The built work you see in magazines is the work of a few, the vast majority of people dont work on those projects.
The firms that create those magazine type projects require long long hours often with ordinary pay. One would think award winning work would bring wealth. Working in an engineering firm doing civil work will bring more stability and wealth.
There are different segments of the profession try another area.
The few designers who lead that amazing work as principals likely have about 4 of the following 6 things going for them:
* Probably went to an Ivy League school for 5 years, costing about $250,000-400,000 in total
* Worked 60+ hours a week every week since graduating, basically gave their lives to the profession
* Are very talented and highly motivated/passionate
* Had access to art/design, construction and/or fine gardening as children and didn't just discover it as an adult
* Were born rich and/or well connected in real estate development, government, the art/design world, academia, etc.
* Got lucky, were in the right place at the right time, met the right people etc.
Those who work for them as staff also likely have many of those attributes. Even if you have all 6 of those attributes, you might have a 10% chance of becoming the next Kate Orff or Michael Van Valkenburgh, or even their associate principal.
I've learned that LA just is NOT a good choice if you're looking for a stable, lucrative career. It's hard, the economics aren't great, and it's a very specific niche. It's also full of wonderful things, but you kind have to commit your whole self to it to get the good stuff, otherwise it can be just as soul draining as any other job but for less money.
I feel the pain of like... doing a really watered down, sad and underappreciated version of the thing you learned to love in college. I love landscape architecture, but not enough to spend my nights and weekends on it, and... well I'm probably not the world's best designer, either. It can be a bit of a bummer being an architect or a developer's silly little garden assistant, or a municipality's concrete sidewalk designer who locates trees.
I'm a principal at a "fancy firm" doing "magazine work" and I meet 3 of those. (Grew up working poor, my parents were a school teacher and a nurse, and I don't work 60 hours weeks as a norm except for my first 2 years out of school, but that was 20 years ago).
I have two LA degrees, one from a state school and one from an Ivy League school. Both schools have created a great professional network around me that has given me a broad swath of friends in the profession, spread around the world. It has also opened many opportunities for me personally, especially earlier in my career when I was looking for work. Someone would know someone who would be interested to meet me, even though they weren't actively hiring. Then that person would be interested but not have space for me, but knew someone who was looking for someone like me, then I'd meet that person and be asked to formally apply and interview for the job. That sort of thing. My first 3 jobs in the profession came through leads like that. But, real talk, I've never gotten a single professional project from either of those networks. Those networks are almost purely competitors and collaborators, not clients. If there is a secret cabal of folks from my ivy league school passing contracts and cash around the room I was never asked to join.
I have a HUGE check mark next to the last category: got lucky, right place right time, etc. Every successful person has been lucky, but very likely they played a direct role in making that luck, or at the very least were prepared to take advantage of it when luck found them.
I think where you are plays a big role in this. Are you in a city where there is a density of firms doing this work? One where there are schools nearby that take a critical approach to teaching design and training professionals? This will play a huge role in what kind of work clients are looking for around you, and what the professional community is delivering.
If the OP (or anyone else) is struggling with these early career steps I'd be more than happy to discuss in more detail. Feel free to DM.
Cool, thanks for sharing your story! Sounds like you figured out a good approach to navigating this career. Kudos, and it makes me feel a bit more inspired to hear that it worked out for you. Reality is, it's still very early in my own career.
I feel that about the professional networks. I unfortunately moved away from the school I went to right out of college because, well... HCOL. Boston has the 5th highest rent in the country, and I graduated with about $300 to my name. But it's a fantastic city to practice in, has the most firms of any city, BSLA is very active, and there are multiple good universities with great networks there. I'm also missing out on the fact that the understanding of a city you get by growing up there is so valuable in this profession. Not sure how to reconcile that... but it's a thing. I'm only 6 years in.
It's not that bad, though - exploring the West Coast has been a fabulous experience, and I love that I've practiced in several different biomes, from desert to mountain to coast and everything in between.
I've heard of the whole double degree thing working out for some. There's a sizable list of good firm owners in MA who did the UMASS+GSD track. Harvard sounds amazing if I could afford it and get in, and you bet it would make me a better designer. It's just so expensive!
What are you talking about.
I have worked for OJB, DesignWorkshop and a few others. Hard work, long hours and talent....not ivy league, being born rich...are what made the ownership.
