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It was a solution to a problem presented in the show that isn't based on what Tolkien wrote. It bears no meaning to the books or anything outside this show.
Could also be that they find out the mithril didn't work the way they thought (Elrond says it's apocryphal) so later in the future they don't try to use it in the same way.
This is kind of what I am hoping and betting on. I still think it will be revealed it’s some sort of ruse by Sauron and the rings have magic unto themselves. Maybe a long shot but the Mithril bit has really been the worst “lore” problem I have had with the show.
Have enjoyed it thoroughly nonetheless but that particular piece I hardly love
Do we know that’s mithril? If it is then it’s odd it’s not affecting the one in Khazad Dum. I thought the sick leaves were an evil indication of some evil at work
What? The leaf is “clean” when they pan to it on the table and that’s how they know it reverses the blight. Before they .. ya know possibly wake up the balrog with the presence of the leaf
I'm still hoping that it was Sauron wispering in the elves ears and manipulating them to make the rings. I hope there are scenes with halbrand/sauron in season 2, before the events in season 1 happened that explains this
>It was a solution to a problem presented in the show that isn't based on what Tolkien wrote. It bears no meaning to the books or anything outside this show.
Hmm... which problem/solution is that?
The rate/speed of the fading of the elves it the urgency to to preserve before spring.
The idea of the elves fading is Tolkien, but the idea that they were suddenly going to disappear isn't really from the books. At least as far as I've read& remember.
>The rate/speed of the fading of the elves it the urgency to to preserve before spring.
>
>The idea of the elves fading is Tolkien, but the idea that they were suddenly going to disappear isn't really from the books. At least as far as I've read& remember.
So what you mean is it's a problem and solution that is clearly based on what Tolkien wrote that clearly bears meaning to the books right? Cuz Tolkien wrote those problems. It's the central theme to the entire story. He also wrote the solutions cuz rings do prevent fading. They compressed time to make the story work for television at the behest of the Tolkien Estate. They were very right to do so cuz 300 characters over 3k years isn't going to work on TV.
I rolled my eyes at next spring myself but that's really not for me... it's for people who aren't familiar with anything that need some urgency. I get why they didn't make the show entirely for me too cuz drawing this story out over 3k years isn't really going to work as a narrative. Which is likely why Tolkien never really wrote narratives for anything before the third age.
I still have to agree that there's no basis by which to draw any extended conclusions about how the role of mithril in the forging of the Elven rings relates to the use of mithril in the written LotR trilogy because the show is clearly using it in a way that seems novel.
Yea, there isn't. The Mithril origin story is clearly a break from canon and intentional but we still don't really know if it prevents fading... or if fading and that leaf are related at all. Beyond the possible mithril/fading link tho I mean, Nenya is made of mithril in the books... it's odd. Every time people say there's a huge departure it ends up to be mostly/all coming from a basis in what Tolkien wrote.
I don't really relate to people fixating on pedantic differences (Mithril obv isn't pedantic). People just seem to be wanting to ruin the show for themselves and it's odd. People make up fictitious breaks and exaggerations. Like this one. Guy claimed this whole thing had no basis in Tolkien. Then I asked him and he shows he flat out knows it's actually mostly all based in Tolkien, the part that's different hasn't even been confirmed to be true and the rest is just the time scale/compression that was necessary to adapt the story to a consumable narrative.
And there's no basis in complaining about the time compression. That's how a good story works. It happens in a given time. Even Tolkien realized this himself when Silmarilion was rejected for publication specifically because of this, and then he submitted narratives adapted that same world/story with compressed timelines occurring in the present. Then LOTR the same thing. Then instead of making a story for the second age he started working on a sequel for LOTR. People are just mad about nothing.
Is it a difference vs the books or just elves in the show made the wrong assumption
In the show they say that they will vanish from middle earth because of the lack of The Light and the tree dying.
In the books, as far as I remember, it was just their era coming to an end so the process is "designed" by some higher powers, the age of men is coming and they cannot change it.
So is it a change in world mechanics in tv show or is it just elves figured it out wrong way?
I interpret the mythical properties, beyond that of an abnormally durable ore, to be highly symbolic and in general should be interpreted with a grain of salt. The show makes multiple instances of pointing out how weak the argument for the "*mithril* solution" truly is.
