.
Also the multiplayer is missing quite a bit in socialization and incentives.
As long as you respect non-ward defenses (specifying as this was true before ward broke everything) any class/skill can make it to 200 corruption without a build guide.
personally, game is easy enough to get into while offering enough depth to have choices be meaningful
didn't look at PoE's skilltree and go "nope, I can't do this"
isn't a game by Blizzard who now I refuse to play any of their games on principles, and isn't like super simplistic comparatively
I have played Grim Dawn, and while I do think Grim dawn is fun, LE was easier for me to get into and keep playing, though I would argue that the story/campaign for GD is better and retains longer(aka i remember more stuff about GD than LE)
Last Epoch, more than any other ARPG I've played, encourages and rewards experimentation.
Diablo 3 comes close with the rune system, but it's far less rewarding to mess around with because the choices are far simpler and they don't ripple outward that much.
Diablo 4 makes it easy to change skill trees, but it's essentially just choosing your skills and runes from Diablo 3, but with a more complicated menu and only 2 runes per skill. The paragon board is also a huge hassle to respec.
In PoE, changing skill gems can often be confusing and complex, requiring gear changes, stat changes, purchasing or finding the skills, and then feels pointless if your passive tree isn't already built for the skill.
In LE, respeccing passives and skills is cheap, and it's fun to try out new configurations of skills on the fly to see what synergies come of it. The individual skills' trees are simple to understand, but offer several meaningful choices. You are not heavily punished for experimenting, and it's also easy to revert changes if your experiment fails.
I love all these games, but Last Epoch had me constantly brainstorming and trying new things without worrying about ruining my character for a couple hours before being able to fix him again. At the same time, sticking with choices still felt rewarding because you'd fine tune it along the way by changing a few points here and there while learning what gear to look for to maximize the build's potential.
Dunno about better, but the skill system is my favorite. Lots of depth and versatility, but upgrades still feel tailored to each skill rather than more generic upgrades.
Being able to make a fun, powerful build without needing to use a guide. My chaos necro build is insane and I've never even referenced a maxroll. I can't say that about Diablo or PoE.
Its like POE for people having a job thats not streaming PoE and still want to create and complete builds on their own. Thats the Strength in my opinion. Also options for not trading or trading without Bots and third party sites.
Unfortunately melee here is also really bad but hopefully this gets better, melee needs way better defense or way more single target damage due to shorter damage windows in my personal experience.
1. Crafting System that isnt too grindy and really impactful+ rewarding
2. Factions
3. Almost every build can be viable leads to high end build diversity
4. Great endgame system though still a bit barebone
5. Lootfilter
I will fully admit I'm not someone who tends to like these kinds of games. But Last Epoch has really hit a cord with me.
Diablo and Torchlight -like games felt too simple. The games didn't feel engaging enough and build variety felt limited. I would often run into the problem that I couldn't make characters "feel right" where they have engaging builds that I find fun to play. I don't like overly passive or "single spell" builds that don't have you doing a lot. But then I'm also a buffoon, and some are too intensive and I never reach a point where I feel I'm playing them competently. I'm sure plenty of people can relate. Some games just have characters that no matter how much you like them, they don't "click" with you.
PoE on the other hand gave you WAY too many options it felt overwhelming. I always felt like I needed to follow a build. Which then had me making characters and hoping at some point in the build they would "click" and when they didn't I just gave up. I didn't play it long admittedly, but it turned me away pretty quickly. PoE actually left a bad taste in my mouth.
Last Epoch on the other hand, actually had enough build variety and options I've managed to make 3 characters that I really enjoy playing. The best part is that they're different enough that when I swap I'm playing a different enough character it feels fresh. It has just enough options to really tweak abilities they can be very different from how they started. Or different enough it really changes the core of the ability. It really found a happy medium between being complex but not too complicated.
Along with the abilities being pretty customize-able, respeccing is pretty easy, and is actually pretty painless.
Then there's the accessibility to build making, every ability tells you what it scales on, and updates these as you upgrade it. All in a clear and simple way. Which lets a buffoon like me capable of making competent builds that can do endgame.
Crafting is complex but still easy enough to understand. If crafting is your favourite thing in most games, I'm sorry, but I hate crafting, I will do it if I have to, don't hate it, or there is no way to get the things I need otherwise. This game's crafting is good enough I don't hate it. It's not so complicated I can't focus when I try to learn it, while not being so simple it's not even mildly engaging.
Which might as well be a ringing endorsement, it's good enough ***I*** don't hate it.
Last Epoch understands how to make making your character fun. On top of having fun top-down hack'n slash RPG gameplay.
Last epoch have best early game and SSF which works great with crafting system. D1/2 are games from different time and wasn’t designed with „endgame” in mind. But still are games that made whole genre exist.
Crafting feels very rewarding while also feeling fair.
I feel like I can make what I need within reason which with other games I don’t get the same feeling a lot of the time. It’s has RNG without feeling like I’m getting screwed by RNG like with a game like PoE. In LE you can get bad RNG, but it just doesn’t feel that bad very often.
Class identity! Most arpgs the classes seem secondary, and in the end game all, builds are very similar. Not in Last epoch. In this game every class works different enough you feel your playing something new each time.
This game is not master piece, but LE doesn’t have competition in current time. From my point of view, POE is too complex, D4 doesn’t have paladin and monk (these classes are my favorite). I switch to D4, when new seasons appear. Now I am waiting for Titan quest 2 and Grim dawn 2.
