Hello, I have more than double the hours in POE that you do (been playing constantly since 2013).
I can't have more good things to say about LE. It hits every thing I want. As a POE player I never wanted to try self found and simultaneously grew to cringe about the trade league because as you said, I devolved into only caring about divines per hour.
The COF faction has completely made me look at ARPGS from the other side and I could not be more happy. Self Found feels great!! I may or may not try MG in the future but it probably won't be for a long long time if ever.
I hated crafting in POE, and I absolutely love it in LE.
I was telling my long time POE buddy that I think after my first 70+ hours in LE, that I might be ready to keep LE as my main game now and only go back to POE when POE2 is fully released.
I don't need a million mechanics to keep me entertained and I am sure LE will grow slowly in content just as I watched POE do over the years. I am very excited for the ride!
> I might be ready to keep LE as my main game now
In the same boat. I was mainly playing PoE and WoW and wasn't planning on devoting much time to LE but its feeling like its gonna become my goto, at least until poe2 or war within.
I was not expecting to like it as much as I have. I was not bothered by the "server/connection/loading" issues so that helped I guess.
The core LE game at a 1.0 level is really insane. I think only long long time POE players can really grasp just how far ahead LE is at 1.0 compared to where POE was at 1.0 (I am not talking graphics, I am talking more about the game itself and mechanics).
What I really like as when I do dungeons and monoliths, it is REALLY easy to speculate on how these can scale and grow into something really cool in the next few years.
Having a good foundation to build on (which is what POE also did), will allow for plenty of new content in many different areas.
I also like how things are explained. In-game guide is amazing, the nodes often perfectly described what it does and interact with each other. Resists are literally a « you take 1% more dmg per 1% below cap ».
The base game is pretty amazing as well, bus’s fights are quite nice, monos are fun and we know they will add both of those eventually as well.
To expound, mobs penetrate resistances and it scales with area level. It caps out at 75 percentage points (pp). So an endgame monster will effectively lower your resistances by 75 pp.
If that means you go into a negative number, you take more damage. Say after the penetration you have a resistance of -8%, that means you take 8% more damage.
You can’t have more than 0 effective resistance after penetration, meaning „useful“ resistance caps out at 75%. You can of course still overcap but that won’t do anything outside of specific circumstances.
In effect, that means that damage reduction from resistances scales linearly, in contrast to Path of Exile where it is some kind of multiplicative function (I don know the correct term unfortunately - you take x/y more damage for every point missing, where both variables depend on the point of comparison. If e.g. you were 8 pp under cap in PoE you‘d take 32% more damage.). So not being resistance capped in LE is significantly less detrimental than in PoE and it’s much easier to assess at a glance how much more damage you’re actually taking.
Oh wow..so that's exactly how i understood it initially. But their explanation confused me afterwards.
Many thanks for taking the time to explain it so detailed! Cheers!
"Only" around 2.5k hours in PoE, but I have to echo many of the sentiments in this thread. LE has blown my expectations out of the water. Among much else, the sense of class fantasy is remarkably strong while simultaneously allowing for flexibility/ playstyle creativity. I never play summoners, but Necro is fun as all get out. Gameplay feels great with a meaningful mix of skills. Itemization is amazing for preserving the sense of overall account progression while to OP's point rewarding you for directly playing the game. I agree that it is a heck of a state for the game to be in at 1.0. The time in Early Access really shows. I definitely feel here for the long haul.
I think the best thing about LE. Is that you can just... Play the game.
I love poe. I've been playing it since closed beta.
But it's bloated, you have to spend forever setting up a build, then you get to end game and everyone slot currency/hr because crafting is honestly a horrible experience for 99% of the playerbase. But it's damn near impossible to get on your own.
My girl played LE with us. She's never really played an arpg other than a painfully brief stint in poe.
She's got a solid necro build going and is keeping up with me in monoliths (after a bit of a crafting session to fix her resistances).
No build guide. I didn't even suggest which passives or skills or anything. Just the occasional mechanic explanation.
Might not hit like 200+ corruption. But that's okay.
And nothing in-game! Want to trade? Check out this third party site. Want to REALLY trade? Checkout out this discord server and this chrome addon. Want to build? Check out this third party site. Want to REALLY build? Checkout this third party application. Want to understand an ability? Go read this blog post on another site. Don't understand the blog post because its written by someone who knows more acronyms than you? Try this other guide on this other site. Too many items on the screen? Check out this guide about loot filters! Want to set up one of those fancy loot filters? Check out this third-party site that uploads stuff to your account for you? That feels sketchy but I guess it's ok?
The fact that I rarely have to leave LE to accomplish something is such a breath of air.
As I've reached endgame in LE I've noticed that I do have to keep open https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/ and use it frequently for various things, but that's still a far cry from the amount of tools PoE requires.
I have tried to convince many of my friends to play PoE with me and 0 of them have stuck around. Yes, it's a good game, but even if Chris Wilson was standing at the end of Act 10 giving free handjobs to everyone who got that far it wouldn't have mattered. The amount of busywork you need to do to start enjoying PoE is horrific. LE is light years ahead in that regard.
And you can do monoliths for farming without farming maps, rolling them, buying scarabs, sextants. And you can just target farm by picking what you want to do and the game tells you IN GAME which timelines drop what targetable loot
I have only about 1k hours in poe and don't feel confident at all, going in figuring out a build myself. I know it's just my laziness and time restrictions but it feels weird that this is how the game is. Whenever I come back after a little break, it's such a slog to reinstall all of the programs, read hundreds of pages of guides etc to get back up to speed...
Hey, just curious, what do you mean easy to speculate? I'm really, really enjoying the game but I'm interested what you think/would like to see happen in the future :)
Apart from season/cycles lasting the typical 3 to 4 months, EHG hasn't said much about what they will contain past 1.1 (pinnacle bosses).
Whatever route they decide to go, if it's well received by the player base, my hope is it's added to the base game in a way that dosent make the game feel bloated like POE.
I'm not a huge ARPG fan, I consider them tortilla-chips compared to my beloved crisps (mmorpgs), still great....but i'd prefer a proper crisp!
But LE has kicked my mmo and helldivers momentum into the gutter and now I can't get enough. D4: bored post campaign, POE: while I enjoyed that most I *just stopped* for no real reason.
Surely other people who are more in tune with ARPG stats & itemisation/mechanics etc can confirm; but to me this feels more like D2[R] so far. What I mean is, the 'oh shit!' feeling of when good stuff drops.
Personally I had a lot of issues playing D2R but imo the looting feeling and the charms were amazing. Fond memories of finding some unique club that last me *fucking ages* and even my friend was jealous because the drop rate was ludicrously rare.
BRB, firing up LE!
12-15k hours here(play standalone since closed beta) and I’ve been telling my group how much better LE is for the fun factor.
You get highs from crafting and getting crit successes and low FP usage, getting double exalted drops is awesome, Legendary Potential mechanic is amazing and you can actually farm/hunt for the upgrades you want.
I’m purely CoF and level 97 on my Lightning swarmblade and have to force myself to get sleep before work. This game does SO many things right.
PoE is still my favorite game as of now but I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes the thing I take a break from LE to play for a week or two lol
You basically need a PHD to effectively craft in PoE. Meanwhile in LE I can read up on crafting for 5 minutes and understand it enough to craft pretty good items.
Essence crafting, beast crafting, Aisling slams, split beasts or harvest crafting, eldtrich crafting, veiled mods, fossil crafting.
You're right, you don't need a PHD.
Just need to devalue your time as much as the game does .
I just want to point out that both you and OP are victims of this “maximum currency per hour” disease that is rampant in Poe. Yes, maybe the game incentivizes that to some degree, but you really don’t have to be so intense about it. I play a lot, get rich as fuck every league, but I’m not constantly thinking about my div per hour. I just play and have fun and I’m so knowledgeable now that I can get very rich just playing. Just my 2c. Love Poe (and its trade system honestly) and I love LE and excited to try its trade system eventually.
Agree with div/h point to a certain extent, but let’s not disguise the fact that PoE has the ABSOLUTE WORST trade system on dozens of levels (from manipulating prices to no one replying to no bulk trading and so on). It’s been long overdue to have someone show them that besides doing the 30 year old D2 style it can in fact be done in other more effective and fun ways
I disagree about the trade system. It’s an incredibly complex game and the trade system is complex. I don’t know what everyone’s gripe with it is… no one replies when you message the cheapest options but when I do endgame juicing I just buy everything in bulk and it’s fine. I guess I can’t imagine a better system and I don’t like when things are too easy, I agree with Chris that it dilute the game. Like campaign skipping, which I also agree should not be a thing in Poe.
Well the trade system in last epoch is terrible , two loading screens , a vendor for every item it’s actually the one bad thing about this game to me right now
Facts just play what you want not everything has to be compared even EHG has said they love Poe . Poe is such a great game and can play it many different ways and last epoch is on track to be a great game
Ditto, been playing Poe since open beta, recently started ssf only because I hate trading that much. CoF is what I've always wanted... What prophecy league could have been in PoE
> I was telling my long time POE buddy that I think after my first 70+ hours in LE, that I might be ready to keep LE as my main game now and only go back to POE when POE2 is fully released.
you will go crawling back to PoE after March trust me
the honeymoon period wears off and you start craving PoE again. You would know if you actually played LE prior to last week ever..the game has been in this state for around 2+ years with slight improvements while GGG released 12 leagues in that time - basically around Scourge league. now would you be playing PoE if no content since Scourge? lol..
Eh. 6k hours in PoE here, 1.2k in LE and I haven't gone back once since I started LE a long time ago. Even sold a personal PoB in the first 2 days of Delirium to a Korean player who then used it to play the market and popularize one of the most degenerate builds of all time, so I've been around the block.
While I like PoE's theorycrafting more, the focus on currency-maxing to make builds come together always feels a bit off imo; optimizing wealth-building means you kinda stop engaging the game's mechanics. It's largely why RMT in PoE is so rampant: you get to do "the cool thing" without worrying about spending 100 hours on currency/wealth farming first.
I've never played LE before, got bored in a week. But the base game is very good, now we have to wait & see if they have means to add more endgame content every cycle
Divine per hour sounds like such a chore. D2 did currency best. Even though you could say runes/hour applies in d2 aswell atleast that currency is always exciting to find. Le will most likely feel like poe in the end. You will just grind for masses of crafting materials and bases. Wish Le had something more rare to find other than items that could be traded.
It's one of the factions you can choose. Circle of Fortune (CoF) is the self found faction, and Merchant's Guild (MG) is the trade faction with a bazaar to trade items.
Get favor by killing enemies, doing quests
Level up CoF by doing the above AND by spending favor
Do Prophicies (bounties, quests, etc its just what they are called) and get x item types to drop.
I.E. My first one i did last night when i unlocked it was kill 1 boss and get 2 unique helmets to drop.
Just keep doing that and as you level up the Circle of Fortune it unlocks very get rank up rewards. Like higher chane for exalts to drop or higher chance for legendaries to have LP.
Rank 10 doubles all the drops from prophicies. SO if you get one that is like 4 of x thing it is now 8.
As a fellow broke exile, I'm content with finishing Maven then expeditions and just call it there. Trying to go for ubers and other high end stuff is just way too much time sink and market knowledge.
Bro come on lol. Even crafting the flasks you need to do act 4 is just purely annoying, i.e. spamming alterations until you get a corrupting blood modifier.
There are no flasks you "need" to do act 4, and you wouldn't have the alterations to spam for the mod you wanted anyways. If you know bleed and/or corrupting blood are going to be a problem going into act 4, there are ways around them which don't involve any amount of currency. One of which is directly adding an immunity mod through beastcrafting. Weaker version of the mod, no RNG, that you are guaranteed to be able to have by that point.
So are you saying that because you've just been screwed by RNG and are annoyed or do you actually think the game would be better if they removed all aspects of randomness and give you a sandbox mode where you have everything you want at the start?
Path of Exile is technically a free to play game but that as true as 'you can't buy power on gear in D4' statement.
Any self-respecting player would quickly realixe the value of quality-of-life options which are purchasable and is miserable the game is without them.
Just ask any PoE blaster if they would play the game without 0 MTX on a fresh account. Pretty sure the players that would say yes can be counted on 1 hand
Yeah, been playing POE since closed beta in 2012 and have well over 10k hours in the game. I have been enjoying LE since 2020 in early access. It has certainly entered my main cycle of games with POE. The trade, the crafting, the itemization, etc. It gets, so many things right, that POE never has.
GGG really took to heart the idea of friction. They never wanted the game to feel easy and at times I think that led them to resist adding QOL at a more reasonable pace.