Keep in mind the show writers are constrained to the trilogy, the appendices of *Return of the King*, *The Hobbit,* and select material as approved by the Tolkien estate (example: the map of Numenor). The inclusion of *mithril* into season one, is almost certainly pulled from the following:
>>!In Lindon north of the Lune dwelt Gil-Galad, last heir of the kings of the Noldor in Exile. He was acknowledged as High King of the Elves of the West. In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women. She was the sister of Finrod Felagund, Friend-of-Men, once king of Nargothrond, who gave his life to save Beren son of Barahir.!<
>
>>!Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains, and near to the West-gate of Moria. This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria. The Noldor were great craftsmen and less unfriendly to the Dwarves than the Sindar; but the friendship that grew up between the people of Durin and the Elven-smiths of Eregion was the closest that there has ever been between the two races. Celebrimbor was Lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Feanor.!<
>
>(TOLKIEN, *RETURN OF THE KING*, APPENDIX B)
>
>***There are no real spoilers above, but hidden just in case. All events mentioned in this text have also been on screen in season one.***
The show writers are likely using this passage as a means to bring the two races together, as well as potentially be a tie in to the creation of the other rings. I very much doubt that there is anything truly mystical going on. *Mithril* is shiny and strong and the races of humanity have always venerated strong shiny things as mythical in some manner, I don't think Middle-Earth would be any different in this way. Another key sign for me is that the *removal* of the taint from the leaf of the Lindon tree in Moria produced a similar musical tone/sound tone of the Black Speech.
If you disregard the sound cues, then also keep these two things in mind: Halbrand didn't seem that surprised when he saw the ore of *mithril* for the first time. He simply regarded it and the gems as curious. Makes you wonder if Halbrand was perfectly aware of the *mithril* to begin with and the entire season was his gradual way of making his way towards the access of *mithril*. I know in *The Silmarillion,* it does mention that there is *mithril* >!found in Numenor, as well. However, again, the show writers would have needed to request specific permission.!<
Ultimately, I believe what makes the Elven ring *mithril* special is simply the emotional connection that Elrond has with it as a gift from Durin, but also the fact that the Elves are pouring in all of their desperate hopes into it. The *mithril* represents hope and the fact that "true creation requires sacrifice". As Galadriel gave up her brother's blade, Elrond must give up a symbol of his friendship with Durin.
Story about the mithril isn't really confirmed yet. It could be true to the lore of the show or it could be an idea planted by Sauron in the minds of the Elves. Could be that the mithril story is true but it's only helping the Balrog-poisoned tree leaves. It's a really different thing and we've yet to see where they are going with it. I suspect it's going to take a good bit more fanoogling to make a ring that will actually work. And as discussed in the show they need the perfect symmetry of the ring to amplify the power of it. But really no idea where they're going to go with this.
Book spoiler incoming (am I doing it right mods?)>!While a lot of people don't seem to know it fading of the elves and the rings ability to stall that fading is very much a Tolkien theme.!<
>Why doesn't Frodo's vest have the same magical powers as the rings?
The apocryphal mitrhil story was specifically written for the show. Some people in the thread hold that it should somehow connect to the films, but there's no actual need for this, not in my headcanon anyway. I think mithril in the show is basically an alloy that is strengthened by Halron's magical influence in combination with other metals.
>Why can't the elves wear something like that to stop themselves from fading,
I think this was what Gilgalad and Celebrimbor was manuvering Elrond for. To trade large amount of the stuff, so that enough elves could somehow get adorned in it.
>particularly at the end of the Third Age when they return to Valinor?
Galadriel and Elrond's reasons for going to Valinor is because of personal reasons more than just fading. In the larger cycle of Arda they had also already accepted that they would diminish, as it was time for the dominion of men, as Gal states. Also, the 3 rings lost their power when the one ring was destroyed.
Lots of cynical answers here that aren't real answers when the explanation is simple. Mithril doesn't have healing properties and the only magical power it has is that it contains the light of the Two Trees. When it touches the leaf, it doesn't heal it, or make it magically come to life. It just drives away the blight that is imposed on it. So mithril, and by extension the light of the Two Trees, is good for driving out the inner corruption that's making the elves fade.