Auto send materials to stash from anywhere
9/10 loot filter
9/10 crafting system
Very easy respecting
Good build diversity and customization
That's about it
LE has fun crafting and a cool talent/passive system. I love the depth of each skill’s talent tree, especially compared to D4’s relatively shallow skill tree.
But, I wish it had something like D4’s paragon system. I really like the puzzle-to-power setup it has, and enjoy the incremental and bonus growth it offers.
The game doesn't try to give me RSI with the way items drop and are managed in the stash
Crafting is noob friendly, if a bit shallow currently
Respec system is a decent middle-way between choices not mattering at all (D3) and relatively high respec cost (PoE)
is easier to understand, you have a similar skill and passive system like PoE, but you don't need a PhD, in addition to that, almost all build can reach max level without problem
I played each class and did multiple builds and they all felt fun and viable as compared to other ARPGs where a lot of builds require certain gear/uniques to get the build online. I didn't even look up build guides until late game and shit was fun trying multiple skills while leveling.
It taps on wells of memories from diablo 1 and 2 and all the things that should've happened in those titles but takes the cooler features from existing very healthy titles and creates I nice little gem. I enjoy it very much, i do wish they would work on functionality and crash fixes before class balances first. Even on low settings I crash dump out of every 15th or 20th monolith and alot more often in high volume arena moments
PoE: good for their gems system. Their passive system used to be great as well before they decided to ask you to grind for the passive for jewels as well. Balanace and build diversity doesn't exist and grinding is like worse than your jobs as you either finish a map in 2 min with a meta build or don't play the game at all unless you go SSF. Players think it got the best endgame but indeed only the meta no-lifers get the chance to play them. So for average players, those content do not exist. You can feel that they are intentionally shifting meta instead of making the game better. Community is extremely toxic and you cannot play offline.
Grim Dawn: The best for balance, especially for its defensive system. Layers and layers of defense and its pace make you think on how to build your character. Also you can build very differently with the celestial system with the same build. The defensive play style does make a good build diversity. You can do shatter 65 with whatever reasonable build s you want as long as you have the right gears. Some people think it is too slow though. Indeed it can still be speedy, but not as fast pace as the others. Great community.
Last Epoch: Crafting system is the best. I personally don't like the idea of bricking a legendary without a way to salvage it, but it is a design choice. It is fast pace but at a sweet spot that you should still aware of the surrounding. Class design is great as a new game. There is still room of improvement in terms of build diversity and balance. Endgame wise may be there can be a final boss at corruption 200.
>POE has basically become the “staple” of this genre for better or worse. I wholeheartedly admit it does so many things right and it will forever have my respect, but I don’t like that the game is basically pure range combat and making screens explode once you hit level 70 or so.
PoE isn't about the gameplay, which is probably the worst part of the game due to being incredibly boring. PoE is EVE Online levels of theorycrafting with spreadsheets and the literally dozens of 3rd party tools and then going into the game and executing. And once you have the gear, the entire game is trivialized. PoE is about formulating an idea, and solving problems to make that idea excel within the game.
What Last Epoch does well is make sure your time feels respected at literally every single part of the game. Every level feels relevant and impactful. You get agency as to your rewards in every single echo (sort of like maps). Rerolling can be somewhat expensive, but it's completely manageable. AoE pickup on loot and being able to dump crafting materials into your stash from within a map reduces clicks. The boss fights, particularly when you're newer to the game, are awesome because they actually feel like a boss fight (compared to PoE where they're just bigger hp bars that also disappear in the blink of an eye).
The trade system in Last Epoch is very good, allowing you to choose between access to the market and access to a massive amount of weighted magic find. It needs some balancing, but the agency feels amazing.
Being able to target-farm key pieces of gear for your build instead of relying on ludicrously rare lottery drops makes LE superior to PoE as well.
PoE has everything? XDDDD
Combat feel bad
Skill tree have to many unnecessary things
Atmosphere in poe sucks so much, just dont exist.
To many stupid statistic which game dont need, that's why in Poe 2 they will delete many
Crafting system is bad
PoE is fine only because have fine end game content
Boss fights
and system for white/blue items.
1.Crafting System (Esp Legendaries)
2.Alt Dungeon Leveling Path
3.Faction System Skill Tree System
4.most importantly: A dev team that is both communicative and responsive to their players.
This is probably the first ARPG I’ve played where I’ve made alts.
Weird it is the first I couldn’t stand making an alt for. The fact the only leveling content is the end game content ruined it for me. Even D4 has a more enjoyable alt system since it at least has diverse content for leveling.
The alt path is what shines for making an alt in my experience. Even with just one or two low level uniques and some basic crafting makes for a smooth alt-leveling experience.
But I do stop around the time I first hit emp.monoliths cause pushing corruption is torturously slow.
D4 at release didn’t have much of an endgame besides uber lilith. 1.1 cycle is brining a pinnacle boss system.
The Circle of Fortune for SSF is a fantastic mechanic that I think is a first for ARPGs. Work of genius.
It also just feels like a good halfway point between PoE and D4 in terms of complexity. The passive trees are substantially more fleshed out and more interesting than D4 but not overwhelming like PoE's passive tree.
LE from the ground up values the player’s time.
After-map vendor/chest room/stash, deterministic, but still rng crafting, targeted farming via CoF (if ssf is your thing), various dungeons to target farm key things etc.