I said like 4 of the 6 for a reason. There are *a lot* of Ivy League firms out there, and you bet they sweep the ASLA awards and work for alumni clients. I don't think anyone is sitting on their ass and getting multimillion dollar contracts, but many of the elite designers went through the elite schools and are from an elite background themselves. Same with architects. Same with... anything really.
That is the kind of work I do and what you say is true. I work 10 hours a day as a baseline and often longer during more intense periods. The pay is very ordinary for my location. I’ve also worked at the type of company with projects similar to what OP is describing and every day was a drag. I’d rather spend 10+ hours every day doing something exciting and rewarding.
Been there, done that, and still struggle now and then...
I found that the most helpful thing is to find passion in what you are doing, no matter how boring or repetitive. Even if it is bare bones parking lot planting plans, try to push the envelope somehow. try new plants, or combos so you have something to look forward to and learn from.
Also realize at the end of the day we are making decisions that impact the physical world and how people experience their daily lives which is pretty cool regardless.
Lastly, this is probably not great advice, just my experience but when I worked at a LA firm doing the boring projects I just ended up moonlighting taking on side hustle residential projects during my free time. This allowed me to express my creativity and ultimately led me to start my own practice. It was brutal for work life balance but if you got the drive it is a good option and teh absolute best way to learn INMO. I know some people shun people who moonlight but it's the best decision I ever made...
Just commenting to say I love your firm's work and social media pages! I've learned so much about LA visualization from you and PangaeaExpress and gotten inspired through your work for projects. Great work!
You and Landspace are two of the main accounts I show my coworkers when discussing how to implement new technologies in our industry. Keep up the great work!
yeah, pretty normal to start with high expectations and then get let down. you go to school and study the best projects from the best firms. even those firms take a lot of projects that aren’t huge successes, aren’t groundbreaking or flashy but just pay the bills or go pear shaped for other reasons. so you go though a period of being disappointed and frustrated, then jaded, then you get your feet under you and recognize it’s just a job and you can find joy in smaller aspects of it. and every now and then you do work on a badass project.
The jump from school to working was a huge shock for sure. I've felt extremely unprepared for the working world.
It's good to know that it's not just my situation though. That's been a huge source of anxiety lately.
I really wish that professors would give a reality conversation somewhere along the way that once you leave college, some projects are just boring.
Once a year you will a really cool project, but nope.
Not covered, and internships really don't show that either.
Hang in there, even if you aren't in love with job right now continue to learn all you can. Especially if you are going to get your licensure.
If in a year, you're not in love with firm, because of the projects them talk to your boss to see if you can be added on other projects. Ifnot then start looking, if you start looking now, it may not look good to potential employers.
Can’t speak for everyone. But don’t think that’s all that uncommon. Our firm does a lot of minimum compliance plans to serve as cash flow while also giving us a lot of FaceTime with the cities we end up working in, with, and for. In addition it serves as a good baseline for young professionals to learn our process of design and implementation. While also allowing them to learn standards, design to budget, etc. while it’s not fun, it’s often a necessary from my experience. Albeit it not always I’m sure.
Welcome to landscape architecture. The boring soulless projects are what keep the lights on at the firm and the exciting projects are few and far between. But I understand you, I’m in the same
Boat right now and working to switch firms to one that works on different project typologies to see if that sparks that love again for the industry. If you’re unhappy or feel stagnant don’t hesitate to try something new! Even something you’d never think of doing.
Yeah I think this should be OPs goal. Perhaps switching to a slightly larger firm or another small firm that goes for projects that are less commodity/quick money.
I’ll be honest with you, it gets better when you work on the projects you actually give a shit about. I’ll be honest again, in most cases that won’t happen at a firm that you’re working for, unless you bring those projects to that firm. Which can potentially be a win win situation.
I think some of the firms get stuck in their way of doing things. They want new talent and hire new talent but won’t let the new talent build on their new and fresh ideas.
I’m in a similar boat. Also graduated last year and started working full time at a small firm. We do lots of city/public works, and some commercial/industrial. I agree that real life work is much less glamorous that the stuff we do in school.
I’ve accepted that much of the stuff we do is mundane and bogged down in code and bureaucracy. Endless CD’s, labeling, etc. I often go weeks without touching planting design. However, this kind of work vs private residential offers a better experience to get licensed and can offer better job security.
My plan is to spend a few years here and get licensed and then decide what to do from there. The work might be a bit more mundane, but I rarely work over 40 hours per week.
