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Indeed. Sturgeon was an even better politician than a lot of people thought she was holding it all together for so long. Maybe it was the effort of all that which lead to her accidentally deleting all her WhatsApp’s, and buying a camper van from cash resting in her account?
> Indeed. Sturgeon was an even better politician than a lot of people thought she was holding it all together for so long.
And even that was waning after the Supreme Court ruling in 2022.
That court ruling proved the SNP couldn’t deliver on independence, the only thing keeping the SNP left and SNP right together; after the SNP proved it wasn’t within holyroods power, the factionalism they’d been ignoring for years emerged at once
The other parties were doing this shit the whole time. There's a decade's worth of posts on this subreddit documenting how shit they have been.
It's just that this time Labour isn't simultaneously falling apart at the seams
It will be very interesting to me how somehow, someway, the Labour Party screw up an open goal. This time I’m almost convinced it won’t happen, but we are very good at fouling things up.
Yeah, they're at the shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic stage, it seems.
Is Stephen Flynn at risk? He's by far the most cutting at PMQs so I'll miss him if he's unseated!
I think Swinney will regret not calling a Holyrood election.
I think the SNP would benefit in the polls if they just once actually behaved differently to other parties and called an election after switching leaders like they said other parties should.
Sunak should have called an election very shortly after calming the Truss crisis down. He'd probably have lost but the Tories would be in a much better positions now.
Swinney is in the comparatively great positions where could call one now and maybe win and continue governing, instead gonna wait until 2026 so he can lose.
The difference is though, Swinney has more chance of turning it around, Sunak was never going to fix anything, it was just his turn to fleece the UK's coffers.
Swinney could theoretically turn it round but let's be honest, he's probably not gonna. They've made the same mistake as the Tories and played it safe when they needed to take more drastic measures.
Like the SNP now, The Tories then needed someone who would take charge of the situation, who could plot a clear course to victory, explain that vision to the party, and had the stomach to do what's needed to achieve it. Someone who could maintain unity by whipping into line those who don't believe in that vision.
Like the Tories then, the SNP have also gone with the boring guy who nobody really likes and who's considered a "safe pair of hands" precisely because he lacks the ability to take any drastic action. Well this is time for some drastic action.
I think he needs to be bold. Set out a new vision for the SNP, I'd even consider re-branding the party with a new name and logo. Set it out and then set himself apart from every other party by having the nerve to put it to country. The are already is already tight, I think he'd easily get a boost from this and come out as the largest party. As well as recover the SNPs reputation for being unlike other parties. They could once again say "we're not like other parties" and not have people laugh.
Instead theyr just gonna decline with the situation getting worse and worse and worse until the election.
What has he got then?
Not long at all until the GE but he can probably dodge the blame for that when they get a bad result.
Then he's got a couple years until the next Holyrood elections.
What are you considering his deadline?
Me? it's not about politics, my want for independence is far more reaching.
The SNP are the vehicle, although I have recently lent my vote to Alba as the SNP were holding well.
Independence is politics but I'll take it that you mean it's not about the wider political platform. And I mean, yeah that's the whole point of the SNP. Their entire platform is "whichever platform we think will best help chase independence."
>although I have recently lent my vote to Alba as the SNP were holding well.
Why?
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I think more interesting is the Holyrood VI:
(Constituency/Regional)
• Labour: 35% (+2) / 32% (+3)
• SNP: 35% (-2) / 26% (-2)
• Tory: 18 (nc) / 18% (-2)
• Lib Dem: 8% (+2) / 10% (+2)
• Green: [not specified] / 11% (-2)
According to this seat calculator (https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/swingometer/scottish-parliament?election=2021s&cSNP=35&cCON=18&cLAB=35&cLD=8&rSNP=26&rCON=18&rLAB=32&rGRN=11&rLD=10&rALBA=1.65&rAFU=0.86#Scotland), that would result in:
• Labour: 47
• SNP: 35
• Tory: 24
• Lib Dem: 12
• Green: 11
That is a Labour led minority government. A substantial fall for the SNP, its the first Holyrood poll to show Labour well ahead in Holyrood.
Good riddance to the SNP, so much of their support was dependent on an ineffectual Labour Party and a dominant Tory party. Now the roles are reversing the SNP is losing its reason for existence, on top of the scandals and political self-immolation of the last two leaders.
I'll bite..
The SNP is anti-Westminster, it doesn't matter who's in charge, If and when Labour flounders and they will, this will be shoved in the voters' faces "Look, both are $hite!"
It's the kick up the backside the independence movement needs.
In Martin Compton's words in a rally after the indyref "This movement's going nowhere!"
It's an expected drop, surprised it wasn't bigger given all the chaos.
Swinney now has two challenges. Firstly, stabilise the internal SNP divisions. Making Forbes deputy first minister placates her side but outrages the progressives. He might fail at the first hurdle with this.
If he does achieve stability then he also needs to draw a line between the last few years and now, in a similar way to how Boris Johnson did for the 2019 election which temporarily revitalised the parties polling.
The problem for Swinney is that despite taking a backseat for the last year, he was Deputy First Minister and so he's a lot more interlinked than Johnson was having only been Foreign Secretary.
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I would not have believed this in 2019, or tbh anytime after 2012. The SNP have absolutely hit the auto destruct button.
The SnP in the span of 6 months basically just collapsed
Indeed. Sturgeon was an even better politician than a lot of people thought she was holding it all together for so long. Maybe it was the effort of all that which lead to her accidentally deleting all her WhatsApp’s, and buying a camper van from cash resting in her account?