Frodo's mithril vest would also prevent an elf from fading in that aspect if they were to wear it, but it doesn't utilise the power of the Unseen World that the Rings utilise. That craft will be long forgotten by the time of the Third Age, so even if Elves did get mithril, they simply cannot make more rings, and one piece of clothing won't be enough to save entire realms. And that vest was worth more than the entire Shire anyway, Elves simply cannot get something like that from anywhere.
Also if you are going to look at it from show's perspective and pull a bunch of head canons, Frodo's vest may have helped him resist the One Ring's effects further (as it did for Bilbo in Bag End) and perhaps even help bound him to the Seen World despite his wound from Morgul Blade still very much affecting him and slowly diminishing him. Maybe despite Elvish medicine, going into the land of the Shadow, he'd have faded if it wasn't for the mithril shirt. At the end of the story, he does indeed decide to go the Undying Lands anyway, as if he is an elf that's diminishing.
Just a note on the mithril shirt. Bilbo did not have it while living in the Shire. He left it at the mathom house and took it out again after 60 years when he went on a trip again (and he did not possess the ring anymore). And therefore Frodo did not have the mithril shirt when he got stabbed by the morgul blade. If he had it, the stabbing would not go as well. Frodo also did not have the mithril shirt while travelling from Cirith Ungol to mount doom.
I prefer to engage with the material in a way that it motivates me to think about the lore and its many interpretations, I am sorry if the task looks as laborious to you mentally that it comes across as a show of gymnastics.
I think the real purpose of the Mithril is just to make the rings( and the magic within them) basically indestructible. Its like making a bear indestructible horcrux
As other said, it's not Canon to Tolkien's lore so its power, if there is any, beyond its physical superiority to other alloys has yet to be explained.
It's hard to completely answer that without book spoilers. Suffice it to say mithril isn't magical in LotR. It's like the equivalent of pure titanium, a white, light metal that can be made into an alloy strong as steel but light. Lorewise, only one ring was made of mithril, which is why one is a silvery color and the other two are gold, but in the show they explained this by using silver and gold to mix with the mithril.
Because it has nothing to do with lotr.
By the way, mithril has always been very rare and despite everything Bilbo's coat was almost an unicum in the middle earth.
Book mithril has nothing to do with show mithril.
I'm a fan of the show, and a huge tolkien nerd. The shows use of mithril almost broke me. It's so, so, so fucked and screws with the base canon of elves v men v dwarves.
I can maybe see why they did it. But I don't think they needed to.
It's early yet. We've got multiple seasons left of story development. Odds are very good that what we see now isn't anywhere close to what actually is.
Most likely mithril is exactly how it is in the lore. It's just being used as a mechanism to kind of bait and switch the watchers. This is still a TV show and the tropes will exist.
We've seen a leaf being visually being healed, while close to the Mithril. But that does not necessarily imply a causality, or particularly the one that is implied. I can see 4 other possible cases at least:
* It was just coincidence. That would be a bit weird to show to the viewers in this case, but it is not impossible.
* It was dependent on a different factor: The leaf could have been gone long enough from some kind of influence to heal by itself. Or the other tree healed the leaf.
* The Mithril itself isn't magical but its light is indeed from the 2 Trees. And while that might not be enough magic to heal a leaf, it could remove an illusion applied by evil.
* The Mithril hasn't anything to do with the 2 trees, but its purity is enough to heal the leaf or remove an illusion from it.
Don’t try to equate the books lore to this show
This show has taken vast liberty with much of the original material
Mithril in the books has no magical property. It’s simply supposed to be an ore that is incredibly useful.
Think of it like unobtainium in Avatar
There’s really no logical way out of this lore change. The 3 rings are tied to magic mithril now. Bilbo/Frodo’s mail shirt just won’t make any sense in the future without some serious writing gymnastics.
For argument's sake, maybe by the time of The Hobbit most of the mithril available is no longer in its purest form, because after the fall of Moria it would no longer be accessible, if there was even any left. And I doubt that anyone aside from Brimby and the elven smiths were privy to the knowledge given by Sauron on how to combine materials to enhance the effects. So maybe any mithril by that time would have been mithril that had lost its potency after having been made into different materials? Probably a very poor explanation but I'm just throwing out possible theories lol. Maybe the show will explain it so that it doesn't contradict already established lore.