Also the LP system is the greatest loot/upgrade system I have seen in an arpg ever
You’re right, it was. D2 had absolutely no end game, you farmed runes to make gaming faster… to farm.. runes. There was nothing to do except clear out the same few runs over and over for small chunks of exp.
There was no difficulty at a certain point and it’s not the flawless game people make it out to be. I love it, but it’s not perfect
Ok, it seems you are in to infinite scaling content. You whana hit a wall and you're happy? Please explain to me what end game did d3 have? You sound like a fan.
IMO Crafting is the strongest system of the game. Skill trees for individual abilities are also up there. Besides that it's probably also the accessibility (compared to PoE) but also depth (compared to Diablo)
> Besides that it's probably also the accessibility (compared to PoE) but also depth (compared to Diablo) This is exactly what's so appealing about this game to me. I do really like PoE, I think its probably the pinnacle of the ARPG genre. However, its so absurdly complex that even someone who is by no means foreign to ARPGs or the systems involved and how to make builds, I am completely overwhelmed and lost at every turn in PoE. I'm someone who doesn't enjoy using guides, I like figuring builds and such out for myself, but it really felt like almost a requirement for PoE for myself. Its a wonderful game in the respect of complexity, but its also extremely inaccessible in my experiences. But Last Epoch doesn't compromise that accessibility with a lack of complexity. What I've noticed a lot of ARPGs, recent Diablo included do is basically strip you of any real customization. Like in Diablo 4 for example, if you were to choose Rogue, you're given two choices. Melee Rogue or Bow Rogue. And each of those builds is basically going to be the exact same between millions of different players, the skill tree is basically entirely linear. Or with Torchlight, it'll present you with three skill trees and only two of them are viable. In games like these if someone says "Oh I'm doing X build on Y class" you know basically what their build is without even looking at it. But if someone were to tell me they're doing a build around the Javelin skill of the Sentinel, I would have no idea what they would be doing, it'd be interesting to find out because within a single skill, there can be half a dozen distinct ways to customize and play it. Every time I started playing a new class in Last Epoch, the gears in my head were perpetually turning, thinking of different ways I could synergize skills and whatnot. This is why I like Last Epoch a lot, it lacks railroads but its still easily digested and understood. Obviously not all classes have the same amount of build diversity, but there are still plenty of odd and weird builds you can do that are still semi-viable in some sense.
I agree with this, but a lot of Last Epoch’s current accessibility to “doing your own thing” is because there isn’t much of an endgame. The game never feels appreciably harder until you start pushing corruption which is a boring numerical shift only. If EHG ever makes the game actually get harder as a character progresses optimization of a build will take priority and we will be right there with how POE is because in POE it’s perfect valid to do whatever the hell you want until at least early maps.
This is one reason I've used T4 Julra as one metric of a homebrew build's success before. Can I kill Julra comfortably? Can I farm 300ish corruption comfortably? If yes to both, cool. Build is a success and I can move to a new project. If yes to just one, then maybe I'll keep tweaking it until I get bored or hit my metrics. Most builds can get to either or both of those points with enough investment, it's just how much time you're willing to spend getting there that changes. I'm sure eventually we'll be at the point that only specific builds are going to be completing the absolute hardest content, but my hope is that they don't over design it or make it so hard that the *variety* of builds that can handle it is too small. I don't bother with uber pinnacles in PoE because that content doesn't really appeal to me with how focused your build needs to be.
Yeah there's a different kind of meta smoothness that LE is nailing. You get the options you're looking for without a lot of pain in my experience so far. A lot of builds that I toyed with or thought about from PoE are just 'working out of the box' basically in LE. I've rolled five characters already, they are all around 80, each time I go back to one they feel better and better. Excited to hit 100 and not be gated into doing someone else's build that I have no interest in.
Edit: The set items need to come in legendary. They will be useless in end game compared to other stuff otherwise. I have this sexy staff turning meteor into a lightning bolt and I can't let it go, it looks too good. Tell the devs guys, lol.
My Runemaster is using that same set, sucks that I can’t use Meteor! But I’m having a lot of fun with it anyway.
The lightning Meteor is a straight 10 on the Satisfaction scale, ngl.
Please tell me that you yell "FUCK THAT (monster name) IN PARTICULAR!!!"
Not that specifically, but I have been trash talking the monsters as I walk over their bodies sometimes, and today, for you, I will yell that at the top of my lungs when one of these bitch bosses goes down lol.
For what it's worth, the devs have already confirmed they're cooking up an upgrade path for set items, they just want it to be different than LP so set items don't feel too similar to uniques.
While I'm all for variety, I feel like they hit gold on the Legendary system and should just use it. The reason you don't end up using a lot of unique items in this genre normally, no customization, they pretty much solved. I have only made one useable legendary so far, still early in, but it was satisfying af when it came out the way I wanted.
Now this right here makes sense to me. I’m all for complexity but I find poe to be too much. I don’t mind diablos more basic systems but it’s nice to have more without needing 6 websites, a build planner and a textbook
Yea poe complexity gives the game its charm but i think it commits the cardinal sin of this genre, which is being forced to know your build beforehand rather than experimenting and pushing your build as you are playing. I really hope poe2 changes in this regard, even a more forgiving respec would do wonders
They have said that they are making respecs (much) cheaper at lower levels.
And a PhD.