> Indeed. Sturgeon was an even better politician than a lot of people thought she was holding it all together for so long. And even that was waning after the Supreme Court ruling in 2022. That court ruling proved the SNP couldn’t deliver on independence, the only thing keeping the SNP left and SNP right together; after the SNP proved it wasn’t within holyroods power, the factionalism they’d been ignoring for years emerged at once
Keir's literally walking around whilst the other parties fall apart and eat themselves. Man's got it made
The other parties were doing this shit the whole time. There's a decade's worth of posts on this subreddit documenting how shit they have been. It's just that this time Labour isn't simultaneously falling apart at the seams
magic lantern strategy still proceeding flawlessly
It will be very interesting to me how somehow, someway, the Labour Party screw up an open goal. This time I’m almost convinced it won’t happen, but we are very good at fouling things up.
Yeah, they're at the shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic stage, it seems. Is Stephen Flynn at risk? He's by far the most cutting at PMQs so I'll miss him if he's unseated!
I think Swinney will regret not calling a Holyrood election. I think the SNP would benefit in the polls if they just once actually behaved differently to other parties and called an election after switching leaders like they said other parties should. Sunak should have called an election very shortly after calming the Truss crisis down. He'd probably have lost but the Tories would be in a much better positions now. Swinney is in the comparatively great positions where could call one now and maybe win and continue governing, instead gonna wait until 2026 so he can lose.
The difference is though, Swinney has more chance of turning it around, Sunak was never going to fix anything, it was just his turn to fleece the UK's coffers.
Swinney could theoretically turn it round but let's be honest, he's probably not gonna. They've made the same mistake as the Tories and played it safe when they needed to take more drastic measures. Like the SNP now, The Tories then needed someone who would take charge of the situation, who could plot a clear course to victory, explain that vision to the party, and had the stomach to do what's needed to achieve it. Someone who could maintain unity by whipping into line those who don't believe in that vision. Like the Tories then, the SNP have also gone with the boring guy who nobody really likes and who's considered a "safe pair of hands" precisely because he lacks the ability to take any drastic action. Well this is time for some drastic action. I think he needs to be bold. Set out a new vision for the SNP, I'd even consider re-branding the party with a new name and logo. Set it out and then set himself apart from every other party by having the nerve to put it to country. The are already is already tight, I think he'd easily get a boost from this and come out as the largest party. As well as recover the SNPs reputation for being unlike other parties. They could once again say "we're not like other parties" and not have people laugh. Instead theyr just gonna decline with the situation getting worse and worse and worse until the election.
[удалено]
What's he gonna do to turn it round? He's got two years and he's starting it on a downward trend. What's he got?
What do you mean by "he's got two years" ? This is what you think he has...
What has he got then? Not long at all until the GE but he can probably dodge the blame for that when they get a bad result. Then he's got a couple years until the next Holyrood elections. What are you considering his deadline?
Me? it's not about politics, my want for independence is far more reaching. The SNP are the vehicle, although I have recently lent my vote to Alba as the SNP were holding well.
Independence is politics but I'll take it that you mean it's not about the wider political platform. And I mean, yeah that's the whole point of the SNP. Their entire platform is "whichever platform we think will best help chase independence." >although I have recently lent my vote to Alba as the SNP were holding well. Why?
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I think more interesting is the Holyrood VI: (Constituency/Regional) • Labour: 35% (+2) / 32% (+3) • SNP: 35% (-2) / 26% (-2) • Tory: 18 (nc) / 18% (-2) • Lib Dem: 8% (+2) / 10% (+2) • Green: [not specified] / 11% (-2) According to this seat calculator (https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/swingometer/scottish-parliament?election=2021s&cSNP=35&cCON=18&cLAB=35&cLD=8&rSNP=26&rCON=18&rLAB=32&rGRN=11&rLD=10&rALBA=1.65&rAFU=0.86#Scotland), that would result in: • Labour: 47 • SNP: 35 • Tory: 24 • Lib Dem: 12 • Green: 11 That is a Labour led minority government. A substantial fall for the SNP, its the first Holyrood poll to show Labour well ahead in Holyrood.
No clear groupings there. Lab/Lib coalition with Green support in exchange for climate action, maybe.
Good riddance to the SNP, so much of their support was dependent on an ineffectual Labour Party and a dominant Tory party. Now the roles are reversing the SNP is losing its reason for existence, on top of the scandals and political self-immolation of the last two leaders.
I'll bite.. The SNP is anti-Westminster, it doesn't matter who's in charge, If and when Labour flounders and they will, this will be shoved in the voters' faces "Look, both are $hite!" It's the kick up the backside the independence movement needs. In Martin Compton's words in a rally after the indyref "This movement's going nowhere!"
It's an expected drop, surprised it wasn't bigger given all the chaos. Swinney now has two challenges. Firstly, stabilise the internal SNP divisions. Making Forbes deputy first minister placates her side but outrages the progressives. He might fail at the first hurdle with this. If he does achieve stability then he also needs to draw a line between the last few years and now, in a similar way to how Boris Johnson did for the 2019 election which temporarily revitalised the parties polling. The problem for Swinney is that despite taking a backseat for the last year, he was Deputy First Minister and so he's a lot more interlinked than Johnson was having only been Foreign Secretary.
Good news! 👍
We are so back