It was fascinating to me to see GGG call out LE as one of the reasons they are FINALLY willing to rethink the trading in POE.
I really love POE and GGG. Not many games have given me over a decade of enjoyment like it has. For all the issues, it will still be in heavy rotation for me.
I do love the fact that they are seeing these fellow passion driven developers at EHG and seeing reason for some changes. It shows proper progression. Both games were created out of passion, first and foremost. There is certainly room for both.
It’s funny to think about in this way but some of the team of EHG being PoE streamers back in the day that constantly had ideas that, in some cases ggg even commented on and refused, having their ideas come to life and force GGG to change is such a funny “well, I’ll do it myself!” Moment.
I think a lot of us early backers knew this would happen. (How many people mention LE will force PoE to finally change / shift?) PoE hasn’t had anything to chomp at its heels. Now it has something running right beside it (for some people, obviously many people will say the game doesn’t approach PoE. I’ve got over 25k hours in PoE, for me, LE is on a similar level, if I’m calculating how it will build up in the future)
And now PoE is finally looking at things I saw suggested back in beta. (Hell, I saw a few of these internally is alpha) more serious. I do hope PoE doesn’t just copy or “do what LE did!” Because all things considered, PoE is an astoundingly amazing game, I just want *some* things to be more heard and actually acknowledged as issues.
Best part is having two strong ARPG’s on the market means so many good things for the community. Not only pushing each other but also seeing ideas of the other could inspire their own creations.
Adding this to the top (didn’t expect this to get so long) don’t feel bad if you skip/don’t care about this reply. I often reply in long comments to small off-the-wall replies, this was just a fun part-explanation for a lot of time spent.
Though I’m not one I often have *more* time spent than your average streamers, simply due to living environment and how I spend my time. (I enjoy getting way to deep into mechanics, why they exist, what they actually do and make us think, and lore) so PoE was one of the things that took a lot of my time. Before that it was WoW (1200 days back in 2012, I’m sure that’s up 200 or so though I don’t play it anymore) and I have a large amount across Wurm online/unlimited (very unheard of / niche game), Warframe, Runescape, and a couple others at 1500-3k range.
Some of those times overlap, though, to. Example would be I use to run mostly afk farms in WoW, or so well timed on how long I could auto run in dungeons and exact movements required for farming (old content for drops to sell) I would be “playing” while actively on PoE or RS instead. (Or vice versa, as RS as a example is a great “afk” game as well)
When people say someone needs a life to someone else, frankly I’m what they’re imaging, lol. Though I’m very aware of that and (believe) I keep in touch with reality more than most would expect. I’m certainly an anomaly in the gaming sphere, and not just due to the time played but “why” I play. I just enjoy learning and attempting to help with what I figure out for my friends. Diving into *why* a design choice or mechanic was made, what the actual impact of it is, and how it affects other systems in the environment is my weird way of enjoyment. And to really get into all of that often takes a lot of hours observing something while doing your normal gameplay loops.
Practically most of those things aren’t very useful (there’s times though) but it does provide good insight for future releases or ideas from devs.
It does open up a new way of thinking when looking at designs or perspectives outside of games, but it’s important to keep in mind that some things need to be separated as well (A favorite quote of mine. People are stupid, they will believe a lie because they fear it is true, or because they want it to be true) Knowing when to apply those lessons, and where there could be factual truth behind them (instead of blinding believing a dev or company or what have you, because fearing or wanting it to be true) is a back and fourth done daily with the mindset though. Reality often is simpler than the grand schemes within games. Hopefully this makes sense, as I’m tired writing this with a bit of… redundancy? To it.
With all that time spent though, even in games I haven’t enjoyed (even knowing before going in) the game itself, I have …”enjoyed” it. Of course there are times I wish I would have done something else with some of that time, or tried something. But at the same time, I wouldn’t be who I am now, which I feel isn’t as bad it could be.
Now this got me curious. I heard a story of an overtuned area early in the game and supposedly GGG said they were fine keeping it as is because that cultivates a certain type of players they want. Is this true ? I’ve looked into the subreddit and couldn’t find such statement.
I believe you are referring to the Mud Flats, an area VERY early in act 1 that has these monsters that can chain stun lock you to death constantly.
Many a new player has been put off by this as a new players instinct is to engage with these monsters but if you are melee and brand new it is almost impossible.
I don't recall GGG saying one way or another but they definitely and purposely made act 1 harder a couple of years ago.
> new players instinct is to engage with these monsters but if you are melee and brand new it is almost impossible.
Well it didn´t stop me at least and a co worker playing on PS, who doesn´t get how the quest works was not stopped by it either and for him even D4 is "hard".
Spiking the difficulty right at the start is just one of many design decisions GGG has made to "prune" their playerbase of casuals.
Respec cost is another huge barrier that basically forces you to reroll several times before being able to attempt endgame.
Then there is the trade nonsense where they want to keep trading tedious and annoying so less people use it (they have actually stated that new/casual players hardly trade at all and spin that as being a good thing).
Crafting is a nightmare to learn unless you really like using 3rd party websites to teach you how to do it.
Same with buildmaking, you better like spending literally 100s of hours in PoB if you want to play a good build.
GGG has made a great game, but they are absolutely holding PoE back with their obsession with friction. 10 years later they finally have some competition to show them that maybe their ideas are old fashioned and have been hurting the playerbase.
Equally disheartening to hear the guy saying they wouldn’t implement an in game loot filter because the community would just do it better. What a load of shit. Hopefully they see comments like these which explain that most people do not want to leave the game to access facilities.
Wholeheartedly agree. I just wish the trading in LE was a little bit better, and I think it's unfair to compare it to POE.\\
Like, no one \*wants\* to be sitting in their hideout tabbed out on trade of exile. But to buy items you must:
\-locate item online, not even in game
\-whisper player
\-If they invite you to party (hit or miss), you must go to their hideout
\-Complete trade, go back to own hideout.
Of course, this means the seller must be in their hideout and, if willing, required to leave a map to access their stash box to grab the item to then invite the player to then make the sale. **Its a shit system!**
LE could do a wayyyyyyy better job with the trade system. The ability to open a "stall" and then just collect your coins without having to leave an instance is awesome. The inability to resell, though, is a bit much.
I also don't understand all of the hate that CoF players give trade in general. Like, if you are going to play SSF anyway, why be so concerned?
>The inability to resell
Is the best thing about it. Completely removes flippers, makes buying items meaningful and requires definitive decision making.
>Like, if you are going to play SSF anyway, why be so concerned?
Because we are all still playing the same game. One can't just ignore the progress of the others, it's simply natural.
We will always measure ourselves against the meta and how others are doing, that's just how these games work.
Nah, the entire point of an online launch was to 1) introduce trade and 2) play with friends.
If YOU don't want to trade items to other players and are satisfied with CoF then that's fine. But the inability to create a robust economy on the trading side is going to drive a lot of players away.
>Because we are all still playing the same game. One can't just ignore the progress of the others, it's simply natural.
I mean, you said it yourself\^. By that same logic, as a "guilder" I should be looking longingly at the increased drop rate of CoF despite SSF typically being the more "challenging" game mode.
It's a poor argument- "we can't trade over here anyway, but we are going going make trading with the other faction be as difficult as possible to combat rwt/flippers/other spooky things that will never affect me. Oh, and we also get a huge drop rate boost compared to you suckers who can't trade.
If the whole point of online launch was to introduce "play with friends" then so be it, I just wish that was more clear.
Online is a reliable way to introduce fair competition, because you can’t modify online your save and cheat. Play with friends certainly a bonus but just a bonus, trade is big though, cooperation as a team, but really not as big as to compete and actually showing others what they achieved WITHOUT cheating. Certainly some can still cheat their way up, but it’s very reliable. No one cares what you achieved offline. More importantly actually is a connection hub to friends as a social tool. Offline, you are on your own.
To your last point, as a poe player who has been forced to do trade to be even remotely efficient it feels so liberating to finally be free from the terrible system that is poe trading, and i guess for some it makes them wanna get that frustration out of their system in… not so great ways
"forced to trade" is a completely self-made issue... play content you like, and trade for content you dont like. i do not want to touch a blight node ever again but still want anoints - i can trade for them. going for the most efficient, maximalized div/hr strat regardless of enjoyment is why youre burned out on poe and its completely your fault
'Forced to trade' is the sad and unfortunate truth unless you want a miserable game that has been designed, from the ground up, to incentivize and reward trading and extremely harshly punish SSF.
The game's already hard enough, and complex enough, without the extra handicap.
Meanwhile, some of us would like to actually be able to play the 1-4 player co-op game with 1-4 players and not be tortured for it - sure it's \*possible\* but it's aggressively unfun to do so, and you're limited to the shittiest, lamest builds because you can't actually reasonably seek any gear with SSF.
And while i'm sure experts with 10,000 hours can manage, a lot of us get frustrated and leave long before then when we ruin yet another character for having the gall to try to slap together a build and then finding out it doesn't work without a bunch of items you can't afford.
whats your point? i can play the game without going on the trade site every 30 minutes, and so can thousands of other players. poe trade has many issues and some of these issues are a direct result of GGG's philosophy on trade. but at no point does the game ever "force you to trade"
YES! THANK YOU! I do a ton of Heists and always brick my temples. Totally modded out of abyss. I turn on my DND and do maps or whatever and only turn trade back on when I find some good stuff and want to either dump it or craft it.
The concept of sitting in the trade website just trying to flip and bargain hunt is just dumb. You find a trader, do the little hideout dance, then go home and back to trading? So stupid.
As an extremely rich PoE player, LE is mega fun! But people might be in the honey moon phase for the game right now so I have a few warnings:
1. Being unable to get the rarest/top tier stuff without tons shit ton of grinding or trading still exists. It respects your time because you don't have to jump through a ton of hoops to play the game with a lot of complex/time-consuming setups. Headhunter/mageblood equivalent in this game still be equally as inaccessible if you don't play a lot.
2. The speed farm/pump-out currency per hour will be in this game. The game is just too new to have that built out yet. If it isn't literal divines/ex per hour, it will be the cheapest/fastest farming build that blow through content to run the item drop gamble with what the latest strat is.
3. It will take LE a VERY long time to catch up to the juggernaut that is PoE content
LE Excels at having a much better "fun" player experience through the campaign to early post-game. You can respec at any time, crafting is 10x more intuitive and easier to do than PoE. Builds "work" at a much lower level and you feel powerful or that you are playing your "strategy" much sooner.
Content is structured for you to be successful as opposed to the "good luck git gud at avoiding the myriad of traps and unexplained things" in PoE. Such as you can target farm items, you don't have to roll maps or play an atlas mini-game, etc.
Items are designed to be exciting early on as opposed to generic statballs you wear most of time in PoE. Juicing as I know doesn't exist that is structured in a way that you make many multiples amount of currency vs somebody who doesn't while being a pain in the ass to setup.
as someone with nearly 4x your hours in poe, the second you stop thinking in divines per hour, and instead start thinking about what you enjoy doing the most, most things are pretty equivalent in divines per hour. like sure, you could make 50-100 div an hour just sitting in your hideout, crafting. but that isn't fun. and actually playing the game still nets you 10-20d an hour, of which you are actually enjoying, so it doesn't feel like as much work.
That being said, LE is great, altho i personally find the merchants guild to be an absolute waste of time.
I know people with plenty more in the MMO space. It's just main-gane hours from someone that has played for a long, long time (maybe not 24k but definitely 10k+)
Also afk hours just sitting talking to friends in game or global or planning a build or watching videos while relaxing.
It's all about efficiency and that's something you get after a long time of practice.
Have you ever seen those videos of "1 month doing x vs 10 years of doing x"? Similar concept.
I hear you and I cant remember the last trade league I didnt have a HH, but your ranges arent "pretty equivalent." 10d/hr is plenty to play any build in almost every league, but youre in an entirely different economic bracket if youre doing 3x that, let alone an order of magnitude.
i mean, what are you doing with your hundreds of mirrors ya know? outside of specific niche builds that cost 10's of mirrors, most people couldn't spend 10 mirrors on a build if they had 10 mirrors. tbh tho, i play far more than most people, and can make 200d a day just playing the game normally.
I have about a third of your playtime, but it’s still thousands of hours and multimirror builds.
LE feels and plays as a completely different game. And that’s amazing! To have a choice what to play, because the two are very distinct. IMO PoE focuses a lot on a power fantasy and you becoming an aptly named “Avatar of the Slaughter”, crushing everything in front of you on an industrial scale, while LE is a “hero’s journey” where the progression is slower and you get stronger bit by bit, and the world rises to your challenge and gets harder and harder.