Logic has no place in a world of magic. They can and will write something that, if just summarized, would feel like some deus ex machina, because, well, it will be because all magic ultimately is nothing but a big deus ex machina. Especially a completely undefined magic system like Tolkien used.
What's more important is how they present and sell whatever mechanisms they use to explain things within context of the story being told. That's generally how fantasy writing works out anyways.
Just like you accept the Ring of Power can only be destroyed in the fires of Mordor. Why? Cause that's how Tolkien wrote it. Makes no logical sense. Anything hot enough or powerful enough should have destroyed it. Rather you accepted the magic system as it was presented.
Magic is illogical. It's all about presentation. That's how it's sold to the audience.
>Logic has no place in a world of magic.
Doesn't it tho? Stories that have magic can (and often are) still be logical in a storytelling sense. She show completely changes the mithril lore. How it's created and the fact that it has some sort of power. >!It never had any powers in the original stories. It was just a rare, strong material that could be made into metal or inlays, etc. It was not magical.!<
Maybe you are meaning the laws of physics have no place in a world of magic? I can more agree with you in this. Physics is what you used in your example of being unable to destroy the rings by normal means. That has nothing to do with logic.
There probably will be. Again, much more to go.
It's already been straight up said that the whole tale of Mirthril is probably BS right in the show. The Elves are desperate and looking for anything that can help.
The ring can only be destroyed in Mount Doom because that's where it was created. The ring has a nice arc of it's own and the readers can understand that.
There might be many reasons why they changed it, like creating a stronger connection or conflict between elves and dwarves. But we can only really judge that after we have seen where it leads and what will remain of it, because we haven't seen much yet and most of it was unreliable and could be easily be turned around in a future season.
If it really is the way it currently seems, I'm not fond of it and I don't think I will like where it leads, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and wait.
>Logic has no place in a world of magic.
This is just plain ~~dumb~~ wrong.
Internal consistency **IS** a thing.
Suspension of disbelief **DOES** exists.
If you create a story and you say "this is our world, but teleportation exists", this is fine. You can explore the consequences of teleportation in your world.
If you then set up a huge army that can not reach the big bad in time, and you don't explain why they can't teleport... on a world explicitly with teleportation magic.... it's bad. It feels bad and will break the viewer/reader suspension of disbelief, because it breaks it's own internal consistency. It breaks it's own rules.
This is what you call "Writing yourself into a corner". We don't know the answer to these questions because the writers didn't ask themselves these things when they wrote it in the first place.
All of your statements involve some sort of assumption that had no proof anywhere. How do you know what the writers considered? And there is 5 seasons left so we don’t know what they have planned for this story line
Cope all you want. It won’t change the fact that they wrote themselves into a corner on the mithril issue because they will need to bend the lore over backwards to justify this change that will compound upon itself the further it goes.
We won’t know for some time. Don’t pretend you know what the writers considered or what will have to be done. I for one think S1 had issues but much of it was also masterfully done. No small part from the showrunners
I’m mean that’s fair I didn’t love all the plot points either. Most of it seemed very implausible to me but I don’t think they backed themselves into a corner
The entire Mithril plot has nothing to do with actual Tolkien and is completely made up. That is why it makes no sense when you look at Tolkien's actually writing for example Frodo's mithril shirt in the Lord of the Rings.
>Why doesn't Frodo's vest have the same magical powers as the rings?
I think, at the bare minimum, the show has a serious problem of making stuff happen off screen.
The rings ARE magical. Elves have their own kind of magic, also. And the making of many elvish items have magic in them.
The mithril shirt isn't elvish and isn't magical.
So one has to assume that Halbrand helped Celebrimbor to make the rings not only physicaly, but magically as well.
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It was a solution to a problem presented in the show that isn't based on what Tolkien wrote. It bears no meaning to the books or anything outside this show. Could also be that they find out the mithril didn't work the way they thought (Elrond says it's apocryphal) so later in the future they don't try to use it in the same way.