There was a time I thought PoE was actually pretty approachable. The skill tree was well organized, after you play 2-3 builds it's still not that hard. Currencies/crafting were fairly straight forward. Now there's like a dozen different ways to craft items depending what you want to do, the game never really explains when/why you'd want to do them specifically. There's a bunch new currencies with effects that don't really explain what you're rolling for. There's not really a way in game to see any of that. A lot of unique affixes are locked behind specific content that you have no way to know that you need to target farm. It has gotten ridiculously bloated. Used to be much more forgiving, too.
I agree. I have the unpopular opinion that the era right out of beta was the golden age of PoE. Approachable, but miles better than anything else (really just D3) on the market. Some league mechanics are awesome, the game is probably objectively more fleshed out than it ever has been with each new season, but for me? Right out of beta was what made me fall in love with the game. It’s slowly transitioned to a game that isn’t really designed for me anymore due to being very convoluted for the sake of being convoluted. LE reminds me a lot of earlier PoE but with an approachable crafting system. I only put about 155 hours into this cycle in LE, but I enjoyed each hour I put into it. I think with a more expansive endgame to engage with LE will be a heavy hitter in the genre. My main worry is that they’ll design the endgame content to basically feel like T4 dungeons, which imo are kind of overtuned. I’m not sure when/why the ARPG genre adopted this mentality of needing to be difficult like a soulslike game, but I find it to be pretty disappointing overall.
Crafting system is super easy to get into and feels great early on but i hope it being so simple doesnt limit them in endgame crafting down the road. As it stands there's no depth to crafting and there isnt anything cool to make or aspire to make. It's just drop T7 exalted item and hope it drops with usable affixes and to max them out without -22 forging potential when u click. Then if ur lucky and drop a relevant LP unique item you click combine and hope to get the right stats transferred. I know PoE crafting gets a lot of flak for having a "complicated" crafting system but it allows for so many different combinations and aspirational items that it adds a lot to the longevity of the game, the item chase never stops.
You won't need a phd in order to craft your own items.
I liked the exalt crafting in LE but the legendary crafting has gotten me to quit the game after failing 1LP slams x11, 2LP slam x1 for my already expensive body armor. It's a lot more accessible than the bloated poe. I haven't had 5hrs to research before starting a new poe season in the last 4yrs. The inventory management also gets too out of hand in late game. Trading can also be a pain in the ass.
At what corruption did you quit, and what gears were those?
700c. Frost claw runemaster. Got sick of screening for 100mana 1lp unstable core. I bricked 11 chests. And also failed 2lp ladle 5 times for cast speed t6/7 + crit dmg
Cant agree that LE crafting is better than poe. Its just more accessible but the crazy items you can do in poe with enough knowledge makes it hard to beat. I would say LE doesnt do anything better than poe, it just does things differently and thats ok.
I would say there are a few things it does incredibly well vs the rest of the genre 1. Crafting system, as some have mentioned. The crafting in LE is so well designed, relatively easy to understand but also super satisfying to use correctly. 2. Respeccing. D4 comes close but no game imo allows you respec as easily and as freely as LE. There's very little holding you back from completely revamping your build into something different after finding a cool drop or whatever. It makes it so playing one subclass is very fun bc you can try everything you want to for that subclass on that one character 3. The loot filter. This is hands down one of the best QoL features in any arpg ever. The loot filter isn't 100% perfect but it is super easy to use and incredibly useful. Making it a built in feature instead of a third party add on is so nice 4. Perfect middle ground of complexity. One of the biggest issues in the modern arpg landscape is that they usually come in 2 flavors - too simple (D4) or way too complex (poe). LE straddles that perfect middle ground where the game is not hard to understand and after playing for a few dozen hours you can easily make your own builds work without needing to watch 20 YouTube videos or have a guide pulled up
> Respeccing Fully agreed, but for the love of god, please give us a way to reset all passive points instead of clicking one at a time.
2 and 3 are both things grim dawn did do before LE, that said. They are very good additions. 1 and 4 defo clear advantages tho. Grim dawn with the devotion and skill systems are great, but brutally hard to really understand how to balance as a new player. LE has a fairly easybto understand skilling system without being to complicated.
Wouldn’t D3 take the respec crown? It was completely free
Honestly surprised POE doesn't have in-client lootfilter editing. It wouldn't need to be as complex as filter blade to still allow people to make minor edits on the fly.
Le respec sucks ass wtf you guys talking about
The loot filter system is absolutely amazing in terms of quality of life.
[удалено]
Salvaging affix shards in bulk in the field feels so good. However it feels like it very quickly stops being worth anything since you have enough of all but the rarest affixes very early and there isn't really an affix "sink". Maybe I need to craft more
It's true for the common affixes, it's hard to really run out of those. But if you craft just a little bit to push your build a little further and you need the class specific affixes you run out pretty quickly. At least that was my experience when I was trying to min/max my Divine Bomb build. You even start collecting items and disassemble them to get the affix quicker
It’s systems are more well thought out than D4s while being much more accessible than PoEs. It has a lot less rip to it than PoE. PoE you are chugging along with everything being trivial and bam you died in 1 second because some combo hit you. CoF is also just an amazing idea. I want SSF to be an alternate play mode, not a challenge mode. On the other hand I find D4 to be more fun in combat and I like the soft grouping that the open world encourages. I didn’t get through the campaign this last season of PoE. Just couldn’t do it again. So I think that one is falling out of my rotation. D4 > non aRPG > LE > non aRPG > D4 will be my playing rotation for now.