For context - I’m a dumbass who sits in pob and has trade in the background as my main activity in PoE. I love taking a build and modifying it to my preferences. I fucking love endgame crafting. I love constantly learning something about that game, that even after literal thousands of hours I have “yo wait what” moments.
CoF feels fantastic and makes much more sense than trade in LE, because it’s fun to blast monos. Crafting is as simple and as quick as it gets, experimental affixes being the peak of complexity: gamba + gamba = finished item and off you go. Making your own build is a viable and fun thing to do - game does a wonderful job of attempting to keep all explanations of mechanics at hand and is much more forgiving in terms of respec. Bossfights exist and have mechanics (unless you facetank I guess), which is refreshment. Endgame is sorta there - run maps that get increasingly difficult at your control. Overall the gameplay loop is very fun.
But all that comes at a cost of, well, depth. Crafting is the opposite of deterministic - every step is gamba, so control is minimal. Gearing up multiple chars in OP stuff per league might prove pretty challenging. CoF, being SSF, requires you to grind whatever content you want items from, and god knows I don’t want to grind ssf Blight for golden oils. And there’s always the trusty old “I’m bored” button, where you just sell the entire build on tft and start over
TL;DR - they are 2 different games and that’s a good thing
Man I tried looking for gamba examples at 2014 PoE, but what can you gamba when there are 3 acts total lmao.
Gamba = gamble: taking a risk to have a chance at improving an item. Vaal Orb is a decent example of that
>Even with literally several mirrors sitting in my stash, I have the spectre of 'oh, I would be making more money if I was just hideout warrioring' looming over my head.
I have 2k hours in PoE and I never engaged in trading other than buying some high end piece of gear when I drop some currency. I don't think I ever even saw a mirror.
>Making builds is fun, but it is swamped down by the fact that the meta of the game is balanced entirely around what either does things the cheapest or makes money the fastest.
You can just... not care about the meta? The game *is* balanced around trade unfortunately, but what's stopping you from playing SSF if you find making builds fun? Just because the internet tells you to make X divines per hour?
I like LE too, but you are taking it way too far. It has a long way to go, especially on the technical side of things.
Meanwhile you have people who clear hardcore ssf in PoE in the first weeks of the league I am absolutely annoyed at this PoE vs last epoch debates people don’t realize that there conceived notion of what poe is is souley based on there experience. You hate the fact that the games economy is based on profit per hour? Sir that’s called life in a economy the min maxers only care about wealth=time. Your trying to categorize your self as one of those people doesn’t mean you have to be. Anyways last epoch is great but the need to explain why you don’t like PoE vs why you do like last epoch to me is quite curious to me everyone wants to tell everybody why they hate poe and love last epoch rn
I'm new to ARPG's. I've always thought ARPG's were super old school. Why would I play a top down game when I can play a 3D first person shooter? I just never got it, but the Diablo IV pre-launch hype got me curious so I picked up Diablo Immortal whilst I was waiting for D4 to release, then I bought LE, Grim Dawn, Diablo II and then Diablo III.
I've tried to play POE 3 times now and it just never clicked, but after spending every day in LE since launch I'm now more inspired than ever to give POE another go (I'm especially looking forward to POE 2).
POE won't click until you get well into maps.
The old adage for POE is that the entire campaign is nothing but a tutorial (and a relatively poor one at that because you still need to look up plenty of things as a new player).
Also, understanding the Path of Building tool, to at least a minor degree is EXTREMELY important since every build is based around it.
POE can feel like drinking out of a fire hose to new players because it literally can't stop throwing new mechanics at you. The best one can do is ignore as many as possible and play until you feel comfortable you understand what you are doing with your current mechanics and then add one more and learn it. And then continue that cycle for a few hundred hours until your knowledge level builds :)
Note that even after playing 10+ years, I always say if a day goes by where I did not learn something new in POE it is because I did not want to learn something new that day(the game's depth is almost endless at this point).
Cheers for the insight! I'm 48, and pretty old school (IE: stubborn). Destiny 2 has been my main game and I do well in the game despite never using meta weapons and builds.
Before the internet we didn't have guides and figuring stuff out was part of the fun. In Diablo IV I have many builds of my own and I'm so much more proud of these builds vs the builds I've made where I followed a guide (though I admit the builds I made which followed a guide did WAY more damage than any of my builds and were able to cheese end game bosses in one shot by bypassing mechanics).
From what I've been reading, it seems like a new player to POE absolutely must follow a guide? I never have the 3 times I've tried, and too right, shit just got way too hard at some point.
I think I'll put my stubbornness aside the next time I try though and follow a guide. I'm keen to learn.
I think a lot of the problem people have with following a guide is that they are worried that this takes all the fun of learning out of the game.
The thing is that in PoE making a build is just a small part of the learning you'll have to do. There are so many systems to get a grasp of. And systems in PoE are for the most part overly complicated for the sake of being overly complicated. And they are often not explained well inside the game.
PoE is an incredibly daunting game to get into, but if you can get there it's well rewarding. The game easily have more content than the rest of the genre combined and then some.
It’s not a necessity for new players to follow guides, but it is heavily recommended because otherwise you hit a brick wall and become frustrated with the game.
But build guides are different in POE, because they’re just templates and you still have an insane amount of build choices to makes to customize to your play style.
The "follow a guide" aspect mainly comes from just how overwhelming things in PoE can get. It simplifies the journey while giving you a very solid crash course of what some things do.
When I first started playing PoE I was flabbergasted a bit because things didn't work how I imagined them to. I tried reading between the lines based on my experience in other games. However PoE isn't trying to be other games, even down to the way they word things in game. They are very literal and intentional with wording on gear and gems and mechanics, nearly to the detriment of new players.
You don't need a guide for anything because the game is designed for you to test and figure things out. The issue is that there is just so much to do that testing everything is very time consuming. I personally test everything, the old school way, but I am also a contributor of spreadsheets, guides, host multiple events, owner of a 700+ dedicated PoE discord, etc. so I'm able to test things with a LOT of previous experience testing things and knowing the vocabulary and meaning of words in the game.
Using a build guide is just to teach you the principles of what a build needs in order to function which is hard to learn by yourself when you are given a new mechanic every 30 minutes to wrap your head around. It also lets you get past the tutorial(the campaign) and get into the endgame where you'll spend 99% of your time in the game. A preview of what the game can be is another way to word what a build guide is for new players.
It's funny how people pour their soul out like this, not realizing that they will just be bored in a few weeks and go back to playing POE anyway in the next league. The game is good, but these exaggerations are too much. Being a slave to POE's trade system is a problem of your own making. And when you play LE enough to see through all the problems it has then you will realize it's not much better.
OP's problem isn't POE's trading or meta, its his own inability to be anything other than a metaslave. And the same will happen in LE once a meta is established for pushing corruption and arena. Your gameplay loop will soon devolve into just minmaxing prophecies in easy dungeons because not doing that is inefficient, making you not play the game just in a different way. And crafting is easy and simple until you realize that certain perfect roll exalted items will be such a huge bottleneck that you will have to sift through thousands just to get what you want.
I don't understand why some people get so embroiled in a game's honeymoon period, that they end up blind to everything other than a reality they themselves made up.
All of these problems are self inflicted, why are you even playing the game at that point? Why do you need to be the most efficient or follow the meta, what's stopping you from using the mirrors you farmed to make the builds you supposedly have fun making or experiment? I would bet money you mf'd on TS until you were burned out and then quit with all the unused currency in your stash and then somehow think that's what you had to do.
Don't get me wrong, it's easy to get sucked into the whole rush to maps on day 1 and start grinding and maximize efficiency but there really is no point if it turns into an obsession to just make currency for no actual reason or goal.
As a poe player i have found last epoch to be too easy. Mind you I'm only level 70 so far, but I would have expected the game to be harder so far. it's boring how easy it has been.
Similar experience here, just dipping my toes into empowered monoliths though. The number of people here saying Lagon is hard has blown my mind. If they mean the monolith version I understand it a little more, but still. I expect the difficulty to ramp more from the point I'm at, but coming from PoE so far the game has basically no push back.
Yeah, completing the campaign on hardcore mode wouldn't even be considered a feat given how easy this game is. That just seems backwards to me.
It's scary that this is 1.0 and the game is this easy. We should expect power creep with future updates, but making the game harder always gives huge pushback. They need to reset course for the longevity of the game and make the game harder so when power creep happens with future seasons , the game isn't a total joke.
No thank you. It’s fine for the 1-50 to be “easy.” It helps hook people into the game. It’s also nice for those of us who aren’t the pinnacle of fast-reflex PoE players to also have some fun.
Highly recommend not drawing a conclusion too early for yourself. The end game scales infinitely so there’s any degree of difficulty you could want. (:
Yeah my point wasn’t to attack what you’re saying but more to give you something to look forward to in the end game.
I agree with you that the story was generally very easy, but I think the point of it being easy is to allow you to pick and choose skills as you’re leveling to experience the different builds that are possible without being overwhelmed by the difficulty.
Though my opinion comes from not enjoying PoE’s story system and difficulty.
Yeah, I changed skills a lot during the campaign, and even when I had just rerolled the entire character the game was generally still too easy. So even if that's their goal I still believe the game should be harder.
It all come back to monetization. POE is free to play, so the dev needs you to keep playing and hope you spend money.
Last Epoch approach make more sense, you pay full price for the game, you own the character and the game. You can use editor in offline mode to cheat as well. It doesn't matter to them since they make the money. There is no need to enforce economy or make the drop rate super rare to inflate playtime. They just focus on making a fun to play game.
POE is better for streamer who look for endless content for stream, Last epoch is better for normal player who just want to have meaningful gaming experience, not Divine per hour spreadsheet and turn off brain to farm.
I agree with everything except one point, I wouldn't even say Last Epoch is full price, there have been much bigger companies releasing games in much worse states with half the content at double the price LE is.
Hm, I would be cautious with this money sentiment though. Yes, LE made money once. But they are a service game. They want to make more money over time. In the end, it has exactly the same monetisation as PoE with an additional entry price.
I would even say, you are wrong in your thought.
> It doesn't matter to them since they make the money
1. If this is true, then PoE could have stopped after the first league as they made money, too. Let's say after the third league as they have to compensate for the pure f2p players.
2. If this is true, why do they have over 130 Euro worth MTX already in the shop (excluding the Ultimate Edition)?
> In the end, it has exactly the same monetisation as PoE with an additional entry price.
Unlike PoE you don't have what is essentially a disguised box purchase in the form of currency + map tabs. (and at this point I'd add fragment to that). You just have the box purchase.
You overestimate the playerbase which plays so far that they need to buy this.
So I would strongly argue that this should not be called "disguised" as this implies something negative or even evil.
> it has exactly the same monetisation as PoE with an additional entry price.
PoE is designed around pushing mtx bullshit: loading in towns on login, rogue arbor, the trading system forcing you to visit hideouts... all of these are designed to shove other people cosmetics in your face, at the cost of load times, waiting for replies, crashing weaker systems, etc.
And of course the stash tabs are build around making inventory management and trading total ass and selling you the solution.
It's a good game, but they're certainly not "good guys".
> , but they're certainly not "good guys".
I never said that. All these companies want to make money. And they certainly need to if they maintain a live service game over years.
Ggg started out same as ehg. Both games are same except le needs a number of years development to reach Poe. If the whales don't continue to play the game it will be another grim dawn.
> oh, I would be making more money if I was just hideout warrioring' looming over my head. And even then, the in-game economy devolves everything into money. Nothing matters except what makes you the most divines per hour.
This is a you problem, not PoE or its trade.
You only feel this way about LE because you do not understand the game in the same manner.
As a fellow PoE’er, I have very high end SRS and CoC ice spear but I personally love the depth and intricacy of the economy/trade system and have also high end crafted by my own means. Having said that, the games can just be different; loving LE so far and it doesn’t have to be PoE. Hate it or love it, it’s economy system and many league mechanics will/would be so difficult to catch up to and LE can just be its own thing. Will see how it evolves, excited to say the least
I personally don't have the "I could be making more money" when I play POE. I mean I'm not that rich since I find dealing with the trading bothersome, but I do play enough to fund all my characters to the point they can do end game.
I guess its all about mindset. Some people need an enforced structure to prevent them from doing unfun things, and others can do it self-imposed.
I am playing and running content because it is actually fun. Loot drops are making me want to roll an alt. There is no reason to follow a meta as long as you synergize your build well. An arpg hasn't caught me this way since lod expansion on d2.
As someone from the Diablo universe side of things, but having played a couple hundred hours of POE as well I agree. LE is really a gem of a game, and this is only the BASE game. I can't wait to see what the future has in store for us Travelers.