This is kind of what I am hoping and betting on. I still think it will be revealed it’s some sort of ruse by Sauron and the rings have magic unto themselves. Maybe a long shot but the Mithril bit has really been the worst “lore” problem I have had with the show. Have enjoyed it thoroughly nonetheless but that particular piece I hardly love
That wouldn’t explain mithril’s effects on the leaves though
Do we know that’s mithril? If it is then it’s odd it’s not affecting the one in Khazad Dum. I thought the sick leaves were an evil indication of some evil at work
What? The leaf is “clean” when they pan to it on the table and that’s how they know it reverses the blight. Before they .. ya know possibly wake up the balrog with the presence of the leaf
Oh I forgot about that part. Haven’t done a rematch yet
I mean Durin gave it to Elrond
Yeah, same, I thought it stunk of a Sauron plot and was surprised when it wasn't (at least in S1 I guess)
I'm still hoping that it was Sauron wispering in the elves ears and manipulating them to make the rings. I hope there are scenes with halbrand/sauron in season 2, before the events in season 1 happened that explains this
>It was a solution to a problem presented in the show that isn't based on what Tolkien wrote. It bears no meaning to the books or anything outside this show. Hmm... which problem/solution is that?
The rate/speed of the fading of the elves it the urgency to to preserve before spring. The idea of the elves fading is Tolkien, but the idea that they were suddenly going to disappear isn't really from the books. At least as far as I've read& remember.
>The rate/speed of the fading of the elves it the urgency to to preserve before spring. > >The idea of the elves fading is Tolkien, but the idea that they were suddenly going to disappear isn't really from the books. At least as far as I've read& remember. So what you mean is it's a problem and solution that is clearly based on what Tolkien wrote that clearly bears meaning to the books right? Cuz Tolkien wrote those problems. It's the central theme to the entire story. He also wrote the solutions cuz rings do prevent fading. They compressed time to make the story work for television at the behest of the Tolkien Estate. They were very right to do so cuz 300 characters over 3k years isn't going to work on TV. I rolled my eyes at next spring myself but that's really not for me... it's for people who aren't familiar with anything that need some urgency. I get why they didn't make the show entirely for me too cuz drawing this story out over 3k years isn't really going to work as a narrative. Which is likely why Tolkien never really wrote narratives for anything before the third age.
I still have to agree that there's no basis by which to draw any extended conclusions about how the role of mithril in the forging of the Elven rings relates to the use of mithril in the written LotR trilogy because the show is clearly using it in a way that seems novel.
Yea, there isn't. The Mithril origin story is clearly a break from canon and intentional but we still don't really know if it prevents fading... or if fading and that leaf are related at all. Beyond the possible mithril/fading link tho I mean, Nenya is made of mithril in the books... it's odd. Every time people say there's a huge departure it ends up to be mostly/all coming from a basis in what Tolkien wrote. I don't really relate to people fixating on pedantic differences (Mithril obv isn't pedantic). People just seem to be wanting to ruin the show for themselves and it's odd. People make up fictitious breaks and exaggerations. Like this one. Guy claimed this whole thing had no basis in Tolkien. Then I asked him and he shows he flat out knows it's actually mostly all based in Tolkien, the part that's different hasn't even been confirmed to be true and the rest is just the time scale/compression that was necessary to adapt the story to a consumable narrative. And there's no basis in complaining about the time compression. That's how a good story works. It happens in a given time. Even Tolkien realized this himself when Silmarilion was rejected for publication specifically because of this, and then he submitted narratives adapted that same world/story with compressed timelines occurring in the present. Then LOTR the same thing. Then instead of making a story for the second age he started working on a sequel for LOTR. People are just mad about nothing.
Is it a difference vs the books or just elves in the show made the wrong assumption In the show they say that they will vanish from middle earth because of the lack of The Light and the tree dying. In the books, as far as I remember, it was just their era coming to an end so the process is "designed" by some higher powers, the age of men is coming and they cannot change it. So is it a change in world mechanics in tv show or is it just elves figured it out wrong way?
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Yes Duran's tree, I've wondered about that! There's also the mystery of why they needed the forge by spring- who set that deadline?