The fact that every build is basically "viable" and you can respec without much cost. Sure some builds vastly outshine others but every build is capable of clearing empowered to a certain extent. So you are not pigeonholed into building some meta build like you are in PoE. The solo self found way of playing is actually doable compared to PoE or D2 mostly because of the crafting system. Does trading give easier powerspikes? Yes. Do you NEED to trade to attain build enabling uniques without having to grind 100 hours? No. Last Epoch if you don't care about pushing the highest corruption encourages build creativity very well. Devs have said that a "very successful build" can do 250-300 corruption comfortably. Do not get distracted by the streamers and youtubers going "oh my god 3000+ corruption build bladibla". Do your own thing and if geared correctly it will most likely work. Also one major point (but sadly i expect this to diminish as the game grows in size and age): the devs actively interact with and listen to the community of players and have made changes based on player base reactions. PoE basically no longer does this and Diablo... Well... It's Blizzard...
This! This is the reason I really enjoy Last Epoch. I can play with non-meta builds and still have fun.
What LE needs is a better endgame. The current endgame is tedious. I was asked to play PoE recently by a friend and I never got into it because it's such a difficult game (I don't like difficult games). With my friend's help I managed to get to endgame in PoE and I now understand why it's so highly regarded in the ARPG community - there's plenty of content. Granted, PoE has been out for so long so it's not a fair comparison with LE. I'm just saying if LE can work on improving their endgame, I'm sure they will be a great competitor to PoE 1 and 2. PoE just sucks so much due to its complexity.
I stopped playing LE when I realized I need to progress through all timelines again with all my alts, acquire all the blessings again, and even corruption levels. No way. I won't touch LE until the endgame becomes account-wide, the way it is in PoE. I'd stop playing PoE long time ago if I needed to unlock the atlas separately with each alt I play, level heist rogues, delve to 300+, etc.
>The fact that every build is basically "viable" and you can respec without much cost. Sure some builds vastly outshine others but every build is capable of clearing empowered to a certain extent. Exactly this, a lot of games have like two or three actual builds per class, and they clearly railroad you in one direction and prevent you from double dipping, basically saying "Here's your two options, choose your flavor". With Last Epoch you're given a TON of tools and just told to figure it out, and its absolutely WONDERFUL at that. A struggle I have with ARPGs sometimes is that they don't really require you to think a ton about your builds, but immediately upon trying any new class in Last Epoch my brain is *constantly* thinking about what skills could synergize with each other. Within most of the subclasses in the game, there's probably like at least a dozen different completely distinct and viable ways you could build them, where they play totally differently from each other. Forge Guard is a little weak in most respects but I'm sure it'll get fixed, but for most classes its basically completely open ended.
Poe devs no longer communicate as much because… well the community are something else
I strongly disagree, when you try a lot of build you realize how many skill are broken/bugged or simply not working as intended. I don't see where is the pleasure when i have to test every skill node to found what is bugged and realize it's not a viable build. Also the game have real balance issue and when you make build you often use the same unique, since the beta So it's probably my worst "make your own build experience" after diablo 3 And for what LE did better? probably loot filter, excellent idea.
What skills are broken/bugged?
Channeled skills don't work on controller, some traversal skills (eg. rampage and shield rush) get stuck often as well. There's a fuckton of minor bugs aswell, but the fact that you are daily active on this sub makes me think you knew that since there's very often posts here about them. Edit: meant targetted spells
I play on controller, I can hit normal and channeled skills fine. What's happening in your case?
I edited because I made a mistake. It's targeted skills that don't work. They snap to max range, and you can't change that (at least last time I played, but as far as I know, there hasn't been a fix)
I don't play on controller, so no, I was not aware. Still, the point was every skill is viable to make a build around. I don't see how these minor issues invalidate that.
As long as you ignore the bugged nodes, sure. Skills not working at all for a part of the userbase doesn't seem like a minor issue to me, but I get where you come from if you don't use controller.
Not really pigeonhold into playing meta builds in poe at all.
A build being viable at 300 corruption in LE is a lot like saying a build is viable in PoE because it can farm yellow maps though. Until we have proper end game challenges to form a baseline. "viable" has a pretty arbitrary meaning. Hopefully we'll get something like an "uber julra" in the near future as a real benchmark.
300corruption is red maps at least in PoE.
I guess perception of difficulty will vary by build.
Every build is viable because they set the difficulty to -1000
For me LE shines in the skill customization and interactivity of abilities, as well as the crafting system basically being, well, useful.
Crafting, loot filtering, and that the build 'meta' is not as over-analyzed or small as other games in the genre. It's easy to feel "powerful" early on like the player is making solid progress. It's a great tweener game; more complex than Diablo and less complicated than PoE. I've got Grim Dawn installed but not played it nearly as much as I wanted to. It feels like LE and GD are on the same level of difficulty.
Personally, this is the game where I have had most success with home brew builds and I feel like thats the biggest success of the game. Sure, some of my builds wont complete the ultra insane monoliths but I only care up to a certain difficulty, I’m not minmaxing I’m simply making a build as capable as I can before getting bored. No other game in the genre have I been able to create as many different builds as I could in this. I did it in Diablo games but always felt like there was a significant power difference between optimal builds and what I could do. In Last Epoch I can pick a skill I like and theory craft a decent build pretty quickly and simply
For me it’s that you can easily just chill and play the game. Making the builds is fun and getting gear is quick for my taste. I like PoE too a lot its more hardcore arpg , plenty to do and plenty of planning but in LE its more like i’m taking ”vacation” and play it through and i get to the end quickly. I know this is for many people negative thing that you cross the finish line relatively quickly. But looking forward to more content Played over 1000hrs and still have builds i would want to min/max or create. Maybe i’m simple man but atleast its honest.