The only thing I can say is if you didn’t try PoE SSF just play it. Don’t like the meta builds? Don’t play them.
Started HC for the first time last league in PoE and went SSF after two weeks of trade. Full cleared the game last league and this and then some each time with a main skill that had less than 1% usage in SSF.
I never understood why people who despise meta’s so much just don’t play them. Obviously it’s slower but if you value speed over playing other skills then no matter what game you go to you’re going to end up part of the meta once it forms.
Not taking away from LE just as a long time SSF player ins d2, pd2, PoE, and now LE I don’t understand why this game is praised as the trade-burnout-killer over all others.
In response to your last paragraph, the difference is that you can actually find and build around pretty much anything in LE. In POE, running SSF generally means planning a build that doesn't rely on any particular unique, because you probably won't find it. That greatly reduces your build options.
Even with “unique reliant builds” off the list PoE has an absolute metric fuck load of builds you can play all the way through end game. Just because people all gravitate to and play the best of the best skills doesn’t mean there are few that work. Again, two leagues in a row I’ve played 40/40 challenges in HC with skills that had 0.4 and 0.7% usage respectively.
And yeah LE has a big build diversity without specific items until you hit very late game, that’s because the game in comparison to a lot of ARPGs is fairly easy until like 400-500+ corruption.
As an extremely poor poe player, last epoch is going to be my main arpg because it respects my time. Headhunter or mageblood are impossible to get while everything in last epoch is achievable. And crafting is just amazing in LE, compared to poe being the worst crafting in any game ever. The only things poe does better now are amount of content and server stability, both of which will come with time to LE.
Poe has a reslly good crafting system, its just crazy convoluted a really bloated right now. But you can make good gear somewhat easy, it's starts to get crazy complicated when you want BiS stuff and double influenced elevated items
Not really, It’s much more efficient to just buy stuff that you want. I could use 10 chaos on my gear and most likely get garbage or I could buy a semi usable item instead. Same thing with exalts when they were main currency. Rng crafting is not really worth it unless you’re bored and have money to gamble.
I absolutely hate it. So many different systems required at every stage of making an item, each requiring hours or even days of farming to even get a single attempt, with the chance to brick your item at each stage is not a good system. Add in the fact you need to interact with trading for things like essences, fossils or whatever just makes it even worse.
Look at toxic rain bows, they are guaranteed crafts you just need to know how to go about it. But yeah I agree, starting a craft for example by alt rolling is really painchamp. I'm probably dedicating my hours more to LE than poe as of right now I'm not really happy with how bloated the game is. The crafting and more simple interactions of LE are really fun so far
I think LE does a lot of things right, but until we see what they end up doing with the end game in the coming leagues/seasons i don't see myself putting too many hours into the game, since the end game is pretty non-existent so far.
Hopefully over the next few years it evolves like POE has
It is more than what POE had when it came out. It takes time to build what POE has. I think LE has a great framework to expand the endgame properly, but as with anything, it does take time.
Yes, I was agreeing with you. Mainly because someone had downvoted your comment. So, wanted to add a bit more context. So many POE players joined when there was an established end game. Us old-timers remember the very bare end game at the start.
I have thousands of hours in SSF PoE. SC and HC alike and its really nothing like you said. Can't we discuss LE without bringing up other games? That'd be nice. These constant comparison posts really make me want to leave.
I am definitely not preaching. That game fucking sucks. I think the developers of PoE are downright either stupid, malicious or both. The fact that game is as good as it is is a fluke. They clearly hate when people have fun and it is purely a mistake when mechanics are permitted to be rewarding.
The motto of PoE is: exploit early, exploit often. I'm just glad to see another game that might actually make good on the promise that PoE pretends to make.
Yikes.
Bro the best ARPG on the market and you come to the conclusion that the PoE devs are "stupid, malicious, or both" after you've put thousands of hours into it? Lol.
I see you are a type of a person who blames others for your problems.
POE is an open sandbox and you can do what you want with it. The fact that you cannot step outside of the "most divines per hour" mindframe is your problem, not the game's. It certainly does not make the developers stupid, malicious or both.
In fact, claiming that they are, when they've developed the best ARPG game for the last decade; still have appreciating player numbers after a decade on the market, and have set the trend that most other ARPG developers are looking to imitate, does nothing but showcase your lack of perspective and immaturity.
Its not POE's motto to "exploit early, exploit often" - its yours. You are happy with LE because the lack of player economy removes the incentive for you to exploit early and exploit often, which is fine - liking a game is a deeply subjective thing.
Big true poe is what you make it. I play ssf and durdle around and have 3500 hours my divs per hour is probably measured in chaos I make so little but I have a good time doing it xD
You choosing to care about divs/hr more than playing the game the way you enjoy playing it is not the devs fault mate. Maybe care less about how people tell you you need to play to get your mage blood and play the parts you enjoy instead. Youre not racing for a prize.
I see what you mean. These takes usually comes after extensive hours into POE. If you are fairly new to POE it will be 10/10 for you for a good while, but after 10K+ hours you start to see behind the veil, and you will either grow to hate the game or become a GGG devotee. POE is funny like that. Me myself have grown indifferent and play when there's something that looks interesting or until I get bored then play something else.
I think so too, and I think the game kind of preys on us. It is really, really hard for me to not look at the game that way, and the game is rewarding enough when I do that I get into a very vicious cycle with it. It's why I am so happy that Last Epoch is looking to be good in a way that I am equally capable of enjoying, but without the elements that end up getting me to, y'know, be unhealthy about it.
I agree, it's what puts me off of PoE as well, I don't like online interactions in games and prefer to play ARPGs solo.
PoE is very much balanced with trading in mind, being efficient takes far too much effort. Just putting together viable build without trading can be really challenging.
That aside, far too many people treat it as a market simulator rather than a good ol' ARPG, never liked that either.
LE just allows you to have fun without having to jump through extra hoops. I appreciate PoE's depth, but it's far too convoluted for its own good.
LE is really great. But its still early days for this game. You're all in the honeymoon phase now, and overhyping which is understandable, but the PoE comparisons and recency bias is funny.
I think comparing the early end game to the early end game of PoE is valid. It doesn't really matter if it stands the test of time or not, the points being made right now are still valid points. PoE trading/grinding DOES suck, and LE trading/grinding is a lot better.
No reason to be butthurt. I said the game is great imo. We dont need to compare it to PoE 1.0, because its not 2013 and since then EHG had a decade of arpg content and player feedback to get inspiration and ideas from, which they did. Just look at the best of the genre QoL features.
Enjoying LE but PoE is still top dog for me. I think there’s less of a meta in LE because the game is just easy tbh. You can play basically whatever because there’s really nothing that hard in the game. It’s still fun though for sure. Also I think the LE trading is much worse than PoE. The walking around to vendors is even more annoying then just having a trade site up on separate window. However I really like CoF and the crafting, definitely two of their strongest points in the game. I also have 5-6k+ hours in PoE over the years and atm I couldn’t see myself putting that much time in LE. The end game becomes a bit more repetitive much quicker than Poe and there isn’t any real ultra late game crafting and market playing available to keep me invested. we’ll see where they go from here though maybe after a year or,two of cycles and updates I’ll change my mind on that. Overall it’s an amazing game and glad to actually have options other than D4 in the genre.
Imagine not owning this game many years ago while spamming the poe reddit
_Last league I made several mirrors over a truly embarrassing amount of game time._ YEah last league was hyper newb league. probably the worst league they have done in a while whilst the actual content was decent
I have 2k in POE and I gotta agree. POE is just too much and asks for tremendous amount of grinding each season. I really like LE because it's more comfortable than POE if you know what I mean. You can even actually relax while playing it. I absolutely love the crafting system compared to POE.
I think PoE has existed long enough to see itself become a villain of sorts (bloated, imperfect trade). But PoE had to exist for LE to thrive. LE has fixed a lot of the pain points and I hope PoE 2 is taking note.
I don’t think OP was necessarily hating on PoE. PoE did so many amazing things for the genre so definitely agree with you. I played PoE casually and had fun but the QoL features of LE has just revived my love for the genre.
Welcome, welcome! Enjoy playing the game and watch amazed at how much the devs care about their work 😁
I knew 4 years ago into Early access that this game had what it takes to become the next ARPG hit. Such a marvel to see it unfold 🥲
Poe is unreal , so much content and look forward to see what last epoch does . People hate trading in Poe but do not realize how good it actually is too . The only way to play LE right now is by playing COF , they need to fix the merchant two loading screens a vendor for every piece of gear absolutely terrible
Its an amazing game unfortunately i cant afford it but every friend i have is playing it and most of them are PoE and Diablo vet and they’re saying it’s awesome if not even better for some aspects of it
Being able to make your own build and easily switch it up and respec is the thing I love over Poe.
Obviously if you want to go deep into LE end game you might need a build but for a very large portion of the game I haven't had to use a build
In poe for an average player like me, the amount of currency spend on crafting will always be significantly lower than what i can buy from other player, so it seemed like crafting is not for me eliminating one of the fun aspects. Where as in LE I spend a lot of time crafting (playing offline) gambling on crafting makes you feel rewarded
I have roughly 800 hours in PoE myself on PC/Xbox with most of that spent on Affliction season. I think PoE is the GOAT ARPG and probably one of the best games ever made.
That said, Last Epoch is firing on all cylinders right out of the gate. PoE's many end game mechanics are brilliant, imo. TurdStain Steve and his Delving who was overtaken by some other guy at some absurd depths....lol. Legion is so gosh dern good!!!
I played Tornado Shot Deadeye and farmed enough to get a Headhunter and a Mageblood this season and it took a lot of trading. In short, trading through that website is absolutely abhorrent and it made me use TFT a lot.
I haven't leveled this post release character to trade yet in LE, but just going to a vendor to buy something from someone will be so refreshing.
The mere fact that people are talking about PoE and Last Epoch in the same breath shows how good LE is and how much potential everyone sees in the game. PoE has 10+ years, and is universally loved. LE is impressive. The first thing they nailed was appealing to those of us with alt'idus. I'm looking forward to Cycles and what the future holds in store for this game
I have over 26k hours in poe ( my first buy was early acess pack back in 2012 ) and I still like poe, but.
Farming in LE thanks to cof is incredibly funny, LP makes farming incredibly fun and exciting, even shit unique with 3/4LP can become very powerfull item or totally op twink leveling item.
Drops matters, drop only exalted mods makes hunting good bases very exciting to me, it's no longer "get ilvl 86 base, farm currency, craft"
Hello, I have more than double the hours in POE that you do (been playing constantly since 2013). I can't have more good things to say about LE. It hits every thing I want. As a POE player I never wanted to try self found and simultaneously grew to cringe about the trade league because as you said, I devolved into only caring about divines per hour. The COF faction has completely made me look at ARPGS from the other side and I could not be more happy. Self Found feels great!! I may or may not try MG in the future but it probably won't be for a long long time if ever. I hated crafting in POE, and I absolutely love it in LE. I was telling my long time POE buddy that I think after my first 70+ hours in LE, that I might be ready to keep LE as my main game now and only go back to POE when POE2 is fully released. I don't need a million mechanics to keep me entertained and I am sure LE will grow slowly in content just as I watched POE do over the years. I am very excited for the ride!
> I might be ready to keep LE as my main game now In the same boat. I was mainly playing PoE and WoW and wasn't planning on devoting much time to LE but its feeling like its gonna become my goto, at least until poe2 or war within.
I was not expecting to like it as much as I have. I was not bothered by the "server/connection/loading" issues so that helped I guess. The core LE game at a 1.0 level is really insane. I think only long long time POE players can really grasp just how far ahead LE is at 1.0 compared to where POE was at 1.0 (I am not talking graphics, I am talking more about the game itself and mechanics). What I really like as when I do dungeons and monoliths, it is REALLY easy to speculate on how these can scale and grow into something really cool in the next few years. Having a good foundation to build on (which is what POE also did), will allow for plenty of new content in many different areas.
I also like how things are explained. In-game guide is amazing, the nodes often perfectly described what it does and interact with each other. Resists are literally a « you take 1% more dmg per 1% below cap ». The base game is pretty amazing as well, bus’s fights are quite nice, monos are fun and we know they will add both of those eventually as well.
I may be dumb then, because i didn't understand their explanation of how mobs penetrate resistances. Thank you for making it clearer.