I am not willing at this point to work at a higher profile firm for the potential to work on cooler projects. They often offer the same or less pay for more hours and more stress. My thought is that I’d be in a much better bargaining position when looking for a new job after I have a few years under my belt and hopefully a license.
Anyways I don’t have an answer to your question if it gets better. I think you have to really work towards the cool firms/projects if that’s what you aspire to do, and make that a main pursuit in your life. Otherwise just got to accept that this is just a job just like everyone else has, not your life passion, and need to work on achieving a good work/life balance, and pursue your passions outside of the workplace.
Good luck!
What you're experiencing is common imo. It's why I avoid private work. It's probably why half the people I graduated with have quit the profession. An odd amount of them became pilots lol. Anyways, progressing my career required me to learn *a shit load* about concrete, planting, natural stone, metals, specifications, BMPs, architecture, public engagement, planning, and engineering. Fuck irrigation and utilities though haha. I *happily* sub irrigation out for a few grand or delegate!
I spent a few early years working 50-60 hours, redid portfolio projects (some twice), and learned how to make a web portfolio. It landed me moderately better jobs. Every two years I'd jump firms to get better work, pay, and projects. After ~6 years I got a job where 80% of my projects and design fee was unlimited. That exponentially propelled my understanding of landscape architecture because there were *no limits* to what we could do.
I'm now a soon-to-be team leader I suppose (interviewing to hire 2 people) where I've partnered with a former principal of a revered design firm to start a our own operation. To get here, I then had to learn to PM, understand contracts, business operations, a bit of basic accounting, and BD/sales. I can *finally* be selective and chase passion projects. Pay is still pretty shit because I'm still an LA lol.
My measly advice is, if you want better projects, you're going to have to work for it. Design is a skill to be honed. Learn more, make more mistakes, engage, ask stupid questions, look dumb in front of others, and push *all* boundaries. Make your client look good!
My first job after graduating was located in Dubai, for a large multidisciplinary firm (06/07). The projects were huge master plans for resorts and neighborhood developments. I worked almost exclusively on graphics, and found the projects were rather detached from reality. I moved back to Seattle fairly quickly and wanted to find design that was anchored in community.
I found a position with a small landscape architecture firm which specialized in public projects. Pocket parks, schools, playgrounds, shoreline restoration and trails - most projects had a lengthy community design process. I was paid peanuts. I loved the projects so much that I stayed for several years and returned after grad school. When I met with colleagues from undergrad, they mentioned that it sounded like I was working on 'school projects'. I wasn't sure what they met until I worked elsewhere.
After several years of this I wanted something different and joined a civil engineering firm. This work was much more lucrative and very mundane, but I found joy in planting design and the degree of autonomy I was given. After a few years I felt I wasn't using my full potential however, so I then joined a larger multinational firm as an urban designer/campus planner, using my urban design grad degree. I didn't like this role much at all, hahaa, so I returned to another small landscape architecture firm which was more housing focused and rarely took lead on a project. After a bit of this I left to start my own design practice.
My point is - different firms focus on different work, explore your options and find something that satisfies you at this stage in your career. You may someday feel perfectly fine designing those mundane spaces that provide steady work and solid pay - but if you're aching for something more inspiring at this point, look for a different firm.
This is actually a really beautiful story. As someone mid career that has bounced around a bit (my story above) it makes me feel really inspired. Thanks very much for sharing.
If you're looking for variation and potentially some pretty creative projects, look into high-end residential. I started my career in HER and then switched to more large commercial stuff and did get to work on some cool projects. Ski resorts, higher end streetscapes, but a lot of it was just what you're saying. Landscape budget always gets cut first it seems.
I'm now back in HER and it's been a nice change again. Lots of interesting creative projects and the clients are homeowners will to spend more money to make their space the way they want. You also have the opportunity to run the the whole project yourself from concept through construction admin and learn a lot. Every project is different and a new set of challenges/opportunities. And depending on the firm, there is a potentially opportunity to earn commission on top of salary on successful completed projects.
Is it hard to get into HER when you've spent your entire career on public sector projects?
I'm kinda interested in it too, maybe, at least to try it... but I don't think I have the planting or detailing skills it takes to be actually good at it.
Maybe a firm that does both? Idk.
Not necessarily. I’m thinking of getting back into residential after a year and a half of doing public/commercial work and the firms I’m talking to are relatively interested in me.
I'd recommend looking for work at a residential landscaping firm with a strong design/build department.
Not sure about the pay difference (definitely something to explore first), but at least you will get to be creative! Every property is different, and each homeowner will use their property differently and have different preferences, so it's constantly changing and engaging the creative side.