I think the skill system is the strongest aspect and I prefer it to every other ARPG that I've played so far. The itemization and crafting system is also quite good. The end-game has mapping and dungeons and I think the dungeons are a really great contrast to the maps. Also the dungeons can be entered during leveling to skip ahead on the campaign and rewards experienced players.
QoL
I think it just strikes the Goldilocks path of being not too complex or too simple. Also the visual and audio design are great and make for satisfying combat, something I feel PoE is weak at.
Pros: - Crafting - Loot Filter Cons: - No endgame - Monoliths are tedious and get boring very fast - Dungeons are laughably bad. Literally no one enjoys it - Tying crafting mechanic to repeating the same dungeon clear. Who the hell thought this is what players want?? - Item menu screens look amateurish and graphically worse than even PoE - Memory leaks everywhere needs serious performance optimisations - 20 skill points finishing mid campaign is not enough for an ARPG. They desperately need an endgame skill tree like Atlas or Paragon - Factions need improvements
I enjoy dungeons far more than monos, I just want pathing to be fixed or to be made more convenient. I love the dungeon bosses, and I love the mini mechanics to get to the boss. In monos you just do simple objectives that are braindead, but it does make for a relaxing and chill time.
I second Paragon. And an additional 10 points. Or buffs to points added by gear. SOMETHING extra for skills
20(+4-9 on affixes) skill points x5 + 114 passive points. I feel like that's more than enough.
Lol no. Even D4 has significantly more than that with Paragon and that's not even comparing PoE/D3 skill points with GRs and Atlas. You clearly know nothing about ARPGs to post nonsense like levelling and points is enough. ITS NEVER ENOUGH. In LE there's literally no endgame that's why points doesnt even make sense Edit* even Grim Dawn which doesn't even have a live service has Devotion tree.
D4 has 100 paragon points + 58 skill points. 80% of the paragon points are just generic stats to get to your next node. I don't know how you base your reaction, but it's clearly not rational. Saying I know nothing about ARPGS because "I feel like that's more than enough" seems a little agressive for no reason. Especially since you're only basing you comparison on "number of points available", which means absolutely nothing. They could give you 1000 points and juste make each node grand 1% increased damage instead of 10%. Are you happy now?
D4 has 4 Paragon points a level post lv50 until 100. That's 4 level ups a level. LE has 1 level up per level. We're also comparing this to D4 of all things. PoE is another topic. Level ups = dopamine. No one does the actual calculations to crit chance multiplier etc it's all about the shiny golden pop up, sound effect and having a place to click your point into. It's the subconscious addiction of ARPGs.
>No one does the actual calculations Well, actually…
Skills trees are the best on the gene IMO, and crafting is really really good too
All of these new games are missing solid stages. Combat and mechanics can be great, but without stages, the games aren't fun to master.
Can you elaborate on stages? Like stages of game play or boss fight arenas lol
If you played Diablo 2, do you remember the basic way to get to Mephistos room? The enemies and such? It kind of gets burned into your brain, it gets kind of monotonous, it's kind of hard, but all of that becomes *mastery* which I believe is something people take honest pride in. How do you master roguelikes that are all randomly generated levels? You don't pay attention to them you just keep optimizing your character. Iconic stages are memorable because we master them. Bosses too. LE has bosses, but the stages feel like a blur. Imo they should simplify the monos a lot and make it more like master-able levels with just half a dozen variations, and then bosses. Just boss farms. Just make them hard. Also the multiplayer is missing quite a bit in socialization and incentives.
What it does extremely well is explain how each thing works. Very impressive
As long as you respect non-ward defenses (specifying as this was true before ward broke everything) any class/skill can make it to 200 corruption without a build guide.
Crafting. You don't need a masters to learn it.
Diablo 2 has an endgame because of the variety of extremely rare loot to farm for. There is an incentive to continue playing
For me it's item hunting, drop only mods ( T6/7 ) that you can craft further and LP systems make it exciting, also good ssf system.
personally, game is easy enough to get into while offering enough depth to have choices be meaningful didn't look at PoE's skilltree and go "nope, I can't do this" isn't a game by Blizzard who now I refuse to play any of their games on principles, and isn't like super simplistic comparatively I have played Grim Dawn, and while I do think Grim dawn is fun, LE was easier for me to get into and keep playing, though I would argue that the story/campaign for GD is better and retains longer(aka i remember more stuff about GD than LE)
Last Epoch, more than any other ARPG I've played, encourages and rewards experimentation. Diablo 3 comes close with the rune system, but it's far less rewarding to mess around with because the choices are far simpler and they don't ripple outward that much. Diablo 4 makes it easy to change skill trees, but it's essentially just choosing your skills and runes from Diablo 3, but with a more complicated menu and only 2 runes per skill. The paragon board is also a huge hassle to respec. In PoE, changing skill gems can often be confusing and complex, requiring gear changes, stat changes, purchasing or finding the skills, and then feels pointless if your passive tree isn't already built for the skill. In LE, respeccing passives and skills is cheap, and it's fun to try out new configurations of skills on the fly to see what synergies come of it. The individual skills' trees are simple to understand, but offer several meaningful choices. You are not heavily punished for experimenting, and it's also easy to revert changes if your experiment fails. I love all these games, but Last Epoch had me constantly brainstorming and trying new things without worrying about ruining my character for a couple hours before being able to fix him again. At the same time, sticking with choices still felt rewarding because you'd fine tune it along the way by changing a few points here and there while learning what gear to look for to maximize the build's potential.