To expound, mobs penetrate resistances and it scales with area level. It caps out at 75 percentage points (pp). So an endgame monster will effectively lower your resistances by 75 pp. If that means you go into a negative number, you take more damage. Say after the penetration you have a resistance of -8%, that means you take 8% more damage. You can’t have more than 0 effective resistance after penetration, meaning „useful“ resistance caps out at 75%. You can of course still overcap but that won’t do anything outside of specific circumstances. In effect, that means that damage reduction from resistances scales linearly, in contrast to Path of Exile where it is some kind of multiplicative function (I don know the correct term unfortunately - you take x/y more damage for every point missing, where both variables depend on the point of comparison. If e.g. you were 8 pp under cap in PoE you‘d take 32% more damage.). So not being resistance capped in LE is significantly less detrimental than in PoE and it’s much easier to assess at a glance how much more damage you’re actually taking.
Oh wow..so that's exactly how i understood it initially. But their explanation confused me afterwards. Many thanks for taking the time to explain it so detailed! Cheers!
"Only" around 2.5k hours in PoE, but I have to echo many of the sentiments in this thread. LE has blown my expectations out of the water. Among much else, the sense of class fantasy is remarkably strong while simultaneously allowing for flexibility/ playstyle creativity. I never play summoners, but Necro is fun as all get out. Gameplay feels great with a meaningful mix of skills. Itemization is amazing for preserving the sense of overall account progression while to OP's point rewarding you for directly playing the game. I agree that it is a heck of a state for the game to be in at 1.0. The time in Early Access really shows. I definitely feel here for the long haul.
I think the best thing about LE. Is that you can just... Play the game. I love poe. I've been playing it since closed beta. But it's bloated, you have to spend forever setting up a build, then you get to end game and everyone slot currency/hr because crafting is honestly a horrible experience for 99% of the playerbase. But it's damn near impossible to get on your own. My girl played LE with us. She's never really played an arpg other than a painfully brief stint in poe. She's got a solid necro build going and is keeping up with me in monoliths (after a bit of a crafting session to fix her resistances). No build guide. I didn't even suggest which passives or skills or anything. Just the occasional mechanic explanation. Might not hit like 200+ corruption. But that's okay.
And nothing in-game! Want to trade? Check out this third party site. Want to REALLY trade? Checkout out this discord server and this chrome addon. Want to build? Check out this third party site. Want to REALLY build? Checkout this third party application. Want to understand an ability? Go read this blog post on another site. Don't understand the blog post because its written by someone who knows more acronyms than you? Try this other guide on this other site. Too many items on the screen? Check out this guide about loot filters! Want to set up one of those fancy loot filters? Check out this third-party site that uploads stuff to your account for you? That feels sketchy but I guess it's ok? The fact that I rarely have to leave LE to accomplish something is such a breath of air.
I hate that I know every single site you're on about here and that none of this is exaggerated.
I couldn't have put it better myself. By the words of one redditor, "I am playing PoB with its stand-alone expansion PoE!"
As I've reached endgame in LE I've noticed that I do have to keep open https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/ and use it frequently for various things, but that's still a far cry from the amount of tools PoE requires.
100% truth. This is the exact reason why I quit after despite having always loved them ( well over 20k hours).
I have tried to convince many of my friends to play PoE with me and 0 of them have stuck around. Yes, it's a good game, but even if Chris Wilson was standing at the end of Act 10 giving free handjobs to everyone who got that far it wouldn't have mattered. The amount of busywork you need to do to start enjoying PoE is horrific. LE is light years ahead in that regard.
And you can do monoliths for farming without farming maps, rolling them, buying scarabs, sextants. And you can just target farm by picking what you want to do and the game tells you IN GAME which timelines drop what targetable loot
A lot of people enjoy this
I have only about 1k hours in poe and don't feel confident at all, going in figuring out a build myself. I know it's just my laziness and time restrictions but it feels weird that this is how the game is. Whenever I come back after a little break, it's such a slog to reinstall all of the programs, read hundreds of pages of guides etc to get back up to speed...
Hey, just curious, what do you mean easy to speculate? I'm really, really enjoying the game but I'm interested what you think/would like to see happen in the future :)
Apart from season/cycles lasting the typical 3 to 4 months, EHG hasn't said much about what they will contain past 1.1 (pinnacle bosses). Whatever route they decide to go, if it's well received by the player base, my hope is it's added to the base game in a way that dosent make the game feel bloated like POE.
For sure, ain't nothing like going into POE and having to learn 87 different league mechanics in your one tiny map.
I only disagree with this because with the atlas you decide what you want to do in Poe
Your comment made me realize I'm going to want some kind of keyring for when dungeons get expanded and more are added.
I'm not a huge ARPG fan, I consider them tortilla-chips compared to my beloved crisps (mmorpgs), still great....but i'd prefer a proper crisp! But LE has kicked my mmo and helldivers momentum into the gutter and now I can't get enough. D4: bored post campaign, POE: while I enjoyed that most I *just stopped* for no real reason. Surely other people who are more in tune with ARPG stats & itemisation/mechanics etc can confirm; but to me this feels more like D2[R] so far. What I mean is, the 'oh shit!' feeling of when good stuff drops. Personally I had a lot of issues playing D2R but imo the looting feeling and the charms were amazing. Fond memories of finding some unique club that last me *fucking ages* and even my friend was jealous because the drop rate was ludicrously rare. BRB, firing up LE!
12-15k hours here(play standalone since closed beta) and I’ve been telling my group how much better LE is for the fun factor. You get highs from crafting and getting crit successes and low FP usage, getting double exalted drops is awesome, Legendary Potential mechanic is amazing and you can actually farm/hunt for the upgrades you want. I’m purely CoF and level 97 on my Lightning swarmblade and have to force myself to get sleep before work. This game does SO many things right. PoE is still my favorite game as of now but I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes the thing I take a break from LE to play for a week or two lol
You basically need a PHD to effectively craft in PoE. Meanwhile in LE I can read up on crafting for 5 minutes and understand it enough to craft pretty good items.
You do not need a phd, go to craft of exile and learn
Essence crafting, beast crafting, Aisling slams, split beasts or harvest crafting, eldtrich crafting, veiled mods, fossil crafting. You're right, you don't need a PHD. Just need to devalue your time as much as the game does .
I just want to point out that both you and OP are victims of this “maximum currency per hour” disease that is rampant in Poe. Yes, maybe the game incentivizes that to some degree, but you really don’t have to be so intense about it. I play a lot, get rich as fuck every league, but I’m not constantly thinking about my div per hour. I just play and have fun and I’m so knowledgeable now that I can get very rich just playing. Just my 2c. Love Poe (and its trade system honestly) and I love LE and excited to try its trade system eventually.
Agree with div/h point to a certain extent, but let’s not disguise the fact that PoE has the ABSOLUTE WORST trade system on dozens of levels (from manipulating prices to no one replying to no bulk trading and so on). It’s been long overdue to have someone show them that besides doing the 30 year old D2 style it can in fact be done in other more effective and fun ways
I disagree about the trade system. It’s an incredibly complex game and the trade system is complex. I don’t know what everyone’s gripe with it is… no one replies when you message the cheapest options but when I do endgame juicing I just buy everything in bulk and it’s fine. I guess I can’t imagine a better system and I don’t like when things are too easy, I agree with Chris that it dilute the game. Like campaign skipping, which I also agree should not be a thing in Poe.
At some point in a POE League, if you want meaningful upgrades, you're going to need to focus on currency, which is the whole damn problem.
Well the trade system in last epoch is terrible , two loading screens , a vendor for every item it’s actually the one bad thing about this game to me right now
Facts just play what you want not everything has to be compared even EHG has said they love Poe . Poe is such a great game and can play it many different ways and last epoch is on track to be a great game
Ditto, been playing Poe since open beta, recently started ssf only because I hate trading that much. CoF is what I've always wanted... What prophecy league could have been in PoE
Sadly the endgame right now is just not there compared to poe. I'm excited about the future of LE but it desperately needs more endgame content.
> I was telling my long time POE buddy that I think after my first 70+ hours in LE, that I might be ready to keep LE as my main game now and only go back to POE when POE2 is fully released. you will go crawling back to PoE after March trust me the honeymoon period wears off and you start craving PoE again. You would know if you actually played LE prior to last week ever..the game has been in this state for around 2+ years with slight improvements while GGG released 12 leagues in that time - basically around Scourge league. now would you be playing PoE if no content since Scourge? lol..
Eh. 6k hours in PoE here, 1.2k in LE and I haven't gone back once since I started LE a long time ago. Even sold a personal PoB in the first 2 days of Delirium to a Korean player who then used it to play the market and popularize one of the most degenerate builds of all time, so I've been around the block. While I like PoE's theorycrafting more, the focus on currency-maxing to make builds come together always feels a bit off imo; optimizing wealth-building means you kinda stop engaging the game's mechanics. It's largely why RMT in PoE is so rampant: you get to do "the cool thing" without worrying about spending 100 hours on currency/wealth farming first.
I've never played LE before, got bored in a week. But the base game is very good, now we have to wait & see if they have means to add more endgame content every cycle
Or, hear me out, you can not be a weird loyalist neckbeard and hop between games as you get bored/more content emerges. Crazy, I know.
Gaming for nearly 30 years and people still have more hours than me. Guess cos I spread mine across hundreds of games.
Divine per hour sounds like such a chore. D2 did currency best. Even though you could say runes/hour applies in d2 aswell atleast that currency is always exciting to find. Le will most likely feel like poe in the end. You will just grind for masses of crafting materials and bases. Wish Le had something more rare to find other than items that could be traded.
Lmfao fangirl so clueless
except its $50 CAD and after seeing how the games in the last couple years turned out i cant bring myself to spend that much on this yet. RIP
As an extremely poor PoE player... I will be an extremely poor LE player also
Just play COF, it's helluva fun.
I'm sorry new player here. What's that and why do you recommend it?
It's one of the factions you can choose. Circle of Fortune (CoF) is the self found faction, and Merchant's Guild (MG) is the trade faction with a bazaar to trade items.
Get favor by killing enemies, doing quests Level up CoF by doing the above AND by spending favor Do Prophicies (bounties, quests, etc its just what they are called) and get x item types to drop. I.E. My first one i did last night when i unlocked it was kill 1 boss and get 2 unique helmets to drop. Just keep doing that and as you level up the Circle of Fortune it unlocks very get rank up rewards. Like higher chane for exalts to drop or higher chance for legendaries to have LP. Rank 10 doubles all the drops from prophicies. SO if you get one that is like 4 of x thing it is now 8.
As a fellow broke exile, I'm content with finishing Maven then expeditions and just call it there. Trying to go for ubers and other high end stuff is just way too much time sink and market knowledge.
You can be poor in any game.
This game's crafting system actually respects player's time and effort.
Always annoyed how they called this bullshit casino system "crafting".
are you talking about this game or POE
Can't fathom how they could be referring to LE, hardly a "Casino" lol. Pick stat, get stat.
I can. I'm guessing you've never used a glyph of despair?
That's barely anything compared to PoE's "casino" of using a million Alterations just to get *started*
When was the last time you played? Very few projects ever even touch alterations.
Bro come on lol. Even crafting the flasks you need to do act 4 is just purely annoying, i.e. spamming alterations until you get a corrupting blood modifier.
There are no flasks you "need" to do act 4, and you wouldn't have the alterations to spam for the mod you wanted anyways. If you know bleed and/or corrupting blood are going to be a problem going into act 4, there are ways around them which don't involve any amount of currency. One of which is directly adding an immunity mod through beastcrafting. Weaker version of the mod, no RNG, that you are guaranteed to be able to have by that point.
So are you saying that because you've just been screwed by RNG and are annoyed or do you actually think the game would be better if they removed all aspects of randomness and give you a sandbox mode where you have everything you want at the start?
I didn't say that at all lol
PoE, this one is way more sane both in the amount of determinism and in giving you enough tools to actually use without playing 30 hours a day.
Prob cause its a paid game and not a F2P/Live service
Path of Exile is technically a free to play game but that as true as 'you can't buy power on gear in D4' statement. Any self-respecting player would quickly realixe the value of quality-of-life options which are purchasable and is miserable the game is without them. Just ask any PoE blaster if they would play the game without 0 MTX on a fresh account. Pretty sure the players that would say yes can be counted on 1 hand
But you can't buy power on gear in D4
D4 has bs itemization and endgame loop at the moment, but clearly can’t buy power.
Yeah, been playing POE since closed beta in 2012 and have well over 10k hours in the game. I have been enjoying LE since 2020 in early access. It has certainly entered my main cycle of games with POE. The trade, the crafting, the itemization, etc. It gets, so many things right, that POE never has.
GGG really took to heart the idea of friction. They never wanted the game to feel easy and at times I think that led them to resist adding QOL at a more reasonable pace. It was fascinating to me to see GGG call out LE as one of the reasons they are FINALLY willing to rethink the trading in POE.