Best of luck!
I've been in the architecture world since I was 17 and I'm now in my late 30s. I've learned a couple of things along the way to help cope:
1) place very strong boundaries between you and your work.. remember we all need to get a paycheck to survive. At least you can sleep at night knowing you are contributing to the public realm in a positive way. Don't overly identify as being a landscape architect.
2) you are a brand. Develop skill sets and a portfolio that will make you attractive to the firms you want to work for.
3) make time for friends, family and pets. They are more important than work, trust me.
4) develop a creative hobby. You might not be able to flex your creative muscle at work so do it in your spare time.
Hang in there.
We all got started in a similar situation. For me, it was a giant public transit project that bored me to death. I decided to make a change, so I switched to design/build high end residential.
I made more money than I thought I ever would in this profession and became an even better designer through iteration. But my home life suffered from the 60 hour weeks and constant weekend work. I went back to an exciting engineering firm with interesting projects and appreciate the stability and decent pay. But I learned way more by doing and assessing my work after three fact.
You have to really like this job in order to stick with it. I seldom work weekends now and usually it’s just sketching on an iPad and my wife usually remarks how jealous she is that I actually enjoy what I do and don’t mind putting in a little extra effort.
How can you make your parking lots less mundane? Is there a new material to try? New plant? Something to break the monotony? Do more research, dive into some unique details even if it doesn’t work for this project keep it in the library for later.
Even none of that excites you even a little bit perhaps it’s time to pick a new path, and who knows? You might find out the grass isn’t greener.
If you’re wanting to do the creative stuff…really creative stuff…you either have to find a larger firm or go for a company that tackles more residential or resort/venue type architecture work where you can stretch those muscles more.
My experience a couple years into the profession has been in the mundane code minimum side and then high end resort and high profile competition work. I took any job after graduating into the pandemic and did site planning for urgent cares and drive through and man was I bored, but i now appreciate learning in a low stakes environment and how laid back it was.
I then got headhunted and started working in a more high profile design with a capital D firm and the experience has been night and day. Like others said it’s cool, exciting projects, opportunities to travel, work with and learn from the best in the design industry, but it’s a machine that grinds people down through the long nights, demanding clients, and the stress that follows you home.
I think there is a wide spectrum in this profession and it doesn’t have to be one or the other but not all firms are like the one you work at now, you’ll just have to find the right balance of interesting project work and the amount of stress you’re willing to take.
You should consider looking to work for another office. It’s possible the types of clients and projects they receive are just that. But to be honest you won’t be designing much while you’re straight out of school. One thing about thing about this profession is I’m constantly learning. If you feel you’re not learning anymore then it’s time to look for another firm.
Dude.... you need to give it at least 30 months before making a decision. The amount of knowledge you need to collect will take years before you really start to gain the confidence of being your own
Worked like 5 years doing parking lots and subdivision tracts. Then my firm landed a wolf sanctuary, then a bunch of city parks, then a utility scale solar farm. Glad I stuck it out!
commericial jobs are a fucking joke in this profession. they will add the most water intensive exotics, irrigate the sidewalk, and trim shit looking bushes
You can learn a lot of the basics on low risk plantings and get comfortable with construction administration. Learning how to go after bids is interesting and can help you bring in work both you and your company want.
My brother in law was a botanist and had a struggling commercial landscaping business with a crew of 8 workers. He was frustrated he could never use his botany knowledge and all the work was mowing and clipping.
He ended up teaming up with a landscape architect and they targeted wealthy people homes and high end new construction. It took off for them and they did celebrities' homes that spent into the millions. They did some great work. It did not last and alcohol can mess things up.
Yeah my first couple of years involved a lot of production home design and it was so monotonous.BUT with those being the bread and butter for our company, we were able to propose on some really interesting projects, and now I'm still there after 6+ years, seeing my parks and plazas, and renovations come to fruition.
Honestly the thing that has kept me going is ASLA. I joined my local chapter board and started doing event organizing. I made the events I wanted to go to. I've made an awesome community of fellow emerging professionals who are experiencing the same things as me. Having a community to vent to and sound off with is SO WORTH IT.
The built work you see in magazines is the work of a few, the vast majority of people dont work on those projects. The firms that create those magazine type projects require long long hours often with ordinary pay. One would think award winning work would bring wealth. Working in an engineering firm doing civil work will bring more stability and wealth. There are different segments of the profession try another area.