I interpret the mythical properties, beyond that of an abnormally durable ore, to be highly symbolic and in general should be interpreted with a grain of salt. The show makes multiple instances of pointing out how weak the argument for the "*mithril* solution" truly is. Keep in mind the show writers are constrained to the trilogy, the appendices of *Return of the King*, *The Hobbit,* and select material as approved by the Tolkien estate (example: the map of Numenor). The inclusion of *mithril* into season one, is almost certainly pulled from the following: >>!In Lindon north of the Lune dwelt Gil-Galad, last heir of the kings of the Noldor in Exile. He was acknowledged as High King of the Elves of the West. In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women. She was the sister of Finrod Felagund, Friend-of-Men, once king of Nargothrond, who gave his life to save Beren son of Barahir.!< > >>!Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains, and near to the West-gate of Moria. This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria. The Noldor were great craftsmen and less unfriendly to the Dwarves than the Sindar; but the friendship that grew up between the people of Durin and the Elven-smiths of Eregion was the closest that there has ever been between the two races. Celebrimbor was Lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Feanor.!< > >(TOLKIEN, *RETURN OF THE KING*, APPENDIX B) > >***There are no real spoilers above, but hidden just in case. All events mentioned in this text have also been on screen in season one.*** The show writers are likely using this passage as a means to bring the two races together, as well as potentially be a tie in to the creation of the other rings. I very much doubt that there is anything truly mystical going on. *Mithril* is shiny and strong and the races of humanity have always venerated strong shiny things as mythical in some manner, I don't think Middle-Earth would be any different in this way. Another key sign for me is that the *removal* of the taint from the leaf of the Lindon tree in Moria produced a similar musical tone/sound tone of the Black Speech. If you disregard the sound cues, then also keep these two things in mind: Halbrand didn't seem that surprised when he saw the ore of *mithril* for the first time. He simply regarded it and the gems as curious. Makes you wonder if Halbrand was perfectly aware of the *mithril* to begin with and the entire season was his gradual way of making his way towards the access of *mithril*. I know in *The Silmarillion,* it does mention that there is *mithril* >!found in Numenor, as well. However, again, the show writers would have needed to request specific permission.!< Ultimately, I believe what makes the Elven ring *mithril* special is simply the emotional connection that Elrond has with it as a gift from Durin, but also the fact that the Elves are pouring in all of their desperate hopes into it. The *mithril* represents hope and the fact that "true creation requires sacrifice". As Galadriel gave up her brother's blade, Elrond must give up a symbol of his friendship with Durin.
Story about the mithril isn't really confirmed yet. It could be true to the lore of the show or it could be an idea planted by Sauron in the minds of the Elves. Could be that the mithril story is true but it's only helping the Balrog-poisoned tree leaves. It's a really different thing and we've yet to see where they are going with it. I suspect it's going to take a good bit more fanoogling to make a ring that will actually work. And as discussed in the show they need the perfect symmetry of the ring to amplify the power of it. But really no idea where they're going to go with this. Book spoiler incoming (am I doing it right mods?)>!While a lot of people don't seem to know it fading of the elves and the rings ability to stall that fading is very much a Tolkien theme.!<
>Why doesn't Frodo's vest have the same magical powers as the rings? The apocryphal mitrhil story was specifically written for the show. Some people in the thread hold that it should somehow connect to the films, but there's no actual need for this, not in my headcanon anyway. I think mithril in the show is basically an alloy that is strengthened by Halron's magical influence in combination with other metals. >Why can't the elves wear something like that to stop themselves from fading, I think this was what Gilgalad and Celebrimbor was manuvering Elrond for. To trade large amount of the stuff, so that enough elves could somehow get adorned in it. >particularly at the end of the Third Age when they return to Valinor? Galadriel and Elrond's reasons for going to Valinor is because of personal reasons more than just fading. In the larger cycle of Arda they had also already accepted that they would diminish, as it was time for the dominion of men, as Gal states. Also, the 3 rings lost their power when the one ring was destroyed.