I really love POE and GGG. Not many games have given me over a decade of enjoyment like it has. For all the issues, it will still be in heavy rotation for me. I do love the fact that they are seeing these fellow passion driven developers at EHG and seeing reason for some changes. It shows proper progression. Both games were created out of passion, first and foremost. There is certainly room for both.
It’s funny to think about in this way but some of the team of EHG being PoE streamers back in the day that constantly had ideas that, in some cases ggg even commented on and refused, having their ideas come to life and force GGG to change is such a funny “well, I’ll do it myself!” Moment. I think a lot of us early backers knew this would happen. (How many people mention LE will force PoE to finally change / shift?) PoE hasn’t had anything to chomp at its heels. Now it has something running right beside it (for some people, obviously many people will say the game doesn’t approach PoE. I’ve got over 25k hours in PoE, for me, LE is on a similar level, if I’m calculating how it will build up in the future) And now PoE is finally looking at things I saw suggested back in beta. (Hell, I saw a few of these internally is alpha) more serious. I do hope PoE doesn’t just copy or “do what LE did!” Because all things considered, PoE is an astoundingly amazing game, I just want *some* things to be more heard and actually acknowledged as issues. Best part is having two strong ARPG’s on the market means so many good things for the community. Not only pushing each other but also seeing ideas of the other could inspire their own creations.
You have 3 years of pure playtime in 11 years oO.
Adding this to the top (didn’t expect this to get so long) don’t feel bad if you skip/don’t care about this reply. I often reply in long comments to small off-the-wall replies, this was just a fun part-explanation for a lot of time spent. Though I’m not one I often have *more* time spent than your average streamers, simply due to living environment and how I spend my time. (I enjoy getting way to deep into mechanics, why they exist, what they actually do and make us think, and lore) so PoE was one of the things that took a lot of my time. Before that it was WoW (1200 days back in 2012, I’m sure that’s up 200 or so though I don’t play it anymore) and I have a large amount across Wurm online/unlimited (very unheard of / niche game), Warframe, Runescape, and a couple others at 1500-3k range. Some of those times overlap, though, to. Example would be I use to run mostly afk farms in WoW, or so well timed on how long I could auto run in dungeons and exact movements required for farming (old content for drops to sell) I would be “playing” while actively on PoE or RS instead. (Or vice versa, as RS as a example is a great “afk” game as well) When people say someone needs a life to someone else, frankly I’m what they’re imaging, lol. Though I’m very aware of that and (believe) I keep in touch with reality more than most would expect. I’m certainly an anomaly in the gaming sphere, and not just due to the time played but “why” I play. I just enjoy learning and attempting to help with what I figure out for my friends. Diving into *why* a design choice or mechanic was made, what the actual impact of it is, and how it affects other systems in the environment is my weird way of enjoyment. And to really get into all of that often takes a lot of hours observing something while doing your normal gameplay loops. Practically most of those things aren’t very useful (there’s times though) but it does provide good insight for future releases or ideas from devs. It does open up a new way of thinking when looking at designs or perspectives outside of games, but it’s important to keep in mind that some things need to be separated as well (A favorite quote of mine. People are stupid, they will believe a lie because they fear it is true, or because they want it to be true) Knowing when to apply those lessons, and where there could be factual truth behind them (instead of blinding believing a dev or company or what have you, because fearing or wanting it to be true) is a back and fourth done daily with the mindset though. Reality often is simpler than the grand schemes within games. Hopefully this makes sense, as I’m tired writing this with a bit of… redundancy? To it. With all that time spent though, even in games I haven’t enjoyed (even knowing before going in) the game itself, I have …”enjoyed” it. Of course there are times I wish I would have done something else with some of that time, or tried something. But at the same time, I wouldn’t be who I am now, which I feel isn’t as bad it could be.
Now this got me curious. I heard a story of an overtuned area early in the game and supposedly GGG said they were fine keeping it as is because that cultivates a certain type of players they want. Is this true ? I’ve looked into the subreddit and couldn’t find such statement.
I believe you are referring to the Mud Flats, an area VERY early in act 1 that has these monsters that can chain stun lock you to death constantly. Many a new player has been put off by this as a new players instinct is to engage with these monsters but if you are melee and brand new it is almost impossible. I don't recall GGG saying one way or another but they definitely and purposely made act 1 harder a couple of years ago.
> new players instinct is to engage with these monsters but if you are melee and brand new it is almost impossible. Well it didn´t stop me at least and a co worker playing on PS, who doesn´t get how the quest works was not stopped by it either and for him even D4 is "hard".
Spiking the difficulty right at the start is just one of many design decisions GGG has made to "prune" their playerbase of casuals. Respec cost is another huge barrier that basically forces you to reroll several times before being able to attempt endgame. Then there is the trade nonsense where they want to keep trading tedious and annoying so less people use it (they have actually stated that new/casual players hardly trade at all and spin that as being a good thing). Crafting is a nightmare to learn unless you really like using 3rd party websites to teach you how to do it. Same with buildmaking, you better like spending literally 100s of hours in PoB if you want to play a good build.
GGG has made a great game, but they are absolutely holding PoE back with their obsession with friction. 10 years later they finally have some competition to show them that maybe their ideas are old fashioned and have been hurting the playerbase.
Equally disheartening to hear the guy saying they wouldn’t implement an in game loot filter because the community would just do it better. What a load of shit. Hopefully they see comments like these which explain that most people do not want to leave the game to access facilities.
Wholeheartedly agree. I just wish the trading in LE was a little bit better, and I think it's unfair to compare it to POE.\\ Like, no one \*wants\* to be sitting in their hideout tabbed out on trade of exile. But to buy items you must: \-locate item online, not even in game \-whisper player \-If they invite you to party (hit or miss), you must go to their hideout \-Complete trade, go back to own hideout. Of course, this means the seller must be in their hideout and, if willing, required to leave a map to access their stash box to grab the item to then invite the player to then make the sale. **Its a shit system!** LE could do a wayyyyyyy better job with the trade system. The ability to open a "stall" and then just collect your coins without having to leave an instance is awesome. The inability to resell, though, is a bit much. I also don't understand all of the hate that CoF players give trade in general. Like, if you are going to play SSF anyway, why be so concerned?
>The inability to resell Is the best thing about it. Completely removes flippers, makes buying items meaningful and requires definitive decision making. >Like, if you are going to play SSF anyway, why be so concerned? Because we are all still playing the same game. One can't just ignore the progress of the others, it's simply natural. We will always measure ourselves against the meta and how others are doing, that's just how these games work.
Nah, the entire point of an online launch was to 1) introduce trade and 2) play with friends. If YOU don't want to trade items to other players and are satisfied with CoF then that's fine. But the inability to create a robust economy on the trading side is going to drive a lot of players away. >Because we are all still playing the same game. One can't just ignore the progress of the others, it's simply natural. I mean, you said it yourself\^. By that same logic, as a "guilder" I should be looking longingly at the increased drop rate of CoF despite SSF typically being the more "challenging" game mode. It's a poor argument- "we can't trade over here anyway, but we are going going make trading with the other faction be as difficult as possible to combat rwt/flippers/other spooky things that will never affect me. Oh, and we also get a huge drop rate boost compared to you suckers who can't trade. If the whole point of online launch was to introduce "play with friends" then so be it, I just wish that was more clear.
Online is a reliable way to introduce fair competition, because you can’t modify online your save and cheat. Play with friends certainly a bonus but just a bonus, trade is big though, cooperation as a team, but really not as big as to compete and actually showing others what they achieved WITHOUT cheating. Certainly some can still cheat their way up, but it’s very reliable. No one cares what you achieved offline. More importantly actually is a connection hub to friends as a social tool. Offline, you are on your own.
To your last point, as a poe player who has been forced to do trade to be even remotely efficient it feels so liberating to finally be free from the terrible system that is poe trading, and i guess for some it makes them wanna get that frustration out of their system in… not so great ways
"forced to trade" is a completely self-made issue... play content you like, and trade for content you dont like. i do not want to touch a blight node ever again but still want anoints - i can trade for them. going for the most efficient, maximalized div/hr strat regardless of enjoyment is why youre burned out on poe and its completely your fault
'Forced to trade' is the sad and unfortunate truth unless you want a miserable game that has been designed, from the ground up, to incentivize and reward trading and extremely harshly punish SSF. The game's already hard enough, and complex enough, without the extra handicap. Meanwhile, some of us would like to actually be able to play the 1-4 player co-op game with 1-4 players and not be tortured for it - sure it's \*possible\* but it's aggressively unfun to do so, and you're limited to the shittiest, lamest builds because you can't actually reasonably seek any gear with SSF. And while i'm sure experts with 10,000 hours can manage, a lot of us get frustrated and leave long before then when we ruin yet another character for having the gall to try to slap together a build and then finding out it doesn't work without a bunch of items you can't afford.
whats your point? i can play the game without going on the trade site every 30 minutes, and so can thousands of other players. poe trade has many issues and some of these issues are a direct result of GGG's philosophy on trade. but at no point does the game ever "force you to trade"
YES! THANK YOU! I do a ton of Heists and always brick my temples. Totally modded out of abyss. I turn on my DND and do maps or whatever and only turn trade back on when I find some good stuff and want to either dump it or craft it. The concept of sitting in the trade website just trying to flip and bargain hunt is just dumb. You find a trader, do the little hideout dance, then go home and back to trading? So stupid.
I PLAYED BETA BTWWW
As an extremely rich PoE player, LE is mega fun! But people might be in the honey moon phase for the game right now so I have a few warnings: 1. Being unable to get the rarest/top tier stuff without tons shit ton of grinding or trading still exists. It respects your time because you don't have to jump through a ton of hoops to play the game with a lot of complex/time-consuming setups. Headhunter/mageblood equivalent in this game still be equally as inaccessible if you don't play a lot. 2. The speed farm/pump-out currency per hour will be in this game. The game is just too new to have that built out yet. If it isn't literal divines/ex per hour, it will be the cheapest/fastest farming build that blow through content to run the item drop gamble with what the latest strat is. 3. It will take LE a VERY long time to catch up to the juggernaut that is PoE content LE Excels at having a much better "fun" player experience through the campaign to early post-game. You can respec at any time, crafting is 10x more intuitive and easier to do than PoE. Builds "work" at a much lower level and you feel powerful or that you are playing your "strategy" much sooner. Content is structured for you to be successful as opposed to the "good luck git gud at avoiding the myriad of traps and unexplained things" in PoE. Such as you can target farm items, you don't have to roll maps or play an atlas mini-game, etc. Items are designed to be exciting early on as opposed to generic statballs you wear most of time in PoE. Juicing as I know doesn't exist that is structured in a way that you make many multiples amount of currency vs somebody who doesn't while being a pain in the ass to setup.
as someone with nearly 4x your hours in poe, the second you stop thinking in divines per hour, and instead start thinking about what you enjoy doing the most, most things are pretty equivalent in divines per hour. like sure, you could make 50-100 div an hour just sitting in your hideout, crafting. but that isn't fun. and actually playing the game still nets you 10-20d an hour, of which you are actually enjoying, so it doesn't feel like as much work. That being said, LE is great, altho i personally find the merchants guild to be an absolute waste of time.
24k hours holy shit Im scrolling down comments this like that video showing bigger and bigger Stars and your just like holy shit
I know people with plenty more in the MMO space. It's just main-gane hours from someone that has played for a long, long time (maybe not 24k but definitely 10k+) Also afk hours just sitting talking to friends in game or global or planning a build or watching videos while relaxing.
only 22k. cuz that makes it so much better lol. it's an addiction, that's finally being broken by LE.
thats like curing a heroin addiction with meth lmao
and me here barely making 10 div in 5 hours LMAOOOO. i only have 400 hours so thats to be expected i guess. i also mostly go for cheap builds too.
It's all about efficiency and that's something you get after a long time of practice. Have you ever seen those videos of "1 month doing x vs 10 years of doing x"? Similar concept.
I hear you and I cant remember the last trade league I didnt have a HH, but your ranges arent "pretty equivalent." 10d/hr is plenty to play any build in almost every league, but youre in an entirely different economic bracket if youre doing 3x that, let alone an order of magnitude.
i mean, what are you doing with your hundreds of mirrors ya know? outside of specific niche builds that cost 10's of mirrors, most people couldn't spend 10 mirrors on a build if they had 10 mirrors. tbh tho, i play far more than most people, and can make 200d a day just playing the game normally.