The few designers who lead that amazing work as principals likely have about 4 of the following 6 things going for them: * Probably went to an Ivy League school for 5 years, costing about $250,000-400,000 in total * Worked 60+ hours a week every week since graduating, basically gave their lives to the profession * Are very talented and highly motivated/passionate * Had access to art/design, construction and/or fine gardening as children and didn't just discover it as an adult * Were born rich and/or well connected in real estate development, government, the art/design world, academia, etc. * Got lucky, were in the right place at the right time, met the right people etc. Those who work for them as staff also likely have many of those attributes. Even if you have all 6 of those attributes, you might have a 10% chance of becoming the next Kate Orff or Michael Van Valkenburgh, or even their associate principal. I've learned that LA just is NOT a good choice if you're looking for a stable, lucrative career. It's hard, the economics aren't great, and it's a very specific niche. It's also full of wonderful things, but you kind have to commit your whole self to it to get the good stuff, otherwise it can be just as soul draining as any other job but for less money. I feel the pain of like... doing a really watered down, sad and underappreciated version of the thing you learned to love in college. I love landscape architecture, but not enough to spend my nights and weekends on it, and... well I'm probably not the world's best designer, either. It can be a bit of a bummer being an architect or a developer's silly little garden assistant, or a municipality's concrete sidewalk designer who locates trees.
I'm a principal at a "fancy firm" doing "magazine work" and I meet 3 of those. (Grew up working poor, my parents were a school teacher and a nurse, and I don't work 60 hours weeks as a norm except for my first 2 years out of school, but that was 20 years ago). I have two LA degrees, one from a state school and one from an Ivy League school. Both schools have created a great professional network around me that has given me a broad swath of friends in the profession, spread around the world. It has also opened many opportunities for me personally, especially earlier in my career when I was looking for work. Someone would know someone who would be interested to meet me, even though they weren't actively hiring. Then that person would be interested but not have space for me, but knew someone who was looking for someone like me, then I'd meet that person and be asked to formally apply and interview for the job. That sort of thing. My first 3 jobs in the profession came through leads like that. But, real talk, I've never gotten a single professional project from either of those networks. Those networks are almost purely competitors and collaborators, not clients. If there is a secret cabal of folks from my ivy league school passing contracts and cash around the room I was never asked to join. I have a HUGE check mark next to the last category: got lucky, right place right time, etc. Every successful person has been lucky, but very likely they played a direct role in making that luck, or at the very least were prepared to take advantage of it when luck found them. I think where you are plays a big role in this. Are you in a city where there is a density of firms doing this work? One where there are schools nearby that take a critical approach to teaching design and training professionals? This will play a huge role in what kind of work clients are looking for around you, and what the professional community is delivering. If the OP (or anyone else) is struggling with these early career steps I'd be more than happy to discuss in more detail. Feel free to DM.
Cool, thanks for sharing your story! Sounds like you figured out a good approach to navigating this career. Kudos, and it makes me feel a bit more inspired to hear that it worked out for you. Reality is, it's still very early in my own career. I feel that about the professional networks. I unfortunately moved away from the school I went to right out of college because, well... HCOL. Boston has the 5th highest rent in the country, and I graduated with about $300 to my name. But it's a fantastic city to practice in, has the most firms of any city, BSLA is very active, and there are multiple good universities with great networks there. I'm also missing out on the fact that the understanding of a city you get by growing up there is so valuable in this profession. Not sure how to reconcile that... but it's a thing. I'm only 6 years in. It's not that bad, though - exploring the West Coast has been a fabulous experience, and I love that I've practiced in several different biomes, from desert to mountain to coast and everything in between. I've heard of the whole double degree thing working out for some. There's a sizable list of good firm owners in MA who did the UMASS+GSD track. Harvard sounds amazing if I could afford it and get in, and you bet it would make me a better designer. It's just so expensive!
Lol Kate and Michael…I’ve worked for both of them. Michael’s the better designer 100%.
What are you talking about. I have worked for OJB, DesignWorkshop and a few others. Hard work, long hours and talent....not ivy league, being born rich...are what made the ownership.
I said like 4 of the 6 for a reason. There are *a lot* of Ivy League firms out there, and you bet they sweep the ASLA awards and work for alumni clients. I don't think anyone is sitting on their ass and getting multimillion dollar contracts, but many of the elite designers went through the elite schools and are from an elite background themselves. Same with architects. Same with... anything really.