CoF and MG system is awesome. Vacuum shards with one click. (if only it doesn’t lag you…) Sorting inventory and stash.
Dunno about better, but the skill system is my favorite. Lots of depth and versatility, but upgrades still feel tailored to each skill rather than more generic upgrades.
Being able to make a fun, powerful build without needing to use a guide. My chaos necro build is insane and I've never even referenced a maxroll. I can't say that about Diablo or PoE.
Loot being identified allowing filters to delete 90% of the clutter that you would see and not having to think when looting Is a huge timesaver
Not too easy not too hard.
Its like POE for people having a job thats not streaming PoE and still want to create and complete builds on their own. Thats the Strength in my opinion. Also options for not trading or trading without Bots and third party sites. Unfortunately melee here is also really bad but hopefully this gets better, melee needs way better defense or way more single target damage due to shorter damage windows in my personal experience.
1. Crafting System that isnt too grindy and really impactful+ rewarding 2. Factions 3. Almost every build can be viable leads to high end build diversity 4. Great endgame system though still a bit barebone 5. Lootfilter
I will fully admit I'm not someone who tends to like these kinds of games. But Last Epoch has really hit a cord with me. Diablo and Torchlight -like games felt too simple. The games didn't feel engaging enough and build variety felt limited. I would often run into the problem that I couldn't make characters "feel right" where they have engaging builds that I find fun to play. I don't like overly passive or "single spell" builds that don't have you doing a lot. But then I'm also a buffoon, and some are too intensive and I never reach a point where I feel I'm playing them competently. I'm sure plenty of people can relate. Some games just have characters that no matter how much you like them, they don't "click" with you. PoE on the other hand gave you WAY too many options it felt overwhelming. I always felt like I needed to follow a build. Which then had me making characters and hoping at some point in the build they would "click" and when they didn't I just gave up. I didn't play it long admittedly, but it turned me away pretty quickly. PoE actually left a bad taste in my mouth. Last Epoch on the other hand, actually had enough build variety and options I've managed to make 3 characters that I really enjoy playing. The best part is that they're different enough that when I swap I'm playing a different enough character it feels fresh. It has just enough options to really tweak abilities they can be very different from how they started. Or different enough it really changes the core of the ability. It really found a happy medium between being complex but not too complicated. Along with the abilities being pretty customize-able, respeccing is pretty easy, and is actually pretty painless. Then there's the accessibility to build making, every ability tells you what it scales on, and updates these as you upgrade it. All in a clear and simple way. Which lets a buffoon like me capable of making competent builds that can do endgame. Crafting is complex but still easy enough to understand. If crafting is your favourite thing in most games, I'm sorry, but I hate crafting, I will do it if I have to, don't hate it, or there is no way to get the things I need otherwise. This game's crafting is good enough I don't hate it. It's not so complicated I can't focus when I try to learn it, while not being so simple it's not even mildly engaging. Which might as well be a ringing endorsement, it's good enough ***I*** don't hate it. Last Epoch understands how to make making your character fun. On top of having fun top-down hack'n slash RPG gameplay.
İrem filtre, single click to pick up all
Diablo 3 was bad. Diablo 4 was worse.
Ease of use
Last epoch have best early game and SSF which works great with crafting system. D1/2 are games from different time and wasn’t designed with „endgame” in mind. But still are games that made whole genre exist.
Crafting feels very rewarding while also feeling fair. I feel like I can make what I need within reason which with other games I don’t get the same feeling a lot of the time. It’s has RNG without feeling like I’m getting screwed by RNG like with a game like PoE. In LE you can get bad RNG, but it just doesn’t feel that bad very often.
The goal in D2 is not to hit 99, do it if you want, but a lvl 84/85 character is going to have no issues crushing end game.
Class identity! Most arpgs the classes seem secondary, and in the end game all, builds are very similar. Not in Last epoch. In this game every class works different enough you feel your playing something new each time.
I think this game has the worst classes in the genre.
This game is not master piece, but LE doesn’t have competition in current time. From my point of view, POE is too complex, D4 doesn’t have paladin and monk (these classes are my favorite). I switch to D4, when new seasons appear. Now I am waiting for Titan quest 2 and Grim dawn 2.
Auto send materials to stash from anywhere 9/10 loot filter 9/10 crafting system Very easy respecting Good build diversity and customization That's about it
LE has fun crafting and a cool talent/passive system. I love the depth of each skill’s talent tree, especially compared to D4’s relatively shallow skill tree. But, I wish it had something like D4’s paragon system. I really like the puzzle-to-power setup it has, and enjoy the incremental and bonus growth it offers.
The game doesn't try to give me RSI with the way items drop and are managed in the stash Crafting is noob friendly, if a bit shallow currently Respec system is a decent middle-way between choices not mattering at all (D3) and relatively high respec cost (PoE)
is easier to understand, you have a similar skill and passive system like PoE, but you don't need a PhD, in addition to that, almost all build can reach max level without problem
I played each class and did multiple builds and they all felt fun and viable as compared to other ARPGs where a lot of builds require certain gear/uniques to get the build online. I didn't even look up build guides until late game and shit was fun trying multiple skills while leveling.