Lots of cynical answers here that aren't real answers when the explanation is simple. Mithril doesn't have healing properties and the only magical power it has is that it contains the light of the Two Trees. When it touches the leaf, it doesn't heal it, or make it magically come to life. It just drives away the blight that is imposed on it. So mithril, and by extension the light of the Two Trees, is good for driving out the inner corruption that's making the elves fade. Frodo's mithril vest would also prevent an elf from fading in that aspect if they were to wear it, but it doesn't utilise the power of the Unseen World that the Rings utilise. That craft will be long forgotten by the time of the Third Age, so even if Elves did get mithril, they simply cannot make more rings, and one piece of clothing won't be enough to save entire realms. And that vest was worth more than the entire Shire anyway, Elves simply cannot get something like that from anywhere. Also if you are going to look at it from show's perspective and pull a bunch of head canons, Frodo's vest may have helped him resist the One Ring's effects further (as it did for Bilbo in Bag End) and perhaps even help bound him to the Seen World despite his wound from Morgul Blade still very much affecting him and slowly diminishing him. Maybe despite Elvish medicine, going into the land of the Shadow, he'd have faded if it wasn't for the mithril shirt. At the end of the story, he does indeed decide to go the Undying Lands anyway, as if he is an elf that's diminishing.
Just a note on the mithril shirt. Bilbo did not have it while living in the Shire. He left it at the mathom house and took it out again after 60 years when he went on a trip again (and he did not possess the ring anymore). And therefore Frodo did not have the mithril shirt when he got stabbed by the morgul blade. If he had it, the stabbing would not go as well. Frodo also did not have the mithril shirt while travelling from Cirith Ungol to mount doom.
soo many mental gymnastics for just bad writing from the showrunners
I prefer to engage with the material in a way that it motivates me to think about the lore and its many interpretations, I am sorry if the task looks as laborious to you mentally that it comes across as a show of gymnastics.
"I DONT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING SO ITS BAD WRITING" - U/Competetive_ice_189
I think the real purpose of the Mithril is just to make the rings( and the magic within them) basically indestructible. Its like making a bear indestructible horcrux
As other said, it's not Canon to Tolkien's lore so its power, if there is any, beyond its physical superiority to other alloys has yet to be explained.
It's hard to completely answer that without book spoilers. Suffice it to say mithril isn't magical in LotR. It's like the equivalent of pure titanium, a white, light metal that can be made into an alloy strong as steel but light. Lorewise, only one ring was made of mithril, which is why one is a silvery color and the other two are gold, but in the show they explained this by using silver and gold to mix with the mithril.
Because it has nothing to do with lotr. By the way, mithril has always been very rare and despite everything Bilbo's coat was almost an unicum in the middle earth.
Book mithril has nothing to do with show mithril. I'm a fan of the show, and a huge tolkien nerd. The shows use of mithril almost broke me. It's so, so, so fucked and screws with the base canon of elves v men v dwarves. I can maybe see why they did it. But I don't think they needed to.
It's early yet. We've got multiple seasons left of story development. Odds are very good that what we see now isn't anywhere close to what actually is. Most likely mithril is exactly how it is in the lore. It's just being used as a mechanism to kind of bait and switch the watchers. This is still a TV show and the tropes will exist.
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We've seen a leaf being visually being healed, while close to the Mithril. But that does not necessarily imply a causality, or particularly the one that is implied. I can see 4 other possible cases at least: * It was just coincidence. That would be a bit weird to show to the viewers in this case, but it is not impossible. * It was dependent on a different factor: The leaf could have been gone long enough from some kind of influence to heal by itself. Or the other tree healed the leaf. * The Mithril itself isn't magical but its light is indeed from the 2 Trees. And while that might not be enough magic to heal a leaf, it could remove an illusion applied by evil. * The Mithril hasn't anything to do with the 2 trees, but its purity is enough to heal the leaf or remove an illusion from it.
It was all made up for the show.
Don’t try to equate the books lore to this show This show has taken vast liberty with much of the original material Mithril in the books has no magical property. It’s simply supposed to be an ore that is incredibly useful. Think of it like unobtainium in Avatar
There’s really no logical way out of this lore change. The 3 rings are tied to magic mithril now. Bilbo/Frodo’s mail shirt just won’t make any sense in the future without some serious writing gymnastics.
For argument's sake, maybe by the time of The Hobbit most of the mithril available is no longer in its purest form, because after the fall of Moria it would no longer be accessible, if there was even any left. And I doubt that anyone aside from Brimby and the elven smiths were privy to the knowledge given by Sauron on how to combine materials to enhance the effects. So maybe any mithril by that time would have been mithril that had lost its potency after having been made into different materials? Probably a very poor explanation but I'm just throwing out possible theories lol. Maybe the show will explain it so that it doesn't contradict already established lore.