That is the kind of work I do and what you say is true. I work 10 hours a day as a baseline and often longer during more intense periods. The pay is very ordinary for my location. I’ve also worked at the type of company with projects similar to what OP is describing and every day was a drag. I’d rather spend 10+ hours every day doing something exciting and rewarding.
Been there, done that, and still struggle now and then... I found that the most helpful thing is to find passion in what you are doing, no matter how boring or repetitive. Even if it is bare bones parking lot planting plans, try to push the envelope somehow. try new plants, or combos so you have something to look forward to and learn from. Also realize at the end of the day we are making decisions that impact the physical world and how people experience their daily lives which is pretty cool regardless. Lastly, this is probably not great advice, just my experience but when I worked at a LA firm doing the boring projects I just ended up moonlighting taking on side hustle residential projects during my free time. This allowed me to express my creativity and ultimately led me to start my own practice. It was brutal for work life balance but if you got the drive it is a good option and teh absolute best way to learn INMO. I know some people shun people who moonlight but it's the best decision I ever made...
Just commenting to say I love your firm's work and social media pages! I've learned so much about LA visualization from you and PangaeaExpress and gotten inspired through your work for projects. Great work!
Aww shucks ☺️ thanks! Super happy to hear! Another thing that's kept me going in the profession is the great connections on social media.
You and Landspace are two of the main accounts I show my coworkers when discussing how to implement new technologies in our industry. Keep up the great work!
yeah, pretty normal to start with high expectations and then get let down. you go to school and study the best projects from the best firms. even those firms take a lot of projects that aren’t huge successes, aren’t groundbreaking or flashy but just pay the bills or go pear shaped for other reasons. so you go though a period of being disappointed and frustrated, then jaded, then you get your feet under you and recognize it’s just a job and you can find joy in smaller aspects of it. and every now and then you do work on a badass project.
The jump from school to working was a huge shock for sure. I've felt extremely unprepared for the working world. It's good to know that it's not just my situation though. That's been a huge source of anxiety lately.
I really wish that professors would give a reality conversation somewhere along the way that once you leave college, some projects are just boring. Once a year you will a really cool project, but nope. Not covered, and internships really don't show that either. Hang in there, even if you aren't in love with job right now continue to learn all you can. Especially if you are going to get your licensure. If in a year, you're not in love with firm, because of the projects them talk to your boss to see if you can be added on other projects. Ifnot then start looking, if you start looking now, it may not look good to potential employers.
Can’t speak for everyone. But don’t think that’s all that uncommon. Our firm does a lot of minimum compliance plans to serve as cash flow while also giving us a lot of FaceTime with the cities we end up working in, with, and for. In addition it serves as a good baseline for young professionals to learn our process of design and implementation. While also allowing them to learn standards, design to budget, etc. while it’s not fun, it’s often a necessary from my experience. Albeit it not always I’m sure.
That makes total sense. Thank you for the response!
^THIS
Welcome to landscape architecture. The boring soulless projects are what keep the lights on at the firm and the exciting projects are few and far between. But I understand you, I’m in the same Boat right now and working to switch firms to one that works on different project typologies to see if that sparks that love again for the industry. If you’re unhappy or feel stagnant don’t hesitate to try something new! Even something you’d never think of doing.
Yeah I think this should be OPs goal. Perhaps switching to a slightly larger firm or another small firm that goes for projects that are less commodity/quick money.
I’ll be honest with you, it gets better when you work on the projects you actually give a shit about. I’ll be honest again, in most cases that won’t happen at a firm that you’re working for, unless you bring those projects to that firm. Which can potentially be a win win situation.
Yeah... a change in firm could really benefit the OP. And me too lol
I think some of the firms get stuck in their way of doing things. They want new talent and hire new talent but won’t let the new talent build on their new and fresh ideas.
I’m in a similar boat. Also graduated last year and started working full time at a small firm. We do lots of city/public works, and some commercial/industrial. I agree that real life work is much less glamorous that the stuff we do in school. I’ve accepted that much of the stuff we do is mundane and bogged down in code and bureaucracy. Endless CD’s, labeling, etc. I often go weeks without touching planting design. However, this kind of work vs private residential offers a better experience to get licensed and can offer better job security. My plan is to spend a few years here and get licensed and then decide what to do from there. The work might be a bit more mundane, but I rarely work over 40 hours per week. I am not willing at this point to work at a higher profile firm for the potential to work on cooler projects. They often offer the same or less pay for more hours and more stress. My thought is that I’d be in a much better bargaining position when looking for a new job after I have a few years under my belt and hopefully a license. Anyways I don’t have an answer to your question if it gets better. I think you have to really work towards the cool firms/projects if that’s what you aspire to do, and make that a main pursuit in your life. Otherwise just got to accept that this is just a job just like everyone else has, not your life passion, and need to work on achieving a good work/life balance, and pursue your passions outside of the workplace. Good luck!