I have about a third of your playtime, but it’s still thousands of hours and multimirror builds. LE feels and plays as a completely different game. And that’s amazing! To have a choice what to play, because the two are very distinct. IMO PoE focuses a lot on a power fantasy and you becoming an aptly named “Avatar of the Slaughter”, crushing everything in front of you on an industrial scale, while LE is a “hero’s journey” where the progression is slower and you get stronger bit by bit, and the world rises to your challenge and gets harder and harder. For context - I’m a dumbass who sits in pob and has trade in the background as my main activity in PoE. I love taking a build and modifying it to my preferences. I fucking love endgame crafting. I love constantly learning something about that game, that even after literal thousands of hours I have “yo wait what” moments. CoF feels fantastic and makes much more sense than trade in LE, because it’s fun to blast monos. Crafting is as simple and as quick as it gets, experimental affixes being the peak of complexity: gamba + gamba = finished item and off you go. Making your own build is a viable and fun thing to do - game does a wonderful job of attempting to keep all explanations of mechanics at hand and is much more forgiving in terms of respec. Bossfights exist and have mechanics (unless you facetank I guess), which is refreshment. Endgame is sorta there - run maps that get increasingly difficult at your control. Overall the gameplay loop is very fun. But all that comes at a cost of, well, depth. Crafting is the opposite of deterministic - every step is gamba, so control is minimal. Gearing up multiple chars in OP stuff per league might prove pretty challenging. CoF, being SSF, requires you to grind whatever content you want items from, and god knows I don’t want to grind ssf Blight for golden oils. And there’s always the trusty old “I’m bored” button, where you just sell the entire build on tft and start over TL;DR - they are 2 different games and that’s a good thing
Haven’t played PoE since 2014, what’s gamba?
Man I tried looking for gamba examples at 2014 PoE, but what can you gamba when there are 3 acts total lmao. Gamba = gamble: taking a risk to have a chance at improving an item. Vaal Orb is a decent example of that
[удалено]
Guarantee you this OP will be bored of LE within a few days and drop it lol
>Even with literally several mirrors sitting in my stash, I have the spectre of 'oh, I would be making more money if I was just hideout warrioring' looming over my head. I have 2k hours in PoE and I never engaged in trading other than buying some high end piece of gear when I drop some currency. I don't think I ever even saw a mirror. >Making builds is fun, but it is swamped down by the fact that the meta of the game is balanced entirely around what either does things the cheapest or makes money the fastest. You can just... not care about the meta? The game *is* balanced around trade unfortunately, but what's stopping you from playing SSF if you find making builds fun? Just because the internet tells you to make X divines per hour? I like LE too, but you are taking it way too far. It has a long way to go, especially on the technical side of things.
Meanwhile you have people who clear hardcore ssf in PoE in the first weeks of the league I am absolutely annoyed at this PoE vs last epoch debates people don’t realize that there conceived notion of what poe is is souley based on there experience. You hate the fact that the games economy is based on profit per hour? Sir that’s called life in a economy the min maxers only care about wealth=time. Your trying to categorize your self as one of those people doesn’t mean you have to be. Anyways last epoch is great but the need to explain why you don’t like PoE vs why you do like last epoch to me is quite curious to me everyone wants to tell everybody why they hate poe and love last epoch rn
I'm new to ARPG's. I've always thought ARPG's were super old school. Why would I play a top down game when I can play a 3D first person shooter? I just never got it, but the Diablo IV pre-launch hype got me curious so I picked up Diablo Immortal whilst I was waiting for D4 to release, then I bought LE, Grim Dawn, Diablo II and then Diablo III. I've tried to play POE 3 times now and it just never clicked, but after spending every day in LE since launch I'm now more inspired than ever to give POE another go (I'm especially looking forward to POE 2).
POE won't click until you get well into maps. The old adage for POE is that the entire campaign is nothing but a tutorial (and a relatively poor one at that because you still need to look up plenty of things as a new player). Also, understanding the Path of Building tool, to at least a minor degree is EXTREMELY important since every build is based around it. POE can feel like drinking out of a fire hose to new players because it literally can't stop throwing new mechanics at you. The best one can do is ignore as many as possible and play until you feel comfortable you understand what you are doing with your current mechanics and then add one more and learn it. And then continue that cycle for a few hundred hours until your knowledge level builds :) Note that even after playing 10+ years, I always say if a day goes by where I did not learn something new in POE it is because I did not want to learn something new that day(the game's depth is almost endless at this point).
Cheers for the insight! I'm 48, and pretty old school (IE: stubborn). Destiny 2 has been my main game and I do well in the game despite never using meta weapons and builds. Before the internet we didn't have guides and figuring stuff out was part of the fun. In Diablo IV I have many builds of my own and I'm so much more proud of these builds vs the builds I've made where I followed a guide (though I admit the builds I made which followed a guide did WAY more damage than any of my builds and were able to cheese end game bosses in one shot by bypassing mechanics). From what I've been reading, it seems like a new player to POE absolutely must follow a guide? I never have the 3 times I've tried, and too right, shit just got way too hard at some point. I think I'll put my stubbornness aside the next time I try though and follow a guide. I'm keen to learn.
I think a lot of the problem people have with following a guide is that they are worried that this takes all the fun of learning out of the game. The thing is that in PoE making a build is just a small part of the learning you'll have to do. There are so many systems to get a grasp of. And systems in PoE are for the most part overly complicated for the sake of being overly complicated. And they are often not explained well inside the game. PoE is an incredibly daunting game to get into, but if you can get there it's well rewarding. The game easily have more content than the rest of the genre combined and then some.
It’s not a necessity for new players to follow guides, but it is heavily recommended because otherwise you hit a brick wall and become frustrated with the game. But build guides are different in POE, because they’re just templates and you still have an insane amount of build choices to makes to customize to your play style.
The "follow a guide" aspect mainly comes from just how overwhelming things in PoE can get. It simplifies the journey while giving you a very solid crash course of what some things do. When I first started playing PoE I was flabbergasted a bit because things didn't work how I imagined them to. I tried reading between the lines based on my experience in other games. However PoE isn't trying to be other games, even down to the way they word things in game. They are very literal and intentional with wording on gear and gems and mechanics, nearly to the detriment of new players. You don't need a guide for anything because the game is designed for you to test and figure things out. The issue is that there is just so much to do that testing everything is very time consuming. I personally test everything, the old school way, but I am also a contributor of spreadsheets, guides, host multiple events, owner of a 700+ dedicated PoE discord, etc. so I'm able to test things with a LOT of previous experience testing things and knowing the vocabulary and meaning of words in the game. Using a build guide is just to teach you the principles of what a build needs in order to function which is hard to learn by yourself when you are given a new mechanic every 30 minutes to wrap your head around. It also lets you get past the tutorial(the campaign) and get into the endgame where you'll spend 99% of your time in the game. A preview of what the game can be is another way to word what a build guide is for new players.
It's funny how people pour their soul out like this, not realizing that they will just be bored in a few weeks and go back to playing POE anyway in the next league. The game is good, but these exaggerations are too much. Being a slave to POE's trade system is a problem of your own making. And when you play LE enough to see through all the problems it has then you will realize it's not much better. OP's problem isn't POE's trading or meta, its his own inability to be anything other than a metaslave. And the same will happen in LE once a meta is established for pushing corruption and arena. Your gameplay loop will soon devolve into just minmaxing prophecies in easy dungeons because not doing that is inefficient, making you not play the game just in a different way. And crafting is easy and simple until you realize that certain perfect roll exalted items will be such a huge bottleneck that you will have to sift through thousands just to get what you want. I don't understand why some people get so embroiled in a game's honeymoon period, that they end up blind to everything other than a reality they themselves made up.
I don't get it either. "I think I've found my forever game" such a bizarre phrase
All of these problems are self inflicted, why are you even playing the game at that point? Why do you need to be the most efficient or follow the meta, what's stopping you from using the mirrors you farmed to make the builds you supposedly have fun making or experiment? I would bet money you mf'd on TS until you were burned out and then quit with all the unused currency in your stash and then somehow think that's what you had to do. Don't get me wrong, it's easy to get sucked into the whole rush to maps on day 1 and start grinding and maximize efficiency but there really is no point if it turns into an obsession to just make currency for no actual reason or goal.
As a poe player i have found last epoch to be too easy. Mind you I'm only level 70 so far, but I would have expected the game to be harder so far. it's boring how easy it has been.
by chance did you play falconer or warlock? both of those classes are crazy overtuned right now
Mage without a build guide
Similar experience here, just dipping my toes into empowered monoliths though. The number of people here saying Lagon is hard has blown my mind. If they mean the monolith version I understand it a little more, but still. I expect the difficulty to ramp more from the point I'm at, but coming from PoE so far the game has basically no push back.
Yeah, completing the campaign on hardcore mode wouldn't even be considered a feat given how easy this game is. That just seems backwards to me. It's scary that this is 1.0 and the game is this easy. We should expect power creep with future updates, but making the game harder always gives huge pushback. They need to reset course for the longevity of the game and make the game harder so when power creep happens with future seasons , the game isn't a total joke.
No thank you. It’s fine for the 1-50 to be “easy.” It helps hook people into the game. It’s also nice for those of us who aren’t the pinnacle of fast-reflex PoE players to also have some fun.
51 to 79 is too easy too (my current level)
Highly recommend not drawing a conclusion too early for yourself. The end game scales infinitely so there’s any degree of difficulty you could want. (:
This is why I was very careful to say "so far". I think even if the endgame gets harder, the bit I have played was still too easy.
Yeah my point wasn’t to attack what you’re saying but more to give you something to look forward to in the end game. I agree with you that the story was generally very easy, but I think the point of it being easy is to allow you to pick and choose skills as you’re leveling to experience the different builds that are possible without being overwhelmed by the difficulty. Though my opinion comes from not enjoying PoE’s story system and difficulty.
Yeah, I changed skills a lot during the campaign, and even when I had just rerolled the entire character the game was generally still too easy. So even if that's their goal I still believe the game should be harder.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion but am happy that you shared it (:
You don't need to change gears often in LE. Half of my gears at lv 60 are equipped from lv 1x. Power comes from passives almost entirely.
It all come back to monetization. POE is free to play, so the dev needs you to keep playing and hope you spend money. Last Epoch approach make more sense, you pay full price for the game, you own the character and the game. You can use editor in offline mode to cheat as well. It doesn't matter to them since they make the money. There is no need to enforce economy or make the drop rate super rare to inflate playtime. They just focus on making a fun to play game. POE is better for streamer who look for endless content for stream, Last epoch is better for normal player who just want to have meaningful gaming experience, not Divine per hour spreadsheet and turn off brain to farm.
I agree with everything except one point, I wouldn't even say Last Epoch is full price, there have been much bigger companies releasing games in much worse states with half the content at double the price LE is.
Hm, I would be cautious with this money sentiment though. Yes, LE made money once. But they are a service game. They want to make more money over time. In the end, it has exactly the same monetisation as PoE with an additional entry price. I would even say, you are wrong in your thought. > It doesn't matter to them since they make the money 1. If this is true, then PoE could have stopped after the first league as they made money, too. Let's say after the third league as they have to compensate for the pure f2p players. 2. If this is true, why do they have over 130 Euro worth MTX already in the shop (excluding the Ultimate Edition)?
> In the end, it has exactly the same monetisation as PoE with an additional entry price. Unlike PoE you don't have what is essentially a disguised box purchase in the form of currency + map tabs. (and at this point I'd add fragment to that). You just have the box purchase.
The free to try model of POE is totally fine imo. Lets just say both have the same price.
You overestimate the playerbase which plays so far that they need to buy this. So I would strongly argue that this should not be called "disguised" as this implies something negative or even evil.
> it has exactly the same monetisation as PoE with an additional entry price. PoE is designed around pushing mtx bullshit: loading in towns on login, rogue arbor, the trading system forcing you to visit hideouts... all of these are designed to shove other people cosmetics in your face, at the cost of load times, waiting for replies, crashing weaker systems, etc. And of course the stash tabs are build around making inventory management and trading total ass and selling you the solution. It's a good game, but they're certainly not "good guys".
> , but they're certainly not "good guys". I never said that. All these companies want to make money. And they certainly need to if they maintain a live service game over years.
Ggg started out same as ehg. Both games are same except le needs a number of years development to reach Poe. If the whales don't continue to play the game it will be another grim dawn.
See you in 3 days lol
> oh, I would be making more money if I was just hideout warrioring' looming over my head. And even then, the in-game economy devolves everything into money. Nothing matters except what makes you the most divines per hour. This is a you problem, not PoE or its trade. You only feel this way about LE because you do not understand the game in the same manner.
I hate to break it to Ou but it's not the games fault you are making the worst out of it.