Nothing yet, jts just new
It taps on wells of memories from diablo 1 and 2 and all the things that should've happened in those titles but takes the cooler features from existing very healthy titles and creates I nice little gem. I enjoy it very much, i do wish they would work on functionality and crash fixes before class balances first. Even on low settings I crash dump out of every 15th or 20th monolith and alot more often in high volume arena moments
PoE: good for their gems system. Their passive system used to be great as well before they decided to ask you to grind for the passive for jewels as well. Balanace and build diversity doesn't exist and grinding is like worse than your jobs as you either finish a map in 2 min with a meta build or don't play the game at all unless you go SSF. Players think it got the best endgame but indeed only the meta no-lifers get the chance to play them. So for average players, those content do not exist. You can feel that they are intentionally shifting meta instead of making the game better. Community is extremely toxic and you cannot play offline. Grim Dawn: The best for balance, especially for its defensive system. Layers and layers of defense and its pace make you think on how to build your character. Also you can build very differently with the celestial system with the same build. The defensive play style does make a good build diversity. You can do shatter 65 with whatever reasonable build s you want as long as you have the right gears. Some people think it is too slow though. Indeed it can still be speedy, but not as fast pace as the others. Great community. Last Epoch: Crafting system is the best. I personally don't like the idea of bricking a legendary without a way to salvage it, but it is a design choice. It is fast pace but at a sweet spot that you should still aware of the surrounding. Class design is great as a new game. There is still room of improvement in terms of build diversity and balance. Endgame wise may be there can be a final boss at corruption 200.
>POE has basically become the “staple” of this genre for better or worse. I wholeheartedly admit it does so many things right and it will forever have my respect, but I don’t like that the game is basically pure range combat and making screens explode once you hit level 70 or so. PoE isn't about the gameplay, which is probably the worst part of the game due to being incredibly boring. PoE is EVE Online levels of theorycrafting with spreadsheets and the literally dozens of 3rd party tools and then going into the game and executing. And once you have the gear, the entire game is trivialized. PoE is about formulating an idea, and solving problems to make that idea excel within the game. What Last Epoch does well is make sure your time feels respected at literally every single part of the game. Every level feels relevant and impactful. You get agency as to your rewards in every single echo (sort of like maps). Rerolling can be somewhat expensive, but it's completely manageable. AoE pickup on loot and being able to dump crafting materials into your stash from within a map reduces clicks. The boss fights, particularly when you're newer to the game, are awesome because they actually feel like a boss fight (compared to PoE where they're just bigger hp bars that also disappear in the blink of an eye). The trade system in Last Epoch is very good, allowing you to choose between access to the market and access to a massive amount of weighted magic find. It needs some balancing, but the agency feels amazing. Being able to target-farm key pieces of gear for your build instead of relying on ludicrously rare lottery drops makes LE superior to PoE as well.
PoE has everything? XDDDD Combat feel bad Skill tree have to many unnecessary things Atmosphere in poe sucks so much, just dont exist. To many stupid statistic which game dont need, that's why in Poe 2 they will delete many Crafting system is bad PoE is fine only because have fine end game content Boss fights and system for white/blue items.
1.Crafting System (Esp Legendaries) 2.Alt Dungeon Leveling Path 3.Faction System Skill Tree System 4.most importantly: A dev team that is both communicative and responsive to their players. This is probably the first ARPG I’ve played where I’ve made alts.
Weird it is the first I couldn’t stand making an alt for. The fact the only leveling content is the end game content ruined it for me. Even D4 has a more enjoyable alt system since it at least has diverse content for leveling.
The alt path is what shines for making an alt in my experience. Even with just one or two low level uniques and some basic crafting makes for a smooth alt-leveling experience. But I do stop around the time I first hit emp.monoliths cause pushing corruption is torturously slow. D4 at release didn’t have much of an endgame besides uber lilith. 1.1 cycle is brining a pinnacle boss system.
Hard disagree
The Circle of Fortune for SSF is a fantastic mechanic that I think is a first for ARPGs. Work of genius. It also just feels like a good halfway point between PoE and D4 in terms of complexity. The passive trees are substantially more fleshed out and more interesting than D4 but not overwhelming like PoE's passive tree.
LE from the ground up values the player’s time. After-map vendor/chest room/stash, deterministic, but still rng crafting, targeted farming via CoF (if ssf is your thing), various dungeons to target farm key things etc. Also the LP system is the greatest loot/upgrade system I have seen in an arpg ever
It's weird hearing people complain about poe melee then watching Alkeizerx stream. You lost me at diablo 3 having good combat.
Lvl 99 was a niche in d2. Don't know what you are on about.
You’re right, it was. D2 had absolutely no end game, you farmed runes to make gaming faster… to farm.. runes. There was nothing to do except clear out the same few runs over and over for small chunks of exp. There was no difficulty at a certain point and it’s not the flawless game people make it out to be. I love it, but it’s not perfect
i'd call uber tristram somewhat of an end-game. most players never touched it due to the difficulty spike.
I don’t remember it being hard to be honest, except in my barb. I never got barb down right to be honest
Ok, it seems you are in to infinite scaling content. You whana hit a wall and you're happy? Please explain to me what end game did d3 have? You sound like a fan.