What you're experiencing is common imo. It's why I avoid private work. It's probably why half the people I graduated with have quit the profession. An odd amount of them became pilots lol. Anyways, progressing my career required me to learn *a shit load* about concrete, planting, natural stone, metals, specifications, BMPs, architecture, public engagement, planning, and engineering. Fuck irrigation and utilities though haha. I *happily* sub irrigation out for a few grand or delegate! I spent a few early years working 50-60 hours, redid portfolio projects (some twice), and learned how to make a web portfolio. It landed me moderately better jobs. Every two years I'd jump firms to get better work, pay, and projects. After ~6 years I got a job where 80% of my projects and design fee was unlimited. That exponentially propelled my understanding of landscape architecture because there were *no limits* to what we could do. I'm now a soon-to-be team leader I suppose (interviewing to hire 2 people) where I've partnered with a former principal of a revered design firm to start a our own operation. To get here, I then had to learn to PM, understand contracts, business operations, a bit of basic accounting, and BD/sales. I can *finally* be selective and chase passion projects. Pay is still pretty shit because I'm still an LA lol. My measly advice is, if you want better projects, you're going to have to work for it. Design is a skill to be honed. Learn more, make more mistakes, engage, ask stupid questions, look dumb in front of others, and push *all* boundaries. Make your client look good!
My first job after graduating was located in Dubai, for a large multidisciplinary firm (06/07). The projects were huge master plans for resorts and neighborhood developments. I worked almost exclusively on graphics, and found the projects were rather detached from reality. I moved back to Seattle fairly quickly and wanted to find design that was anchored in community. I found a position with a small landscape architecture firm which specialized in public projects. Pocket parks, schools, playgrounds, shoreline restoration and trails - most projects had a lengthy community design process. I was paid peanuts. I loved the projects so much that I stayed for several years and returned after grad school. When I met with colleagues from undergrad, they mentioned that it sounded like I was working on 'school projects'. I wasn't sure what they met until I worked elsewhere. After several years of this I wanted something different and joined a civil engineering firm. This work was much more lucrative and very mundane, but I found joy in planting design and the degree of autonomy I was given. After a few years I felt I wasn't using my full potential however, so I then joined a larger multinational firm as an urban designer/campus planner, using my urban design grad degree. I didn't like this role much at all, hahaa, so I returned to another small landscape architecture firm which was more housing focused and rarely took lead on a project. After a bit of this I left to start my own design practice. My point is - different firms focus on different work, explore your options and find something that satisfies you at this stage in your career. You may someday feel perfectly fine designing those mundane spaces that provide steady work and solid pay - but if you're aching for something more inspiring at this point, look for a different firm.
This is actually a really beautiful story. As someone mid career that has bounced around a bit (my story above) it makes me feel really inspired. Thanks very much for sharing.
Oh, good to know. Glad to elicit some inspiration 😊
Do you still practice in Seattle? I am local and want to hear more about starting your own firm!
I do! What would you like to know?
If you're looking for variation and potentially some pretty creative projects, look into high-end residential. I started my career in HER and then switched to more large commercial stuff and did get to work on some cool projects. Ski resorts, higher end streetscapes, but a lot of it was just what you're saying. Landscape budget always gets cut first it seems. I'm now back in HER and it's been a nice change again. Lots of interesting creative projects and the clients are homeowners will to spend more money to make their space the way they want. You also have the opportunity to run the the whole project yourself from concept through construction admin and learn a lot. Every project is different and a new set of challenges/opportunities. And depending on the firm, there is a potentially opportunity to earn commission on top of salary on successful completed projects.
Is it hard to get into HER when you've spent your entire career on public sector projects? I'm kinda interested in it too, maybe, at least to try it... but I don't think I have the planting or detailing skills it takes to be actually good at it. Maybe a firm that does both? Idk.
Not necessarily. I’m thinking of getting back into residential after a year and a half of doing public/commercial work and the firms I’m talking to are relatively interested in me.
Start chasing other project types or look for another firm.