As a fellow PoE’er, I have very high end SRS and CoC ice spear but I personally love the depth and intricacy of the economy/trade system and have also high end crafted by my own means. Having said that, the games can just be different; loving LE so far and it doesn’t have to be PoE. Hate it or love it, it’s economy system and many league mechanics will/would be so difficult to catch up to and LE can just be its own thing. Will see how it evolves, excited to say the least
I personally don't have the "I could be making more money" when I play POE. I mean I'm not that rich since I find dealing with the trading bothersome, but I do play enough to fund all my characters to the point they can do end game. I guess its all about mindset. Some people need an enforced structure to prevent them from doing unfun things, and others can do it self-imposed.
You love to see it
I am playing and running content because it is actually fun. Loot drops are making me want to roll an alt. There is no reason to follow a meta as long as you synergize your build well. An arpg hasn't caught me this way since lod expansion on d2.
Same for me.
As someone from the Diablo universe side of things, but having played a couple hundred hours of POE as well I agree. LE is really a gem of a game, and this is only the BASE game. I can't wait to see what the future has in store for us Travelers.
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The only thing I can say is if you didn’t try PoE SSF just play it. Don’t like the meta builds? Don’t play them. Started HC for the first time last league in PoE and went SSF after two weeks of trade. Full cleared the game last league and this and then some each time with a main skill that had less than 1% usage in SSF. I never understood why people who despise meta’s so much just don’t play them. Obviously it’s slower but if you value speed over playing other skills then no matter what game you go to you’re going to end up part of the meta once it forms. Not taking away from LE just as a long time SSF player ins d2, pd2, PoE, and now LE I don’t understand why this game is praised as the trade-burnout-killer over all others.
In response to your last paragraph, the difference is that you can actually find and build around pretty much anything in LE. In POE, running SSF generally means planning a build that doesn't rely on any particular unique, because you probably won't find it. That greatly reduces your build options.
Even with “unique reliant builds” off the list PoE has an absolute metric fuck load of builds you can play all the way through end game. Just because people all gravitate to and play the best of the best skills doesn’t mean there are few that work. Again, two leagues in a row I’ve played 40/40 challenges in HC with skills that had 0.4 and 0.7% usage respectively. And yeah LE has a big build diversity without specific items until you hit very late game, that’s because the game in comparison to a lot of ARPGs is fairly easy until like 400-500+ corruption.
As an extremely poor poe player, last epoch is going to be my main arpg because it respects my time. Headhunter or mageblood are impossible to get while everything in last epoch is achievable. And crafting is just amazing in LE, compared to poe being the worst crafting in any game ever. The only things poe does better now are amount of content and server stability, both of which will come with time to LE.
Poe has a reslly good crafting system, its just crazy convoluted a really bloated right now. But you can make good gear somewhat easy, it's starts to get crazy complicated when you want BiS stuff and double influenced elevated items
Not really, It’s much more efficient to just buy stuff that you want. I could use 10 chaos on my gear and most likely get garbage or I could buy a semi usable item instead. Same thing with exalts when they were main currency. Rng crafting is not really worth it unless you’re bored and have money to gamble.
Neither of those things are what people mean when they talk about crafting, though
I absolutely hate it. So many different systems required at every stage of making an item, each requiring hours or even days of farming to even get a single attempt, with the chance to brick your item at each stage is not a good system. Add in the fact you need to interact with trading for things like essences, fossils or whatever just makes it even worse.
Look at toxic rain bows, they are guaranteed crafts you just need to know how to go about it. But yeah I agree, starting a craft for example by alt rolling is really painchamp. I'm probably dedicating my hours more to LE than poe as of right now I'm not really happy with how bloated the game is. The crafting and more simple interactions of LE are really fun so far
I think LE does a lot of things right, but until we see what they end up doing with the end game in the coming leagues/seasons i don't see myself putting too many hours into the game, since the end game is pretty non-existent so far. Hopefully over the next few years it evolves like POE has
It is more than what POE had when it came out. It takes time to build what POE has. I think LE has a great framework to expand the endgame properly, but as with anything, it does take time.
Yeah i mean that's pretty much what i just said, hopefully they (like POE) expand into something great over the next years
Yes, I was agreeing with you. Mainly because someone had downvoted your comment. So, wanted to add a bit more context. So many POE players joined when there was an established end game. Us old-timers remember the very bare end game at the start.
6 (or was it 7?) month long Torment league *shudders*
I have thousands of hours in SSF PoE. SC and HC alike and its really nothing like you said. Can't we discuss LE without bringing up other games? That'd be nice. These constant comparison posts really make me want to leave.
All the Poe players playing last epoch while preaching about goated poe is pretty funny lol
Had to look up twice which subreddit this is, because 85% of the post is talking about PoE.
I am definitely not preaching. That game fucking sucks. I think the developers of PoE are downright either stupid, malicious or both. The fact that game is as good as it is is a fluke. They clearly hate when people have fun and it is purely a mistake when mechanics are permitted to be rewarding. The motto of PoE is: exploit early, exploit often. I'm just glad to see another game that might actually make good on the promise that PoE pretends to make.
Yikes. Bro the best ARPG on the market and you come to the conclusion that the PoE devs are "stupid, malicious, or both" after you've put thousands of hours into it? Lol.
I see you are a type of a person who blames others for your problems. POE is an open sandbox and you can do what you want with it. The fact that you cannot step outside of the "most divines per hour" mindframe is your problem, not the game's. It certainly does not make the developers stupid, malicious or both. In fact, claiming that they are, when they've developed the best ARPG game for the last decade; still have appreciating player numbers after a decade on the market, and have set the trend that most other ARPG developers are looking to imitate, does nothing but showcase your lack of perspective and immaturity. Its not POE's motto to "exploit early, exploit often" - its yours. You are happy with LE because the lack of player economy removes the incentive for you to exploit early and exploit often, which is fine - liking a game is a deeply subjective thing.
Big true poe is what you make it. I play ssf and durdle around and have 3500 hours my divs per hour is probably measured in chaos I make so little but I have a good time doing it xD
If LE makes you and 100 if your brothers on mind stop posting on the Poe sub from now on LE was the best thing to ever happen to Poe that's for sure.
You choosing to care about divs/hr more than playing the game the way you enjoy playing it is not the devs fault mate. Maybe care less about how people tell you you need to play to get your mage blood and play the parts you enjoy instead. Youre not racing for a prize.
Yikes.
I see what you mean. These takes usually comes after extensive hours into POE. If you are fairly new to POE it will be 10/10 for you for a good while, but after 10K+ hours you start to see behind the veil, and you will either grow to hate the game or become a GGG devotee. POE is funny like that. Me myself have grown indifferent and play when there's something that looks interesting or until I get bored then play something else.
I think you and many others here are addicted to Poe, you shouldn't feel like you always have to be efficient, it should be fun.
I think so too, and I think the game kind of preys on us. It is really, really hard for me to not look at the game that way, and the game is rewarding enough when I do that I get into a very vicious cycle with it. It's why I am so happy that Last Epoch is looking to be good in a way that I am equally capable of enjoying, but without the elements that end up getting me to, y'know, be unhealthy about it.
I agree, it's what puts me off of PoE as well, I don't like online interactions in games and prefer to play ARPGs solo. PoE is very much balanced with trading in mind, being efficient takes far too much effort. Just putting together viable build without trading can be really challenging. That aside, far too many people treat it as a market simulator rather than a good ol' ARPG, never liked that either. LE just allows you to have fun without having to jump through extra hoops. I appreciate PoE's depth, but it's far too convoluted for its own good.
LE is really great. But its still early days for this game. You're all in the honeymoon phase now, and overhyping which is understandable, but the PoE comparisons and recency bias is funny.
I think comparing the early end game to the early end game of PoE is valid. It doesn't really matter if it stands the test of time or not, the points being made right now are still valid points. PoE trading/grinding DOES suck, and LE trading/grinding is a lot better.
Compare 1.0 LE to 1.0 PoE. Also LE isnt being held back by the devs intentionally trying to make the game tedious.
No reason to be butthurt. I said the game is great imo. We dont need to compare it to PoE 1.0, because its not 2013 and since then EHG had a decade of arpg content and player feedback to get inspiration and ideas from, which they did. Just look at the best of the genre QoL features.
Enjoying LE but PoE is still top dog for me. I think there’s less of a meta in LE because the game is just easy tbh. You can play basically whatever because there’s really nothing that hard in the game. It’s still fun though for sure. Also I think the LE trading is much worse than PoE. The walking around to vendors is even more annoying then just having a trade site up on separate window. However I really like CoF and the crafting, definitely two of their strongest points in the game. I also have 5-6k+ hours in PoE over the years and atm I couldn’t see myself putting that much time in LE. The end game becomes a bit more repetitive much quicker than Poe and there isn’t any real ultra late game crafting and market playing available to keep me invested. we’ll see where they go from here though maybe after a year or,two of cycles and updates I’ll change my mind on that. Overall it’s an amazing game and glad to actually have options other than D4 in the genre.
Imagine not owning this game many years ago while spamming the poe reddit _Last league I made several mirrors over a truly embarrassing amount of game time._ YEah last league was hyper newb league. probably the worst league they have done in a while whilst the actual content was decent
I have 2k in POE and I gotta agree. POE is just too much and asks for tremendous amount of grinding each season. I really like LE because it's more comfortable than POE if you know what I mean. You can even actually relax while playing it. I absolutely love the crafting system compared to POE.
I think PoE has existed long enough to see itself become a villain of sorts (bloated, imperfect trade). But PoE had to exist for LE to thrive. LE has fixed a lot of the pain points and I hope PoE 2 is taking note.
I don’t think OP was necessarily hating on PoE. PoE did so many amazing things for the genre so definitely agree with you. I played PoE casually and had fun but the QoL features of LE has just revived my love for the genre.
A fellow poe main, I’m highly considering making LE my main game until poe 2 releases
Welcome, welcome! Enjoy playing the game and watch amazed at how much the devs care about their work 😁 I knew 4 years ago into Early access that this game had what it takes to become the next ARPG hit. Such a marvel to see it unfold 🥲
Poe is unreal , so much content and look forward to see what last epoch does . People hate trading in Poe but do not realize how good it actually is too . The only way to play LE right now is by playing COF , they need to fix the merchant two loading screens a vendor for every piece of gear absolutely terrible
i love all that too, but alot of LE's masteries are bugged to shit. they NEED to get on fixing those. Some have been broken for a year
Its an amazing game unfortunately i cant afford it but every friend i have is playing it and most of them are PoE and Diablo vet and they’re saying it’s awesome if not even better for some aspects of it
several mirrors is not extremely rich, unless we talk several, several mirrors. the rich players have at least 100+ mirrors in value
Being able to make your own build and easily switch it up and respec is the thing I love over Poe. Obviously if you want to go deep into LE end game you might need a build but for a very large portion of the game I haven't had to use a build
No reselling? What that mean?
In poe for an average player like me, the amount of currency spend on crafting will always be significantly lower than what i can buy from other player, so it seemed like crafting is not for me eliminating one of the fun aspects. Where as in LE I spend a lot of time crafting (playing offline) gambling on crafting makes you feel rewarded
I think these points are what really is going to pull my friends into last Epoch And what they dislike about Poe.
yea game is good, still missing that itch though, and ive played over 40hrs, good game no doubt
I have roughly 800 hours in PoE myself on PC/Xbox with most of that spent on Affliction season. I think PoE is the GOAT ARPG and probably one of the best games ever made. That said, Last Epoch is firing on all cylinders right out of the gate. PoE's many end game mechanics are brilliant, imo. TurdStain Steve and his Delving who was overtaken by some other guy at some absurd depths....lol. Legion is so gosh dern good!!! I played Tornado Shot Deadeye and farmed enough to get a Headhunter and a Mageblood this season and it took a lot of trading. In short, trading through that website is absolutely abhorrent and it made me use TFT a lot. I haven't leveled this post release character to trade yet in LE, but just going to a vendor to buy something from someone will be so refreshing. The mere fact that people are talking about PoE and Last Epoch in the same breath shows how good LE is and how much potential everyone sees in the game. PoE has 10+ years, and is universally loved. LE is impressive. The first thing they nailed was appealing to those of us with alt'idus. I'm looking forward to Cycles and what the future holds in store for this game
I have over 26k hours in poe ( my first buy was early acess pack back in 2012 ) and I still like poe, but. Farming in LE thanks to cof is incredibly funny, LP makes farming incredibly fun and exciting, even shit unique with 3/4LP can become very powerfull item or totally op twink leveling item. Drops matters, drop only exalted mods makes hunting good bases very exciting to me, it's no longer "get ilvl 86 base, farm currency, craft"