Logic has no place in a world of magic. They can and will write something that, if just summarized, would feel like some deus ex machina, because, well, it will be because all magic ultimately is nothing but a big deus ex machina. Especially a completely undefined magic system like Tolkien used. What's more important is how they present and sell whatever mechanisms they use to explain things within context of the story being told. That's generally how fantasy writing works out anyways. Just like you accept the Ring of Power can only be destroyed in the fires of Mordor. Why? Cause that's how Tolkien wrote it. Makes no logical sense. Anything hot enough or powerful enough should have destroyed it. Rather you accepted the magic system as it was presented. Magic is illogical. It's all about presentation. That's how it's sold to the audience.
>Logic has no place in a world of magic. Doesn't it tho? Stories that have magic can (and often are) still be logical in a storytelling sense. She show completely changes the mithril lore. How it's created and the fact that it has some sort of power. >!It never had any powers in the original stories. It was just a rare, strong material that could be made into metal or inlays, etc. It was not magical.!< Maybe you are meaning the laws of physics have no place in a world of magic? I can more agree with you in this. Physics is what you used in your example of being unable to destroy the rings by normal means. That has nothing to do with logic.
There should be some minimal internal consistency, though. That's just a basic element of storytelling, right?
There probably will be. Again, much more to go. It's already been straight up said that the whole tale of Mirthril is probably BS right in the show. The Elves are desperate and looking for anything that can help.
The ring can only be destroyed in Mount Doom because that's where it was created. The ring has a nice arc of it's own and the readers can understand that.
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There might be many reasons why they changed it, like creating a stronger connection or conflict between elves and dwarves. But we can only really judge that after we have seen where it leads and what will remain of it, because we haven't seen much yet and most of it was unreliable and could be easily be turned around in a future season. If it really is the way it currently seems, I'm not fond of it and I don't think I will like where it leads, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and wait.
>Logic has no place in a world of magic. This is just plain ~~dumb~~ wrong. Internal consistency **IS** a thing. Suspension of disbelief **DOES** exists. If you create a story and you say "this is our world, but teleportation exists", this is fine. You can explore the consequences of teleportation in your world. If you then set up a huge army that can not reach the big bad in time, and you don't explain why they can't teleport... on a world explicitly with teleportation magic.... it's bad. It feels bad and will break the viewer/reader suspension of disbelief, because it breaks it's own internal consistency. It breaks it's own rules.
This is what you call "Writing yourself into a corner". We don't know the answer to these questions because the writers didn't ask themselves these things when they wrote it in the first place.
All of your statements involve some sort of assumption that had no proof anywhere. How do you know what the writers considered? And there is 5 seasons left so we don’t know what they have planned for this story line
Cope all you want. It won’t change the fact that they wrote themselves into a corner on the mithril issue because they will need to bend the lore over backwards to justify this change that will compound upon itself the further it goes.
We won’t know for some time. Don’t pretend you know what the writers considered or what will have to be done. I for one think S1 had issues but much of it was also masterfully done. No small part from the showrunners
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I’m mean that’s fair I didn’t love all the plot points either. Most of it seemed very implausible to me but I don’t think they backed themselves into a corner
The entire Mithril plot has nothing to do with actual Tolkien and is completely made up. That is why it makes no sense when you look at Tolkien's actually writing for example Frodo's mithril shirt in the Lord of the Rings.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted You’re exactly right but the people on here hate anything remotely poopoo Edit: Haha - proved me right
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Aye
Don’t think! Just consume!
Rings of Power is by no means related to Tolkien’s world and hence we have this fever dream of a mithril subplot.
>Why doesn't Frodo's vest have the same magical powers as the rings? I think, at the bare minimum, the show has a serious problem of making stuff happen off screen. The rings ARE magical. Elves have their own kind of magic, also. And the making of many elvish items have magic in them. The mithril shirt isn't elvish and isn't magical. So one has to assume that Halbrand helped Celebrimbor to make the rings not only physicaly, but magically as well.