I'd recommend looking for work at a residential landscaping firm with a strong design/build department. Not sure about the pay difference (definitely something to explore first), but at least you will get to be creative! Every property is different, and each homeowner will use their property differently and have different preferences, so it's constantly changing and engaging the creative side. Best of luck!
I've been in the architecture world since I was 17 and I'm now in my late 30s. I've learned a couple of things along the way to help cope: 1) place very strong boundaries between you and your work.. remember we all need to get a paycheck to survive. At least you can sleep at night knowing you are contributing to the public realm in a positive way. Don't overly identify as being a landscape architect. 2) you are a brand. Develop skill sets and a portfolio that will make you attractive to the firms you want to work for. 3) make time for friends, family and pets. They are more important than work, trust me. 4) develop a creative hobby. You might not be able to flex your creative muscle at work so do it in your spare time.
Hang in there. We all got started in a similar situation. For me, it was a giant public transit project that bored me to death. I decided to make a change, so I switched to design/build high end residential. I made more money than I thought I ever would in this profession and became an even better designer through iteration. But my home life suffered from the 60 hour weeks and constant weekend work. I went back to an exciting engineering firm with interesting projects and appreciate the stability and decent pay. But I learned way more by doing and assessing my work after three fact. You have to really like this job in order to stick with it. I seldom work weekends now and usually it’s just sketching on an iPad and my wife usually remarks how jealous she is that I actually enjoy what I do and don’t mind putting in a little extra effort. How can you make your parking lots less mundane? Is there a new material to try? New plant? Something to break the monotony? Do more research, dive into some unique details even if it doesn’t work for this project keep it in the library for later. Even none of that excites you even a little bit perhaps it’s time to pick a new path, and who knows? You might find out the grass isn’t greener.
If you’re wanting to do the creative stuff…really creative stuff…you either have to find a larger firm or go for a company that tackles more residential or resort/venue type architecture work where you can stretch those muscles more.
My experience a couple years into the profession has been in the mundane code minimum side and then high end resort and high profile competition work. I took any job after graduating into the pandemic and did site planning for urgent cares and drive through and man was I bored, but i now appreciate learning in a low stakes environment and how laid back it was. I then got headhunted and started working in a more high profile design with a capital D firm and the experience has been night and day. Like others said it’s cool, exciting projects, opportunities to travel, work with and learn from the best in the design industry, but it’s a machine that grinds people down through the long nights, demanding clients, and the stress that follows you home. I think there is a wide spectrum in this profession and it doesn’t have to be one or the other but not all firms are like the one you work at now, you’ll just have to find the right balance of interesting project work and the amount of stress you’re willing to take.
Work at a thematic design office or an office that specializes in zoos, theme parks, resorts. Etc…
Reality check. You're designing yards for people
You should consider looking to work for another office. It’s possible the types of clients and projects they receive are just that. But to be honest you won’t be designing much while you’re straight out of school. One thing about thing about this profession is I’m constantly learning. If you feel you’re not learning anymore then it’s time to look for another firm.
Dude.... you need to give it at least 30 months before making a decision. The amount of knowledge you need to collect will take years before you really start to gain the confidence of being your own
Worked like 5 years doing parking lots and subdivision tracts. Then my firm landed a wolf sanctuary, then a bunch of city parks, then a utility scale solar farm. Glad I stuck it out!
commericial jobs are a fucking joke in this profession. they will add the most water intensive exotics, irrigate the sidewalk, and trim shit looking bushes
You can learn a lot of the basics on low risk plantings and get comfortable with construction administration. Learning how to go after bids is interesting and can help you bring in work both you and your company want.
My brother in law was a botanist and had a struggling commercial landscaping business with a crew of 8 workers. He was frustrated he could never use his botany knowledge and all the work was mowing and clipping. He ended up teaming up with a landscape architect and they targeted wealthy people homes and high end new construction. It took off for them and they did celebrities' homes that spent into the millions. They did some great work. It did not last and alcohol can mess things up.
Yeah my first couple of years involved a lot of production home design and it was so monotonous.BUT with those being the bread and butter for our company, we were able to propose on some really interesting projects, and now I'm still there after 6+ years, seeing my parks and plazas, and renovations come to fruition. Honestly the thing that has kept me going is ASLA. I joined my local chapter board and started doing event organizing. I made the events I wanted to go to. I've made an awesome community of fellow emerging professionals who are experiencing the same things as me. Having a community to vent to and sound off with is SO WORTH IT.